Remember the badass speech from Riddler before the finale? How he said he will make the entire city bow before him? And the next episode immediately started with him captured off-screen, and somehow stayed captured for years
@@radhawkman2249 I'm not talking about Batman, I'm talking about how after they build up Riddler and Penguin will cause havoc in Gotham, the very next episode had a 15 years time skip, and said both of them were captured 15 years ago, which means they were defeated by GCPD the same year they made that badass speech, and somehow stayed captured for 15 years without ever escaping
@@tangroro I get what you mean. It's kind of underwhelming and it feels truncated, like they set sth up only to abandon it without using it at all. At least they should've had a bigger impact on the finale so we leave the show knowing they're still a big deal.
@@nocte.animam not only that, if both Riddler and Penguin are so weak the GCPD along can easily defeat them and keep them locked up for years, then Batman really isn't needed
@@tangroro You're right about that omg kfkdkd Plus, we've grown to known them as highly intelligent, skilled, menacing villains. We should never underestimate them. Their attempt at bringing Gotham to its knees must've been so lame it makes sense we didn't see it on screen bc imagine how underwhelming it'd be for the viewer 😂 What a far cry from the dynamic duo they can be. Maybe it was a way for the show to imply the GCPD has more impact and control, or that they got more efficient ???? idk.
I agree I want see who trained him, was it really nyssa al ghul. Edited: it was teased in season 4 and season 5 respectively, btw Where he had drug hallucination, from ivy pepper and the nightwing project as bat swarm came out
Also for catwoman, the most we got was when bruce and selina were attacking Bane, and then Bruce put that thing on Bane that attracted bats to it. For catwoman, the only time we see any resemblance of cats is when selina gets pushed out of the buidling by Bruce Wayne's clone and then a bunch of cats huddle around her
Say what you want about Gotham's penguin but Robin Lord Taylor KILLED that role. He knew his assignment and aced it w/ perfection. His portrayal of the Oswald Cobblepot is the best to date.
I thought this show went out of its way to not be what I knew of Batman's world, so it seems like too little too late to try to emphasize in the finale. Idk, I stopped watching it after the second or third season.
i love gotham to death, including season 5, but it feels like nothing actually happened in the finale, and in my opinion, it shouldve been a two parter
Yh maybe make an hour and half the season was half of other ep and also the one we’re Bruce used the gas ep was and hour and a half felt like was rush badly joker was ok didn’t make full sense bur need more ep or a lot lot more they could of done and now that they have jumped 10 yes they can’t go back to make other season unless they show what happen to Bruce and his training of what happen to jim alfrd catwoam was a very sad ending for die hard fans
@@eduardochavacano yeah i didnt like her either, she was mostly a plot device for penguin's development, but i loved penguin's development enough that fish being annoying didn't really bother me
One thing nobody can take from Gotham is the fact that it is the most well cast adaptation of the source material that we have ever, and are likely to ever see.
I liked it for what it was. Let's be real we can tell the difference between a finale that was rushed due to the show ending and they had to make SOMETHING vs. throwing ANYTHING together just for the sake of 'ending' a show.
I never really considered this episode the finale. I know it's literally the finale as in it's the last episode, but the episode that came before this is the real finale. Everyone comes together to save Gotham City, that's the culmination of the show we all watched. The last episode is more or less an epilogue, as opposed to a true finale.
Bugfrog57 at some point penguin can be a bit cringy. But that was really the point. The Casting for the older Ivy was not great. And the older Selina Kyle was awful too.
They didn’t have a choice. It was cancelled after season 4, when the writers always planned for at least 7 seasons. Then they were given permission to do 10 episodes to wrap the show up and after most episodes were filmed fox said they could have 2 more episodes which is why some of them were just filler.
Lastly, I think the whole Gordon growing the mustache just to shave it off thing feels somewhat disjointed with the approach it has, otherwise, to established Batman lore. The whole fact Gordon shaves it off and dismisses it as a bad idea on one hand is the show being like, "We're paying a nod to the source material, but we stand by our Gordon." However, on the other hand, it retrofits its unique and iconic takes on Penguin and (to a lesser extent) Riddler to match the general mythos. So, yeah.
@@corysmith564 yeah I agree. I remember a few years prior on Halloween the actor dressed as Batman TAS Jim Gordon with the grey hair, mustache and glasses and thought "I cant wait for him to look that that" but he didn't have those features. Perhaps not the gray hair but yeah at bare minimum Jim in the final episode should've looked like he did in The Dark Knight. It's like everyone aged except for him
They did it because a mustache and glasses dont fit to this actor lol there is no other reason he would just look like a wish version , while u all expect a gordan like in dark knight
With Gotham ending in 2019, I think it would be great if by 2029 we get a sequel to the show. If they make a show 10 years later, they could use all the original actors without any complaints because everyone actually is 10 years older. Getting a series where David Mazouz can finally play Batman, Camren Bicondova finally gets to play Catwoman, and Cameron Monaghan can truly play the Joker would be awesome
I grew to love this interpretation of the Batman universe. I love that it reminded us that Batman can be over the top ridiculous and fun as well as dark, not just one or the other. I love these versions of the characters and am happy they told their story.
What I liked is how after season 1 they embraced the fantastical aspects of the Batman universe instead it having to be stone cold serious and only realistic
@@BobPantsSpongeSquare97 Same here. Season 1 was fine, but the series drastically improved once it stopped trying to be so gritty and instead leaned into its comic-booky elements.
To be fair about the ten year jump feeling rushed, well that’s because it was. Warner Brothers was planning on canceling the series before the final season. But with major fan backlash along with cast members to give this series a finale, it ended up getting one BUT only with half a season’s worth of episodes. So I think more blame should be put on the executives.
The biggest problem, imo, is that it was rushed. Not just the last episode, but the entirety of the last season. They had half a season to satisfyingly wrap up several different plotlines from previous seasons, and on top of that they decided to try and introduce several new things. I feel I expected more with Jeremiah especially after the end of the previous season, as well as a more satisfying conclusion to the Cobblepot & Nigma storylines, as well as to their feud. The show was supposedly meant to go on for about 7 Seasons, but we got four and a half. Unfortunately at that point it's almost guaranteed that there are going to be some pacing issues. But I will say I did enjoy seeing glimpses of more comic book elements in the finale, even if they were unnecessary. Just for the sake of it, really, dumb as that may sound. Seeing the mustache was cool, the new Penguin look was pretty neat, and honestly the character was pretty natural going in that direction in later seasons anyway, though subtly, so I don't see it as that forced. I did prefer just the green suit and bowler hat for Riddler in earlier seasons, as well as that tone, but oh well. Also, the leather yellow gloves on J-Crusty were cool. That's a comic reference as well, kinda surprised you were puzzled at that one. But that's just my brief thoughts on the finale. I could honestly probably do a small essay if given the chance, but alas, no one will read this if it gets any longer lmao
7 seasons!!?! They had "plans" for 7 seasons of this show??? 🤯 GOTHAM had 100 episodes total in its runtime. By comparison, THE SOPRANOS had 86. DEADWOOD had 36. JUSTIFIED had 78. THE WIRE had 60 episodes. Several of the greatest TV shows in history with very complex characters & interconnected storylines from the pilot episode to the series finales, & they all did it under 100 episodes. No, it's actually pretty shoddy writing if you get past 80 episodes & THEN have to take shortcuts to try & wrap everything up, which is what happened to GOTHAM. It's laughable to the point of being a Joker-induced psychiatric break for GOTHAM's braintrust to suggest they needed 7 seasons, or 150 episodes, to properly tell their story. That's not good TV writing, that's drifting through bloated network TV episode orders while hoping to just hit enough total episodes to get sweet syndication royalty checks in the future.
@@CM-jc7gk While I agree already planning for 7 seasons when you only have 3 thus far is definitely a poor idea, I don't see how that makes the writers awful. Honestly, TV syndication just _sucks._ Most shows are either stretched way longer than intended to the point where characters regress, plots are reused, and the whole thing is milked dryer than a raison and dies; or its cut short long before its time, and they have to wrap things up far sooner than they expected, leaving countless loose ends and plot holes. And it has little to do with the writers! If a writer gets their show renewed for another season right as they're about to make the planned finale, and they refuse to rewrite it to stretch it out? They'll be fired and replaced by someone who will. If a show gets cut short and they want to continue it on their own, as a novel or something? Too bad, they don't own the rights to it. The only sure way to avoid all that is to plan only one season at a time, which _can_ work fine; but it by far reduces a writer's ability to plan ahead and create truly satisfying, long-running experiences. But I've never worked with TV; this is all inferred based on what I've watched, read, and written (not published) myself. Also, I don't watch _Gotham_; I'm not specifically talking about it.
Yh that season finale of smallville still pisses me off to this day lol. Shame I really loved that series but yh. They never should have implemented the no flight no tight rule. I understand they didn’t want to create a suberboy show so I agree with no tights. However in all versions Clark is shown to learn how to fly at a very young age in pretty much all of his incarnations. Yet in smallville they stubbornly hold on to that rule but nonetheless a great show. The finale no, Tom refusing to put on the full suit was utter crap. Those close up shots where horrible and not to mention cgi superman. Shame we could have had a great finale if he just wanted to put on the suit.
@@Tigerke1986 Agree with all of this. I love Smallville and there were a lot of things I loved about the finale but I really hoped to actually see Clark be Superman at the end.
In my opinion, the Penguin and Riddler acting goofy-ish was great, it always feels like the Riddler in comics was ment to be over the top , maniacal and sad. Season 5 ed was a better version of Jim carry's ed(no offense I love jim)and penguin has been in black gate for a decade so he's probably mad which can come across as goofy and the Monocle makes sence cuz he lost his eye in a fight.
If they continue “Gotham” they should call it “Gotham: Batman” . The show “Gotham” was about the villains, GCPD and how that affected Bruce. Now with the “Gotham: Batman” sequel - that will be about how Batman will affect the GCPD and villains.
The problem with that is that it just becomes another Batman, of which we have seen many times already. I mean what would be significantly different about this iteration of Batman other than being low budget? In Gotham we saw an interpretation of what Bruce's young life could have been and that was a new take, but if they continued the show from it's ending it would just be a fairly generic and second rate TV version of Batman.
@@jokerzwild00 well i wasn’t saying make Batman the star of the show or take over. I meant they should keep the villains and GCPD POV/perspective but throw in Batman every now and than to ruin a couple plans and what not....We can than see how this person dressed in black is ruining all the operations and plans of the villains and it will basically keep the same style of the show Gotham but Batman is more of a “every now and than” person only to mess up the villains.
@@NO-FILTER-EXPERT Ok well, spoiler alert, the whole point for Batman's existence is to fill in for how corrupt & worthless GCPD & Gotham politicians have become in the face of deep-rooted organized crime. Obviously GOTHAM does not follow that blueprint exactly, because GOTHAM is not a show designed to make any longterm sense. It's just silly nonsense across various Batman eras mixed into one bizarre network TV show. But even still, that's why GOTHAM hands it off to barely showing Batman announcing his presence in the city. That gets the writers of GOTHAM out of explaining everything Batman has to do to clean up a police department Gordon has already been involved with for a decade, instead of Gordon & Batman both being new. The show you're proposing would be Gotham police messing things up either from incompetence or corruption, & then everyone standing around shrugging before somebody finally says what everyone else is thinking, which is if that Batman guy will clean this up, does he have a phone number, will they get in trouble with Gordon afterwards, etc. Your pitch doesn't work without Gordon being new & at the bottom, essentially like BATMAN YEAR ONE.
They dropped the ball on all of season 5. They really should have used TwoFace since he was in the show often enough and a Hush story line would have pretty dope too. Shoehorning Bane and even the Ventriloquist was just in bad taste to me
Issue is though is that two face is created early in Batman’s career where in Gotham is years before and Harvey Dent is shown in the early seasons as a young attorney. The thing with hush is that his entire motivation is revenge on Bruce Wayne which causes him to come into conflict with Batman, but again he’s a kid in the Gotham show
@@jacobolinger2403 Most of the Gotham villain's came along after batman showed up. Joker, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, Freeze, Riddler and many more that were on the show. Ras Al Gual, the awfully handled Ventriloquist, and Solomon Grundy came in and died. The crime families like Falcone and Maroni were already dead by the time batman came on the scene and the GCPD were already clean because of Jim Gordon's efforts. Two Face and Hush would have been a good fit. Dent was already apart of the show and his evil side was already teased plenty of times and Thomas Elliot was in the first season. By the time the show ended, Bruce was already summoning bats. Instead of giving us villain's that were already teased in the show, we got bane who came out of nowhere, Ventriloquist and Harley Quinn who weren't even their original characters, and a conflict that made Bruce the PRIME suspect for being batman in the future. I think Dent and Elliot would be the perfect villain's. Dent can show Jim going through the struggle of losing Gotham's "white night" to crime and in the future having to partner with a dark night instead. And Bruce actually solving his first mystery would have been great to me. Hush could have even been the Bruce clone too.. OORRR Thomas Elliot actually being somehow revealed as the Bruce clone??
Actually believe it or not, hush did appear in the show. Thomas Elliot was that kid who bullied Bruce but then became friends with him in a later season which I just recently learned
The actress who played Selina for most of Gotham was the one who decided against playing the grown adult Selina/ Catwoman. It’s young Bruce Wayne did wear the Batsuit for those final moments and anytime he was stationary before that.
Echo as a predecessor to Harley does make perfect sense. In new 52, the Joker takes Harley down to a dungeon cell and shows her remains of previous Harleys. It all could be just a sick joke, but considering he just moved on to the next clearly obsessed girl (Punchline) after Harley, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of it was true. It is perfectly predatory psycho behavior. If Gotham got anything right, is the fact that they avoided painting the Joker (Jeremiah whatever) and Echo's association anything remotely romantic.
May only real issue with the finale is the time jump. The constant reminder is annoying, especially when characters look the same. As for the actress change for Selina, I recall that being Camren Bicondova's choice. While I still found season five entertaining, the hype for it was better than what we received. The season was rushed, the filler episodes could have been more focused on No Man's Land, and there's the obvious connections to "The Dark Knight Rises". I understand the issues though, and the struggle the series had when they weren't certain about how many episodes they were going to have. I've said this many times, but I wish there was more focus on the other vilains. The filler episodes should have focused on Freeze and Firefly. Freeze could have had a clone of Nora frozen. It would have explained why he kept working for Penguin and Strange. Strange provided a clone of Nora for Freeze's services, but she was still ill. Penguin provided income for Freeze so he could do the research for a cure. It could have been that easy. I don't know if the schedule couldn't work for the actor, but it would have brought the character back to where fans know him.
Bruce still looked 14 or 15 at best. It barely looked like the dude could drive. He didn't bulk up, nothing. It looked like a kid dressed up for holloween. It wasn't remotely believable, even for comics. That was the worst part for me. There was just no way they did anywhere near enough to make me believe that version of Bruce could ever become batman.. they didn't even bother aging him up at the end what so ever. Should have used a different actor all together for the final few episodes to potray the personality change and growth and make him seem more intimidating. Cause Bruce from the show, is not remotely intimidating in any way. Not physically, not in his cunning, nothing. Just never acted like batman.
@@user-ky9ou5dz9q that wasn't Bruce in the suit. If you look up behind the scenes photos, you'll see someone else was in the suit. They CGd the bottom of his face onto the actor
@@user-ky9ou5dz9q To say “he never acted like Batman” is not totally true imo. While he was never intimidating physically, I think he had all the markings of what would have developed into the bat. He was shown to be extremely intelligent, a good fighter, brave, selfless. The biggest thing for me though was the way he spoke. He spoke exactly how I imagined Batman to speak. I agree the final episode should have used a different actor, but I think he did a magnificent job in earlier episodes…
@@avationmusic I could SEE him becoming the person who could be batman, but we missed that entire transition and showing what he's like as an adult. We never got to see that switch flipped. It just switched to, hey that kid is batman now! See? He's in the suit! And to me that's not near enough. Take Smallville for example. When he becomes superman, ignoring the suit shenanigans, you knew he was more than ready. Like it was long overdue and that he had already became the kinda man it takes to be superman before hand, just didn't have the suit. Not the case at all here.
This show always had a weird ability to learn from it's mistakes quickly and adapt just enough to keep people interested. Like if you go back and watch season 1 it was originally an episodic "monster of the week" type format but they changed that to become the serial drama that it was until the end probably because the original didn't really work for the story they wanted to tell. Or like when they started bringing a bunch of characters back to life after killing them, or when they got a bit to much into the fanfic crap with penguin and riddler almost starting a romantic relationship. They recovered from all of these more or less and it ended up working just enough to get by. I think part of the reason why it worked is because you could tell they did genuinely care to create a good product and did seem to listen to criticism so people appreciated it for what it was. It always kind of had that amateur ao3 fanfic feel and that's basically what it was but sometimes they can have a certain charm to them. The finale was more or less in line with that so I liked it for what it was even though the entire series could've been a lot better.
I still can't believe that Pengiun, the fucking Penguin, would be in Blackgate for TEN fucking YEARS. The execs were afraid of the shit he (and Nygma) would do if they spent the whole ten years outside.
The main problem is how Gotham was forced to shorten. They had ideas for seasons 6 and 7, but were forced to end things with season 5. And season 5 was half as long as what their normal seasons were. However, FOX did allow them to do two extra episodes than what they were given. So if season 5 were two episodes shorter, it probably would’ve been more disastrous. If Gotham was given more time then I would have wanted “The Beginning…” to be split into two episodes. It just felt too rushed with what the finale did and they need more time. The other thing is that the show was left with lots of unanswered questions. We never saw what happened to Bruce’s clone that the Court of Owls made after he ran away. And we never did see Barnes (the Executioner) after he escaped custody. And with Sofia Falcone in a coma, does that mean she’ll face Batman in the future? We don’t even know where Nyssa al Ghul went to after taking the submarine. And even though it’s not shown, Robin Lord Taylor said that the dog Edward lived the rest of his days with Penguin’s maid Olga, but they both had to deal with the mess Penguin left behind. But I just wonder how Edward got to Olga since he was on the submarine with Nyssa. And we never really did get to see the gangs battle in No Man’s Land like Mr. Freeze, Firefly, and Scarecrow. So we get to see what happened to them after. Man-Bat was even teased at the end of season 4, but we never saw him in No Man’s Land. And since Fish Mooney killed Sal Maroni, that means he won’t be the cause of Two Face’s creation. They decided to cut out Harvey Dent’s storyline.
For the Catwoman recast they didn't have much choice. According to an article from The Wrap, Camren Bicondova decided not to return as Selina Kyle because of her discomfort playing an older version of the character.
I honestly love the finale. It’s great for what the show was, a predecessor to the bat himself. I always saw Jim as the main character and Bruce as a secondary, but important character.
Finally! A new video that isn't immediately spammed with "1st comment." It's a new day folks, and batman? Chef's kiss Also, just adapt the arkhamverse to live action, because arkham knight batsuit is metal as F.
See? Now This is why your mothers sent you guys to live with the weird uncle you've never heard of before and never came back. Also, let her know, checks in the mail.
To call it the worst finale ever is a overstatement because that final scene is masterful besides the cheap looking suit which is understandable he just started out. And also the scene with Joker and Batman in the ace chemicals plant or wherever it is (idk I haven’t watched the show in a while) is a brilliant
I loved Gotham when it first started. But I have to admit, I was never able to finish it. I'm not even sure if it was season 4 or 5 that I fell off the boat. I have tried to pick it up again a few times but just couldn't do it. Apparently I didn't miss out on much...except 10 years 🤷♀️
@@plugshirt1684 let just say they never planned after season 3. Since fox only ordered 12 episodes at time, I understand why it was so rushed. If they had chance to do 22 episodes, just maybe finale would be stretched out further
I just assumed they had to rush it because they thought they were gonna have more seasons despite having at least one hugely underwhelming season. I wasn't disappointed at the older Selina. At least her look. She didn't have enough of that mischievous attitude that Carmen displayed
For some reason, the moment I keep coming back to is when the Riddler and Penguin are walking down the street and then suddenly stop and look up at the sky to see Batman flying overhead. Which sounds cool on paper, except it's just silly on screen. They halt in their tracks and happen to look a thousand feet up... before Batman even comes into view. It's just a very sloppy few seconds of film.
I totally get your point. They terrorised gotham for like almost a decade, king of the underworld, and they are so scared for a weird bat like man who tied them up and appeared for just one day?! That totally does not make sense!
I remember binge watching this entire series and having a huge crush on Cameron bicondova and I absolutely love the show and watching the finale episode made me feel depressed because it’s over and I loved this show and it disappoints me that this happened.
@@spider-manunknown9193 I'm older than her (by two months I just looked it up) And I had a crush on her back then too. I was so disappointed when she and Bruce didn't get together in the end, but I understand that it goes against their characters. I just felt they really earned it.
@@VoidHeart56 yeah same. Selina last scene in the show was so un satisfying that it made me depressed like wtf I wanted them to be together and the last scene of the two of them is just depressing.
@@spider-manunknown9193 They have that scene in the second to last episode where Selina says "I will be here whenever you need me" and then rests her head on him before they cut away, and then they just have him leave. At least have a scene where he says goodbye ya know?
Personally, I was quite fond of the ending. Although the entire final season to be just felt rushed. Like, we went from "building go boom" to "GOTHAM IS NOW A WARZONE FOR 6 MONTHS" or something.
Completely agree with nearly your points, Vee! As a fellow watcher of "Gotham" from day one, I really feel the finale was a mixed bag, but, for me, the good mostly outweighs the bad. IMO, the premise of this episode should have been applied to the entire season, rather than just the final episode. This way, the time jump would be right at the front end of the season and you'd have some time to adjust to the new normal. Just my feeling on it!
I like how in the show there was this saying; 'Gotham has no heroes' and Batman shows up and he IS the hero, people say Batman is not a hero but a vigilante, but I think of Batman as a hero
Where the shows themselves were awesome up until the last episode BUT the Smallville finale imo is a great episode probably one of my favorites actually Tom didn't want to wear the suit and that's fine it woulda been awesome if he did but as a episode I really liked it
Gotham's finale was perfect. It was never supposed to be a show about Batman. Gotham was the central focus not Batman. So to have the finale be end with the only scene with Batman in it was the absolute best ending.
With J knowing is that even in the show and I think he said it himself, Jeremiah sensed this “darkness” in Bruce that always intrigued him so I guess J “remembered that.” Also, I don’t think J would revealed Batman’s secret identity since it would ruin the fun
I definitely agree with this penguin being his on version and having him wear the og costume was weird. Especially since I think charecters look better as actual humans rather than a colorful costume
Truth be told, it was almost bittersweet in a way seeing Batman in the end of the show. I may mock it for its predictability, lack of clear identity, and the fact that it was clearly making itself up as it went along, but I'm going to miss it.
Vee, Tom Welling's Clark has been drawn into the suit in the "Smallville" season 11 comics. I could honestly understand Selina knowing Bruce is Batman.
I definitely agree with how they treated Batman himself. Absolutely loved the fact that he was hidden in the shadows the whole time until the final shot. Probably my favorite part of the episode. Don't really care for "J" though. If falling into the acid broke Jeremiah even more and gave him some of the aspects of Jerome it would have been better, but it's still just a janky looking version of Jeremiah.
Instead of doing some batman origin bullshit, they could've just left us on a cliffhanger where bruce looks at the batsuit in the batcave with alfred saying some corny line like "It's time", I didn't like how they tried to squeeze in as much batman as they could.
Gotham was a show that deteriorated after the first couple of seasons. I would say when they killed Jerome was the shark jumping moment. But it was Ras Al Ghul that really killed it. His intro to a young Bruce Wayne made no sense for their relationship.
I wish it would have been a 2 hour finale like we would have seen more of Bruce like his return to Gotham reuniting with Alfred and Lucius and then see him in his proto batsuit once again and would learn that he needs to make his enemies fear him that's when the iconic Bat scene shows up by the window to give him the answer.
We are closing in on 6-7 years since the last S4 episode. This means it is now believable for time span on actors, and actresses. Perhaps if they remade these episodes with actors now, the released... it might explain, forgive, the episodes they had released prior.
I feel like this show had more story to tell, however, since Season 5 was a very last minute renewal decision and they gave them only a handful of episodes to finish this story, in my opinion they did better than I thought they would have
It was like 'spending time (days, weeks, months) regularly visiting a loved one in the hospital, but then not going to the funeral'---the loved one's life was okay and they were fun to be with, but it's just ... you don't get to be happy that they've passed on (which is why you go to funerals ... to celebrate the end of their suffering). But you're right about 'how Batman should've been more "a looming presence" than "an actual guy we know inside & out."' Sure, you could say that's what GOTHAM -was- for all the seasons ... but only for they who didn't know that Bruce Wayne was destined to be Batman. Maybe they should've done more movies that way ... possibly developing Bruce into more of 'an elderly gentleman who couldn't be doing all that Batman-stuff, until it's revealed that it was him all along.'
I love this show, One of my favorite shows of all time. I think Jeremiah knew it was Bruce because Ra's Al Ghul must have told him when they first met after Jeremiah's plan to destroy the city and turn it into a maze failed. There were a lot of implications that he knew Bruce's Destiny. 1. When Jeremiah asked to see Bruce in the GCPD interrogation room he said "My eyes are open as will yours be" 2. In the last episode of the series when Gordon goes to ACE chemicals to save his daughter Jeremiah says, "We are bound together he and I, it's one thing I knew for certain, the one thing I knew was true." There is no other way he could have known this, since Ra's Al Ghul kind of loved telling the future.
I recently watched the show and I enjoyed the final episode. There were a few things I didn't like how they mention it's been 10 years a million times and how Catwoman was recast, and they make Jim Gordon shave mid episode. But overall I enjoyed what they did and how they portrayed Batman even if the mask was a bit iffy. I'd give the last episode a 7/10. Not the worst definitely not the best but pretty good.
Gotham finale was the worst? If by "finale" then you mean the final three seasons, then that's exactly right. First two seasons or so were great. Far far better than I expected. Then it just became really stupid and awful
The problem with Gotham is that it developed it's own take on the Batman universe so that it *isn't* a prequel to something like Arkham or the comics, but rather a very long origin story to a Batman franchise that we're never going to see. Thus when you're finishing it all off you're actually setting up something that would have probably been its own unique take, and there's enough different that I would have been interested in watching them do an actual honest-to-god Batman story without having to deal with WB's ridiculous legal bullshit.
i hate what they did with the penguin and the riddler, they almost gave me nightmares at the beginning of their descent to evil and to see them so pathetic and fragile at the end made mad
gotham is easily my favorite dc show. I have rewatched it about 3 times now. I strongly agree with your points about the finale. I feel like the whole 10 year gap is truly what dragged it down. You are really gonna tell me the riddler stayed in Arkham for 10 years without breaking out once? That makes him look pretty dumb. Also joker pretending to be braindead for 10 years? Come on I know he's insane but that is just lazy writing lol
It was an unpredictable show with a very predictable ending. The ending made sense, but it wasn’t fully satisfying nor did it truly earn what we got. Also the whole final season 5 was a rehash of the Dark Knight Rises, only Bruce wasn’t Batman and was a kid.
i like the over the top-ness of the finale. i think it's definitely very camp and out there, but that's how it is in the comics- and i think that by having everything come together in just one episode of the show and having so many thorough storylines that converge is reminiscent of the way in the movies or episodes of various Batman shows, in which there are usually more than 3 storylines to follow, so i think they were doing that with the same comic book style as i mentioned earlier in mind.
Here’s my thing. According to the creators, Bruce Wayne is about 17 before the time jump. The way I see it, they intentionally aged him up initially (his parents died at 11 rather than 8) to provide him some agency in the comics, so why could they not have had him dawn the cape and cowl at 17? Sure, he might be a bit scrawny, but I think it would be easier to look past than the recast they did; ultimately, he could have pulled it off. It would be interesting to see if they could somehow make a movie set in the universe of this show.
I just didn't like Barbara Gordon's arc. Took me out of the show. I liked the parts that had other characters in them. Gotham was a 7.5/10 for me. Better than FLASH season 4 to whatever the hell they're doing with lightsabres.
Gotham is really weird in the way that it has some terrible things about it and then some other parts are near perfect so it creates a really conflicting show
The writers literally had multiple ideas of what they wanted to do with Barbara. They were originally going to have her become Harley Quinn. Then they considered to have her become Magpie hence why she had her hairstyle in season 4, but then they scrapped that too and introduced the real Magpie in one episode in season 5. I’m glad that Barbara didn’t become either of those two characters, but I agree her character arc is crazy. I think they decided to give her some of the character aspects of her son from the comics (Jim Jr.).
but one thing is 100% sure, the actors fit the role perfectly. Actors from gotham should be the same in every movie, there is no series / movie where the actors fit better. -The RIddler (Cory Michael Smith ABSOLUTELY STOLE MY HEART AS A RIDDLER) -Penguin -Alfred -Selina Kyle -Bruce wayne (Batman), David Mazouz should be more manly for the role of batman, that's my only objection
Blame fox they were shutting down Gotham forcing the writers to have to wrap everything up so fast. I respect them going all out and giving us Batman at the end
12:28 calling Mr. Freeze chilli fries made me laugh way too much 😂 The layers on that name is hilarious either intentional or not its a great one liner
Honestly if the finale was split into 2 parts with an hour duration for each episode everything would have felt way more cohesive and it would not have felt rushed
The finale was a like the first episode of a show we never got
Agreed
A back door pilot
@@nexusgiga oh yhnwhat happened to catwoman spin off that been teased way back
So very true
I think that was the point
Remember the badass speech from Riddler before the finale? How he said he will make the entire city bow before him? And the next episode immediately started with him captured off-screen, and somehow stayed captured for years
That’s how Batman works though 😂
@@radhawkman2249 I'm not talking about Batman, I'm talking about how after they build up Riddler and Penguin will cause havoc in Gotham, the very next episode had a 15 years time skip, and said both of them were captured 15 years ago, which means they were defeated by GCPD the same year they made that badass speech, and somehow stayed captured for 15 years without ever escaping
@@tangroro I get what you mean. It's kind of underwhelming and it feels truncated, like they set sth up only to abandon it without using it at all. At least they should've had a bigger impact on the finale so we leave the show knowing they're still a big deal.
@@nocte.animam not only that, if both Riddler and Penguin are so weak the GCPD along can easily defeat them and keep them locked up for years, then Batman really isn't needed
@@tangroro You're right about that omg kfkdkd Plus, we've grown to known them as highly intelligent, skilled, menacing villains. We should never underestimate them. Their attempt at bringing Gotham to its knees must've been so lame it makes sense we didn't see it on screen bc imagine how underwhelming it'd be for the viewer 😂 What a far cry from the dynamic duo they can be. Maybe it was a way for the show to imply the GCPD has more impact and control, or that they got more efficient ???? idk.
The thing I hated the most is: we barely get any explanation to why Bruce chose a bat as inspiration for his suit and not any other thing.
I agree I want see who trained him, was it really nyssa al ghul.
Edited: it was teased in season 4 and season 5 respectively, btw
Where he had drug hallucination, from ivy pepper and the nightwing project as bat swarm came out
@leon he means in gotham not in general
They hinted it many times
Also for catwoman, the most we got was when bruce and selina were attacking Bane, and then Bruce put that thing on Bane that attracted bats to it. For catwoman, the only time we see any resemblance of cats is when selina gets pushed out of the buidling by Bruce Wayne's clone and then a bunch of cats huddle around her
@@acer4pid319 I didn't like that she was older than Bruce. It doesn't fit the canon.
Say what you want about Gotham's penguin but Robin Lord Taylor KILLED that role. He knew his assignment and aced it w/ perfection. His portrayal of the Oswald Cobblepot is the best to date.
Oswald can match Heath ledgers joker honestly the best penguin
I think DaVito still tops that but Collin Ferrell was also better
@@ganondorf6363 no he wasn't
I thought this show went out of its way to not be what I knew of Batman's world, so it seems like too little too late to try to emphasize in the finale. Idk, I stopped watching it after the second or third season.
@@christopherward2334 your opinion is not a fact
i love gotham to death, including season 5, but it feels like nothing actually happened in the finale, and in my opinion, it shouldve been a two parter
that wouldve given it enough time to actually do the things it was hyped up to do
same
Yh maybe make an hour and half the season was half of other ep and also the one we’re Bruce used the gas ep was and hour and a half felt like was rush badly joker was ok didn’t make full sense bur need more ep or a lot lot more they could of done and now that they have jumped 10 yes they can’t go back to make other season unless they show what happen to Bruce and his training of what happen to jim alfrd catwoam was a very sad ending for die hard fans
its great... but Fish Mooney can be too cheesy and unrealistic. She was only on that show to fill the black quota. Everything else was great.
@@eduardochavacano yeah i didnt like her either, she was mostly a plot device for penguin's development, but i loved penguin's development enough that fish being annoying didn't really bother me
I want them to cast the same Riddler actor for a movie. I LOVED his take on riddler. I think he fit the role amazingly
Yesss penguin too
Facts
One thing nobody can take from Gotham is the fact that it is the most well cast adaptation of the source material that we have ever, and are likely to ever see.
@@aspiringjoker2883 Yes, the casting was awesome
@@OG.Trippster I would easily say it had the best Alfred, best Riddler, best Penguin, best future Catwoman, and of course best Joker
I liked it for what it was. Let's be real we can tell the difference between a finale that was rushed due to the show ending and they had to make SOMETHING vs. throwing ANYTHING together just for the sake of 'ending' a show.
Same thing happened to generator rex.
O
@@theirishpotato6588 Generator Rex and Symbionic Titan still hurt when I think about it.
@@theirishpotato6588 Man, I miss that show. :( It deserved better.
@@kauswekazilimani3736 same but I still love them.
I never really considered this episode the finale. I know it's literally the finale as in it's the last episode, but the episode that came before this is the real finale. Everyone comes together to save Gotham City, that's the culmination of the show we all watched. The last episode is more or less an epilogue, as opposed to a true finale.
yeah, this is basically my take... a bridge between the 'Gotham' we knew and the 'Batman' it would become
damn what a great take
@@lowlowseeseeand an obvious one
idk how the creator of this video missed it
I think the exact same
Penguin's and Nygma's character development from Season 1 to Season 3 is unmatched in the DC Universe.
penguin was a cringe lord in season 4
*a DC Universe
@@aurahoneydew9607 Every live action DC universe ever made*
the only that sucked was Fish Mooney
Bugfrog57 at some point penguin can be a bit cringy. But that was really the point. The Casting for the older Ivy was not great. And the older Selina Kyle was awful too.
They didn’t have a choice. It was cancelled after season 4, when the writers always planned for at least 7 seasons. Then they were given permission to do 10 episodes to wrap the show up and after most episodes were filmed fox said they could have 2 more episodes which is why some of them were just filler.
Lastly, I think the whole Gordon growing the mustache just to shave it off thing feels somewhat disjointed with the approach it has, otherwise, to established Batman lore. The whole fact Gordon shaves it off and dismisses it as a bad idea on one hand is the show being like, "We're paying a nod to the source material, but we stand by our Gordon." However, on the other hand, it retrofits its unique and iconic takes on Penguin and (to a lesser extent) Riddler to match the general mythos. So, yeah.
The dude was missing the freaking trademark glasses, which was way more important than the "mustache."
@@corysmith564 yeah I agree. I remember a few years prior on Halloween the actor dressed as Batman TAS Jim Gordon with the grey hair, mustache and glasses and thought "I cant wait for him to look that that" but he didn't have those features. Perhaps not the gray hair but yeah at bare minimum Jim in the final episode should've looked like he did in The Dark Knight. It's like everyone aged except for him
@• V i b e • yeah but he still should've had the mustache and glasses
They did it because a mustache and glasses dont fit to this actor lol there is no other reason he would just look like a wish version , while u all expect a gordan like in dark knight
If you like gaming: ua-cam.com/users/shortsCVJzpen-iJ0
With Gotham ending in 2019, I think it would be great if by 2029 we get a sequel to the show. If they make a show 10 years later, they could use all the original actors without any complaints because everyone actually is 10 years older. Getting a series where David Mazouz can finally play Batman, Camren Bicondova finally gets to play Catwoman, and Cameron Monaghan can truly play the Joker would be awesome
I grew to love this interpretation of the Batman universe. I love that it reminded us that Batman can be over the top ridiculous and fun as well as dark, not just one or the other. I love these versions of the characters and am happy they told their story.
What I liked is how after season 1 they embraced the fantastical aspects of the Batman universe instead it having to be stone cold serious and only realistic
@@BobPantsSpongeSquare97 Same here. Season 1 was fine, but the series drastically improved once it stopped trying to be so gritty and instead leaned into its comic-booky elements.
@@BobPantsSpongeSquare97
Serious police-serial-like series
Bruce in fantasy land
Joker
Joker 2
Joker 3???
Rushed end
To be fair about the ten year jump feeling rushed, well that’s because it was. Warner Brothers was planning on canceling the series before the final season.
But with major fan backlash along with cast members to give this series a finale, it ended up getting one BUT only with half a season’s worth of episodes.
So I think more blame should be put on the executives.
Not surprised it was WB's fault.
The biggest problem, imo, is that it was rushed. Not just the last episode, but the entirety of the last season. They had half a season to satisfyingly wrap up several different plotlines from previous seasons, and on top of that they decided to try and introduce several new things. I feel I expected more with Jeremiah especially after the end of the previous season, as well as a more satisfying conclusion to the Cobblepot & Nigma storylines, as well as to their feud. The show was supposedly meant to go on for about 7 Seasons, but we got four and a half. Unfortunately at that point it's almost guaranteed that there are going to be some pacing issues.
But I will say I did enjoy seeing glimpses of more comic book elements in the finale, even if they were unnecessary. Just for the sake of it, really, dumb as that may sound. Seeing the mustache was cool, the new Penguin look was pretty neat, and honestly the character was pretty natural going in that direction in later seasons anyway, though subtly, so I don't see it as that forced. I did prefer just the green suit and bowler hat for Riddler in earlier seasons, as well as that tone, but oh well. Also, the leather yellow gloves on J-Crusty were cool. That's a comic reference as well, kinda surprised you were puzzled at that one. But that's just my brief thoughts on the finale. I could honestly probably do a small essay if given the chance, but alas, no one will read this if it gets any longer lmao
I read it to the end
For real. Even the Gotham battle glimpses we see in Episode 1 look completely different to when we see it later on. Clearly rushed season.
7 seasons!!?! They had "plans" for 7 seasons of this show??? 🤯
GOTHAM had 100 episodes total in its runtime. By comparison, THE SOPRANOS had 86. DEADWOOD had 36. JUSTIFIED had 78. THE WIRE had 60 episodes.
Several of the greatest TV shows in history with very complex characters & interconnected storylines from the pilot episode to the series finales, & they all did it under 100 episodes.
No, it's actually pretty shoddy writing if you get past 80 episodes & THEN have to take shortcuts to try & wrap everything up, which is what happened to GOTHAM. It's laughable to the point of being a Joker-induced psychiatric break for GOTHAM's braintrust to suggest they needed 7 seasons, or 150 episodes, to properly tell their story. That's not good TV writing, that's drifting through bloated network TV episode orders while hoping to just hit enough total episodes to get sweet syndication royalty checks in the future.
@@CM-jc7gk While I agree already planning for 7 seasons when you only have 3 thus far is definitely a poor idea, I don't see how that makes the writers awful. Honestly, TV syndication just _sucks._ Most shows are either stretched way longer than intended to the point where characters regress, plots are reused, and the whole thing is milked dryer than a raison and dies; or its cut short long before its time, and they have to wrap things up far sooner than they expected, leaving countless loose ends and plot holes. And it has little to do with the writers!
If a writer gets their show renewed for another season right as they're about to make the planned finale, and they refuse to rewrite it to stretch it out? They'll be fired and replaced by someone who will. If a show gets cut short and they want to continue it on their own, as a novel or something? Too bad, they don't own the rights to it.
The only sure way to avoid all that is to plan only one season at a time, which _can_ work fine; but it by far reduces a writer's ability to plan ahead and create truly satisfying, long-running experiences.
But I've never worked with TV; this is all inferred based on what I've watched, read, and written (not published) myself. Also, I don't watch _Gotham_; I'm not specifically talking about it.
Make the essay, I will read it!
I'm really sad that this show ended the way it did. I really would like to see a timeline where the show went normal for it's planned season 5-7
if u implore
Personally liked the finale but I think it could've been way better and should've been in a 2 part finale
100%
Or a whole season, or 3, like the plan was
@@linandlang7016 how do you know?
1hr 30 min finale
@thelastingmoment dude Ik I was talking about the plot. Also you're grammar is bad
I was just suprised that Gordan wore a bulletproof vest.
Like dude, why weren't you wearing that shit daily?
I kinda liked it. Like, at least we actually saw him in the suit unlike Clark at the end of Smallville.
agreed
Same here, this was more like epilogue rather than final episode to no mans land arc during season 5
Yh that season finale of smallville still pisses me off to this day lol. Shame I really loved that series but yh. They never should have implemented the no flight no tight rule. I understand they didn’t want to create a suberboy show so I agree with no tights. However in all versions Clark is shown to learn how to fly at a very young age in pretty much all of his incarnations. Yet in smallville they stubbornly hold on to that rule but nonetheless a great show. The finale no, Tom refusing to put on the full suit was utter crap. Those close up shots where horrible and not to mention cgi superman. Shame we could have had a great finale if he just wanted to put on the suit.
@@Tigerke1986 Agree with all of this. I love Smallville and there were a lot of things I loved about the finale but I really hoped to actually see Clark be Superman at the end.
But in Smallville, the ending is not rushed
In my opinion, the Penguin and Riddler acting goofy-ish was great, it always feels like the Riddler in comics was ment to be over the top , maniacal and sad. Season 5 ed was a better version of Jim carry's ed(no offense I love jim)and penguin has been in black gate for a decade so he's probably mad which can come across as goofy and the Monocle makes sence cuz he lost his eye in a fight.
If they continue “Gotham” they should call it “Gotham: Batman” .
The show “Gotham” was about the villains, GCPD and how that affected Bruce. Now with the “Gotham: Batman” sequel - that will be about how Batman will affect the GCPD and villains.
We need David Mazouz back as Batman.
The problem with that is that it just becomes another Batman, of which we have seen many times already. I mean what would be significantly different about this iteration of Batman other than being low budget? In Gotham we saw an interpretation of what Bruce's young life could have been and that was a new take, but if they continued the show from it's ending it would just be a fairly generic and second rate TV version of Batman.
@@jokerzwild00 well i wasn’t saying make Batman the star of the show or take over. I meant they should keep the villains and GCPD POV/perspective but throw in Batman every now and than to ruin a couple plans and what not....We can than see how this person dressed in black is ruining all the operations and plans of the villains and it will basically keep the same style of the show Gotham but Batman is more of a “every now and than” person only to mess up the villains.
@@NO-FILTER-EXPERT Ok well, spoiler alert, the whole point for Batman's existence is to fill in for how corrupt & worthless GCPD & Gotham politicians have become in the face of deep-rooted organized crime.
Obviously GOTHAM does not follow that blueprint exactly, because GOTHAM is not a show designed to make any longterm sense. It's just silly nonsense across various Batman eras mixed into one bizarre network TV show. But even still, that's why GOTHAM hands it off to barely showing Batman announcing his presence in the city. That gets the writers of GOTHAM out of explaining everything Batman has to do to clean up a police department Gordon has already been involved with for a decade, instead of Gordon & Batman both being new.
The show you're proposing would be Gotham police messing things up either from incompetence or corruption, & then everyone standing around shrugging before somebody finally says what everyone else is thinking, which is if that Batman guy will clean this up, does he have a phone number, will they get in trouble with Gordon afterwards, etc.
Your pitch doesn't work without Gordon being new & at the bottom, essentially like BATMAN YEAR ONE.
Right, we need a Sequel no a gotham 6 season
I hated how almost every character died and came back multiple times
They dropped the ball on all of season 5. They really should have used TwoFace since he was in the show often enough and a Hush story line would have pretty dope too. Shoehorning Bane and even the Ventriloquist was just in bad taste to me
Issue is though is that two face is created early in Batman’s career where in Gotham is years before and Harvey Dent is shown in the early seasons as a young attorney. The thing with hush is that his entire motivation is revenge on Bruce Wayne which causes him to come into conflict with Batman, but again he’s a kid in the Gotham show
@@jacobolinger2403 Most of the Gotham villain's came along after batman showed up. Joker, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, Freeze, Riddler and many more that were on the show. Ras Al Gual, the awfully handled Ventriloquist, and Solomon Grundy came in and died. The crime families like Falcone and Maroni were already dead by the time batman came on the scene and the GCPD were already clean because of Jim Gordon's efforts.
Two Face and Hush would have been a good fit. Dent was already apart of the show and his evil side was already teased plenty of times and Thomas Elliot was in the first season. By the time the show ended, Bruce was already summoning bats. Instead of giving us villain's that were already teased in the show, we got bane who came out of nowhere, Ventriloquist and Harley Quinn who weren't even their original characters, and a conflict that made Bruce the PRIME suspect for being batman in the future.
I think Dent and Elliot would be the perfect villain's. Dent can show Jim going through the struggle of losing Gotham's "white night" to crime and in the future having to partner with a dark night instead. And Bruce actually solving his first mystery would have been great to me. Hush could have even been the Bruce clone too.. OORRR Thomas Elliot actually being somehow revealed as the Bruce clone??
Actually believe it or not, hush did appear in the show. Thomas Elliot was that kid who bullied Bruce but then became friends with him in a later season which I just recently learned
@@legogeneralgrievous3958 I know. It's a shame they wasted him a one episode throwaway
Gordon's mustache scene gave me Donte's "not in a million years" vibes!
The actress who played Selina for most of Gotham was the one who decided against playing the grown adult Selina/ Catwoman. It’s young Bruce Wayne did wear the Batsuit for those final moments and anytime he was stationary before that.
Echo as a predecessor to Harley does make perfect sense. In new 52, the Joker takes Harley down to a dungeon cell and shows her remains of previous Harleys. It all could be just a sick joke, but considering he just moved on to the next clearly obsessed girl (Punchline) after Harley, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of it was true. It is perfectly predatory psycho behavior. If Gotham got anything right, is the fact that they avoided painting the Joker (Jeremiah whatever) and Echo's association anything remotely romantic.
In the comics joker uses Harley
May only real issue with the finale is the time jump. The constant reminder is annoying, especially when characters look the same. As for the actress change for Selina, I recall that being Camren Bicondova's choice.
While I still found season five entertaining, the hype for it was better than what we received. The season was rushed, the filler episodes could have been more focused on No Man's Land, and there's the obvious connections to "The Dark Knight Rises". I understand the issues though, and the struggle the series had when they weren't certain about how many episodes they were going to have.
I've said this many times, but I wish there was more focus on the other vilains. The filler episodes should have focused on Freeze and Firefly. Freeze could have had a clone of Nora frozen. It would have explained why he kept working for Penguin and Strange. Strange provided a clone of Nora for Freeze's services, but she was still ill. Penguin provided income for Freeze so he could do the research for a cure. It could have been that easy. I don't know if the schedule couldn't work for the actor, but it would have brought the character back to where fans know him.
Bruce still looked 14 or 15 at best. It barely looked like the dude could drive.
He didn't bulk up, nothing. It looked like a kid dressed up for holloween. It wasn't remotely believable, even for comics.
That was the worst part for me. There was just no way they did anywhere near enough to make me believe that version of Bruce could ever become batman.. they didn't even bother aging him up at the end what so ever. Should have used a different actor all together for the final few episodes to potray the personality change and growth and make him seem more intimidating.
Cause Bruce from the show, is not remotely intimidating in any way. Not physically, not in his cunning, nothing. Just never acted like batman.
@@user-ky9ou5dz9q that wasn't Bruce in the suit. If you look up behind the scenes photos, you'll see someone else was in the suit. They CGd the bottom of his face onto the actor
@@user-ky9ou5dz9q To say “he never acted like Batman” is not totally true imo. While he was never intimidating physically, I think he had all the markings of what would have developed into the bat. He was shown to be extremely intelligent, a good fighter, brave, selfless. The biggest thing for me though was the way he spoke. He spoke exactly how I imagined Batman to speak. I agree the final episode should have used a different actor, but I think he did a magnificent job in earlier episodes…
@@avationmusic I could SEE him becoming the person who could be batman, but we missed that entire transition and showing what he's like as an adult. We never got to see that switch flipped.
It just switched to, hey that kid is batman now! See? He's in the suit! And to me that's not near enough.
Take Smallville for example. When he becomes superman, ignoring the suit shenanigans, you knew he was more than ready. Like it was long overdue and that he had already became the kinda man it takes to be superman before hand, just didn't have the suit.
Not the case at all here.
This show always had a weird ability to learn from it's mistakes quickly and adapt just enough to keep people interested. Like if you go back and watch season 1 it was originally an episodic "monster of the week" type format but they changed that to become the serial drama that it was until the end probably because the original didn't really work for the story they wanted to tell. Or like when they started bringing a bunch of characters back to life after killing them, or when they got a bit to much into the fanfic crap with penguin and riddler almost starting a romantic relationship. They recovered from all of these more or less and it ended up working just enough to get by.
I think part of the reason why it worked is because you could tell they did genuinely care to create a good product and did seem to listen to criticism so people appreciated it for what it was. It always kind of had that amateur ao3 fanfic feel and that's basically what it was but sometimes they can have a certain charm to them. The finale was more or less in line with that so I liked it for what it was even though the entire series could've been a lot better.
I still can't believe that Pengiun, the fucking Penguin, would be in Blackgate for TEN fucking YEARS. The execs were afraid of the shit he (and Nygma) would do if they spent the whole ten years outside.
That was a really stupid writing decision.
Yeah, there's no way Nygma wouldn't have broken out of Arkham at any point in those ten years.
Yeah the last episode SHOUD be cancelled
The main problem is how Gotham was forced to shorten. They had ideas for seasons 6 and 7, but were forced to end things with season 5. And season 5 was half as long as what their normal seasons were. However, FOX did allow them to do two extra episodes than what they were given. So if season 5 were two episodes shorter, it probably would’ve been more disastrous. If Gotham was given more time then I would have wanted “The Beginning…” to be split into two episodes. It just felt too rushed with what the finale did and they need more time.
The other thing is that the show was left with lots of unanswered questions. We never saw what happened to Bruce’s clone that the Court of Owls made after he ran away. And we never did see Barnes (the Executioner) after he escaped custody. And with Sofia Falcone in a coma, does that mean she’ll face Batman in the future? We don’t even know where Nyssa al Ghul went to after taking the submarine. And even though it’s not shown, Robin Lord Taylor said that the dog Edward lived the rest of his days with Penguin’s maid Olga, but they both had to deal with the mess Penguin left behind. But I just wonder how Edward got to Olga since he was on the submarine with Nyssa. And we never really did get to see the gangs battle in No Man’s Land like Mr. Freeze, Firefly, and Scarecrow. So we get to see what happened to them after. Man-Bat was even teased at the end of season 4, but we never saw him in No Man’s Land. And since Fish Mooney killed Sal Maroni, that means he won’t be the cause of Two Face’s creation. They decided to cut out Harvey Dent’s storyline.
I hate that the adult characters didnt age. They look the same before the finale
I noticed that as well.
@@anubusx same
Besides a *very* fake moustache 😂
@@princessadrigirl6774 😅 yeah..
Eh once you reach a certain age you don't change much until you reach another certain age
For the Catwoman recast they didn't have much choice. According to an article from The Wrap, Camren Bicondova decided not to return as Selina Kyle because of her discomfort playing an older version of the character.
Very good call on her end honestly.
The last episode was basically fan-service
While I do agree with the whole “changing actors” part, it was actually Cam’s idea to step back and pass the torch.
I honestly love the finale. It’s great for what the show was, a predecessor to the bat himself. I always saw Jim as the main character and Bruce as a secondary, but important character.
I love the Kevin convoy and co cameos at the end
Finally! A new video that isn't immediately spammed with "1st comment." It's a new day folks, and batman? Chef's kiss
Also, just adapt the arkhamverse to live action, because arkham knight batsuit is metal as F.
1st comment
1st comment. What a strange nit pick
1st comment
See? Now This is why your mothers sent you guys to live with the weird uncle you've never heard of before and never came back. Also, let her know, checks in the mail.
FUCKKKK THEY ARE BACK
To call it the worst finale ever is a overstatement because that final scene is masterful besides the cheap looking suit which is understandable he just started out. And also the scene with Joker and Batman in the ace chemicals plant or wherever it is (idk I haven’t watched the show in a while) is a brilliant
I loved Gotham when it first started. But I have to admit, I was never able to finish it. I'm not even sure if it was season 4 or 5 that I fell off the boat. I have tried to pick it up again a few times but just couldn't do it. Apparently I didn't miss out on much...except 10 years 🤷♀️
Same, I watched the first three seasons and then just skipped to the last episode.
Yh I see your point. After season 3 they started take inspiration from recent comics such as long haul halloween and death of the family storyline.
Personally I thought season 3 was mediocre and 4 was an improvement but season 5 is easily the worst with how rushed it is
@@plugshirt1684 let just say they never planned after season 3. Since fox only ordered 12 episodes at time, I understand why it was so rushed. If they had chance to do 22 episodes, just maybe finale would be stretched out further
I stopped at the end of season 4, I was actually only watching it for Jerome so after he died i was done.
Wish we got a 2 hour finale...
I just assumed they had to rush it because they thought they were gonna have more seasons despite having at least one hugely underwhelming season. I wasn't disappointed at the older Selina. At least her look. She didn't have enough of that mischievous attitude that Carmen displayed
Oh and I hated what they did with J
Ya there were supposed to be 7 seasons
Well the show had been in danger of cancellation quite often so I doubt they expected to do a lot of seasons
@@xjom91 I'm just going by the sudden jump
For some reason, the moment I keep coming back to is when the Riddler and Penguin are walking down the street and then suddenly stop and look up at the sky to see Batman flying overhead.
Which sounds cool on paper, except it's just silly on screen. They halt in their tracks and happen to look a thousand feet up... before Batman even comes into view. It's just a very sloppy few seconds of film.
Yeah it was pure cringe
I totally get your point. They terrorised gotham for like almost a decade, king of the underworld, and they are so scared for a weird bat like man who tied them up and appeared for just one day?! That totally does not make sense!
I remember binge watching this entire series and having a huge crush on Cameron bicondova and I absolutely love the show and watching the finale episode made me feel depressed because it’s over and I loved this show and it disappoints me that this happened.
I think she fit as well lad ending was shit but shame they didn’t do more
@Ransford Flentjar I’m younger then her pretty much anyone who’s younger then her had a crush on her.
@@spider-manunknown9193 I'm older than her (by two months I just looked it up) And I had a crush on her back then too. I was so disappointed when she and Bruce didn't get together in the end, but I understand that it goes against their characters. I just felt they really earned it.
@@VoidHeart56 yeah same. Selina last scene in the show was so un satisfying that it made me depressed like wtf I wanted them to be together and the last scene of the two of them is just depressing.
@@spider-manunknown9193 They have that scene in the second to last episode where Selina says "I will be here whenever you need me" and then rests her head on him before they cut away, and then they just have him leave. At least have a scene where he says goodbye ya know?
Personally, I was quite fond of the ending.
Although the entire final season to be just felt rushed. Like, we went from "building go boom" to "GOTHAM IS NOW A WARZONE FOR 6 MONTHS" or something.
Completely agree with nearly your points, Vee! As a fellow watcher of "Gotham" from day one, I really feel the finale was a mixed bag, but, for me, the good mostly outweighs the bad. IMO, the premise of this episode should have been applied to the entire season, rather than just the final episode. This way, the time jump would be right at the front end of the season and you'd have some time to adjust to the new normal. Just my feeling on it!
I like how in the show there was this saying; 'Gotham has no heroes' and Batman shows up and he IS the hero, people say Batman is not a hero but a vigilante, but I think of Batman as a hero
The Gotham finale was just as bad as the smallville finale and they did the same wrong move
I think mistake was not allowing 1hr 30 mins finale
I was expecting that so I wasn't surprised or disappointed.
Where the shows themselves were awesome up until the last episode BUT the Smallville finale imo is a great episode probably one of my favorites actually Tom didn't want to wear the suit and that's fine it woulda been awesome if he did but as a episode I really liked it
Gotham's finale was perfect.
It was never supposed to be a show about Batman.
Gotham was the central focus not Batman.
So to have the finale be end with the only scene with Batman in it was the absolute best ending.
With J knowing is that even in the show and I think he said it himself, Jeremiah sensed this “darkness” in Bruce that always intrigued him so I guess J “remembered that.” Also, I don’t think J would revealed Batman’s secret identity since it would ruin the fun
I definitely agree with this penguin being his on version and having him wear the og costume was weird. Especially since I think charecters look better as actual humans rather than a colorful costume
“That man is gonna die in the chair!” 😂😂😂 so true
Batman wearing his Halloween costume from Party City
My sister doesn't treat this finale as Canon. They really shouldn't have shown Batman...They could have shown him from a distance tho.
They really couldn't since show is about gotham before batman.
Okay? Let's live in make believe land where we choose what's real and not
They showed him for one frame it’s fine, that’s why the teased it so heavily and didn’t show him fully till the end.
@@envi2273 people do that everyday its not that big of a stretch
@@Isaac-ig9ot That's a child's way of treating something, you don't like it so you remove it from your "head cannon"
Truth be told, it was almost bittersweet in a way seeing Batman in the end of the show. I may mock it for its predictability, lack of clear identity, and the fact that it was clearly making itself up as it went along, but I'm going to miss it.
Vee, Tom Welling's Clark has been drawn into the suit in the "Smallville" season 11 comics. I could honestly understand Selina knowing Bruce is Batman.
This episode was a prequel to the 60s show. It just made me feel like I was watching a more matured episode of the 60s
I definitely agree with how they treated Batman himself. Absolutely loved the fact that he was hidden in the shadows the whole time until the final shot. Probably my favorite part of the episode. Don't really care for "J" though. If falling into the acid broke Jeremiah even more and gave him some of the aspects of Jerome it would have been better, but it's still just a janky looking version of Jeremiah.
I just watched episode 11 assuming it was the finale and was totally satisfied. The actual finale is completely superfluous.
Instead of doing some batman origin bullshit, they could've just left us on a cliffhanger where bruce looks at the batsuit in the batcave with alfred saying some corny line like "It's time", I didn't like how they tried to squeeze in as much batman as they could.
Gotham was a show that deteriorated after the first couple of seasons. I would say when they killed Jerome was the shark jumping moment. But it was Ras Al Ghul that really killed it. His intro to a young Bruce Wayne made no sense for their relationship.
I wish it would have been a 2 hour finale like we would have seen more of Bruce like his return to Gotham reuniting with Alfred and Lucius and then see him in his proto batsuit once again and would learn that he needs to make his enemies fear him that's when the iconic Bat scene shows up by the window to give him the answer.
The riddler and penguin look like they’re from a fan film
I love Gotham, I think season 5 was pretty bad but I think the final actually saved the season for me tbh
We are closing in on 6-7 years since the last S4 episode. This means it is now believable for time span on actors, and actresses.
Perhaps if they remade these episodes with actors now, the released... it might explain, forgive, the episodes they had released prior.
I feel like this show had more story to tell, however, since Season 5 was a very last minute renewal decision and they gave them only a handful of episodes to finish this story, in my opinion they did better than I thought they would have
10:23 Cameron Monaghan was the shows saving grace. Fuck DC he will always be the joker to me.
I believe the actress that played Selina didn't want to do it in the finale because she thought she couldn't pull off an older Selina
I think Oswald 10 years into the future look was perfect. CB
Positive note about this episode, it reminded me that Vee had hair on his head at one point.
11:14 they made him look like an unfinished jigsaw puppet...
I mean tbh the new cat woman actress does look basically identical to a older version of Selena
He goes "they look nothing alike" and he shows a side by side where they look EXACTLY THE SAME 😂
@@Selfinflictedhummusrocket IKR!!
It was like 'spending time (days, weeks, months) regularly visiting a loved one in the hospital, but then not going to the funeral'---the loved one's life was okay and they were fun to be with, but it's just ... you don't get to be happy that they've passed on (which is why you go to funerals ... to celebrate the end of their suffering).
But you're right about 'how Batman should've been more "a looming presence" than "an actual guy we know inside & out."' Sure, you could say that's what GOTHAM -was- for all the seasons ... but only for they who didn't know that Bruce Wayne was destined to be Batman.
Maybe they should've done more movies that way ... possibly developing Bruce into more of 'an elderly gentleman who couldn't be doing all that Batman-stuff, until it's revealed that it was him all along.'
There's no way this finale is bad,
Nothing can beat the Eldritch abomination that is season 8 of Game of Thrones.
I love this show, One of my favorite shows of all time. I think Jeremiah knew it was Bruce because Ra's Al Ghul must have told him when they first met after Jeremiah's plan to destroy the city and turn it into a maze failed. There were a lot of implications that he knew Bruce's Destiny. 1. When Jeremiah asked to see Bruce in the GCPD interrogation room he said "My eyes are open as will yours be" 2. In the last episode of the series when Gordon goes to ACE chemicals to save his daughter Jeremiah says, "We are bound together he and I, it's one thing I knew for certain, the one thing I knew was true." There is no other way he could have known this, since Ra's Al Ghul kind of loved telling the future.
I recently watched the show and I enjoyed the final episode. There were a few things I didn't like how they mention it's been 10 years a million times and how Catwoman was recast, and they make Jim Gordon shave mid episode. But overall I enjoyed what they did and how they portrayed Batman even if the mask was a bit iffy. I'd give the last episode a 7/10. Not the worst definitely not the best but pretty good.
Really miss this show doing a marathon just started the second season now on the third season
Gotham finale was the worst? If by "finale" then you mean the final three seasons, then that's exactly right. First two seasons or so were great. Far far better than I expected. Then it just became really stupid and awful
The problem with Gotham is that it developed it's own take on the Batman universe so that it *isn't* a prequel to something like Arkham or the comics, but rather a very long origin story to a Batman franchise that we're never going to see. Thus when you're finishing it all off you're actually setting up something that would have probably been its own unique take, and there's enough different that I would have been interested in watching them do an actual honest-to-god Batman story without having to deal with WB's ridiculous legal bullshit.
agree. agree.. i really wanted to see the next chapter.. and batman continue after gotham.
The Jokers plan is like the coma prank from Dumb and Dumber.
lol.
I never thought of that until you mentioned it.
i hate what they did with the penguin and the riddler, they almost gave me nightmares at the beginning of their descent to evil and to see them so pathetic and fragile at the end made mad
gotham is easily my favorite dc show. I have rewatched it about 3 times now. I strongly agree with your points about the finale. I feel like the whole 10 year gap is truly what dragged it down. You are really gonna tell me the riddler stayed in Arkham for 10 years without breaking out once? That makes him look pretty dumb. Also joker pretending to be braindead for 10 years? Come on I know he's insane but that is just lazy writing lol
It was an unpredictable show with a very predictable ending. The ending made sense, but it wasn’t fully satisfying nor did it truly earn what we got.
Also the whole final season 5 was a rehash of the Dark Knight Rises, only Bruce wasn’t Batman and was a kid.
Everybody in this comment section is sleeping on the best joke in this video: calling Mr. Freeze "Chilli Fries"
Joker needs to call Freeze that some point in the future
This version of joker is in my opinion, my favorite version so far. He was white from the acid and scarred. Crazy and had the laugh down too
i like the over the top-ness of the finale. i think it's definitely very camp and out there, but that's how it is in the comics- and i think that by having everything come together in just one episode of the show and having so many thorough storylines that converge is reminiscent of the way in the movies or episodes of various Batman shows, in which there are usually more than 3 storylines to follow, so i think they were doing that with the same comic book style as i mentioned earlier in mind.
Cameos are dope vee💯
Here’s my thing. According to the creators, Bruce Wayne is about 17 before the time jump. The way I see it, they intentionally aged him up initially (his parents died at 11 rather than 8) to provide him some agency in the comics, so why could they not have had him dawn the cape and cowl at 17? Sure, he might be a bit scrawny, but I think it would be easier to look past than the recast they did; ultimately, he could have pulled it off. It would be interesting to see if they could somehow make a movie set in the universe of this show.
I like the penguin in this show also the riddler
really made the series stand out
12:26 officially with the Mr Freeze reference.
You got a sub.
5 out of 5 🦇🦇🦇🦇🦇
Loved the show my favorite part was joker killing echo
The ending though....dude....THANK YOU!!!
I just didn't like Barbara Gordon's arc. Took me out of the show. I liked the parts that had other characters in them. Gotham was a 7.5/10 for me. Better than FLASH season 4 to whatever the hell they're doing with lightsabres.
Yh I say about same. I just didnt like how they killed off Jerome valeksa and replaced him with twin brother. They might as well made Jerome the joker
Gotham is really weird in the way that it has some terrible things about it and then some other parts are near perfect so it creates a really conflicting show
The writers literally had multiple ideas of what they wanted to do with Barbara. They were originally going to have her become Harley Quinn. Then they considered to have her become Magpie hence why she had her hairstyle in season 4, but then they scrapped that too and introduced the real Magpie in one episode in season 5. I’m glad that Barbara didn’t become either of those two characters, but I agree her character arc is crazy. I think they decided to give her some of the character aspects of her son from the comics (Jim Jr.).
but one thing is 100% sure, the actors fit the role perfectly. Actors from gotham should be the same in every movie, there is no series / movie where the actors fit better.
-The RIddler (Cory Michael Smith ABSOLUTELY STOLE MY HEART AS A RIDDLER)
-Penguin
-Alfred
-Selina Kyle
-Bruce wayne (Batman), David Mazouz should be more manly for the role of batman, that's my only objection
The Best part in the Last episode was when Penguin shouted, "Noooowwwww."
Blame fox they were shutting down Gotham forcing the writers to have to wrap everything up so fast. I respect them going all out and giving us Batman at the end
Well, at least this finale is still better than the entirety of Batwoman.
😂so true 🙃
That's not saying much
To be fair, that bar's so low Trigon's using it for a limbo competition right now.
i think the problem is it was supposed to be a decade-long show in the same vein as smallville
the first joker Cameron Monaghan played is for sure the 2nd best joker right behind heath ledger
agree. that was really fun. and the cut face.. LOve it.
12:28 calling Mr. Freeze chilli fries made me laugh way too much 😂
The layers on that name is hilarious either intentional or not its a great one liner
Honestly if the finale was split into 2 parts with an hour duration for each episode everything would have felt way more cohesive and it would not have felt rushed