Dude, stop being a homer for Linux. The developers of Apex Legend documented clearly why they did this. Valve as great as they are, isn't going to be shooting themselves in the foot by banning EA, one of the best selling companies in gaming history, from selling their game on Steam, just so that they can shill for Linux. Go watch Chris Titus Tech's piece on this topic. Linux cheaters are messing with the pockets of Apex Legends developers and by extension EA and they made a move. Now in the real world, your overall reach can protect you from such a move. For example, 99% of sales of apex legend is probably from Windows...Lets say there are equal amount of cheaters on both platform... but by Windows having such a much larger install base, it protects them from ever having such a widespread blanket ban... as again, You don't blow off your face in an effort to pop a pimple on your nose. This again goes back to the fundamental issue. Unless Linux gets meaningful marketshare.. enough where it becomes financial suicide to ever pull off such a blanket ban, then linux will always be vulnerable to this. For linux to gain such a marketshare, it will have to not be as fragmented as it is, and likely will have to coalesce around a distro and promote that distro like hell.... all things that are antithetical to Linux and FOSS and thus it ain't happening. Regarding not doing kernel level anticheat. Again. If companies were able to easily prevent cheating without a kernel level system.. they would have done it by now. It's kinda like back in the day of Napster and other file sharing systems. If the music industry had an easy way to prevent illegal downloading of their songs, they would have done it, instead of go after individual people. Nintendo, for example, was able to go after Ryujinx and Yuzu, and it worked.. but let say the maintainers were in a country that would protect app makers.. then the avenue for Nintendo would then be to go after individual people downloading, or ISPs or some other way for them to protect their IP.
Then the same that happens to Valorant or Genshin Impact would happen, people will switch away from Steam to play those games and the situation is now much worse.
They say linux cheaters are getting their hacks for free vs windows users. God, microsoft agents are generous in supplying the cheats for free to linux user...
@@Wkaelx Then you don't know Valve. People have been buying expensive graphics cards just to play Half Life back in the day. Switching to different OS to play the game would make people jump ship from Windows
@@theohallenius8882 Yes, a good game make people swithch plataforms, but switching a desktop OS is not that easy, there are software not avaible, like photoshop and office, others that don't have the same funcionality or are downgraded like Davinci Resolve. Also, many gamers play competitive games like Valorant, Apex, R6 that aren't avaible on Linux. The problem is much deeper, Half Life 3 would be the game of the decade like a GTA 6, it would be shame if it was a flop, I'm saying this as a Valve fan as a Half-Life/Portal/CS/... fan.
Steam in my opinion, is positioned to change the Windwos monopoly. If they play their cards right, Linux can have a chance as a gaming system. I dream of a world where Linux supports games without anything like proton or wine.
This is concerning. I migrated to Linux earlier this year because of all the bullshit coming from Microsoft. I game a lot and I refuse to go back to Windows.
Windows cheats cost money, Linux cheats were published on github for free as open source. Can you see the difference? This game would be destroyed if they didn't do it. It doesn't change the fact that those games are craps anyway XD
I think that with the recent Arch LInux commitment of Valve to help them with infastructure for building and signing packages, the Signed Valve Kernel is probably the direction they will choose. And honestly, I am fine with that. It's a nice way to let the user-level AC know that the linux kernel has not been tampered with. Also, who says that CachyOS cannot just sign their Kernel under Valve's authority, to be "whitelisted" for the all the user-level AntiCheat solutions? I am more than fine with that too, but I don't know if it's possible, due to my lackluster knowledge of system security and cryptography.
RIP Battlefield 1 as well. Honestly, as I bought specifically the Steam version to have easier Linux gaming access, this is indeed very annoying and a bad move from EA. And I still want to play that game. I also agree that this is a problem that Valve needs to solve if they don't want to lose the Linux gaming momentum.
People instead of complaining, and commenting should take matters into their own hands. What I mean people should start voting with their wallets, avoiding, boycotting shitty companies that are anti-consumer, and anti-linux. There is no other way if people want positive change being passive, and doing nothing makes things worse. People should comment on social media, and on shitty company accounts what they think about them. Another argument is supporting small creators of so-called indie games or small studios. And even more so those who are Linux-friendly. Besides, online games are one thing, there are also people who value single-player games more. So you shouldn't generalize and say "gaming on Linux is dying because Apex withdrew support etc." Not at all, there are many games that work on Linux natively that have recently been released. In summary Valve should intervene but users, Linux players too. I mentioned above what they can do. User should not wait with folded arms for Valve, change should also start with the involvement of fans of gaming. In short, start putting pressure on the shitty corporations.
Gabe Newell doesn't give a heck about two much more fair points inside open source: one, "Linux based systems" in the tech charts instead of "Ubuntu" and "Steam OS" (Arch based); two, DRM free games (which means you aren't fully the owner but at least you can have a standalone copy with license of use that can be eventually managed offline, independently from the client, just like GOG). And that's it. Also, even though the BSD side (freeBSD, openBSD and nomadBSD) is 4 years behind Linux in terms of support (also because of selfishness companies like Sony that doesn't contribute to the community) we, as open source contributors/appreciators, do not have to underestimate it. It's a great reality, UNIX based that only imposes ZFS file system (not bad at all).
Something definitely needs to be done about this. I still am gonna stay on linux, the anti cheat stuff needs to be dealt with somehow. Please Valve do something.
There will be no kernel level anti cheats soon. Windows is locking down their kernel soon due to the Crowdstrike fiasco. Vanguard, Battleye, EAC and so on are soon toast.
These game developers and publishers are lazy and will blame everything on anyone but themselves. They #1 do not want to waste time and resources to build a proper non kernel level anti-cheats (which don't even work). Also they write bad code, should they write proper code look at blizzards Warden, kernel level anticheat is not even needed. Bad publishers and lazy developers. Kernel signing would never work to stop cheating, why? Look at windows, All the device drivers need to be signed to be certified for use in windows 10 or 11. Yet people still cheat. On top of this, Windows Kernel themselves are certified signed by Microsoft.
On top of that, studio are justifying their shitty decisions by bad mouthing the Steam Deck (i.e what R* did), I would guess that they make them liable for libel and Valve could sue them for it. H.S. : Mec c't'accent. >.
I'd like to see them come back 1 - 2 months later with evidence that the level of cheating went down after they blocked Steam Deck players access to the game.
Maybe this is what you were trying to explain but it should be possible for games to ship with their own kernel that runs in the user space that can be monitored with anti-cheat. Regular single player games can run from the base linux kernel but online games that require anti-cheat could just run from their own custom kernel with AC included in it.
One thing you didn't really consider is that a lot of people use the Steam Deck for single-player/casual games. I can't be 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure that this is the market that Valve is targeting. It seems like, from all the marketing material, that they are targeting the more affordable and casual single-player/couch co-op gamers. Hence the reason their hardware isn't going hard, and they tend to use indie/casual games as promotion material. Multi-player games are kind of a side market -- I mean, Counter-Strike 2 is only considered 'playable' and they don't seem to be making strives to make it verified (at least not publicly). So I don't believe that Valve is too concerned about this, and I don't know that it's going to hurt their sales from their targeted demographic.
My 2 dream games for Steam Deck were GTA Online and Ghost of Tsushima (Legends aka multiplayer mode) It was a major disappointment to see that GoT Legends simply doesn't work on Steam Deck, and after that, just as GTA got a discount, it's online support was eleminated for the Steam Deck.
I've had my time with Linux and at the end of the day, I totally enjoyed my time with Linux and Linux gaming... But from here on, I'm going to have to switch to Windows on my main gaming PC, permanently, till there is some sort of solution to all of this... If we need to use a specific kernel to play our favorite video games, then that might be the best solution... At least the kernel is in a great spot and there can't be much more improvements to be made to the Linux kernel to improve gaming further. excluding newer hardware releases.
and what about an official Linux use-case kernel, designed specifically to let any anti-cheat software have kernel level access to it, then it can be created by Valve, i would suggest that would be amazing to use the CachyOS-Bore kernel as a base for that. And then any game that requires anticheat, will notify the user that they need to install use that specific use-case kernel on Linux to be able to play that game. Then once your finished playing your game, you switch back to your regular kernel you're using
Think that you're a normal person that just switched from Windows to Linux, Now you'll need to download a custom kernel version just to play games? This is not the best solution, only if valve did it easier, maybe through a new UI in steam? But, you would need to teach the user how to switch kernels, it's not something easy. If we want to have more marketshare we need to uncomplicate things, this is literaly the opposite.
Although different i had similar idea of builtin anticheat module that is open source, then you use that even though its anti cheat at least you can inspect it and make sure it does nothing nefarious
@@Wkaelx yeah but Valve could make it easier eg.: valve notifies user to toggle a button to use the specific kernel, without requiring any terminal stuff, and then use it to play that game with anticheat.... or better yet valve could create a special module inside their kernel, that you can toggle to let anticheat have access to the kernel while your playing the game, then wehn you finished playing you can toggle that module off. so you can deny while not playing any rootkit, and then that mechanism in that module could be applied to the rest of the regular linux kernels, so every distro can have a chance to play games with kernel-level anticheat
If my uneducated self could have a say on this, an open source anti-cheat kernel loadable on the fly module could solve this issue for every game that would like to adopt it and then we could play every such game in Linux.
Thank you for this video. Is it possible that Valve will react to this somehow? I guess they should care that games like Battelfield or Apex Legends run on Steam Deck and that steamdeck continues to be Linux based. I don't tend to play online but I'm worried. Is there anything we can do as a community? I already lost my one game Battelfield 1 before I started playing it. I promise that if Valve solves this problem I will buy Steamdeck.
You fundamentally cannot do anti cheat / drm / anti piracy without completely locking down the device. As long as you can "side load" stuff on your device (Steam Deck/Linux PC/modded console/rooted phone etc.), you can just forget about anti-cheat. This is a fundamental problem in computer security. People were already talking about this a decade ago with the Trusted Platform Model, which I think was mostly meant for drm. I think anti-cheat is the wrong way to go. But I have no solution to the problem of online games dying because of cheating. This is a hard problem.
This whole situation got me thinking, they say that a lot of cheaters are on Linux and we all know that there is hardware spoofers out there to pass undetected, it probably means that these hardware spoofer devices are running on Linux? And this is why they want to ban it? But if that is the case they only need an old pc running on Windows to do the hardware spoofing instead of using these hardware spoofer devices that run on Linux, or stronger hardware spoofing devices that can run Windows... Edit: It's crazy how at the end of the video you reached the same conclusion I made in the comment I made halfway through the video... It will be the saaaaaame.
I saw you reviewed CS2 on linux several times, so i want to say that the game feels amazing now even on my really not powerful pc (Ryzen 5 2600 CPU, RX 6400 GPU). Only thing im doing is that you shared in your guide on CachyOS launch parameters for shaders and game-performance AND corectrl fixed High mode for GPU and still choosing governor performance (idk if it needed after that launch parameter) and its works amazing, but if i disable corectrl profile fps start drop little bit. Can you maybe review CS2 once again? I think its already time because game runs better
User is should be right to have say because it's customers right to use what they wanted if vote against this they will have know choice but to support Linux.
In my opinion, "money" is the way ... EA and other companies do games to earn money, not to please gamers. Valve build plateform to earn money, and make Steam Deck / Proton to earn more money (and be less dependent from Windows market). That's the way it works. So for companies who play Valve rules (i mean Steam Deck and Linux compatibility), Valve should less charge them, and for those who don't play this way, there will be more charges, for free games and all games. Period. So real question is : what is Valve's weight on game market ?
Well there's a way to change this believe it or not and it's in politics. Someone just needs to start a campaign to explain how kernel level anticheat works why it's dangerous and then let all politicians in EU know that China owns riot and has kernel level anticheat in every local network of EU basically just because of how huge leagues and Valorant are.
I never understood why or how this wasn't caught by the EU, nor how they allow this to essentially hand over their entire continent's Computer control if Riot were to cave to external pressure by Tencent. Further, other games have this as well. I wouldn't put it past the EU to disallow such privacy invasions, though I am an American, so I don't know how strict they are on that.
I dont play games with kernel level spyware and i won't buy or play games from EA anyway. Seems pretty strange to me just as linux use is getting more popular due to Microsoft's recall diaster.
the only good ea did was to save my hard drive space for now the only viable solution is a server side anti cheat where AI can detect anomalies better than kernel level anti cheats
Well, I'm not going back to windows on my next build, that's for sure. I'll stick with the games available on Linux. I do worry about one thing though: Create the problem, propose the solution. Here's a conspiracy: M$ already contributes code to Linux. M$ wants their telemetry and AI hooks in *everything* . M$ is paying good money to keep games out of Linux, which doesn't make sense when you consider they also are contributing and want their hooks into everything. What if anticheat and no games on Linux is just the intentionally created "crisis", with M$ then stepping forward with their own signed kernel that the anti-cheat companies will be OK with to the great cheering of many about how they're fighting on the 'good' side ... while that signed kernel of course just happens to have their telemetry hooks built in? Yeah they won't rope in everyone, but they *will* rope in almost everyone who plays games on PC, which would be an amazing boon for their data farms. Basically "We don't care who puts their name on the OS, just as long as we have access to the telemetry from it".
Valve should throw the games out of the store. No Linux means no Windows as well. Its not linke kernel level would fix anything. The discussion is flawed.
low tide doesn't mean the sea is drying out. if Gaben teached me something, it's that you can't have endless win streak. few games with anticheats don't mean a shit. Sure they are popular, but they are nothing in comparison of all singleplayer games combined, not even close. in addition, who really plays competitive pvp on steamdeck? even with trackpads and gyro aiming, you most likely will get destroyed by anyone who can move a mouse. in conclusion, this video is more of fear mongering
They have to find a solution which is not necessarily working at kernel-space. Kernelspace is a no go @linux. Btw. just don't play Apex, but I assume there are more anti-cheat-shoot coming @linux. I on my side would definitly don't buy such games and stay at linux, cause Windows is some kind of "Spyware" I do not want to support anymore. Perhaps there is something "boiling" in the background.... Linuxplayerbase is too small, but has a great impact on cheating at apex? Don't get it...
the only solution is for gamers to say FU you dont get kernel access and make them back down just like they do with the woke... when it hits the wallet they react. To deal with cheaters they dont need kernel access or anything beyond what the game has access to already.
If you look at the breakdown of Steam users by OS, Windows has 96% of users compared to 2% of users on Linux. I don't see how they are claiming that a majority of the cheating that goes on in their game comes from users on Linux. I'd say there's probably less than 1% of the linux user base that even plays Apex Legends, so without them showing the data to back up their claims that there are more cheaters on Linux than there are on Windows is hard to take seriously. So the only solution would be to stay on Windows if playing these games are so important to the gamers.
They don't care for Linux. It has nothing to do with Linux at all. Kernel level anti-cheats has been a thing in Windows for a long while. It's a mouse and cat game: it makes it harder to make a cheat, but because they're on the same Ring 0 it's only a matter of time and willingness to hack it.
I like this channel, but it deletes comments that are not even out of place. I don't like that, so i'm just gonna go my way. Good luck with UA-cam !! All the best !!
Parallel universe where Canonical (cause Ubuntu and derivatives have the largest user base) and Valve do a partnership and Valve provides a signed kernel only for Canonical OS es. You'd get the worst of both world hahahahahah I mean, i'd take Ubuntu, EVEN WITH GNOME, if im able to play all kernel anti-cheat games...🤣
kenel level cheat need. that why cs player had to go for 3 rd party site(like faace it) to play it. install fking windows don't cry if you wanna play games. i also dual boot . CS2 garbage . cheat prob left for more than 10 year still same. if game popular its multipyaer its normal to try ppl make cheat so they can sell. so AC is must if they cant run your OS they should ban OS its fine. You act like you never seen a software that make OS specific. Gane is also just software.
@@MoogMuskie I don't respond to stupid questions. Sometimes, you need to grow up and stop making absolute statements, whois going to leave Steam or give up on DRM-free games?
@@КириллЗарипов-м9б Lol, what? I mean, you said "No, thanks." without any other context. What response did you expect? Didn't you just respond to me? Apparently you don't respond to stupid questions. And when did I ever make a single statement? You're getting triggered for no reason. When you say no thanks to someone saying GOG all the way, it makes it sound like you're saying no thanks to using GOG.
This wouldn't make sense. Valve has invested a lot in linux gaming to no longer be as dependant on Microsoft. Also the steam deck 2 isn't yet confirmed by valve so then confirming that it will run windows doesn't make sense.
You'll have to cite a source on that I don't see any reason why they would throw away all their time and effort in making games work on Linux Also their recent investments in Arch indicate they have more plans to work with that in the future
the obsession with anti-cheat is one of the many problems in gaming.
Microsoft covert payments to devs to stop Linux advancement. Remember what Microsoft said may years ago "Developers!👏DEVELOPERS!👏DEVELOPERS!"
^This. Don't forget that EA, Riot, etc. also feel Valve is a threat. 😥
Wow, I've seen you comment a lot on Odysee, surprised to bump into you here.
@@MoogMuskie Odysee friend!
Hope you don't forget to wear your tinfoil hat.
@@ml_serenity found the day trader 🙄
Valve could say to EA , etc, you cannot sell your games on steam unless you sort out the anti-competitive, anti-trust , kernel level anticheat ?
Dude, stop being a homer for Linux. The developers of Apex Legend documented clearly why they did this. Valve as great as they are, isn't going to be shooting themselves in the foot by banning EA, one of the best selling companies in gaming history, from selling their game on Steam, just so that they can shill for Linux. Go watch Chris Titus Tech's piece on this topic. Linux cheaters are messing with the pockets of Apex Legends developers and by extension EA and they made a move.
Now in the real world, your overall reach can protect you from such a move. For example, 99% of sales of apex legend is probably from Windows...Lets say there are equal amount of cheaters on both platform... but by Windows having such a much larger install base, it protects them from ever having such a widespread blanket ban... as again, You don't blow off your face in an effort to pop a pimple on your nose.
This again goes back to the fundamental issue. Unless Linux gets meaningful marketshare.. enough where it becomes financial suicide to ever pull off such a blanket ban, then linux will always be vulnerable to this. For linux to gain such a marketshare, it will have to not be as fragmented as it is, and likely will have to coalesce around a distro and promote that distro like hell.... all things that are antithetical to Linux and FOSS and thus it ain't happening.
Regarding not doing kernel level anticheat. Again. If companies were able to easily prevent cheating without a kernel level system.. they would have done it by now. It's kinda like back in the day of Napster and other file sharing systems. If the music industry had an easy way to prevent illegal downloading of their songs, they would have done it, instead of go after individual people. Nintendo, for example, was able to go after Ryujinx and Yuzu, and it worked.. but let say the maintainers were in a country that would protect app makers.. then the avenue for Nintendo would then be to go after individual people downloading, or ISPs or some other way for them to protect their IP.
Then the same that happens to Valorant or Genshin Impact would happen, people will switch away from Steam to play those games and the situation is now much worse.
Gabe is not reactive like that. But they all end up bending the knee to him
@@Wkaelx genshin impact works on linux though. i play it from linux just fine
They say linux cheaters are getting their hacks for free vs windows users. God, microsoft agents are generous in supplying the cheats for free to linux user...
Valve should release HL3 exclusively on Linux.
And then you have a flop
@@Wkaelx Not if they make a similar leap in technology as before.
YES
This is a brilliant idea, Linux is free to install and use so people will have no trouble breaking the stereotypes.
@@Wkaelx Then you don't know Valve. People have been buying expensive graphics cards just to play Half Life back in the day. Switching to different OS to play the game would make people jump ship from Windows
@@theohallenius8882 Yes, a good game make people swithch plataforms, but switching a desktop OS is not that easy, there are software not avaible, like photoshop and office, others that don't have the same funcionality or are downgraded like Davinci Resolve.
Also, many gamers play competitive games like Valorant, Apex, R6 that aren't avaible on Linux.
The problem is much deeper, Half Life 3 would be the game of the decade like a GTA 6, it would be shame if it was a flop, I'm saying this as a Valve fan as a Half-Life/Portal/CS/... fan.
Pls stop calling it "kernel level anti cheat" its a fkin "rootkit" plain and simple
true, but it won't change anything, Windows users already have multiple rootkits on their system xDD
@zocker1600 true though, if u already have a rootkit on fresh windows installation adding 3 or 4 more it won't change much
@@bigbrain8839 It does change the odds of something going wrong. Each rookit multiplies your odds of being affected.
@@Miranox2 i mean the person not the device, like the "normal user" one
Steam in my opinion, is positioned to change the Windwos monopoly. If they play their cards right, Linux can have a chance as a gaming system. I dream of a world where Linux supports games without anything like proton or wine.
This is concerning. I migrated to Linux earlier this year because of all the bullshit coming from Microsoft. I game a lot and I refuse to go back to Windows.
some 1 makes 1 cheat for a game on linux (devs quick block linux) in the mean time 99.99% of cheaters are on windows and never get banned
Windows cheats cost money, Linux cheats were published on github for free as open source. Can you see the difference? This game would be destroyed if they didn't do it. It doesn't change the fact that those games are craps anyway XD
@@mafioso12dk there's definitely free cheats for windows as well, if not more considering how popular windows is (hopefully that changes)
I think that with the recent Arch LInux commitment of Valve to help them with infastructure for building and signing packages, the Signed Valve Kernel is probably the direction they will choose. And honestly, I am fine with that. It's a nice way to let the user-level AC know that the linux kernel has not been tampered with.
Also, who says that CachyOS cannot just sign their Kernel under Valve's authority, to be "whitelisted" for the all the user-level AntiCheat solutions? I am more than fine with that too, but I don't know if it's possible, due to my lackluster knowledge of system security and cryptography.
RIP Battlefield 1 as well. Honestly, as I bought specifically the Steam version to have easier Linux gaming access, this is indeed very annoying and a bad move from EA. And I still want to play that game. I also agree that this is a problem that Valve needs to solve if they don't want to lose the Linux gaming momentum.
kärnäl lövel.
gotta love that thick french accent xD
People instead of complaining, and commenting should take matters into their own hands. What I mean people should start voting with their wallets, avoiding, boycotting shitty companies that are anti-consumer, and anti-linux. There is no other way if people want positive change being passive, and doing nothing makes things worse. People should comment on social media, and on shitty company accounts what they think about them.
Another argument is supporting small creators of so-called indie games or small studios. And even more so those who are Linux-friendly.
Besides, online games are one thing, there are also people who value single-player games more. So you shouldn't generalize and say "gaming on Linux is dying because Apex withdrew support etc." Not at all, there are many games that work on Linux natively that have recently been released.
In summary Valve should intervene but users, Linux players too. I mentioned above what they can do. User should not wait with folded arms for Valve, change should also start with the involvement of fans of gaming. In short, start putting pressure on the shitty corporations.
And consumers can also do "war opinion" on those companies ... It works in past.
this was a good stream i enjoyed this stream
Gabe Newell doesn't give a heck about two much more fair points inside open source: one, "Linux based systems" in the tech charts instead of "Ubuntu" and "Steam OS" (Arch based); two, DRM free games (which means you aren't fully the owner but at least you can have a standalone copy with license of use that can be eventually managed offline, independently from the client, just like GOG). And that's it. Also, even though the BSD side (freeBSD, openBSD and nomadBSD) is 4 years behind Linux in terms of support (also because of selfishness companies like Sony that doesn't contribute to the community) we, as open source contributors/appreciators, do not have to underestimate it. It's a great reality, UNIX based that only imposes ZFS file system (not bad at all).
Something definitely needs to be done about this. I still am gonna stay on linux, the anti cheat stuff needs to be dealt with somehow. Please Valve do something.
Just don't play kernel level anti-cheat games. The only success I've seen with boycotting companies came from gamers.
There will be no kernel level anti cheats soon. Windows is locking down their kernel soon due to the Crowdstrike fiasco. Vanguard, Battleye, EAC and so on are soon toast.
@@baraka629 lol no
These game developers and publishers are lazy and will blame everything on anyone but themselves. They #1 do not want to waste time and resources to build a proper non kernel level anti-cheats (which don't even work). Also they write bad code, should they write proper code look at blizzards Warden, kernel level anticheat is not even needed. Bad publishers and lazy developers.
Kernel signing would never work to stop cheating, why? Look at windows, All the device drivers need to be signed to be certified for use in windows 10 or 11. Yet people still cheat. On top of this, Windows Kernel themselves are certified signed by Microsoft.
On top of that, studio are justifying their shitty decisions by bad mouthing the Steam Deck (i.e what R* did), I would guess that they make them liable for libel and Valve could sue them for it.
H.S. : Mec c't'accent. >.
I'd like to see them come back 1 - 2 months later with evidence that the level of cheating went down after they blocked Steam Deck players access to the game.
The game actually dropped below 100k
I play indies mostly so doesn't affect me but sad to see Linux gaming is no longer ascendant, hopefully Valve does something to reverse this trend
Maybe this is what you were trying to explain but it should be possible for games to ship with their own kernel that runs in the user space that can be monitored with anti-cheat. Regular single player games can run from the base linux kernel but online games that require anti-cheat could just run from their own custom kernel with AC included in it.
There are more than enough games for us not to give money to companies that does this.
One thing you didn't really consider is that a lot of people use the Steam Deck for single-player/casual games. I can't be 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure that this is the market that Valve is targeting. It seems like, from all the marketing material, that they are targeting the more affordable and casual single-player/couch co-op gamers. Hence the reason their hardware isn't going hard, and they tend to use indie/casual games as promotion material. Multi-player games are kind of a side market -- I mean, Counter-Strike 2 is only considered 'playable' and they don't seem to be making strives to make it verified (at least not publicly).
So I don't believe that Valve is too concerned about this, and I don't know that it's going to hurt their sales from their targeted demographic.
Fair point.
My 2 dream games for Steam Deck were GTA Online and Ghost of Tsushima (Legends aka multiplayer mode)
It was a major disappointment to see that GoT Legends simply doesn't work on Steam Deck, and after that, just as GTA got a discount, it's online support was eleminated for the Steam Deck.
the only way out i see is, valve has to pay AC devs to support Linux until it becomes big enough so that devs cannot ignore it anymore.
I've had my time with Linux and at the end of the day, I totally enjoyed my time with Linux and Linux gaming... But from here on, I'm going to have to switch to Windows on my main gaming PC, permanently, till there is some sort of solution to all of this... If we need to use a specific kernel to play our favorite video games, then that might be the best solution... At least the kernel is in a great spot and there can't be much more improvements to be made to the Linux kernel to improve gaming further. excluding newer hardware releases.
and what about an official Linux use-case kernel, designed specifically to let any anti-cheat software have kernel level access to it, then it can be created by Valve, i would suggest that would be amazing to use the CachyOS-Bore kernel as a base for that. And then any game that requires anticheat, will notify the user that they need to install use that specific use-case kernel on Linux to be able to play that game. Then once your finished playing your game, you switch back to your regular kernel you're using
Think that you're a normal person that just switched from Windows to Linux, Now you'll need to download a custom kernel version just to play games? This is not the best solution, only if valve did it easier, maybe through a new UI in steam? But, you would need to teach the user how to switch kernels, it's not something easy.
If we want to have more marketshare we need to uncomplicate things, this is literaly the opposite.
Although different i had similar idea of builtin anticheat module that is open source, then you use that even though its anti cheat at least you can inspect it and make sure it does nothing nefarious
@@Wkaelx most people tend to follow a few number of distros that are specific to gaming which kernel module for anti cheats can be implemented there
@@Wkaelx yeah but Valve could make it easier eg.: valve notifies user to toggle a button to use the specific kernel, without requiring any terminal stuff, and then use it to play that game with anticheat....
or better yet valve could create a special module inside their kernel, that you can toggle to let anticheat have access to the kernel while your playing the game, then wehn you finished playing you can toggle that module off. so you can deny while not playing any rootkit, and then that mechanism in that module could be applied to the rest of the regular linux kernels, so every distro can have a chance to play games with kernel-level anticheat
If my uneducated self could have a say on this, an open source anti-cheat kernel loadable on the fly module could solve this issue for every game that would like to adopt it and then we could play every such game in Linux.
Will SW Battlefront 2 suffer the same sad fate? Or will it have anti-cheat implemented?
Could you please explain why AC isn't on the server level? I don't understand why the AC software for PVP/online games has to be on my device.
Thank you for this video. Is it possible that Valve will react to this somehow? I guess they should care that games like Battelfield or Apex Legends run on Steam Deck and that steamdeck continues to be Linux based. I don't tend to play online but I'm worried. Is there anything we can do as a community? I already lost my one game Battelfield 1 before I started playing it. I promise that if Valve solves this problem I will buy Steamdeck.
You fundamentally cannot do anti cheat / drm / anti piracy without completely locking down the device. As long as you can "side load" stuff on your device (Steam Deck/Linux PC/modded console/rooted phone etc.), you can just forget about anti-cheat. This is a fundamental problem in computer security. People were already talking about this a decade ago with the Trusted Platform Model, which I think was mostly meant for drm.
I think anti-cheat is the wrong way to go. But I have no solution to the problem of online games dying because of cheating. This is a hard problem.
server side anti cheat would be the best option in my opinion. people have been using hardware cheats as well so yea...
So now that Apex got rid of this massive amount of cheating Linux gamers the game will now be a breeze to play eh?
You made me chuckle.
This whole situation got me thinking, they say that a lot of cheaters are on Linux and we all know that there is hardware spoofers out there to pass undetected, it probably means that these hardware spoofer devices are running on Linux? And this is why they want to ban it? But if that is the case they only need an old pc running on Windows to do the hardware spoofing instead of using these hardware spoofer devices that run on Linux, or stronger hardware spoofing devices that can run Windows...
Edit: It's crazy how at the end of the video you reached the same conclusion I made in the comment I made halfway through the video... It will be the saaaaaame.
Just play Deadlock that's the proper Linux ESport.
I saw you reviewed CS2 on linux several times, so i want to say that the game feels amazing now even on my really not powerful pc (Ryzen 5 2600 CPU, RX 6400 GPU). Only thing im doing is that you shared in your guide on CachyOS launch parameters for shaders and game-performance AND corectrl fixed High mode for GPU and still choosing governor performance (idk if it needed after that launch parameter) and its works amazing, but if i disable corectrl profile fps start drop little bit. Can you maybe review CS2 once again? I think its already time because game runs better
Maybe, and this is just a thought, they should let cheaters play on their own servers instead of forcing them to play with everyone else
User is should be right to have say because it's customers right to use what they wanted if vote against this they will have know choice but to support Linux.
Impossible without subtitles🤣🤣
In my opinion, "money" is the way ... EA and other companies do games to earn money, not to please gamers. Valve build plateform to earn money, and make Steam Deck / Proton to earn more money (and be less dependent from Windows market). That's the way it works. So for companies who play Valve rules (i mean Steam Deck and Linux compatibility), Valve should less charge them, and for those who don't play this way, there will be more charges, for free games and all games. Period. So real question is : what is Valve's weight on game market ?
Charge them more if they do not support linux? I'm all for that lol
They could make a kernel module that does all the anticheats.
No, you could but no, that is a horrible idea that should never ever ever be done.
Well there's a way to change this believe it or not and it's in politics. Someone just needs to start a campaign to explain how kernel level anticheat works why it's dangerous and then let all politicians in EU know that China owns riot and has kernel level anticheat in every local network of EU basically just because of how huge leagues and Valorant are.
I never understood why or how this wasn't caught by the EU, nor how they allow this to essentially hand over their entire continent's Computer control if Riot were to cave to external pressure by Tencent. Further, other games have this as well. I wouldn't put it past the EU to disallow such privacy invasions, though I am an American, so I don't know how strict they are on that.
I dont play games with kernel level spyware and i won't buy or play games from EA anyway. Seems pretty strange to me just as linux use is getting more popular due to Microsoft's recall diaster.
the only good ea did was to save my hard drive space
for now the only viable solution is a server side anti cheat where AI can detect anomalies better than kernel level anti cheats
Well, I'm not going back to windows on my next build, that's for sure. I'll stick with the games available on Linux. I do worry about one thing though: Create the problem, propose the solution. Here's a conspiracy: M$ already contributes code to Linux. M$ wants their telemetry and AI hooks in *everything* . M$ is paying good money to keep games out of Linux, which doesn't make sense when you consider they also are contributing and want their hooks into everything. What if anticheat and no games on Linux is just the intentionally created "crisis", with M$ then stepping forward with their own signed kernel that the anti-cheat companies will be OK with to the great cheering of many about how they're fighting on the 'good' side ... while that signed kernel of course just happens to have their telemetry hooks built in? Yeah they won't rope in everyone, but they *will* rope in almost everyone who plays games on PC, which would be an amazing boon for their data farms. Basically "We don't care who puts their name on the OS, just as long as we have access to the telemetry from it".
Valve should throw the games out of the store. No Linux means no Windows as well.
Its not linke kernel level would fix anything. The discussion is flawed.
low tide doesn't mean the sea is drying out. if Gaben teached me something, it's that you can't have endless win streak. few games with anticheats don't mean a shit. Sure they are popular, but they are nothing in comparison of all singleplayer games combined, not even close. in addition, who really plays competitive pvp on steamdeck? even with trackpads and gyro aiming, you most likely will get destroyed by anyone who can move a mouse. in conclusion, this video is more of fear mongering
They have to find a solution which is not necessarily working at kernel-space. Kernelspace is a no go @linux. Btw. just don't play Apex, but I assume there are more anti-cheat-shoot coming @linux. I on my side would definitly don't buy such games and stay at linux, cause Windows is some kind of "Spyware" I do not want to support anymore.
Perhaps there is something "boiling" in the background....
Linuxplayerbase is too small, but has a great impact on cheating at apex? Don't get it...
What app is he using to draw?
excalidraw
What is Valve gonna do? Probably absolutely nothing. They dont care imo and its unfortunate
the only solution is for gamers to say FU you dont get kernel access and make them back down
just like they do with the woke... when it hits the wallet they react.
To deal with cheaters they dont need kernel access or anything beyond what the game has access to already.
ça fait longtemps que j'ai banni tout jeu EA. Une société qui n'a pas du tout ma confiance.
If you look at the breakdown of Steam users by OS, Windows has 96% of users compared to 2% of users on Linux. I don't see how they are claiming that a majority of the cheating that goes on in their game comes from users on Linux. I'd say there's probably less than 1% of the linux user base that even plays Apex Legends, so without them showing the data to back up their claims that there are more cheaters on Linux than there are on Windows is hard to take seriously. So the only solution would be to stay on Windows if playing these games are so important to the gamers.
They don't care for Linux. It has nothing to do with Linux at all. Kernel level anti-cheats has been a thing in Windows for a long while. It's a mouse and cat game: it makes it harder to make a cheat, but because they're on the same Ring 0 it's only a matter of time and willingness to hack it.
To the cheaters on linux: You are the reason why developers stop supporting linux. Congratulations, now no one on linux can play apex anymore.
valve save us
I like this channel, but it deletes comments that are not even out of place. I don't like that, so i'm just gonna go my way. Good luck with UA-cam !! All the best !!
What? UA-cam does its thing I don't delete anything....
youtube auto deletes some comments for no reason, garbage platform
At first i thought so too, but after investigating more deeply, actually Google deletes comments with their shitty anti-spam a.i. based system.
Make Half Life 3 Linux exclusive, problem solved
Parallel universe where Canonical (cause Ubuntu and derivatives have the largest user base) and Valve do a partnership and Valve provides a signed kernel only for Canonical OS es.
You'd get the worst of both world hahahahahah
I mean, i'd take Ubuntu, EVEN WITH GNOME, if im able to play all kernel anti-cheat games...🤣
kenel level cheat need. that why cs player had to go for 3 rd party site(like faace it) to play it. install fking windows don't cry if you wanna play games. i also dual boot . CS2 garbage . cheat prob left for more than 10 year still same. if game popular its multipyaer its normal to try ppl make cheat so they can sell. so AC is must if they cant run your OS they should ban OS its fine. You act like you never seen a software that make OS specific. Gane is also just software.
Well since we don't own our games. Steam doesn't get anymore money. GOG all the way now.
No, thanks
@@КириллЗарипов-м9б Are you saying no thanks to DRM-Free games?
@@MoogMuskie I don't respond to stupid questions.
Sometimes, you need to grow up and stop making absolute statements, whois going to leave Steam or give up on DRM-free games?
@@КириллЗарипов-м9б Lol, what? I mean, you said "No, thanks." without any other context. What response did you expect? Didn't you just respond to me? Apparently you don't respond to stupid questions. And when did I ever make a single statement? You're getting triggered for no reason.
When you say no thanks to someone saying GOG all the way, it makes it sound like you're saying no thanks to using GOG.
Valve can't put fines on games because they use kernel anti-cheat. As much as I hate kernel anti-cheat, this would not be right.
Btw Valve cant force developers to do anything with their products.
😐😐😐
no fix for offline game and we dream to play online
linux born -- birth dead
there is no linux gaming
Its not going to impact valve the game industry is dead right now games gate people are sick of woke games
Steam deck 2 will be on Windows. Confirmed by valve
@@marcinpawelski4091 source?
This wouldn't make sense. Valve has invested a lot in linux gaming to no longer be as dependant on Microsoft. Also the steam deck 2 isn't yet confirmed by valve so then confirming that it will run windows doesn't make sense.
That doesnt make sense it will be linux...
haha you need to put so much more video RAM in for Windows it's not worth it.
You'll have to cite a source on that
I don't see any reason why they would throw away all their time and effort in making games work on Linux
Also their recent investments in Arch indicate they have more plans to work with that in the future