@@hilaryanderton One famous example but I think the poster is making the point that they are many, we shouldn't just be focussed on the headline cases (sorry if i've got that wrong, 9401...)
My eldest sister is a nurse. She is a narcissist. She has other issues asa child predator. She sexually abused me as a child when i was only 4. She has spent the rest of her life making me and my other sister as "hopeless, useless and never as good as her". My parents fell for it hook, line and sinker. This is what narcissists do. However i have contacted tge Police in Scotland and now waiting on confirmation of her arrest. Not exactly justice. I've met schoolteachers who are also driven by a belief that they are superior too. Sick people. Sick, sick people who are not afraid to destroy others to get what they want.
Yes Narcs try and kill you any way they can. If not physically them emotionally and mentally. I too have met many many schoolteachers with God-complexes. They arent nice to be around and very judgemental.
A clever serial killer finds a way to commit the crime and get away with it. Cameras would just stop the crime from happening in front of the camera. As soon as they suspected a crime they should have installed surveillance.
The sadism was against the parents. The death of babies motivated by jealousy and sadism. Payoff was hurting parents and sense of power over both victims and families.
Sadists do it for fun. A sense of deep delight. And then secondary elation from getting away with it. Running everyone ragged. Similar to Peter Sutcliffe.
@@JohnCollins that actually describes her perfectly. The double thrill of playing God, the power and control of causing suffering to both babies and parents, and feeling superior and clever because she's the only one who knows what's happening and everyone else is too "stupid" to figure it out.
.. so why was this woman always referred to as a 'nurse' during the trial by media reporting, when her actions have contradicted the very definition of what nursing entails ie. providing care and comfort driven by the motive of empathy and altruism. When someone knowingly and deliberately causes anguish and suffering repeatedly it is because they are acting entirely selfishly to enjoy a warped and deviant psychological payoff that normal people would find abhorrent and incomprehensible. The ultimate justice in a case such as this is a 'life for a life' - she has been found guilty of committing multiple murders and true justice demands the death penalty - no less. A society that tolerates murder without consequence is a sick society and mentally depraved. True justice has not been served by the sentence of life imprisonment.
@@Chris_Sheridan Because "Previous nurse" is quite a mouthful. Her position as a nurse is highly relevant because of the unquestioned access she had to vulnerable people. It's relevant to the method of her murders and highlights the need for better safeguards. Does no good to deny she was a nurse.
This theory doesn't make sense though because she purposefully attacked some of the babies at the end of her shift, so they deteriorated when she wasn't there... she wasn't involved in all the resuscitations. Personally, I think she got a kick out of destroying people's joy, essentially controlling their emotions. She would purposefully attack the babies on important dates such as their original due date or the date they were meant to go home. She also attacked certain babies multiple times within hours of each attack, she was intent on murdering them, it wasn't a focus on the resuscitation IMO.
Wow. I had no idea she attacked on specific dates - definitely hate driven. The fact that she attacked twins and even rarer triplets is also hugely telling. The naturally conceived identical triplets were highly rare and special and she wanted to destroy that
This x1000 She wanted to kill, and she killed because she thoroughly enjoyed the suffering she caused especially to the parents. And she killed the babies in physically painful ways and enjoyed that too.
@@awaisr912Yes, there's quite a few disturbing details once you get into it. I'm actually uploading a video about her case tomorrow if you're interested. Completely agree, the fact that she targeted twins and triplets is another reason why I'm not convinced of this guy's opinion. She knew exactly what she was doing. She murdered 2 of the triplets within hours of each other and both were healthy, their collapses were completely shocking and unnatural. At the trial, she cried once and it was because the doctor she fancied was giving evidence and she heard his voice from behind a screen. Never shed a tear for the babies. She messed up at the trial when talking about the insulin with one of the babies. I revelled in that lol
@@Victoria-iu5sbCompletely agree, I think she wanted to destroy the parent's joy first and foremost and absolutely loved seeing them utterly broken and distraught on what should have been the happiest days of their lives. The babies were just a means to do that but I'm sure she loved the control and power she had over the babies, essentially playing God. Then the added element of inflicting really painful deaths onto these poor little defenseless babies, disgusting excuse for a human.
Some of the parents remarked that Lucy was upbeat and cheerful when she was bathing and dressing their dead baby in front of them. Another said that Letby seemed angry when the resuscitation of their child was successful. She also interrupted a conversation between another nurse and a parent to inform the parent that they should not have hope. More reasons why I don't think your resuscitation theory is correct. I think you need to research the case more thoroughly.
Sounds like she was addicted to killing them. Maybe she is psychopathic and was so callous she didn't care about the babies and families she was just getting high off killing them and what it entailed (e.g. attention/drama/ seeing another doctor she liked). Psychopaths normally kill for their self-gain, so she must have got some ego/power trip from it or excitement. Psychos get bored easily, are very impulsive, and like to take part in risky behaviors. She appears like she must have some form of mania the way she smiles so much and pulls weird faces, which reminds me of Ted Bundy. Psychopaths are supposed to be 1 in 100 but her behavior is very uncommon (she may have a dual diagnosis - psychopath with mania.-like condiiton. I wonder why she did it and when it started? Were there any signs in her younger years? There must have been (a lack of empathy for example). She has wrecked her parent's lives as well. Must have been a terrible shock for her parents that I doubt they'll ever get over.
@@Musicch-gi8ejStop with all these labels! She was just pure evil! She was not insane! She knew exactly what she was doing. She listened to her evil whispers and let them manifest. These western mental illness labels would make every criminal of even heinous crimes a victim! Absolutely hypocrisy how because she's white,blue eyes and blonde you've got all these "experts" trying desperately to change the narrative and humanise her by labelling her with the most unheard of mental illness. Would they do the same had she been of a different ethnic background or religion? I think not!!
She is not mad because she does her work during years and nobody in the hospital saw an abnormal behaviour. No excuse for her.She knows that she is a killer and she thinks she has the right to do so.
I've followed this case very thoroughly. I believe she fits the God complex motivation as she is incredibly arrogant, as Shipman was said to be. Plus sadism - she massively enjoyed the parents' grief and torment, and picked babies or mothers that had already overcome adversity to survive/give birth, or killed babies on very special dates. She also picked multiples, because the parents would still be present for the surviving baby, and Lucy could enjoy the process twice. Not forgetting the way she killed most of the babies was very painful, including violent trauma to the throat and liver, and overfilling the guts with air. The code blue junkie doesn't fit because although she was present during resus, there are instances of her sabotaging the resus attempts - such as obfuscating when asked how much adrenaline had been administered, or hiding the medication cheat sheets. Plus if that was the case, she would have picked methods she could potentially revive the children from. Whereas you can only survive air embolism through sheer luck, and with one of the insulin babies, she hooked him up with a poisoned bag, misreported his blood sugar as higher than it was (so that he'd receive less life-saving sugar from oblivious nurses) and went home. The Munchausen's-by-proxy theory in fits in terms of the God complex, as there is a minority of 10% of Munchausen's individuals whose motivation is outsmarting doctors, rather than obtaining care and sympathy. I believe she fits this minority sub-type. I also believe she will kill herself, probably when her parents either die themselves or stop supporting her.
This is the most accurate description of her I’ve read from hundreds / thousands of analysis. Thank you for sharing this. May the babies rest in peace ☹️
Thank you for this analysis. I would be very interested in some root cause analyses of this (complex) pathology. What was it in her life/childhood/family that could have lead to this kind of disorder? My guess would be there was some underlying narcistic petsonality disorder. But I have no clue, just guessing. What do you think?
She caused excruciating pain to newborns again and again and then again over and over. To say she didn't know what she was doing or what she was going after is absolutely remarkable.
Not to mention she was well aware resus attempts were doomed to fail given the injuries she was inflicting. She may have got an adrenaline buzz from the drama and attention but it seems to be about power & control & probably a sadistic thrill from inflicting pain on parents & taking away from them what she wanted and didn’t have.
I agree. She also rammed a sharp metal instrument down one baby's throat, causing him to scream loudly in pain and bleed profusely from his mouth and nose. She knew what she was doing and that resuscitation wouldn't save them. It's a shame the hospital management ignored doctors' concerns and instead tried to shut them up. These managers should face charges too as they're responsible for babies' deaths.
To be honest I don’t think experts can work this person out , she’s a different breed of evil , how can you say she’s not a psychopath , ok then if she’s not what is she ? Many experts didn’t think Jeffrey Dahmer was a true psychopath . Maybe there needs to be a new description for this type of personality.
This comment sounds like many people, clueless about complex psychology and also falling back into a medieval Christian mentality to explain shocking human behaviour, which is not an explanation. Until the media and police and anyone else, stops falling back on catch all dramatic and emotive adjectives as if they are explanations, then lessons won't really be learnt.
Well, what is a " true" psychopath? The human mind is very complex and all psychiatry is trying/able to do is to categorize humans with the help of symptoms. The ICD10 or the DSM are manuals, established for that purpose. But in the end these categories are all constructs, based on experienced/ witnessed behaviour of individuals, but not on exact science. IMO, something like a "true" psychopath, sociopath, narcissist or whatever the category is, doesnt exist. These theories are crutches to explain the unexplainable.
Personally I think shes pathological narcissist. I agree with the psychologists that shes not a full blown psychopath but she has traits. Psychopaths are at the end of the spectrum and lack emotions.. narcissists have emotion but they are all for themselves. The psychopath perception is not clouded by emotion like the narcissists is. Narcissists operate as their feelings are facts. Very much like a small child because they have arrested emotional development. they have the emotional control, understanding and capabilities of toddlers or even younger. She probably has one or more of the cluster b disorders. Narcissists are all different in some ways, but one thing virtually all of them have in common is denial. They operate under a huge amount of denial. It's one of the central functions of the defense mechanism. Their self-centeredness and egocentricity is absolute as is their complete inability to see that other people matter in any way. Their whole personality structure is set up to believe this. if they have to completely deny, discard or reinterpret reality to make it fit they will. Pathological narcissism is an identity problem that has occurred at the fundamental, base level. It is the failure to distinguish the self from external objects. narcissists have an unstable sense of their own identity and also has difficulty forming meaningful relationships with others. They may try to adopt an identity that brings support and acceptance from others with it and feel important and be the centre of attention. They enjoy manipulating others and they get excitement and pleasure from tricking or "getting over" on other people. It makes them feel smart and superior. Psychopathy, narcissism , Munchausen syndrome, cluster b personality disorders, Machiavellianism, sadism etc they all overlap and branch off of the root cause which is pathological narcissism. They are different manifestations of pathological narcissism. the farther down the pathological narcissism toward psychopathy somebody is, the more narcissistic they are. Someone does not have to be a psychopath to have psychopathic traits or behaviors. They don't have to be a psychopath to have strong Machiavellian traits or views. Being pathologically narcissistic is enough. There is a lot of overlap and everyone is different, so the combinations or ways these things can present themselves are seemingly endless. That they will present themselves in some way is something we can say for certain.Machiavellian and psychopathic traits or behaviors are basically intrinsic to pathological narcissism, because narcissism is the base upon which these behaviors and viewpoints grow. If this kind of personality were a garden, then narcissism is the soil and these other things are the plants which flourish in it. Narcissists will go to whatever lengths they have to in order to get what they want and so often what they want is revenge. Hurting others makes them feel better and powerful . It is like food to them, literally. They love it, because they hate themselves and they hate you The narcissist has a vicious, sadistic Superego (the part of a person's mind that acts as a self-critical conscience, reflecting social standards learned from parents and teachers) that attacks them so they take all that sadistic viciousness they are hearing from the Superego out on others to make themselves feel better. They are truly evil people who literally desire to destroy others because they are jealous and believe that other people have things (love, sex, material things, popularity) that they (the narcissist) are being purposely and spitefully denied. As with anyone else, a narcissist's jealousy is an expression of problems with self-worth. It's extreme jealousy compared to most people because their lack of self-worth is extreme compared to most people. If you have slightly low self-esteem, you might be a little jealous in some situations. If you have none at all, you would be extremely jealous in every situation. This is the problem for the pathologically narcissistic person. Most of us have been jealous at some point or another. Maybe someone had something that you wished you had, or perhaps your significant other was unfaithful. It's usually pretty specific for most people, and it often relates to the normal competitiveness that people feel in different situations or relationships. Narcissists, though, are jealous of everybody over everything. Most seem to believe that everyone else has everything they don't and they are extremely envious and resentful of that. It reminds them of how inadequate they and their circumstances are. However, whereas most people simply mull over this type of jealousy internally because they are embarrassed about it, the narcissisti may actually attempt to sabotage or destroy the object of their jealousy. Narcissistic people believe that it is unfair for others to have things they don't. There was a fairly recent case where a woman killed her upstairs neighbors by setting their apartment on fire, killing both them and the three children in there with them. She was jealous because they had a happy relationship, and she did not. Rather than improve her own life, this undoubtedly narcissistic person chose instead to destroy the happiness and even the very lives of those who she felt had it better. This is often a common theme for narcissistic people. Why should others be happy while they suffer? These people were killed simply to make this obviously narcissistic person feel better about herself. Their lives meant absolutely nothing to her; they had no value except how they made her feel. For most people, jealousy means "to envy." For pathologically narcissistic people, jealousy often means "to destroy." They attempt to destroy, control or sabotage situations, things and people they are jealous of. Just like any other person, jealousy happens because pathologically narcissistic people feel inadequate. The problem is that they feel inadequate in every way about everything and that they believe they are entitled to destroy things or people because of it. Because narcissists cannot create or sustain self-worth, every bit of it has to come from other people, either directly through attention or indirectly through "contests" where they compare themselves to others and come out the winner. This is a reflexive coping mechanism designed to combat the feelings of pathological self-hatred and shame that narcissists have internalized and often deny. The shame experienced by truly narcissistic people is generally of tidal wave proportions and with no coping mechanisms to deal with it except various manifestations of avoidance and denial, they live in fear of being unable to outrun it one day. A common misconception regarding narcissists is the discrepancy between remorse and shame. Their shame is often mistaken for remorse (by the narcissist and those around them), but it isn't. Remorse is for other people and is usually connected to empathy. Shame is for the self and is not connected to empathy in any way; it's all about them. It also usually has nothing to do with anything they've actually done. It may seem connected, but only tangentially; the thing they've been called out for is not the real focus, nor is the hurt they caused other people. Being called out for triggers the shame of being thought of as a bad person who does bad things. It is another example of how horrible they are. This thought process does not really address or even acknowledge the wrong they've done to the other person, though this can be difficult to see at first. Their focus is on them, and it stays there. Remorse also implies that the person has taken responsibility for doing something wrong. Shame does not require that. A person can feel shame but not feel responsibility. Narcissists are champions at this. They can feel shame while still refusing to acknowledge the other person's feelings. This is because their shame is so powerful that it prevents feelings for other people from being experienced.
Personally I think shes pathological narcissist. I agree with the psychologists that shes not a full blown psychopath but she has traits. Psychopaths are at the end of the spectrum and lack emotions.. narcissists have emotion but they are all for themselves. The psychopath perception is not clouded by emotion like the narcissists is. Narcissists operate as their feelings are facts. Very much like a small child because they have arrested emotional development. they have the emotional control, understanding and capabilities of toddlers or even younger. She probably has one or more of the cluster b disorders. Narcissists are all different in some ways, but one thing virtually all of them have in common is denial. They operate under a huge amount of denial. It's one of the central functions of the defense mechanism. Their self-centeredness and egocentricity is absolute as is their complete inability to see that other people matter in any way. Their whole personality structure is set up to believe this. if they have to completely deny, discard or reinterpret reality to make it fit they will. Pathological narcissism is an identity problem that has occurred at the fundamental, base level. It is the failure to distinguish the self from external objects. narcissists have an unstable sense of their own identity and also has difficulty forming meaningful relationships with others. They may try to adopt an identity that brings support and acceptance from others with it and feel important and be the centre of attention. They enjoy manipulating others and they get excitement and pleasure from tricking or "getting over" on other people. It makes them feel smart and superior. Psychopathy, narcissism , Munchausen syndrome, cluster b personality disorders, Machiavellianism, sadism etc they all overlap and branch off of the root cause which is pathological narcissism. They are different manifestations of pathological narcissism. the farther down the pathological narcissism toward psychopathy somebody is, the more narcissistic they are. Someone does not have to be a psychopath to have psychopathic traits or behaviors. They don't have to be a psychopath to have strong Machiavellian traits or views. Being pathologically narcissistic is enough. There is a lot of overlap and everyone is different, so the combinations or ways these things can present themselves are seemingly endless. That they will present themselves in some way is something we can say for certain.Machiavellian and psychopathic traits or behaviors are basically intrinsic to pathological narcissism, because narcissism is the base upon which these behaviors and viewpoints grow. If this kind of personality were a garden, then narcissism is the soil and these other things are the plants which flourish in it. Narcissists will go to whatever lengths they have to in order to get what they want and so often what they want is revenge. Hurting others makes them feel better and powerful . It is like food to them, literally. They love it, because they hate themselves and they hate you The narcissist has a vicious, sadistic Superego (the part of a person's mind that acts as a self-critical conscience, reflecting social standards learned from parents and teachers) that attacks them so they take all that sadistic viciousness they are hearing from the Superego out on others to make themselves feel better. They are truly evil people who literally desire to destroy others because they are jealous and believe that other people have things (love, sex, material things, popularity) that they (the narcissist) are being purposely and spitefully denied. As with anyone else, a narcissist's jealousy is an expression of problems with self-worth. It's extreme jealousy compared to most people because their lack of self-worth is extreme compared to most people. If you have slightly low self-esteem, you might be a little jealous in some situations. If you have none at all, you would be extremely jealous in every situation. This is the problem for the pathologically narcissistic person. Most of us have been jealous at some point or another. Maybe someone had something that you wished you had, or perhaps your significant other was unfaithful. It's usually pretty specific for most people, and it often relates to the normal competitiveness that people feel in different situations or relationships. Narcissists, though, are jealous of everybody over everything. Most seem to believe that everyone else has everything they don't and they are extremely envious and resentful of that. It reminds them of how inadequate they and their circumstances are. However, whereas most people simply mull over this type of jealousy internally because they are embarrassed about it, the narcissisti may actually attempt to sabotage or destroy the object of their jealousy. Narcissistic people believe that it is unfair for others to have things they don't. There was a fairly recent case where a woman killed her upstairs neighbors by setting their apartment on fire, killing both them and the three children in there with them. She was jealous because they had a happy relationship, and she did not. Rather than improve her own life, this undoubtedly narcissistic person chose instead to destroy the happiness and even the very lives of those who she felt had it better. This is often a common theme for narcissistic people. Why should others be happy while they suffer? These people were killed simply to make this obviously narcissistic person feel better about herself. Their lives meant absolutely nothing to her; they had no value except how they made her feel. For most people, jealousy means "to envy." For pathologically narcissistic people, jealousy often means "to destroy." They attempt to destroy, control or sabotage situations, things and people they are jealous of. Just like any other person, jealousy happens because pathologically narcissistic people feel inadequate. The problem is that they feel inadequate in every way about everything and that they believe they are entitled to destroy things or people because of it. Because narcissists cannot create or sustain self-worth, every bit of it has to come from other people, either directly through attention or indirectly through "contests" where they compare themselves to others and come out the winner. This is a reflexive coping mechanism designed to combat the feelings of pathological self-hatred and shame that narcissists have internalized and often deny. The shame experienced by truly narcissistic people is generally of tidal wave proportions and with no coping mechanisms to deal with it except various manifestations of avoidance and denial, they live in fear of being unable to outrun it one day. A common misconception regarding narcissists is the discrepancy between remorse and shame. Their shame is often mistaken for remorse (by the narcissist and those around them), but it isn't. Remorse is for other people and is usually connected to empathy. Shame is for the self and is not connected to empathy in any way; it's all about them. It also usually has nothing to do with anything they've actually done. It may seem connected, but only tangentially; the thing they've been called out for is not the real focus, nor is the hurt they caused other people. Being called out for triggers the shame of being thought of as a bad person who does bad things. It is another example of how horrible they are. This thought process does not really address or even acknowledge the wrong they've done to the other person, though this can be difficult to see at first. Their focus is on them, and it stays there. Remorse also implies that the person has taken responsibility for doing something wrong. Shame does not require that. A person can feel shame but not feel responsibility. Narcissists are champions at this. They can feel shame while still refusing to acknowledge the other person's feelings. This is because their shame is so powerful that it prevents feelings for other people from being experienced.
The fact she checked a couple of the families' social media on Christmas day, more than once, particularly highlights the desire to see how she had power over their lives - seeing how they were coping on such a family orientated day, likely posting about missing their little one or posting pics without the child. Lucy probably got off on that.
No one can make a diagnosis until she has been fully evaluated. She needs to be spoken to at length to determine how her mind works. No one knows get and won't for a long time. All these people in tv are chances
Harming a baby in this way to get a kick from ‘code blue’ situation sounds Psychopathic to me ! After all she didn’t resuscitate them did she ? She failed , but was quite happy to repeat the performance knowing death was likely. She didn’t care though. Sounds like splitting hairs. What ever label , who gives a sh** EVIL HORRIBLE WOMAN !!
Because psychopaths have a limited emotional range they are easily bored so only something high octane is going to give them that emotional buzz to overcome that deficiency and make them feel something. Repeat criminal offending without remorse is classic. Munchausen's by proxy is a means to attract medical/nursing attention by harming others and she accomplished that plus thrived on the praise from parents for her 'care.' Every murderer is different and some will meet the diagnostic criteria for more than one disorder. God rest these poor innocents and their families.
To be quite honest, this professional doing the video is idiotic. Some professionals even famous ones just don't know what they are talking about. He even put in the headline information that she is the most prolific child killer in history, which is completely incorrect and laughable. I mean even off the top of my head I can think of Nazi guards that will have killed more children than her. I would just avoid this guy. Clearly not a very creative mind, likes to tickbox everything and can't think outside the box.
Omg, on one of her cards it has “your loved one will be remembered with many smiles.” Knowing she is responsible for their deaths, I find that sickening and deliberately chosen. She has got to be a psychopath. That is exactly the kind of twisted thing they’d do.. double meaning in a really cruel way where only they know what they actually mean. Pure psycho.
Or NPD they do exactly the same they love getting off on double meanings. Only if you have had a close relationship you see this all the time there truly sick.
@@explorer0213 yes, I noticed the message on the card and to me that just sounds like she is smiling because it’s a good memory for her, and getting away with it. It could be narcissistic too. The double meaning is disturbing. It’s like she is laughing at the parents in a hidden, sick and cruel way. I don’t know what to say.. are these people so disturbed that we should leave it to God. It’s too sad.
Psychopaths don't typically go out of their way to harm people, they just have zero problems with harming people they consider to be in their way. It would be something more like a sadist that would go out of their way to inflict harm. Of course the two can come together - a very dangerous combination!
In the end she got sloppy and careless. Serial killers usually get caught because they repeat themselves too much. To repeat yourself in the same building was stupid. Evil sows the seeds of its own downfall.
i don't think she was 'sloppy & careless'!! nor do i think she was stupid or guilty because she 'repeated' herself!! working late & long hours does not mean she is guilty - she may just have been a conscientious nurse!!! i believe she is a scapegoat in a coverup!!
@@normankennith7919I have no doubt that she is as stupid as they come. Stupidity among the young is rampant. There is a pro death culture that is getting worse with each generation. A post modernist pop culture has played a huge part in all this.
@@normankennith7919right.... A scapegoat who was the only one present for all 25 suspicious incidents, one other nurse was present was just 9/25 the rest no more than 3 or 4 incidents. So who is the real killer? The invisible man?
Honestly, it does not matter what she has or what she is. What matters is that she is going to be on (in- someone just corrected me. Sorry guys! English as a second language!) jail for the rest of her life.
What matters is that people like this aren't allowed to get in to the the nursing profession. Sending Lucifer Letby to jail isn't what's going to stop that from happening. Lucifer Letby's prison sentence won't save lives, it's what's done about preventing it from happening again that matters.
She was obviously (and we have to assume still is) a mentally unwell person. We have to be humane in recognising that. But that being said, she couldn’t be let off with a short sentence - the risk of her reoffending would be too great. I see it not so much about punishment, but about protecting against more loss of life.
She was jealous and angry she wasn’t able to feel the joy and happiness of having a baby with a loving partner so she destroyed the joy and happiness of the experiencing that!
@@gordons-alive4940self preservation. Denial. Narcissism. The idea that maybe she could forget what she did and avoid detection. Maybe there are two sides to her. The one that knows she is evil. And one that truly believes she's the victim in all this.
@@gordons-alive4940by lying to herself and believing the lie. Think Donald Trump who is another narcissist who cannot take criticism or responsibility for his actions.
@@gordons-alive4940by lying to herself and believing the lie. Think Donald Trump who is another narcissist who cannot take criticism or responsibility for his actions.
I suspect, and speaking as a former registered mental health now retired, that if Letby was seen by twenty psychiatrists there would be twenty different diagnoses.
Absolutely Psychology is a complete pseudoscience and there is above 90% chance Letby is not guilty of these murders as well as per private eye and Peter Hutchins and David Davies backed by real medics not idiot psychologists
You don't understand because you're obviously not the brightest. 'Evil' as explanation for mouthbreathers who do horrible things themselves without any self reflection
Psychopathy is just one of a number of malevolent disorders which can lead to serial killing. It's useful to consider them all because otherwise people slip through the net of safeguarding. Whatever the diagnosis it's clear she is a narcissistic, messed up, disturbed, evil individual. I think the 'shipman-like' god complex, getting off on the power of life and death sounds plausible as the motive. How utterly tragic and sad for the babies and their families.
Had she been previously diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder such as psychopathy? No. Most people with malignant disorders are not diagnosed (until it’s too late and they have been caught etc. ). People with NPD are hardly ever clinically diagnosed - why would they be if they are ‘superior’? So thinking that we can safeguard society from these malignant people by diagnosing them in time is sadly naive. It’ll be a cold day in hell when a full blown psychopath or narcissist steps into a psychiatrists office because ‘they think there’s something wrong with them’.
@@emotown1 from your patronising self aggrandising put down style I 'diagnose' you as someone who always has to be right, even when they're so desperate to see themselves as 'superior' that they miss the point and come out with nonsense. What would your great answer be? Or are you only concerned to knock other people's contributions so you haven't thought that far? All I was saying is that it's useful to have a broad body of scientifically gained knowledge so that we know what the full range of disorders is capable of and don't just lump everything under one diagnosis. If you think that the only way a disorder can be recognised is through people voluntarily stepping into a psych's office then perhaps it is you who is naïve. Just to pre-empt your next attempt to be right at all costs, that's all I'm going to say on the matter, I won't be getting into a long drawn out argument with you in which you will probably quickly resort to being increasingly insulting in order to "win."
She knew something was very wrong with her she said I will never have kids I will never marry they do know but keep it hidden in plain sight. An excellent read is Dr Martha Stouts "the sociopath next door". real cases with identities changed. There expert manipulators.
They don't feel superior but they act it. It's there mask there faults self it is everything to them. They also know that something is wrong with them but the faults self takes over. They can't form successful relationships. It's all an act and manipulation that come to them as easy as breathing. They created the mask very young so they believe this is the real person they are. Unless there from a family that is full of other narcissists.
IMO, she was intoxicated with the panic and tragic loss that others experienced, whether in the hospital or the parents. She was a crack-head junkie of their emotions.
I heard a fantastic diagnosis from a non clinician. She was so over loved that she sought control to get the same adulation from people around her. She could control her parents but when she lived alone she needed to get it through life and death and then glory through being a nurse. Best one I’ve heard so far. I haven’t done the commentator justice
@pollyester6639 from a medical perspective, when Lucy Letby was arrested, she was in a state of shock/disbelief and Severe state of Depression. The expressionless face (apathetic), the monotonous speech, the self-loathing, self-deprecation and guilt (as what she wrote on post-it paper, “Iam evil, I did this”) are clinical manifestations of a severely depressed individual. They got the wrong person. Lucy Letby might be a narcissist but not a psychopath killer. CLAIM: The deaths of the 7 babies in this case were initially considered unexplained. TRUTH: Autopsies were performed after death for 6 of the babies, and a specific cause of death was listed for 5 of them. The coroner found a cause of death in 5 out of 7 of the alleged murder cases. Two of them appeared to be, in part, related to aggressive CPR, two appeared to be due to undiagnosed hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy and myocarditis, one of the infants received no autopsy, and the other infant was determined to have died due to prematurity. It is highly unusual for the cause of death to be altered years after the fact and using methodology that is not supported by the coroner’s office. CLAIM: The babies died from air embolism, which was determined after the fact by an expert witness. TRUTH: The expert witness was not a pathologist. Air embolism can only be determined at the time of death using specific tests, which were not performed. The air embolism hypothesis is confusing because it fails to explain why some children apparently perished and others did not, and it has not been supported by the minimal necessary measurements. Air embolism cannot be determined by imaging, and can only be determined soon after death, and requires the extraction of air from the circulatory system, and analysis of the composition of the air using gas chromatography. CLAIM: Lucy Letby attacked a baby who was born at 23 weeks gestation, causing injuries to the white matter of her brain. TRUTH: Very premature babies often have white matter injuries due to prematurity alone. Parechovirus and enterovirus infection can also cause white matter injuries. In at least one case, Lucy is blamed with causing white matter brain injury. This claim is utterly dishonest. The infant who experienced this brain injury was born at 23 weeks gestation, and white matter brain injury is associated with such early births. Further, there is sufficient evidence that demonstrates that enterovirus and parechovirus infection has been linked to white matter brain injury in neonates, resulting in cerebral palsy. CLAIM: There was no evidence infection. TRUTH: The babies all showed many signs of viral infection, including changes to vital signs and poor feeding. CLAIM: Enterovirus is rare. TRUTH: There are many published reports of enterovirus outbreaks in the UK during 2015-16. In spring 2016, an outbreak was reported at a hospital a few hours away. At the time of the collapses and deaths of the infants, enterovirus and parechovirus had been reported in other hospitals. There is a history of outbreaks of these viruses in neonatal wards in hospitals around the world. They especially harm preterm infants who do not yet have a functioning immune system. It is reported that many parents of the infants were concerned that their ward had a virus (as was Lucy) and that Dr Gibbs denied this was so. To date we have seen no evidence to show they did any viral testing, and if they did what the results were. CLAIM: Blood tests prove that synthetic insulin was given to the babies. TRUTH: The presence of synthetic insulin cannot be established using the type of test that was performed. The testimony was false. The two claims of insulin poisoning are not supported by the testing conducted, and the infants (who are still alive and well) did not have dangerously low or dangerously high blood glucose levels for any period of time. There are many physiological reasons that could explain their low blood glucose during the whole period. In one of the two cases, assumptions are being made on the basis of one test taken at a single time point, clearly inconsistent with the other medical readings, and contravening the manufacturer’s own instructions for use. The report detailing the conclusions from that single test violates the code of practice of the forensic science regulator. Moreover, it appears that some numerical error has been made in the necessary calculation, resulting in an outcome which is physiologically impossible (or the person responsible did not know about the so-called “hook effect”). The mismatch between C-peptide and insulin concentration does not prove that the excess insulin found must have been synthetic insulin. There are many other biological explanations for a mismatch. No testing was done to determine the origin of the insulin. Similarly, there are many innocent explanations for the detection of some insulin in a Total Parenteral Nutrition (TPN) bag.
@pollyester6639 this case is indeed a major miscarriage of justice. Lucy Letby did not have a fair trial. In the case of Child G which they claimed was forced fed with milk. An infant who was born at 23 weeks gestation developed a projectile vomiting condition, immediately after being fed. These vomiting episodes were accompanied by moments of low blood oxygen levels (desaturations). It is reported that Lucy Letby fed the infant 45 ml of formula, breast milk and Gaviscon, however Dr Evans alleged that at the same time she also injected air into the infant’s stomach, via the nasogastric tube. Dr Evans claimed an estimated 100 ml of stomach contents was aspirated from Baby G and this was validation that Lucy Letby injected air and milk into the infant’s stomach, and she did so for the purposes of attempting to murder the infant. Dr. Evans also confirms that at around this time the infant’s C-reactive protein level had risen from 0 to 200. C-reactive protein is an immune response protein which is released by the liver upon infection, the increase in CRP is a strong indicator that she was experiencing an infection. As a consequence of the increased CRP the infant was prescribed additional antibiotics. There is strong evidence that excessive antibiotic usage in preterm deleterious to the development of the enteric nervous systems. Dr. Evans failed to demonstrate that the indicators of infectious disease, observed in Child G, were not causative for her presentation of desaturations and vomiting. In the case of Child F and Child L which they claimed insulin poisoning. Two of the infants were reported to have hypoglycemia, within the first few days of birth. Both infants were premature and they were both the result of separate twin pregnancies. Dr Evans claimed that Lucy Letby poisoned the infants with insulin, this claim was made on the basis of a single blood test for each child. The reason Dr Evans claims the blood test for insulin proves that Lucy Letby poisoned the infants is because they tested the concentration of insulin and C-peptide. C-peptide and insulin are produced from the same molecule, proinsulin, in an equal ratio. The blood test showed high insulin and very low C-peptide. This led to the faulty assumption that the insulin being measured must have been delivered exogenously. The discordance in the ratio of insulin to c-peptide was used as a basis to suggest that the insulin measured in the blood tests was delivered exogenously. There are a number of issues with this faulty reasoning. A blood test, such as the one used in this case, cannot be the only evidence used to make a determination of insulin poisoning. In neonates, especially premature neonates, it has been identified that the >70% of the insulin in the blood is actually proinsulin and its metabolites. Given that insulin is formed from proinsulin they share sequence similarity. This means that a blood test for insulin may also detect proinsulin and it will be misreported at insulin. There are numerous confounding variables that the expert witnesses fail to discuss or make the court aware of, which place serious doubt on the reliability of the insulin tests being used to infer that the infants were administered exogenous insulin. In the case of Child C, Dr Evans asserted that the infant died from Ms. Letby injecting air into the nasogastric tube. Child C was born with an air bubble in his stomach, which was observed on x-ray shortly after birth. This bubble worsened over time, and the description of the events that follow are suggestive of a condition termed PYLORIC ATRESIA. This condition occurs where there is a blockage in the stomach that prevents gastric emptying. Interestingly, Dr Gibbs made suggestions about a potential blockage but it is apparent there was little, or no, diagnostic work-up to identify what, if any, treatment should be given. PYLORIC ATRESIA is associated with significant mortality, especially where it is left untreated. Suggestions from the defense that the abdominal bloating occurred due to CPAP appear unfounded, given that abdominal bloating from CPAP typically does not occur until at least 4 days after treatment is initiated. However, the usage of CPAP may have worsened the condition, though the greatest issue was the failure to ascertain the cause of the black aspirates, and the associated gaseous formation in the gut and bowel. In the case of Child I, look how incompetent Dr. Gibbs was. He removed Child I from the ventilator at 12:45 am, despite that infant demonstrated signs of seizure activity (lip smacking, posturing), and she had repeated periods of apnea. After removing the infant from the ventilator, Dr. Gibbs left the ward and returned home. At 2:10 am, Child I was pronounced dead. Given that 85% of sudden infant deaths occur during the night time hours it is SHOCKING that an infant would be removed from a ventilator during the night, and when fewer clinical staff will be available to assist. Further, for extremely preterm neonates (
@@JoJoTwins - it will be interesting to see if an appeal will be lodged and on what basis and whether anything will chime with the theories you have put forward.
With the greatest of respect I wholeheartedly disagree. I have absolutely no qualifications so don’t take anything I say as gospel. But I really think this guy is letting her ‘unassuming’ appearance cloud his judgement. Her actions are characteristic of a sadistic-psychopath. She was feeding off the grief of the parents, she had 0 compassion when she tortured the babies, she took ‘trophies’, she was cool, calm and collected, she doesn’t appear to have any mental health issues, she was well-liked, she has shown 0 remorse. Cold paychopathic smile. If you cover the bottom half of her face you wouldn’t be able to tell she was smiling as she doesn’t smile with her eyes. There is nothing behind those eyes. They are dead.
@@missy3429 yes it’s all speculation I am certainly no expert. If she has ASPD however I would think she would have been born that way. Sociopaths are made and they are characterised by criminality and high levels of aggression. Psychopaths on the other hand can be born to stable families, don’t have to have a criminal history as far as im aware she doesn’t. Whatever she has I think we can all agree her actions are pure evil!
@@jamesjarrett52 - I don't think so. There is no other way to express the awfulness of her deeds. She knew very well what she was doing - she is not imbecile. Don't tell me it's not her fault or something else made her to do it.
I have seen so many people from Britain, Scotland and all hard cold dark weather north countries appear as immensely depressed My own friend said she took drugs just to not fall in depression as in the country side nonone meets or talks with anyone So the society is responsible, sarcastic negative people with over loaded work, no communication, no social life can lead people to evil, it maybe also domestic violence If you think what I say is nonsense, the dark web most of it comes from North side countries then China, Vietnam in that order
Always? What struck and strikes me is the fact she allegedly was "always" present when a baby died. Babies die also of "normal causes", not only of causes inflicted by some malevolent nurse and Letby might have managed to double that regrettable rate in her work place. So how could she always happen to be on the spot when a baby died? It just doesn't make sense. Or did the investigators identify the "suspicious deaths" apart from the normal ones retrospectively?
What about the fact she had argued with one of the parents after that parent complained when she said her babies had no hope. I think she then attacked both that women’s babies and killed them both so that may be also why some babies are not attacked and some are, maybe she had issue with the parents of the babies she attacked and they had in some way annoyed her prior to her attacking there children.
She also wrote down that she "didn't do it", and she's "done nothing wrong". She wrote everything down, and these statements were cherry picked from the piles of notes. They also date to after she was first arrested, not when the deaths occurred years earlier.
@ methylene5 Yes she wrote down I didn’t do this because that’s how you maintain the lying. The journal is thoughts that have been running around in her head that she dare not say so she writes it down because she can’t hold thoughts like that in her head any longer. By telling herself over and over again that no I didn’t do this until her believe it to be the truth. That’s textbook lying. You tell yourself over and over again that you never done something until it’s so believable to yourself that you actually sound like you’re telling the truth.
She may have manufactured the emergencies and got off on the thrill with any praise heaped on her afterwards. That is a psychopathic trait with all that matters being their felt sense of gratification, commendation and advancement.
He's quite right -she's a caring person who has been unjustly found guilty of a murder which she never committed! The toxicity of the nurses in the Chester neonatal ward of the Chester hospital is such than anyone else could have been killing the 61 babies who were expected by the nursing staff to die anyhow. Justice Thirwell is busy compromising her impartiality and it is deplorable to watch. She should recuse herself as she has deliberately fostered the partiality which she has exhibited! An inquiry led by a partial judge is really worth nothing.
Dr Raj Persaud should realise that The Judge does not have to abide with psychiatric jargon - we all know what the judge meant when he called her a sadist.
This crime is very identical to a social phenomena of beating children when they make any mistake Also identical to killing animals for meat or hunting for pleasure. A mental situation of willing to finish off someone weaker, this crime is a limit of where that mentality goes in the end
Two of the babies were tortured if I heard the news correctly. One was bleeding from his nose and mouth from having an instrument shoved down his throat and another baby had a severe liver injury. If that isn't sadistic, I don't know what is. I think the jealousy theory is weak though - she was capable enough, social enough, to attract a partner if she wanted. If not a 'traditional' psychopath, then maybe she's a sociopath with psychopathic features. There are most likely several co-morbid diagnoses with this one.
How dare this ambulance chaser diagnose Ms Letby from afar just to get his face on the screen. Even an amateur psychologist could see Ms Letbys real reaction to these incredible charges is one of honest distress at the idea of being thought capable of such things.
Do you think her mind was saying, i will never get married, i will never have children, why should they be happy, why should they have children, and i haven't got any of that ?
It might be possible for this doctor to summarise his experience of other patients, and read journal papers about surveys doing the same thing, but you can never know the mind of an individual person or their reasons for doing something. This is all guesswork, which may make some gullible people happy, but personally I take with a pinch of salt this doctor's opinion on why Lucy Letby decided not to attend the final verdict. In this doctors view, the only reason she might not have attended is because of denial. But I can think of another reason why she might not have attended the final verdict: in protest at the sheer injustice of her conviction!
Sadistic Personality Disorder (SPD) and psychopathy (often associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder, ASPD) are two different disorders, although there may be some overlapping features. Here's a brief outline of each: Sadistic Personality Disorder (SPD): SPD was a proposed diagnosis for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), but it was never officially accepted and included. Despite this, the concept persists in the broader literature and clinical discussions.Presentation: Takes pleasure in inflicting pain, torment, or humiliation on others. May be physically cruel or may be more subtle, using emotional and psychological means to cause suffering. Manipulative, seeking to control and dominate others. May enjoy the power and control derived from inflicting harm or causing fear.A history of cruel behaviors or actions, not just fleeting thoughts or fantasies. Psychopathy (often associated with ASPD): Psychopathy is characterised by a chronic behavioral disorder that includes features like shallow emotions, lack of empathy, guilt, or remorse, impulsivity, deceitfulness, and manipulation.While ASPD focuses more on behavioral patterns (like violating societal norms), psychopathy dives deeper into interpersonal and affective characteristics.Presentation: Superficial charm and above-average intelligence. Absence of delusions or other signs of irrational thinking. Absence of anxiety or other "neurotic" symptoms, considerable poise, calmness, and verbal facility. Unreliability, deceitfulness, and insincerity. Lack of remorse or shame.Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience. Pathological egocentricity, incapacity for love. Specific loss of insight. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations. Impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated sex life. Differences: Motivation: While both may engage in cruel or harmful behaviors, someone with sadistic tendencies derives pleasure from the suffering of others, whereas a psychopath may harm others for various reasons, including pleasure, personal gain, or impulsivity, without the necessary need for the other person's suffering. Emotional Depth: Psychopaths have a reduced capacity for experiencing deep emotions, while someone with SPD may experience deep pleasure or satisfaction from the pain of others. Empathy: Psychopaths typically have a diminished capacity for empathy, meaning they don't "feel" what others feel. A person with SPD might still have the ability to understand or feel what others feel but derives pleasure from inflicting pain regardless. Relationships: Psychopaths often engage in manipulative relationships for personal gain. Those with SPD may engage in relationships specifically to have someone to torment or control. Both disorders can be complex, and a proper diagnosis would require a comprehensive assessment by a mental health professional.
how much is she going to cost to keep her alive and for what ... we need a death penalty for some crimes and killing 8 and injuring 4 babies meets the criteria for me!
I feel it was about jealously. When you're a child, say under 11, you can get very jealous of 'other children'. If you look at her writings, she feels young, it feels like something an 8 year old would write. And at that age, empathy has not fully developed either. I recon she was emotionally stunted young and so, still jealous of kids. Perhaps npd going on too. I dont think she was hooked on the buzz by contacting parents ect afterwards. I think she was...spitting in the memory of the babies. Like kicking sand at someone youve already knocked into the dirt. Spitefulness. Npd would make it uncomfortable perhaps to think these people were currently wallowing over the child. Because it makes narcissists uncomfortable to think anyone is 'busy' with something else and not thinking of them. Even though that doesnt make sense to us, because why would they be thinking of her? But i dont think it has anything to do with not having her own kids (recon she just wrote that on a self loathing spiral maybe). Or that it was a munchensons buzz she was after. I think its just your standard npd need to be the focus of the world. And hate for anything that threatens that. Maybe that doctor she was sleeping with paid too much attention to newborns and that put her nose out. She needed to 'win' and for some reason these kids felt like competition. And narcissists need to destroy their competition.
A very astute observation! She clearly had a need to be seen as dedicated and ever present on the ward. I think she craved attention from the bereaved parents, perhaps to thank her for her work even after their baby had died (ie been murdered). She was said to be unusually irritable towards a mother when she failed to kill one of the babies.
I hold the view that individuals aspiring to join professions such as nursing, medicine, law enforcement, firefighting, and social work should undergo regular psychological assessments as an integral component of their training, education, and employment. These evaluations should occur biannually and serve to ascertain an individual's mental aptitude for effectively and competently performing their job responsibilities.
@@mstyahthe NHS is broken coz the tories want it privatised who is going to pay for what you propose when not even Jr drs on £14 per hour can get a fair pay rise since 2008.
Despite everything there are several intelligent people who looked carefully at the evidence and have grave doubts about the 'safety' of her conviction. And if there is reasonable doubt, she must be acquitted. I think the emotion of this case has led to Letby being demonized.
Stop beating around the bush and call it what it is. Shes a covert narcissist/psychopath. They are stil trying downplay who she is and what she did. Thats why she got away for so long.
She got away with it for so long because the hospital (or should I say Trust?) is run like a business (show me a more psychopathic institution) and was worried about reputational damage.
I don’t feel it appropriate for a clinical psychiatrist to publicly assess someone and make determinations based on the available facts and without a thorough clinical assessment. A psychiatrist is primarily trained to ‘medicate’ mental health patients so they can better function, whereas a psychologist better understands patterns of behaviour… To me this is unprofessional, sub-medical broadcasting and brings little to understand Letby or other psychological conditions from a balanced perspective.
No matter her complex psychology she is at her core a psychopath. She knew what she was doing and she knew why. She may not have been able to articulate the reasons but she still knew why. There was overwhelming evidence of this.
She was found guilty by a jury of murdering at least 7 babies, and 6 counts of attempted murder, and has shown no genuine remorse. That's as psychopathic as it gets. Perhaps a subset of psychopaths are also 'code blue junkies', but that doesn't mean they are mutually exclusive. He also implied nurse serial killers, including her, are generally better nurses than others. Which would explain all the children crashing or dying when she was on the ward...???
Huge difference between being found guilty and being proven guilty. There was no proof of guilt. The jury speculated that she was guilty. Do you honestly think that's acceptable? What if she's an innocent young nurse that's been falsly accused/convicted. Can you imaging the sheer hell she's going through. Are you really OK with it?
Had plenty of evidence, not just the fact she was present at every single death there was a treasure trove of evidence in her own house including notes and scribbles saying I did this im evil, she also stalked every parent who's babies she murdered on social media
I find analyses such as the one by the above psychiatrist utterly useless. As you say; she killed 7 babies, tried to kill 6 more, severely disabled another… who cares if she is a psychopath or if another terminology applies. She is evil persona fide, luckily will put away for life, and everyone else who obstructed the various docs and others trying to bring this to light needs to now also be held to account, fired, investigated - the whole nine yards.
@@paulroberts7544 With all due respect, but are you serious? Have you heard all the evidence they have incl the various rambling notes etc found at her home. No doubt she is guilty. She stalked the babies’ parents on Facebook.
most accurate analyse of lucy letby so far (especially on the denial aspect). i've seen this occur so much in my family, mainly from my mother exhibiting similar denial stances while inflicting harm on her children, she believes she is doing the best for them and has a god complex, always viewing that she is innocent and pure - never believing that there is anything wrong with her. these types of women are very much in denial of everything, especially their own self image. jealousy and victim playing are common, along with pathological lying.
In her note to self she said she had done nothing wrong then said she did it on purpose and deserved to die. Arguing with herself what’s that about? Extremely lonely despite appearances. Her only confidante was herself. No surprise she ain’t talking now.
This girl in my opinion has un diagnosed autism Has gon through life under intense control of her parents her parents even to the point of becoming a nurse to save babies as she has always been aware that she was herself a premature baby and nurses saved her..I believe she smothered in her parents attention and expectations..was never given time to process her own thoughts and inability to recognise her own desires as human being growing up ...just did what her parents wanted her to do as a carreer right the way up to them financially enabling her to buy a home near hospital and she knew no different and in my opinion has never felt like she had other options I feel her parents approach was intense control from birth They wanted the perfect image of their child going uni becoming a heroic nurse etc in order to boast and gain satisfaction of this perfect woman they have raised She is very Internally resentful and the idea of upsetting her parents would be Hell as she has been smothered controlled and moulded..the choices she made about what she did to those poor innocent babies gave her power and options..something she has never experienced throughout her whole life God bless the families of those little precious angels ❤xxx
Yes, he was. And guess what, I once had the misfortune to rent a house from his grasping mother in Mill Hill, London in 1993. At the end of the tenancy, as she didn't want to return the deposit, she charged 50 pounds to replace a 1 pound shower curtain that had a bit of mould growing on it. She was an absolute disgrace, just like her son. Totally grasping, total liars and fake people. They give immigrants a bad name.
Couldn’t disagree more, she did get pleasure(a kick) out of inflicting pain to the parents of the deceased children she murdered. She followed up on them sent them cards and get a thrill out of their devastated grief. If she couldn’t have a family no one else should.
It amazes me to see how many people in the comment section are going so easy on her and some even defending this monster. Guess why? Strange world were living in today.
not surprising, I saw many people defending Darlie Routier when overwhelming evidences were against her. In this case, obviously she is the murderer but no evidence directly pointed to her guilt. Her defenders can argue that no one saw her injecting air/insulin/excessive milk into the babies' systems as there was no cctv
I thought Raj Persue had been struck off for practising as a psychologist and psychiatrist because he blatantly wrote papers using his students papers.
Not struck off but suspended by the GMC - In 2008, Persaud was suspended from practising psychiatry for three months by the General Medical Council, having admitted being guilty of nine cases of plagiarism. He subsequently left his consultant position with the South London and Maudsley NHS trust(Wikipedia)
In my opinion, she was jealous of those families, and the fact that she didn't have an ideal life, or she wasn't at a stage in her life where she thought she would be at her age. She reminds me of a female incel whose angry at other couples because she's without. She wanted to kill those babies to hurt the families, not because she had a problem with babies or had a god complex. Ive come across a number of nurses in my life who've all been self absorbed and often sadistic. There's no empathy or care. It makes me wonder why they're attracted to this type of profession.
What doesn't match this opinion is that she has been spotted near babies that were already in an emergency situation, just doing nothing and watching them die. Almost as if watching a movie. She has a kick from death, grief and seeing the families suffering. Babies were the ideal ones for her to get it. She would follow the families on social media months after death, keep registers, etc.
I don't believe that a psycopath would write 'I am evil'. As incriminating as it was, this note also revealed a (hidden) sense of morality. In my opinion, what caused her to act on these babies can be found somewhere in these things : jealousy, envy, depression, self-hatred, fear (of aging and being single), desesperation, projection, emotional unbalance, narcissism, munchausen, thirst for excitement, desire for power/control (after a whole life of overparenting), etc. Feel free to add.
Of course you could write those notes as a psychopath! They are not a sign of remorse. She has not shown any of that in any other occasion. We are talking here of a person who repeatedly caused harm and death to possible 30 babies!!!! She wrote down the fact that she is evil. It does not express remorse. She is very cold, calculating and manipulative. Do not take something that she wrote on the "face value". Her brain works very differently than normal people.
I’m not getting the delineation between “psychopath” and “god complex” here. They sound like the same exact thing. There’s no way Letby isn’t a psychopath.
prosecution these days work on passion rather than evidence and this is what happened to Asta Jauskauskiene who was also found guilty of murder despite not even being at the murder which is not contested by the police and with absolutely no evidence during trial which connected her to the murder only fabricated evidence which if it was chalenged by the defence would have fallen apart...the poor mother of three was convicted of murder and is currently doing 24 years and yet is innocent...Cardiff university has worked on her case for four years and has not seen one bit of evidence which connects her to the crime....its a justice system on its knees and judges often make up evidence during trial which they should not....
That's why not reaching for the pitchforks is important (like alot of people in the comments); let's try and understand what is happening and prevent this human behaviour from developing in the future. Another failure of our society, not identifying Lucy's symptoms and helping her.
You cannot help ppl with NPD or sociopaths or psychopaths or for that matter serial killers they have to be stopped. They are not curable the limbic system is wired wrong as they can't be part time or sometime NPD.
Great work! And that guy at the end saying "I do not consent" is very important for people to see, hear, understand, and realise that is exactly what we all need to be saying whenever we see an agenda being announced that affects us adversely -- the elites *need* our consent, believe it or not; and they usually get it by us remaining silent. Our silence *is* regarded as consent. Every time.
Well-reasoned and presented. I also don't believe Letby is a psychopath. But there has been a relative absence of any discussion about whether she is on the autistic spectrum. She was an unusual woman, in that she seems to have hoarded all kinds of paper documents (which later proved self-incriminating in some cases) and "found it hard to throw anything out". She also appears to have had few if any romantic relationships, but became obsessed with this one male doctor. The scrawled notes the police found in her diary suggest that she suffered from rumination and repetitive, self-hating thoughts.
The feature that stands out to me across a number of cases is the sense of an extremely egotistical and immature person who seems remarkably inept in relationships and in aspects of life outside their profession generally. I could be wrong, but at the moment they seem to me to be something like the hole left behind after a huge ego has quietly burned out and they've collapsed inwards under their own weight.
All these are interesting theories. I lean toward the code blue theory because it indicates a compulsive disorder. But here is a much simpler theory that I'd like to suggest: plain old jealousy. She was a plain looking, single woman without a husband and family of her own. She could have just been jealous of the happiness she saw surrounding the parents-to-be, and wanted to spoil the joy by killing the new baby. Jealousy is one of the most toxic and noxious of all human emotions.
Jealousy could have been the initial motive for sure, then she may have experienced some sort of weird thrill, triggering a compulsion, or simply learnt that it got her the attention she craved, so a sort of behavioural reinforcement.
You have said it word for word what i have been thinking but there are many nurses without kids and are probably lonely as hell but would never kill like she has, We all have said at some point im going to murder that person when i see them but it is empty words but she actually did murder which says a lot about her
If she's 33 now and arrested five years ago, I believe she was 27, but you're right, that's not that old to be childless. I guess we'll never really know what motivated her, but when behaviour seems incomprehensible, it always makes sense to look at the secondary gain, and the secondary gain here definitely seemed to be attention, and her own diaries communicated a fear she would never get married, have kids etc Like I say, we'll probably never know, I just don't go with the "born a psychopath" explanation.I think that's the easy explanation because it avoids having to ask some hard questions, but I don't feel it fits. Pretty much any of the other theories put forward could fit. @@manalab1628
The motivation for people like this is usually power. Such people are secretly weak and cowardly at heart, which they repress, and are drawn to occupations such as health care (at all levels), social work and police work that give them access to vulnerable people upon whom they can prey while being outwardly regarded as 'good guys'.
I have a feeling that Letby won't kill herself as she has not accepted responsibility for her actions and has denied killing and harming those babies, this is why she didn't go to the Dock when sentence was passed, because in her eyes she's done nothing wrong so why should she face the Judge and families and be sentenced for crimes she hasn't done, this is the top and bottom of it! When someone is in denial that they haven't done something wrong they hide away and won't face the responsibilities or the punishment, and this is exactly what Letby has done. Hopefully there will be a Judge lead investigation into the whole management team who ignored seven senior Consultants and the facts that babies were dying and being harmed on multiple occasions in a very short space of time and that the pattern was one particular nurse was always on duty! A lot of management in the NHS have no medical or nursing training or experience, so how on earth can people with no experience manage and run hospitals? The whole NHS service needs an urgent Government review and overhaul. Just one last thing, Letby did write in one of her notes that she was frightened that she would never marry or have any children of her own, how right she was, but why did she write this , did she already know very early on before she was caught that she was going to end up dying in prison?????
She has achieved worldwide attention, kept her motives to herself, can play mind games with psychiatrists, retained the adoration of her parents, is protected in prison every day as a special unique at risk person. I don't understand the technical psychiatric terms, but if she is any or all of the pathologies conjectured, she is in a perfect controlling position to satisfy all her needs. So I don't think she will kill herself, & would predict she will become a Star in her in own mind, & perhaps for her fellow inmates...& as happily warped as she could ever be in comfort for life.
The only at least half-honorable deed left for her in this world of morals and mortals would be a clinical kind of suicide (maybe by eating razor blades to feel the pain she inflicted on the innocent babies) with a concise note left behind expressing her guilt, deep regrets and prayers to ask some higher entity for forgiveness.
The key lies in one of her well publicised scrawled 'notes to Self' and it's right under our noses and nobody is looking at it as the key clue that it is: in her note she rambled on self-pityingly, going on about how she'll never get married, have a lovely family or have children because she's "not good enough". Whatever ideas, fears or feelings she has on that entire issue, it sounds like it's profoundly linked to other areas of her psychology, a sad premature conviction that was disturbingly deep-rooted and something that was returned to in her dark insecure times of self-loathing and so forth so that she'd ingrained that conviction deep in her bones, repeating it like a mantra. That very particular entry in her diary, notes and letters is what the psychiatrists really need to focus on. I personally sense that it's the key to the right door, if any HONEST and insightful answers are ever to be directly offered from Letby herself. Why on Earth would a healthy, reasonably attractive woman with a good job have totally convinced herself she'll never get married, have children or have a family and then write those juvenile, immature notes to herself?! I think that's their first genuinely helpful clue, despite how tedious, complex and time consuming all further study will be.
Agreed. I commented along the same lines above (as a counterargument to a comment purporting she had no reason to be jealous to the parents) but arguing from the "premise of teddy bears" since I gave her the 'benefit of doubt' she expressed her fears of getting a life in prison or something and for that reason not ever being able to have a family. But yes: the "not good enough" is interesting. Yet it might indirectly refer to the prospect of incarceration without saying it - and without saying anything else either.
Thank you doctor I couldn’t agree more with you. It is sad that people like you didn’t stand up earlier with their professional opinions based on their clinical knowledge.
These theories are all based on her absolute and unequivocal guilt which has recently (as of September 2024), come under serious question. If she were truly and absolutely guilty psychologists and psychiatrists could put forward a limitless number of theory's as to why she did it, but we would be no closer to finding out why she did it. The problem now is that serious new evidence has come to light on a number of levels which may suggest she may not be guilty of murder after all in which case all these theories are even more irrelevant.
This is a highly convoluted set of theories. All this without examining the most obvious causes of the deaths of these babies. Perhaps the court should have looked at the sewage issues in the water and the lack of equipment needed before accusing nurses. Also the two doctors who were at odds with Letby because she criticised them. These matters need considering before sentencing a young woman to life imprisonment. The death of babies is of course a highly emotional issue and this case seems to be based on emotional grounds rather than fact, with all condolences to the parents.
She's definitely a phycopath if she had done this kind of murder in America she would have got the death penalty what a pity they abolished it in this country.
How is the death penalty a punishment. Why do you think she's on suicide watch. They want to die so they can free themselves from their sentences. Killing them is setting them free. Are you dumb.
its on its way out in the States, even the school shooter who killed 14 didn't get the death penalty. It's a shambles over there, look at California- over 700 on death row and not a single execution in almost 20 years with PA a close second.
The problem with the death penalty is it's totally irrevocable - if some new information was later obtained that somehow mitigated or even partially exonerated her, there's no way to reverse that punishment. Could be a brain tumour, unusual brain anatomy, severe childhood abuse, personality disorder, who knows. While there's no reason to ever release her, it's wrong to execute someone unless you have direct, incontrovertible evidence combined with a signficant wait time (in the US that's usually 14 years) to allow additional evidence to trickle in (even if it doesn't). As soon as you base an entire case on circumstantial evidence, you don't have that. If you execute someone before allowing additional information to come forth, you're denying people the right to appeal. Many people may and do want to see the severest punishment visited upon her (I would be one of the most zealous in that regard) but the issue is, if you want to see that happen, you've got to get all your ducks lined up in a row. You can't allow a crack in the facade to let any light in, and weaken your cause. Unfortunately, circumstantial evidence cases will never meet the standard of proof necessary to allow a death penalty without major risks likely to arise from strong scrutiny of the case over several decades.
As long as you're not the one being framed by dutiful police officers, it's easy to have this discussion. I believe she is guilty but we both know there was no direct evidence or a confession... slippery slope. You think it's easy being locked up for decades only because they give you a proper bed and a window.
Where you find vulnerable people you'll find predators.
Jimmy Savile 🤬
@@hilaryanderton One famous example but I think the poster is making the point that they are many, we shouldn't just be focussed on the headline cases (sorry if i've got that wrong, 9401...)
indeed this is true the probation service is full of narcisistic psychopaths in the job to serve their own agenda
Bang On.
That’s a bit strong coming from a vulnerable narcissist .as is 45% of the population
My eldest sister is a nurse. She is a narcissist. She has other issues asa child predator. She sexually abused me as a child when i was only 4. She has spent the rest of her life making me and my other sister as "hopeless, useless and never as good as her".
My parents fell for it hook, line and sinker. This is what narcissists do. However i have contacted tge Police in Scotland and now waiting on confirmation of her arrest.
Not exactly justice. I've met schoolteachers who are also driven by a belief that they are superior too. Sick people. Sick, sick people who are not afraid to destroy others to get what they want.
I hope this goes well for you Alan. So sorry.
Narcissism is deadly and cannot be reasoned with. Someone or something will be killed eventually.
@@alanbradley9621 I agree with you. Take care of yourself. I hope you can prosecute her. God bless
Yes Narcs try and kill you any way they can. If not physically them emotionally and mentally.
I too have met many many schoolteachers with God-complexes.
They arent nice to be around and very judgemental.
Sending strength and compassion to you.
I also have a covert narcissist in my family and it's so upsetting for those who come in contact with them.
Time to install cameras in hospital wards. If you’re doing nothing wrong it wouldn’t bother you cameras watching you
sure. and who’s going to watch the cameras?
@@PutinsMommyNeverHuggedHim exactly
What about patients’ privacy concerns, GDPR etc
A clever serial killer finds a way to commit the crime and get away with it. Cameras would just stop the crime from happening in front of the camera. As soon as they suspected a crime they should have installed surveillance.
Yeah more infringement on people's privacy that does nothing to prevent crime.
The sadism was against the parents. The death of babies motivated by jealousy and sadism. Payoff was hurting parents and sense of power over both victims and families.
Sadists do it for fun. A sense of deep delight. And then secondary elation from getting away with it. Running everyone ragged.
Similar to Peter Sutcliffe.
@@JohnCollins that actually describes her perfectly. The double thrill of playing God, the power and control of causing suffering to both babies and parents, and feeling superior and clever because she's the only one who knows what's happening and everyone else is too "stupid" to figure it out.
babies react to pain ..its got to be pretty hard not to want to comfort a baby
.. so why was this woman always referred to as a 'nurse' during the trial by media reporting, when her actions have contradicted the very definition of what nursing entails ie. providing care and comfort driven by the motive of empathy and altruism.
When someone knowingly and deliberately causes anguish and suffering repeatedly it is because they are acting entirely selfishly to enjoy a warped and deviant psychological payoff that normal people would find abhorrent and incomprehensible.
The ultimate justice in a case such as this is a 'life for a life' - she has been found guilty of committing multiple murders and true justice demands the death penalty - no less.
A society that tolerates murder without consequence is a sick society and mentally depraved. True justice has not been served by the sentence of life imprisonment.
@@Chris_Sheridan Because "Previous nurse" is quite a mouthful. Her position as a nurse is highly relevant because of the unquestioned access she had to vulnerable people. It's relevant to the method of her murders and highlights the need for better safeguards. Does no good to deny she was a nurse.
This theory doesn't make sense though because she purposefully attacked some of the babies at the end of her shift, so they deteriorated when she wasn't there... she wasn't involved in all the resuscitations. Personally, I think she got a kick out of destroying people's joy, essentially controlling their emotions. She would purposefully attack the babies on important dates such as their original due date or the date they were meant to go home. She also attacked certain babies multiple times within hours of each attack, she was intent on murdering them, it wasn't a focus on the resuscitation IMO.
I also think it was just the thrill of it being so easy and being able to get away with it - dupers delight
Wow. I had no idea she attacked on specific dates - definitely hate driven. The fact that she attacked twins and even rarer triplets is also hugely telling. The naturally conceived identical triplets were highly rare and special and she wanted to destroy that
This x1000 She wanted to kill, and she killed because she thoroughly enjoyed the suffering she caused especially to the parents. And she killed the babies in physically painful ways and enjoyed that too.
@@awaisr912Yes, there's quite a few disturbing details once you get into it. I'm actually uploading a video about her case tomorrow if you're interested. Completely agree, the fact that she targeted twins and triplets is another reason why I'm not convinced of this guy's opinion. She knew exactly what she was doing. She murdered 2 of the triplets within hours of each other and both were healthy, their collapses were completely shocking and unnatural. At the trial, she cried once and it was because the doctor she fancied was giving evidence and she heard his voice from behind a screen. Never shed a tear for the babies. She messed up at the trial when talking about the insulin with one of the babies. I revelled in that lol
@@Victoria-iu5sbCompletely agree, I think she wanted to destroy the parent's joy first and foremost and absolutely loved seeing them utterly broken and distraught on what should have been the happiest days of their lives. The babies were just a means to do that but I'm sure she loved the control and power she had over the babies, essentially playing God. Then the added element of inflicting really painful deaths onto these poor little defenseless babies, disgusting excuse for a human.
Some of the parents remarked that Lucy was upbeat and cheerful when she was bathing and dressing their dead baby in front of them. Another said that Letby seemed angry when the resuscitation of their child was successful. She also interrupted a conversation between another nurse and a parent to inform the parent that they should not have hope. More reasons why I don't think your resuscitation theory is correct. I think you need to research the case more thoroughly.
Sounds like she was addicted to killing them. Maybe she is psychopathic and was so callous she didn't care about the babies and families she was just getting high off killing them and what it entailed (e.g. attention/drama/ seeing another doctor she liked). Psychopaths normally kill for their self-gain, so she must have got some ego/power trip from it or excitement. Psychos get bored easily, are very impulsive, and like to take part in risky behaviors. She appears like she must have some form of mania the way she smiles so much and pulls weird faces, which reminds me of Ted Bundy. Psychopaths are supposed to be 1 in 100 but her behavior is very uncommon (she may have a dual diagnosis - psychopath with mania.-like condiiton. I wonder why she did it and when it started? Were there any signs in her younger years? There must have been (a lack of empathy for example). She has wrecked her parent's lives as well. Must have been a terrible shock for her parents that I doubt they'll ever get over.
@@Musicch-gi8ejStop with all these labels! She was just pure evil! She was not insane! She knew exactly what she was doing. She listened to her evil whispers and let them manifest. These western mental illness labels would make every criminal of even heinous crimes a victim! Absolutely hypocrisy how because she's white,blue eyes and blonde you've got all these "experts" trying desperately to change the narrative and humanise her by labelling her with the most unheard of mental illness. Would they do the same had she been of a different ethnic background or religion? I think not!!
Completely agree with you. It seems this expert was blindsided by her innocent looks and blue eyes.
She is not mad because she does her work during years and nobody in the hospital saw an abnormal behaviour. No excuse for her.She knows that she is a killer and she thinks she has the right to do so.
Well said, I didn’t like this analysis at all.
I've followed this case very thoroughly. I believe she fits the God complex motivation as she is incredibly arrogant, as Shipman was said to be. Plus sadism - she massively enjoyed the parents' grief and torment, and picked babies or mothers that had already overcome adversity to survive/give birth, or killed babies on very special dates. She also picked multiples, because the parents would still be present for the surviving baby, and Lucy could enjoy the process twice. Not forgetting the way she killed most of the babies was very painful, including violent trauma to the throat and liver, and overfilling the guts with air. The code blue junkie doesn't fit because although she was present during resus, there are instances of her sabotaging the resus attempts - such as obfuscating when asked how much adrenaline had been administered, or hiding the medication cheat sheets. Plus if that was the case, she would have picked methods she could potentially revive the children from. Whereas you can only survive air embolism through sheer luck, and with one of the insulin babies, she hooked him up with a poisoned bag, misreported his blood sugar as higher than it was (so that he'd receive less life-saving sugar from oblivious nurses) and went home. The Munchausen's-by-proxy theory in fits in terms of the God complex, as there is a minority of 10% of Munchausen's individuals whose motivation is outsmarting doctors, rather than obtaining care and sympathy. I believe she fits this minority sub-type. I also believe she will kill herself, probably when her parents either die themselves or stop supporting her.
This is the most accurate description of her I’ve read from hundreds / thousands of analysis. Thank you for sharing this. May the babies rest in peace ☹️
Agreed
Brilliantly put, thank you. This explains so much.
Thank you for this analysis. I would be very interested in some root cause analyses of this (complex) pathology. What was it in her life/childhood/family that could have lead to this kind of disorder? My guess would be there was some underlying narcistic petsonality disorder. But I have no clue, just guessing. What do you think?
Well said. This seems a much more accurate representation of her.
She caused excruciating pain to newborns again and again and then again over and over. To say she didn't know what she was doing or what she was going after is absolutely remarkable.
Not to mention she was well aware resus attempts were doomed to fail given the injuries she was inflicting. She may have got an adrenaline buzz from the drama and attention but it seems to be about power & control & probably a sadistic thrill from inflicting pain on parents & taking away from them what she wanted and didn’t have.
Not to mention the families and close family friends that she destroyed in the process.
Ikr. She was a university graduate in the field of nursing. Of course she knew what she was doing.
I agree. She also rammed a sharp metal instrument down one baby's throat, causing him to scream loudly in pain and bleed profusely from his mouth and nose. She knew what she was doing and that resuscitation wouldn't save them. It's a shame the hospital management ignored doctors' concerns and instead tried to shut them up. These managers should face charges too as they're responsible for babies' deaths.
Who else knew that there was a Munchausen by Proxy diagnosis for nurses and doctors?
To be honest I don’t think experts can work this person out , she’s a different breed of evil , how can you say she’s not a psychopath , ok then if she’s not what is she ? Many experts didn’t think Jeffrey Dahmer was a true psychopath . Maybe there needs to be a new description for this type of personality.
@telephassarose3501
For you, maybe.
For the sake of profiling and even treatment, no.
This comment sounds like many people, clueless about complex psychology and also falling back into a medieval Christian mentality to explain shocking human behaviour, which is not an explanation. Until the media and police and anyone else, stops falling back on catch all dramatic and emotive adjectives as if they are explanations, then lessons won't really be learnt.
Well, what is a " true" psychopath? The human mind is very complex and all psychiatry is trying/able to do is to categorize humans with the help of symptoms. The ICD10 or the DSM are manuals, established for that purpose. But in the end these categories are all constructs, based on experienced/ witnessed behaviour of individuals, but not on exact science. IMO, something like a "true" psychopath, sociopath, narcissist or whatever the category is, doesnt exist. These theories are crutches to explain the unexplainable.
Personally I think shes pathological narcissist. I agree with the psychologists that shes not a full blown psychopath but she has traits. Psychopaths are at the end of the spectrum and lack emotions.. narcissists have emotion but they are all for themselves. The psychopath perception is not clouded by emotion like the narcissists is. Narcissists operate as their feelings are facts. Very much like a small child because they have arrested emotional development. they have the emotional control, understanding and capabilities of toddlers or even younger.
She probably has one or more of the cluster b disorders. Narcissists are all different in some ways, but one thing virtually all of them have in common is denial. They operate under a huge amount of denial. It's one of the central functions of the defense mechanism.
Their self-centeredness and egocentricity is absolute as is their complete inability to see that other people matter in any way. Their whole personality structure is set up to believe this. if they have to completely deny, discard or reinterpret reality to make it fit they will.
Pathological narcissism is an identity problem that has occurred at the fundamental, base level. It is the failure to distinguish the self from external objects. narcissists have an unstable sense of their own identity and also has difficulty forming meaningful relationships with others. They may try to adopt an identity that brings support and acceptance from others with it and feel important and be the centre of attention. They enjoy manipulating others and they get excitement and pleasure from tricking or "getting over" on other people. It makes them feel smart and superior. Psychopathy, narcissism , Munchausen syndrome, cluster b personality disorders, Machiavellianism, sadism etc they all overlap and branch off of the root cause which is pathological narcissism. They are different manifestations of pathological narcissism. the farther down the pathological narcissism toward psychopathy somebody is, the more narcissistic they are. Someone does not have to be a psychopath to have psychopathic traits or behaviors. They don't have to be a psychopath to have strong Machiavellian traits or views. Being pathologically narcissistic is enough. There is a lot of overlap and everyone is different, so the combinations or ways these things can present themselves are seemingly endless. That they will present themselves in some way is something we can say for certain.Machiavellian and psychopathic traits or behaviors are basically intrinsic to pathological narcissism, because narcissism is the base upon which these behaviors and viewpoints grow. If this kind of personality were a garden, then narcissism is the soil and these other things are the plants which flourish in it.
Narcissists will go to whatever lengths they have to in order to get what they want and so often what they want is revenge. Hurting others makes them feel better and powerful . It is like food to them, literally. They love it, because they hate themselves and they hate you The narcissist has a vicious, sadistic Superego (the part of a person's mind that acts as a self-critical conscience, reflecting social standards learned from parents and teachers) that attacks them so they take all that sadistic viciousness they are hearing from the Superego out on others to make themselves feel better. They are truly evil people who literally desire to destroy others because they are jealous and believe that other people have things (love, sex, material things, popularity) that they (the narcissist) are being purposely and spitefully denied. As with anyone else, a narcissist's jealousy is an expression of problems with self-worth. It's extreme jealousy compared to most people because their lack of self-worth is extreme compared to most people. If you have slightly low self-esteem, you might be a little jealous in some situations. If you have none at all, you would be extremely jealous in every situation. This is the problem for the pathologically narcissistic person.
Most of us have been jealous at some point or another. Maybe someone had something that you wished you had, or perhaps your significant other was unfaithful. It's usually pretty specific for most people, and it often relates to the normal competitiveness that people feel in different situations or relationships. Narcissists, though, are jealous of everybody over everything. Most seem to believe that everyone else has everything they don't and they are extremely envious and resentful of that. It reminds them of how inadequate they and their circumstances are. However, whereas most people simply mull over this type of jealousy internally because they are embarrassed about it, the narcissisti may actually attempt to sabotage or destroy the object of their jealousy. Narcissistic people believe that it is unfair for others to have things they don't. There was a fairly recent case where a woman killed her upstairs neighbors by setting their apartment on fire, killing both them and the three children in there with them. She was jealous because they had a happy relationship, and she did not. Rather than improve her own life, this undoubtedly narcissistic person chose instead to destroy the happiness and even the very lives of those who she felt had it better. This is often a common theme for narcissistic people. Why should others be happy while they suffer? These people were killed simply to make this obviously narcissistic person feel better about herself. Their lives meant absolutely nothing to her; they had no value except how they made her feel. For most people, jealousy means "to envy." For pathologically narcissistic people, jealousy often means "to destroy." They attempt to destroy, control or sabotage situations, things and people they are jealous of. Just like any other person, jealousy happens because pathologically narcissistic people feel inadequate. The problem is that they feel inadequate in every way about everything and that they believe they are entitled to destroy things or people because of it.
Because narcissists cannot create or sustain self-worth, every bit of it has to come from other people, either directly through attention or indirectly through "contests" where they compare themselves to others and come out the winner. This is a reflexive coping mechanism designed to combat the feelings of pathological self-hatred and shame that narcissists have internalized and often deny. The shame experienced by truly narcissistic people is generally of tidal wave proportions and with no coping mechanisms to deal with it except various manifestations of avoidance and denial, they live in fear of being unable to outrun it one day. A common misconception regarding narcissists is the discrepancy between remorse and shame. Their shame is often mistaken for remorse (by the narcissist and those around them), but it isn't. Remorse is for other people and is usually connected to empathy. Shame is for the self and is not connected to empathy in any way; it's all about them. It also usually has nothing to do with anything they've actually done. It may seem connected, but only tangentially; the thing they've been called out for is not the real focus, nor is the hurt they caused other people. Being called out for triggers the shame of being thought of as a bad person who does bad things. It is another example of how horrible they are. This thought process does not really address or even acknowledge the wrong they've done to the other person, though this can be difficult to see at first. Their focus is on them, and it stays there. Remorse also implies that the person has taken responsibility for doing something wrong. Shame does not require that. A person can feel shame but not feel responsibility. Narcissists are champions at this. They can feel shame while still refusing to acknowledge the other person's feelings. This is because their shame is so powerful that it prevents feelings for other people from being experienced.
Personally I think shes pathological narcissist. I agree with the psychologists that shes not a full blown psychopath but she has traits. Psychopaths are at the end of the spectrum and lack emotions.. narcissists have emotion but they are all for themselves. The psychopath perception is not clouded by emotion like the narcissists is. Narcissists operate as their feelings are facts. Very much like a small child because they have arrested emotional development. they have the emotional control, understanding and capabilities of toddlers or even younger.
She probably has one or more of the cluster b disorders. Narcissists are all different in some ways, but one thing virtually all of them have in common is denial. They operate under a huge amount of denial. It's one of the central functions of the defense mechanism.
Their self-centeredness and egocentricity is absolute as is their complete inability to see that other people matter in any way. Their whole personality structure is set up to believe this. if they have to completely deny, discard or reinterpret reality to make it fit they will.
Pathological narcissism is an identity problem that has occurred at the fundamental, base level. It is the failure to distinguish the self from external objects. narcissists have an unstable sense of their own identity and also has difficulty forming meaningful relationships with others. They may try to adopt an identity that brings support and acceptance from others with it and feel important and be the centre of attention. They enjoy manipulating others and they get excitement and pleasure from tricking or "getting over" on other people. It makes them feel smart and superior. Psychopathy, narcissism , Munchausen syndrome, cluster b personality disorders, Machiavellianism, sadism etc they all overlap and branch off of the root cause which is pathological narcissism. They are different manifestations of pathological narcissism. the farther down the pathological narcissism toward psychopathy somebody is, the more narcissistic they are. Someone does not have to be a psychopath to have psychopathic traits or behaviors. They don't have to be a psychopath to have strong Machiavellian traits or views. Being pathologically narcissistic is enough. There is a lot of overlap and everyone is different, so the combinations or ways these things can present themselves are seemingly endless. That they will present themselves in some way is something we can say for certain.Machiavellian and psychopathic traits or behaviors are basically intrinsic to pathological narcissism, because narcissism is the base upon which these behaviors and viewpoints grow. If this kind of personality were a garden, then narcissism is the soil and these other things are the plants which flourish in it.
Narcissists will go to whatever lengths they have to in order to get what they want and so often what they want is revenge. Hurting others makes them feel better and powerful . It is like food to them, literally. They love it, because they hate themselves and they hate you The narcissist has a vicious, sadistic Superego (the part of a person's mind that acts as a self-critical conscience, reflecting social standards learned from parents and teachers) that attacks them so they take all that sadistic viciousness they are hearing from the Superego out on others to make themselves feel better. They are truly evil people who literally desire to destroy others because they are jealous and believe that other people have things (love, sex, material things, popularity) that they (the narcissist) are being purposely and spitefully denied. As with anyone else, a narcissist's jealousy is an expression of problems with self-worth. It's extreme jealousy compared to most people because their lack of self-worth is extreme compared to most people. If you have slightly low self-esteem, you might be a little jealous in some situations. If you have none at all, you would be extremely jealous in every situation. This is the problem for the pathologically narcissistic person.
Most of us have been jealous at some point or another. Maybe someone had something that you wished you had, or perhaps your significant other was unfaithful. It's usually pretty specific for most people, and it often relates to the normal competitiveness that people feel in different situations or relationships. Narcissists, though, are jealous of everybody over everything. Most seem to believe that everyone else has everything they don't and they are extremely envious and resentful of that. It reminds them of how inadequate they and their circumstances are. However, whereas most people simply mull over this type of jealousy internally because they are embarrassed about it, the narcissisti may actually attempt to sabotage or destroy the object of their jealousy. Narcissistic people believe that it is unfair for others to have things they don't. There was a fairly recent case where a woman killed her upstairs neighbors by setting their apartment on fire, killing both them and the three children in there with them. She was jealous because they had a happy relationship, and she did not. Rather than improve her own life, this undoubtedly narcissistic person chose instead to destroy the happiness and even the very lives of those who she felt had it better. This is often a common theme for narcissistic people. Why should others be happy while they suffer? These people were killed simply to make this obviously narcissistic person feel better about herself. Their lives meant absolutely nothing to her; they had no value except how they made her feel. For most people, jealousy means "to envy." For pathologically narcissistic people, jealousy often means "to destroy." They attempt to destroy, control or sabotage situations, things and people they are jealous of. Just like any other person, jealousy happens because pathologically narcissistic people feel inadequate. The problem is that they feel inadequate in every way about everything and that they believe they are entitled to destroy things or people because of it.
Because narcissists cannot create or sustain self-worth, every bit of it has to come from other people, either directly through attention or indirectly through "contests" where they compare themselves to others and come out the winner. This is a reflexive coping mechanism designed to combat the feelings of pathological self-hatred and shame that narcissists have internalized and often deny. The shame experienced by truly narcissistic people is generally of tidal wave proportions and with no coping mechanisms to deal with it except various manifestations of avoidance and denial, they live in fear of being unable to outrun it one day. A common misconception regarding narcissists is the discrepancy between remorse and shame. Their shame is often mistaken for remorse (by the narcissist and those around them), but it isn't. Remorse is for other people and is usually connected to empathy. Shame is for the self and is not connected to empathy in any way; it's all about them. It also usually has nothing to do with anything they've actually done. It may seem connected, but only tangentially; the thing they've been called out for is not the real focus, nor is the hurt they caused other people. Being called out for triggers the shame of being thought of as a bad person who does bad things. It is another example of how horrible they are. This thought process does not really address or even acknowledge the wrong they've done to the other person, though this can be difficult to see at first. Their focus is on them, and it stays there. Remorse also implies that the person has taken responsibility for doing something wrong. Shame does not require that. A person can feel shame but not feel responsibility. Narcissists are champions at this. They can feel shame while still refusing to acknowledge the other person's feelings. This is because their shame is so powerful that it prevents feelings for other people from being experienced.
This guy is forgetting she stalked her victims family to watch their grief on facebook.
The fact she checked a couple of the families' social media on Christmas day, more than once, particularly highlights the desire to see how she had power over their lives - seeing how they were coping on such a family orientated day, likely posting about missing their little one or posting pics without the child. Lucy probably got off on that.
Really poor analysis. The worse I’ve seen so far.
Also found in people with a sadistic Personality Disorder.
She is npd with psychopathic tendency, fueled by jealousy and envey. She wanted children and husband, wanted a man she could not have.
This is a critical point.
I think she was convinced she was off the hook and wouldn’t be caught . She looks in a state of shock when arrested and being interviewed by police.
yes, I think the same.
It helped that she is white since people do viewed white blonde women as innocent
@@run2cat4runAbsolute BS, Doesn't matter what skin colour you are.
No she was pfd
No one can make a diagnosis until she has been fully evaluated. She needs to be spoken to at length to determine how her mind works. No one knows get and won't for a long time. All these people in tv are chances
Harming a baby in this way to get a kick from ‘code blue’ situation sounds Psychopathic to me ! After all she didn’t resuscitate them did she ? She failed , but was quite happy to repeat the performance knowing death was likely. She didn’t care though. Sounds like splitting hairs. What ever label , who gives a sh** EVIL HORRIBLE WOMAN !!
Good point
Because psychopaths have a limited emotional range they are easily bored so only something high octane is going to give them that emotional buzz to overcome that deficiency and make them feel something. Repeat criminal offending without remorse is classic.
Munchausen's by proxy is a means to attract medical/nursing attention by harming others and she accomplished that plus thrived on the praise from parents for her 'care.'
Every murderer is different and some will meet the diagnostic criteria for more than one disorder.
God rest these poor innocents and their families.
You probably don’t know the technical meaning of the term Psychopath
To be quite honest, this professional doing the video is idiotic. Some professionals even famous ones just don't know what they are talking about. He even put in the headline information that she is the most prolific child killer in history, which is completely incorrect and laughable. I mean even off the top of my head I can think of Nazi guards that will have killed more children than her.
I would just avoid this guy. Clearly not a very creative mind, likes to tickbox everything and can't think outside the box.
100%
Shouldn’t be calling her a nurse.
Well she was as per registration.
She was a nurse and still is a qualified nurse. Murder doesn’t change your job title.
Yes the qualifications should be revoked
She is a nurse & Psychiatrist is talking about nurse serial killers.
She's not anymore!
Omg, on one of her cards it has “your loved one will be remembered with many smiles.” Knowing she is responsible for their deaths, I find that sickening and deliberately chosen. She has got to be a psychopath. That is exactly the kind of twisted thing they’d do.. double meaning in a really cruel way where only they know what they actually mean. Pure psycho.
Or NPD they do exactly the same they love getting off on double meanings. Only if you have had a close relationship you see this all the time there truly sick.
@@explorer0213 yes, I noticed the message on the card and to me that just sounds like she is smiling because it’s a good memory for her, and getting away with it. It could be narcissistic too. The double meaning is disturbing. It’s like she is laughing at the parents in a hidden, sick and cruel way. I don’t know what to say.. are these people so disturbed that we should leave it to God. It’s too sad.
All these armchair experts
Psychopaths don't typically go out of their way to harm people, they just have zero problems with harming people they consider to be in their way. It would be something more like a sadist that would go out of their way to inflict harm. Of course the two can come together - a very dangerous combination!
@@PlanetWomblechavs with no education always think they know everything.
In the end she got sloppy and careless. Serial killers usually get caught because they repeat themselves too much. To repeat yourself in the same building was stupid. Evil sows the seeds of its own downfall.
i don't think she was 'sloppy & careless'!! nor do i think she was stupid or guilty because she 'repeated' herself!!
working late & long hours does not mean she is guilty - she may just have been a conscientious nurse!!!
i believe she is a scapegoat in a coverup!!
@@normankennith7919I have no doubt that she is as stupid as they come. Stupidity among the young is rampant. There is a pro death culture that is getting worse with each generation. A post modernist pop culture has played a huge part in all this.
@@normankennith7919right.... A scapegoat who was the only one present for all 25 suspicious incidents, one other nurse was present was just 9/25 the rest no more than 3 or 4 incidents. So who is the real killer? The invisible man?
@@normankennith7919 👀 !!!!!!!
@@normankennith7919 you are not serious
Honestly, it does not matter what she has or what she is. What matters is that she is going to be on (in- someone just corrected me. Sorry guys! English as a second language!) jail for the rest of her life.
That's actually the last thing that matters.
@@jamesjarrett52 whatever
What matters is that people like this aren't allowed to get in to the the nursing profession. Sending Lucifer Letby to jail isn't what's going to stop that from happening. Lucifer Letby's prison sentence won't save lives, it's what's done about preventing it from happening again that matters.
She was obviously (and we have to assume still is) a mentally unwell person. We have to be humane in recognising that. But that being said, she couldn’t be let off with a short sentence - the risk of her reoffending would be too great. I see it not so much about punishment, but about protecting against more loss of life.
@@emotown1 we have to be humane? Tell that to the mothers of the babies that she murdered.
She was jealous and angry she wasn’t able to feel the joy and happiness of having a baby with a loving partner so she destroyed the joy and happiness of the experiencing that!
That theory fits in one way, but on the other hand she was young and pretty. No reason why she couldn't have had these things.
I wonder why she said she wouldn’t get married and have children?
@@ekl2947
Well, she wrote she was sure she wasn’t going to get married and have kids!
That was her believe!
and yet she didnt , only an "affair" with the married doctor A
@@dpayO2
and yet still single and isolated, and the one she loved was married@@ekl2947
If she's not a psychopath, she's even more evil than I thought.
I think she must be. If she weren't, how would she live with herself?
@@gordons-alive4940self preservation. Denial. Narcissism.
The idea that maybe she could forget what she did and avoid detection. Maybe there are two sides to her. The one that knows she is evil. And one that truly believes she's the victim in all this.
@@gordons-alive4940by lying to herself and believing the lie. Think Donald Trump who is another narcissist who cannot take criticism or responsibility for his actions.
@@gordons-alive4940by lying to herself and believing the lie. Think Donald Trump who is another narcissist who cannot take criticism or responsibility for his actions.
@@gordons-alive4940 she must be a psychopath. How could she do what she did if she isn't a psychopath.
I suspect, and speaking as a former registered mental health now retired, that if Letby was seen by twenty psychiatrists there would be twenty different diagnoses.
Absolutely. They have their God complexes also.
Absolutely Psychology is a complete pseudoscience and there is above 90% chance Letby is not guilty of these murders as well as per private eye and Peter Hutchins and David Davies backed by real medics not idiot psychologists
Could you handle the shitstorm that has engulfed her ? She pleads her innocence, her conviction is unsafe .
I’m not sure what this clinical psychiatrist is trying to say.
She was sadistic.
She was and is a psychopath.
And she certainly is evil.
👍....🔄He's going around in circles.....Whatever the 'diagnosis', she is, imo, evil.
You don't understand because you're obviously not the brightest. 'Evil' as explanation for mouthbreathers who do horrible things themselves without any self reflection
Agree, very poor analysis … looked like a white wash to me … he either hasn’t looked at the case well or he’s not a good at this!
I strongly disagree with this doctor
She's 100% innocent
Psychopathy is just one of a number of malevolent disorders which can lead to serial killing. It's useful to consider them all because otherwise people slip through the net of safeguarding. Whatever the diagnosis it's clear she is a narcissistic, messed up, disturbed, evil individual. I think the 'shipman-like' god complex, getting off on the power of life and death sounds plausible as the motive. How utterly tragic and sad for the babies and their families.
Had she been previously diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder such as psychopathy? No. Most people with malignant disorders are not diagnosed (until it’s too late and they have been caught etc. ). People with NPD are hardly ever clinically diagnosed - why would they be if they are ‘superior’? So thinking that we can safeguard society from these malignant people by diagnosing them in time is sadly naive. It’ll be a cold day in hell when a full blown psychopath or narcissist steps into a psychiatrists office because ‘they think there’s something wrong with them’.
@@emotown1 from your patronising self aggrandising put down style I 'diagnose' you as someone who always has to be right, even when they're so desperate to see themselves as 'superior' that they miss the point and come out with nonsense. What would your great answer be? Or are you only concerned to knock other people's contributions so you haven't thought that far? All I was saying is that it's useful to have a broad body of scientifically gained knowledge so that we know what the full range of disorders is capable of and don't just lump everything under one diagnosis. If you think that the only way a disorder can be recognised is through people voluntarily stepping into a psych's office then perhaps it is you who is naïve. Just to pre-empt your next attempt to be right at all costs, that's all I'm going to say on the matter, I won't be getting into a long drawn out argument with you in which you will probably quickly resort to being increasingly insulting in order to "win."
She knew something was very wrong with her she said I will never have kids I will never marry they do know but keep it hidden in plain sight. An excellent read is Dr Martha Stouts "the sociopath next door". real cases with identities changed. There expert manipulators.
They don't feel superior but they act it. It's there mask there faults self it is everything to them. They also know that something is wrong with them but the faults self takes over. They can't form successful relationships. It's all an act and manipulation that come to them as easy as breathing. They created the mask very young so they believe this is the real person they are. Unless there from a family that is full of other narcissists.
In the case of Shipman it was about greed too. He got his victims to sign their property and valuables over to him beforehand.
IMO, she was intoxicated with the panic and tragic loss that others experienced, whether in the hospital or the parents. She was a crack-head junkie of their emotions.
yes, i think you're right..
I subscribe to your view
You are describing classic narcissism
I heard a fantastic diagnosis from a non clinician. She was so over loved that she sought control to get the same adulation from people around her. She could control her parents but when she lived alone she needed to get it through life and death and then glory through being a nurse. Best one I’ve heard so far. I haven’t done the commentator justice
That is an interesting take on her motivation and definitely the parents seemed according to news reports very close to her.
Not much of a diagnosis.
@pollyester6639 from a medical perspective, when Lucy Letby was arrested, she was in a state of shock/disbelief and Severe state of Depression. The expressionless face (apathetic), the monotonous speech, the self-loathing, self-deprecation and guilt (as what she wrote on post-it paper, “Iam evil, I did this”) are clinical manifestations of a severely depressed individual.
They got the wrong person. Lucy Letby might be a narcissist but not a psychopath killer.
CLAIM:
The deaths of the 7 babies in this case were initially considered unexplained.
TRUTH:
Autopsies were performed after death for 6 of the babies, and a specific cause of death was listed for 5 of them. The coroner found a cause of death in 5 out of 7 of the alleged murder cases. Two of them appeared to be, in part, related to aggressive CPR, two appeared to be due to undiagnosed hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy and myocarditis, one of the infants received no autopsy, and the other infant was determined to have died due to prematurity. It is highly unusual for the cause of death to be altered years after the fact and using methodology that is not supported by the coroner’s office.
CLAIM:
The babies died from air embolism, which was determined after the fact by an expert witness.
TRUTH:
The expert witness was not a pathologist. Air embolism can only be determined at the time of death using specific tests, which were not performed.
The air embolism hypothesis is confusing because it fails to explain why some children apparently perished and others did not, and it has not been supported by the minimal necessary measurements. Air embolism cannot be determined by imaging, and can only be determined soon after death, and requires the extraction of air from the circulatory system, and analysis of the composition of the air using gas chromatography.
CLAIM:
Lucy Letby attacked a baby who was born at 23 weeks gestation, causing injuries to the white matter of her brain.
TRUTH:
Very premature babies often have white matter injuries due to prematurity alone.
Parechovirus and enterovirus infection can also cause white matter injuries.
In at least one case, Lucy is blamed with causing white matter brain injury. This claim is utterly dishonest. The infant who experienced this brain injury was born at 23 weeks gestation, and white matter brain injury is associated with such early births. Further, there is sufficient evidence that demonstrates that enterovirus and parechovirus infection has been linked to white matter brain injury in neonates, resulting in cerebral palsy.
CLAIM:
There was no evidence infection.
TRUTH:
The babies all showed many signs of viral infection, including
changes to vital signs and poor feeding.
CLAIM:
Enterovirus is rare.
TRUTH:
There are many published reports of enterovirus outbreaks in the UK during
2015-16. In spring 2016, an outbreak was reported at a hospital a few hours away.
At the time of the collapses and deaths of the infants, enterovirus and parechovirus had been reported in other hospitals. There is a history of outbreaks of these viruses in neonatal wards in hospitals around the world. They especially harm preterm infants who do not yet have a functioning immune system. It is reported that many parents of the infants were concerned that their ward had a virus (as was Lucy) and that Dr Gibbs denied this was so. To date we have seen no evidence to show they did any viral testing, and if they did what the results were.
CLAIM:
Blood tests prove that synthetic insulin was given to the babies.
TRUTH:
The presence of synthetic insulin cannot be established using the type of test that was performed. The testimony was false.
The two claims of insulin poisoning are not supported by the testing conducted, and the infants (who are still alive and well) did not have dangerously low or dangerously high blood glucose levels for any period of time. There are many physiological reasons that could explain their low blood glucose during the whole period. In one of the two cases, assumptions are being made on the basis of one test taken at a single time point, clearly inconsistent with the other medical readings, and contravening the manufacturer’s own instructions for use. The report detailing the conclusions from that single test violates the code of practice of the forensic science regulator. Moreover, it appears that some numerical error has been made in the necessary calculation, resulting in an outcome which is physiologically impossible (or the person responsible did not know about the so-called “hook effect”). The mismatch between C-peptide and insulin concentration does not prove that the excess insulin found must have been synthetic insulin. There are many other biological explanations for a mismatch. No testing was done to determine the origin of the insulin. Similarly, there are many innocent explanations for the detection of some insulin in a Total Parenteral Nutrition (TPN) bag.
@pollyester6639 this case is indeed a major miscarriage of justice. Lucy Letby did not have a fair trial.
In the case of Child G which they claimed was forced fed with milk.
An infant who was born at 23 weeks gestation developed a projectile vomiting condition, immediately after being fed. These vomiting episodes were accompanied by moments of low blood oxygen levels (desaturations). It is reported that Lucy Letby fed the infant 45 ml of formula, breast milk and Gaviscon, however Dr Evans alleged that at the same time she also injected air into the infant’s stomach, via the nasogastric tube. Dr Evans claimed an estimated 100 ml of stomach contents was aspirated from Baby G and this was validation that Lucy Letby injected air and milk into the infant’s stomach, and she did so for the purposes of attempting to murder the infant.
Dr. Evans also confirms that at around this time the infant’s C-reactive protein level had risen from 0 to 200. C-reactive protein is an immune response protein which is released by the liver upon infection, the increase in CRP is a strong indicator that she was experiencing an infection. As a consequence of the increased CRP the infant was prescribed additional antibiotics. There is strong evidence that excessive antibiotic usage in preterm deleterious to the development of the enteric nervous systems. Dr. Evans failed to demonstrate that the indicators of infectious disease, observed in Child G, were not causative for her presentation of desaturations and vomiting.
In the case of Child F and Child L which they claimed insulin poisoning.
Two of the infants were reported to have hypoglycemia, within the first few days of birth. Both infants were premature and they were both the result of separate twin pregnancies. Dr Evans claimed that Lucy Letby poisoned the infants with insulin, this claim was made on the basis of a single blood test for each child. The reason Dr Evans claims the blood test for insulin proves that Lucy Letby poisoned the infants is because they tested the concentration of insulin and C-peptide. C-peptide and insulin are produced from the same molecule, proinsulin, in an equal ratio. The blood test showed high insulin and very low C-peptide. This led to the faulty assumption that the insulin being measured must have been delivered exogenously. The discordance in the ratio of insulin to c-peptide was used as a basis to suggest that the insulin measured in the blood tests was delivered exogenously. There are a number of issues with this faulty reasoning. A blood test, such as the one used in this case, cannot be the only evidence used to make a determination of insulin poisoning. In neonates, especially premature neonates, it has been identified that the >70% of the insulin in the blood is actually proinsulin and its metabolites. Given that insulin is formed from proinsulin they share sequence similarity. This means that a blood test for insulin may also detect proinsulin and it will be misreported at insulin. There are numerous confounding variables that the expert witnesses fail to discuss or make the court aware of, which place serious doubt on the reliability of the insulin tests being used to infer that the infants were administered exogenous insulin.
In the case of Child C, Dr Evans asserted that the infant died from Ms. Letby injecting air into the nasogastric tube. Child C was born with an air bubble in his stomach, which was observed on x-ray shortly after birth. This bubble worsened over time, and the description of the events that follow are suggestive of a condition termed PYLORIC ATRESIA. This condition occurs where there is a blockage in the stomach that prevents gastric emptying. Interestingly, Dr Gibbs made suggestions about a potential blockage but it is apparent there was little, or no, diagnostic work-up to identify what, if any, treatment should be given. PYLORIC ATRESIA is associated with significant mortality, especially where it is left untreated. Suggestions from the defense that the abdominal bloating occurred due to CPAP appear unfounded, given that abdominal bloating from CPAP typically does not occur until at least 4 days after treatment is initiated. However, the usage of CPAP may have worsened the condition, though the greatest issue was the failure to ascertain the cause of the black aspirates, and the associated gaseous formation in the gut and bowel.
In the case of Child I, look how incompetent Dr. Gibbs was. He removed Child I from the ventilator at 12:45 am, despite that infant demonstrated signs of seizure activity (lip smacking, posturing), and she had repeated periods of apnea. After removing the infant from the ventilator, Dr. Gibbs left the ward and returned home. At 2:10 am, Child I was pronounced dead. Given that 85% of sudden infant deaths occur during the night time hours it is SHOCKING that an infant would be removed from a ventilator during the night, and when fewer clinical staff will be available to assist. Further, for extremely preterm neonates (
@@JoJoTwins - it will be interesting to see if an appeal will be lodged and on what basis and whether anything will chime with the theories you have put forward.
With the greatest of respect I wholeheartedly disagree. I have absolutely no qualifications so don’t take anything I say as gospel. But I really think this guy is letting her ‘unassuming’ appearance cloud his judgement. Her actions are characteristic of a sadistic-psychopath. She was feeding off the grief of the parents, she had 0 compassion when she tortured the babies, she took ‘trophies’, she was cool, calm and collected, she doesn’t appear to have any mental health issues, she was well-liked, she has shown 0 remorse. Cold paychopathic smile. If you cover the bottom half of her face you wouldn’t be able to tell she was smiling as she doesn’t smile with her eyes. There is nothing behind those eyes. They are dead.
Ooof so true!!
I don't think she was born like this though, ther is more to this but yeh those eyes
Like the monster that killed Millie. Dead eyes
He’s a practising psychiatrist. Professionals never offer a diagnosis of people they’ve never met.
@@missy3429 yes it’s all speculation I am certainly no expert. If she has ASPD however I would think she would have been born that way. Sociopaths are made and they are characterised by criminality and high levels of aggression. Psychopaths on the other hand can be born to stable families, don’t have to have a criminal history as far as im aware she doesn’t. Whatever she has I think we can all agree her actions are pure evil!
She went for Babies as they are helpless also like very frail elderly people, she thought she had power. Evil.
Medieval way of thinking.
@@jamesjarrett52 - I don't think so. There is no other way to express the awfulness of her deeds. She knew very well what she was doing - she is not imbecile. Don't tell me it's not her fault or something else made her to do it.
I have seen so many people from Britain, Scotland and all hard cold dark weather north countries appear as immensely depressed
My own friend said she took drugs just to not fall in depression as in the country side nonone meets or talks with anyone
So the society is responsible, sarcastic negative people with over loaded work, no communication, no social life can lead people to evil, it maybe also domestic violence
If you think what I say is nonsense, the dark web most of it comes from North side countries then China, Vietnam in that order
@mikemm5920 Stop making excuses for her, I live not for from Scotland and yes we have long winters but we don't go around doing what she has done.
Always? What struck and strikes me is the fact she allegedly was "always" present when a baby died. Babies die also of "normal causes", not only of causes inflicted by some malevolent nurse and Letby might have managed to double that regrettable rate in her work place. So how could she always happen to be on the spot when a baby died? It just doesn't make sense. Or did the investigators identify the "suspicious deaths" apart from the normal ones retrospectively?
What about the fact she had argued with one of the parents after that parent complained when she said her babies had no hope. I think she then attacked both that women’s babies and killed them both so that may be also why some babies are not attacked and some are, maybe she had issue with the parents of the babies she attacked and they had in some way annoyed her prior to her attacking there children.
She wrote in her diary that I quote “ I done this “ “ I am evil” so she definitely knew what she was doing.
She also wrote down that she "didn't do it", and she's "done nothing wrong". She wrote everything down, and these statements were cherry picked from the piles of notes. They also date to after she was first arrested, not when the deaths occurred years earlier.
@ methylene5 Yes she wrote down I didn’t do this because that’s how you maintain the lying. The journal is thoughts that have been running around in her head that she dare not say so she writes it down because she can’t hold thoughts like that in her head any longer. By telling herself over and over again that no I didn’t do this until her believe it to be the truth. That’s textbook lying. You tell yourself over and over again that you never done something until it’s so believable to yourself that you actually sound like you’re telling the truth.
Her grammar was better than that
@ celinehynes3336 What has grammar got to do with the point being made. Pay attention.
She also wrote "I've done nothing wrong". She is a bizarre individual who thankfully will never be freed.
She may have manufactured the emergencies and got off on the thrill with any praise heaped on her afterwards. That is a psychopathic trait with all that matters being their felt sense of gratification, commendation and advancement.
I agree.. and she was always there when the baby died and was probably addicted to the drama that ensued
He's quite right -she's a caring person who has been unjustly found guilty of a murder which she never committed! The toxicity of the nurses in the Chester neonatal ward of the Chester hospital is such than anyone else could have been killing the 61 babies who were expected by the nursing staff to die anyhow. Justice Thirwell is busy compromising her impartiality and it is deplorable to watch. She should recuse herself as she has deliberately fostered the partiality which she has exhibited! An inquiry led by a partial judge is really worth nothing.
I think this may be a miscarriage of justice.
Dr Raj Persaud should realise that The Judge does not have to abide with psychiatric jargon - we all know what the judge meant when he called her a sadist.
The judge’s analysis is more accurate than this an informed jargon.
Interesting points made but I don't agree with you that she is not a psychopath.
This crime is very identical to a social phenomena of beating children when they make any mistake
Also identical to killing animals for meat or hunting for pleasure.
A mental situation of willing to finish off someone weaker, this crime is a limit of where that mentality goes in the end
I agree the DR is wrong
Bring back the death penalty
Two of the babies were tortured if I heard the news correctly. One was bleeding from his nose and mouth from having an instrument shoved down his throat and another baby had a severe liver injury. If that isn't sadistic, I don't know what is. I think the jealousy theory is weak though - she was capable enough, social enough, to attract a partner if she wanted. If not a 'traditional' psychopath, then maybe she's a sociopath with psychopathic features. There are most likely several co-morbid diagnoses with this one.
She was having an affair with a married doctor at the hospital..
He's hoping she never gets out. @@missy3429
She was having a secret affair with a married male doctor.
Shows she has no morals
How dare this ambulance chaser diagnose Ms Letby from afar just to get his face on the screen. Even an amateur psychologist could see Ms Letbys real reaction to these incredible charges is one of honest distress at the idea of being thought capable of such things.
Do you think her mind was saying, i will never get married, i will never have children, why should they be happy, why should they have children, and i haven't got any of that ?
It might be possible for this doctor to summarise his experience of other patients, and read journal papers about surveys doing the same thing, but you can never know the mind of an individual person or their reasons for doing something. This is all guesswork, which may make some gullible people happy, but personally I take with a pinch of salt this doctor's opinion on why Lucy Letby decided not to attend the final verdict. In this doctors view, the only reason she might not have attended is because of denial. But I can think of another reason why she might not have attended the final verdict: in protest at the sheer injustice of her conviction!
You went too easy on her, Doc.
Because she’s white. He is scared to analyse her properly
Sadistic Personality Disorder (SPD) and psychopathy (often associated with Antisocial Personality Disorder, ASPD) are two different disorders, although there may be some overlapping features. Here's a brief outline of each:
Sadistic Personality Disorder (SPD):
SPD was a proposed diagnosis for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), but it was never officially accepted and included. Despite this, the concept persists in the broader literature and clinical discussions.Presentation: Takes pleasure in inflicting pain, torment, or humiliation on others. May be physically cruel or may be more subtle, using emotional and psychological means to cause suffering. Manipulative, seeking to control and dominate others. May enjoy the power and control derived from inflicting harm or causing fear.A history of cruel behaviors or actions, not just fleeting thoughts or fantasies.
Psychopathy (often associated with ASPD):
Psychopathy is characterised by a chronic behavioral disorder that includes features like shallow emotions, lack of empathy, guilt, or remorse, impulsivity, deceitfulness, and manipulation.While ASPD focuses more on behavioral patterns (like violating societal norms), psychopathy dives deeper into interpersonal and affective characteristics.Presentation: Superficial charm and above-average intelligence. Absence of delusions or other signs of irrational thinking. Absence of anxiety or other "neurotic" symptoms, considerable poise, calmness, and verbal facility. Unreliability, deceitfulness, and insincerity. Lack of remorse or shame.Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience. Pathological egocentricity, incapacity for love. Specific loss of insight. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations. Impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated sex life.
Differences:
Motivation: While both may engage in cruel or harmful behaviors, someone with sadistic tendencies derives pleasure from the suffering of others, whereas a psychopath may harm others for various reasons, including pleasure, personal gain, or impulsivity, without the necessary need for the other person's suffering.
Emotional Depth: Psychopaths have a reduced capacity for experiencing deep emotions, while someone with SPD may experience deep pleasure or satisfaction from the pain of others.
Empathy: Psychopaths typically have a diminished capacity for empathy, meaning they don't "feel" what others feel. A person with SPD might still have the ability to understand or feel what others feel but derives pleasure from inflicting pain regardless.
Relationships: Psychopaths often engage in manipulative relationships for personal gain. Those with SPD may engage in relationships specifically to have someone to torment or control.
Both disorders can be complex, and a proper diagnosis would require a comprehensive assessment by a mental health professional.
how much is she going to cost to keep her alive and for what ... we need a death penalty for some crimes and killing 8 and injuring 4 babies meets the criteria for me!
Karl Menninger strongly disagrees.
I feel it was about jealously. When you're a child, say under 11, you can get very jealous of 'other children'. If you look at her writings, she feels young, it feels like something an 8 year old would write. And at that age, empathy has not fully developed either. I recon she was emotionally stunted young and so, still jealous of kids. Perhaps npd going on too. I dont think she was hooked on the buzz by contacting parents ect afterwards. I think she was...spitting in the memory of the babies. Like kicking sand at someone youve already knocked into the dirt. Spitefulness. Npd would make it uncomfortable perhaps to think these people were currently wallowing over the child. Because it makes narcissists uncomfortable to think anyone is 'busy' with something else and not thinking of them. Even though that doesnt make sense to us, because why would they be thinking of her? But i dont think it has anything to do with not having her own kids (recon she just wrote that on a self loathing spiral maybe). Or that it was a munchensons buzz she was after. I think its just your standard npd need to be the focus of the world. And hate for anything that threatens that. Maybe that doctor she was sleeping with paid too much attention to newborns and that put her nose out. She needed to 'win' and for some reason these kids felt like competition. And narcissists need to destroy their competition.
I 100% agree with your assessment! Jealousy and emotional immaturity are a recipe for evil.👍
Very interesting.... she was an only child, her parents were apparently quite smothering with phone calls, wanting her time etc..
Yes npd I'd say. off her head on power
Yes emotionally repressed or stunted
A very astute observation! She clearly had a need to be seen as dedicated and ever present on the ward. I think she craved attention from the bereaved parents, perhaps to thank her for her work even after their baby had died (ie been murdered). She was said to be unusually irritable towards a mother when she failed to kill one of the babies.
I fear there may well be more victims
I agree shes not a psychpoath. Shes not a killer either. 😢
I hold the view that individuals aspiring to join professions such as nursing, medicine, law enforcement, firefighting, and social work should undergo regular psychological assessments as an integral component of their training, education, and employment. These evaluations should occur biannually and serve to ascertain an individual's mental aptitude for effectively and competently performing their job responsibilities.
@@HunkumSpunkum why do you think that? I think it’s should be mandatory if we need to protect the public.
@@mstyahthe NHS is broken coz the tories want it privatised who is going to pay for what you propose when not even Jr drs on £14 per hour can get a fair pay rise since 2008.
@@mstyah Politicians too. The power they have over millions requires it and looking at our current crop, it is sorely needed.
But why to include firefighters in this category of professions of special power over others?
These institutions need to carry out regular psychometric tests
Despite everything there are several intelligent people who looked carefully at the evidence and have grave doubts about the 'safety' of her conviction. And if there is reasonable doubt, she must be acquitted. I think the emotion of this case has led to Letby being demonized.
Well said 👍
Stop beating around the bush and call it what it is. Shes a covert narcissist/psychopath. They are stil trying downplay who she is and what she did. Thats why she got away for so long.
She got away with it for so long because the hospital (or should I say Trust?) is run like a business (show me a more psychopathic institution) and was worried about reputational damage.
Convert Narcissism doesn’t work that way
I don’t feel it appropriate for a clinical psychiatrist to publicly assess someone and make determinations based on the available facts and without a thorough clinical assessment.
A psychiatrist is primarily trained to ‘medicate’ mental health patients so they can better function, whereas a psychologist better understands patterns of behaviour…
To me this is unprofessional, sub-medical broadcasting and brings little to understand Letby or other psychological conditions from a balanced perspective.
Welcome to UA-cam
Spot on 👍
Some people get the thrill out of knowing they are the cause of a big disaster like an arsonist.
And the most common arsonists are firemen.
The elephant in the room is that Lucy is innocent.
Now, it certainly looks that way. Time will tell.
No matter her complex psychology she is at her core a psychopath. She knew what she was doing and she knew why. She may not have been able to articulate the reasons but she still knew why. There was overwhelming evidence of this.
and the overwhelming evidence is?
why is this plagiarist being given a platform? i wouldnt trust his professional opinion on anything.
She was found guilty by a jury of murdering at least 7 babies, and 6 counts of attempted murder, and has shown no genuine remorse. That's as psychopathic as it gets. Perhaps a subset of psychopaths are also 'code blue junkies', but that doesn't mean they are mutually exclusive.
He also implied nurse serial killers, including her, are generally better nurses than others. Which would explain all the children crashing or dying when she was on the ward...???
I agree.
Huge difference between being found guilty and being proven guilty.
There was no proof of guilt. The jury speculated that she was guilty.
Do you honestly think that's acceptable?
What if she's an innocent young nurse that's been falsly accused/convicted. Can you imaging the sheer hell she's going through. Are you really OK with it?
Had plenty of evidence, not just the fact she was present at every single death there was a treasure trove of evidence in her own house including notes and scribbles saying I did this im evil, she also stalked every parent who's babies she murdered on social media
I find analyses such as the one by the above psychiatrist utterly useless. As you say; she killed 7 babies, tried to kill 6 more, severely disabled another… who cares if she is a psychopath or if another terminology applies. She is evil persona fide, luckily will put away for life, and everyone else who obstructed the various docs and others trying to bring this to light needs to now also be held to account, fired, investigated - the whole nine yards.
@@paulroberts7544 With all due respect, but are you serious? Have you heard all the evidence they have incl the various rambling notes etc found at her home. No doubt she is guilty. She stalked the babies’ parents on Facebook.
most accurate analyse of lucy letby so far (especially on the denial aspect). i've seen this occur so much in my family, mainly from my mother exhibiting similar denial stances while inflicting harm on her children, she believes she is doing the best for them and has a god complex, always viewing that she is innocent and pure - never believing that there is anything wrong with her. these types of women are very much in denial of everything, especially their own self image. jealousy and victim playing are common, along with pathological lying.
I’m pretty sure she knew exactly what she was doing and why. She just choses not to share that with the world.
In her note to self she said she had done nothing wrong then said she did it on purpose and deserved to die. Arguing with herself what’s that about? Extremely lonely despite appearances. Her only confidante was herself. No surprise she ain’t talking now.
Very interesting analysis. There is something about her handwritten notes that is very eerie.
Professor Persaud is a brilliant teacher and outstanding clinician with an encyclopaedic knowledge of psychiatry.
This girl in my opinion has un diagnosed autism
Has gon through life under intense control of her parents her parents even to the point of becoming a nurse to save babies as she has always been aware that she was herself a premature baby and nurses saved her..I believe she smothered in her parents attention and expectations..was never given time to process her own thoughts and inability to recognise her own desires as human being growing up ...just did what her parents wanted her to do as a carreer right the way up to them financially enabling her to buy a home near hospital and she knew no different and in my opinion has never felt like she had other options
I feel her parents approach was intense control from birth
They wanted the perfect image of their child going uni becoming a heroic nurse etc in order to boast and gain satisfaction of this perfect woman they have raised
She is very Internally resentful and the idea of upsetting her parents would be Hell as she has been smothered controlled and moulded..the choices she made about what she did to those poor innocent babies gave her power and options..something she has never experienced throughout her whole life
God bless the families of those little precious angels ❤xxx
Dr Raj Persaud... Wasn't this guy sacked for dishonesty ? seems the saying 'takes one to know one' is true..
Probably has to take any work he can get now .
Sanctioned for plagiarism
Yes, he was. And guess what, I once had the misfortune to rent a house from his grasping mother in Mill Hill, London in 1993. At the end of the tenancy, as she didn't want to return the deposit, she charged 50 pounds to replace a 1 pound shower curtain that had a bit of mould growing on it. She was an absolute disgrace, just like her son. Totally grasping, total liars and fake people. They give immigrants a bad name.
@@millaao9208now that is interesting!
I think she is innocent
Couldn’t disagree more, she did get pleasure(a kick) out of inflicting pain to the parents of the deceased children she murdered. She followed up on them sent them cards and get a thrill out of their devastated grief. If she couldn’t have a family no one else should.
It's now all unravelling that Lucy Letby is inosent !
Innocent. The "tragedy" was poor management and environmental conditions. Try psychoanalysing her accusers: Jayram, Brearey and co.
Her laugh and smile are creepy on these pictures as the truth is out there.
Narcissisum is a major feature and is shown quite clearly in her control with an element of control.
It amazes me to see how many people in the comment section are going so easy on her and some even defending this monster. Guess why? Strange world were living in today.
not surprising, I saw many people defending Darlie Routier when overwhelming evidences were against her. In this case, obviously she is the murderer but no evidence directly pointed to her guilt. Her defenders can argue that no one saw her injecting air/insulin/excessive milk into the babies' systems as there was no cctv
Yes. Same with the postmasters trial. Some even defending them. What next!
I thought Raj Persue had been struck off for practising as a psychologist and psychiatrist because he blatantly wrote papers using his students papers.
Not struck off but suspended by the GMC - In 2008, Persaud was suspended from practising psychiatry for three months by the General Medical Council, having admitted being guilty of nine cases of plagiarism. He subsequently left his consultant position with the South London and Maudsley NHS trust(Wikipedia)
This isn’t aging well…. Another gob off for profit.
In my opinion, she was jealous of those families, and the fact that she didn't have an ideal life, or she wasn't at a stage in her life where she thought she would be at her age. She reminds me of a female incel whose angry at other couples because she's without. She wanted to kill those babies to hurt the families, not because she had a problem with babies or had a god complex. Ive come across a number of nurses in my life who've all been self absorbed and often sadistic. There's no empathy or care. It makes me wonder why they're attracted to this type of profession.
What doesn't match this opinion is that she has been spotted near babies that were already in an emergency situation, just doing nothing and watching them die. Almost as if watching a movie. She has a kick from death, grief and seeing the families suffering. Babies were the ideal ones for her to get it. She would follow the families on social media months after death, keep registers, etc.
This case is now being looked again as there are said to be good reasons to believe the conviction is unsafe. (September 2024).
I don't believe that a psycopath would write 'I am evil'. As incriminating as it was, this note also revealed a (hidden) sense of morality. In my opinion, what caused her to act on these babies can be found somewhere in these things : jealousy, envy, depression, self-hatred, fear (of aging and being single), desesperation, projection, emotional unbalance, narcissism, munchausen, thirst for excitement, desire for power/control (after a whole life of overparenting), etc. Feel free to add.
Those scribbled notes are definitely going to be studied in detail by psychiatrists.
Of course you could write those notes as a psychopath! They are not a sign of remorse. She has not shown any of that in any other occasion. We are talking here of a person who repeatedly caused harm and death to possible 30 babies!!!! She wrote down the fact that she is evil. It does not express remorse.
She is very cold, calculating and manipulative. Do not take something that she wrote on the "face value". Her brain works very differently than normal people.
I’m not getting the delineation between “psychopath” and “god complex” here. They sound like the same exact thing. There’s no way Letby isn’t a psychopath.
No one on the unit said Letby was an "exceptional" nurse though, did they?
They reckon she was highly praised, according to the news anyway.
...and that is relevant, because?
prosecution these days work on passion rather than evidence and this is what happened to Asta Jauskauskiene who was also found guilty of murder despite not even being at the murder which is not contested by the police and with absolutely no evidence during trial which connected her to the murder only fabricated evidence which if it was chalenged by the defence would have fallen apart...the poor mother of three was convicted of murder and is currently doing 24 years and yet is innocent...Cardiff university has worked on her case for four years and has not seen one bit of evidence which connects her to the crime....its a justice system on its knees and judges often make up evidence during trial which they should not....
Maybe hospitals should rethink putting female nurses in premature baby care units.
98% of female nurses are caring empathetic people.
Such a comprehensive psychological analysis 👌
Dr Raj you made such as good point about code blue junkie as she kept resus notes in her home
That's why not reaching for the pitchforks is important (like alot of people in the comments); let's try and understand what is happening and prevent this human behaviour from developing in the future.
Another failure of our society, not identifying Lucy's symptoms and helping her.
You cannot help ppl with NPD or sociopaths or psychopaths or for that matter serial killers they have to be stopped. They are not curable the limbic system is wired wrong as they can't be part time or sometime NPD.
Great work! And that guy at the end saying "I do not consent" is very important for people to see, hear, understand, and realise that is exactly what we all need to be saying whenever we see an agenda being announced that affects us adversely -- the elites *need* our consent, believe it or not; and they usually get it by us remaining silent. Our silence *is* regarded as consent. Every time.
Well-reasoned and presented. I also don't believe Letby is a psychopath. But there has been a relative absence of any discussion about whether she is on the autistic spectrum. She was an unusual woman, in that she seems to have hoarded all kinds of paper documents (which later proved self-incriminating in some cases) and "found it hard to throw anything out". She also appears to have had few if any romantic relationships, but became obsessed with this one male doctor. The scrawled notes the police found in her diary suggest that she suffered from rumination and repetitive, self-hating thoughts.
The feature that stands out to me across a number of cases is the sense of an extremely egotistical and immature person who seems remarkably inept in relationships and in aspects of life outside their profession generally. I could be wrong, but at the moment they seem to me to be something like the hole left behind after a huge ego has quietly burned out and they've collapsed inwards under their own weight.
Stop calling her a nurse. She was a demon
Narcissistic tendencies / personality disorders - what are your thoughts Dr Raj?
Excellent commentary as always from Dr Persaud.
All these are interesting theories. I lean toward the code blue theory because it indicates a compulsive disorder. But here is a much simpler theory that I'd like to suggest: plain old jealousy. She was a plain looking, single woman without a husband and family of her own. She could have just been jealous of the happiness she saw surrounding the parents-to-be, and wanted to spoil the joy by killing the new baby. Jealousy is one of the most toxic and noxious of all human emotions.
Jealousy could have been the initial motive for sure, then she may have experienced some sort of weird thrill, triggering a compulsion, or simply learnt that it got her the attention she craved, so a sort of behavioural reinforcement.
@@samboonstra471 I agree.
You have said it word for word what i have been thinking but there are many nurses without kids and are probably lonely as hell but would never kill like she has,
We all have said at some point im going to murder that person when i see them but it is empty words but she actually did murder which says a lot about her
she was 25 when arrested. a normal age to be single and childlesss
If she's 33 now and arrested five years ago, I believe she was 27, but you're right, that's not that old to be childless. I guess we'll never really know what motivated her, but when behaviour seems incomprehensible, it always makes sense to look at the secondary gain, and the secondary gain here definitely seemed to be attention, and her own diaries communicated a fear she would never get married, have kids etc Like I say, we'll probably never know, I just don't go with the "born a psychopath" explanation.I think that's the easy explanation because it avoids having to ask some hard questions, but I don't feel it fits. Pretty much any of the other theories put forward could fit. @@manalab1628
The motivation for people like this is usually power. Such people are secretly weak and cowardly at heart, which they repress, and are drawn to occupations such as health care (at all levels), social work and police work that give them access to vulnerable people upon whom they can prey while being outwardly regarded as 'good guys'.
I have a feeling that Letby won't kill herself as she has not accepted responsibility for her actions and has denied killing and harming those babies, this is why she didn't go to the Dock when sentence was passed, because in her eyes she's done nothing wrong so why should she face the Judge and families and be sentenced for crimes she hasn't done, this is the top and bottom of it! When someone is in denial that they haven't done something wrong they hide away and won't face the responsibilities or the punishment, and this is exactly what Letby has done. Hopefully there will be a Judge lead investigation into the whole management team who ignored seven senior Consultants and the facts that babies were dying and being harmed on multiple occasions in a very short space of time and that the pattern was one particular nurse was always on duty! A lot of management in the NHS have no medical or nursing training or experience, so how on earth can people with no experience manage and run hospitals? The whole NHS service needs an urgent Government review and overhaul. Just one last thing, Letby did write in one of her notes that she was frightened that she would never marry or have any children of her own, how right she was, but why did she write this , did she already know very early on before she was caught that she was going to end up dying in prison?????
She has achieved worldwide attention, kept her motives to herself, can play mind games with psychiatrists, retained the adoration of her parents, is protected in prison every day as a special unique at risk person.
I don't understand the technical psychiatric terms, but if she is any or all of the pathologies conjectured, she is in a perfect controlling position to satisfy all her needs.
So I don't think she will kill herself, & would predict she will become a Star in her in own mind, & perhaps for her fellow inmates...& as happily warped as she could ever be in comfort for life.
The only at least half-honorable deed left for her in this world of morals and mortals would be a clinical kind of suicide (maybe by eating razor blades to feel the pain she inflicted on the innocent babies) with a concise note left behind expressing her guilt, deep regrets and prayers to ask some higher entity for forgiveness.
I think she liked the power of life and death.
Sorry..she said it herself that she is evil…and she is.
She did
Finally (!) a more nuanced understanding of these horrible crimes.
The key lies in one of her well publicised scrawled 'notes to Self' and it's right under our noses and nobody is looking at it as the key clue that it is: in her note she rambled on self-pityingly, going on about how she'll never get married, have a lovely family or have children because she's "not good enough". Whatever ideas, fears or feelings she has on that entire issue, it sounds like it's profoundly linked to other areas of her psychology, a sad premature conviction that was disturbingly deep-rooted and something that was returned to in her dark insecure times of self-loathing and so forth so that she'd ingrained that conviction deep in her bones, repeating it like a mantra. That very particular entry in her diary, notes and letters is what the psychiatrists really need to focus on. I personally sense that it's the key to the right door, if any HONEST and insightful answers are ever to be directly offered from Letby herself. Why on Earth would a healthy, reasonably attractive woman with a good job have totally convinced herself she'll never get married, have children or have a family and then write those juvenile, immature notes to herself?! I think that's their first genuinely helpful clue, despite how tedious, complex and time consuming all further study will be.
Agreed. I commented along the same lines above (as a counterargument to a comment purporting she had no reason to be jealous to the parents) but arguing from the "premise of teddy bears" since I gave her the 'benefit of doubt' she expressed her fears of getting a life in prison or something and for that reason not ever being able to have a family. But yes: the "not good enough" is interesting. Yet it might indirectly refer to the prospect of incarceration without saying it - and without saying anything else either.
Thank you doctor I couldn’t agree more with you. It is sad that people like you didn’t stand up earlier with their professional opinions based on their clinical knowledge.
How would one describe a person like that if not a psychopath?
Make a degree in psychology and find out, bimbo
These theories are all based on her absolute and unequivocal guilt which has recently (as of September 2024), come under serious question. If she were truly and absolutely guilty psychologists and psychiatrists could put forward a limitless number of theory's as to why she did it, but we would be no closer to finding out why she did it. The problem now is that serious new evidence has come to light on a number of levels which may suggest she may not be guilty of murder after all in which case all these theories are even more irrelevant.
Something that no psychologist would agree, but there are people who are demon possessed. This might have been a case
I think so too.
The vermin certainly belongs to the "Bad Seed" family. Which is the spawn of the demon.
This is unfathomable, and dismissed by many as poppycock.
Devil incarnate 😬
I agree very much
This is a highly convoluted set of theories. All this without examining the most obvious causes of the deaths of these babies. Perhaps the court should have looked at the sewage issues in the water and the lack of equipment needed before accusing nurses. Also the two doctors who were at odds with Letby because she criticised them. These matters need considering before sentencing a young woman to life imprisonment. The death of babies is of course a highly emotional issue and this case seems to be based on emotional grounds rather than fact, with all condolences to the parents.
How does one instance of sewage cause babies to die over the course of an entire year?
She's definitely a phycopath if she had done this kind of murder in America she would have got the death penalty what a pity they abolished it in this country.
How did you diagnose her?
How is the death penalty a punishment. Why do you think she's on suicide watch. They want to die so they can free themselves from their sentences. Killing them is setting them free. Are you dumb.
@@dpayO2 cleaver instinct
its on its way out in the States, even the school shooter who killed 14 didn't get the death penalty. It's a shambles over there, look at California- over 700 on death row and not a single execution in almost 20 years with PA a close second.
I do not believe this theory at all...
We need a serious discussion about whether to restore the death penalty for horrific crimes such as this.
Death would be the easy way out . Let them live and suffer
I definitely agree. Waist of taxpayers money keeping her alive.
A man was jailed for beating and raping a woman but turned out he was innocent
The problem with the death penalty is it's totally irrevocable - if some new information was later obtained that somehow mitigated or even partially exonerated her, there's no way to reverse that punishment. Could be a brain tumour, unusual brain anatomy, severe childhood abuse, personality disorder, who knows. While there's no reason to ever release her, it's wrong to execute someone unless you have direct, incontrovertible evidence combined with a signficant wait time (in the US that's usually 14 years) to allow additional evidence to trickle in (even if it doesn't). As soon as you base an entire case on circumstantial evidence, you don't have that. If you execute someone before allowing additional information to come forth, you're denying people the right to appeal.
Many people may and do want to see the severest punishment visited upon her (I would be one of the most zealous in that regard) but the issue is, if you want to see that happen, you've got to get all your ducks lined up in a row. You can't allow a crack in the facade to let any light in, and weaken your cause. Unfortunately, circumstantial evidence cases will never meet the standard of proof necessary to allow a death penalty without major risks likely to arise from strong scrutiny of the case over several decades.
As long as you're not the one being framed by dutiful police officers, it's easy to have this discussion.
I believe she is guilty but we both know there was no direct evidence or a confession... slippery slope.
You think it's easy being locked up for decades only because they give you a proper bed and a window.