Thank you for this! While I understood after reading up on the books ahead of release, I’ve already seen a lot of UA-camrs who clearly went into it with a purely 40K mindset and seemed to be really baffled by the books and misunderstood what the point of them was. So hopefully videos like this can be helpful for players looking for clarity
Yep the irritating Meta/Statistical gamer which caused so much problems in the original WHFB. I used to think I don't give a F about what builds the best army Statistically, I don't care about competitive or Meta play I want to have fun play with army Units I like regardless if they are good or statistically bad - who cares as long as people are having fun and experimenting with different things instead of seeing the same carbon copy army list. 😂
@@Mark-nh2hs yeah like I couldn’t care less if the Bretonnia exiles are competitive. Im gonna be making a regular Bretonnia list initially but I love knowing that down the line I have a fluffy rule set to make some border Prince customs units. And knowing that if I want to buy said non essential book it’s only £15 from my local retailer
19:00 I feel like the best solution to this is to relegate the hardback books to thick coffee table lore tomes, and to keep the army stuff in the much smaller paperbacks AND digital. This is a neat step in the right direction.
I have to admit something. GW was always overwhelming to me. I would fall in and out of 40k because it always felt like a college course for me to learn how to play. I saw your Old Worlds lore video and it peaked me interest again. As I’m watching this one, I’m really considering playing this instead of 40k. Thanks for what you do!!!
You could also try playing with Kings of War ruleset but still enjoy the Warhammer setting. That's what I've done up until now since they nuked Fantasy Battles. Even though Kings of War have some in house factions, they also have rules that fit Warhammer Fantasy armies in sort of generic terms to avoid issues. So instead of Bretonnia and Empire you get "Kingdoms of Men" and so on.
Look into one page rules grim dark if you want an easier way to play 40K in a new fun interactive way. It’s my favourite way to play 40K since 4th edition. If old world is somehow bad (doubt), there’s a one page variant for that, too!
I do love that they called the army books 'Forces of Fantasy' and 'Ravening Hordes', as those were the names for the army list supplements for WFB 1st and 2nd edition, respectively. :)
I remember back around 3rd or 4th edition 40k they did supplement books like this for stuff like the different Eldar craftworlds and named characters. Always thought it was a good idea as sort of a 3 step into to the rules. Step 1 you get the core rules and whatever rules for your models come in the box. Step 2 you get a codex or faction book that gives full army rules. Step 3 you have extra small paperback supplement books with special army rules, characters, and narrative missions. I started fantasy right when AoS was coming out, so I have a mix of some Old World and AoS models. I'll be excited to go through and see what I have that I can start Old World with.
Caveat that I don't have the books yet and how I feel might change when I have them in hand, but this feels like the *almost* perfect solution to me. One of my BIG complaints with GW and 40k specifically for a long time, made even worse in 10th is how redundant codexes feel. The rules in them are out of date almost immediately, and I remember when 10th came out there being a discussion about wanting the army books to essentially be just lore and inspiration books with maybe a tiny amount of options game mechanics, which is exactly what the arcane journals seem to be, and I'm here for it!
I think there’s 5 + 4 factions in the game to make up 9 rather than 6 + 5 to make up 11. Empire, Dorfs, Brets, High Elves, Wood Elves, and then Tomb Kings, Warriors of Chaos, Orcs + Gobbos, Beastmen. The Colleges will come around in 2301-2304 IC so it’s down the road a little, but not that far away all things considered. I think it’s more likely that, given how divided the Empire is at this point, that we might get a bunch of different faction lists as the focus of the narrative moves around eg maybe the first Empire book will have army lists from the southern regions like Nuln or Averland but then when the focus moves to the north a new Arcane journal comes out with the Middenheim/Ostland lists and so on. I fully expect the one of the Elf journals to have a separate Eonir list for the Laurelorn elves too, because they are a halfway house between the High and Wood Elf societies and they’re up there next door to Middenheim being a constant *factor* in the geopolitics there.
I always preferred when Beastmen, Chaos Daemons and Warriors of Chaos were one army not three different armies lol. Made the chaos army more interesting to play as you had a good mix.
@@Mark-nh2hs I do think they have distinct enough identies to be fielded separately, and I think the combined force has WoC as core, Daemons as elites and Beastmen as mooks, which I don't think quite does them justice (Beastmen especially) so my preference is seperate armies that can ally with each other - so you can still field those combined Chaos forces.
Ian, as always, an excellent video. Very envious of what you were gifted by GW. You see, the frustrating thing is, both the core box AND the hardcover rule book (which could be purchased separately) were sold out in Australia on Day 1 of the pre-order. So too is the Forces of Fantasy army book. As you can appreciate, very frustrating to be in a situation where one can't play, because there is no product suite for the customer to buy.
That bit about units separating at the end of combat is also how One Page Rules does things. In there, when a unit charges, the two units do combat, and then if they're both still standing afterwards, the charging unit backs up an inch. It works very well in the alternating activations system OPR uses, and it just keeps rules complexity down. You don't need rules for adjudicating ongoing combats if ongoing combats aren't possible.
If you like the setting but not the gaming, there's a classic WH Fantasy novel from the 80s called 'Drachenfels' which is WELL worth tracking down. It's a fast read and you don't need any backstory. Might give you nightmares though ;)
The legend armies are mostly the ones they want to keep in Age of Sigmar. The chaos factions being the exceptions, but there was no way they could avoid that. It will be interesting to see if they actually bring back chaos model that have been updated in AOS. To me it feels clear GW don’t want to mix up the two IPs, and keep them distinct looking on the table (similar to how they legended all the Heresy option in 40K). If that lasts long term really depends on how Old World does.
And I suspect we'll see these crossover factions get reworked and updated in AoS so much that they become distinct enough from the older models that the old units can return to TOW. This is basically what's just happened with the old Empire models in the Cities of Sigmar list. There's still some crossover, but it's a fraction of what it once was.
I believe there were three motives for that decision to keep both games as separate as possible. And I'm NOT suggesting that there wouldn't be solutions. a) Keeping the games systems separate will solve issues such as this. With a new release for a certain army people would expect rules for both game systems. And interlocking ToW and AoS can cause all sorts of problems: e.g. faction focus for releases, model design differences, lore... b) It's two distinct studios - they are likely both accountable for their costs / earnings and have different teams. This might sound silly from the outside, but for larger companies coordinating multiple departments isn't as trivial as it might seem at first glance. c) If they'd officially make these legend armies just as 'valid' - people would expect the demand the according support. Now everything they offer on top is received as a bonus. And more factions would make everything a bit more complicated (for a the smaller studio that runs ToW) I wouldn't be surprised if they internally are already planing the outline for the next years and coordinate which factions in AoS might get a sufficient overhaul that in turn allows them to officially intergrate them into ToW. With lore for Kislev and Cathay in the book we might get a larger release for these armies next year. And after all - we only miss the arcane journals equivalent for the legend armies.
It's a bit of a shame that we aren't going to get an Skaven Arkane Journal with special lists for the great clans (Except for Skryre, who aren't yet what they were in WHFB, iirc).
@@Rhowin1 It's still comically stupid and shortsighted, telling ogre/skaven/lizardmen/demon/beastmen players to piss off leaves tons of money off table, and vast majority of models in these armies was made in WFB days so it's still frakking compatible with TOW!
From what I understand Fantasy's community is a lot like Heresy's in that its much more community driven (being abandoned for 8 years will do that I guess) so I would be really surprised if commandments by GW on what is and isn't legal at tournaments are even taken into account outside any official GW tournaments.
Perhaps this is just me having learnt to wargame in the 90s, but this seems like a very good way to do it. All the rules you need to actually play the game in the box. And then all the "useless" narrative text, plus a couple special rules, some characters for the power games, and a couple fun alternate builds so you can say "no, really, it's a rules supplement" in an inexpensive, entirely optional add-on.
My son got the Imperial Guard Cmas Battlebox for Christmas, and my original Green Knight model from 5th Edition WFB (still only undercoated and never painted 😂) is now being used to represent Lord Solar. I feel the release of TOW is probably a good time to finally paint my Green Knight!
Only one thing to say Ian - typically even handed thoughts from you, much appreciated. Really enjoyed this take, and I'm looking forward to getting stuck in when the Wood Elves rear their floral heads.
I've been playing fantasy since I was 8 years old (I'm 28 now), looking forward to more fantasy content from you hopefully! (I played mostly 6-8th, so exclusively the ones you didn't*) Also very nice to have a video that isn't fanning the flames, the discussion has become som inflammatory when it comes to Old World, glad to see some normal good content and not "dead on arrival discussion" bs that is going on everywhere. I love this community, but by the Lady of the lake does it exhaust me sometimes.
Whilst similar to Heresy the book style fits MESBG far better. The Old World project lead is also in charge of MESBG and the team is shared between them. All the armies being in a big book is also the case in MESBG. They then released optional supplement books with a bit more lore and themed armies to keep the game interesting. It's a great system and it prevents most people from having to buy 10 different books
The rules feel like mesbg from what I've seen, which is the best thing I can probably say about a fantasy rules set. Looking forward to giving it a go!
I wonder if they'll release at least some army books/codex type since Tomb Kings and Braetonia have their own books and others are legacy, but something I completely forgot when they put this up for pre-order, one of the first things they showed was concept art for Grand Cathay and Kislev, two of the factions they added for Total war: warhammer 3 and they aren't part of the launch factions, kinda makes sense since people lost 2 factions by end times to AoS
Tinfoil hat time: I think they'll eventually release a third book like Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes, but it will contain Kislev, Cathay, and 1-3 other factions, which will probably be returning factions. These would be factions that didn't fit within the scope of the Old World, but are relevant to Kislev or Cathay.
The main reason they focused on Kislev early on was to show off their design work they had done as a basis for TW:WH3. They only ever did one article on Cathay, specifically on some lore plus a map, right when TW:WH3 launched (followed by another that made a minor mention). People keep misremembering all the articles released via the Creative Assembly for TW:WH3 as having been by Games Workshop for TOW. Anyway, both need completely new model ranges from scratch, so they were never going to launch with either of them, let alone both, but Kislev is undoubtedly only a couple of years away, and they certainly want to eventually get to Cathay (etc.), too.
Such a great overview, thank you! The thing about ending combat with separation sounds like it's borrowed from Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game. In that, the loser in a melee fight (a "duel") backs away 1 inch (which places it just outside melee range). Works really well.
Ash Barker of Guerilla Miniature Games said in one of his vids that this ruleset was a combo of 6th ed Fantasy and MESBG. Given his time in the hobby and him being ex-GW, I'll take his word on that.
At first I was against the 2 books per army style with the Army List book and the Acrane Journals, but that was before seeing things like this that fully explained what was going on in them. At first I assumed it was units in the army list, so you could technically play with just that, but you'd be missing out on a lot of stuff from the Arcane Journal. But seeing how they really are, I actually think I like it. Bunch of armies you could fully play in each Army List, and then when you want to go all in and get some extra but not required stuff for one army you can pick up the Arcane Journal. It does kinda suck that here in the US the Arcane Journal is more than half the price of the Army List, but at $27 it also isnt terrible. Cheaper than buying a second codex in 40k, that's for sure.
you'll have to excuse me when I dont believe GW when they say "oh don't worry you wont need that to play" about a product they're selling@@thomassaxon8254
The other option for rules is the one GW doesn’t want to acknowledge (even though they just did it temporarily): just make all the rules free online. As soon as a Wahapedia equivalent exists for Old World it’s not like I’m gonna buy their rulebooks anyway.
@@thomassaxon8254 Free rules might make more people (that don't want to expend of rules) buy more miniatures, which is the only thing making GW some money. They don't make anything from books, it barely supports anything.
This video posted about the same time as the most recent Rogue Hobbies one did, they were right next to each other on my YT home page, I clicked on one but thought I'd clicked on the other, for a very long half second I was exceedingly confused
I feel the same way about the Legends armies. The WHFB community just wants everyone to field all their old models again, and I can't see independent tournaments not allowing certain armies due to Legends status.
Yes, percentages is back!!! Also, As splitting Army rules for fluff might make sence, they should have splitt the main Rules book too. You always carry that bloody thing around and when playing tou only want the rules part... Thank you for clearing thinhgs up Ian, and I'm glad they sent you the stuff.
Extremely helpful and simple breakdown. As for the legacy armies, there's definitely going to be unofficial support for them. Outside of official GW, I think you'll still see plenty of those factions playable, especially considering many have AoS models that could work like Seraphon, Chaos, and Vampires. For Chaos Dwarves, Kings of War Abyssal Dwarves might be good enough for now for people looking for models.
Don't most of the non-returning factions still have most of their kits available in AOS? All the old Skaven range carried over. Most Dark Elves became Cities of Sigmar units. Lizardmen became Seraphon. Daemons of Chaos and Ogres still have their fantasy ranges. Vampire Counts became Soulblight or Flesh Eater Courts. In fact the only things that you won't be able to get are Chaos Dwarfs.
It must be an indication of how old I've become that I love this rules format. I'm not going to play Ild World, but this is also how the Middle Earth game is handled, and I wish all of GW's games were presented in this "less competitive" way.
Same here. The use of special characters seems to be either you do or you don't thing. Me and my good mate are both in agreement that special characters for us belong in black library novels, others obivously love running the likes of Kharn or the Green Knight every game, this solution provides for both. Even though I don't like special characters I'd be picking up the specific paperback for the army anyway, but its defs a nice to have rather than a must. Much in the same way the Seige book for Heresy is.
Jake Thornton was one of the designers for 6th. Edition. Later on, he made his own fantasy rank n' flank game, God of Battles. He described it as "WHFB if I was designing the game entirely new from the ground up and not burdened by past editions." It was here that "units always break off from one another each combat" was introduced into this genre AFAIK. It's possible Thornton was a contributor to The Old World or at least in the same group of friends who worked on it.
There I was making an inventory of all my old High Elf models I found at my parents over the Christmas break and all this Old World talk is making my want to strip and repaint them.
Fantastic video! I’m super excited for ToW, and it was great to hear a critical, but enthusiastic voice for it too! Would it be fair to say that the additions from the Arcane Journals function like Heresy’s Rites of War?
Good video, really liked the way you summarised things, you didn't make PowerPoint slides or anything but i feel i got a bunch of useful info. Very interesting you found common ground between 5th ed Warhammer, now i was a youngster but i found 5th ed WHFB (and 2nd ed 40k!) utterly impenetrable compared to their descendants. I am very much looking forward to the other Arcane Journals, particularly the Hordes of Chaos one given that i can't help but feel Chaos can seem a bit bland when it's streamlined, i hope they have a good release cadence. Something i think is a shame is that without a more generic force org we miss out on things like generic Rites of War, so you can build interesting lists without needing your arcane journal. I hope we don't have to wait for new plastic kits to get some of the old ones back, there are some nice kits and the pricing doesn't seem that bad really.
Sadly it's asclear as mud to me 😂 here's why and hoping you can clear things up kind sir. So I am someone who used to play Warhammer fantasy battle in the 90s and just decided to dip his toes in the water recently. When I saw old world it was like ah ha ill get this rather than age of sigmar as it harkens back to the good old days. Am I right in thinking there isn't a starter box for this like there is for Sigmar and Horus Heresy, it appears the Brettonian and Undead boxes only give you one army along with rule book, templates and dice. So for someone like me who only intends to play at home with family would need to buy an additional army set on top of the £200 or so on one of the boxes. I'm coming from the position that we have no prior games, figures or rulebooks. When compared to a starter set for Sigmar or 40k which contains all you need for £150 max Inc 2 armies and terrain in some instances this game seems to be a complete rip off, games workshop obviously see its players coming for miles. Back in my day WH and 40k boxed games were like £35 inflation in 30yrs is ridiculous. So I take it it would be cheaper to buy the rule book, 2 army sets and all other bits needed separately, correct? Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated thank you.
You're right that there's no two-army starter set for Old World. We don't know if there will be one in the future. I don't know why, though it's likely they think this will sell better. Two-army starter sets are always a bit odd. SOME people buy it to play with just the contents of the set, especially kids and people new to the hobby. But usually the box doesn't contain enough models to make a full army for either faction and established players either don't buy, or buy and swap their unwanted half with someone else, doubling up on the same models. I would guess that (like Horus Heresy) they see Old World as a game that's likely to be bought by established players who mostly want a full sized army to play other people with, rather than beginners who want two small forces to play with their siblings for example. And that by just saying 'which army do you want' you get a better selection than giving two halves of an army. I don't know if you'll save money buying the rulebook and two 'army sets' because we don't yet know if there will be any smaller army sets available. It might be the case that this IS the size of an army set and the same sort of box (80-90 models and rulebook) will be released for each faction. No idea yet.
@@Gage_Welch the templates in the age of darkness box are also orange, i imagine its just to save time/money on not having to print them in multiple colours. at least orange is the colour of most flames/explosions, so its fitting
Not sure I like the Good and Evil split, as Tomb Kings are traditionally neutral. Also totally agree regarding special characters. They should be the option. 8th did it quite nice with some of them, making them the centerpiece of weird skew lists.
I too last played in 5th. I have ordered the main book and Ravening Hordes, but I'm going to be waiting for when they deign to release the faction box for Chaos. From what I've seen online, much of the AoS range will be represented but I'm leery of buying a bunch of AoS stuff plus bases in case they do something weird when the models and journal are made available
I think the complaints are less about the little book, more about needing the chonky one when most of it is irrelevant. To their credit, at least the big book is divided by faction rather than intermingled like the dire 30k ones.
Reminds me of the 40k 3rd edition codex supplement books (e.g. Space Marine Codex plus Dark Angels supplement) without the downside of the staggered linked codex release, but in stead linked to the one time release Army list. So one could call them Army supplements?
Great video but fell off my chair laughing with the 'they want all the rules, but they don't want all the rules', sums up some the ranting thumb nail cringe videos out there
NGL I really like the smaller books. I started with 3rd edition Tyranids and that book felt small enough that I could keep the important stuff in my head. I find the sheer volume of rules bloat so off putting these days. I know that's how some people like it but it's not for me at all. I also find that the rules go out of date so fast that releasing a codex with more than just fluff and art seems pointless. LoV were patched practically on release. Additionally you'd need to buy a book for every single army you own which seems costly and discourages me from buying more armies. I feel like a digital rule set is the way to go and put fluff books on the side.
there is a chance I'm just on the hype train but I;m really excited for old world and I'm digging out all my old fantasy (and some aos I can convert) to get my army ready for when my books arrive lol. thanks for these videos! =D
Thanks for the video Ian, it's very inspiring! A question for the gray-haired ancients: I remember to have bought a box of three plastic skeleton horsemen in 1994, and I think the Tomb Kings skeletal horses are still the same sculpt. Am I right?
There is another option for the rules. They could just release the rules and army lists as PDFs, that would also let them update them more regularly since they don't need to release a whole new book. But of course, that would deny them the ability to force everyone to buy multiple $60 books as well as tons of models.
They should release a digital version as well. Plenty of players like myself much prefer a physical book. Theyre easier to flick through quickly, dont drain your devices power and are just nicer to use. I do wish the various army books would go paperback though
The only reason I don't like this is because designers use it as an excuse to make shitty rules. "We'll just patch any balance issues as they come up!" is a lot easier to say than when you have to have a final product. Of course, that doesn't stop GW from releasing day one errata, but it's always the dream they have a well-tested set of rules printed out in books.
@@nekrataali Honestly, I think that's just not how it works. Most people want to make something good, and it being digital lets them do that more easily. When you have a hard copy that needs to be printed it means you need to lock work weeks ahead of distribution and if you discover issues in that time, I guess the book's just wrong forever now and everyone needs to use the book AND an online errata. When it comes down to it, I'd rather have jank that can be fixed easily rather than have to pay $60 (+$60/army I want to play) for a probably, mostly correct ruleset every 3-4 years.
Goddamn it! Warhammer The Old World has appeared in YT algorithm due to my interest in skirmish games. I played (use the word loosely) in the 80s as I enjoyed painting (badly) and followed along with White Dwarf, even if I disliked WH40k. Eventually moved on because I had zero interest in WH40k. I recalled I had a set of the 1984 Warhammer Fantasy Battle rules. Sure enough, I still have yhe 3 booklet set: Book 1: Combat Book 2: Battle Magic Book 3: Battle Bestiary In true 80s fashion, you were dropped in the deep end without a paddle. 40 years have passed since then so will thumb through them to pick up the rules. Updated edition I suspect will be a LOT more user-friendly. Bought HeroQuest because my Little Man is 7 1/2 and wanted to gently introduce him to fantasy gaming, as well as provide us with the opportunity to dip our toes into model painting (which I haven't done since 1989).
Thank you for the overview, it really helps a lot. I was a bit confused by the releases and this helps. I am not sure if I will jump on the bandwagon tho. I just got into LI and I am not sure if I want to invest in another GW game so soon, especially since my army of choice will be unsupported (Skaven).
@ArbitorIan I can't see GW ever going back to Kislev being a mere add-on for the Empire after having done all the work of redesigning and expanding their army list into an internal full-size 8th edition army book for the Creative Assembly to base the Total War version on, let alone after said version has had mass exposure and thus raised the bar for what's an acceptable tabletop release for Kislev. An Arcane Journal would be just about big enough if they do like they seem to be doing with the others and outsource most of the lore to campaign books, but I'd still expect (or at least advise) them to call it something else, as it's a different - actually required - kind of book.
Hi Ian, thanks for a great overview. For someone who isn’t really a player but loves the minis and lore/art which books would you say are worth it? Sounds like the forces books are mostly army lists so not ideal but are the arcane journals decently packed with lore and art or is it mostly rehash of the core book? (Already getting the core book with the bretonnia box).
Supposedly if Old World does well GW will move some armies out of Legacy and do a proper release for them? Looks like Skaven, Dark Elves and Vampire Counts are all legacy, which seems bizarre to me.
I think the arcane journals will work well for variant army lists but disagree completely with putting major characters such as Settra or the Green Knight into them. They're such a big part of their faction they should be in the main army list.
@@thomassaxon8254 of course special characters should be the exception but I feel that if a character has an official released mini then it should have its stats in the appropriate army book. The journals can be used for special characters that people can kitbash/convert. Imagine if GW took the same approach with their Middle Earth game : "Here's the Forces of Mordor book - oh you want the stats for Sauron? Well you'll have to buy ANOTHER book".
@mikenolan73 different game, different way of playing. MESBG is built around the special characters and is hero centric. WFB shouldn't be. This way it encourages people to not immediately go "I'll put the Green Knight into every game". It's like 6th Ed in that way.
there is NO way that some fantasy armys will stay out of tournaments for long. im 100% sure that we will get the other army sooner or later releaset together in another book. and i say that as an old tounament player for 6th, 7th and 8th edition. i mean chaos dwarfes and dark elves never had a big community behind them. but scaven and ogre have a big bright and cheerful community behind them, and they make ATLEAST 10% of tournament players. HOWEVER, there are still 2 of the MOST played armys missing, beeing vampires and lizardman, with vampires beeing in the TOP THREE of most played armys!!!!!!!!
Hmm unless your theme is the army of Sir Cecil, just like if your 40k army is a characters army so like my Space wolves army is the Deathwolves so Harald is almost always leading it but yeah the only think that saddens me is there isnt that many name characters
... yet. Campaign books - of which we know are coming - will have more of these. And as a Bretonnian: isn't half the fun making up your own characters epic story?
I spend so much money on this stuff over time and felt like GW threw me under the bus when they cancelled it. I can’t say wizards are any better. I been playing Alien RPG with my group of teenagers as I am kind of like a social worker. I use it for social anxiety but I really don’t think GW will convince me to play
I suspect square based called it for the reason why GW wants to ban the legacy factions from old world…separate profit centre execs. Squabbling over profit sharing for AoS and Old World! Also explains why Skaven never got to 40K. Cynical I know, but anyone familiar with Corporate behaviour will recognise how execs behave when their ££££bonus is put in jeopardy! Nice video btw and thanks for sharing…quite logical, would all be better in an app though!
JFC all you gotta do is get a god damn youtube channel and GW will send you a full product lineup FFS. How many of these went to stupid youtube channels instead of paying customers who ONCE AGAIN cannot get their hands on products!?
“They want all the rules, all at once, but they don’t want all the rules, all at once.” No Ian, you were nearly there but you got it wrong. We want all the rules at once, but we _don’t_ want **all the armies in the same book.** Would it kill GW to write _multiple_ army books/codexes and release all them at launch _at the same time?_
I wayyyyyy prefer when 40k had special characters as purely optional. Same goes for fantasy for me. More friendly to custom factions and avoids herohammer
LOL, on what planet you were born? In 99% of cases, herohammer is some stupid wombo-combo tryhard wargear cherrypick on generic character, most of special characters are written for fluff and don't have 1/10 of offensive output of generic crap. Point one SM character who could take smash captain in last FOUR editions, or Tau character who could match quad fusion iridium space suit, then we will talk. If anything, special characters LOWER the army power and open a lot of new, custom faction build options so wrong here too...
Thank you for this! While I understood after reading up on the books ahead of release, I’ve already seen a lot of UA-camrs who clearly went into it with a purely 40K mindset and seemed to be really baffled by the books and misunderstood what the point of them was. So hopefully videos like this can be helpful for players looking for clarity
Yep the irritating Meta/Statistical gamer which caused so much problems in the original WHFB. I used to think I don't give a F about what builds the best army Statistically, I don't care about competitive or Meta play I want to have fun play with army Units I like regardless if they are good or statistically bad - who cares as long as people are having fun and experimenting with different things instead of seeing the same carbon copy army list. 😂
@@Mark-nh2hs yeah like I couldn’t care less if the Bretonnia exiles are competitive. Im gonna be making a regular Bretonnia list initially but I love knowing that down the line I have a fluffy rule set to make some border Prince customs units. And knowing that if I want to buy said non essential book it’s only £15 from my local retailer
19:00 I feel like the best solution to this is to relegate the hardback books to thick coffee table lore tomes, and to keep the army stuff in the much smaller paperbacks AND digital. This is a neat step in the right direction.
I so wish they'd done that with the 40k boarding actions rules
My 6000 points of empire looking at me like
"Summon the elector counts"
Have fun rebasing them all lol
@@badradness3570 I will be getting the new movement trays
Adapters...no deal@@badradness3570
I have to admit something.
GW was always overwhelming to me. I would fall in and out of 40k because it always felt like a college course for me to learn how to play. I saw your Old Worlds lore video and it peaked me interest again.
As I’m watching this one, I’m really considering playing this instead of 40k.
Thanks for what you do!!!
It's not so bad if you just want to play some casual games with your mates. No need to understand every little rule.
If you arent into massive core rulebooks AOS is probably for you.
You could also try playing with Kings of War ruleset but still enjoy the Warhammer setting. That's what I've done up until now since they nuked Fantasy Battles. Even though Kings of War have some in house factions, they also have rules that fit Warhammer Fantasy armies in sort of generic terms to avoid issues. So instead of Bretonnia and Empire you get "Kingdoms of Men" and so on.
That would be wise.
Look into one page rules grim dark if you want an easier way to play 40K in a new fun interactive way. It’s my favourite way to play 40K since 4th edition.
If old world is somehow bad (doubt), there’s a one page variant for that, too!
I do love that they called the army books 'Forces of Fantasy' and 'Ravening Hordes', as those were the names for the army list supplements for WFB 1st and 2nd edition, respectively. :)
I remember back around 3rd or 4th edition 40k they did supplement books like this for stuff like the different Eldar craftworlds and named characters. Always thought it was a good idea as sort of a 3 step into to the rules.
Step 1 you get the core rules and whatever rules for your models come in the box. Step 2 you get a codex or faction book that gives full army rules. Step 3 you have extra small paperback supplement books with special army rules, characters, and narrative missions.
I started fantasy right when AoS was coming out, so I have a mix of some Old World and AoS models. I'll be excited to go through and see what I have that I can start Old World with.
Caveat that I don't have the books yet and how I feel might change when I have them in hand, but this feels like the *almost* perfect solution to me.
One of my BIG complaints with GW and 40k specifically for a long time, made even worse in 10th is how redundant codexes feel. The rules in them are out of date almost immediately, and I remember when 10th came out there being a discussion about wanting the army books to essentially be just lore and inspiration books with maybe a tiny amount of options game mechanics, which is exactly what the arcane journals seem to be, and I'm here for it!
I think there’s 5 + 4 factions in the game to make up 9 rather than 6 + 5 to make up 11. Empire, Dorfs, Brets, High Elves, Wood Elves, and then Tomb Kings, Warriors of Chaos, Orcs + Gobbos, Beastmen.
The Colleges will come around in 2301-2304 IC so it’s down the road a little, but not that far away all things considered. I think it’s more likely that, given how divided the Empire is at this point, that we might get a bunch of different faction lists as the focus of the narrative moves around eg maybe the first Empire book will have army lists from the southern regions like Nuln or Averland but then when the focus moves to the north a new Arcane journal comes out with the Middenheim/Ostland lists and so on. I fully expect the one of the Elf journals to have a separate Eonir list for the Laurelorn elves too, because they are a halfway house between the High and Wood Elf societies and they’re up there next door to Middenheim being a constant *factor* in the geopolitics there.
I always preferred when Beastmen, Chaos Daemons and Warriors of Chaos were one army not three different armies lol. Made the chaos army more interesting to play as you had a good mix.
@@Mark-nh2hs I do think they have distinct enough identies to be fielded separately, and I think the combined force has WoC as core, Daemons as elites and Beastmen as mooks, which I don't think quite does them justice (Beastmen especially) so my preference is seperate armies that can ally with each other - so you can still field those combined Chaos forces.
Ian, as always, an excellent video. Very envious of what you were gifted by GW. You see, the frustrating thing is, both the core box AND the hardcover rule book (which could be purchased separately) were sold out in Australia on Day 1 of the pre-order. So too is the Forces of Fantasy army book. As you can appreciate, very frustrating to be in a situation where one can't play, because there is no product suite for the customer to buy.
That bit about units separating at the end of combat is also how One Page Rules does things. In there, when a unit charges, the two units do combat, and then if they're both still standing afterwards, the charging unit backs up an inch. It works very well in the alternating activations system OPR uses, and it just keeps rules complexity down. You don't need rules for adjudicating ongoing combats if ongoing combats aren't possible.
Not sure i'll ever jump into table top, but Old World actually seems interesting enough to maybe try.
If you like the setting but not the gaming, there's a classic WH Fantasy novel from the 80s called 'Drachenfels' which is WELL worth tracking down. It's a fast read and you don't need any backstory. Might give you nightmares though ;)
@@rchilton currently delving into the Gotrek and Felix novels currently. Have the first Omnibus as an e book.
@@TheDefaultgameer oh, you're in for a real treat. ❤️
The legend armies are mostly the ones they want to keep in Age of Sigmar. The chaos factions being the exceptions, but there was no way they could avoid that. It will be interesting to see if they actually bring back chaos model that have been updated in AOS. To me it feels clear GW don’t want to mix up the two IPs, and keep them distinct looking on the table (similar to how they legended all the Heresy option in 40K). If that lasts long term really depends on how Old World does.
The new TOW books have the old chaos warrior models, so it appears we are getting the old ones back.
And I suspect we'll see these crossover factions get reworked and updated in AoS so much that they become distinct enough from the older models that the old units can return to TOW. This is basically what's just happened with the old Empire models in the Cities of Sigmar list. There's still some crossover, but it's a fraction of what it once was.
I believe there were three motives for that decision to keep both games as separate as possible. And I'm NOT suggesting that there wouldn't be solutions.
a) Keeping the games systems separate will solve issues such as this. With a new release for a certain army people would expect rules for both game systems. And interlocking ToW and AoS can cause all sorts of problems: e.g. faction focus for releases, model design differences, lore...
b) It's two distinct studios - they are likely both accountable for their costs / earnings and have different teams. This might sound silly from the outside, but for larger companies coordinating multiple departments isn't as trivial as it might seem at first glance.
c) If they'd officially make these legend armies just as 'valid' - people would expect the demand the according support. Now everything they offer on top is received as a bonus. And more factions would make everything a bit more complicated (for a the smaller studio that runs ToW)
I wouldn't be surprised if they internally are already planing the outline for the next years and coordinate which factions in AoS might get a sufficient overhaul that in turn allows them to officially intergrate them into ToW. With lore for Kislev and Cathay in the book we might get a larger release for these armies next year. And after all - we only miss the arcane journals equivalent for the legend armies.
It's a bit of a shame that we aren't going to get an Skaven Arkane Journal with special lists for the great clans (Except for Skryre, who aren't yet what they were in WHFB, iirc).
@@Rhowin1 It's still comically stupid and shortsighted, telling ogre/skaven/lizardmen/demon/beastmen players to piss off leaves tons of money off table, and vast majority of models in these armies was made in WFB days so it's still frakking compatible with TOW!
From what I understand Fantasy's community is a lot like Heresy's in that its much more community driven (being abandoned for 8 years will do that I guess) so I would be really surprised if commandments by GW on what is and isn't legal at tournaments are even taken into account outside any official GW tournaments.
Oh, the vast majority of tourneys will only enforce those if GW is directly involved somehow.
@@GoldenKaos Probably true. I expect that they'll end up being less popular events as a result though also.
@@nurglerider781 probs
Perhaps this is just me having learnt to wargame in the 90s, but this seems like a very good way to do it. All the rules you need to actually play the game in the box. And then all the "useless" narrative text, plus a couple special rules, some characters for the power games, and a couple fun alternate builds so you can say "no, really, it's a rules supplement" in an inexpensive, entirely optional add-on.
"Different sorts of Bretonnians" might become very relevant if they decide to cover the Affair of the False Grail.
My son got the Imperial Guard Cmas Battlebox for Christmas, and my original Green Knight model from 5th Edition WFB (still only undercoated and never painted 😂) is now being used to represent Lord Solar.
I feel the release of TOW is probably a good time to finally paint my Green Knight!
I like that they wont have models for a some of the options in the codex and you've gotta convert your own, feels like the good old days.
Reading this feels like a 6.5 edition and I'm absolutely loving it
Only one thing to say Ian - typically even handed thoughts from you, much appreciated. Really enjoyed this take, and I'm looking forward to getting stuck in when the Wood Elves rear their floral heads.
"Some people, obviously, want everything." Never a truer word! Thanks for the explainer, Ian, and keep up the good work :)
I've been playing fantasy since I was 8 years old (I'm 28 now), looking forward to more fantasy content from you hopefully! (I played mostly 6-8th, so exclusively the ones you didn't*)
Also very nice to have a video that isn't fanning the flames, the discussion has become som inflammatory when it comes to Old World, glad to see some normal good content and not "dead on arrival discussion" bs that is going on everywhere.
I love this community, but by the Lady of the lake does it exhaust me sometimes.
Whilst similar to Heresy the book style fits MESBG far better. The Old World project lead is also in charge of MESBG and the team is shared between them. All the armies being in a big book is also the case in MESBG. They then released optional supplement books with a bit more lore and themed armies to keep the game interesting. It's a great system and it prevents most people from having to buy 10 different books
The rules feel like mesbg from what I've seen, which is the best thing I can probably say about a fantasy rules set. Looking forward to giving it a go!
Great Vid! Looking forward to more old world content! Watching from Portsmouth UK.
Hello from sunny Fareham. 🎉
Hello from Petersfield.
I miss the guys at Fistful of Dice. Got so into wargaming at uni
@@CustardCream515 I used to live round the corner! But didn't get back into 40k until I'd moved. Bit gutted at the bad timing. 😆
The arcane journals are like collections of the flavour articles from white dwarf back in the day
Lizardmen - nope
Skaven - nope
VC - nope
Dark Elves - nope.
I feel personally attacked.
I wonder if they'll release at least some army books/codex type since Tomb Kings and Braetonia have their own books and others are legacy, but something I completely forgot when they put this up for pre-order, one of the first things they showed was concept art for Grand Cathay and Kislev, two of the factions they added for Total war: warhammer 3 and they aren't part of the launch factions, kinda makes sense since people lost 2 factions by end times to AoS
Tinfoil hat time: I think they'll eventually release a third book like Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes, but it will contain Kislev, Cathay, and 1-3 other factions, which will probably be returning factions. These would be factions that didn't fit within the scope of the Old World, but are relevant to Kislev or Cathay.
The main reason they focused on Kislev early on was to show off their design work they had done as a basis for TW:WH3. They only ever did one article on Cathay, specifically on some lore plus a map, right when TW:WH3 launched (followed by another that made a minor mention). People keep misremembering all the articles released via the Creative Assembly for TW:WH3 as having been by Games Workshop for TOW. Anyway, both need completely new model ranges from scratch, so they were never going to launch with either of them, let alone both, but Kislev is undoubtedly only a couple of years away, and they certainly want to eventually get to Cathay (etc.), too.
Such a great overview, thank you! The thing about ending combat with separation sounds like it's borrowed from Middle-earth Strategy Battle Game. In that, the loser in a melee fight (a "duel") backs away 1 inch (which places it just outside melee range). Works really well.
Ash Barker of Guerilla Miniature Games said in one of his vids that this ruleset was a combo of 6th ed Fantasy and MESBG. Given his time in the hobby and him being ex-GW, I'll take his word on that.
Best explanation for how the army books and journals interact! Thanks for that.
Nice to see Ian going into Old World Fantasy
At first I was against the 2 books per army style with the Army List book and the Acrane Journals, but that was before seeing things like this that fully explained what was going on in them. At first I assumed it was units in the army list, so you could technically play with just that, but you'd be missing out on a lot of stuff from the Arcane Journal.
But seeing how they really are, I actually think I like it. Bunch of armies you could fully play in each Army List, and then when you want to go all in and get some extra but not required stuff for one army you can pick up the Arcane Journal. It does kinda suck that here in the US the Arcane Journal is more than half the price of the Army List, but at $27 it also isnt terrible. Cheaper than buying a second codex in 40k, that's for sure.
Yeah, importantly the new units are ONLY useable in the weird lists. The weird lists also can't take allies and are generally more restrictive.
They did explain this in the articles as well on Warhammer Community.
you'll have to excuse me when I dont believe GW when they say "oh don't worry you wont need that to play" about a product they're selling@@thomassaxon8254
The other option for rules is the one GW doesn’t want to acknowledge (even though they just did it temporarily): just make all the rules free online. As soon as a Wahapedia equivalent exists for Old World it’s not like I’m gonna buy their rulebooks anyway.
So no one buying means no more Old World/WFB. It's not like it's 40K were they'll support it no matter what.
@@thomassaxon8254 No, rules being free means people put their money into miniatures instead. The cost of rules is gatekeeping.
@musicfighter282 I've no issues with free rules. I've issues with people not buying into the line so GW won't support it.
@@thomassaxon8254 Free rules might make more people (that don't want to expend of rules) buy more miniatures, which is the only thing making GW some money. They don't make anything from books, it barely supports anything.
This explanation is EXACTLY what I have been looking for. Thank you!
This video posted about the same time as the most recent Rogue Hobbies one did, they were right next to each other on my YT home page, I clicked on one but thought I'd clicked on the other, for a very long half second I was exceedingly confused
I feel the same way about the Legends armies. The WHFB community just wants everyone to field all their old models again, and I can't see independent tournaments not allowing certain armies due to Legends status.
Ugh the competitive players - had so many bad run in with many of them they really sapped the enjoyment out of the original game.
@@Mark-nh2hs theyll be coming back, I assure you
@@jamessmithiii4129 How can you assure anything? Are you an insider?
Yes, percentages is back!!!
Also, As splitting Army rules for fluff might make sence, they should have splitt the main Rules book too. You always carry that bloody thing around and when playing tou only want the rules part...
Thank you for clearing thinhgs up Ian, and I'm glad they sent you the stuff.
Extremely helpful and simple breakdown. As for the legacy armies, there's definitely going to be unofficial support for them. Outside of official GW, I think you'll still see plenty of those factions playable, especially considering many have AoS models that could work like Seraphon, Chaos, and Vampires. For Chaos Dwarves, Kings of War Abyssal Dwarves might be good enough for now for people looking for models.
Excellent. But why did they decide to not have have the skaven? Sad sad squeak noise noises
Don't most of the non-returning factions still have most of their kits available in AOS? All the old Skaven range carried over. Most Dark Elves became Cities of Sigmar units. Lizardmen became Seraphon. Daemons of Chaos and Ogres still have their fantasy ranges. Vampire Counts became Soulblight or Flesh Eater Courts. In fact the only things that you won't be able to get are Chaos Dwarfs.
Yes, but they won't be tournament legal nor reserve support anyway.
It must be an indication of how old I've become that I love this rules format. I'm not going to play Ild World, but this is also how the Middle Earth game is handled, and I wish all of GW's games were presented in this "less competitive" way.
Like the small book idea. Hope this go over to HH for each legion.
Same here. The use of special characters seems to be either you do or you don't thing. Me and my good mate are both in agreement that special characters for us belong in black library novels, others obivously love running the likes of Kharn or the Green Knight every game, this solution provides for both. Even though I don't like special characters I'd be picking up the specific paperback for the army anyway, but its defs a nice to have rather than a must. Much in the same way the Seige book for Heresy is.
Jake Thornton was one of the designers for 6th. Edition. Later on, he made his own fantasy rank n' flank game, God of Battles. He described it as "WHFB if I was designing the game entirely new from the ground up and not burdened by past editions." It was here that "units always break off from one another each combat" was introduced into this genre AFAIK. It's possible Thornton was a contributor to The Old World or at least in the same group of friends who worked on it.
Great breakdown! So glad to see some optimism. The wait has been long😮💨
There I was making an inventory of all my old High Elf models I found at my parents over the Christmas break and all this Old World talk is making my want to strip and repaint them.
I like the opening beat
Awesome content as ever Ian! Have to get my Saurus out for a scrap one time 😊
Great video, looking forward to this coming out!
The *Honest Wargamer* and a few of the other previous edition tournament organisers have already said that PDF armies are good for events.
I do appreciate the options to "reshuffle" models into other units ^^
Fantastic video! I’m super excited for ToW, and it was great to hear a critical, but enthusiastic voice for it too!
Would it be fair to say that the additions from the Arcane Journals function like Heresy’s Rites of War?
Yeah, sort of. They mostly change up the force organisation but they also add a couple of new units
Good video, really liked the way you summarised things, you didn't make PowerPoint slides or anything but i feel i got a bunch of useful info. Very interesting you found common ground between 5th ed Warhammer, now i was a youngster but i found 5th ed WHFB (and 2nd ed 40k!) utterly impenetrable compared to their descendants. I am very much looking forward to the other Arcane Journals, particularly the Hordes of Chaos one given that i can't help but feel Chaos can seem a bit bland when it's streamlined, i hope they have a good release cadence. Something i think is a shame is that without a more generic force org we miss out on things like generic Rites of War, so you can build interesting lists without needing your arcane journal. I hope we don't have to wait for new plastic kits to get some of the old ones back, there are some nice kits and the pricing doesn't seem that bad really.
Can’t wait for TOW. Glad you did a video. You are knowledgeable and friendly
You're right that there is no right way of releasing armies. However this method smells a lot of DLCs
I like this fun magic stuff. Nice video. Hopefully you do more. Keep up the good work.
I can’t believe they are not doing Vampire Counts, the way the books work are perfect for the different bloodlines.
As a retired Bretonnia player, I am so glad they’re starting with army boxes that aren’t Empire ones
Of HH I was put off by needing huge tomes. This release strikes a nice balanace
Sadly it's asclear as mud to me 😂 here's why and hoping you can clear things up kind sir. So I am someone who used to play Warhammer fantasy battle in the 90s and just decided to dip his toes in the water recently. When I saw old world it was like ah ha ill get this rather than age of sigmar as it harkens back to the good old days. Am I right in thinking there isn't a starter box for this like there is for Sigmar and Horus Heresy, it appears the Brettonian and Undead boxes only give you one army along with rule book, templates and dice. So for someone like me who only intends to play at home with family would need to buy an additional army set on top of the £200 or so on one of the boxes. I'm coming from the position that we have no prior games, figures or rulebooks. When compared to a starter set for Sigmar or 40k which contains all you need for £150 max Inc 2 armies and terrain in some instances this game seems to be a complete rip off, games workshop obviously see its players coming for miles. Back in my day WH and 40k boxed games were like £35 inflation in 30yrs is ridiculous. So I take it it would be cheaper to buy the rule book, 2 army sets and all other bits needed separately, correct? Any clarification you can provide would be appreciated thank you.
You're right that there's no two-army starter set for Old World. We don't know if there will be one in the future.
I don't know why, though it's likely they think this will sell better. Two-army starter sets are always a bit odd. SOME people buy it to play with just the contents of the set, especially kids and people new to the hobby. But usually the box doesn't contain enough models to make a full army for either faction and established players either don't buy, or buy and swap their unwanted half with someone else, doubling up on the same models.
I would guess that (like Horus Heresy) they see Old World as a game that's likely to be bought by established players who mostly want a full sized army to play other people with, rather than beginners who want two small forces to play with their siblings for example. And that by just saying 'which army do you want' you get a better selection than giving two halves of an army.
I don't know if you'll save money buying the rulebook and two 'army sets' because we don't yet know if there will be any smaller army sets available. It might be the case that this IS the size of an army set and the same sort of box (80-90 models and rulebook) will be released for each faction. No idea yet.
The most important question: does the box contain red whippy sticks?
Red whippy sticks and orange transparent templates!
@@ArbitorIan 🤗 Joy
Orange is such a weird choice! Where’s the old green!!!
@@Gage_Welch the templates in the age of darkness box are also orange, i imagine its just to save time/money on not having to print them in multiple colours. at least orange is the colour of most flames/explosions, so its fitting
@@exceldamage1861 yeah I'm not complaining
Not sure I like the Good and Evil split, as Tomb Kings are traditionally neutral.
Also totally agree regarding special characters. They should be the option. 8th did it quite nice with some of them, making them the centerpiece of weird skew lists.
Skellingtons 😊
Looking forward to the Old World. I have a Britonnian army that I put on the back burner. Just need to find everything.
Pretty gutted I have an old Ogre and Vampire Counts army and there is currently no plans to support these.
Thank you that helps clear things up.
Im defifnitely going to try this, i'll get /some movement tray adapters, don't fancy moving my Legion of Azgorh onto square bases 😆
Thanks for the vid Ian
I too last played in 5th.
I have ordered the main book and Ravening Hordes, but I'm going to be waiting for when they deign to release the faction box for Chaos.
From what I've seen online, much of the AoS range will be represented but I'm leery of buying a bunch of AoS stuff plus bases in case they do something weird when the models and journal are made available
I think the complaints are less about the little book, more about needing the chonky one when most of it is irrelevant. To their credit, at least the big book is divided by faction rather than intermingled like the dire 30k ones.
Reminds me of the 40k 3rd edition codex supplement books (e.g. Space Marine Codex plus Dark Angels supplement) without the downside of the staggered linked codex release, but in stead linked to the one time release Army list. So one could call them Army supplements?
Great video but fell off my chair laughing with the 'they want all the rules, but they don't want all the rules', sums up some the ranting thumb nail cringe videos out there
After seeing old world rules and the army lists, i sincerely think this is the best edition since 5th.
NGL I really like the smaller books. I started with 3rd edition Tyranids and that book felt small enough that I could keep the important stuff in my head. I find the sheer volume of rules bloat so off putting these days. I know that's how some people like it but it's not for me at all.
I also find that the rules go out of date so fast that releasing a codex with more than just fluff and art seems pointless. LoV were patched practically on release. Additionally you'd need to buy a book for every single army you own which seems costly and discourages me from buying more armies. I feel like a digital rule set is the way to go and put fluff books on the side.
Warhammer Fantasy lore is so good. I like it more than 40k at this point. All thanks to Total War Warhammer for introducing it to me.
there is a chance I'm just on the hype train but I;m really excited for old world and I'm digging out all my old fantasy (and some aos I can convert) to get my army ready for when my books arrive lol. thanks for these videos! =D
Great explanation of something that has been quite confusing.
Nice one! Thanks for this!
Thanks for the video Ian, it's very inspiring!
A question for the gray-haired ancients: I remember to have bought a box of three plastic skeleton horsemen in 1994, and I think the Tomb Kings skeletal horses are still the same sculpt. Am I right?
The horses I believe are. Not so sure on the riders.
There is another option for the rules. They could just release the rules and army lists as PDFs, that would also let them update them more regularly since they don't need to release a whole new book. But of course, that would deny them the ability to force everyone to buy multiple $60 books as well as tons of models.
They should release a digital version as well. Plenty of players like myself much prefer a physical book. Theyre easier to flick through quickly, dont drain your devices power and are just nicer to use. I do wish the various army books would go paperback though
Seize the means of rulebook production.
The only reason I don't like this is because designers use it as an excuse to make shitty rules. "We'll just patch any balance issues as they come up!" is a lot easier to say than when you have to have a final product.
Of course, that doesn't stop GW from releasing day one errata, but it's always the dream they have a well-tested set of rules printed out in books.
@@nekrataali Honestly, I think that's just not how it works. Most people want to make something good, and it being digital lets them do that more easily. When you have a hard copy that needs to be printed it means you need to lock work weeks ahead of distribution and if you discover issues in that time, I guess the book's just wrong forever now and everyone needs to use the book AND an online errata.
When it comes down to it, I'd rather have jank that can be fixed easily rather than have to pay $60 (+$60/army I want to play) for a probably, mostly correct ruleset every 3-4 years.
I love the alternate army lists, its very much like 6th edition.
More importantly, I dont think you mentioned whether you enjoyed your game or not?
Goddamn it!
Warhammer The Old World has appeared in YT algorithm due to my interest in skirmish games.
I played (use the word loosely) in the 80s as I enjoyed painting (badly) and followed along with White Dwarf, even if I disliked WH40k. Eventually moved on because I had zero interest in WH40k.
I recalled I had a set of the 1984 Warhammer Fantasy Battle rules. Sure enough, I still have yhe 3 booklet set:
Book 1: Combat
Book 2: Battle Magic
Book 3: Battle Bestiary
In true 80s fashion, you were dropped in the deep end without a paddle.
40 years have passed since then so will thumb through them to pick up the rules. Updated edition I suspect will be a LOT more user-friendly.
Bought HeroQuest because my Little Man is 7 1/2 and wanted to gently introduce him to fantasy gaming, as well as provide us with the opportunity to dip our toes into model painting (which I haven't done since 1989).
Whoah, reloaded yt and this dropped 45 sec ago!
I really hope this is a sign that they are going for a more old school fantasy/40k direction 🤞🙏
Thank you for the overview, it really helps a lot. I was a bit confused by the releases and this helps. I am not sure if I will jump on the bandwagon tho. I just got into LI and I am not sure if I want to invest in another GW game so soon, especially since my army of choice will be unsupported (Skaven).
Lets go in the end i choose a chaos army im waiting for the models to come and the rule books
I'm willing to bet that Kislev is going to get Arcane Journal update, eventually.
Yeah, I think this gives them the option of Kislev as a book or as a campaign supplement or as a Arcane Journal for the empire list.
@ArbitorIan I can't see GW ever going back to Kislev being a mere add-on for the Empire after having done all the work of redesigning and expanding their army list into an internal full-size 8th edition army book for the Creative Assembly to base the Total War version on, let alone after said version has had mass exposure and thus raised the bar for what's an acceptable tabletop release for Kislev. An Arcane Journal would be just about big enough if they do like they seem to be doing with the others and outsource most of the lore to campaign books, but I'd still expect (or at least advise) them to call it something else, as it's a different - actually required - kind of book.
Hi Ian, thanks for a great overview. For someone who isn’t really a player but loves the minis and lore/art which books would you say are worth it? Sounds like the forces books are mostly army lists so not ideal but are the arcane journals decently packed with lore and art or is it mostly rehash of the core book? (Already getting the core book with the bretonnia box).
Supposedly if Old World does well GW will move some armies out of Legacy and do a proper release for them? Looks like Skaven, Dark Elves and Vampire Counts are all legacy, which seems bizarre to me.
They will likely get full Old World releases when the armies are fully refreshed for AoS and legacy sculpts can be boxed purely for Old World.
Thanks always
Pretty funky!
you all reckon the books are going to disappear from print forever after 4 months ? not all but some of them ?
I think the arcane journals will work well for variant army lists but disagree completely with putting major characters such as Settra or the Green Knight into them. They're such a big part of their faction they should be in the main army list.
Why though? Special characters should be the exception not the norm.
@@thomassaxon8254 of course special characters should be the exception but I feel that if a character has an official released mini then it should have its stats in the appropriate army book. The journals can be used for special characters that people can kitbash/convert. Imagine if GW took the same approach with their Middle Earth game : "Here's the Forces of Mordor book - oh you want the stats for Sauron? Well you'll have to buy ANOTHER book".
@mikenolan73 different game, different way of playing. MESBG is built around the special characters and is hero centric. WFB shouldn't be.
This way it encourages people to not immediately go "I'll put the Green Knight into every game".
It's like 6th Ed in that way.
there is NO way that some fantasy armys will stay out of tournaments for long.
im 100% sure that we will get the other army sooner or later releaset together in another book.
and i say that as an old tounament player for 6th, 7th and 8th edition.
i mean chaos dwarfes and dark elves never had a big community behind them.
but scaven and ogre have a big bright and cheerful community behind them, and they make ATLEAST 10% of tournament players.
HOWEVER, there are still 2 of the MOST played armys missing, beeing vampires and lizardman, with vampires beeing in the TOP THREE of most played armys!!!!!!!!
Hmm unless your theme is the army of Sir Cecil, just like if your 40k army is a characters army so like my Space wolves army is the Deathwolves so Harald is almost always leading it but yeah the only think that saddens me is there isnt that many name characters
... yet. Campaign books - of which we know are coming - will have more of these. And as a Bretonnian: isn't half the fun making up your own characters epic story?
@@darnokx9277 That depends on the individual I would have like some more
I spend so much money on this stuff over time and felt like GW threw me under the bus when they cancelled it. I can’t say wizards are any better. I been playing Alien RPG with my group of teenagers as I am kind of like a social worker. I use it for social anxiety but I really don’t think GW will convince me to play
Sounds like some Kings of War influence in the rules
I suspect square based called it for the reason why GW wants to ban the legacy factions from old world…separate profit centre execs. Squabbling over profit sharing for AoS and Old World! Also explains why Skaven never got to 40K. Cynical I know, but anyone familiar with Corporate behaviour will recognise how execs behave when their ££££bonus is put in jeopardy! Nice video btw and thanks for sharing…quite logical, would all be better in an app though!
Cool 👍
JFC all you gotta do is get a god damn youtube channel and GW will send you a full product lineup FFS. How many of these went to stupid youtube channels instead of paying customers who ONCE AGAIN cannot get their hands on products!?
“They want all the rules, all at once, but they don’t want all the rules, all at once.”
No Ian, you were nearly there but you got it wrong. We want all the rules at once, but we _don’t_ want **all the armies in the same book.** Would it kill GW to write _multiple_ army books/codexes and release all them at launch _at the same time?_
I wayyyyyy prefer when 40k had special characters as purely optional. Same goes for fantasy for me.
More friendly to custom factions and avoids herohammer
LOL, on what planet you were born? In 99% of cases, herohammer is some stupid wombo-combo tryhard wargear cherrypick on generic character, most of special characters are written for fluff and don't have 1/10 of offensive output of generic crap. Point one SM character who could take smash captain in last FOUR editions, or Tau character who could match quad fusion iridium space suit, then we will talk. If anything, special characters LOWER the army power and open a lot of new, custom faction build options so wrong here too...