I've had a few questions on how to start playing competitive TF2, so I'm going to link 2 places to get started. The Newbie Mixes and TFCC run PUGs for new players and have mentors to teach you how to play competitive tf2! Newbie Mixes run on Fridays and TFCC runs the rest of the week. The newbie mixes also have a team drive that you can do where you sign up and get assigned to a team and mentor for a season! I think TFCC also does this but I'm not as familiar. You *MAY* need to play a standard class to start out. If you want to play flank-engie like I did, I HIGHLY recommend playing Flank Scout just so you can get an idea of what roles you're replacing (cleaning up kills, capping, flank support etc etc). You can hop around as well to pick out things that might also benefit from your personal main. I played Pocket Soldier up to Main before doing this, so I was able to pick out things that my role could have benefitted from and implemented them when I played Engineer. But if you're allowed to just hop in and play Engie/Pyro etc etc go for it and have fun! Newbie mixes have a website at: newbie.tf They have a steam group and discord! Both are linked on their website but as a quick link here's the discord: discord.gg/T5qPsQnAnW And TFCC has a discord as well! discord.com/servers/tf2-coaching-central-tf2cc-727627956058325052 This is the league I play in!: rgl.gg If you want to WATCH competitive TF2 I highly recommend checking out the RGL UA-cam channel and stream. I edit for them too! Also DolphiN runs the Twitch stream so say hi for me if you stop by. RGL UA-cam: www.youtube.com/@RGLgg RGL Twitch: twitch.tv/rglgg
I would ***highly*** recommend newbie mixes over tf2cc unless you're in for the tournaments they host every now and then, as pug running is very inconsistent, but newbie mixes is usually always a friendly environment as well as the fact that you get a coach for the duration.
Scout maps are better for engie by far over soldier maps. Just think of the matchup. If scouts are the impactful class, and you rocking +1 sentry. You gain consistency. Path of exile players call it a LAYER of defense. If enemies make it through some of your team, they now also need a way to focus down a sentry BEFORE your team starts getting picks
first of great video! But every "guide" on how to start playing comp tf2 mentions assets for north america seems impossible to start playing comp in Europe with a welcoming enviornment. no newbie mixes etc
I love that somebody actually went in trying to break the 6s meta and keep it fresh. I’ve been wanting to do something like this for forever and this video might actually push me over the edge in committing to spy in 6s lmao
@@ghost_ship_supreme Spy's the only truly unuseable class in 6s. With comms and low player counts and the knowledge that there's always a Spy on the enemy team you won't get any stabs. Spy's already very tough to get a kill with in 6s and that's with the enemy team not even trying or comming for a Spy at all. The only way it's viable is if you're top 1 global aim and just go Amby DM with the occasional backcap maybe.
Haha thanks! I know you're in Australia but I'm looking forward to running the cup with the Chucklenuts! And I'm sure you could do a much better telling of a season than I could lol.
I had a great time playing against you for this season! I was one of the solders in the Snakewater footage. I imagine the phrase "full-time engineer" intimidates a lot of 6s players, but honestly I felt our scrims against your team were very constructive and helped us think a bit more outside the box.
I don't recognize your name at the moment but I appreciate it! There were a lot of teams that I enjoyed scrimming and I even credited some in my frag movie that I made haha.
Having a sleepless night and found this video- haven't played community comp in well over 5 years, but you make me want to play it again. I miss it (and more importantly, my old teammates) greatly. Maybe I'd even like to experiment like you have. Great video, great production quality!
I took a break for a bit before this season so I understand missing your teammates. Since you've been gone pretty much everything in NA is on RGL now rather than ESEA or UGC if you're looking to hop back in and play a cup or a season etc. And thanks man I really appreciate it!
As someone who mains engineer who has never touched competitive due to only wanting to have some casual fun and not bothering to look into comp, this is interesting to say the least. This is the first video I have seen that has (IMO) properly showed off basic competitive TF2 and brushing on its meta. I didn’t even know the meta up until now! I really like the teamwork aspect and somewhat more aggressive play that competitive seems too have, and the strategy/preplanning that goes on before you even start the match. now I am heavily considering trying out competitive, and will most definitely look into it further. Thanks for the amazing video! I’ll be waiting for the competitive engineer video. (patiently, but eagerly)
That's the best feedback I could have gotten! I really appreciate it. And it'll probably be a while with school and work, but I'm HOPING that I can get it out by the summer.
It was a few seconds I thought "Didn't we fight this guys team?" and it appears we did, it was fun to see what we had to do against something we had never seen before
I have no want to play TF2 competitively, but it is always nice to hear people are playing it differently than what the formula is. This was a fun watch and can only hope there are balance changes brought on from Valve to make all weapons viable in these types of formats. Great video
Competitive 6s is a really fascinating topic I enjoy listening to and learning about, and if I had the energy and focus, I would definitely want to get into it, but I've got health problems that would definitely prevent that.
@@simplysmiley4670 i blame valve honestly, they only took account of the comp scene, they shouldve made it rechargeable so it could be used in a casual setting
I would love to play Competitive tf2 but i dont want to use third party stuff to do it, if tf2 offical comp queue is alive, i would probably be playing it a lot
It's a small thing but it's really cool hearing someone be like "yeah this was my fault as team leader, this is what I did wrong and this is what I learned from that"
I've never played competitive in my 1500+ hours of TF2, but this might be what motivates me to give it a shot. Great video, love your insight, explanations, and editing.
I loved the polish and organisation of this video, almost everything here oozes love for tf2 comp that few youtubers have successfully articulated, you practiced and worked as hard on this video as you did in scrims and demo reviews
Thanks man! I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I try! I really wanted to make it work and I'm really happy I did. I'm just hoping other can be at least a *little* less intimidated by 6s and the meta.
beautiful storytelling. if I hadn't already played comp TF2, this is probably the most convincing video I've watched as for why you should give it shot.
Never played comp but I love to watch it. I much love the more "wacky" games and play styles, it keeps me and probably other viewers more engaged and wanting to watch. I totally agree with less bans to help make things more fresh. The point you brought up about the vestibules was a really cool one and I'd never thought about.
this was so cool and inspirational! i havent played tf2 in like a year but it makes me want to play competitively, at least just to try it! very cool video and props to what youre doing for the community :D
Go for it! Like I said in the pinned comment I recommend the newbie mixes! I don't have too much experience with TFCC but I've heard they're really good as well. And thank you!
Thanks for the video! I have never played comp before, but I've always been interested about offclassing in competitive play, and your video provides a lot of information about how to play engineer. Nice job making it to playoffs!
I'll be making a video more in depth specifically about playing engineer in 6s! It'll probably be a while before it comes out though, I'm shooting for around summertime if I can. And thank you!
this video was way more interesting, hype and entertaining than any video titled "I played engineer in 6s" has any right to be. super fun vid, great storytelling editing etc. but also the way you led your team and you guys played was great too. gg all round lads
I love this video. In competitive games the meta is almost always not the best way to play the game. Its not being contrarian its just applying better game sense approaches. I also think global bans are stupid in any competitive game
Thanks I appreciate it! And yeah I see that commonly, I think the issue is that many players just want to emulate what the 1st place team does in different games and that just slowly becomes the meta, regardless if it fits their team style or not. I'm hoping TF2 can become more inclusive as time goes on and it looks like that it's possible through RGL and players in North America thankfully.
Your point about people not understanding how to play 5cp spills over into most casual games. A huge portion of players don't care about actually winning a round and just play TF2 to deathmatch and farm killstreaks.
Great video. I wish you were more in depth on how playing engineer went through. Like what your thought process was, or how teleporters factored in . I really hope the 6s meta becomes more open to all the classes.
Next video! It'll probably be called "HOW to play Engineer in 6s", it'll likely be a while before it comes out, I'm shooting for around the summer given I'm pretty busy.
this video is really awesome, hits a niche for me ive always wanted with tf2 youtube. typically competitive tf2 players are too busy getting really good at the game and mostly just stream instead of making high production tf2 vids like uncle dane or whatever, so a lot of their videos giving advice are like an hour long and unedited. which is fine and very educational still, but is mainly for the already competitively minded player and doesnt do much to draw in the casual crowd IMO. this video does a really cool job bridging the 2, combining competitive level analysis, good video production, a fun story AND an interesting video concept to shake things up. really, this is super refreshing and exciting. not just for the fun of shaking up 6s meta, but the tf2 youtube meta as well! instant sub
Yeah that's pretty accurate! My personal niche is what I'm calling comp-ish. Where I cover competitive topics and how to incorporate them into your normal gameplay in a Casual or Competitive match. And thanks!
Out of all the 'playing/maining Medic' guides I've seen, not one of them mentioned crouching inside of a dispenser to minimize some damage in an attempt to keep Uuber progress. For teaching me something new on the path to learning all the ins and outs of my favorite class to play, I am subscribing. :) Thanks!
You're welcome! And thanks! I don't think I've seen Dispenser Armor mentioned in any medic videos, but I've seen it mentioned in Engineer videos commonly, usually in Uncle Dane videos or competitive Engineer guides (which aren't popular outside of competitive TF2 so I understand you not seeing them). Just keep in mind that splash damage (Rockets, stickied etc) can still hit you! It's just hitscan that gets blocked.
@@QueeQuey Thanks again. I've actually been testing with this information against various classes. a good deal of pistol fire and most of snipers riffles are thwarted (at least once) by the Dispenser. The obvious exception on Sniper is the Machina, as with more charge comes piercing for the rounds. I'm now wondering what other classes have potential positive interaction for someone working to become a Medic Main.
Honestly, this is the kind of shit i live for, coming up with off meta strats to force other teams to adapt. It really tests the flexibility of teams and players in sixes and its fun as hell to see
I clicked this video on a lark. This was actually super informative and interesting. I'm an engie/med main and i was always curious how an engie would shake things up in the competitive meta. Like it was mentioned at the start of the video, i assumed the meta had been figured out long ago, so the team compositions made sense. It's so interesting to see how much of a shake up an engie could make
There are a few shakeups that are still around. As I've said in many other comments, I think Pyro would be easier to integrate onto a 6s team, and we even saw a team run full-time pyro on Bagel this season in Invite. They lost both games they did (against Froyotech and G6), but with some refinement I could see them doing better/beating froyo in that match. Some weapons being unrestricted could also change the meta a little bit. Ex. If Disciplinary Action was unbanned the rollout to mid would be far more interesting (I say this as a pocket soldier, who would be the person you'd have run it). But on the other hand unbanning something like the Base Jumper wouldn't do anything (just like the Buffalo Steak unban this season didn't change anything in RGL).
Incredible video man. Excellent content, I really agree with the vestibule idea, I had never even thought of that, I truly think it would fix a lot of stalemate and weapon ban related issues Also love that you’ve trying to advance the meta, TF2 could definitely use that being an older game. Good stuff
Yeah it's something that I'd really like to try and experiment with to see if it nerfs last holds in general as right now it can be really hard to push last. And thanks man, appreciate it!
What a video, a awesome view of the thought process of competitive tf2, I’m only a casual player but I really want to get better at this game, this inspires me to play and continue a slogging journey of the skill ceiling of this game
This is insane to see this side of the community. Having played this game at the most casually possible level for like 10 years I just started playing again and this video shows in my feed. Comp is a very interesting part of this game
I'm actually doing full time Engineer in Main this season. Granted we aren't a normal team at all (not scrimming and running full time Pyro as well) it's had some interesting results. While the season isn't over yet, I just wanted to comment that I disagree with your Clearcut analysis, and I think part of the issue you had is not taking into account that Clearcut has plenty of places to build level 3's and it's relatively easy to do since there's so much cover. You can build it in the bunker, to the left of point, behind your bunker to deal with bombers, on the little pillar on the left, and even behind the crate so they don't see it right away (doesn't directly fight point but does watch left and right), or even on top of the crate during a fight if it goes down. I also had success sneaking level 2/3's into their main building after a wipe and got some kills there. Won both matches on it and only dropped 1 round (second match was played unofficially which is why it shows up as forfeit). Metalworks is also a decent map for level 3's. Bagel is great, too, and that dispenser spot is the same one I used, as well as that sneaky forward sentry spot, though with a leveled gun instead of a mini. 5CP is a concern imo, but generally speaking the KotH maps in current rotation are pretty good for Engineer.
The issue I had with level 3s on Clearcut was edging the point as you said, which most teams did if I ever put my gun in Shed. It's a good place to bunker fully, but it was really rare to get a team to commit that far. Also I don't have a pyro, so I'm not sure how much that changed the dynamic. In my experience on clearcut it was more of if the enemy team learned what we were doing at all they could change the dynamic of the game very easily, but if they were like the majority of the teams we would face, we would roll. Yeah Metal was great for leveled guns! And Bagel was my favorite map by far, you can build on everything! I loved mixing the gun spot in Bagel from the center of the room, to closer to point, back toward the staris, and finally onto the computers once they got used to a gun somewhere else and would caught in, it was great! I generally didn't have issues with 5CP in general, the only problem map was Process, and it still wasn't that bad. Personally I'd rather play something like Snakewater over Product or Clearcut, but my team has always been more of a 5CP team rather than a KOTH team so it's probably team dependent. But I'm glad to hear someone else is doing it! The only other person that I know that was thinking about doing it with us was Austin from Yeye, so it's cool to have a few more people out there trying off-meta stuff!
dudeeee this was such an enjoyable video. thank you for taking us with you on the season long journey. it really makes me want to get into comp in TF2, I've only done like 3 placements in the last 5 years lmao.
When u started talking about 5cp i got flashbacks to when i got dropped in a Sunshine match that lasted an hour and a half, on the first round. It was one of my first tf2 games (first week i started playing) and i never felt so miserable
This man is pogged out of his mind! Great showcase of how an engi with the Gunslinger is a very versatile specialist, and I hope to see more breaking of the 6s' mold done with Pyro, who can be similar in that respect. At any rate, best TF2 gameplay video I have seen in the past few weeks. Kudos!
I agree! I played Pyro in PUGs and I'm definitely a believer. I think Pyro's kit is really versatile at least in RGL where there aren’t any weapon bans for Pyro (except for the Reserve Shooter). Using the detonator or scorch shot for chipping away HP / ruining crit heals, items like the thermal thruster and third degree being good for sacs (as well as Flames passing through people helps) etc etc. Obviously airblast is great too, but I haven't mastered it yet, so I don't think I can confidently talk about all the intricacies of how it can be used in 6s. Maybe a brave high level Highlander Pyro can take on that mantle. If there's enough interest maybe I'd do it myself but we'll see!
@@QueeQuey haha yeah. While Pyro is versatile he isn't a "Strong" class in terms of power, and trying to incorporate him into a 6s team will take someone well versed in the class. In general I dream that we can get a few more tweaks to weapons and classes, which might shift things a little (but probably, and hopefully, never to the point where the current meta isn't a streamlined choice for a 5cp match)
Yeah Pyro's pure burst damage isn't high generally speaking (except with the dragon's fury), but I do think that on an attentive team Pyro can be a huge thorn in the enemy's side. I would say that of all of the classes that aren't in the current meta, Pyro is probably the easiest to incorporate. I know Jay (top level player) is a believer as well. If you're not someone who generally watches competitive matches a near full-time pyro was run by the #3 team in Invite. They lost 4-0 both games, but I think that with some refinement they could have won the one against Froyotech (and maybe gotten a round or two off of G6). Personally I think for ease of running a non-standard class full-time would be: Pyro > Sniper > Enginer > Heavy >>>> Spy. Here are the links to the matches if you're interested, GPG is the team that ran Pyro: GPG vs G6: ua-cam.com/video/YGMt5hlJ4IE/v-deo.html GPG vs Froyotech: ua-cam.com/video/p1IqXBS9wYc/v-deo.html
This was a genuinely thought-provoking video. I've rarely played TF2, and even then only in public lobbies, but I see a lot of similarities between it and my personal main game, Splatoon. Currently, we've got similar issues with centralized meta in mid- to high-level competitve scene, often seeing teams running three of the same weapon with rare departures from the formula. Our meta is a bit like 3 Scout - 1 Demo, with those three being the undisputed best weapon and kit in the game, and the last typically being a mid to long range weapon that can serve as an anchor. I'll save the detailed game descriptions for another place and time, but still TLDR: I really appreciate a detailed guide on how to approach an off-meta composition. Noting that sometimes you do have to switch to other roles or classes to do what you need to do, and including your thought process, makes for extremely valuable commentary.
I'll be doing a video on "How to play Engineer in 6s", and it should be my next edited video. But I'm glad you enjoyed it! I never played Splatoon but I've heard good things about it. A stale anti-experimental metagame in a game that has a loadout/character system is never good from my experience. Some people will have their favorites and a distinct playstyle, so restricting that is disappointing. Having the meta be flowing like in Melee is always great to see as a viewer.
I'm not in high school anymore, and most video games leave a bad taste in my mouth by now -- but this video was a new topic and it gave me a vivid feeling that this was what video games could really mean to people in a constructive way, and not just as an afternoon time waster. sincerest compliments and stick with it
Pyro's almost playable. I know some teams have played around with it a bit. The main issue is just getting melted by Scouts. If you had like god Flare aim you could maybe make it work. Powerjack + reflect jumps gives you great mobility and Pyro can't be airshot when bombing Medics (because the rocket will get reflected into the Med) so any spam at a choke can become a guaranteed Med pick for a Pyro. It's interesting for sure, but the Scouts thing is ROUGH.
Fulltime pyro honestly has a lot going for it. The double gunboat meta means airblast gives you a good matchup vs everyone but the scouts, you have tools to keep up with your team better than other off-meta classes and none of pyro's unlocks are banned in modern rgl 6s. 2 loadouts stand out to me as being maybe kinda viable: Dragons Fury - Detonator - Powerjack Degreaser - Stock/Panic Attack - Powerjack Would be really interesting to see if someone could make it work.
@@neutraldalek4222 I'd just like to throw out there that if the Soldier knows the matchup in a 1v1 Gunboats is favoured vs Pyro. 0% of 6s players know the matchup and nobody will ever try to learn it (because "ew, Pyro" in MGE) but theoretically they're favoured. The strategy is that you bomb the Pyro and fire one rocket at them, then you try to MG them. If they reflect the rocket, they can't airblast you away and instadie to gardener. If they airblast your garden away, they get hit with a 100 damage guaranteed rocket for free. The only possible out is for the Pyro to reflect airshot you with the rocket, which is borderline impossible if you airstrafe your garden to come from a super different angle. This is less relevant when it comes to actual 6s play because usually your Pyro would likely be a hardcore combo piece stuck to your Med/Demo but if he's ever caught in 1v1s he is unfavoured even vs gunboats.
@@mooncalf_4534 That kind of bomb feels like it wouldn't be something you could pull off even semi-consistently in a real game. But I don't really have the soldier experience to say for sure.
36:27 The funny thing about the wrangler, is that the literal only reason it is overpowered is the shield. If it didn't have the "triple sentry health for free" shield, it would be well balanced.
Yeah pretty much. Still very strong for a defensive engineer but it wouldn't be a must-pick for offensive engineers in higher level environments. I would love to see it get a nerf some day.
@@QueeQuey If only it got nerfed, I wanna see how viable it would stay and see nerfed version potentially explored in comp, especially as full time engy 🙏
Good on you for pushing the envelope on more potential strategies. I like Highlander a lot more than 6s, but I'd love to play full time Pyro to protect the Medic, rocket reflects and all.
This is a great example why people sticking too a meta too much gets them destroyed by classes like Engineer which punish them for what normally would be an acceptable play. People stop being good at the game but rather good at the meta. This is why a lot of games get a toxic relation between casual and comp with Smash Bros being the best example. Everyone is trying to defend their wounded pride in an imperfect system acting like there is a correct way to play forgetting to just play the game. That just because you do well in casual or competitive doesn't mean you'll show the same promise outside of your niche.
Great video, I love seeing people giving permanent off-classing a shot. Not surprised you play in RGL, ETF2L is way more conservative and I think quite a few teams here would have refused to even play against your team. I once tried running gunslinger engie on Product and the enemy team ended the scrim.
Neat video, it's cool to see someone trying something new that goes against the stale 6s meta. I tried getting into comp tf2 a couple times and did tryouts but after encounters with toxic assholes I kinda threw up my hands and said "fuck this" and never touched comp again. It's cool to see people sticking with competitive tf2 and putting a new spin on it after all of these years.
Excellent video! I'm very new and green to competitive, and while I highly doubt beginner pugs will allow off-classes it brings a big smile to my face that playing my favorite class is somewhat viable in 6s.
Beginner PUGs typically don't, but they might after a longer night / with a really knowledgeable runner. And yeah! I think Engie is a decent option in 6s! The hardest maps are definitely Process, and Sunshine but if you're willing to adjust or play scout a little bit you can make it work! And thank you!
Man you explain this really good. Perhaps you can make a video how to get into tf2 competitive? Because a lot of players just see this high level strats and hard terminology and miss tf2's wonderful pro scene)
I work for RGL as well (the North American League) and I'm working on a few things over there for guides (ex. I'm dropping a new Callout video for Metalworks on Tuesday). The only thing is that we generally don't want to tell people how to play and accidentally enforce a meta. I'll be doing a guide on this channel on how to play Pocket Soldier some day, but for RGL I'm working on some new player / new team leader guides. As a quick answer, right now the best way to get into competitive TF2 is through the Newbie Mixes at newbie.tf. They run PUGs every Friday and have mentors to teach you how to play. They also run a team drive every season for players to sign up and be assigned to teams with a mentor. The Tf2 coaching central is also good but I don't have their link.
To add on to this- if you want the quick and dirty method of dipping your toes into competitive formats, open up TF2Center, link your steam and join some games. It doesn't take too long if you play on popular hours, and you can find a game while playing a casual match. Note that you can only offclass from the standard 6s lineup extensively in an Offclassing= Allowed tagged game. Good luck entering the fun man.
Awesome commentary. Just came across this video today, and lets just say I binged a whole bunch of your vids. While I'm not a part of the competitive community due to commitment issues, I do have some interest in it. Love your videos man!
If you do ever want to play for a bit without committing for a long time, a cup would be a good choice for you (they last 2 days, with day 1 for pools and day 2 just for the teams that made playoffs). RGL PUGs is already in open-Alpha as well so hopefully later on it'll be more accessible. Also in the pinned comment I left some links to places that run PUGs for new players! And thanks mate! I appreciate it!
man, you really have me wanting to get into comp for the 10th time. there's just an itch i've never been able to scratch since being forced to leave the comp scene in the previous game i played
Expected a video that went like "We trolled, it kinda worked but it was moreso funny." But instead this was a really interesting attempt to ground break 6s meta.
I know it was just an EXTREMELY small part of the video, but I fully agree that the Wrangler needs to be nerfed, possibly into the ground. Being able to extend your sentry's reach taking manual control is powerful enough. The damage reduction bubble is NOT needed. If they want to keep it, drop it down to like 20% reduction or something. Short circuit only needs a small nerf: Unable to gain metal when it's deployed (like beggar's bazooka); and that's coming from a Demo main. But, on topic to the video. While I've never really played competitive, even though I have 12k+ hours, this video was actually pretty enjoyable. My biggest issue with 6s is I always found the meta to be kinda stale...though I do understand why it is the way it is. Full timing a different class was actually a refreshing change to watch. Thanks for video explaining the whole process. Keep up the good work.
When wrangling you cannot both shoot with and repair your sentry. That's why it's there. Without wrangling you could tank damage with repairs. I can certainly understand why it is bad for 6s where the strategy is to just have the sentry as a damage sponge and then immediately switch when it goes down, but for 12v12 or highlander it is certainly not overpowered as there is way more collective ammo available before reload in the attacking team.
Hey, just wanted to let you know that I thought this video had great pacing and story telling. I barely play TF2 now and have never played competitive, but this video was great to watch, keep going!
Hey, thanks! And that's the goal! Hoping to get out a "How to play engineer in 6s" video out around the summer before getting back to my normal Soldier content.
I've never heard of you, and I don't care too much for Engie. But Wow, this video went way above and beyond what I was expecting. I was expecting just some random PUGS with a typical analysis of "It's really not that bad!" like everything else in this game gets. Not someone who was putting in the hours with vod reviews and testing spots. I think you inspired me to give Comp tf2 a try and you totally earned a sub. Look forward to seeing more content!
Haha to be fair before I started this season I pugged as Engie and Pyro. But yeah I spent a ton of time going over maps and demo reviewing etc for the season. If I was going to do it, I wanted to make sure I did it right and fully commit to figuring out how to get Engie to work. And thanks! I always like hearing people becoming more interested in competitive tf2!
In Ozfortress there was a team that played like this for a few seasons. One scout, one soldier, one pyro, a demo, a med and the last player flexed engie, heavy, sniper, spy. They did pretty well but there seemed to be a skill cutoff around the middle of intermediate (2nd highest div in ozfort) where they just got rolled by every team. My theory is that this was due to increasing levels of team coordination that better allowed for dealing with the offclasses. My team ended up playing in a deathball that would constantly rotate away from their team and either out-spam them or pick off people who got disconnected from their combo, once we figured out this strat we never lost a map to them. At the end of the day, the sixes classes are the sixes classes because they have the highest mobility and once teams get good enough to abuse this they'll beat perma offclassing every time.
I don't think I'd swap 2 of the core classes in the current meta, especially for an extra pyro given ozfortress's whitelist banning scorch shot AND detonator (Pyro has no weapon bans in RGL besides Reserve Shooter) and those are super important for medium to long range pyro harassment here. I think that with a lot of work pretty much any class can work, you just have to strategize and other teams have to steategize against you. I know Jay (one of the best NA players) and some of the other top Invite players feel the same way, it's just a matter of that experimentation losing them games to figure out what they need to do / they aren't good enough on those classes at that level. I think GPG (3rd place Invite team) playing perma-pyro on Bagel is interesting, I'm hoping they add some refinement to make it work, but we'll see.
@@QueeQuey I think there was also a team at one of the rewind lans (or another lan around that time) that ran their roamer on flex offclass most of the time but I can't remember their name unfortunately. My personal feeling with offclasses (low-mid prem player) is that in the short term teams should be able to develop strats for them that can win them some games, but in a theoretical hyper-developed meta where almost every strategy has been explored I think it's either going to be the classic sixes line up or a perma sniper line up that will turn out to be the best.
@@strawbunnyfps Probably. But the fully-explored meta is something that won't happen due to people needing to be perfect players, and that's asking too much. I do think that having offclasses as a shakeup is something that's very undervalued, especially in North America. In NA there are just some teams that can pause the game, talk about what they need to change in a few minutes, then adapt and reverse the game to a winning situation. In those cases I think proactively changing strategy is something that should be done to pre-adapt to the other team.
The problem is yhat they off classed too hard, bro they only got one scout and one soldier one med and one demo and then perma pyro and flex engy/heavy/sniper/spy. That's just too much. That's why off meta can probably only work if you sacrifice flank scout(for Engy) or pocket scout(for pyro), I don't see anything else working for a long time 😅
I do wish you went over the strengths and weakness of having an engineer on your team, as you spent most of the video reciting how different sixes matches went. Still though, this was a really fantastic idea, and I enjoyed watching it :)
My next video will likely be called "How to play Engineer in 6s" that'll cover it. This was just more of a story video for the season. I originally wrote them together but got 13 failed scripts deep before I decided to split them up into 2 parts and make this first. I'm hoping to get the 2nd done around the summer if I can.
Most competitive games will always role towards a stale meta but man TF2 is so much fun when everything is allowed . I'm in a weird estate where I never really dipped into comp TF2 but I love you know actually trying hard and coordinating and have map strategies So i usually play in community maps with a few friends who are on the same boat playing tp win always but with all the wacky stuff, kinda like even if I'm doing something dumb like leveling a man melter I'm still trying, and this is why I find casual so irritating it isn't supposed to be tryhard city but man sometimes people just sit there in a corner doing nothing It's so nice to see someone trying to shake the 14 year old meta i swear 6s was figured out in like the first couple of years of TF2's lifetime
Haha I know exactly what you mean. Don't get me wrong, I still really enjoy the social aspects of TF2 and being able to hangout etc, and if that part of the game was gone I'd be really disappointed. But my favorite part of TF2 is the core gameplay loop and playing to win, being the class that the team needs etc etc. And that goes for Casual and Competitive.
@@QueeQuey bingo, a lot of people think TF2 success is just on the goofy shit and that's a good part of it, but honestly the core of TF2 is awesome gameplay it's got a solid 9 years of development at release and then another ten years of refining and tunning on top of that, funny hats and dances are great and iconic , but the core gameplay is something no other fps has And as the highest comp players like Benny show thanks to the source engine and just no limits of the game, you can always get better Even as a wee f2p trying to win was fun pushing to land more shots and not get killed so fast was great fun
A couple notes from moments in this. "Enemy team ragequits when losing" - I personally think if this happens during a match, not a scrim, the enemy team should be struck with a penalty for the behavior. Going totally stale is what kills comp in games, and that's basically them saying "well we didn't lose to the meta, so we didn't lose" by leaving. "Enemy team denies a time slot then scrims during it" - Another thing I truly think should be struck with some kind of penalty, this kind of thing, as it seems like a team HOPING they can cause issues, and force a lose, which they did... But since you still won 2 matches during that I'd say they still didn't do 100% well against this. "We did have multiple teams in play-offs reach out to scrim us" - Now THIS is a good thing to hear, the fact that they wanted to have an unusual team to play against, because it meant more fun matches then the stock standard meta team comps. "Crushing the other team on both of the maps in play-offs, them refusing to adapt" - Can see why they'd be considered toxic, they likely considered your team not even worth the effort, but HAD to fight you now, and would likely have quit if it was just scrims. Crushing them proves their failures and is absolutely fantastic. Overall it seems like good players wanna play with different classes. Bad players, or rather players who are more toxic want the meta to remain because they can't adapt as well. I've seen multiple videos on this kind of idea and it always has multiple issues with players not wanting to scrim teams with different designs.
The game against Froyo on Bagel was really close for the first half. I think if they worked with it more they could have taken a few rounds. And thanks man!
When you have so few players, I see the role of engineer as having 6+1 You can die but there is still an HP pool with a gun left somewhere covering a respawn and removing a disadvantage. Really neat
That reasoning is pretty much why engineer is a staple for last holds. The sentry is a +1 on last and you can swap back to scout while sitting in spawn. And yeah! I don't think it's a fully +1 when I'm dead (given how easily sentries are destroyed by higher skilled players), but I've gotten some VERY cheeky kills with the gun post-death, my favorite being med kills and drops but I don't think I included any in this video since you'd really have to be watching the killfeed lol.
![[TF2] Unhelpful Engineer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KH9Z9DFbvUk/mqdefault.jpg)
I've had a few questions on how to start playing competitive TF2, so I'm going to link 2 places to get started. The Newbie Mixes and TFCC run PUGs for new players and have mentors to teach you how to play competitive tf2! Newbie Mixes run on Fridays and TFCC runs the rest of the week. The newbie mixes also have a team drive that you can do where you sign up and get assigned to a team and mentor for a season! I think TFCC also does this but I'm not as familiar. You *MAY* need to play a standard class to start out. If you want to play flank-engie like I did, I HIGHLY recommend playing Flank Scout just so you can get an idea of what roles you're replacing (cleaning up kills, capping, flank support etc etc). You can hop around as well to pick out things that might also benefit from your personal main. I played Pocket Soldier up to Main before doing this, so I was able to pick out things that my role could have benefitted from and implemented them when I played Engineer. But if you're allowed to just hop in and play Engie/Pyro etc etc go for it and have fun!
Newbie mixes have a website at: newbie.tf
They have a steam group and discord! Both are linked on their website but as a quick link here's the discord:
discord.gg/T5qPsQnAnW
And TFCC has a discord as well!
discord.com/servers/tf2-coaching-central-tf2cc-727627956058325052
This is the league I play in!: rgl.gg
If you want to WATCH competitive TF2 I highly recommend checking out the RGL UA-cam channel and stream. I edit for them too! Also DolphiN runs the Twitch stream so say hi for me if you stop by.
RGL UA-cam:
www.youtube.com/@RGLgg
RGL Twitch:
twitch.tv/rglgg
I would ***highly*** recommend newbie mixes over tf2cc unless you're in for the tournaments they host every now and then, as pug running is very inconsistent, but newbie mixes is usually always a friendly environment as well as the fact that you get a coach for the duration.
Scout maps are better for engie by far over soldier maps. Just think of the matchup. If scouts are the impactful class, and you rocking +1 sentry. You gain consistency. Path of exile players call it a LAYER of defense. If enemies make it through some of your team, they now also need a way to focus down a sentry BEFORE your team starts getting picks
first of great video!
But every "guide" on how to start playing comp tf2 mentions assets for north america seems impossible to start playing comp in Europe with a welcoming enviornment. no newbie mixes etc
“Get off engie or we bait” that was one of the highlights of scrims
What's baiting
What's scrims
What's engie
What is love
@@Kapech_the_first baby don’t hurt me.
The enemy team finding a ringer for you is a great show of sportsmanship
Absolutely! It was nice of them to do so.
I love that somebody actually went in trying to break the 6s meta and keep it fresh. I’ve been wanting to do something like this for forever and this video might actually push me over the edge in committing to spy in 6s lmao
Check out @CoolstuffTF2 he is a dope spy 6s player
you should do it would love to see that
Do it! I’d love to see this if you’re a god at spy and can pull it off! I’d root for you… :)
@@ghost_ship_supreme Spy's the only truly unuseable class in 6s. With comms and low player counts and the knowledge that there's always a Spy on the enemy team you won't get any stabs. Spy's already very tough to get a kill with in 6s and that's with the enemy team not even trying or comming for a Spy at all. The only way it's viable is if you're top 1 global aim and just go Amby DM with the occasional backcap maybe.
@@ghost_ship_supreme lmao you could be the best spy player in the world but once the opponent knows you're running spy, it becomes literally useless
This was a super interesting watch! You've given me that itch to play competitive again...
Haha thanks! I know you're in Australia but I'm looking forward to running the cup with the Chucklenuts! And I'm sure you could do a much better telling of a season than I could lol.
Come mge
cool
A short but awesome career elmaxo. Hate to see you go but it was great while it lasted
I had a great time playing against you for this season! I was one of the solders in the Snakewater footage. I imagine the phrase "full-time engineer" intimidates a lot of 6s players, but honestly I felt our scrims against your team were very constructive and helped us think a bit more outside the box.
I don't recognize your name at the moment but I appreciate it! There were a lot of teams that I enjoyed scrimming and I even credited some in my frag movie that I made haha.
oh hi grey
@damsen978god damn
@@QueeQueydo you plan to make a guide to engi in 6s
Having a sleepless night and found this video- haven't played community comp in well over 5 years, but you make me want to play it again. I miss it (and more importantly, my old teammates) greatly. Maybe I'd even like to experiment like you have. Great video, great production quality!
I took a break for a bit before this season so I understand missing your teammates. Since you've been gone pretty much everything in NA is on RGL now rather than ESEA or UGC if you're looking to hop back in and play a cup or a season etc. And thanks man I really appreciate it!
As someone who mains engineer who has never touched competitive due to only wanting to have some casual fun and not bothering to look into comp, this is interesting to say the least. This is the first video I have seen that has (IMO) properly showed off basic competitive TF2 and brushing on its meta. I didn’t even know the meta up until now! I really like the teamwork aspect and somewhat more aggressive play that competitive seems too have, and the strategy/preplanning that goes on before you even start the match. now I am heavily considering trying out competitive, and will most definitely look into it further.
Thanks for the amazing video!
I’ll be waiting for the competitive engineer video. (patiently, but eagerly)
That's the best feedback I could have gotten! I really appreciate it. And it'll probably be a while with school and work, but I'm HOPING that I can get it out by the summer.
the dispenser climbing is fire
It was a few seconds I thought "Didn't we fight this guys team?" and it appears we did, it was fun to see what we had to do against something we had never seen before
Nice
I have no want to play TF2 competitively, but it is always nice to hear people are playing it differently than what the formula is. This was a fun watch and can only hope there are balance changes brought on from Valve to make all weapons viable in these types of formats. Great video
Competitive 6s is a really fascinating topic I enjoy listening to and learning about, and if I had the energy and focus, I would definitely want to get into it, but I've got health problems that would definitely prevent that.
ehhhhh it ruined the caber when they tried, so dunno about that
@@simplysmiley4670 i blame valve honestly, they only took account of the comp scene, they shouldve made it rechargeable so it could be used in a casual setting
@@mdbgamer556 there are pug server that you can play in so you dont need to commit to learning
I would love to play Competitive tf2 but i dont want to use third party stuff to do it, if tf2 offical comp queue is alive, i would probably be playing it a lot
I love your willingness to take responsibility for the bad things that happen to your team. It’s a good leadership quality.
It's a small thing but it's really cool hearing someone be like "yeah this was my fault as team leader, this is what I did wrong and this is what I learned from that"
I've never played competitive in my 1500+ hours of TF2, but this might be what motivates me to give it a shot. Great video, love your insight, explanations, and editing.
Thanks I really appreciate it! Feedback like that is great to hear! If you give it a shot just remember to relax and have fun!
I loved the polish and organisation of this video, almost everything here oozes love for tf2 comp that few youtubers have successfully articulated, you practiced and worked as hard on this video as you did in scrims and demo reviews
Thanks man! I'm glad you enjoyed it. And I try! I really wanted to make it work and I'm really happy I did. I'm just hoping other can be at least a *little* less intimidated by 6s and the meta.
This is some of the coolest Comp stuff I've seen. Great vid and plays mate!
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
God, even half a year later, this is still one of my favorite videos of the year, maybe my favorite competitive-based TF2 video ever
beautiful storytelling. if I hadn't already played comp TF2, this is probably the most convincing video I've watched as for why you should give it shot.
Never played comp but I love to watch it. I much love the more "wacky" games and play styles, it keeps me and probably other viewers more engaged and wanting to watch. I totally agree with less bans to help make things more fresh. The point you brought up about the vestibules was a really cool one and I'd never thought about.
Haha I understand that. And yeah the vestibule thing hasn't really been talked about in recent years but I think it's a discussion worth having!
I absolutely despise playing Engineer and don’t really play comp at all, but this video is absolutely fantastic. Not even exaggerating. Great job!
Thanks mate!
Watching you play engi and destroying people not only with your sentry, but your shotgun as well feel so good
this was so cool and inspirational! i havent played tf2 in like a year but it makes me want to play competitively, at least just to try it! very cool video and props to what youre doing for the community :D
Go for it! Like I said in the pinned comment I recommend the newbie mixes! I don't have too much experience with TFCC but I've heard they're really good as well. And thank you!
You seem like the type of guy who never dissapoints.
I try not to :P
Are you IM yet?
@@tokey2423 keep yourself safe :D
This is absolutely so well put together. No holding up on each round for a 4 hour video. Definitely worth the follow
Glad you enjoyed it!
Incredible dude! as Tf2s lifespan goes on, Engineer seems to be getting more and more ingenious uses for his play style, brilliant to see this!
Thanks for the video! I have never played comp before, but I've always been interested about offclassing in competitive play, and your video provides a lot of information about how to play engineer. Nice job making it to playoffs!
I'll be making a video more in depth specifically about playing engineer in 6s! It'll probably be a while before it comes out though, I'm shooting for around summertime if I can. And thank you!
this video was way more interesting, hype and entertaining than any video titled "I played engineer in 6s" has any right to be. super fun vid, great storytelling editing etc. but also the way you led your team and you guys played was great too. gg all round lads
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it and I appreciate the comment!
I love this video. In competitive games the meta is almost always not the best way to play the game. Its not being contrarian its just applying better game sense approaches. I also think global bans are stupid in any competitive game
Thanks I appreciate it! And yeah I see that commonly, I think the issue is that many players just want to emulate what the 1st place team does in different games and that just slowly becomes the meta, regardless if it fits their team style or not. I'm hoping TF2 can become more inclusive as time goes on and it looks like that it's possible through RGL and players in North America thankfully.
Your point about people not understanding how to play 5cp spills over into most casual games. A huge portion of players don't care about actually winning a round and just play TF2 to deathmatch and farm killstreaks.
It's been awhile since I had felt genuine excitement. Watching this video was one of those things that had the honor of giving me that excitement.
Haha thanks!
Great video. I wish you were more in depth on how playing engineer went through. Like what your thought process was, or how teleporters factored in . I really hope the 6s meta becomes more open to all the classes.
Next video! It'll probably be called "HOW to play Engineer in 6s", it'll likely be a while before it comes out, I'm shooting for around the summer given I'm pretty busy.
this video is really awesome, hits a niche for me ive always wanted with tf2 youtube. typically competitive tf2 players are too busy getting really good at the game and mostly just stream instead of making high production tf2 vids like uncle dane or whatever, so a lot of their videos giving advice are like an hour long and unedited. which is fine and very educational still, but is mainly for the already competitively minded player and doesnt do much to draw in the casual crowd IMO. this video does a really cool job bridging the 2, combining competitive level analysis, good video production, a fun story AND an interesting video concept to shake things up.
really, this is super refreshing and exciting. not just for the fun of shaking up 6s meta, but the tf2 youtube meta as well! instant sub
Yeah that's pretty accurate! My personal niche is what I'm calling comp-ish. Where I cover competitive topics and how to incorporate them into your normal gameplay in a Casual or Competitive match. And thanks!
Out of all the 'playing/maining Medic' guides I've seen, not one of them mentioned crouching inside of a dispenser to minimize some damage in an attempt to keep Uuber progress. For teaching me something new on the path to learning all the ins and outs of my favorite class to play, I am subscribing. :) Thanks!
You're welcome! And thanks! I don't think I've seen Dispenser Armor mentioned in any medic videos, but I've seen it mentioned in Engineer videos commonly, usually in Uncle Dane videos or competitive Engineer guides (which aren't popular outside of competitive TF2 so I understand you not seeing them). Just keep in mind that splash damage (Rockets, stickied etc) can still hit you! It's just hitscan that gets blocked.
@@QueeQuey Thanks again. I've actually been testing with this information against various classes. a good deal of pistol fire and most of snipers riffles are thwarted (at least once) by the Dispenser. The obvious exception on Sniper is the Machina, as with more charge comes piercing for the rounds. I'm now wondering what other classes have potential positive interaction for someone working to become a Medic Main.
Honestly, this is the kind of shit i live for, coming up with off meta strats to force other teams to adapt. It really tests the flexibility of teams and players in sixes and its fun as hell to see
Also ppl meme on comp players for hating on meta shifts but then we got ppl like habib and sandblast encouraging it
Godspeed
I clicked this video on a lark. This was actually super informative and interesting. I'm an engie/med main and i was always curious how an engie would shake things up in the competitive meta. Like it was mentioned at the start of the video, i assumed the meta had been figured out long ago, so the team compositions made sense. It's so interesting to see how much of a shake up an engie could make
There are a few shakeups that are still around. As I've said in many other comments, I think Pyro would be easier to integrate onto a 6s team, and we even saw a team run full-time pyro on Bagel this season in Invite. They lost both games they did (against Froyotech and G6), but with some refinement I could see them doing better/beating froyo in that match. Some weapons being unrestricted could also change the meta a little bit. Ex. If Disciplinary Action was unbanned the rollout to mid would be far more interesting (I say this as a pocket soldier, who would be the person you'd have run it). But on the other hand unbanning something like the Base Jumper wouldn't do anything (just like the Buffalo Steak unban this season didn't change anything in RGL).
Incredible video man. Excellent content, I really agree with the vestibule idea, I had never even thought of that, I truly think it would fix a lot of stalemate and weapon ban related issues
Also love that you’ve trying to advance the meta, TF2 could definitely use that being an older game.
Good stuff
Yeah it's something that I'd really like to try and experiment with to see if it nerfs last holds in general as right now it can be really hard to push last. And thanks man, appreciate it!
Huge video, large in nature and impact, very optimized and lubricated, 10/10
dude we spoke yesterday a bit about tf2 comp and you recommended me some stuff! what i considence to get recommended your video
Its great seeing engie strats and plays that people have been working with outside of 6s get used in it and just letting the class flex its muscles
What a video, a awesome view of the thought process of competitive tf2, I’m only a casual player but I really want to get better at this game, this inspires me to play and continue a slogging journey of the skill ceiling of this game
this is peak engineer gaming
This is insane to see this side of the community. Having played this game at the most casually possible level for like 10 years I just started playing again and this video shows in my feed. Comp is a very interesting part of this game
Thanks I appreciate it!
16:09
Best part of the video, taking responsibility is cool as heck
I'm actually doing full time Engineer in Main this season. Granted we aren't a normal team at all (not scrimming and running full time Pyro as well) it's had some interesting results. While the season isn't over yet, I just wanted to comment that I disagree with your Clearcut analysis, and I think part of the issue you had is not taking into account that Clearcut has plenty of places to build level 3's and it's relatively easy to do since there's so much cover. You can build it in the bunker, to the left of point, behind your bunker to deal with bombers, on the little pillar on the left, and even behind the crate so they don't see it right away (doesn't directly fight point but does watch left and right), or even on top of the crate during a fight if it goes down. I also had success sneaking level 2/3's into their main building after a wipe and got some kills there. Won both matches on it and only dropped 1 round (second match was played unofficially which is why it shows up as forfeit). Metalworks is also a decent map for level 3's. Bagel is great, too, and that dispenser spot is the same one I used, as well as that sneaky forward sentry spot, though with a leveled gun instead of a mini. 5CP is a concern imo, but generally speaking the KotH maps in current rotation are pretty good for Engineer.
The issue I had with level 3s on Clearcut was edging the point as you said, which most teams did if I ever put my gun in Shed. It's a good place to bunker fully, but it was really rare to get a team to commit that far. Also I don't have a pyro, so I'm not sure how much that changed the dynamic. In my experience on clearcut it was more of if the enemy team learned what we were doing at all they could change the dynamic of the game very easily, but if they were like the majority of the teams we would face, we would roll. Yeah Metal was great for leveled guns! And Bagel was my favorite map by far, you can build on everything! I loved mixing the gun spot in Bagel from the center of the room, to closer to point, back toward the staris, and finally onto the computers once they got used to a gun somewhere else and would caught in, it was great! I generally didn't have issues with 5CP in general, the only problem map was Process, and it still wasn't that bad. Personally I'd rather play something like Snakewater over Product or Clearcut, but my team has always been more of a 5CP team rather than a KOTH team so it's probably team dependent. But I'm glad to hear someone else is doing it! The only other person that I know that was thinking about doing it with us was Austin from Yeye, so it's cool to have a few more people out there trying off-meta stuff!
i like how many comp tf2 videos use melee music
dudeeee this was such an enjoyable video. thank you for taking us with you on the season long journey. it really makes me want to get into comp in TF2, I've only done like 3 placements in the last 5 years lmao.
getting a shoutout from Habib and Sandblast is like the holy grail of competitive TF2
Some of the coolest guys I've met in the scene so far while I was at LAN.
I don't play TF2 anymore but this kind in in-depth video is not just for TF2 enjoyers. Good well made content is enjoyable for it's own means.
When u started talking about 5cp i got flashbacks to when i got dropped in a Sunshine match that lasted an hour and a half, on the first round. It was one of my first tf2 games (first week i started playing) and i never felt so miserable
This man is pogged out of his mind! Great showcase of how an engi with the Gunslinger is a very versatile specialist, and I hope to see more breaking of the 6s' mold done with Pyro, who can be similar in that respect.
At any rate, best TF2 gameplay video I have seen in the past few weeks. Kudos!
I agree! I played Pyro in PUGs and I'm definitely a believer. I think Pyro's kit is really versatile at least in RGL where there aren’t any weapon bans for Pyro (except for the Reserve Shooter). Using the detonator or scorch shot for chipping away HP / ruining crit heals, items like the thermal thruster and third degree being good for sacs (as well as Flames passing through people helps) etc etc. Obviously airblast is great too, but I haven't mastered it yet, so I don't think I can confidently talk about all the intricacies of how it can be used in 6s. Maybe a brave high level Highlander Pyro can take on that mantle. If there's enough interest maybe I'd do it myself but we'll see!
@@QueeQuey haha yeah. While Pyro is versatile he isn't a "Strong" class in terms of power, and trying to incorporate him into a 6s team will take someone well versed in the class.
In general I dream that we can get a few more tweaks to weapons and classes, which might shift things a little (but probably, and hopefully, never to the point where the current meta isn't a streamlined choice for a 5cp match)
Yeah Pyro's pure burst damage isn't high generally speaking (except with the dragon's fury), but I do think that on an attentive team Pyro can be a huge thorn in the enemy's side. I would say that of all of the classes that aren't in the current meta, Pyro is probably the easiest to incorporate. I know Jay (top level player) is a believer as well. If you're not someone who generally watches competitive matches a near full-time pyro was run by the #3 team in Invite. They lost 4-0 both games, but I think that with some refinement they could have won the one against Froyotech (and maybe gotten a round or two off of G6). Personally I think for ease of running a non-standard class full-time would be: Pyro > Sniper > Enginer > Heavy >>>> Spy.
Here are the links to the matches if you're interested, GPG is the team that ran Pyro:
GPG vs G6: ua-cam.com/video/YGMt5hlJ4IE/v-deo.html
GPG vs Froyotech: ua-cam.com/video/p1IqXBS9wYc/v-deo.html
Im glad this channel is getting some recognition congratulations🎉🎉
Thank you!
man i thought he was playing engineer for 6 seconds not play actual sixes, im stupid.
this was a surprisingly fun video, glad to see engineer getting love in 6s!
Glad you enjoyed it!
this is my favorite video of all time
Quee Quay more like Cray Cray because this was surprisingly innovative and informative. Makes me want to try it myself
Wow, this video was fantastic, I never played competitive and very likely never will, but this was extremally interesting to watch, great video sir!
Thanks! Glad to hear you enjoyed it!
This was a genuinely thought-provoking video. I've rarely played TF2, and even then only in public lobbies, but I see a lot of similarities between it and my personal main game, Splatoon.
Currently, we've got similar issues with centralized meta in mid- to high-level competitve scene, often seeing teams running three of the same weapon with rare departures from the formula. Our meta is a bit like 3 Scout - 1 Demo, with those three being the undisputed best weapon and kit in the game, and the last typically being a mid to long range weapon that can serve as an anchor. I'll save the detailed game descriptions for another place and time, but still
TLDR: I really appreciate a detailed guide on how to approach an off-meta composition. Noting that sometimes you do have to switch to other roles or classes to do what you need to do, and including your thought process, makes for extremely valuable commentary.
I'll be doing a video on "How to play Engineer in 6s", and it should be my next edited video. But I'm glad you enjoyed it! I never played Splatoon but I've heard good things about it. A stale anti-experimental metagame in a game that has a loadout/character system is never good from my experience. Some people will have their favorites and a distinct playstyle, so restricting that is disappointing. Having the meta be flowing like in Melee is always great to see as a viewer.
Using Melee music was a very good thematic choice for this video.
I'm not in high school anymore, and most video games leave a bad taste in my mouth by now -- but this video was a new topic and it gave me a vivid feeling that this was what video games could really mean to people in a constructive way, and not just as an afternoon time waster. sincerest compliments and stick with it
i love your mindset. very focused on growth.
Yeah! Lowering the barrier to entry to the scene and including people is a big part of my mentality.
Interesting shakeup. I would be down to try a season on pyro 😁
Pyro's almost playable. I know some teams have played around with it a bit. The main issue is just getting melted by Scouts. If you had like god Flare aim you could maybe make it work. Powerjack + reflect jumps gives you great mobility and Pyro can't be airshot when bombing Medics (because the rocket will get reflected into the Med) so any spam at a choke can become a guaranteed Med pick for a Pyro. It's interesting for sure, but the Scouts thing is ROUGH.
Fulltime pyro honestly has a lot going for it. The double gunboat meta means airblast gives you a good matchup vs everyone but the scouts, you have tools to keep up with your team better than other off-meta classes and none of pyro's unlocks are banned in modern rgl 6s.
2 loadouts stand out to me as being maybe kinda viable:
Dragons Fury - Detonator - Powerjack
Degreaser - Stock/Panic Attack - Powerjack
Would be really interesting to see if someone could make it work.
@@neutraldalek4222 I'd just like to throw out there that if the Soldier knows the matchup in a 1v1 Gunboats is favoured vs Pyro. 0% of 6s players know the matchup and nobody will ever try to learn it (because "ew, Pyro" in MGE) but theoretically they're favoured.
The strategy is that you bomb the Pyro and fire one rocket at them, then you try to MG them. If they reflect the rocket, they can't airblast you away and instadie to gardener. If they airblast your garden away, they get hit with a 100 damage guaranteed rocket for free. The only possible out is for the Pyro to reflect airshot you with the rocket, which is borderline impossible if you airstrafe your garden to come from a super different angle.
This is less relevant when it comes to actual 6s play because usually your Pyro would likely be a hardcore combo piece stuck to your Med/Demo but if he's ever caught in 1v1s he is unfavoured even vs gunboats.
@@mooncalf_4534 That kind of bomb feels like it wouldn't be something you could pull off even semi-consistently in a real game. But I don't really have the soldier experience to say for sure.
@@mooncalf_4534 It's not just Scouts existing that's problematic, most 6s maps are also designed to be favourable for Scouts, so ya double screwed 😅
36:27 The funny thing about the wrangler, is that the literal only reason it is overpowered is the shield. If it didn't have the "triple sentry health for free" shield, it would be well balanced.
Yeah pretty much. Still very strong for a defensive engineer but it wouldn't be a must-pick for offensive engineers in higher level environments. I would love to see it get a nerf some day.
@@QueeQuey If only it got nerfed, I wanna see how viable it would stay and see nerfed version potentially explored in comp, especially as full time engy 🙏
Good on you for pushing the envelope on more potential strategies. I like Highlander a lot more than 6s, but I'd love to play full time Pyro to protect the Medic, rocket reflects and all.
dude this is a masterpiece. I don't think I have ever seen a video made so well with such a small channel. keep it up :)
Super informative video with actual substance along with great editing! Can't wait for more :)
Thanks! I hope to have my next project out around the summer! But with life we'll see lol.
This is a great example why people sticking too a meta too much gets them destroyed by classes like Engineer which punish them for what normally would be an acceptable play. People stop being good at the game but rather good at the meta.
This is why a lot of games get a toxic relation between casual and comp with Smash Bros being the best example.
Everyone is trying to defend their wounded pride in an imperfect system acting like there is a correct way to play forgetting to just play the game. That just because you do well in casual or competitive doesn't mean you'll show the same promise outside of your niche.
25:46 lol the birb off to the right. good, informative video sir.
Haha I didn't even notice that! And thank you!
Great video, I love seeing people giving permanent off-classing a shot. Not surprised you play in RGL, ETF2L is way more conservative and I think quite a few teams here would have refused to even play against your team. I once tried running gunslinger engie on Product and the enemy team ended the scrim.
This video is very epic. Glad to see people pushing the sixes meta farther for us spectators enjoyment
I finally caught an in-the-making legend pre-1k subs, but seriously, good shit m8, hope to see more from you!
Thanks!
Neat video, it's cool to see someone trying something new that goes against the stale 6s meta. I tried getting into comp tf2 a couple times and did tryouts but after encounters with toxic assholes I kinda threw up my hands and said "fuck this" and never touched comp again. It's cool to see people sticking with competitive tf2 and putting a new spin on it after all of these years.
Thanks I appreciate it!
Excellent video! I'm very new and green to competitive, and while I highly doubt beginner pugs will allow off-classes it brings a big smile to my face that playing my favorite class is somewhat viable in 6s.
Beginner PUGs typically don't, but they might after a longer night / with a really knowledgeable runner. And yeah! I think Engie is a decent option in 6s! The hardest maps are definitely Process, and Sunshine but if you're willing to adjust or play scout a little bit you can make it work! And thank you!
They laughed at you bringing a child to battle, but they realized something too late...
They don't know how to fight a child
Man you explain this really good. Perhaps you can make a video how to get into tf2 competitive? Because a lot of players just see this high level strats and hard terminology and miss tf2's wonderful pro scene)
I work for RGL as well (the North American League) and I'm working on a few things over there for guides (ex. I'm dropping a new Callout video for Metalworks on Tuesday). The only thing is that we generally don't want to tell people how to play and accidentally enforce a meta. I'll be doing a guide on this channel on how to play Pocket Soldier some day, but for RGL I'm working on some new player / new team leader guides.
As a quick answer, right now the best way to get into competitive TF2 is through the Newbie Mixes at newbie.tf. They run PUGs every Friday and have mentors to teach you how to play. They also run a team drive every season for players to sign up and be assigned to teams with a mentor. The Tf2 coaching central is also good but I don't have their link.
To add on to this- if you want the quick and dirty method of dipping your toes into competitive formats, open up TF2Center, link your steam and join some games. It doesn't take too long if you play on popular hours, and you can find a game while playing a casual match. Note that you can only offclass from the standard 6s lineup extensively in an Offclassing= Allowed tagged game. Good luck entering the fun man.
@@QueeQuey can u tell sites where u can play comp
@@zxvc849 Check the pinned comment! As for the league I played in, I played in: rgl.gg
"valve if you're watching"
is basically asking santa or the tooth fairy if they're watching
Hi, this was a really fun watch! Thanks for the video :)
Thanks for watching!
Super high quality!
Awesome commentary. Just came across this video today, and lets just say I binged a whole bunch of your vids. While I'm not a part of the competitive community due to commitment issues, I do have some interest in it. Love your videos man!
If you do ever want to play for a bit without committing for a long time, a cup would be a good choice for you (they last 2 days, with day 1 for pools and day 2 just for the teams that made playoffs). RGL PUGs is already in open-Alpha as well so hopefully later on it'll be more accessible. Also in the pinned comment I left some links to places that run PUGs for new players! And thanks mate! I appreciate it!
Total W of a video. You definitely earned a subscriber
Such a high quality video from a relatively small channel! Keep up the great work
Thanks! I'll try but things like this take a long time to make lol
GOATED VIDEO
GOATED ADMIN
man, you really have me wanting to get into comp for the 10th time. there's just an itch i've never been able to scratch since being forced to leave the comp scene in the previous game i played
I played Halo (2-Reach) competitively and P+ after that (I still play P+ I'm just bad). TF2 has been great to me competitively in RGL.
Expected a video that went like "We trolled, it kinda worked but it was moreso funny." But instead this was a really interesting attempt to ground break 6s meta.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
This is the kinda video that makes TF2 comp seem interesting to me
i saw this in my feed again since 11 months hope ur well
I know it was just an EXTREMELY small part of the video, but I fully agree that the Wrangler needs to be nerfed, possibly into the ground. Being able to extend your sentry's reach taking manual control is powerful enough. The damage reduction bubble is NOT needed. If they want to keep it, drop it down to like 20% reduction or something. Short circuit only needs a small nerf: Unable to gain metal when it's deployed (like beggar's bazooka); and that's coming from a Demo main.
But, on topic to the video. While I've never really played competitive, even though I have 12k+ hours, this video was actually pretty enjoyable. My biggest issue with 6s is I always found the meta to be kinda stale...though I do understand why it is the way it is. Full timing a different class was actually a refreshing change to watch. Thanks for video explaining the whole process. Keep up the good work.
When wrangling you cannot both shoot with and repair your sentry. That's why it's there. Without wrangling you could tank damage with repairs.
I can certainly understand why it is bad for 6s where the strategy is to just have the sentry as a damage sponge and then immediately switch when it goes down, but for 12v12 or highlander it is certainly not overpowered as there is way more collective ammo available before reload in the attacking team.
Hey, just wanted to let you know that I thought this video had great pacing and story telling. I barely play TF2 now and have never played competitive, but this video was great to watch, keep going!
Hey, thanks! And that's the goal! Hoping to get out a "How to play engineer in 6s" video out around the summer before getting back to my normal Soldier content.
I love this trend of using SiIvaGunner long-form rips as background music for TF2 videos.
I've never heard of you, and I don't care too much for Engie. But Wow, this video went way above and beyond what I was expecting. I was expecting just some random PUGS with a typical analysis of "It's really not that bad!" like everything else in this game gets. Not someone who was putting in the hours with vod reviews and testing spots.
I think you inspired me to give Comp tf2 a try and you totally earned a sub. Look forward to seeing more content!
Haha to be fair before I started this season I pugged as Engie and Pyro. But yeah I spent a ton of time going over maps and demo reviewing etc for the season. If I was going to do it, I wanted to make sure I did it right and fully commit to figuring out how to get Engie to work. And thanks! I always like hearing people becoming more interested in competitive tf2!
In Ozfortress there was a team that played like this for a few seasons. One scout, one soldier, one pyro, a demo, a med and the last player flexed engie, heavy, sniper, spy. They did pretty well but there seemed to be a skill cutoff around the middle of intermediate (2nd highest div in ozfort) where they just got rolled by every team. My theory is that this was due to increasing levels of team coordination that better allowed for dealing with the offclasses. My team ended up playing in a deathball that would constantly rotate away from their team and either out-spam them or pick off people who got disconnected from their combo, once we figured out this strat we never lost a map to them. At the end of the day, the sixes classes are the sixes classes because they have the highest mobility and once teams get good enough to abuse this they'll beat perma offclassing every time.
I don't think I'd swap 2 of the core classes in the current meta, especially for an extra pyro given ozfortress's whitelist banning scorch shot AND detonator (Pyro has no weapon bans in RGL besides Reserve Shooter) and those are super important for medium to long range pyro harassment here. I think that with a lot of work pretty much any class can work, you just have to strategize and other teams have to steategize against you. I know Jay (one of the best NA players) and some of the other top Invite players feel the same way, it's just a matter of that experimentation losing them games to figure out what they need to do / they aren't good enough on those classes at that level. I think GPG (3rd place Invite team) playing perma-pyro on Bagel is interesting, I'm hoping they add some refinement to make it work, but we'll see.
IS THIS HIGHLANDER S28 IM 4TH PLACE NEVER FORGET
@@QueeQuey I think there was also a team at one of the rewind lans (or another lan around that time) that ran their roamer on flex offclass most of the time but I can't remember their name unfortunately.
My personal feeling with offclasses (low-mid prem player) is that in the short term teams should be able to develop strats for them that can win them some games, but in a theoretical hyper-developed meta where almost every strategy has been explored I think it's either going to be the classic sixes line up or a perma sniper line up that will turn out to be the best.
@@strawbunnyfps Probably. But the fully-explored meta is something that won't happen due to people needing to be perfect players, and that's asking too much. I do think that having offclasses as a shakeup is something that's very undervalued, especially in North America. In NA there are just some teams that can pause the game, talk about what they need to change in a few minutes, then adapt and reverse the game to a winning situation. In those cases I think proactively changing strategy is something that should be done to pre-adapt to the other team.
The problem is yhat they off classed too hard, bro they only got one scout and one soldier one med and one demo and then perma pyro and flex engy/heavy/sniper/spy.
That's just too much.
That's why off meta can probably only work if you sacrifice flank scout(for Engy) or pocket scout(for pyro), I don't see anything else working for a long time 😅
As an Engy main i gotta say a big thank you for trying this and being successful!
Anytime! Engie is my 2nd favorite class so I'd really like to see him get played a bit more outside of just on last.
I do wish you went over the strengths and weakness of having an engineer on your team, as you spent most of the video reciting how different sixes matches went. Still though, this was a really fantastic idea, and I enjoyed watching it :)
My next video will likely be called "How to play Engineer in 6s" that'll cover it. This was just more of a story video for the season. I originally wrote them together but got 13 failed scripts deep before I decided to split them up into 2 parts and make this first. I'm hoping to get the 2nd done around the summer if I can.
@@QueeQuey Oh, thank you for responding! I'm excited to see it :)
@@QueeQuey yoooo im super excited
Awesome video. It was great scrimming your team last year on sunshine
Appreciate it!
Most competitive games will always role towards a stale meta but man TF2 is so much fun when everything is allowed .
I'm in a weird estate where I never really dipped into comp TF2 but I love you know actually trying hard and coordinating and have map strategies
So i usually play in community maps with a few friends who are on the same boat playing tp win always but with all the wacky stuff, kinda like even if I'm doing something dumb like leveling a man melter I'm still trying, and this is why I find casual so irritating it isn't supposed to be tryhard city but man sometimes people just sit there in a corner doing nothing
It's so nice to see someone trying to shake the 14 year old meta i swear 6s was figured out in like the first couple of years of TF2's lifetime
Haha I know exactly what you mean. Don't get me wrong, I still really enjoy the social aspects of TF2 and being able to hangout etc, and if that part of the game was gone I'd be really disappointed. But my favorite part of TF2 is the core gameplay loop and playing to win, being the class that the team needs etc etc. And that goes for Casual and Competitive.
@@QueeQuey bingo, a lot of people think TF2 success is just on the goofy shit and that's a good part of it, but honestly the core of TF2 is awesome gameplay it's got a solid 9 years of development at release and then another ten years of refining and tunning on top of that, funny hats and dances are great and iconic , but the core gameplay is something no other fps has
And as the highest comp players like Benny show thanks to the source engine and just no limits of the game, you can always get better
Even as a wee f2p trying to win was fun pushing to land more shots and not get killed so fast was great fun
Really nice video bro, really enjoyed it!
Glad you enjoyed!
A couple notes from moments in this.
"Enemy team ragequits when losing" - I personally think if this happens during a match, not a scrim, the enemy team should be struck with a penalty for the behavior. Going totally stale is what kills comp in games, and that's basically them saying "well we didn't lose to the meta, so we didn't lose" by leaving.
"Enemy team denies a time slot then scrims during it" - Another thing I truly think should be struck with some kind of penalty, this kind of thing, as it seems like a team HOPING they can cause issues, and force a lose, which they did... But since you still won 2 matches during that I'd say they still didn't do 100% well against this.
"We did have multiple teams in play-offs reach out to scrim us" - Now THIS is a good thing to hear, the fact that they wanted to have an unusual team to play against, because it meant more fun matches then the stock standard meta team comps.
"Crushing the other team on both of the maps in play-offs, them refusing to adapt" - Can see why they'd be considered toxic, they likely considered your team not even worth the effort, but HAD to fight you now, and would likely have quit if it was just scrims. Crushing them proves their failures and is absolutely fantastic.
Overall it seems like good players wanna play with different classes. Bad players, or rather players who are more toxic want the meta to remain because they can't adapt as well. I've seen multiple videos on this kind of idea and it always has multiple issues with players not wanting to scrim teams with different designs.
happy to see this come out
muma pyro is a legacy in adv
this video is incredible btw
The game against Froyo on Bagel was really close for the first half. I think if they worked with it more they could have taken a few rounds. And thanks man!
great storytelling!
great production and content
When you have so few players, I see the role of engineer as having 6+1
You can die but there is still an HP pool with a gun left somewhere covering a respawn and removing a disadvantage. Really neat
That reasoning is pretty much why engineer is a staple for last holds. The sentry is a +1 on last and you can swap back to scout while sitting in spawn. And yeah! I don't think it's a fully +1 when I'm dead (given how easily sentries are destroyed by higher skilled players), but I've gotten some VERY cheeky kills with the gun post-death, my favorite being med kills and drops but I don't think I included any in this video since you'd really have to be watching the killfeed lol.