How to Install: S&S Cycle Cam Chest Kit on '17+ M8 HD® models
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2020
- In this video, we take you through how easy it is to install our cam chest kits on '17+ HD® Softail® and touring models.
For more product info visit:
www.sscycle.com/feature/valve... - Авто та транспорт
Great video, I feel like it’s very rewarding to install this kit on your own to take your time and follow your instructions best feeling in the world going to do it to my 03 RK
You guys are gonna save people alot of money. Thank you.
If Harley did what they are suppose to do they would not be where they are today!!
Here is a Tech Tip for adjusting the pushrods. Leave your cam cover off while installing and adjusting your pushrods. With the timing marks lined up on the cam and pinion sprockets, you are at TDC on the rear cylinder. You can now adjust your pushrods for the rear cylinder. After waiting for the lifters to bleed down, turn the crankshaft one full revolution until the timing mark on the pinion sprocket is straight up again and the timing mark on the cam sprocket is straight up at 12:00 o'clock. You are now at TDC on the front cylinder and can adjust your front pushrods.
It drives me crazy that these professionals making videos don't pass this tip along to you guys who are doing this for the first time.
Fuel Moto video showing you just what I am talking about at 2:20 mark.
ua-cam.com/video/y-VV0mK1-5I/v-deo.html
Thank you for sharing this--extremely helpful
Thank you!
Thank you for the tip!
Just what I needed , great f@@ken tip
Unless you know what you're doing and can identify tappets on a base circle... if you can't, maybe it's not a job for you.
Wow. Every detail I couldn’t find in all the other videos , you guys nailed them all 100% !!
Not really he said the cam bearing looked good.
You should always replace the cam bearing with a new cam...
Nice job, thanks for the step by step, made it easy to follow 👍👍
Glad it helped!
Thank you for answering my question about the cam that you guys installed in the Milwaukee 8 motor I've been watching your videos pretty interesting I didn't catch the duration and lift when I watch the video but you guys replied back to me about the cam I really appreciate that thanks for the great videos we'll be watching you guys again this is Big Dave from Chicago land area actually Hammond Indiana take care of guys have a good day
Great video, not fast and every detail covered. Thank you
Glad it was helpful!
Nice work as always Jon. Very informative. *golf clap*
I just put this oil pump in my 2021 Road Glide Limited. The one for water cooled. This was the only method that worked for me. Putting each component in at a time. That first piece is most important. If you don’t feel the oil port slide in. That pump won’t sit flush with the cam plate mounting portions.
Just ordered S&S pump, camplate kit, precision lifters and cuff kit, after a major engine failure on my 2020 Breakout M8 at 6150km,s due to a screaming eagle lifter failure took out everything,including the crank. $9200 in parts, luckily 2 months inside warranty expiry. Interested to note, this is the third install tech video I have watched before foing the conversion, and you and another tech vid both advise push rod adjustment, after adjusting to 0 lash position of 4 complete turns. 1 of the tech videos states 2 complete turns after 0 lash position. I will be following the S&S tech video. Cheers for the clear instructions.
I love S&S, as the push rod adjustment they are confused!! all their push rods are 32 tpi this means to compress the lifter 0.100 thousands you need to turn the push rod 3TURNS +2FLATS to get .100 thou 4 turns gives 0.125 all lifters need to be collapsed 0.100 THOU after 0 LASH .EXCEPT solid lifters wich are used in rare racing applications ,I called S&S tech today and they said 4 turns is old instructions and 3 turns + 2flats IS CORRECT.!!!!!! ,4 Turns is not allowing the lifter to function as it was designed to HARLEY FUELING ETC ALL NEED 0.100
Thanks for the video.
I would recommend pumping up the lifters with a simple oil can pump. Soaking them doesn't really pump them up as desired.
Little O
Awesome presentation, easy to follow along, great explanations...thank you! Sub'd.
Thank you S&S
As someone who has never done actual engine work, the thing that I learned from this video is when doing engine work, have a shit ton of assembly lube on hand lol
😆 that is a good lesson to learn! Glad you learned it here and not in the shop.
Hey S&SCycle ,you forgot to mention cam size you were installing....... Love the sound Thank You Great Job
This bike got our Chain Drive 475 cam.
@@SSCycleInc your instructions for a new m8 says 4 turn on push rods for adjustment, some video say 3.5 turn please confirm, I’m doing your kit 475c on a 2021 m8 thanks
Have a 2017 FLHXS 107 installing 475c oil cooled cam chest kit. My question is the stock oil pump has no seal, do I buy one for the 19+ bikes or install without?
Great video !
Thank you!
You guys at S&S fucking rock! I'm so proud to have T111 in my 14 ultra!
Thank you! Glad you're loving the T111!
Curious if using ass'y lube on the ball ends of the pushrods while installing is a good idea? Or is engine oil enough? Great video, thanks very much.
Is there a difference in the oil pump / cam plate with the gear cam kit then the chain cam kit?
As always great video. Can you tell me the brand and part # of that metal sprocket locker? I have the JIMS 994 delrin one but I’ve been searching for a metal one and can’t seem to pinpoint the correct one for an M8. Thank you.
I've been told by a HD tech friend of mine that the TC sprocket locker fits the M8. I have not tried it though. If it does, let me know please.
Why didn't you install the S&S cam chain tensioner? Great video.
please do a video of the 124/128 big bore install
Thank you for the video! Just subbed. I will be installing this setup next month. Is that mini teardrop air cleaner 'hi-flow' enough for the 475 cam? I want it, but I'm worried it is too restrictive for say 110hp.
It flows excellent!
@@SSCycleInc Per some calculations, I believe the 114 with the 55mm throttle body wants 285cfm of flow. What cfm is the tear drop rated at?
@@TheHighestGodisGood Almost double your calculation.
@@SSCycleInc I see that K&N says their cfm rating can be found by taking the surface area times 6.03. So, a 2" tall x 6" diameter filter would have:
2" x 6pi x 6.03 = 227.3 cfm. That's why I was worried. And then you have the cover over it, further restricting it (imo). I guess I don't know how a covered filter that small can flow around 570cfm. Is there any website or video that you can point me to, to verify that, or to correct my math on? I'm an engineer and so when the math doesn't add up, I get skeptical. I really want the S&S teardrop (love the look and love that it would go with my S&S 475C cam chest kit I'm getting), so that's why I'm asking. For example, as a gut check to my math, K&N claims their extreme round air filter flows 350cfm, when left uncovered. To me, that makes sense with the math saying a regular round K&N flows about 230cfm. Maybe you are using a different, superior filter and not K&N and that where the difference is? Anyways, I appreciate any help!
@@TheHighestGodisGood Can't really speak to K&N number nor verify their claims. We use a Superflow bench to test all of our air cleaners and we can share that there is only a 10 CFM difference between the mini and an open Stealth air cleaner. The mini cover allows for substantial air flow through the sides and back and flows far more than most engines will use
Easy to miss in this video. Make sure you have the tappets on the base circle before adjusting pushrods. Get the rear on the base circle. Install pushrods. Rotate motor until you are on the base circle for the fronts. Then install the pushrods. The twin cam SS video for this procedure explains how to get it to the base circle pretty well. Also, if you have the cam cover off, use the technique DON has described below. That's the way I'll do it next time.
Little O
On a scale of 1 to 10 how hard was the job to do ? Watching the video it looks fairly easy
A 3. Just take your time.
You forgot to mention the orientation of the lifter oil holes upon installing!! Crucial!
I love the round of that cam… jo others really have that
Hi Jason,
fyi…the twin cam sprocket locking tool for 07-up will work with the m8. The tool for 99-06 tc-88s will not work with the m8. Different type of chain/sprocket on the earlier tc motors. At least that’s my understanding on the subject. I have an 06 softail, and a 19 rg. The tools are not the same.
Just a question: @15:55 the bigger tooth is not facing up, but @16:25 it is. What did you do to get it facing straight up at 12 o'clock position?
Hey Ed, there shouldn't be any pressure on your cam at this point, so you can simply turn it to the upright position and proceed with your install.
Great video! Putting my tappets/pushrods in today. Just one question. At 22:45, is the feeler gauge on the correct side of the tappet?
I thought the same thing.
Nope, it should've been on the opposite side of that tappet(exhaust), or on the bolt side of the inner(intake) tappet. This way, he almost made sure that the tappet will touch the cuff as soon as he torques it to spec and it rotates a hair. But of course he's the pro, and I could be wrong! LOL
What's your recommendation for when I take it on a test ride and accelerate, all four upper pushrod tube o-rings blow and oil leaks everywhere? I'll be replacing them for the third time now and still trying to figure out what the hell is going on.
We recommend reaching out to our tech team directly on this one. They will be able to walk through the potential problems and get it sorted out for you. Drop them an email at SSTech@sscycle.com or give them a call at +1 608-627-1958.
I have a question about the lifters
I watched 2 different videos and one says install lifters with the oil holes facing each other
And another says install them with both oil holes facing out and on here no mention and the harley service manual There is no difference where the oil holes are
I'm assuming it doesn't make a difference where the oil hole is as long as the tappet covers fit on and torque with feeler gauge on
HOLA AMIGOS BUENAS TARDES. ME GUSTAN SUS VIDEOS, QUE CAM ME RECOMIENDAN PARA UNA BREAKOUT 2020 ?
S&S 475 still the best Cam for low to mid torque for my 2018 Road King Special? And which full header true dual exhaust partners best with that cam and makes the best sound? Vance & Hines, Rinehart, Bassani, or D&D?
465 Would be the move for low to mid RPM torque. www.sscycle.com/tech-info/cam-specs-overview We'd recommend the S&S Sidewinder 2:1 www.sscycle.com/products/sidewinder-2-1-for-m8-touring-modelsblack/
Was just wondering if after you replaced the cam, did you have to put it on a dyno? Im still new with this' and was wondering.
Hi s&s team! When we will get to see 836 bore kit installation for RE continental GT 650?
Working on one now, should release later in the summer
What is the part number for the cam shaft gear and pinion gear you’re using to hold it in place from moving. Thanks gladly appreciate it🤙
For this set up, we used the entire cam chest upgrade kit, which is part number 310-1012B.
The 475c cam, which is a chain drive cam, on its own is part number: 330-0641
If you are going gear driven on your set up you will want the Pinion Gear part number: 330-0622
So, Do I need the "optional" oil pump gasket for my S&S pump # 310-0959A. Getting ready to tear it down, and wanna make sure I have everything necessary for re-assembly
If your bike is currently using it, we definitely recommend you reinstall it (the existing seal can be reused with S&S pump)
No gasket on stock oil pump, so I won't be installing one with my S&S pump. Thanks for the reply.
Quick question, I'm new to the M8 and basically fuel injected bikes, my last bike was carburetored. If I install a new cam, do I need to have the ecu reprogrammed or will it self learn the new parameters?
When changing the cam you do have to have the bike retuned.
I have a question hopefully someone can help...i have 2018 M8 107 stage 1 with V&H tuner. So after doing tge stage 2 from S&S with cam chest and rods do i have to reset my V&H tune to stock then buy the S&S tuner?
And another thing. Is there a way to tune the bike after doing s&s upgrade without buying new tuner? Perhaps save $500?
Hey Samir, we don't offer a tuner but you absolutely need to have your bike tuned after upgrading your cam.
Hillo po bro..its amazing bro
Can you please tell me which o-ring goes in the scavenger Port the thicker one or the thinner one.
Thanks for your help.
How do you know the cylinder is at top dead center.
I noticed you guys didn’t replace the cam bearing? Is it totally okay to keep the stock bearing? Thank you for this awesome video!
What happens if the inner g rotor is put in backwards?
Thank you ;)
How were you rotating the engine over since the cam cover was already on?
Do you have to check the runout first to make sure it is below 0.005 ?
What are the effects of installing the s&s oil pump and cam plate if the runout is greater than this? How does the effect differ with the stock components?
(Chain drive)
If you are swapping over to a Gear Drive cam, you definitely need to check the runout, if you are sticking with the chain drive it is not necessary.
@@SSCycleInc Had two questions, this was the big one, the other was what is the criteria for deciding between chain or gear drive?
Hey @@jjones6173, honestly the runout is going to be your biggest criteria. If your runout is not within tolerance you either don't have the choice to run the gear drive, or you have to take your bottom end apart, have it reworked by someone like Darkhorse, and then reassemble to run the gear cams. Or of course you can just run the chain cams. When it comes to decision making, other criteria (assuming you are withing spec) is if you would rather have a slightly louder cam (more engine noise) that transfers power slightly more quickly, or if you would rather have a slightly more quiet cam that requires checking at regular maintenance intervals.
@@SSCycleInc I very much appreciate the explanation
I have a 18 RGS, dis not have the large gasket for the oil pump. So I need to add it?
You '18 was made before the gasket was added to the original equipment. It's not a bad idea to go to your local dealer and pick one up when upgrading your oil pump to ours.
When is someone going to come out with a kit for the twin cam 88 that eliminates the inner chain with a gear but still keeps the outer chain to absorb crank run-out?
@J T J I already tried contacting S&S, Edelbrock, Woods, Black Widow, and a few others. I couldn't get anyone to make it.
I guess they prefer to make cams that only halfway fix the problem.
You're stuck choosing between total gear cams that can't tolerate runout or having 2 chains so one cam shoe is trapped behind the cam plate.
Do you sell this exact setup, in a complete kit, 2020 Street glide 107?
Absolutely. www.sscycle.com/feature/valve-train/cam-chest-kits-for-m8
Great video. I’m confused on one part some videos says 20 flats and yours says 24. I’m installing ss cam plate and oil pump I’m not doing new lifter I’m on a budget. Any thoughts
The correct adjustment for our Quickiee Pushrods is 24 flats or 4 full rotations.
Thank you that was fast great job and great product
@@capecodbiker9902 Happy to help man!
Just wondering why didn't you use s&s chain tensioner?
After the install do I need to do an oil change? If so, after how long? If not then I assume it will stay on my maintenance cycle
It is always a good idea to change the oil out and start off the lifespan of your new cam chest with fresh oil.
Can just the oil pump and cam plate be installed without removing the cam?
Yea. But why would you not replace the cam it’s just a couple hundred dollars more and you get a much better cam… more torque and better sound
That doesn't look like a Road King on the rack? Regardless, I won't attempt this on my own, but I would definitely like it done to my'19 King! Great Video!!
The FXR Style fairing from RWD throws off the traditional Road King look for sure! This job isn't for everyone, we'd be happy to recommend a shop in your area if you'd like?
Does the larger gasket come in the kit for the back of the oil pump? Reference at 3:01 of the video
That gasket is not included in the kit, as it is an HD proprietary piece. Your local HD dealer can get you set up with one for a few bucks.
Is there any sort of tuning after this kit? Power vision?
In order to get the most performance out of your new cam, you will want to retune.
What was the tool he used to install the bolts for the tappet blocks? Looked as if it swiveled.
At 24:04? That is a t-handle allen wrench with a ball-head, it allows you to install the bolts with the wrench at an angle without deforming the bolt head, very handy to keep a set around the shop!
Thank you!
Yeah I see the guy put the cam in but he didn't say what duration and what lift it is is it a hotter cam than the stock one and how many psi's does the oil pump put out is it more PSI than the stock Harley
This is our 475 cam, which is intended as a bolt-in HP cam and pushes the M8s to over 100HP without headwork. As for our oil pump, they offer a 20% flow increase on supply side and 52% flow increase on scavenge.
Is installing that seal behind the oil pump necessary? I put it together and realized i did not put one as the kit did not come with one. 2020 Softail, it seems to be running great.
Your 2020 should have had an o-ring on the pump you pulled out. We do recommend running the o-ring to prevent any potential sealing problems.
@@SSCycleInc can it be reused or need to purchase new one?
It’s always safer to purchase a new one. Your local HD dealer should have, or be able to order you one.
@@MrTheDays1 i reused mine, tho the bike had less than 1000 miles on it
Could someone tell me what kind of oil it could be for the tappets?
We recommend soaking the tappets in the same oil that you will be running in your engine.
I was wondering, do you need assembly lube for this project? Just kidding. Great video.
Very good
Now I just need to find a mechanic that will follow all those steps
All we need to see is the dyno results!
How is the crank being turned?
We've found the best method to be getting the rear tire off the lift and spinning it by hand. Our friends over at J&P have a great breakdown on it.
I noticed you didn't check pinion shaft runout. Do you not suggest checking runout? If so just pinion shaft or counter shaft side too to get total runout?
With a chain cam, it is not necessary to check the runout. With a gear cam, it is necessary to check for runout. You would base the runout tool off of the pinion shaft.
@@SSCycleInc From the S&S instructions for installing the cam support plate: S&S recommends no more than 0.005” of total indicated runout on the pinion shaft while checked in the cases.
@@SSCycleInc I was under the impression you had to check for runout for the oil pump and camplate because this stuff is made out of 7075 Aluninium billet which does not compress and wears and cracks if the run-out on the pinion shaft is too much.
@@FranBunnyFFXII Not sure what you're asking here. Runout spec we share is specific to the gear drive cams. The gears require a tight mesh and crank runout could cause interference. The material used for pump and plate would not be relevant to the runout spec.
@@SSCycleInc Moonshine Harley makes a big deal about checking the runout saying you will damage the cam plate in their UA-cam video. They go as far as to say if it's over 5 thousandths, you can't install the cam chest kit, but they never mention that only applies to the gear drive kit, but that makes sense to me.
I really want to do this install myself so is it safe to say if I go with the chain drive kit I don't need to worry about buying a runout checking tool at all?
Very complete Vid. I am installing an S&S kit that I got for Christmas. Vid was a bit out of focus at times.
Remember to clean all the threads in the engine block with brake-cleaner to get rid of possible oil, otherwise the thread-locker will not work optimally,..AND be aware of the small tappet-cuff 1/4 screws,..they EASILY break if you don’t take your time and strongly recommendable use a heatgun ☝🏻
Didn’t show the install of the chain tensioner and torque or ensuring that the sprocket are flushed leveled or how to address it if it’s not . Also, how to get the the bottom of the lobe of the cam. This is the only thing that was missing from this video. What was explained was nicely detailed.imo
Hmmmm, chain tensioner install?
What's a range of cost for a mechanic to install this kit?
Prices can vary from city to city and state to state, that is a question best suited for your local S&S Dealer. You you do not currently have one, you can find your nearest dealer here:
www.sscycle.com/dealer-center/dealer-locator
@@SSCycleInc what would your company charge?
@@BlownC52000 We manufacture and sell the parts, but do not have a public shop.
What do you unplug or do to build oil pressure before first fire
Hold throttle wide open when cranking over engine usually works for me. It won't start wide open..
@@joshv1440 alrighty perfect just like new pickups. I was told They do it for people in flood areas so you can push water out of cylinders before firing
The only thing is that om not able to rotate my pushrods... Seems that im to stupid to do this
Liked
What is the benefit of this kit?
Substantially improved oil flow, improved cooling, cam change increases both horsepower and torque across the RPM range.
@@SSCycleInc Thanks for replying. Another 2 questions please: What is the advantage to gear driven vs chain driven and is there any issue with putting this cam chest kit and cam on a Ultra Classic with 25K miles, as I want longevity for the motor.
@@Old-n-slo-locked-n-leaned Gear drive cam allows for elimination of the wearable chain tensioner as well as more accurate cam timing. Crank run out is the only challenge for gear drive cams, as the gear is designed for a very tight tolerance and any run out on the crankshaft would cause interference. We would recommend the 465 or 476 cam on the M8 Ultra depending on the type of riding you are doing. 465 is more focused on torque and power down low in the RPM range and 475 will produce 100Hp, but does it much higher in the RPM range.
Sorry, I meant that comment for John with S&S
You skip the cam chain tensioner through me off on my step
your in there , replace inner cam bearing , get rid of stock junk bearing
Stock inner bearings were fine on this one. Bike is relatively low miles.
@@SSCycleInc Does S&S replacement bearing have cages for rollers? The upgraded bearing has more rollers for better response. You're in there, change it- you have a new one at your elbow.
Replace. Twice as many rollers! I purchased the bearing puller. No brainer.
@@SSCycleIncHD stock cam bearing is an inferior product. With all do respect no competent engine builder would install a new cam in a bearing that has some use on it regardless how little hours are on the engine. Especially the stock HD bearing.
I would always change the cam bearing, the HD one is garbage and is prone to failure.
Not a bad plan at all!
He didn't say nothing about how to install a cam tensioner or look at it to see if there was where on the pad does s&s supply them too with a more better one than the Harley-Davidson
Our chain drive kits come with our upgraded tensioners.
Get rid of the junk stock inner stock bearing. Go with s&s.....
.
Buy a new Harley then upgrade everything.
Stock is boring!
HD= half done!