I'd argue the issue is old models with new prices. Those sprues are sparse compared to new stuff but carry a similar price tag. Bad lines from what I've seen on unboxings too.
Thank you for the explanation! I would have preferred if GW had not included the rule book in the starter kits, as it could make the boxes cheaper and for those people like me who intend to buy both will end up with two books. I understand why they have done it, but making sets cheaper and buying the rule book separately would have been better.
The TK box's price is kinda ridiculous since most of those models in it are 20+ years old, maybe older in the case of the horses if they didn't redo those.
It is a bit of a shame really isn’t it. Future boxes will be a little painful if everyone of them has the rulebook. Currently I’m planning on selling the second book I’ll have but that is going to be increasingly more difficult if I end up with a thousand of them
I remeber playing when the game first came out but with GW seeming to just be seeing if there is a bit more coin to be squeezed out of us I am sorry but I will stick with conquest a far more fleshed out game better models more comitment by Para Bellum to there game do not trust GW to stick with it
I used to play warhammer when i was 9, now i am almost 24, i love this game with all my hearth but sadly even if now i have a work i don't think that i will buy the boxes or new troops... I have a old daemon army and i will look forward to play them again but i would have loved to try the tomb kings, unfortunatly i did some research and between the box,the manuals, the colours to paint them, the brushes, the spray, the citadel box to hold them and at least one extra unit to get close to 1500 points it would cost me near 800 euros... Hope they fix those prices, i know that hobbies like this are not for everyone but i remember buying boxes with 80 models at 70 euros years ago, now everything sounds too expensive even with old models.
It’s really difficult, especially in current times financially. I think the prices of the models haven’t really gone up with inflation, but the new models can be expensive. Maybe wait for them to become cheaper second hand, build up an army slowly and use alternative models.
@@MiniatureRealms yes, anyway i hope they really make it with this new edition and i hope that your channel really make it, continue with this fantastic work sir
I want to be enthusiastic about being able to get Brettonian miniatures but I have zero faith supply will be there and the prices already seem to be very high for old models. I also have zero faith and I really do mean zero faith that this game will get the proper support it needs and I have a deep seeded feeling that it will be gone within a year or two. I just have absolutely no faith in this unfortunately. I think I will just hold fast and wait until later in the year or just not get any of the miniatures at all.
I checked the price for the starter box and my fears were immediately rationalized. The cost is $255 for the starter box. I knew they were going to price people out of it from the get go. Honestly Stuart I am more than happy to just stick with 15mm historical miniatures where I am not beholden to the whims of any one company. Maybe down the road I will see about the Old World stuff but honestly id rather buy some hex and counter wargames and historical miniatures over one box of GW stuff. Alas it is not for me but more power to anyone who wants to pay extortion fees. Thinking about it its probably a better option to get a 3d printer and print similar style miniatures or even use historical miniatures. If you got the box set I look forward to seeing those pegasus knights being painted! @@MiniatureRealms
When thinking about value keep in mind how much people invested the last time around with fantasy only to have the game destroyed. Not being salty just practical.
Very true, but in balance GW never took back peoples armies and rules when they ended the game. It was incredibly sad, and it will be again if this game doesn’t work out. But in terms of a value proposition, it’s completely fair to include that in your personal reasons for deciding if a return to the game is worth it or not.
@@MiniatureRealms well my main issue was they never fixed the bloat that armies were facing in 8th. I play warhammer armies project with my friends and enjoy it to this day.I hope those that excited for old world get a great game, I just have tempered expectations. Cheers.
On the topic of value, if I can buy a 3d printer buy a shady stl with higher quality as decade old wh sculpts for 10 bucks, print a 1000 point army and then throw the printer away and end up ! cheaper ! than warhammers army box, then I quesiton this "value". Of course its cheaper by design to buy an overpriced bundle vs overpriced unit boxes seperately. Doesnt make 5.5 euro per plastic mini not exorbitantly overpriced when considering the amount you need to fill such an army for it to be playable. This is plastic, not crack.
My comment on pricing is only in relation to GW prices in general. GW is definitely expensive, and 3d printing is a cheaper option for sure (I 3d print as well). That’s the think with value, it works differently for everyone, and it’s entirely valid to compare GW pricing to printing your own armies when making your own decision on whether to buy or not.
I don’t think so, and I’m sure they’ve said it won’t somewhere. However the ‘Mercenaries’ rule suggests something, especially as there’s an ‘Allies’ rule as well.
I just bought into gloomspite gitz and am halfway an 2k army. As much as i want to start old world, i dont have the time and money 😢 The bretonnia box also has to much infantry for my taste
That’s fair enough, I definitely have more projects than it’s healthy sometimes, both with time and money. The box probably has the right balance with infantry for the new rules, the standard army list requires basic troops now, only the errantry list in the Arcane Journal allows all Cav.
My biggest fear is GW gets a little greedy with prices and Old World is dead before it even starts a lot of ppl already have these minis so no need to buy old sculpts …. We will see
I think a lot of people will print armies and use alternative models as well. I’m hoping the rules are good enough to forge a good community, don’t mind what models they use really.
Warhammer Fantasy will always have a place in my heart. After the DeAgostini LOTR magazines, Warhammer Fantasy was my lead into tabletop wargaming. However, I cannot see GW putting a lot of effort into this beyond a year or two of hype (3 year cycle on all their current games?) - their entire business model is for new gamers, and not 'rewarding' existing ones. And since they killed the Old World, there have just emerged better, and more flexible and fun rank and flank fantasy games that will serve as an exit point for new players entering the genre. It will depend on how they support it, but I am not sure there is that much of a driver from GW for the Old World. Old sculpts from 20 years ago (some are new granted) and the limited print run of the starter sets suggests this is a low-effort line (although...GW print/production lines yeesh), and not the return of a major game for them, I agree. I think this means its likely to not meet a lot of excited expectations because of that. Ah, the heady days of 20 years ago - 40K, WFB, LOTR on main studio releases *nostalgic sigh* There has always been a slight suspicion for me about the timing of the Old World announcement which appeared just when Kings of War 3rd edition was announced (rank and flank fantasy battles which picked up a lot of former Warhammer fantasy gamers when the End Times happened). Now GW vs Mantic is the 800lb Gorilla to the 20lb yappy Dachshund, but it was still a wierd timing for a game not due out for almost half a decade from announcement (even with the 'Vid happening, at launch it was years away). All that aside, I genuinely hope I am wrong, and that returning and new WFB players get a lot of joy out of it. I'm a bit out of GW's gravity well for the foreseeable though. Final thought - maybe re-release of older WFB Black library series too because of it though?
I think it will be better supported than you imagine, but yes it’s definitely not a main line game anymore, and there will be a big difference compared to those days. The starter sets were limited runs like some game, just sold out, they are going to be restocked. So that’s a good thing at least. They’ve brought back a couple of omnibus novels, so I think (hope) we could see a few more.
Sorry Stu. Im just still trying to get my chin off the floor. Ive looked at what I would want for Bretonnia. Im hitting the £576 mark which is just uterly insane. £53 just for the standard bearer kit. £36 for the Grail Knights and you ideally would at least want 9 for a unit. This pricing I still havent got to include Questing Knights , Trebuchet or that new Enchantress.... As much as I ove the game this is just way out of my budget which I thought was a healthy budget. I invested both French and British in Napoleoninc Epic which was a big investment but this is just nuts...😊
Oh yeah it’s got the potential be crazy expensive. That’s not the only way to do it though. I’m going to be making my Grail and Questing knights from Knights of the Realms, and spare bits from the Foot knights kit when it comes out. So I get you, but you can get a 2k list and books for much cheaper.
All the interesting factions aren't in it. And Lore can't be the reason - because they make that up. It's because they don't want to produce the two miniatures it takes to be supporting those factions.
Where is that information from, that the armybook will be available as free PDF download? Or just for those factions, that are not included? I can´t believe it. Since today, you can preorder "the good" and "the bad" armybook for 40 €. Should I wait?
The information about the free pdf army lists is in a number of the articles. The free lists will only be for the ‘Legacy’ factions though, not all, so it depends on which armies you want to play in regards to which books or PDFs you might need.
I too was excited for the launch of WH Old World, but what's the point?!?! Everything out of stock within 1 hour of going on pre-order. Just ridiculous.
It’s so frustrating isn’t it, they just can’t keep up with the demand right now, and are caught in a viscous cycle of releases and can never catch up. At least this stuff isn’t limited and will be back, but when who knows, and the excitement gets dampened.
Maybe they done a 4th and 5th Ed with Chaos where the Warriors and Daemons are all in one book when Daemons were more powerful backup units. Metal is back lol I remember all the frustration and getting angry with the old 4th and 5th Ed metal large minis trying to put them together without them falling apart again 😂. I was young at the time and pinning wasn't really an option for many 😂. When I see all those massive point armies I just think of the Bloat the game became lol.
I'm new to the channel and enjoyed your in depth video and you as a presenter, so I've subscribed :) I can see your reply to other comments and I think you are aware of the following, but will throw my opinion out there nevertheless... ... the purchase is "good value" compared to how much it would cost to buy individually. However, the phrase "even a bargain costs money" I think is very relevant here, and why this release is poor / could have been done better: I think they should have done the same as the 40k Leviathan box release last year. As someone who got the tyranid half of the Leviathan box for £65 (circa 800-900 point army) as a birthday/xmas gift, there's a number of benefits of this to compare with this release: 1) By buying the whole Leviathan box, you get a game in a box - 2 armies to play against each other for around £130 - you cannot do that with this Old World release. 2) Friends can go "halves" on the box to make it more affordable and get games. 3) More people can afford to buy half of a box (an army) for themselves, or as a gift for someone else, or ask for it as a gift for themselves - you cannot do that with this Old World release. In comparison to the Christmas boxes they release (one army for around £130) - I wanted to add to my Tyranids by buying the Xmas Tyranid box. It was a bargain as instead of costing the individual model cost of around £190, it "only" cost around £130. A big saving, but unfortunately too expensive for me, and I would guess many people in this COST OF LIVING CRISIS, where people are struggling to pay bills. I know GW cannot change the social economic situation, but they can adjust to it and make starter-type sets more affordable. Then they can add larger armies or products after the starter set. IMO what they should have done is similar to Leviathan - 2 armies for around £100-150. I would love to get back into Old World, as someone who grew up in the 90s on Warhammer Fantasy battle, however at this price mark i cannot. I will however be looking at buying trays that will allow me to use my Age of Sigmar units in formation :)
Thank you. 🙂 I’d have liked to see a two-player starter. I can only assume they’ve done some marketing exploration into what people do with starters, which is split, and looked at an olds target market and decided an army box might be better. But you’re right, that tactic doesn’t help with affordability.
Well, the clock has officially started for me. I have a sinking feeling that GW and it's investment - or rather, it's lack thereof - will push Fantasy into a second intentional grave. If - or more likely, when -they do, I can finally have the schizophrenic break I've always needed to push me into simply creating and propagating my own rank & flank gaming using the same methods GW used to establish itself all those years ago.
Great informative video Stuart. I won't be rushing into any pre-orders, and my general advice for others would continue to be don't pre-order if your afraid of missing it, but I do wish those who have decided too for the right reasons good luck. I've a rather large Kings of War project lined up for my fantasy fill this year but I will continue to be keeping an eye on this, particularly if there's an Empire release in the same vein as the Brets. and maybe even the Brets. themselves if that box does actually stick around. I'm still not convinced the rules will hook me for anything other than the odd casual game with a friend as I think rules have moved on so much and these mainly rehash the old rather than throw anything new or innovative in but that said I hope they hook a whole new generation of gamers into the world of rank and file gaming. Pricing as is you say what it is, and it deferrers for everyone based on what they can afford and think is value for them. Personally I still think it leans on the expensive side, but then it always has way back to the Citadel days so no real change there. In the grand scheme of the gameworshopverse it is reasonable "value" especially the starter boxes, the regiments and characters less so but again thats always been the case with this pricing model. It will be interesting to see what happens with the stock, I think quite a bit of it will sell out, but I think the big thing will be what sticks around and comes back in stock and how soon that happens. I'm less keen on the apparent news that retailers are getting very limited quantities, that seems to me that the potential popularity has been noticed and maybe stock is being held back for the direct webstore, it is what it is but its not great for all those FLGS what we love to support, and one of the reasons i think waiting and then picking up from your FLGS at retail is a good course of action.
Cheers James. Yeah I can’t really disagree with any of what you’ve said really, all very fair. I think most of it will sell out, just not sure if t will be 5 mins, 5 hours or 5 days. It’s all supposed to be main stock items, so it will come back, just how long before the factory can get it back. I think the metals might be the ones that go in and out of stock often, for MESBG they often did themselves in MTO deals, and I can see that happening. I’m sure Empire will get a similar release, and this year maybe, no idea when though (or if the rulebook will still come in the set).
It won’t let you on here. Have you used discord before? There’s a link in the video description, you can share it in the channels Discord server, it’s a very friendly place to chat hobby and share pictures of work.
The one thing which has me scratching my head - who is this game for? There is no two player starter set like in the old editions. The price is quite steep. And how different are the rules from previous editions? As I don't ever recall anyone saying you cannot play WHFB using the older rule sets. I still play 4th and 5th Ed defo my fav rule set as it's not too serious (which is one reason I left the game as it was hijacked but Meta gamers and competative players who sucked all fun out of the game with cut and paste armies which all looked the same and was all about the statistics - I don't care I just want too have fun and play with any unit I feel fit to play with regardless of they are not statistically amazing 😂). I can see the Old Guard buying the rulebooks as many will have their old armies - I still have the numerous old 4th and 5th Ed armies with some later miniatures (8th Ed). Buying the armies separately It seems way more expensive than say a two player starter as that way you get a feel for the two different armies esp if you never played with them before and then expand from there.
It’s marketed at the older gamer, the same or customer base they have for games like Heresy. Lots people will still play their old editions, and old armies, but I think what it will do is bring together some of the spread community into one single edition again, especially as more models become available enabling players to do armies they got around to before. Overall the commentary on the rules is that it’s very good, so I think that will draw us old types to it, and the return of miniatures (and some new) is the cherry on top. It will ever be like it was before during its peak, but it doesn’t need to be for them to run it this was as a specialist game.
@@MiniatureRealms you raised some good points and makes sense. Are the points and amounts of units smaller like some of the older editions or is it still bloat? As that was one of the things which killed it originally
@Mark-nh2hs It’s hard to tell about unit size this early on, it’s more driven by rules than points values per se. Early signs are the points are similar to 8th edition, and while there is encouragement in the rules to have a wide frontage, there’s less benefit for being deep, so I’m hoping that will mean more units under 30 strong than we saw in 8th. I’m hoping that events keep the points at 2k or below in the most part, as this helps with that as well. If they drift back up the the 2400/2500 levels we saw at the end of 8th, it might be tempting to add a character but also top up a couple of units to larger sizes as well.
@@MiniatureRealms I remember back in 4th and 5th Ed your army was quite small for the points - some varied though depending on points like Skaven and Orcs a d Goblins tend to have bigger armies due to cheap point sizes. Cos if the bloat returns it will just alienate new players again and the more negative competitive players will again sap the fun out of the game. I always preferred the smaller size armies easier to control and remember who's done what instead of the Bloat of 8th. I guess we have to wait and see what happens I guess. It will be interesting to see what old minis they release esp in the Empire as I never managed to get The foot knights of Reiksguard - those heavy armoured foot knights I loved the look off but wasn't collecting that army at that time lol.
Hi guys, what is the easiest way to check what sculpt is new and what is not? Where can I see the year they are from? I pretty much searched a lot of online stores and it doesn't seem they mention it or it is hidden somewhere to make it hard to find, please advice! Thanks
Most of the return stuff is old, but happy to help where I can. The articles about the old world leading up to release have a lot of info about what’s new and what’s returning.
@@MiniatureRealms Thanks, in the video you mentioned that the Knights on foot are new models so I thought that there might be easier way to check if this is mentioned anywhere. I completely forgot that this was mentioned in the articles, but if you know where I can check this out instead of asking on the net that will be great. I fully understand that this information is not always great for sales so there might not be present.
I don’t think they list it on their website, but we’re clear in the articles etc. For the Brets the Foot knights are new, so is the Pegasus Hero in the starter set, and the Pegasus BSB you can buy separately. They’re all plastic kits. Then after that there are some new resin miniatures. The Questing Knight on foot, the Damsel on Foot, Foot & Mounted BSB (in one pack), and Lady Elisse Duchaard (she and the foot knights are not yet released). The rest are all returning kits. Tomb Kings wise the new stuff is the Bone Dragon, a Tomb king on foot (both in starter). Then a few resin miniatures, a Tomb King, a BSB and the Bone Swarm. I think the rest is all old.
Looking forward to orc releases. It was my very first wargaming army back in the mid 90's. I'd love to recreate that old warband. The cynic in me, however, wonders how much of this was planned well in advance? Big companies like these plan years in advance. I do wonder if way back they planned to kill warhammer, let it lie rotting for several years and then bring it all back with a big nostalgia hit for big profits. It has worked... stock sold out already and most of my wargaming buddies have bought into these starter kits. I do wonder how long that nostalgia will last. So, I'll be careful putting my money to it...I'm still happy with 40k, AoS, Bolt Action and recently acquired Middle Earth (Christmas treat) and i'll continue to support GW through these. But i'll probably be tempted back into the old world fray with orc releases. Great coverage on this. Keep it up!
Thank you. I hope the Orc release won’t be too long, I’m sure it will be this year. There’s some very good interviews on Jordan Sorcery’s channel, check out the Alan Merrett interview for details on the ending of Warhammer. I’m sure they may have considered it might return at some point, but they don’t plan that far ahead. I think you can be pretty assured that they have a fully cycle planned for this game, the 9 factions announced, and possibly Kislev at least as well, maybe even Cathay as well (they will surprise us with something). I’d imagine it’s a 3-4 year plan at first, and then if it’s selling we’ll get a second edition. They’ve described it in the recent articles as a game similar to Horus Heresy. I think they’ve recognised that there is a market for older gamers, and yes nostalgia is part of that, but it’s a solid market they can make money from. It’s smaller than the 40K and AOS side, but it’s worth keeping gamers they may otherwise loose to other games.
Great job Stu covering off everything anyone would need to know about the launch and game in general. I personally think there is a lot to be positive about. Sure I can grumble a little about the high price we have to pay in Australia on a product that is already pretty expensive but really that isn't anything new and nobody is forcing you to use the official models etc. If you had a mate with the rules you could even pretty much get by without a copy of your own and absolute cheapskate level would be using cardboard counters for your army like they used to have in some of the Citadel journals...one from 1986 I believe had the Lichemaster, Krell, Skeletons, Zombies and a bunch of Skaven and Monks to fight a battle with. I would go so far as to say the amount of books they are releasing is actually really cool and a good thing as for those of us who would love to do a deep dive into the lore and rules you are really spoilt for choice. Even in relation to the old models if you think of it in terms that the game was previously cancelled and this is somewhat of a reset of that with the existing range being brought back into play with some new miniatures coming in to support each faction at their launch. If you kind of ignore the intervening years of cancellation it really isn't that big of a deal that they are the same models and once again as you mentioned there are plenty of alternative minis out there if you really can't stand the look of the models for your chosen faction because they look too "old". Just quietly I would love for the next years to come to be successful for the game and to have the chance of some legacy factions being brought back into play. Certainly Demons of Chaos will surely get a look in when Chaos surges for the siege of Praag. Hopefully there will be another two armies launched in the next 6 months which would allow the dust to settle on the initial launch and give them a boost in sales of the next two factions for more players to buy into it.
Thank you, and I have to agree with everything here. I like your point about the game being re-set with the old ranges, and i certainly think had the game not stopped then many of those would still be in production anyway. But as you rightly said, nobody is forced to use those models, and a large of number of people never did anyway.
Well at least I have one army I can play, High Elves…… my Skaven and Deamons of Khorne will have to wait until the fluff advances some in the Old World………. lol
After watching the battle report that GW published, I don't think I'll buy into the game. It looks like a great game, but I don't feel like there's anything really too new.
That’s fair enough, there’s plenty of rules that make it feel very much like old Warhammer, as much as they’ve said it’s new I think they’ve done a lot to bring back the ‘better liked’ parts of old editions. I’m watching the Mini Wargaming Battle report right now, have learnt loads more about how a real game might play.
Interested in some of the knights coming out as I can fit them in with the perilous quest campaign as I'm assembling both forces,might get the rule book to see how it plays,but happy to stick with pervious sets,interesting vid and shall keep an eye on your progress and enjoyment.
I wonder about the legacy (Renegade) factions only because looking at the release notes I noticed a statement saying that the renegade factions would not be legal for tournament play. I had been mulling over which army I would dust off and begin playing again and had settled on dark elves but perhaps I should choose something else. I am not really a tournament player but I do want the option open in case official games open in my area.
That’s the one thing that’s really disappointing to me so far, I feel that was unnecessary, we understood they wouldn’t be supporting them, but sad to see them cut out of official tournaments. I honestly wouldn’t worry too much though, I can’t see independent tournaments sticking to that, so we’re taking events at Warhammer World, and a couple of GTs and big US conventions each year. Now of course if that’s where you’re likely to play, then that’s more difficult. They truly have become ‘Renegade’ factions now, Val and Rob got it spot on 😂
Brilliant video mate, i hope you will be doing a 'introduction' into the old world once you get your hands on the books etc. As a new comer to old world (Was only following the lore of the hobby back when it was still being run) this was incredibly informative and i look forward to more from you.
I hope the releases this year will keep pace with my pay checks and makes sense not to drop all factions in the store at once, gives time for people who are interested in multiple armies to collect what they want, I’m more collector/painter than a player these days anyway but may get back in at some point
Nice to have a round up of state of play so far, that is informative and not at the extremes of “fanboy” or “doom merchant” at the ends of the spectrum. Stock levels always interesting, this was out over night and this morning had an email from element warning of low stock levels. 😂 Interested to see how things develop, planning on buying some books for a good read before committing to figures. It’s up against Warmachine and Starwars Legion in the “28”mm gaming slot. Both are good games so it’s up against stiff completion for painting and gaming time.
@MiniatureRealms Currently I have decided to attempt to pick up the books. A Derby wargamer who shall remain nameless has been encouraging my curiosity.🤣
Good breakdown mate 👍 hope people find it handy. Honestly I was fairly skeptical about tOW around and before Christmas but I must admit I got caught up with the hype and a bit of hope after seeing the box reveal. I didn't really need or want to start a Tomb Kings army atm but the reveal gave me an inkling to get one assuming the price was right. But that lasted about a day until I saw the prices. Honestly I actually like most of the old models and sculpts (nostalgia most likely) but not at those prices personally. Particularly when I can get 3rd party or 3d prints of equal or better quality for cheaper and with more quantity. Even if it somehow tOW bottoms out I would say there would be renewed interest in earlier editions. Mainly judging from personal experience with people asking about and getting into 6th edition locally. So there's a backup for me at least 😂 All that being said I'm fairly certain it will sell out the initial preorder, the only question is time. Say what you want about GW but they know the prices their usual and perhaps "nostalgia customers" will buy at. In regards to lore I would have probably been interested maybe 15-20 years ago but I feel it's been a long time since GW has been any good in regards to stories and world events so I've come to see Warhammer Fantasy as just a setting instead of a narrative as I suppose it kind of was all along or originally from a certain point of view. Upon coming back to the hobby I guess I was just unimpressed with the direction of 40k and couldn't get into AoS. Guess I'm just stuck in the era I entered. Not much I can do about that. I do have to admit the whole 'Good vs Evil' thing stuck in my craw more than it should perhaps. I am however very hopeful and extremely interested in/excited about the rules. Looking forward to giving them a go with my mates one way or another. I enjoyed the mini wargaming battle report and look forward to seeing other people try it out. In particular as an Empire man I'm dying to see gun lines and more importantly blackpowder artillery in action. I can't wait to play personally.
Thank you 🙂 I think you’ve got a very sensible approach, decided the models are not tight in value for you and going for the 3d printing option. I’m a bit like you with the modern 40K and AOS lore, much prefer what I grew up with (or heresy which feels like old lore). I definitely like this as a setting as well, and hoping the lore reminds me of old fantasy rather than the newer stuff.
@@MiniatureRealms I truly hope I'm proven wrong about the lore. Only time will tell and at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference really. I noticed around 10am that the preorders sold out almost immediately in two stores I normally frequent, as was expected imo. Although when I asked the lad I normally deal with he said they got "feck all stock" his words not mine. Said he couldn't tell me how much unfortunately. I also got an email from Element games saying "We are disappointed to report that stock allocations are incredibly low for all products in this release. We won’t be able to offer it for online sale and will have very limited stock in our physical stores. We have been made aware that most of the products are planned to be restocked in the future but haven’t yet been given a firm date." Disappointing but unsurprising that GW is being very cautious with this release and testing the waters more so than anything else. Will be interesting to see how it goes from here personally.
Im not sure how anyone can complain about anything...we all wanted Warhammer Fantasy back...now we are getting it why the f**k is everyone complaining about every decision gw have made?...if you dont like the decisions then dont buy it. People are idiots. Just to clarify this comment isnt directed at you...love your videos mate! 😊
Yeah, we bought all the army books, back in the day. I’m actually really happy with how they’re releasing the models and books. It’s more manageable for me financially.
Thanks for the informative vid, it is very much appreciated! I have quit the hobby around the time of 6th edtion, but I continued to take interest in the setting throughout the intervening 20 years (yikes!) and absolutely loved what Creative Assembly did to the IP with TWW. I am still on the fence, seeing as GW seems to be purely profit-driven these days and I would not put it past them to drop the support for WFB/Old World and cut their loses as soon as the financial reports start coming in. With that said, nostalgia is still strong in this one.
I think you’re safe enough, they will have at least a 3-4 year release cycle planned in, and unless it tanks there will be another edition as well. I think it will at the very least get two editions and 8 years.
Hi Stuart. Thanks for the vid, its so nice to watch something without all the attached negativity that usually comes with Warhammer posts. (Why, why, why?). I've jumped in and pre-ordered the two army list books and the Bret booklet. My games of old were Dark Elves and the 3 armies of Chaos. So I'm pretty keen to see what they will look like in the 'new' Old World. I like what I have seen of the rules so far. The one missing aspect from the previews has been an article on how terrain rules will work. Will they be like 8th ed. or will we see more of a return to the glory days of 6th/7th Ed's? I hope for the later. I'm not bothered about pricing. I can't afford to buy everything I want as there is soooo much good stuff out there for our hobby, I cant keep up with it anyway. And GW has never been a cheap hobby, so nothing new there. So why sweat over it? I personally aren't buzzed by the look of the Bretonnian range, with the exception of the Pegasus Knights, so if I ever go the Bretonnian way I may end up using Fire Forge models or the like. I've never been to a Tourny, and Warhammer World is half a world away to me (I'm in New Zealand), and if someone wants to ban me from using certain model brands then I guess we won't be playing together any time soon. Their loss. I'm not bothered about the Legacy factions thing either. If the (FREE) pdf rules balance with the army list books at release then I will be stoked. Game, set and match! But I suspect the odd legacy army to pop in from time to time once the Core Nine are all out. It would only take a White Dwarf article with a Dark Elf Corsairs raid or maybe Wargames Illustrated might put something out one day.. Imagination is limitless, spoon-feeding is not for me. Happy gaming everyone, Ben aka nzdarkelf
I love your approach to it, wish a few more people were as relaxed about it. I’m looking forward to the rules myself, been watching the Mini Wargaming Battle report, I can recommend it for a decent idea on the rules.
Thanks for this I’ve found it really difficult to gather what’s actually happening across the various tidbits released over the last few years. I think they seem to be doing this release pretty well. There will always be critics though!
I've been out of the hobby for 10 years. I'll be getting back into it soon tho. I'm just scared that it won't do well & get canceled after 2 or 3 years. Then there's the availability of the minis. I won't be able to pre-order the launch boxes because I'm moving into a new apartment. If the launch boxes are still available in a few months, I'll get both of them. Just waiting a few months to see how this plays out. I'll either go with The Old World or Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings & First Blood. I can't afford to play both.
Never a bad idea to wait and see how it pans out. I think by summer you will have a good idea how it’s going, but I think you’re safe that it won’t get canned in 2-3 years, I imagine releases are planning in and being worked on beyond that.
Me and a ton of fans of fantasy I've talked to probably won't be playing. Game seems an actual lot like a pump and dump. Some of the most popular factions including all my favorite are just not gonna be supported. The new article says the won't even be tournament legal so what's the point? They couldn't even be bothered to port some AOS models over to update models lines. Wow I can't wait to buy 100 25 year old tomb king skeletons. The rules are efine from what I've seen but they spent 4 years to give us simplified 5th or 6th? Come on now what are we doing? I love those but this all seems like excuses and laziness.
Yep I get that it won’t be to everyone’s taste, I don’t think they have plans to dump it though, but only time will tell. I think there’s more to the lack of some factions being used, it’s not a matter of being too lazy to move stuff over, I don’t think they’ve been allowed to by the main studio. Some lines are seen as AOS ‘assets’ now, especially ones that have been updated or have newer sculpts. You watch as Chaos Warriors are released, it will be the old sculpts (and people will just buy the new ones). There’s a deliberate ploy to split the ranges, and TOW get the old stuff. I don’t think the TOW would be making those choices if they didn’t have to. It’s a shame, seems like a waste of resources. I completely agree that it’s poor that the legacy armies are not tournament legal (well at official ones anyway, doubt independents will follow that), I don’t feel like that was needed. I quite like the look of the rules, but each edition has its fans. So I actually agree with some of your points, but don’t think laziness has much to do with it, the frustrating decisions are down to other things.
It’s interesting to see people unhappy with the old sculpts coming back. I’m actually glad to see them because they’re like old friends. 😁
It’s been a crazy mix of emotions from people, quite interesting to observe.
If anything I'm gutted the sculpts aren't old enough! I'm all about 4th Ed but the Wood Elf range will clearly be the one from the 00s
I'd argue the issue is old models with new prices. Those sprues are sparse compared to new stuff but carry a similar price tag. Bad lines from what I've seen on unboxings too.
@@Noveltyuk Yeah, the topic priple really try to avoid or pass off as insignificant.
If it was new sculpts...
Thank you for the explanation! I would have preferred if GW had not included the rule book in the starter kits, as it could make the boxes cheaper and for those people like me who intend to buy both will end up with two books. I understand why they have done it, but making sets cheaper and buying the rule book separately would have been better.
That’s a good point, I’m hoping when they release further factions this year they do the same points army (1250) but leave the books out.
There will be a keen secondhand market for those spare books- could get a ~£30 return on your army box.
The TK box's price is kinda ridiculous since most of those models in it are 20+ years old, maybe older in the case of the horses if they didn't redo those.
@@Nobleshieldif you don't want it. Dont buy it.
It is a bit of a shame really isn’t it. Future boxes will be a little painful if everyone of them has the rulebook. Currently I’m planning on selling the second book I’ll have but that is going to be increasingly more difficult if I end up with a thousand of them
I remeber playing when the game first came out but with GW seeming to just be seeing if there is a bit more coin to be squeezed out of us I am sorry but I will stick with conquest a far more fleshed out game better models more comitment by Para Bellum to there game do not trust GW to stick with it
I’ve never looked that closely at Conquest, but I may take look one day. Hope you’re well mate.
I used to play warhammer when i was 9, now i am almost 24, i love this game with all my hearth but sadly even if now i have a work i don't think that i will buy the boxes or new troops... I have a old daemon army and i will look forward to play them again but i would have loved to try the tomb kings, unfortunatly i did some research and between the box,the manuals, the colours to paint them, the brushes, the spray, the citadel box to hold them and at least one extra unit to get close to 1500 points it would cost me near 800 euros... Hope they fix those prices, i know that hobbies like this are not for everyone but i remember buying boxes with 80 models at 70 euros years ago, now everything sounds too expensive even with old models.
It’s really difficult, especially in current times financially. I think the prices of the models haven’t really gone up with inflation, but the new models can be expensive. Maybe wait for them to become cheaper second hand, build up an army slowly and use alternative models.
@@MiniatureRealms yes, anyway i hope they really make it with this new edition and i hope that your channel really make it, continue with this fantastic work sir
Those Bretonians are going to make a beautiful Kings of War army
I really need to try KoW one day, always hear good things .
I want to be enthusiastic about being able to get Brettonian miniatures but I have zero faith supply will be there and the prices already seem to be very high for old models. I also have zero faith and I really do mean zero faith that this game will get the proper support it needs and I have a deep seeded feeling that it will be gone within a year or two. I just have absolutely no faith in this unfortunately. I think I will just hold fast and wait until later in the year or just not get any of the miniatures at all.
That’s fair enough, I think it will stick around longer than you think, but only time will tell if it makes a second edition.
I checked the price for the starter box and my fears were immediately rationalized. The cost is $255 for the starter box. I knew they were going to price people out of it from the get go. Honestly Stuart I am more than happy to just stick with 15mm historical miniatures where I am not beholden to the whims of any one company.
Maybe down the road I will see about the Old World stuff but honestly id rather buy some hex and counter wargames and historical miniatures over one box of GW stuff. Alas it is not for me but more power to anyone who wants to pay extortion fees.
Thinking about it its probably a better option to get a 3d printer and print similar style miniatures or even use historical miniatures.
If you got the box set I look forward to seeing those pegasus knights being painted! @@MiniatureRealms
My childhood is coming back, we played it so much. It’s the one and true wargame. Just enjoy it and be happy to feel it
Absolutely 🙂
When thinking about value keep in mind how much people invested the last time around with fantasy only to have the game destroyed. Not being salty just practical.
Very true, but in balance GW never took back peoples armies and rules when they ended the game. It was incredibly sad, and it will be again if this game doesn’t work out. But in terms of a value proposition, it’s completely fair to include that in your personal reasons for deciding if a return to the game is worth it or not.
@@MiniatureRealms well my main issue was they never fixed the bloat that armies were facing in 8th. I play warhammer armies project with my friends and enjoy it to this day.I hope those that excited for old world get a great game, I just have tempered expectations. Cheers.
Oh for sure, and WAP is still there to enjoy as well, and I think many people will choose
It over TOW.
On the topic of value, if I can buy a 3d printer buy a shady stl with higher quality as decade old wh sculpts for 10 bucks, print a 1000 point army and then throw the printer away and end up ! cheaper ! than warhammers army box, then I quesiton this "value".
Of course its cheaper by design to buy an overpriced bundle vs overpriced unit boxes seperately.
Doesnt make 5.5 euro per plastic mini not exorbitantly overpriced when considering the amount you need to fill such an army for it to be playable. This is plastic, not crack.
My comment on pricing is only in relation to GW prices in general. GW is definitely expensive, and 3d printing is a cheaper option for sure (I 3d print as well). That’s the think with value, it works differently for everyone, and it’s entirely valid to compare GW pricing to printing your own armies when making your own decision on whether to buy or not.
Booooo, if you can't do it right don't do it at all. I'll buy the rule book for sure and get 3d prints or mantic. Many thanks.
That’s totally fair
do you think dogs of war will have some sense of a army list?
I don’t think so, and I’m sure they’ve said it won’t somewhere. However the ‘Mercenaries’ rule suggests something, especially as there’s an ‘Allies’ rule as well.
I just bought into gloomspite gitz and am halfway an 2k army. As much as i want to start old world, i dont have the time and money 😢
The bretonnia box also has to much infantry for my taste
That’s fair enough, I definitely have more projects than it’s healthy sometimes, both with time and money.
The box probably has the right balance with infantry for the new rules, the standard army list requires basic troops now, only the errantry list in the Arcane Journal allows all Cav.
My biggest fear is GW gets a little greedy with prices and Old World is dead before it even starts a lot of ppl already have these minis so no need to buy old sculpts …. We will see
I think a lot of people will print armies and use alternative models as well. I’m hoping the rules are good enough to forge a good community, don’t mind what models they use really.
Thanks for the info. Personally looking forward to High Elves coming back.
It should be an exciting year finding out what we get for the other factions
I heard that 3 metal Bretonnian Knights are going to be $60. That's reason enough for me not to get involved.
I’m avoiding the old metals as much as possible I think.
Warhammer Fantasy will always have a place in my heart. After the DeAgostini LOTR magazines, Warhammer Fantasy was my lead into tabletop wargaming.
However, I cannot see GW putting a lot of effort into this beyond a year or two of hype (3 year cycle on all their current games?) - their entire business model is for new gamers, and not 'rewarding' existing ones. And since they killed the Old World, there have just emerged better, and more flexible and fun rank and flank fantasy games that will serve as an exit point for new players entering the genre. It will depend on how they support it, but I am not sure there is that much of a driver from GW for the Old World. Old sculpts from 20 years ago (some are new granted) and the limited print run of the starter sets suggests this is a low-effort line (although...GW print/production lines yeesh), and not the return of a major game for them, I agree. I think this means its likely to not meet a lot of excited expectations because of that. Ah, the heady days of 20 years ago - 40K, WFB, LOTR on main studio releases *nostalgic sigh*
There has always been a slight suspicion for me about the timing of the Old World announcement which appeared just when Kings of War 3rd edition was announced (rank and flank fantasy battles which picked up a lot of former Warhammer fantasy gamers when the End Times happened). Now GW vs Mantic is the 800lb Gorilla to the 20lb yappy Dachshund, but it was still a wierd timing for a game not due out for almost half a decade from announcement (even with the 'Vid happening, at launch it was years away).
All that aside, I genuinely hope I am wrong, and that returning and new WFB players get a lot of joy out of it. I'm a bit out of GW's gravity well for the foreseeable though.
Final thought - maybe re-release of older WFB Black library series too because of it though?
I think it will be better supported than you imagine, but yes it’s definitely not a main line game anymore, and there will be a big difference compared to those days.
The starter sets were limited runs like some game, just sold out, they are going to be restocked. So that’s a good thing at least.
They’ve brought back a couple of omnibus novels, so I think (hope) we could see a few more.
I bought the goodie books because I've already got Brets, Empire, Dwarfes, Elves, and Orcses. I got enough miniatures for now.
I’ve done similar, have bought way too many TK & Brets this year to need the boxes.
Sorry Stu. Im just still trying to get my chin off the floor. Ive looked at what I would want for Bretonnia. Im hitting the £576 mark which is just uterly insane. £53 just for the standard bearer kit. £36 for the Grail Knights and you ideally would at least want 9 for a unit. This pricing I still havent got to include Questing Knights , Trebuchet or that new Enchantress.... As much as I ove the game this is just way out of my budget which I thought was a healthy budget. I invested both French and British in Napoleoninc Epic which was a big investment but this is just nuts...😊
Oh yeah it’s got the potential be crazy expensive. That’s not the only way to do it though. I’m going to be making my Grail and Questing knights from Knights of the Realms, and spare bits from the Foot knights kit when it comes out. So I get you, but you can get a 2k list and books for much cheaper.
All the interesting factions aren't in it. And Lore can't be the reason - because they make that up. It's because they don't want to produce the two miniatures it takes to be supporting those factions.
Yep I agree the lore has been fit around the decision
Where is that information from, that the armybook will be available as free PDF download? Or just for those factions, that are not included? I can´t believe it. Since today, you can preorder "the good" and "the bad" armybook for 40 €. Should I wait?
The information about the free pdf army lists is in a number of the articles. The free lists will only be for the ‘Legacy’ factions though, not all, so it depends on which armies you want to play in regards to which books or PDFs you might need.
Battle Pilgrims! Metal! Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy! Never collected Bretonnians before. This is just great.
They are lovely old sculpts, I’m going a different route for mine, but I do like the old ones as well .
I too was excited for the launch of WH Old World, but what's the point?!?! Everything out of stock within 1 hour of going on pre-order. Just ridiculous.
It’s so frustrating isn’t it, they just can’t keep up with the demand right now, and are caught in a viscous cycle of releases and can never catch up. At least this stuff isn’t limited and will be back, but when who knows, and the excitement gets dampened.
Maybe they done a 4th and 5th Ed with Chaos where the Warriors and Daemons are all in one book when Daemons were more powerful backup units.
Metal is back lol I remember all the frustration and getting angry with the old 4th and 5th Ed metal large minis trying to put them together without them falling apart again 😂. I was young at the time and pinning wasn't really an option for many 😂.
When I see all those massive point armies I just think of the Bloat the game became lol.
I never used to pin back then either, god knows how many times the wings fell of my wood elf eagle 😂
I just hope we will see a rerelease of the much missed plastic Orc Boar Boyz set
I think there’s a pretty good chance we will
I'm new to the channel and enjoyed your in depth video and you as a presenter, so I've subscribed :)
I can see your reply to other comments and I think you are aware of the following, but will throw my opinion out there nevertheless...
... the purchase is "good value" compared to how much it would cost to buy individually. However, the phrase "even a bargain costs money" I think is very relevant here, and why this release is poor / could have been done better:
I think they should have done the same as the 40k Leviathan box release last year. As someone who got the tyranid half of the Leviathan box for £65 (circa 800-900 point army) as a birthday/xmas gift, there's a number of benefits of this to compare with this release:
1) By buying the whole Leviathan box, you get a game in a box - 2 armies to play against each other for around £130 - you cannot do that with this Old World release.
2) Friends can go "halves" on the box to make it more affordable and get games.
3) More people can afford to buy half of a box (an army) for themselves, or as a gift for someone else, or ask for it as a gift for themselves - you cannot do that with this Old World release.
In comparison to the Christmas boxes they release (one army for around £130) - I wanted to add to my Tyranids by buying the Xmas Tyranid box. It was a bargain as instead of costing the individual model cost of around £190, it "only" cost around £130. A big saving, but unfortunately too expensive for me, and I would guess many people in this COST OF LIVING CRISIS, where people are struggling to pay bills.
I know GW cannot change the social economic situation, but they can adjust to it and make starter-type sets more affordable. Then they can add larger armies or products after the starter set.
IMO what they should have done is similar to Leviathan - 2 armies for around £100-150.
I would love to get back into Old World, as someone who grew up in the 90s on Warhammer Fantasy battle, however at this price mark i cannot. I will however be looking at buying trays that will allow me to use my Age of Sigmar units in formation :)
Thank you. 🙂
I’d have liked to see a two-player starter. I can only assume they’ve done some marketing exploration into what people do with starters, which is split, and looked at an olds target market and decided an army box might be better. But you’re right, that tactic doesn’t help with affordability.
Well, the clock has officially started for me. I have a sinking feeling that GW and it's investment - or rather, it's lack thereof - will push Fantasy into a second intentional grave. If - or more likely, when -they do, I can finally have the schizophrenic break I've always needed to push me into simply creating and propagating my own rank & flank gaming using the same methods GW used to establish itself all those years ago.
I think it might stay around a little yet as a game
at least we will now get fantasy pc games and not aos. Square basses suck and ofc they dint bother to make something interesting with them
I think Total War has been successful for a while
Awesome vid, thanks for the reliable content
Thank you 😊
Skaven or strike !
The Skaven are in my TOW (just not at WHW events 😂).
Great informative video Stuart. I won't be rushing into any pre-orders, and my general advice for others would continue to be don't pre-order if your afraid of missing it, but I do wish those who have decided too for the right reasons good luck.
I've a rather large Kings of War project lined up for my fantasy fill this year but I will continue to be keeping an eye on this, particularly if there's an Empire release in the same vein as the Brets. and maybe even the Brets. themselves if that box does actually stick around. I'm still not convinced the rules will hook me for anything other than the odd casual game with a friend as I think rules have moved on so much and these mainly rehash the old rather than throw anything new or innovative in but that said I hope they hook a whole new generation of gamers into the world of rank and file gaming.
Pricing as is you say what it is, and it deferrers for everyone based on what they can afford and think is value for them. Personally I still think it leans on the expensive side, but then it always has way back to the Citadel days so no real change there. In the grand scheme of the gameworshopverse it is reasonable "value" especially the starter boxes, the regiments and characters less so but again thats always been the case with this pricing model.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the stock, I think quite a bit of it will sell out, but I think the big thing will be what sticks around and comes back in stock and how soon that happens. I'm less keen on the apparent news that retailers are getting very limited quantities, that seems to me that the potential popularity has been noticed and maybe stock is being held back for the direct webstore, it is what it is but its not great for all those FLGS what we love to support, and one of the reasons i think waiting and then picking up from your FLGS at retail is a good course of action.
Cheers James. Yeah I can’t really disagree with any of what you’ve said really, all very fair.
I think most of it will sell out, just not sure if t will be 5 mins, 5 hours or 5 days. It’s all supposed to be main stock items, so it will come back, just how long before the factory can get it back. I think the metals might be the ones that go in and out of stock often, for MESBG they often did themselves in MTO deals, and I can see that happening.
I’m sure Empire will get a similar release, and this year maybe, no idea when though (or if the rulebook will still come in the set).
I will order the Bretonian foot Paladin with the antlers and I’m not even a Bret player.
Fuckin beautiful.
It’s a lovely model, one I’m hoping to get and paint and paint very soon.
The sneak peek was the inspiration for me to kit bash my own. Not nearly as good but not bad either.
That’s awesome, I’d love to see what you did.
I’d love to but can’t copy/paste the image for some reason.
It won’t let you on here. Have you used discord before? There’s a link in the video description, you can share it in the channels Discord server, it’s a very friendly place to chat hobby and share pictures of work.
Love the new models, but where is my new Hippogryph model!?
After doing my expensive conversion part of me is relieved to see they didn’t do one 😅😂
Loved that conversion you did :)
@@MiniatureRealms
The one thing which has me scratching my head - who is this game for? There is no two player starter set like in the old editions. The price is quite steep. And how different are the rules from previous editions? As I don't ever recall anyone saying you cannot play WHFB using the older rule sets. I still play 4th and 5th Ed defo my fav rule set as it's not too serious (which is one reason I left the game as it was hijacked but Meta gamers and competative players who sucked all fun out of the game with cut and paste armies which all looked the same and was all about the statistics - I don't care I just want too have fun and play with any unit I feel fit to play with regardless of they are not statistically amazing 😂).
I can see the Old Guard buying the rulebooks as many will have their old armies - I still have the numerous old 4th and 5th Ed armies with some later miniatures (8th Ed). Buying the armies separately It seems way more expensive than say a two player starter as that way you get a feel for the two different armies esp if you never played with them before and then expand from there.
It’s marketed at the older gamer, the same or customer base they have for games like Heresy. Lots people will still play their old editions, and old armies, but I think what it will do is bring together some of the spread community into one single edition again, especially as more models become available enabling players to do armies they got around to before.
Overall the commentary on the rules is that it’s very good, so I think that will draw us old types to it, and the return of miniatures (and some new) is the cherry on top. It will ever be like it was before during its peak, but it doesn’t need to be for them to run it this was as a specialist game.
@@MiniatureRealms you raised some good points and makes sense. Are the points and amounts of units smaller like some of the older editions or is it still bloat? As that was one of the things which killed it originally
@Mark-nh2hs It’s hard to tell about unit size this early on, it’s more driven by rules than points values per se. Early signs are the points are similar to 8th edition, and while there is encouragement in the rules to have a wide frontage, there’s less benefit for being deep, so I’m hoping that will mean more units under 30 strong than we saw in 8th.
I’m hoping that events keep the points at 2k or below in the most part, as this helps with that as well. If they drift back up the the 2400/2500 levels we saw at the end of 8th, it might be tempting to add a character but also top up a couple of units to larger sizes as well.
@@MiniatureRealms I remember back in 4th and 5th Ed your army was quite small for the points - some varied though depending on points like Skaven and Orcs a d Goblins tend to have bigger armies due to cheap point sizes. Cos if the bloat returns it will just alienate new players again and the more negative competitive players will again sap the fun out of the game. I always preferred the smaller size armies easier to control and remember who's done what instead of the Bloat of 8th. I guess we have to wait and see what happens I guess. It will be interesting to see what old minis they release esp in the Empire as I never managed to get The foot knights of Reiksguard - those heavy armoured foot knights I loved the look off but wasn't collecting that army at that time lol.
Hi guys, what is the easiest way to check what sculpt is new and what is not? Where can I see the year they are from? I pretty much searched a lot of online stores and it doesn't seem they mention it or it is hidden somewhere to make it hard to find, please advice! Thanks
Most of the return stuff is old, but happy to help where I can. The articles about the old world leading up to release have a lot of info about what’s new and what’s returning.
@@MiniatureRealms Thanks, in the video you mentioned that the Knights on foot are new models so I thought that there might be easier way to check if this is mentioned anywhere. I completely forgot that this was mentioned in the articles, but if you know where I can check this out instead of asking on the net that will be great. I fully understand that this information is not always great for sales so there might not be present.
I don’t think they list it on their website, but we’re clear in the articles etc.
For the Brets the Foot knights are new, so is the Pegasus Hero in the starter set, and the Pegasus BSB you can buy separately. They’re all plastic kits.
Then after that there are some new resin miniatures. The Questing Knight on foot, the Damsel on Foot, Foot & Mounted BSB (in one pack), and Lady Elisse Duchaard (she and the foot knights are not yet released). The rest are all returning kits.
Tomb Kings wise the new stuff is the Bone Dragon, a Tomb king on foot (both in starter). Then a few resin miniatures, a Tomb King, a BSB and the Bone Swarm. I think the rest is all old.
Good review. Thanks.
Thank you
Looking forward to orc releases. It was my very first wargaming army back in the mid 90's. I'd love to recreate that old warband.
The cynic in me, however, wonders how much of this was planned well in advance? Big companies like these plan years in advance. I do wonder if way back they planned to kill warhammer, let it lie rotting for several years and then bring it all back with a big nostalgia hit for big profits. It has worked... stock sold out already and most of my wargaming buddies have bought into these starter kits. I do wonder how long that nostalgia will last.
So, I'll be careful putting my money to it...I'm still happy with 40k, AoS, Bolt Action and recently acquired Middle Earth (Christmas treat) and i'll continue to support GW through these.
But i'll probably be tempted back into the old world fray with orc releases.
Great coverage on this. Keep it up!
Thank you.
I hope the Orc release won’t be too long, I’m sure it will be this year.
There’s some very good interviews on Jordan Sorcery’s channel, check out the Alan Merrett interview for details on the ending of Warhammer. I’m sure they may have considered it might return at some point, but they don’t plan that far ahead. I think you can be pretty assured that they have a fully cycle planned for this game, the 9 factions announced, and possibly Kislev at least as well, maybe even Cathay as well (they will surprise us with something). I’d imagine it’s a 3-4 year plan at first, and then if it’s selling we’ll get a second edition. They’ve described it in the recent articles as a game similar to Horus Heresy.
I think they’ve recognised that there is a market for older gamers, and yes nostalgia is part of that, but it’s a solid market they can make money from. It’s smaller than the 40K and AOS side, but it’s worth keeping gamers they may otherwise loose to other games.
God damn that was a heartfelt intro. High five man. Let's ride!
Cheers dude
Reikland? ;) lol
They sold out 😂
Great job Stu covering off everything anyone would need to know about the launch and game in general. I personally think there is a lot to be positive about. Sure I can grumble a little about the high price we have to pay in Australia on a product that is already pretty expensive but really that isn't anything new and nobody is forcing you to use the official models etc. If you had a mate with the rules you could even pretty much get by without a copy of your own and absolute cheapskate level would be using cardboard counters for your army like they used to have in some of the Citadel journals...one from 1986 I believe had the Lichemaster, Krell, Skeletons, Zombies and a bunch of Skaven and Monks to fight a battle with.
I would go so far as to say the amount of books they are releasing is actually really cool and a good thing as for those of us who would love to do a deep dive into the lore and rules you are really spoilt for choice.
Even in relation to the old models if you think of it in terms that the game was previously cancelled and this is somewhat of a reset of that with the existing range being brought back into play with some new miniatures coming in to support each faction at their launch. If you kind of ignore the intervening years of cancellation it really isn't that big of a deal that they are the same models and once again as you mentioned there are plenty of alternative minis out there if you really can't stand the look of the models for your chosen faction because they look too "old".
Just quietly I would love for the next years to come to be successful for the game and to have the chance of some legacy factions being brought back into play. Certainly Demons of Chaos will surely get a look in when Chaos surges for the siege of Praag.
Hopefully there will be another two armies launched in the next 6 months which would allow the dust to settle on the initial launch and give them a boost in sales of the next two factions for more players to buy into it.
Thank you, and I have to agree with everything here. I like your point about the game being re-set with the old ranges, and i certainly think had the game not stopped then many of those would still be in production anyway. But as you rightly said, nobody is forced to use those models, and a large of number of people never did anyway.
Well at least I have one army I can play, High Elves…… my Skaven and Deamons of Khorne will have to wait until the fluff advances some in the Old World………. lol
Still play them, but yes the High Elves might be your best bet for a while.
After watching the battle report that GW published, I don't think I'll buy into the game.
It looks like a great game, but I don't feel like there's anything really too new.
That’s fair enough, there’s plenty of rules that make it feel very much like old Warhammer, as much as they’ve said it’s new I think they’ve done a lot to bring back the ‘better liked’ parts of old editions.
I’m watching the Mini Wargaming Battle report right now, have learnt loads more about how a real game might play.
Interested in some of the knights coming out as I can fit them in with the perilous quest campaign as I'm assembling both forces,might get the rule book to see how it plays,but happy to stick with pervious sets,interesting vid and shall keep an eye on your progress and enjoyment.
Thank you 🙂
I’ve never been a player, just a painter, used to love the fantasy stuff when I was a kid, can’t wait to paint some knights, orcs & vampires :o
Me as well, can’t wait to get hold of some of the new models.
I wonder about the legacy (Renegade) factions only because looking at the release notes I noticed a statement saying that the renegade factions would not be legal for tournament play. I had been mulling over which army I would dust off and begin playing again and had settled on dark elves but perhaps I should choose something else. I am not really a tournament player but I do want the option open in case official games open in my area.
That’s the one thing that’s really disappointing to me so far, I feel that was unnecessary, we understood they wouldn’t be supporting them, but sad to see them cut out of official tournaments. I honestly wouldn’t worry too much though, I can’t see independent tournaments sticking to that, so we’re taking events at Warhammer World, and a couple of GTs and big US conventions each year. Now of course if that’s where you’re likely to play, then that’s more difficult.
They truly have become ‘Renegade’ factions now, Val and Rob got it spot on 😂
Brilliant video mate, i hope you will be doing a 'introduction' into the old world once you get your hands on the books etc. As a new comer to old world (Was only following the lore of the hobby back when it was still being run) this was incredibly informative and i look forward to more from you.
Thank you 😊 I’ll definitely be planning on loads of content going forward.
Thanks for the video! Youre doing a great job ad i jope your channel gets totally massive!
Thank you that’s really kind 😊
I hope the releases this year will keep pace with my pay checks and makes sense not to drop all factions in the store at once, gives time for people who are interested in multiple armies to collect what they want, I’m more collector/painter than a player these days anyway but may get back in at some point
I think the releases will be spread out, as for keeping pace with pay checks, ill keep my fingers crossed for you
Your enthusiasm almost makes me want to buy into this game system but I'm staring at a life time of historicals to paint!
😂 I know that feeling
Nice to have a round up of state of play so far, that is informative and not at the extremes of “fanboy” or “doom merchant” at the ends of the spectrum. Stock levels always interesting, this was out over night and this morning had an email from element warning of low stock levels. 😂 Interested to see how things develop, planning on buying some books for a good read before committing to figures. It’s up against Warmachine and Starwars Legion in the “28”mm gaming slot. Both are good games so it’s up against stiff completion for painting and gaming time.
That’s very understandable, it’s not going anywhere for a while either, you will have plenty of time to decide if you want to jump in at some point.
@MiniatureRealms Currently I have decided to attempt to pick up the books. A Derby wargamer who shall remain nameless has been encouraging my curiosity.🤣
Good breakdown mate 👍 hope people find it handy.
Honestly I was fairly skeptical about tOW around and before Christmas but I must admit I got caught up with the hype and a bit of hope after seeing the box reveal. I didn't really need or want to start a Tomb Kings army atm but the reveal gave me an inkling to get one assuming the price was right. But that lasted about a day until I saw the prices.
Honestly I actually like most of the old models and sculpts (nostalgia most likely) but not at those prices personally. Particularly when I can get 3rd party or 3d prints of equal or better quality for cheaper and with more quantity.
Even if it somehow tOW bottoms out I would say there would be renewed interest in earlier editions. Mainly judging from personal experience with people asking about and getting into 6th edition locally. So there's a backup for me at least 😂
All that being said I'm fairly certain it will sell out the initial preorder, the only question is time.
Say what you want about GW but they know the prices their usual and perhaps "nostalgia customers" will buy at.
In regards to lore I would have probably been interested maybe 15-20 years ago but I feel it's been a long time since GW has been any good in regards to stories and world events so I've come to see Warhammer Fantasy as just a setting instead of a narrative as I suppose it kind of was all along or originally from a certain point of view.
Upon coming back to the hobby I guess I was just unimpressed with the direction of 40k and couldn't get into AoS. Guess I'm just stuck in the era I entered. Not much I can do about that.
I do have to admit the whole 'Good vs Evil' thing stuck in my craw more than it should perhaps.
I am however very hopeful and extremely interested in/excited about the rules. Looking forward to giving them a go with my mates one way or another.
I enjoyed the mini wargaming battle report and look forward to seeing other people try it out.
In particular as an Empire man I'm dying to see gun lines and more importantly blackpowder artillery in action.
I can't wait to play personally.
Thank you 🙂
I think you’ve got a very sensible approach, decided the models are not tight in value for you and going for the 3d printing option.
I’m a bit like you with the modern 40K and AOS lore, much prefer what I grew up with (or heresy which feels like old lore). I definitely like this as a setting as well, and hoping the lore reminds me of old fantasy rather than the newer stuff.
@@MiniatureRealms
I truly hope I'm proven wrong about the lore. Only time will tell and at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference really.
I noticed around 10am that the preorders sold out almost immediately in two stores I normally frequent, as was expected imo. Although when I asked the lad I normally deal with he said they got "feck all stock" his words not mine. Said he couldn't tell me how much unfortunately.
I also got an email from Element games saying "We are disappointed to report that stock allocations are incredibly low for all products in this release. We won’t be able to offer it for online sale and will have very limited stock in our physical stores. We have been made aware that most of the products are planned to be restocked in the future but haven’t yet been given a firm date."
Disappointing but unsurprising that GW is being very cautious with this release and testing the waters more so than anything else.
Will be interesting to see how it goes from here personally.
Im not sure how anyone can complain about anything...we all wanted Warhammer Fantasy back...now we are getting it why the f**k is everyone complaining about every decision gw have made?...if you dont like the decisions then dont buy it. People are idiots.
Just to clarify this comment isnt directed at you...love your videos mate! 😊
😂 Cheers mate
GW killed half of WF factions.
I think there’s reason and nuance related to business decisions there, but I’m sad not to see them as well.
So exciting.....
It’s going to be a loooonng two weeks for me 😂
Yeah, we bought all the army books, back in the day. I’m actually really happy with how they’re releasing the models and books. It’s more manageable for me financially.
I’m glad someone thinks along the same way as I do with that, and as a long(ish) time MESBG player I’m really not surprised by this approach either.
I’m glad someone thinks along the same way as I do with that, and as a long(ish) time MESBG player I’m really not surprised by this approach either.
Thanks for the informative vid, it is very much appreciated! I have quit the hobby around the time of 6th edtion, but I continued to take interest in the setting throughout the intervening 20 years (yikes!) and absolutely loved what Creative Assembly did to the IP with TWW.
I am still on the fence, seeing as GW seems to be purely profit-driven these days and I would not put it past them to drop the support for WFB/Old World and cut their loses as soon as the financial reports start coming in. With that said, nostalgia is still strong in this one.
I think you’re safe enough, they will have at least a 3-4 year release cycle planned in, and unless it tanks there will be another edition as well. I think it will at the very least get two editions and 8 years.
Hi Stuart. Thanks for the vid, its so nice to watch something without all the attached negativity that usually comes with Warhammer posts. (Why, why, why?).
I've jumped in and pre-ordered the two army list books and the Bret booklet. My games of old were Dark Elves and the 3 armies of Chaos. So I'm pretty keen to see what they will look like in the 'new' Old World. I like what I have seen of the rules so far. The one missing aspect from the previews has been an article on how terrain rules will work. Will they be like 8th ed. or will we see more of a return to the glory days of 6th/7th Ed's? I hope for the later.
I'm not bothered about pricing. I can't afford to buy everything I want as there is soooo much good stuff out there for our hobby, I cant keep up with it anyway. And GW has never been a cheap hobby, so nothing new there. So why sweat over it? I personally aren't buzzed by the look of the Bretonnian range, with the exception of the Pegasus Knights, so if I ever go the Bretonnian way I may end up using Fire Forge models or the like. I've never been to a Tourny, and Warhammer World is half a world away to me (I'm in New Zealand), and if someone wants to ban me from using certain model brands then I guess we won't be playing together any time soon. Their loss.
I'm not bothered about the Legacy factions thing either. If the (FREE) pdf rules balance with the army list books at release then I will be stoked. Game, set and match! But I suspect the odd legacy army to pop in from time to time once the Core Nine are all out. It would only take a White Dwarf article with a Dark Elf Corsairs raid or maybe Wargames Illustrated might put something out one day.. Imagination is limitless, spoon-feeding is not for me.
Happy gaming everyone,
Ben aka nzdarkelf
I love your approach to it, wish a few more people were as relaxed about it. I’m looking forward to the rules myself, been watching the Mini Wargaming Battle report, I can recommend it for a decent idea on the rules.
For some reason the main theme color of the Old World - blue ? greenish blue? - is repelling for me. Hope they change or modify it
I doubt they will if I’m honest, think that’s the branding they’re going with. AOS has red now, so guess they needed something different.
Thanks for this I’ve found it really difficult to gather what’s actually happening across the various tidbits released over the last few years. I think they seem to be doing this release pretty well. There will always be critics though!
Thank you for watching, glad it was useful, I hoped it would do cover the kind of info people like yourself were after.
I've been out of the hobby for 10 years. I'll be getting back into it soon tho. I'm just scared that it won't do well & get canceled after 2 or 3 years. Then there's the availability of the minis. I won't be able to pre-order the launch boxes because I'm moving into a new apartment. If the launch boxes are still available in a few months, I'll get both of them. Just waiting a few months to see how this plays out. I'll either go with The Old World or Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings & First Blood. I can't afford to play both.
I think that's a very sensible approach, waiting to see how things pan out rather than rushing
Never a bad idea to wait and see how it pans out. I think by summer you will have a good idea how it’s going, but I think you’re safe that it won’t get canned in 2-3 years, I imagine releases are planning in and being worked on beyond that.
Me and a ton of fans of fantasy I've talked to probably won't be playing. Game seems an actual lot like a pump and dump. Some of the most popular factions including all my favorite are just not gonna be supported. The new article says the won't even be tournament legal so what's the point? They couldn't even be bothered to port some AOS models over to update models lines. Wow I can't wait to buy 100 25 year old tomb king skeletons. The rules are efine from what I've seen but they spent 4 years to give us simplified 5th or 6th? Come on now what are we doing? I love those but this all seems like excuses and laziness.
Yep I get that it won’t be to everyone’s taste,
I don’t think they have plans to dump it though, but only time will tell.
I think there’s more to the lack of some factions being used, it’s not a matter of being too lazy to move stuff over, I don’t think they’ve been allowed to by the main studio. Some lines are seen as AOS ‘assets’ now, especially ones that have been updated or have newer sculpts. You watch as Chaos Warriors are released, it will be the old sculpts (and people will just buy the new ones). There’s a deliberate ploy to split the ranges, and TOW get the old stuff. I don’t think the TOW would be making those choices if they didn’t have to. It’s a shame, seems like a waste of resources. I completely agree that it’s poor that the legacy armies are not tournament legal (well at official ones anyway, doubt independents will follow that), I don’t feel like that was needed.
I quite like the look of the rules, but each edition has its fans. So I actually agree with some of your points, but don’t think laziness has much to do with it, the frustrating decisions are down to other things.