TF2: A Distinctive Lack of Team Recognition
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2023
- He could be you, he could be me.
Support me on Patreon: / zesty_jesus
hell: / zesty_jesus
2nd channel: / @zestyalt
My website & TF2 server: zestyjesus.com/
Huge thanks to pamp for lending his hard work for this video. He makes insanely high quality skins for Team Fortress 2, but given that Valve avoids custom mapped skins that don't use an existing warpaint as a template, all of his work gets ignored. Regardless, please go show his workshop some love. His work simply belongs in this game: steamcommunity.com/profiles/7...
Specifically, I used pamp's photoshop files from these two warpaints:
Fabienne: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Maud: steamcommunity.com/sharedfile...
Thumbnail by Jauntyweb: / jauntywebau
Dank Machine: / dankmachine3845
SFM work by Konakona I have nothing to link for them, but thank you so much!
Illustrative Rendering in Team Fortress 2: • Team Fortress 2 | Illu...
casualTF2's video: • how i feel about TF2 i... - Ігри
Man, I'm seeing some beautifully asinine and reductive counter-arguments floating around. I'll address them here as they come. inb4 "I ain't reading all that," My favorite thus far:
1) "Who cares, if it moves, I shoot. Just shoot everyone."
Alright, if color isn't that important, put the game into greyscale, and try this argument again. Someone's position alone isn't enough to tell you if they're friend or foe. Once both teams collide, you'll be wasting half your time and shots shooting people that are on your team (not to mention, not all maps contain fully team-colored environments, Lakeside for example). The entire point of the game, being a team-based shooter, becomes moot. Reductive? Yes. But pointing out the extreme end-member case is important. Because what follows are arguments like this:
2) "You spycheck anyways, just spycheck everyone."
Effectively the same argument as before, but twisted to make it seem as if though shooting everyone that looks like they're on your team is something you already do. You don't. Spychecking is common practice, yes, but you shoot suspicious players trying to get close, typically after a Spy has made his presence known (post death, failed stab, sappers, callout, etc.), or after obvious visual queues take place when he's disguised (i.e. a slow scout, bugged weapons or cosmetics [which shouldn't happen but they do], someone not actively engaging the enemy team even though they're right in front of them, etc.).
If someone looks like they're on your team and aren't playing as Spy, they're acting like the class they're playing. Shooting their weapons. Moving at their speed. Non-Spy aggressors don't act like Spies, and don't exhibit the aforementioned gameplay queues, aside from the lattermost on rare occasion. Also, paranoia caused by a Spy's presence is MEANT to be a bad thing, because you now waste your time looking for him, shooting your own team mates, and not the other team, which is what team colors are meant to prevent. That's the point! That must remain exclusive to Spy, and not everyone else, lest it negatively impact the flow of the game. You expect, 1, maybe 2 spies at most in your typical game, cycling through respawn times. Not everyone on your team, all the time.
3) "Use nameplates to figure out who is on your team."
This goes back to the greyscale argument. Have fun doing that in the heat of a fight through all of the game's visual noise. The game trains you to look for color in a split second, not for nameplates. Not to mention, with all the player models overlapping each other in the midst of a team fight, good luck telling who the nameplate was for. This is a serious gameplay clarity problem many modern games suffer from, TF2 players shouldn't be encouraged to rely on that.
4) "Colorblind people play the game just fine."
No they don't, especially not for those who's colorblindness isn't aided by colorblind mode. Just thumb through the comments on this video. They have to go to extra lengths to compensate for their disability, for which not a lot can be done in a team-based shooter beyond ideal color choice (which TF2 already uses, red and blue, since most forms of color blindness only affect one color or the other) or changing how teams are distinguished entirely (i.e. using shapes rather than colors). In TF2, they're forced to use nameplates or other indicators that weren't intentionally placed to distinguish friend from foe. From those who've reached out to me, they HAVE to shoot everyone, and it frustrates them, because it detracts from their experience. Additional colors introduced by paints don't help them either, as some can look red/blue even if they're not. As harsh of a reality as this is, we should accommodate those with disabilities, but not at the expense of the majority without said disability. For example, adding shape-based team indicators would add more distracting visual noise to a game that was designed to mitigate that as much as possible.
Man some people have serious brain rot XD
I appreciate this comment
I'd like to join the bullshit idk what I'm getting into but as for the colourblind comment.. *There is litterally a colour blind option.*
Right in the settings,
"Colorblind people play the game just fine."
No I don't.
You know shits gotten absolutely out of hand when a Pyro can play Spy better than Spy.
As a Spy Main I felt this pain.
Bumped into him and walked away but if I bump into someone they gain 500 iq and kill me in less than 2 seconds.
and sniper is a better ambassador spy
@@Crspssunfortunately ambi sniper is outclassed by the ambassador
*The Spyro and the Spyper"
I love how the Pyro can be bumped by one guy and not be questioned for a full 5 second but the moment Spy's hitbox collides with the enemy team he gets fucked
people never shut the fuck about how special TF2 is but when you try to protect the things that make it special they seethe in anger
i agree Mr.s@x . i remember few years ago when i used to watch a lot of tf2 essays. i swear they were copying or writing from the same script sometime. don't get me wrong. reaching a similar conclusion to something a lot of people agree with is not wrong and it help cementing things. that being said. they hardly delve deeper to explain why those things are good. I personally think there is one youtuber who understand what made tf2 special and he not even considering himself a "gamer". called "CasualTF2". the man truly can speak with words that has meaning he concluded after thinking on his part. I recommend this "how i feel about TF2 is changing" video.
SO TRUE, people always praise the design of tf2, then why tf do they keep voting for items that go completely AGAINST that same design philosophy
I tend to be called crazy when I compare modern TF2's aesthetics to fortnite when classic TF2's aesthetics were very unique and stood out on their own.
@@energeticyellow1637I was just thinking about this last night on a server when looking at few decked out heavies. At best, I think you can say Tf2 style degraded from 60s spy film to "cheesy B movie". It became more generic and flanderized.
Nah all people want is the funny hat game with their cosmetics that keep them playing past when they would have stopped. Funny tf2 !rtd run in lol ragdoll, need more meme cosmetics and every custom weapon vid no matter how garbage or strange it is 'this should be in tf2'.
Pyro got bored of spy checking, decided to be spy himself
Zesty, why don't you make your own TF2 emporioum to defeat the workshop elites? Imagine how chaotic will become... the fun of beating them in their own game, and all because you and many gave them good and helpful criticism
I can't believe I'm early for a SrPelo comment! Anyway Zesty says he's bad at art so he probably only could commission someone for that. I would try if I could...
Unfortunately, the Emporium is the one with all of the resources and artists, so all technical feedback (outside of particular items) is pretty much impossible.
How can Mr. Hair be so based all the time?
Based suggestion
We could call it something stupid like *"The Church of Zest."*
the worst part of this video wasn't the problems with team recognition, it was realizing Zesty can walk around as a RED Pyro dressed as a BLU one, but I can't take two steps without getting spy checked
I will always maintain some people have a gift for that bs.
Tho granted, he has the benefit of being able to attack
Unless the person is paranoid enough to think a Spy broke the game and can remain disguised even after attacking, they ignore anyone they see pressing M1 and not morphing into a Frenchman
Don't hate the player hate the game, son.
Do you play on American servers?
Worst part of the video was the fan art section
Any creator that outright mocks the games original art style should be blacklisted as a matter of principle.
Honestly its disgusting people act like this, Such blatant disrespect for the game they are making items for.
Wow, I am really really sorry that you have to go through the horrors of tf2 cosmetics... They should construct a memorial for this tragedy. I'm sure the starving children in Africa are crying right now over this injustice.
@@sprigg3380 I know you did not just say that 🗿
@@sprigg3380 Bro you're like 12 and play Valorant, Your opinion is already invalid.
Why are you here?
I'm sure it's not even something that needs mentioned at this point... But there is a very obvious correlation between TF2's consistent decline in quality over the years, and the fact that Valve keeps going back to the same handful of Workshop Creators for each update.
This is what happens when a handful of bad actors realize they can make money off of a game they don't even like, and a community they hate. I wouldn't even be surprised if they have direct relations to some people at Valve. Either from the beginning, or fostered over time. Insider trading, amirite.
I always appreciated that the map was red and blue too.
Not only did they have separate colors, but they also had distinct material differences too.
Red is more rustic, blu is more industrial.
I love the unique aesthetics they have. Makes me wonder what it would be like if the teams were aesthetically different too.
all it takes for bad designers to win is for good designers to do nothing
I think instead it's similar to misinformation online, where it's far easier to make something untrue and viral (like conspiracy theory videos) than it is to create something good and made with delicate care (like counter videos to conspiracy theory videos where so many talking points have to be brought up to disprove a bullshit point made on a whim).
They're basically thinking up a cool concept and then pushing it out to be voted on before getting to the stage of "does this affect gameplay in a bad way?"
@@ThatFoxxoLeo yeah, that's true. it's lazyness mixed with "this will be so cool/funny". they don't think or care about the effect it will have
Looks like we need a little more gun
Ov is better valve fanboy
ww2
They hated Jesus because he told them the truth.
And because he was Zesty, and they only wanted Sweet
I'm a Christian. I'm pretty sure they hated Jesus because he was a cult leader.
@@dumpstercast-refuseradio8429 You're not a Christian.
Christianity was actually a development away from the cultic elements of Judaism. But you wouldn't know anything about that, you ignorant grifter.
@@dumpstercast-refuseradio8429 they were Jealous of his sick beard.
@@dumpstercast-refuseradio8429 "They" hated Jesus for a lot of complicated reasons, that can't be easily summarized in a UA-cam comment.
Seeing the entire team ignore you on the point gave me whiplash
Preface: I'm colorblind, and boy am I glad for the clear and distinct lines that the original art style has taken. It took awhile to get used to, and it's harder to tell at range for some of the more indistinct classes, but close up, where I'm fighting, I have no issues. And then there's Jarate. I can not tell you how many times I've been killed by someone who I thought was my teamate because they'd recently been hit by a jarate. The light yellow and pale orange are waaaay too close for my eyes to tell at a glance
all games like this need some colourblind modes imo
@@mikubrotsadly the only thing the colorblind option does in tf2 is add an icon above someone's head if they are splashed by jarate
This sucks man, I admire the determination
There's most likely a color blind filter or mod that'll help you with this. That or tweaking mat_color_projection to a value that's way easier to differentiate for you. Either way there are probably ways to resolve that, but if you're used to it now I understand
Not colourblind but jarate has always been a troublemaker for team recognition for me, as well as characters being on fire. I still think blue pyro should have more blue in their fire for that reason!
As a game designer who's worked with (less experienced) artists on development projects before, I can say it's no surprise how many of TF2's community artists prioritize art over gameplay without understanding the issue. They're artists, not designers. In a professional environment, they'd have to submit their work to a creative/design lead before it'd be accepted. Traditionally, that was Valve's job in this community contribution relationship.
Nowadays, I cannot stress enough how LITTLE Valve's acceptance of an item means in terms of its validity. Whoever they've had making decisions for this game looked at WUTVILLE and somehow thought that was in-line with the game's identity. That's a degree of negligence so comical, I can only assume it was made by someone who knows next to nothing about the visual side of game development and design. Likely a low-level programmer who had nothing better to do.
I repeat, Valve accepting your cosmetic makes it no more "appropriate" to TF2 than Wutville. THAT'S the bar.
I hate how well your comment aged in less than 24 hours with what got added to Scream Fortress. I think Eric Smith literally just imported what was "suggested" to him and stuff off the top page (with maybe 2-3 exceptions like the Demo taunt) and that's it.
As an artist and designer myself, I weep.
Ov is better valve fanboy
It's not even art over gameplay, more like money over art and gameplay. Many of the items either don't match the game's art style or just don't look that appealing in general, in ADDITION to ruining the team recognition.
@@dragon_ball_sucks_video | Ov?
This is why I can't stand PUBG anymore. Bright vibrant anime clothes should've never been added! Or even considered! But no, who even cares about artstyle!
Man the “who’s shooting me” clip really seals the deal. Not only was he actively looking for a target in the vicinity, he actively chose not to even check if he could hurt you, think about that. It takes practically no time whatsoever for a heavy weapons guy’s spun up gun, to quickly scan over a potential threat, see the damage indicator, and see the push back force, but he never even put one shot on you, not because he just didn’t see you, but because he actively believed that trying to shoot you would have been a waste of ammo, because you were apparently on his team… you were at 125 that entire interaction
Yea that stamped it for me. Or a whole team passing that sniper within plain sight...
@@tearex8688and he was on fire to
pyro players shaking rn
"Trembling with excitement at wreaking havoc on unsuspecting players" sounds like a more apt description to me.
They are bout to burst inro flames
Actually no, they're probably having a field day over knowing the exact cosmetic set to play Spy as without actually playing Spy.
@@ArbitraryOutcome ayoo i actually like this way of view
Some Medic get set on fire in front of his entire team as the Mann who killed him laughs & you think it's me!?
I am the Spyro, I am the Furry who laughs!
fucking hillarious how we can have tf2 liberals and conversatives this shit is insane
That’s why I love this game
we need to preserve the existance of tf2s identity
I would argue that its more just a different pack of apes throwing literal fecal mater at eachother, but really, is politics any different? Besides, yknow, real world consequences.
Liberals ruin everything
RINO: Red In Name Only
Why do all TF2 UA-camrs have such immaculate graphic design and animation talents? I've even noticed it myself in my gravitation towards the game.
The game is 16 years old. We have nothing else.
For lack of a better word, the game itself is very "accessible" to artists. Community Workshop, free SFM, (previously) the Saxxys, these are all things that encourage players to try their hand at making art. I remember being 14 and wanting to become an animator because of this game, haha.
Because the developer commentary blatantly points it out for them
Small mistake, the bonk is actually team colored. If you're on Blu you get a different flavor of Atomic Punch. Red is Cherry Fission, Blu is Blutonium Berry
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed!
He might have been referring to Crit A Cola as it it purple on both teams
@@EzekiesAcheron He showed both Bonk and Crit-A-Cola
New tf2 update: spy’s disguise kit is now an all-class weapon
TOO BAD THAT'S OVERSHADOWED BY THE AMBASSADOR
@@nameless...................... *nerf
@@24xxiv24 nice nerf, Too bad its overshadowed by the ambassador
@@nameless......................
Nice soundsmith reference!
Too bad its overshadowed by...
*_THE AMBASSADOR_*
and while disguised a class can still use their weapons without removing the disguise and the disguise never goes off
Remember when the corpse carrier threw off people so much it got restricted to halloween? Guess Valve didn't learn from their mistakes.
TF2 doesn't deserve to be in the care of the community. It deserves to be under the care of people who understand the intention of the game.
Which is why I cringe a little when I hear people say "tf2 needs to be given to the community!" The community doesn't know what is best for TF2 as evident by this video. The community doesnt consist of professional game designers like Valve was in the 2000s. Now I know it's not great at all in the hands of Valve either, it's a very weird dilemma.
@@energeticyellow1637TF2 needs go be given to people who understand and will support it for a long time. Maybe a mix of professional game designers from VALVe and some of the more talented community members would be best.
gatekeeping on a whole nother level jesus fucking christ let people play the game
@@g76agi if nobody gatekeeps, people won't even be able to "play the game" at all at some point by allowing all of this bullshit get added to the game. that's why the point of the video, which is about preserving team recognition, is all about keeping the game playable
so yes, do gatekeep on a whole nother level for Christ's sake so people _can_ play the game, especially when some people who make cosmetics don't care about the game itself and only care about getting all of those royalties
Imagine being given the opportunity to have your own creative work be immortalized in one of the greatest games of all time and GET PAID for it, and then having the audacity to believe you're too good to adhere to the original laws of the game's visual design simply because Valve stopped caring.
and think that the people talking about game design are on some nonsense and shut them down for daring to cause controversy
The bigger issue is Valve allowing them to do this. We wouldn't be seeing these kind of items continuously submitted if Valve just said "no" to them.
A lot of this comes down to Valve not caring because the playerbase isn’t showing they care enough to stop buying keys and boxes.
People vote with their wallets and their wallets are saying this nonsense is fine. The wallets will always say this.
It's just as abandoned as Quake and arena shooters lol
@@HumanPerson_final Actually, I think it still has to do with how Valve's projects are handled. Employees are far more inclined to work on more out-there and modern projects because it probably would look a lot better on their portfolio than maintaining a 2007 game held together with paper clips and spaghetti.
I like how the entire video is about team recognition and then you super casually drop a nuclear bomb "most accepted items go through this literal monopoly mafia first. moving on - vote with your clicks but don't be an asshole"
I feel that bit could have had its own video
@brutalbob842 Yeah, it does seem like one of those communities where many of its top community members are racist, misogynist, anti-semitic or even paedophiles and no-one is allowed to know.
@@brutalbob842it already has technically, it always comes up im his videos
Which i grateful for, fuck the big dogs of the workshop
I feel as though a video on this should be done on its own, especially due to the seriousness
Why is that every single community devolves into a ball licking yakuza den? Is humanity THAT fucked? I'm starting to believe that meritocracy always devolve into aristocracy.
Thankfully, according to Shounic, you can blacklist *any* item with tournament mode, including cosmetics. So it'd be up to community servers to remove the crap cosmetics in case it gets even worse
Or just join the no hats mod gang
Tf2 with no cosmetics is so nice.
I think this opens a larger discussion about readability in games. You can show someone examples of bad readability but it's hard because a still image is always gonna look readable because you have so much time to see it. But what people don't realize is that it's not about whether or not you can figure out what's going on, it's that you should be able to figure it out in an instant.
This is a massive issue in the majority of modern videogames. Really hope people start paying attention to this, because for me personally, PvP shooters are straight up unplayable because I cannot see anything
@@raven75257 Truth. The Binding of Isaac is personally a game I found to be a big offender. The farther through the game you get, the more everything becomes black and red making it all kinda blend together, especially among the endless sea of particles that the game tends to get late into a run.
@@owencmykIsn't that the main idea? The game gets progressively hard the longer you play, your characters changes based on the items you've picked up to show your progress?
@@h0rnyinvent0r69 yeah, I'm not saying there shouldn't be items. I'm saying they should've put more thought into making the items and enemies more readable.
@@h0rnyinvent0r69lack of readability should never be a source of difficulty in a game. that's just bad game design
I was the Medic and the Engineer in Mercenary Park (13:32 14:05). I remember how dumbfounded I was that you were just standing on the point unnoticed. I was also calling you out in the chat, mostly to no avail. Glad you speak up about this problem.
F
@@F2PDudeWha?
Like “I dare you to piss on that man’s rug for $5”, then the home owner is like “this is fine. Come visit again anytime.”
Valve being the home owner.
more like they're being paid to piss on the rug. some of these people are making a lot of money
it's more like us puppeteering a corpse of our grandparent to pretend like he's still alive
then people showing up, ripping him limb from limb, vomitting and throwing crap at him and not caring about what they just did just because they aren't sent to prison or executed for their actions and rather being rewarded for it and making it impossible to get rid of all of that
Crazy how Vlave decided to forget all of this when developing CS agent skins.
Because Valve doesn't care about tf2 or their fans. They show this over and over and over again but valvecucks keep returning for more spunk.
>microtransactions making the game look worse
who wouldve thought
Seriously man CS looks so bad now. The whole terrorism "us or them" mentality you're supposed to get into is completely lost when you have a white-harried cyberpunk dude with hipster glasses wielding a rainbow sniper rifle with anime stickers spraying a saturated spray that he unboxed after every kill
Does anyone else think CS:GO and CS2 look like literal plastic slop now? Counter-Strike had a gritty, realistic suburban-urban style to it at first, for example CS:S and CS 1.6. Then they made everything really shiny and clean
@@FaracyConfines seems to happen on a lot with modern games. I think it’s PBR.
It's so hypocrytical of people to claim that they are evolving SOMEONE ELSE'S artstyle! How fucking dare you take something someone else put sweat and tears into and then claim you are doing it better while actively destroying it?
TF2 has always had some very, let's say, "curious" communities within the game and outside but the cosmetic community and the UA-camrs and their fans truly are two echochambers that have festered into something so toxic is beyond sad.
23:13 "what do you want me to do about it" my brother in christ you're making the fucking items
…
“Didn’t You Map The Paint Areas?”
“Maybe just Map Them Better?”
Great Vibe
can't wait for more fully paintable body cosmetics for the pyro
Don't forget the heckin wacky looping vehicle taunts!
@@seronymus TF2 is inherently silly, if there's a problem they wouldn't be in the game :D
@@izcube8971This is satire, yeah?
@@seronymus Holy chungus, a new vechicle taunt!! if this was reddit i would give you sooo much gold!!!
@@garfreld By Fauci's glasses, what a wholesomerino award, thank you my good gentleperson! Let's go celebrate on an Uncletopia server!
I feel like any sensible person would be convinced by the clip at 13:11 alone. A poor gibus medic taking a one-way plunge, no hesitation, down into a point that has ONLY ENEMIES in it with his medigun out, in a vain attempt to save a player that was never on his team.
And this player was not a spy.
As a side note, I think Skial has a policy where they outright ban certain cosmetics because painting them will mess with team recognition. Violators get banned for them as well.
Extremely rare skial w
I feel like a whitelist wouldve been better, since the cosmetics themselfves wouldve been banned (not being visible) and not the person
the only W skial has taken in its entire existence
that kill at 2:32 is the only tf2 kill in recent memory that has gotten me to laugh, just the speed of the soldier hitting the pyro and the fact that I hadn't even considered it to be a spy
ok but the ragdoll from the clip right beforehand. Just. Such an elegant backflip
@@SWB22004I truly don't understand those who disable ragdolls on TF2. You're missing like half of the experience when you do that
@@energeticyellow1637try hards are a different breed
@@energeticyellow1637 Same here. I get "but my frames!!" might be a concern but man, oh man, I'm usually much less engaged with TF2 gameplay clips with ragdolls disabled. Hell, I'm stuck with a shitty laptop after my desktop died recently, but I still want to keep ragdolls no matter what.
Also because I'm a neanderthal who thinks killbinds are still funny and wished more games with ragdolls had them.
@@ArbitraryOutcomeliterally no reason not to put a kill bind in every game. In those which continue to release maps over time, the odds of finding little nooks and such that you can get stuck in even make it so there's an active reason to put them in.
This actually the first "TF2's art style is dead" video that I completely agree with
mine was crowbcat's to be ernest
Its not dead but its dying.
@@tearex8688I’m just getting back to it :(
@@bramvanvliet1654 sorry...its been rough. I came back around 2020 and its been a shitshow. I've watched it all progress to hell since jungle inferno.
I agree with the other ones, but they don’t say their opinion with authority, other videos about this kind of beat around the bush and have the conclusion that the artstyle is *kind of* still there. This video is blunt and specifically states the problem
Saying Overwatch’s screen clutter is a hot mess is a massive understatement. It’s an utter disaster.
I used to dismiss this issue until i played a gane with an enemy Red Pyro that used a stupid ass cosmetic shirt that made them look blue.
I died, a lot.
No Chudsty, you don't understand, we need the fully paintable furry head
And teh Millenial Wojak hair for Scout
@@fojisan2398erm... akshewally🤓, it's the *zoomer* wojak hair, sweetie💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿💅🏿
Chudsty lmfao
The silver lining with those is they're always Halloween restricted
@@tellyg7985 Not the one for the pyro.
Guys i swear green team exists.
Believe me when I say that Pink and Orange teams are a thing, too.
What about white team
GRN team is a thing in tf2c
SLATE Team!
@@Neoniq41 Ah yes, I remember the war between Blutarch, Redmond and Whitemann
Excellent point, charming visuals, and logical, well-thought script. You pretty much scored a strike there! As someone who intentionally ignore both paints and weapon skins (even unusuals), I must say I agree with you mostly.
Though I think it's mostly on Valve's end for accepting those horrific items (2020 Smissmas Case was undisputably gross) to the game, I understand your point that workshop creators shouldn't get their "Get out of the jail free" just because they're creating stuffs. Criticism itself isn't bad, it ultimately leads things to the right path if used correctly. Those who confuse between criticism and personal attack are the problem. Likewise, those who regard any criticism as a personal attack to defend their creations, too.
Hope the community eventually raise a good environment with positive feedback loops, where both criticisms and praises are openly accepted.
Anyone seen the new Uncle Dane video? I can't believe he said the team recognition problem was blown out of proportion when there is video evidence of it clearly being a problem that affects gameplay
Uncle Dane became such a bitch. He will do anything not to seem controversial in the eyes of TF2 hugbox.
@@h0rnyinvent0r69 What to expect with someone thats friends with ICucks
It's because he's an engineer main. He just shoots at everyone because they can be a spy and sentries identify the rest for him. He's least affected by team recognition
@@seokkyunhong8812also sentry’s don’t really care about team recognition lmao
It's not called gatekeeping, it's called upholding/having standards.
no, it IS gatekeeping, what people fail to realize is that gatekeeping is based as fuck
It is called gatekeeping and it should also be called good and necessary. It's the only way to keep out grifters, tourists and concern trolls.
@@Mirthful_Midoriaverage tf2 cultist cope
@@M50A1 ok tourist
@@dryspongeyt7353 I've played the game for 6 years. Cope and seethe
I mean, yes, TF2 certainly has better team recognition than many other games, especial modern games, but damn did it become a difficult task over the years to tell who's who because of huge paint regions and lack of team color.
The background footage was some of the funniest and also most surreal things I've ever seen. It's as if you're playing Spy but you're actually playing Pyro and your disguise is more convincing. Let's all hope that it doesn't get worse than this.
this video has genuinely helped me realise why some maps look out of place. Never was able to get why, now i know. Colour palettes and allat
In addition to team recognition, cosmetic colors can even affect weapon recognition! One of the main ways to tell the rocket jumper apart from the regular rocket launcher is its bright orange color, since the smaller details aren't really easily identified most of the time. Unfortunately, war paints now exist that can make the rocket launcher look mostly orange. I've had at least a couple instances where I was caught off guard by what I thought was a silly trolldier suddenly blasting my ass with a regular rocket launcher.
Putting a pinned comment here before the premiere (I'll replace it with something else I've written after it goes live):
Finally, a new "major" video completed. Took me what, over a year since the last one? Kept you waiting, huh? And this time, NOT related to weapons or game balance. This is a first, so let's see how it goes.
No, the thumbnail is not Emesis Blue...please watch more movies...
can i expect boobs in this
I understand why you made this, but there is only like 3 sets that you can fool people with. For one life only. Then I know “that pyro with that load out is not on my team”. I am looking forward to the vid tho cause I wanna see your vids
@@PolioInc3 sets too many don't you think?
is it face off
i didn't realize it until you mentioned it but the thumbnail is emesis blue!
Scout has had the wrong pants color for the entire game's lifespan and no one has noticed
That's how much the non-red/blue colors don't work as replacements
Lot peoples did noticed they just thought that it vaule intended it to be like that.
@@piegineer9130the xbox version makes it blu. So no. Dev oversight.
the workshop has the community fixes that make the pants of many scout cosmetic items team colored.
@@tearex8688 "So no" what? Piegineer didn't say it wasn't a dev oversight, only that some people did notice it and thought it was by design.
@@tearex8688As it would turn out, apparently the BLU Scout’s pants are colored wrong simply because the devs forgot to hide the RED pants in the original texture’s PSD. (Source: Early 2023 Valve Dev Repo leak)
Finally someone who doesn't sugar coat it.
Just because you are good at 3D doesn't mean you are good at design
23:28 the most tragic story ever put to a screen
THE PYRO IS DEAD
Zesty is a true statesman for tf2.
He is not the hero tf2 deserves
But the one it needs
@@dankmemes8254tf2 deserves him…but not the community
It's kind of fascinating how his whole internet presence is like the "they hated him because he told them the truth" meme. Literally every "controversial" opinion Zesty has ever expressed became the consensus sometime later, and almost every single one of his haters with a big name in the community is either a genuinely bad person or a mentally ill zoomer
@@kerzch672 I think it goes back to the whole "people hate hearing someone speak with authority" thing, regardless of how agreeable a take may actually be.
@@kerzch672 Multiple things can be bad at once you know. Zesty isn't a great person either, but he's right about the team recognition issues.
19:30 actually pyros axe is not team colored and is red on both teams. It’s something that’s bothered me for a while but luckily the default pyro melee is worthless and pretty much a straight downgrade from any of his other options so you don’t ever really see it.
The weapon that is way more of an issue for me is the lugermorph being blue on both teams.
I think the skins shown in this video are much worse than either the stock Axe or the Lugermorph. Both the Axe and the Luger have small colored areas comparatively to the player model, which makes them not much of an issue in practice.
Also the fire axe is... well, a fire axe. Fire axes have red axeheads. I'm happy to let it go, because it's at least replicating the colours of a real-world object. So if I see a Pyro holding it, regardless of team, I can at least immediately recognise what weapon it is.
@@fabulousauruspeks7010 not to mention the luger is much more muted in terms of color, so it doesn't distract your eyes too much on their path to find the right team color
woops
I'm surprised that it wasn't fixed when the Sydney Sleeper got its repaint.
Ethical gatekeeping, I'm into it.
Huge respect to you bro! (Original orange box TF2 player here) I can appreciate a lot of the new cosmetics and stuff but you're so right about the visual confusion some of these cause. It's all about keeping to the rules Valve had originally made when they cared. That's some seriously high quality video you made..! Cheers mate!
Do you have the primeval warrior badge?
@@seronymus On my current account I don't since I made a new steam account. My original account that was shared with my younger brother (now his account) does have it I think.
I think the Bushman could be fixed by making it so Sniper doesn't have his vest, it's only his torn shirt so his entire torso is that contrasting red/blue it should be
or add a more prominent red/blu accessorie like a red chocker or band
Just color the vest.
@@Sleepy_Cabbage or tattoos. give the man some sleeves
I saw a similar look for the torn shirt, Sniper gets team colored forearm wraps.
Some red or blue tattoos would be awesome. Can/have cosmetics be(en) updated this way?
As someone getting a degree in graphic design, this video is super interesting to watch. Thank you, zesty Jesus.
As far as the colour goes, I notices that even the puff of smoke a Spy produces is faintly team-coloured, possibly the same colour as the Medic's default coat.
Red/blu gives you wings
Excellent points and S tier video.
I hope Valve makes the item contributors to change the paint of the troublesome cosmetics. But that won't happen
Luckily we that run community servers can just blacklist the cosmetics all together. But it still sucks for casual players to get bamboozled by players who paid money for cosmetics.
Hi GPS
Man used to watch your old videos about TF2 weapons used in casual by you or your viewers. Miss those videos
The message being people like the TF2 emporium are ruining the game because their cosmetics interferes with the core game mechanics of team recognition. The tf2 emporium don't care about tf2 but they want to line their pockets with ruining the game and getting social clout as the ones valve selects for their cosmetics. Last time I heard of a situation like this it was the Titanfall 2 debacle of a hacker ruining the servers because they had a connection with the gaming company through exclusive access so I suspect this may be the same situation of those individuals of the emporium having a contact in Valve.
I thought this was gonna be a shit, generic video essay made by a 16 year old who obviously spent more time reading synonyms in dictionaries than editing.
I'm happily proved wrong. And now properly informed on a topic I didn't know about.
Thank you for this awesome video.
Finally! A comprehensive explanation on why I love TF2, but can't even watch clips from Overwatch. I have sensory integration disorder and it was all the colors making it hard to enjoy other multiplayer shooters, huh.
Neurotypicals with no sense for aesthetic harmony is legitimately depressing times. Are you autistic? You must be at least adjacent. See it as a blessing not a curse.
Great video, very detailed.
Might as well use these cosmetic sets myself in the future, looks funny af
Hello!
Looking forward to see people accusing you of cheating for using those loadouts!
That is a great idea lol. Looking forward to it!
*We do a little bit of trolling in hightower*
@@h0rnyinvent0r69 zesty watchers will call cheats for anything tbf
Death of an art style the sequel
It's always bothered me how in a game where the default colour palette is so well designed, people whether memeing or otherwise decide to paint their cosmetics lime green or bright pink.
Idk how the TF Team decided those paints were a good idea, not only are they bright as hell but they don't even go by the 'teams have different hues of color' rule
@@dodsonboysI'd argue that the lime and pink paints are really tame compared to a lot of the whack ass cosmetics we get now. Hell back when those paints were introduced, the most put there cosmetics were all collab items. A Red Scout with three cosmetics painted bright lime paint is still clearly a Red Scout. Doesn't work as much nowadays though.
@@Calvin_Coolage I mean you aint wrong but I still think theyre ugly as sin
was thinking of that the whole time
@Calvin_Coolage i think your right. Those paints were made for a different time.
Honestly if it weren't for the shitty cosmetics and paint regions I would say that even though a lot of warpaints look very saturated and obvious/eye catching, they aren't a problem. But unfortunately those shitty cosmetics DO exist and so warpaints end up compounding the issue. Having flashy war paints in and of itself isn't necessarily an issue, it just compounds a different, egregious issue.
I love your that profile picture. I really do.
TOO
BAD
THAT'S
OVERSHADOWED
BY
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Zesty Jesus is the king of hot takes. Everyone wants to give him shit, but sometimes you need a person like that to keep things on track.
Not to mention, 7 times out of 10, the dude is right. The only times he's ever been wrong was with his opinion on Sniper being broken, and even than, that's more or less debatable.
I'm not saying all his opinions are right, but they are just that "opinions".
someone who goes against the common consensus on things like this is always more important than everyone who agrees with the common consensus
@@chillyconmorit depends on if their doing it just to be a contrarian, but it zesty's case I agree
Fitting of you to release this the night (presumbly) before the yearly Scream Fortress update
I gazed at the workshop and the workshop gazed back. And then i bleached my eyes
@@CoolSsbe careful, lest you gaze at the abyss of the workshop, and it stares back at you....
@@seronymus the sad reality. few years ago when we start getting trash items added to tf2. i start regularly checking the workshop when i feel bored and i tell you. i reject 8 of from every 10 items. the best argument against giving tf2 back to the community is one quick browse of the workshop and playing on the average uncletopia server.
joke aside. it so rare to find weapon submission and normally they either super old from 2011 and the newest normally are from 2016. anything newer look so bad that you will only see on custom weapons servers. i swear to god. if i see any more random object as a hat or a furry or csgo or any variant of pentagram/magic circle/PNG/electricity vomit unusual effect. i am GOING TO DO A FLIP. the rarest and i say really rarest. is an item that fit the original aesthetic of tf2 on the workshop.
@@CoolSs 100% I feel your pain as I started in 2012 and am an artist haha... There is so much obvious slop on the workshop, whether from just looking for money or incompetence or both, that it's disheartening at times because you can extrapolate and relate that to a lot about life too. Surgeon's Law: 99% of stuff is garbage. And I know I'm "Objectively" smart and creative yet even I don't churn out what I could , and I love the tf2 aesthetic, and one day when I upload I want to do it justice. I don't care about money. As Dostovesky once wrote, beauty will save the world. I think a big reason why I don't worry for AI art, yet also feel heartbreak, is because art ultimately is a reflection of soul, and you can feel love poured in. Do you? Anyway, yeah it's no coincidence maybe the worst offenders of uploaders also seem to be, well let's say one popular slop churner is a nonbinary furry (memes aside, no hate to furries btw, many actually aren't insane) in Northern Italy. Lord have mercy
@@seronymus 👌
Zesty is a fucking necessary part of the TF2 community because he does what few others have the balls to do and openly criticize people and things for the sake of keeping this amazing game as amazing as it is.
i mean, you're right, but at the same time it's too late
i'm pretty sure they can't legally remove the problematic items or even paints from the game
guess we just gotta wait for team fortress 3 🤷♂️
@@fortnitesexman Maybe not, but we can most certainly push back against having more of these items added.
he makes good points but i'd respect him more if he didn't throw fits over fictional hats
@@mrcosmos6986 then don’t watch him??
@@fortnitesexman They can't remove them, but they can easily edit them. They just did it with CSGO.
Valve knows, they just don't care. I really wish people would stop worshipping the ground they walk on because they made some good video games nearly 15 years ago.
It's so strange. Back in the Facepunch days the emporium was very critical of this with good-actors like NeoDement and NaSSimO always putting out seriously good direction/critique. I remember some uproar with some of The_Ronin's more questionable items getting accepted, while at the same time a lot of people were just happy that he was one of those stories where collaboration with Valve had taken him out of poverty.
Those days were long gone, and their connection to Valve + the profits had blinded their minds. They betrayed their own philosophy
NeoDement is literally among one of the creators popping out gimmicky holiday crap nowadays
He fell off from grace
Greed changes people
@@bassbusterxalso to put it bluntly, a number of the newer creators are woke zoomers with souls that can't properly appreciate beauty, is a way I'd put it
@@seronymusmore like the lack of soul
it mostly falls on valve. they keep picking the same workshop creators over and over again because its convenient to not have to contact creators and set up legal stuff for payment and all that. So the creators stop caring about QC. if valve actually looked at the workshop instead of just their 'followed creators' list there'd might actually been some quality control
Important to note that you need to fill out your bank info before your submissions can even be seen by others, though Valve still has a handful of names that they keep in mind. There are plenty of fantastic submissions on the workshop every season, yet they're always ignored by Valve.
I feel like a science fair is a better analogy than the whole restaurant analogy he brings up every so often. Yeah, a crummy baking soda volcano might win first place, but cussing out the kid that made it won't exactly help anyone (nor will whining about other equally crummy baking soda volcanoes that could've won). It's the fault of the judges for picking it in the first place, failing to adhere to guidelines that _they themselves_ set up.
Are people making goofier, wackier items? Yep. Lax quality assurance on Valve's end encourages it. But the whole "evil workshop cabal only in it for the money" thing is just so vitriolic lol.
@wowzalord Sound like the dodging of accountability, the cabal is real, when a minority had a whole impact and control on what content to be in the game that decides in the name of the community. Then yes, they're the cabal. It's not vitriol at all. It's the fault of both sides. Both betrayed their own guideline.
The only one that play the pretending game here is you. Let me guess, Emporium's drone?
@@wowzalord I'm not sure I'd describe it as vitriolic. It's pretty clear the people making these cosmetics know they're fucking with TF2's art style and team recognition. They deserve the criticism laid against them. It'd be vitriolic if they weren't aware of the impact they were having.
Cosmetic creators be like: "I'm not responsible for team recognition issue, just don't paint the item dummy."
My brother in Christ, you made the item. You made the item and made sure that most of it is paintable. You knew exactly what you were doing.
Zesty out here gatekeeping for the right reasons.
Most workshop creators just dont understand what it means to fit into TF2. You can be the most talented modeler, or artist on the planet but if you can't make something that works with the games philosophy and style, then it doesnt matter
Really nice video, man! As a colourblind player that REALLY loves how TF2 artstyle in its default state has never made me have any trouble with it, it's really nice for someone to talk about this!
Ironically I've seen some complaints from other colourblind players, who actually have problems with TF2's colour palette. People who are completely achromic, and see everything in black and white, cannot tell the teams apart. Because the particular reds and blues used in-game were selected to have the exact same luminance. So in a pure greyscale image, the teams become impossible to distinguish.
@@tbotalpha8133 better to sacrifice accessibility for some players if the rest can recognize everything at a glance
@@tbotalpha8133dont worry theyre not missing out on much
@@tbotalpha8133While that is certainly an issue, other games aren't much better with making their fof distinction color independent. Often they just rotate around colors, but that doesn't help when there is no color to begin with.
Sad Comments in General
Great Humanistics
People who use "the art style is evolving" as an excuse for shit cosmetic design are the exact same as people who use "language evolves" as an excuse for not knowing which "your" or "they're" to use. There's evolution, and then there's being willingly stupid and lazy.
Yea I'm lazy with that language. Especially online lol.
Ah, like the misuse of the word "literally".
@@ArbitraryOutcome literally true
it's actually "yore"
America's literacy rates are in a dumpster right now. Seriously, listen to Old English. It sounds so much better than modern diluted English.
Fuck, even listen to interviews of random passersbys in the 50th - 80th. They sound way more intelligent than majority of people in America.
the robloxification of TF2 is a sad development having played it over a decade ago
a lot of items on the workshop look like sims 4 custom clothes lmfao
I can describe the workshop creators as..."toxically positive". They just want a hugbox where nobody is criticized but as a consequence nothing is improved or prevented from deteriorating with their indisputably awful ideas for cosmetics.
Yea basically.
This is just modern internet dwellers summarised
I've sen this before. truesonicspirit has a video called 'positivity' that can give you details on both sides of the toxins.
Reminds me of the radical left: "Love everyone. Unless it's someone that *doesn't* love everyone. Then hate them."
@@raven75257correct
Shoutout to that one funke vid where his suit for spy glitched out and tried to trick his teammates,
"Guys lets hate this youtuber because how dare he criticise a game how dare he say anything that slightly be seen negatively to the game i play 24/7"
This is phenomenal. I love how you broke down the color choices made for the base game, to the point of showing what red/blue colored regions are on them that will stick out to players, and then showing how horribly newer cosmetics follow this principle later on in the video. It was a real eye-opener.
The "Who's shooting at me?" bit, along with those Fake Red Pyro / Fake Blue Pyro segments, really cement that this is a real, tangible issue, and I'm glad you have the guts to bring this up. Great stuff, dude.
A game that was completely killed, for me at least, because of cosmetics getting in the way of visibility was Among Us
In a game where recognising specific colors is CRUCIAL, there are multiple cosmetics that don't change based on your body color, and that allows for some combinations where your body color and your cosmetics color complement eachother (black and dark grey specially), which makes it a lot harder to recognise the color of someone at times
Finally! Another person who pointed this out!
yeah lol. The only reason I stopped playing among us frequently was because of those full body cosmetics that completely covered the head region. Body region is... decent, but mainly head part being covered or recolored makes it impossible to distinct by color, so you're forced to memorize the nickname or how the hat is called, while time is of the essense in, for example, immediately pointing out who you suspect.
Man I wish to return to those moments of chill game, with old soviet music playing in the background.
As the artist loser THANK YOU for finally talking about this! TF2’s artstyle is so deliberate with so much detail put into it, it physically pains me seeing people think cosmetics like these are okay to play with and against
Based fellow artist
If my cosmetic setup throws off your game that badly, it's doing its job by giving me an advantage.
@@CoralCopperHead_if you require cosmetics to throw off your opponents to be better then them, that’s a skill issue._
@@origamiman7891 Learn, Adapt, Evolve. _If you can't fight me because of my cosmetics, _*_that's_*_ a skill issue._
@@CoralCopperHead I have bad eyesight, I don’t got a skill, I got a biological issue.
Medics and Spies specifically not being able to tell what team you were on was actually kinda funny, since they're the two that have special class-specific indicators of if you're looking at an ally or enemy that have always been extremely redundant
maybe the TF2 devs knew cosmetics would be a thing even back when the game first released and decided to future proof things for those two (it didn't work, but that's probably more a testament to TF2 players than to the problem itself)
yah, no silly cosmetics. Or unoptimized textures and models while we are making the whislist.
The simple, minimal, period accurate outfit variations that ooze character up close or on a killcam but are practically invisible in combat are my favourites.
Zesty is gatekeeping. It's because he cares. And he's right.
What people don't understand is that the castle needs walls and guards to protect it. Nothing wrong with gatekeeping
@@NoSoupForYouu -average powertripper cope
@@NoSoupForYouu becauce those "Guards" always would becompletle objektive and fair, suuuuuure.
@@NoSoupForYouu How's your copium supply doing?
@@Acacius1992 No, not always. But on the whole, the castle is safer with them than it would be without them.
The only people trying to "evolve" the art style of TF2 are the guys trying to change it.
Yea.
You're definitely the spiciest of all Tf2bers. Your takes are normal, but you make them hot with strong wording. I agree with the points made in the video, but I would also like to see some suggestions on how Valve can fix this without screwing over the old cosmetic owners.
Cosmetics would be refunded automatically, and things such as strange qualities and unusuals would be placed on Strangifiers and Unusualifiers to be applied to something else if you wish
@@waitingfortheequinnox That would piss a lot of people off. But if someone really sought to bring the game back to the genius core design elements it was based on and continue to go further with them, they would need to take this nuclear option. Same thing with big balance and gameplay changes.
Twitter (t)roons absolutely malding over this one.
Coping, seething, dilating
go outside
@@birbeyboop most people IRL are bigoted in various ways, Goth Osaka, I'm sorry but it's true. Even in liberal western countries.
I'm happy we still have zesty in this landscape of copy pasted tf2 content
I dont know man im getting pretty tired of seeing pyros stupid fucking clown pants
"Why TF2 is a timeless classic"
@@StitchPen "the second of teamwork fortification immortal staying power: whyth"
@@StitchPen>insert shittily made sfm of a trending or dying meme
and that guy, while reasonable, acts pretentious about preserving the base game and acts hostile towards people who disagree with him. it really does apply to most humans if you think about it.
RIP every casual lobby for next few months
Blessing and a curse.
No hats mod users, where we at?
19:30 Minor nitpick: the fire axe is actually just always red, not team-colored
Oh nooooooo
but because zesty said it people will try to pass it off as nothing until someone else speaks out and then everyone will agree with em
Funke moment
i liked the part where you talked about the uss liberty incident
Really great stuff
Never forget
I had no idea the TF2 Emporium was involved!
>30 minute Zesty Video
Oh yeah!
>Shitting on bad cosmetics
**OH YEAH!**
you understand tf2's artstyle more then tf2 itself
Hmm, I wanna make money. How about I make an item that fits the game? Nah fuck it here’s a pink cosmetic with a paint region the size of Russia
That is a REALLY good thumbnail, can't wait for the premiere
Sad I missed the Premier, hope you enjoyed it tho Mr Blobfish
Love you sournale big fan here bro
Did not think I would see the blobfish here, but it's cool you're here.
Your HUD didn't do this video justice because we couldn't see what your (bottom left) player model looked like in real time when players misinterpreted what team you were on.
i believe it actually helped the video
By showing us what team he is actually on, we can see the absolute absurdity that is workshop paint regions. We can see how far we have strayed from the original design philosophy.
no. That's exactly what you want. The model tells you they're blue while red enemies are blind to him
@@alterrahos still, he could've had the 3D player model on, with the BudHud Team Color line also turned on, along w/ the team-colored view model.
Would be the best of both worlds, really.
There was a fempyro mod on there too lol
My friend blurted out "The war between TF2 conservatives and the TF2 liberals is going to be wild" halfway through the video and that's just all I've been thinking about while watching the entire thing
Tell your friend he is unironically a genius for seeing the real subtext behind all this. I have seen the type of person who makes those Tf2 emporium drama comments (e.g. "the artstyle is evolving!"), take a wild guess the ideology LOL. The polarized society is inescapable the past decade, I'm sorry.
I'm a left wing libertarian and I believe the term you're looking for is "positive freedom" vs "negative freedom". By adding cosmetics that harm team recognition you are taking away freedoms to play the game from others. "Conservatives" in this instance would want to return to old style cosmetics for the sake of old style cosmetics.
@@shrub8644 Do you support Israel or Palestine?
@@seronymus Where tf did that come from?
@@shrub8644 "im a left wing libertarian" bruh pls don't tell me you're a Zionist
Hmph bad workshop creators 💢💢💢💢 Deleting correction needed😭😭😭😭