Ah, yes more games being banned from Linux because of anti cheat that doesn't even work. I wonder how long these companies will be able to keep up this grift of installing intrusive anti-cheat on the systems of their players instead of introducing actual server-side anticheat?
Hate to break it to you.. but apex already has SEVERAL systems in place serverside.. one being a highly touted "anybrain" ai anticheat. They do not work.
Valve had over THREE years now to come up with a solution for ant-cheat, which they didnt deliver. Without anticheat linux gaming will not get much bigger
@@2greenify tbf valve never seemed to care about cheaters....even with all of the hype it has been getting - deadlocked would probably still be a bot-filled mess that valve wouldn't try to fix because they don't receive revenue from their games as much as they used to, it'd be easier for them to make a good product without maintaining it that still gives them a small amount of money
@@Wkaelx I'm sure there's some fancy tricks you can do to make cheats work on linux and be harder to detect. But as long as cheating on windows exists (which it does), very few cheaters will actually install linux.
classic EA employees can't do their job correctly so they just decide to ban a whole platform all together making their job very easy. Massive skills issues
so recently all those multiplayer games have stopped working on Linux: Alot of EA games League of Legends GTA V And now even Apex Legends? damn, this has to stop.
Not gonna lie I also stopped playing months ago (tired of rollers too), but tbh I think this is more a PR move than anything else, I mean, even if all the 1.4% of all Linux players where cheating is still insignificant, but sure, banning them will look like they’re doing “something” about the cheating problem without actually doing anything
i dont thin 1% of cheaters would be insignificant, i mean, they play against of other people, i dont play apex, but lets say its a 4x4 players game, 1% of cheaters, would affecet up to 8% of the players per match. not to mention, windows has like 1.8 billions of users with 90% of marketshare, linux should have something like 20 millions of users, 20 million is more than the number of players most games have, so in that scenario you mentioned all linux users cheating would mean much more than 1% of the players.
@@igorgiuseppe1862apex legends only has around 2% of its players on linux, if all of those people are cheaters then it still doesnt compare to the amount cheating on windows, from what respawn has reported in the past about 10-14% of players cheat or have cheated so removing support for linux barely does anything and the issue will still be majorly there.
@@BenjaminHuarez its not about the number, but the growth, linux had 1% a few months ago, and grow 300%, if it keep growing like that, it would be an treat in no time.
more and more FPS games will continue to drop linux support, cuz they want their user base use windows 11 on their main machine, which is bad things, cant imagine playing games but your data are still silently sending to microsoft server
It makes sense for them to reinforce Windows monopoly, since than they don't have to spend as much effort and money supporting multiple platforms. Well, it makes sense for a greedy corporation like EA, anyway.
Use linux for normal everyday. Just install windows on separate drive, no email, no personal data. I don't care if microsoft my gaming data, good luck to them with that useless information. Relegate microsoft to be a gaming OS and not for serious security ladened projects.
I think Rockstar stepping down from supporting Linux has sent a signal to other Devs that they also dont need to bother. Linux is in a precarious position with only Valve really holding us up. Valve have a lot of clout but we are still a tiny minority. I guess this is what Nick was saying. While Linux gaming is still in a pretty good place it doesnt take much to swing things in the wrong direction. But hopefully Linux can still move forward in the end. We have to take the rough with the smooth.
its always funny how those companies thinks they games will be "cheaters free" because they locked Linux gamers out... like... do they even learn that thiss is not how you fight cheaters?
If we need to lock out operational systems because of cheating, then we better disable all multiplayer games on windows because the majority of the cheaters are normies without any tech literacy playing on windows.
So linux is too small of a user base to support, but a big enough user base of cheaters that it's causing issues? Seems like corporate double speak to me. Destiny 2 hasn't had linux support all this time and has had issues with cheating. Tarkov doesn't allow linux, packed to the gills with cheaters. It's all BS to make it look like they are doing something when honestly they just don't want to spend the money it takes to actually combat cheating. Removing users from a dying game won't pull it out of a tailspin. It's pouring water on a grease fire.
installing linux isnt that hard, the softwares that the cheaters are used to install can be much harder to install, so the issue is not the existing linux users; no game is perfect at fighting cheaters, nor want to be, its a eternal cat and mouse game.
yeah i agree this makes no sense i do just about everything on linux but split on the gaming side nut this makes me think if microsoft is writing checks to these companies because of all the push back on recall no proof if this but just a thought
First, to develop a cheat for a Proton game is super complicated, you have Wine, Vk3d3d(or Dxvk), Valve, you would need to hack the "hack". Hard to code software and low demand means that there are almost no one who develops this type of software and those who do sell them for high prices, it's much easier and safer to just cheat on Windows.
a lot of people cheat with hardware like if you look up DMA cheats you can see it. they just put something into their PCIE ports and that reads memory and its processed by a 2nd computer
I actually like kernel level anti cheat if it wasn't for the massive security issues associated with it, but if implemented properly it might be able to get the lead in the cheat vs anti cheat race.
@@igorgiuseppe1862playing apex, it actually felt fluid when playing on Linux compared to windows, and I don’t want to back to using windows just to play that game
@@js7arr Maybe you could get an additional storage device and install a bare-bones copy of Windows dedicated for games with kernel anti-cheat software. You shouldn't be installing games like that on your primary OS because they are essentially rootkits. Games like that should be segregated from your personal data anyways.
Maybe you could get an additional storage device and install a bare-bones copy of Windows dedicated for games with kernel anti-cheat software. You shouldn't be installing games like that on your primary OS because they are essentially rootkits. Games like that should be segregated from your personal data anyways. Get adhesive sticky paper and put a label on it.
@@Jaxon-c4k That's what I did for valorant. Nowadays I don't use this drug anymore, but is a good choice for those who still want or need to play/use software.
I don't think this move was fueled by corporate greed and laziness. I think it showcases an issue with Linux's more open architecture. Even though Easy Anti-Cheat *does* support Linux, its support is not very good, a little bit of research will tell you that. Even Epic Games (the creators of EAC) aren't confident enough in its Linux support to enable it for Fortnite. To significantly lower the attack surface of Linux would require limiting the control of the end user (probably through the use of a locked down kernel or kernel module), which directly conflicts with Linux's philosophy. Also, cheaters are *very* persistent. A lot of them are already using dedicated cheating hardware (DMA cards) to circumvent anti-cheats. Installing Linux is absolutely not beyond them and they will absolutely do it if the cheats become more prevalent.
The attack surface is just as big on windows because EAC is completely ineffective, just like any other kernel level anti cheat, linux is just being made into a scapegoat so they can pretend to combat the cheaters while not doing anything to solve the problem. This isn't going to stop, why do you think console players get an insane amount of aim "assist".
@@Loomeh it is corporate greed. Here's the thing about Linux. We have support for kernel modules. Specifically proprietary binary blobs via dkms. Aka meaning, that if they really wanted to. They could make a kernel level anti cheat just like windows. The reason they don't is, resources and culture. (And if you don't believe me. Dkms supports listing invidual kernel modules. Crowdstrike had it's own proprietary kernel module that works on Linux. If a dedicated monitoring and prevention tool works on linux. Anti cheat can too) Linux doesn't have a need to install kernel level crap often or at all. While windows it's a norm. For example on windows all the drivers you need to install to get the system up and running correctly. On linux, if it's hardware, someone has already taken the time to get into the kernel, so it should just work out of the box. 9/10 people avoid touching the kernel for the sake of stability. (Which is why linux doesn't crash particularly often. All the code that is put into the kernel is constantly under extreme scruity by torvald. He will boot you if you do not follow the correct procedures and guidelines.)
Windows could close down their kernel and sandbox everything.. the issue is that there is no way to secure linux to do the same thing as everything is entirely open source. That is the entire issue with linux as there is NO WAY to secure the kernel whatsoever.
@@pitchatan i agree, except with the term "secure", because that word imply in the mind of most people that its not an safe system to use (as if anyone could find an security hole and exploit it, that is not true, doing that is hard in any system), the problem is that linux is 100% customizable, we can change any line of code we want. so the correct term is, linux cant be... ok i dont remember the term now...
@@pitchatan This is a common misconception. Linux _can_ and _does_ have proprietary kernel modules you can install (most notably Nvidia drivers, Crowdstrike, etc.). You _can_ have kernel level AC in Linux, probably won't be as effective as a Windows one since the kernel itself is open, but it is possible.
@@AQDuck well to be honest your the one with the misconception here, and it's entirely my fault for not being clearer in what i am trying to say. I know very well there are proprietary modules, drivers etc. My entire point is that there are far too many ways of bypassing any efforts done within the context of "anticheats" as your essentially given free reign to do what you want in linux as a user/developer. The user is the "security risk" here as you essentially have to secure against someone actively and intentionally trying to install malicious software on their own system. It's for the same reason windows anticheat struggle as it allows for basically anyone to write a kernel level ring0 cheat driver. With the added problem of you being able to mess with the kernel source directly in linux without ever having to deal with modules/drivers to begin with.
@@igorgiuseppe1862 i am talking strictly within the perspective of cheating/anticheats. outside in linux is perfectly fine.. the issue is when the user of said operating system is actively and knowingly trying to compromise their own system. (regardless of it being windows or linux) By installing ring0 cheat drivers or in the case of linux just rewriting the kernel to do what they want.
I am not online gamer, but i'm worry. I already lost Battelfield1 and i'm worry about Battelfront2 and Jedi Fallen Order. 2 EA games i got on my Steam. Is there anythink we can do about it? Is there some hope?
Linux is the scapegoat. It is the easiest way of pushing an update and say that they're working on the cheating problem, until they realize that it is a much deeper problem.
Valve has to do something. There is no other way really, we can protest, but it's not gonna do anything, we are too small right now. At some point EAC will have to move to the kernel level on Linux to please the gaming companies... I have a pessimistic view on this.
It would be good if there was a custom patch available for the linux kernel to be moved into the kernel by the user's choice so others who don't want to have anything in common with this spyware crap would be free from this. That would also make us able to switch between kernels so that it is not spying on us when we don't want to play the game.
@@Ud4cznik the issue is that, not only we would need this patch, but the companies would need to confirm somehow that we are using this patch, not to mention linux is GPL so anyone would be able to see the patch code anyway
It doesn't matter if Linux antcheat is on the same level or even better than Windows, the average PC user has the vision that Linux is this hacker, terminal, sketchy system. A lot of people that don't know linux and play Apex are happy, they be like: "Finally EA is doing something" "Oh, this is great" "If it brings less cheaters its welcome". It doesn't matter if the data they're saying they have is true or false, players are mad about cheaters and this act is a placebo.
I am part of the people who DONT CARE about so-called "AAA" gaming. Its garbage. For me GTA5 still work in single player and that is all I care about, online was garbage. Apex legends, COD, etc are garbage too. Why are companies pushing the Anti-Cheat (Root Kits) so bad. Oh yeah so they can steal your data like MS is doing. Those Kernel Level Anti-Cheats have 100% access to both your hardware and software. The easiest way for this to stop is for hackers to target the Anti-cheat software and do damage to people's machines, data loss, BIOS flashing, data stealing and the companies get sued. You would think that after the snafu with CroudStrike companies would learn that Kernel level access is really bad, but I guess they need a bigger lesson. I play 99.9% Indie games anyways so I am not really caring. Most of those devs are passionate about their games and put their heart and soul into them. Again, the companies are LAZY and all they really have to do is fix match making to where if you dont want to play with someone you block them, then you are not allowed to play in a match with them in it. Simple and doesnt effect the game at all. LET THE USERS decide who they want to play with instead of trying to be the police of everyone. Just like on X, Telegram, UA-cam, etc, block the user and dont see anything from them anymore. Easy fix, but then it doesnt give them a backdoor into your system.
I'd say "competitive gaming" is the source of cheating and related problems. counter-strike is a big example. on public servers where people just have fun, there is no reason for cheating, and if there is any loser with cheats shows up, he gets instantly kicked by both teams voting, because nobody has anything to lose, rank score won't decrease and so on. but on official servers, people don't kick cheaters easily even in casual mode, because cheater in game give advantage to the whole team, be it rank score going up, or just more xp towards weekly drop for every round won.
Bonjour, je suis passé sur Linux depuis des années dans un premier temps, pour tout sauf jouer. Ensuite, depuis 2 ans, je suis à 100 % sur Linux. Mes derniers essais en FPS et autres sont une catastrophe : Deadside, Battlefield V, ... : impossible à cause de l'anticheat. C'est dommage, mais aussi un mauvais signe pour les gamers sous Linux. Je n'ai pas envie de quitter Linux : que faire ? Dual boot avec Windows pour certains jeux ? J'espère que les dispositifs portables comme steam deck et consort vont appuyer sur la place de Linux dans le Gaming, sans oublier les nouvelles distributions comme Cachy OS et Pika OS.
The solution is having a company make a "trusted" and signed kernel that cannot be manipulated and can only be used for gaming. At least thats how i see jt
The issue is that this will turn GNU/Linux into Android, in the sense that it will allow software vendors to control which distros their software can or cannot run on. Do you use Debian and can't run this social media app because it's only signed for Ubuntu? You won't be able to, and so on, because that will go far beyond the distros inherent differences such as the package manager, init or even libraries versions. This would also allow any company to create an equivalent to GMS in GNU/Linux to generate vendor lock-in, which would be a devastating precedent not only for Linux, but for desktop operating systems in general.
Gaming companies may eventually realize that offering cheat-free servers through server-side anti-cheat technology could be a lucrative business model, potentially generating significant revenue through optional monthly subscriptions. Until then, they ride the hate-train ;)
regarding "competitive gaming", there is no competitive gaming until you participate on LAN tournaments, really. attaching a number to match results doesn't make it competitive
Fair point, but you could have competitive game with different format of tournaments (LAN vs Online for example). And some other games are designed to be competitive and stay a long time without LAN tournaments (ie battle royale genre which takes some time to take of from a professional / LAN standpoint).
Je suis passé sous linux avec ma 5700 XT (qui vas bientôt dégager pour une 7800 XT sapphire pulse pendant le black friday) et franchement, c'est clairement mieux, moins de crash, expérience plus fluide. Déjà que les les cheater c'est dégoutant (de bon gros cafard la), mais alors que le support linux soit dégagé sur certains jeux à cause d'anti-cheat trop intrusif, sa dégoûte encore plus... (en plus sa fonctionne jamais à 100% et la pluspart du temps ont est plus proche du 0% d'ailleur, un éternel jeux du chat et de la souris...). Je joue rarement à Apex ces dernier temps et cette annonce donne pas envie de revenir, pourtant c'est un jeux que j'appréciai beaucoup (celui ou j'ai le plus d'heures) et que dont j'ai commencé il a 5 ans, le jour ou il a pop de nul part, personne l'attendais et même s'il avait des défauts, le gunplay que nous à offert respawn (meme si ont aurait préféré un Titanfall 3 hein) était vraiment génial.
I have over 1.1k hours in the game and I have not felt all this cheat problem maybe sometimes I die for cheaters but I never feel like they were cheating, maybe they are just bad anyway. Now I will forever be unable to play, well If they do not want me playing then I don't play. It is a shame because there are almost no FPS competitive games that work on linux due to anti cheats, CS2 works but it is all fucked up, I feel like I lose all my aim playing that because I can't aim on target I got to predict server position it sucks
Oh damn... This is a weak point for me. I play this game daily since it's release day first on Windows, and now on Linux. That hurts :I What to do next A1RM4X? Making a windows partition is considerable? I think yes...
@MyouKyuubi Naaah, it wont work. I tried it already. Apex is just my cup of tea. I love the gameplay since it's release. I guess I'll stay Apex-Junkie :D
nothing of value has been lost this game has been going downhill for a long time and they're desperate hopefully this is the final nail in the coffin and they go under completely
It's not necessarily the game itself that's the issue, but the precedence it sets. We lost GTA V, LoL, Apex Legends, and tons of other games that USED to work, but now have been patched to not function under Linux/Steam Deck. We have no right to refunds, and these companies can just retroactively patch games to artificially remove them from our platform. Valve cannot guarantee the long-term functioning of our games, and that makes the public loose trust in Steam Deck and Valve.
I am waiting for the kernel level anticheat to screw people over weakening their systems against cyber attack. Nothing should have kernel level access, especially gaming. The client side anticheats don't work indefinitely as they can be hacked, a better solution would go back to server side cheat detection, AI now being the method of detection. It would be better and solve all the security risk and compatibility problems.
First of all the Linux users are a very small percentage of the playerbase, therefore to develop a cheat to Linux will sell much less than on Windows and as there will be less cheats on Linux is much easier to flag software and the fact that all these other titles mentioned in the video have serious cheaters problems while they are being played on Windows, so you have plenty of cheat developers for Windows but not for Linux, furthermore even if you use Windows you can hardware spoof if you really want to cheat, it seems like they are going to implement kernel level anti-cheat just like in Valorant, so it seems like they don't want to put effort into implementing the kernel level anti-cheat on Linux. Worse part of all this is that Apex has been extra glitchy lately and I was really looking into getting into Linux to see if it solves my problem and it seems like the same thing is happening even in top spec builds from other Apex players... Not even to mention the fact that all these other titles mentioned in the video have serious cheaters problems while they are being played on Windows,
Tim Sweeney, the man that compared switching to linux with moving to canada. He basically said Linux user are running away instead of fighting for their freedom. On the other hand he tries to penetrate the marked and actively damage Valve using Chinese money (Tencent owns ~35% of Epic Games). What a f****** ****.
heres my guess: Linux apex legends player have been getting banned for a while now with denied appeals. I think theyre counting legitimate players as cheaters, which makes them think theyre some kind of majority.
Maybe 2024 it's not the year of Linux Gaming after all... But yea it's not a good news for Valve, how are you going to launch a new console and tell people that the main online games don't work and that any online game can stop working at any time? Valve should have a serious conversation with these companies that decide to publish on Steam.
Well stop being a bandwagon-junkie, then... Find alternatives, like "The Finals" for example, and play that instead... being too obsessed with any particular game is bad for gaming.
@@MyouKyuubi Accept the truth, it's easy for you to talk about an alternative when it's probably not a game you dedicated time and money to. Your argument is stupid and worthless. Games are not the same thing as an alternative to Photoshop or Office.
You know, spoofing Linux to allow cheats to function on windows, is unironically, a service skill issue. World of Warcraft and Overwatch, have user-level anticheat (Warden), because the brunt of the anticheat system is handled server-side (Warden only supplements the process, it's not the core of the process)... And that's why we don't see as many cheaters on those games. The only reason this Linux spoofing even works, is because they have ZERO server-side anticheat going, they rely TOO MUCH on client-side anticheat... So this is literally just a skill issue on the developer's end, and laziness too, i guess. Also Counter Strike and Team Fortress 2 now have, i think "VAC 2" or something? And that seems to be working pretty alright too for Linux. :P
The thing about overwatch specifically is that it has handled rage hackers pretty well and have them banned fairly quickly (it's an easy thing to do by statistics and reports alone). However the cheat community itself adapted and focus more on "closet cheating" in the form of wallhacks/esp and more commonly triggerbots and overly smoothed humanized aimbot. It's also pretty useless against silent aim as looking at it by a tick by tick basis is infeasible considering the cost of A.I currently. If you are anywhere near a "above average" level (platinum/diamond+ if you want a rank to base off of) you are going to find A TON of people with their steam account connected that have one or several recent vac bans... i have seen the same damn people in my matches that you don't really see are cheating until you run the replay at extremely slow speeds (a lot of which run widowmaker), that indeed have vac bans to boot, that are STILL playing close to 2 years later.
Well, cheating of any kind in a casual-competitive sense is a problem. In linux case it's what its being used FOR, the majority of the cheat userbase will not be on linux but the ones trying to "stay under the radar" or trying to be extremely cheap are going to be jumping on linux. You can directly compare this with AimTux for CSGO ( an open source aimbot, that later got esp/wh) that started to see a larger and larger adoption that coincided with the linux userbase growing larger by the day. They eventually got a cease and desist (when it comes to further development) , as well as a targeted detection. It's now defunct and other cheats have taken it's place in the linux space, some being forks off AimTux. And from what i remember the userbase of AimTux was around 10-15% of linux players. Apex has the added pro of being a bit harder to developer for from a kernel standpoint (taking the wine translation layer into consideration).. with that being said there are more than a couple of linux native cheats available that have gone completely undetected for years now (eac is entirely toothless against them as it is entirely countered by user permissions and the linux kernel being off limits... at the same time there is nothing stopping cheat devs creating a EAC shunt to fool it into thinking it has privileges.. meaning you feed EAC whatever you want). You also have the issue of being able to run native software DMA in linux, it was even an issue when it came to VM's as QEMU etc supports external software DMA as well as compositing. (i.e you run DMA on your host machine for aimbot, locations etc, it then grabs the framebuffer and overlays a esp separately.. meaning you could stream and cheat your ass off in tournaments much like with hardware DMA... i know of a GROUP of players personally that have done this in ALGS qualifiers). Saying the issue is "theoretical" is nothing short of ignorant.
@@pitchatan Actually in this same video there is a self-confessed Windows cheater who claimed to have spoofed his TPM key and thanks to that he cannot be detected by Vanguard or any other kernel-leve anticheat, and he also said that doing that on Linux would be harder. KVM is a type-1 hypervisor, so you can do PCI passthrough of any component, it's theoretically possible to do the same on Windows with Hyper-V (at least on Windows Server) it's not a Linux issue per se, and it's a feature that has perfectly legitimate uses.
It's sad, of course. But to be honest, I understand the concerns of competitive game developers. Over time, there are more and more cheaters. People don't know how to play, don't want to get better at a particular game, and just buy software. The problem is not with the developers, the problem is with the people. As always.
First they came for Battlefield, and I did not speak out-because I was not a Battlefield player. Then they came for League of Legends, and I did not speak out-because I was not a League of Legends player. Then they came for GTA V, and I did not speak out-because I was not a GTA V player. Then they came for my Apex Legends -and there was no one left to speak for me
Ah, yes more games being banned from Linux because of anti cheat that doesn't even work. I wonder how long these companies will be able to keep up this grift of installing intrusive anti-cheat on the systems of their players instead of introducing actual server-side anticheat?
servers and admins worked great for decades
@@BenFoster-cx4emAnd can take action on the spot, insted of doing it in waves
Hate to break it to you.. but apex already has SEVERAL systems in place serverside.. one being a highly touted "anybrain" ai anticheat.
They do not work.
Valve had over THREE years now to come up with a solution for ant-cheat, which they didnt deliver.
Without anticheat linux gaming will not get much bigger
@@2greenify tbf valve never seemed to care about cheaters....even with all of the hype it has been getting - deadlocked would probably still be a bot-filled mess that valve wouldn't try to fix because they don't receive revenue from their games as much as they used to, it'd be easier for them to make a good product without maintaining it that still gives them a small amount of money
Most cheaters aren't intelligent enough to install linux let's be real here
Yes, but I've heard about Windows maskis as Linux, don't know how that works but seems really fancy, still must be really easy to detect.
@@Wkaelx I'm sure there's some fancy tricks you can do to make cheats work on linux and be harder to detect. But as long as cheating on windows exists (which it does), very few cheaters will actually install linux.
classic EA employees can't do their job correctly so they just decide to ban a whole platform all together making their job very easy. Massive skills issues
its a shame but im sure with steam working towards linux gaming they will be back, great video papa
so recently all those multiplayer games have stopped working on Linux:
Alot of EA games
League of Legends
GTA V
And now even Apex Legends? damn, this has to stop.
We need something or this might be the start of the end...
Not gonna lie I also stopped playing months ago (tired of rollers too), but tbh I think this is more a PR move than anything else, I mean, even if all the 1.4% of all Linux players where cheating is still insignificant, but sure, banning them will look like they’re doing “something” about the cheating problem without actually doing anything
i dont thin 1% of cheaters would be insignificant, i mean, they play against of other people, i dont play apex, but lets say its a 4x4 players game, 1% of cheaters, would affecet up to 8% of the players per match.
not to mention, windows has like 1.8 billions of users with 90% of marketshare, linux should have something like 20 millions of users, 20 million is more than the number of players most games have, so in that scenario you mentioned all linux users cheating would mean much more than 1% of the players.
@@igorgiuseppe1862apex legends only has around 2% of its players on linux, if all of those people are cheaters then it still doesnt compare to the amount cheating on windows, from what respawn has reported in the past about 10-14% of players cheat or have cheated so removing support for linux barely does anything and the issue will still be majorly there.
Could be microsoft lobbying behind closed doors.
This is what i was thinking ... it seems that something is going on behind the scenes ... this is the third game, i think, in a short amount of time
nah, like they need the 3% of linux desktops
@@BenjaminHuarez Microsoft wants everything, of course they want 3% of desktop users.
do you think that an company who have trillions of dollars in cash have enough money to deffend their monopoly like that? lets be real.
@@BenjaminHuarez its not about the number, but the growth, linux had 1% a few months ago, and grow 300%, if it keep growing like that, it would be an treat in no time.
more and more FPS games will continue to drop linux support, cuz they want their user base use windows 11 on their main machine, which is bad things, cant imagine playing games but your data are still silently sending to microsoft server
It makes sense for them to reinforce Windows monopoly, since than they don't have to spend as much effort and money supporting multiple platforms.
Well, it makes sense for a greedy corporation like EA, anyway.
@@MoogMuskie except that valve already did this for then for free
Use linux for normal everyday. Just install windows on separate drive, no email, no personal data. I don't care if microsoft my gaming data, good luck to them with that useless information. Relegate microsoft to be a gaming OS and not for serious security ladened projects.
I was waiting for your video
I think Rockstar stepping down from supporting Linux has sent a signal to other Devs that they also dont need to bother. Linux is in a precarious position with only Valve really holding us up. Valve have a lot of clout but we are still a tiny minority. I guess this is what Nick was saying. While Linux gaming is still in a pretty good place it doesnt take much to swing things in the wrong direction. But hopefully Linux can still move forward in the end. We have to take the rough with the smooth.
its always funny how those companies thinks they games will be "cheaters free" because they locked Linux gamers out...
like... do they even learn that thiss is not how you fight cheaters?
PR
_"companies thinks they games"_
Bra not trying to be a grammar Nazi but did you even graduate from high school ?
like you said i am really hoping valve is working on a revolutionary anti-cheat VAC 2.0
Servers: Linux
Gaming: Windows or Consoles
Hipsters: Mac
Students: ChromeOS (a Linux)
70% of phones: Android(Linux)
If we need to lock out operational systems because of cheating, then we better disable all multiplayer games on windows because the majority of the cheaters are normies without any tech literacy playing on windows.
So linux is too small of a user base to support, but a big enough user base of cheaters that it's causing issues? Seems like corporate double speak to me. Destiny 2 hasn't had linux support all this time and has had issues with cheating. Tarkov doesn't allow linux, packed to the gills with cheaters. It's all BS to make it look like they are doing something when honestly they just don't want to spend the money it takes to actually combat cheating. Removing users from a dying game won't pull it out of a tailspin. It's pouring water on a grease fire.
installing linux isnt that hard, the softwares that the cheaters are used to install can be much harder to install, so the issue is not the existing linux users;
no game is perfect at fighting cheaters, nor want to be, its a eternal cat and mouse game.
yeah i agree this makes no sense i do just about everything on linux but split on the gaming side nut this makes me think if microsoft is writing checks to these companies because of all the push back on recall no proof if this but just a thought
First, to develop a cheat for a Proton game is super complicated, you have Wine, Vk3d3d(or Dxvk), Valve, you would need to hack the "hack".
Hard to code software and low demand means that there are almost no one who develops this type of software and those who do sell them for high prices, it's much easier and safer to just cheat on Windows.
a lot of people cheat with hardware like if you look up DMA cheats you can see it. they just put something into their PCIE ports and that reads memory and its processed by a 2nd computer
Oh no, this is why no one uses Linux. We must save Linux gaming; it’s dying, man! We’re doomed if we don’t act! (Just kidding)
btw i use arch linux
i never play apex legendo
@@GnuChanOS it's really popular though, losing it sucks in general.
@@ducky1681 ok
"btw i use arch linux"
Another law-abiding citizen following the law! Good to see! :3
I actually like kernel level anti cheat if it wasn't for the massive security issues associated with it, but if implemented properly it might be able to get the lead in the cheat vs anti cheat race.
actl got on linux full time because of your video just to play apex legends and now this happens :(
Preferred playing Apex on linux, guess I’m done now
done playing apex or using linux?
@@igorgiuseppe1862playing apex, it actually felt fluid when playing on Linux compared to windows, and I don’t want to back to using windows just to play that game
@@js7arr Maybe you could get an additional storage device and install a bare-bones copy of Windows dedicated for games with kernel anti-cheat software. You shouldn't be installing games like that on your primary OS because they are essentially rootkits. Games like that should be segregated from your personal data anyways.
@@Jaxon-c4k what you creeps hiding in your data, so you are all so obsessed in hiding it? Calm down, paranoic.
Not switching back to windows just for a game
Maybe you could get an additional storage device and install a bare-bones copy of Windows dedicated for games with kernel anti-cheat software. You shouldn't be installing games like that on your primary OS because they are essentially rootkits. Games like that should be segregated from your personal data anyways.
Get adhesive sticky paper and put a label on it.
@@Jaxon-c4k That's what I did for valorant. Nowadays I don't use this drug anymore, but is a good choice for those who still want or need to play/use software.
Nick out there be like "what did I tell you" 😈
A1RM4X checking out Banana is the funniest thing i have heard all day
I don't think this move was fueled by corporate greed and laziness. I think it showcases an issue with Linux's more open architecture. Even though Easy Anti-Cheat *does* support Linux, its support is not very good, a little bit of research will tell you that. Even Epic Games (the creators of EAC) aren't confident enough in its Linux support to enable it for Fortnite. To significantly lower the attack surface of Linux would require limiting the control of the end user (probably through the use of a locked down kernel or kernel module), which directly conflicts with Linux's philosophy. Also, cheaters are *very* persistent. A lot of them are already using dedicated cheating hardware (DMA cards) to circumvent anti-cheats. Installing Linux is absolutely not beyond them and they will absolutely do it if the cheats become more prevalent.
The attack surface is just as big on windows because EAC is completely ineffective, just like any other kernel level anti cheat, linux is just being made into a scapegoat so they can pretend to combat the cheaters while not doing anything to solve the problem. This isn't going to stop, why do you think console players get an insane amount of aim "assist".
@@Loomeh it is corporate greed.
Here's the thing about Linux. We have support for kernel modules. Specifically proprietary binary blobs via dkms. Aka meaning, that if they really wanted to. They could make a kernel level anti cheat just like windows.
The reason they don't is, resources and culture. (And if you don't believe me. Dkms supports listing invidual kernel modules. Crowdstrike had it's own proprietary kernel module that works on Linux. If a dedicated monitoring and prevention tool works on linux. Anti cheat can too)
Linux doesn't have a need to install kernel level crap often or at all. While windows it's a norm. For example on windows all the drivers you need to install to get the system up and running correctly. On linux, if it's hardware, someone has already taken the time to get into the kernel, so it should just work out of the box. 9/10 people avoid touching the kernel for the sake of stability. (Which is why linux doesn't crash particularly often. All the code that is put into the kernel is constantly under extreme scruity by torvald. He will boot you if you do not follow the correct procedures and guidelines.)
Windows allowing Kernel LvL is sucking the life out of Linux Gaming till Windows drops the ball otherwise more Kernel LvL adaption will continue.
Windows could close down their kernel and sandbox everything.. the issue is that there is no way to secure linux to do the same thing as everything is entirely open source.
That is the entire issue with linux as there is NO WAY to secure the kernel whatsoever.
@@pitchatan i agree, except with the term "secure", because that word imply in the mind of most people that its not an safe system to use (as if anyone could find an security hole and exploit it, that is not true, doing that is hard in any system), the problem is that linux is 100% customizable, we can change any line of code we want.
so the correct term is, linux cant be... ok i dont remember the term now...
@@pitchatan This is a common misconception.
Linux _can_ and _does_ have proprietary kernel modules you can install (most notably Nvidia drivers, Crowdstrike, etc.).
You _can_ have kernel level AC in Linux, probably won't be as effective as a Windows one since the kernel itself is open, but it is possible.
@@AQDuck well to be honest your the one with the misconception here, and it's entirely my fault for not being clearer in what i am trying to say.
I know very well there are proprietary modules, drivers etc.
My entire point is that there are far too many ways of bypassing any efforts done within the context of "anticheats" as your essentially given free reign to do what you want in linux as a user/developer.
The user is the "security risk" here as you essentially have to secure against someone actively and intentionally trying to install malicious software on their own system.
It's for the same reason windows anticheat struggle as it allows for basically anyone to write a kernel level ring0 cheat driver.
With the added problem of you being able
to mess with the kernel source directly in linux without ever having to deal with modules/drivers to begin with.
@@igorgiuseppe1862 i am talking strictly within the perspective of cheating/anticheats.
outside in linux is perfectly fine.. the issue is when the user of said operating system is actively and knowingly trying to compromise their own system. (regardless of it being windows or linux)
By installing ring0 cheat drivers or in the case of linux just rewriting the kernel to do what they want.
I am not online gamer, but i'm worry. I already lost Battelfield1 and i'm worry about Battelfront2 and Jedi Fallen Order. 2 EA games i got on my Steam. Is there anythink we can do about it? Is there some hope?
I wonder what all of the companies will do when cheating still persists
drop windows support and make you use their own console-like locked down operating system, that's where it's going at least
Linux is the scapegoat. It is the easiest way of pushing an update and say that they're working on the cheating problem, until they realize that it is a much deeper problem.
Maybe they will move to cloud-gaming "solutions".
Valve has to do something. There is no other way really, we can protest, but it's not gonna do anything, we are too small right now. At some point EAC will have to move to the kernel level on Linux to please the gaming companies... I have a pessimistic view on this.
It would be good if there was a custom patch available for the linux kernel to be moved into the kernel by the user's choice so others who don't want to have anything in common with this spyware crap would be free from this. That would also make us able to switch between kernels so that it is not spying on us when we don't want to play the game.
@@Ud4cznik Yeah, I bet Torvalds wouldn't allow spyware straight into the mainstream kernel lol
@@Ud4cznik the issue is that, not only we would need this patch, but the companies would need to confirm somehow that we are using this patch, not to mention linux is GPL so anyone would be able to see the patch code anyway
It doesn't matter if Linux antcheat is on the same level or even better than Windows, the average PC user has the vision that Linux is this hacker, terminal, sketchy system.
A lot of people that don't know linux and play Apex are happy, they be like: "Finally EA is doing something" "Oh, this is great" "If it brings less cheaters its welcome".
It doesn't matter if the data they're saying they have is true or false, players are mad about cheaters and this act is a placebo.
I think with Steam we will slowly break out of this.
And I ignore the games that do not support it.
Local Anticheat can always be circumvented.
I tried Paladins (which probably would run better on cachyOS than Windows) and the Mojo`s anticheat just ruins everything. A shame
I am part of the people who DONT CARE about so-called "AAA" gaming. Its garbage. For me GTA5 still work in single player and that is all I care about, online was garbage. Apex legends, COD, etc are garbage too. Why are companies pushing the Anti-Cheat (Root Kits) so bad. Oh yeah so they can steal your data like MS is doing. Those Kernel Level Anti-Cheats have 100% access to both your hardware and software. The easiest way for this to stop is for hackers to target the Anti-cheat software and do damage to people's machines, data loss, BIOS flashing, data stealing and the companies get sued. You would think that after the snafu with CroudStrike companies would learn that Kernel level access is really bad, but I guess they need a bigger lesson.
I play 99.9% Indie games anyways so I am not really caring. Most of those devs are passionate about their games and put their heart and soul into them.
Again, the companies are LAZY and all they really have to do is fix match making to where if you dont want to play with someone you block them, then you are not allowed to play in a match with them in it. Simple and doesnt effect the game at all. LET THE USERS decide who they want to play with instead of trying to be the police of everyone. Just like on X, Telegram, UA-cam, etc, block the user and dont see anything from them anymore. Easy fix, but then it doesnt give them a backdoor into your system.
I'd say "competitive gaming" is the source of cheating and related problems. counter-strike is a big example. on public servers where people just have fun, there is no reason for cheating, and if there is any loser with cheats shows up, he gets instantly kicked by both teams voting, because nobody has anything to lose, rank score won't decrease and so on. but on official servers, people don't kick cheaters easily even in casual mode, because cheater in game give advantage to the whole team, be it rank score going up, or just more xp towards weekly drop for every round won.
Bonjour, je suis passé sur Linux depuis des années dans un premier temps, pour tout sauf jouer. Ensuite, depuis 2 ans, je suis à 100 % sur Linux. Mes derniers essais en FPS et autres sont une catastrophe : Deadside, Battlefield V, ... : impossible à cause de l'anticheat. C'est dommage, mais aussi un mauvais signe pour les gamers sous Linux. Je n'ai pas envie de quitter Linux : que faire ? Dual boot avec Windows pour certains jeux ? J'espère que les dispositifs portables comme steam deck et consort vont appuyer sur la place de Linux dans le Gaming, sans oublier les nouvelles distributions comme Cachy OS et Pika OS.
The solution is having a company make a "trusted" and signed kernel that cannot be manipulated and can only be used for gaming. At least thats how i see jt
@AndRei-yc3ti Yup, seems like this is the direction Steam Deck should head.
In Steam deck they use an immutable version of Arch linux. Its not possible to manipulate the kernel on that setup.
The issue is that this will turn GNU/Linux into Android, in the sense that it will allow software vendors to control which distros their software can or cannot run on.
Do you use Debian and can't run this social media app because it's only signed for Ubuntu? You won't be able to, and so on, because that will go far beyond the distros inherent differences such as the package manager, init or even libraries versions.
This would also allow any company to create an equivalent to GMS in GNU/Linux to generate vendor lock-in, which would be a devastating precedent not only for Linux, but for desktop operating systems in general.
Or the other solution: for 1% nerds to give up on their "secure" half-baked OS and install real operation system (Windows)
@@Kerojey Windows is not a "real" OS, it's a adware environment .lol
Gaming companies may eventually realize that offering cheat-free servers through server-side anti-cheat technology could be a lucrative business model, potentially generating significant revenue through optional monthly subscriptions.
Until then, they ride the hate-train ;)
regarding "competitive gaming", there is no competitive gaming until you participate on LAN tournaments, really. attaching a number to match results doesn't make it competitive
Fair point, but you could have competitive game with different format of tournaments (LAN vs Online for example). And some other games are designed to be competitive and stay a long time without LAN tournaments (ie battle royale genre which takes some time to take of from a professional / LAN standpoint).
Gabe damnit
Je suis passé sous linux avec ma 5700 XT (qui vas bientôt dégager pour une 7800 XT sapphire pulse pendant le black friday) et franchement, c'est clairement mieux, moins de crash, expérience plus fluide. Déjà que les les cheater c'est dégoutant (de bon gros cafard la), mais alors que le support linux soit dégagé sur certains jeux à cause d'anti-cheat trop intrusif, sa dégoûte encore plus... (en plus sa fonctionne jamais à 100% et la pluspart du temps ont est plus proche du 0% d'ailleur, un éternel jeux du chat et de la souris...).
Je joue rarement à Apex ces dernier temps et cette annonce donne pas envie de revenir, pourtant c'est un jeux que j'appréciai beaucoup (celui ou j'ai le plus d'heures) et que dont j'ai commencé il a 5 ans, le jour ou il a pop de nul part, personne l'attendais et même s'il avait des défauts, le gunplay que nous à offert respawn (meme si ont aurait préféré un Titanfall 3 hein) était vraiment génial.
I have over 1.1k hours in the game and I have not felt all this cheat problem maybe sometimes I die for cheaters but I never feel like they were cheating, maybe they are just bad anyway. Now I will forever be unable to play, well If they do not want me playing then I don't play. It is a shame because there are almost no FPS competitive games that work on linux due to anti cheats, CS2 works but it is all fucked up, I feel like I lose all my aim playing that because I can't aim on target I got to predict server position it sucks
I love playing blood strike on linux ❤❤
Oh damn... This is a weak point for me. I play this game daily since it's release day first on Windows, and now on Linux. That hurts :I
What to do next A1RM4X? Making a windows partition is considerable? I think yes...
No, play "The Finals" instead... It can scratch your Apex itch, and move you away from being an Apex-junkie. :P
@MyouKyuubi Naaah, it wont work. I tried it already. Apex is just my cup of tea. I love the gameplay since it's release. I guess I'll stay Apex-Junkie :D
@@Ud4cznik Yikes, lol
nothing of value has been lost
this game has been going downhill for a long time and they're desperate
hopefully this is the final nail in the coffin and they go under completely
It's not necessarily the game itself that's the issue, but the precedence it sets. We lost GTA V, LoL, Apex Legends, and tons of other games that USED to work, but now have been patched to not function under Linux/Steam Deck. We have no right to refunds, and these companies can just retroactively patch games to artificially remove them from our platform. Valve cannot guarantee the long-term functioning of our games, and that makes the public loose trust in Steam Deck and Valve.
I am waiting for the kernel level anticheat to screw people over weakening their systems against cyber attack. Nothing should have kernel level access, especially gaming. The client side anticheats don't work indefinitely as they can be hacked, a better solution would go back to server side cheat detection, AI now being the method of detection. It would be better and solve all the security risk and compatibility problems.
This is fucked up....
companies dont rely on client side anti cheat, they use both server side and client side.
honestly its aight used to take me like an hour to get into a match anyways plus theres always farlight 84😊
First of all the Linux users are a very small percentage of the playerbase, therefore to develop a cheat to Linux will sell much less than on Windows and as there will be less cheats on Linux is much easier to flag software and the fact that all these other titles mentioned in the video have serious cheaters problems while they are being played on Windows, so you have plenty of cheat developers for Windows but not for Linux, furthermore even if you use Windows you can hardware spoof if you really want to cheat, it seems like they are going to implement kernel level anti-cheat just like in Valorant, so it seems like they don't want to put effort into implementing the kernel level anti-cheat on Linux.
Worse part of all this is that Apex has been extra glitchy lately and I was really looking into getting into Linux to see if it solves my problem and it seems like the same thing is happening even in top spec builds from other Apex players... Not even to mention the fact that all these other titles mentioned in the video have serious cheaters problems while they are being played on Windows,
Volvo pls fix
You seem to be the only UA-camr who doesn't have a brain-dead take on this news.
Tim Sweeney, the man that compared switching to linux with moving to canada. He basically said Linux user are running away instead of fighting for their freedom. On the other hand he tries to penetrate the marked and actively damage Valve using Chinese money (Tencent owns ~35% of Epic Games). What a f****** ****.
heres my guess:
Linux apex legends player have been getting banned for a while now with denied appeals. I think theyre counting legitimate players as cheaters, which makes them think theyre some kind of majority.
linux rip for me . Thx to Apex and thx to Linus
Hey, at least I don't have to boycott them now. They did it for me.
Maybe 2024 it's not the year of Linux Gaming after all... But yea it's not a good news for Valve, how are you going to launch a new console and tell people that the main online games don't work and that any online game can stop working at any time? Valve should have a serious conversation with these companies that decide to publish on Steam.
Well stop being a bandwagon-junkie, then... Find alternatives, like "The Finals" for example, and play that instead... being too obsessed with any particular game is bad for gaming.
@@MyouKyuubi Accept the truth, it's easy for you to talk about an alternative when it's probably not a game you dedicated time and money to. Your argument is stupid and worthless.
Games are not the same thing as an alternative to Photoshop or Office.
Bye bye apex and the lovely company behind it
😢 Apex
Apex is kinda dead, but this sucks no matter what game we are taking about
I hope they don't do the same for Titanfall 2? 🤞
they dont gaf about titanfall 2 dw lol
so people running wine so they can run cheats on linux? Man those cheater have some dedication.
I hope, all these greedy, selfish, stagnant companies get sued one day for their effort to monopoly Windows. 🙃
Can't even patch open source cheat, talk about competency
Another supported game ruined that will not solve the cheating problem.
Isn't Apex dying anyway?
No, a lot of people play it.
multiplayers games are full of cheaters, even cs2 and dota2 its not even fun anymore, I like single player games
You know, spoofing Linux to allow cheats to function on windows, is unironically, a service skill issue.
World of Warcraft and Overwatch, have user-level anticheat (Warden), because the brunt of the anticheat system is handled server-side (Warden only supplements the process, it's not the core of the process)... And that's why we don't see as many cheaters on those games. The only reason this Linux spoofing even works, is because they have ZERO server-side anticheat going, they rely TOO MUCH on client-side anticheat...
So this is literally just a skill issue on the developer's end, and laziness too, i guess.
Also Counter Strike and Team Fortress 2 now have, i think "VAC 2" or something? And that seems to be working pretty alright too for Linux. :P
The thing about overwatch specifically is that it has handled rage hackers pretty well and have them banned fairly quickly (it's an easy thing to do by statistics and reports alone).
However the cheat community itself adapted and focus more on "closet cheating" in the form of wallhacks/esp and more commonly triggerbots and overly smoothed humanized aimbot.
It's also pretty useless against silent aim as looking at it by a tick by tick basis is infeasible considering the cost of A.I currently.
If you are anywhere near a "above average" level (platinum/diamond+ if you want a rank to base off of) you are going to find A TON of people with their steam account connected that have one or several recent vac bans... i have seen the same damn people in my matches that you don't really see are cheating until you run the replay at extremely slow speeds (a lot of which run widowmaker), that indeed have vac bans to boot, that are STILL playing close to 2 years later.
@@pitchatan That was BEFORE VAC 2, though.
The SECOND they implemented VAC 2, all the bots on TF2 disappeared, lol... The game is playable again!
How doest a f*cking kernel level software doesn't detect a OS masking??? Bro, you're in the KERNEL! the lowest level possible HOW can't you detect it?
on the bright side, linux will have less problems with online gaming addiction
With how much of a dumpster fire apex is at the moment maybe it's a blessing in disguise.
Lucklily I could not care less about competitive online gaming these days
I'm done with this game
The "cheat" problem on Linux is purely theoretical, there is no proof of widespread cheating on Linux.
Well, cheating of any kind in a casual-competitive sense is a problem.
In linux case it's what its being used FOR, the majority of the cheat userbase will not be on linux but the ones trying to "stay under the radar" or trying to be extremely cheap are going to be jumping on linux.
You can directly compare this with AimTux for CSGO ( an open source aimbot, that later got esp/wh) that started to see a larger and larger adoption that coincided with the linux userbase growing larger by the day.
They eventually got a cease and desist (when it comes to further development) , as well as a targeted detection.
It's now defunct and other cheats have taken it's place in the linux space, some being forks off AimTux.
And from what i remember the userbase of AimTux was around 10-15% of linux players.
Apex has the added pro of being a bit harder to developer for from a kernel standpoint (taking the wine translation layer into consideration).. with that being said there are more than a couple of linux native cheats available that have gone completely undetected for years now (eac is entirely toothless against them as it is entirely countered by user permissions and the linux kernel being off limits... at the same time there is nothing stopping cheat devs creating a EAC shunt to fool it into thinking it has privileges.. meaning you feed EAC whatever you want).
You also have the issue of being able to run native software DMA in linux, it was even an issue when it came to VM's as QEMU etc supports external software DMA as well as compositing.
(i.e you run DMA on your host machine for aimbot, locations etc, it then grabs the framebuffer and overlays a esp separately.. meaning you could stream and cheat your ass off in tournaments much like with hardware DMA... i know of a GROUP of players personally that have done this in ALGS qualifiers).
Saying the issue is "theoretical" is nothing short of ignorant.
do you have the data? because im sure they do
@@igorgiuseppe1862 People usually sells cheat. If we make up only 2% of gamers, then it's not worth developing cheats for us.
@@pitchatan Actually in this same video there is a self-confessed Windows cheater who claimed to have spoofed his TPM key and thanks to that he cannot be detected by Vanguard or any other kernel-leve anticheat, and he also said that doing that on Linux would be harder.
KVM is a type-1 hypervisor, so you can do PCI passthrough of any component, it's theoretically possible to do the same on Windows with Hyper-V (at least on Windows Server) it's not a Linux issue per se, and it's a feature that has perfectly legitimate uses.
Linux users soft banned
Dont blame the game devs, blame the smooth brain regards who has to cheat in games. Cheaters really ruin everything.
Blame the old, bald chairman that doesn't know anything about gaming and just want to see money no matter what.
I literally play Apex Legends on Steamdeck💀 wow....
Sorry man. If it's the only place you can play it, you could try installing Windows on it.
It's sad, of course. But to be honest, I understand the concerns of competitive game developers. Over time, there are more and more cheaters. People don't know how to play, don't want to get better at a particular game, and just buy software. The problem is not with the developers, the problem is with the people. As always.
It's the proof that Microsoft lobbyism is working.
Nobody is going to make think that this kind of products is not able to be ported to Linux.
i think microsoft is paying to stop gaming in linux 🤔
Who cares about apex legends
First they came for Battlefield, and I did not speak out-because I was not a Battlefield player.
Then they came for League of Legends, and I did not speak out-because I was not a League of Legends player.
Then they came for GTA V, and I did not speak out-because I was not a GTA V player.
Then they came for my Apex Legends -and there was no one left to speak for me
NOW LINUX IS DEAD NO ONLINE GAME IN LINUX
You can play Deadlock, that's the best esports on Linux RN anyway.
cs2? its the most popular fps and has always worked fine on linux
Insurgency : sandstorm
Hunt: Showdown
Chivalry 2
It can run in Linux...
bye bye linux
linux is dead
No, lol, Linux is doing fine. :)
Cancerous mainstream games are kinda awful anyway. I certainly wont shed any tears over this.
For the monkeys multiplayers gamers, yes.
This is the BSD gaming year