“NHS Management CANNOT Be Trusted” How Lucy Letby Became Britain’s Worst Child Serial Killer
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- Опубліковано 30 сер 2023
- Lucy Letby was treated a as victim and people who raised concerns had to apologise to the nurse who ended up being convicted of murdering seven babies at the Countess Of Chester hospital.
In this week’s Crime Suspect Peter Bleksley is joined by Dewi Evans, a retired consultant paediatrician who helped to convict Letby with his medical evidence, clinical psychiatrist Dr Raj Persaud, former Detective Inspector Neil Jones who helped to bring previous nurse killer Beverly Alitt to justice and TalkTV correspondent who covered the case in detail Holly Hudson.
#Lucyletby #crime #crimesuspect
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The management of the hospital definitely cannot be trusted and they need to be brought to trial.
How many hospital “Managers” are not Narcissists or haven’t got Highly Problematic Narcissm traits? Answer: Not many.
After what has happened, fancy going into that place to give birth?
@@JeVoudrais12 they may have a cluster or one in there, though, diagnosed or not. Who hasn't met someone with a haughty, arrogant attitude that persists, a lack of empathy, etc?
We've all worked with difficult people and managers that were obstructive or difficult or lazy in some way, etc
@@JeVoudrais12It's also one of the hardest personality disorders to detect as they are so sure of themselves and their actions.
As a student 23 years ago. A nurse tried to get me to wrap an IV line around my hand and squeeze. This clears the air bubbles and is extremely dangerous. I said no. She tried to fail my nursing course. Fast forward 15 years, I worked in A&E and I refused to fudge waiting times to 3 hours 58 minutes when someone had been there for 8 hours plus. They brought in the hospital management team and I was fired. That's how much honesty means in the NHS. I left and never went back. I would never return to the NHS I'd rather spread manure on fields.
The nhs is a corrupt bullying hell hole no wonder why no one wants to work in it
@@kevbillows7113 Yes it is. Much like the police force.
ANY HR person who protected this woman should be fired immediately!
Jailed you mean!.
And jailed 😮
Its the consultants who wrongly accused Lucy Letby of murdering babies who should be fired and prosecuted. The discredited Dewi Evans should also be prosecuted
NHS hospital 'managers' MUST be brought to book over this. They refused to listen to genuine concerns that were raised by competent and caring staff about 'irregular and unexpected' deaths. When will we see them in court? Just another fine example of senior management bullshit that resulted in the avoidable deaths of defenceless babies. Overpaid senior managers who don't want any bad publicity, and who only care about their coveted salary and pensions.
They should be also in jail
Yep, too many of them with their own vested interests. This is endemic across all organisations now, we seem unable to run any large public business nowadays without consultants and ‘managers’ paid vast salaries, people who know nothing about the organisations they run, all serving their shareholders and getting a fat pay out when they move on or retire. Bring public services back into the public domain, we had a great transport system once, not now, but then People need to get out of their cars and I doubt that will ever happen unless the high cost of petrol or other charges freeze all but the rich out of owning and using one. The NHS needs matrons back running wards too, and a shedload more money, we unfortunately have a shedload more people to service now than we did even 30 years ago, many of whom don’t pay any taxes to support it, and people living longer.
This is rife amongst all trusts - we need change for accountability- look into social services guys
@@user-xi1br6ur1qyou said it!!! 👏
The thing is Letby had everyone fooled as she seemed so normal and good on the outside and not excusing anyone but management will need live with thier mistakes, it's absolutely horrendous what she did and still feels unbelievable that a nurse could ever do such a thing. We have three nurses in my close family and sister a nurse saying she should have the death penalty. Letby will have plenty time to think about her guilt. It's the families and her own parents l feel for it will be impossible to believe thier only one a murderer
It's sickening knowing NHS management are partly responsible for some of the baby deaths. I do hope they are held accountable but I won't hold my breath 🙁
The NHS is an Intl joke.
And consider... ANYthing but to f8nd two NHS doctors guilty of drugging thwir three young children when theyre os on holidays
With you all the way
LUCY WAS THE SCAPEGOAT IN A COVER UP BY MANAGEMENT & THE DOCTORS!!
@@soloman6156what? 😂
@@soloman6156 evidence?
My heart goes out to the parents of the poor babies she killed/maimed 😢
I feel exactly the same. I was upset earlier as there seems to be some who don’t think she’s guilty and I couldn’t help but think it’s another insult to every one of those parents who are left to pick up the pieces. Disrespectful but that’s just my own opinion
I don’t think it’s disrespectful to think she didn’t do it. That’s the opinion they have formed based on their own evaluation and they are entitled to their own personal opinion. I believe she murdered babies based on all the evidence provided. But i don’t believe people intend ro insult the parents, and they are entitled yo an opinion especially based on the evidence.
You don’t need to be “qualified” to conclude a person is sadistic psychopath, when that person inflicts intense pain on tiny babies, and gets a thrill from the grief reaction of the parents. This pain was so intense it caused the babies to scream (not cry) in a manner not usual for these babies.
Repeatedly searching for the parents on line and rereading case notes, enabled the sadistic psychopath to relive the intense thrill
I think she would have passed standard psych tests tbh. She was good at hiding and knew what to say to make people think she cared.
She was complained about in 2015.
Let that sink in.
If the hospital had listened to the complainant, so many babies would be alive today.
The hospital and staff who ignored it, should face criminal charges.
The theory that the ‘clock was ticking’ is ludicrous.
She worked in a neonatal department. Babies are under 28 days old, and require the most care because there is a bigger risk of them dying.
That is the reason. Less chance of it being seen as out of the ordinary
She did it because she could.
The public are paying for these murderers.
It’s about time nurses had their childhood medical records given to hospitals if they inject themselves for gods sake. They should also be given psych tests as a prerequisite
Another great show 👏
I agree, plus…. Unpopular opinion: If she was a Black or Asian woman she would’ve been caught immediately
@@thehoneyeffectlol nice fantasy
Don’t you think those doctors are also to blame for the deaths. They were absolutely convinced she was murdering babies and didn’t go to the police because they might not be believed and might lose their jobs. Whatever made the doctors certain should also have made the police certain. Otherwise they couldn’t be certain.. As the management said, the doctors only had a gut feeling. Management possibly receive many malicious or mistaken complaints about innocent people. I’m sure the inquiry will make doctors, a consultant, management all look guilty of man slaughter, in addition to Letbys guilt.
My heart breaks for the parents. It's unfortunate she wasn't black or Asian, it wouldn't have gotten to two babies extremely sad. 😢
@@thehoneyeffectSincerely hope that wouldnt be the case (for the reason of skin) but could ofc.
Maybe Im too optmiistic.
I want any murderer identified quickly for appropriate reasons ofc. ❤
Corporate manslaughter charges might make managers fully aware if their responsibility. 🤔
Indeed!
This psychiatrist needs to read up on his facts as both Letby & Allitt were in there early to mid-20s, not 30s, so considered to be in their fertile prime, not 'running out of time' at all.
It's the old cliché isn't it.
But there could have been other reasons for which babies she selected to suffer.
It's entirely possible she targeted some of the babies because the parents could have reminded her of people from school or university who she didn't like.
Or if she spotted another nurse receiving a compliment from a family member, this could have made her want to harm their baby and them.
All that can be accurately said is her crimes gave her an emotional payoff, we don't know if it was:
Excitement
Attention
Satisfaction
Revenge
Status enhancement
Sympathy
Opportunity to show off her skills
Making herself both relevant and unforgettable
Or something else.
But she got something out of it for sure and not just the harm to the babies, also dealing with the parents at their most vulnerable, in the raw shock of the moment.
She wanted to be right in the centre of all that suffering so they couldn't forget her or possibly o😊ver look her.
*Please ignore the accidental graphic I can't remove it.
@flowerjpotter1629 absolutely agree with everything you've said & other experts have said we may never know her motive ... that can only come from her. But as she's been so highly manipulative her entire life, her words could mean nothing!
Beverley Allitt, whilst displaying a lot of the same ACTIONS...ways of killing etc, i think is a different animal to Letby. Allitt being moreso in the realm of what used to be named Munchasen by Proxy, and also Minchassens, she used to harm herself for attention.
Lucy letby is an outright SADIST.
I cant recall which expert said this, but i recall someone saying that until 12 or 13 allut was well adjusted and that they think that at that time thwy were subject to dreadful significant abuse. After that, Beverley changed and developed her MO of...not being able to ask fpr protection, comfort and care for the REAL hurt and she developed the Fictitious Syndrome tp fulfill her needs.
I wonder if lucy letby had a similar experience whereby, she suffered thru a viplent or degrading experience perhaps sexual abuse, and th8s has driven her psychology to develop beyond basic psychopathy into something simmering and unstoppably into something wholly dark
1) CCTV
2) Two turned keys 20 ft apart
3) No one allowed in nursery ward alone
Personality profiles, multiple reference checking etc
@@fliss362 Needs more
It's been said before and it will be said again Get rid of management bring back Matrons who know there wards and can intercept possible problems. Also stop out contracting things like cleaning services, bring it all under the hospital jurisdiction.
👍👍👍
Agree
Many of the senior management were trained nurses before being managers. Matrons can be every bit as bad .
That’s very true , my father in law ( now deceased 20 years ) was in hospital and he had a go at some nurses for ignoring a patient that was in distress, trouble breathing etc really panicking! they were just stood around talking even though he kept pressing the emergency button for assistance he had to shout at them to get them to move themselves!
They were very sarcastic and off with him after that , and said don’t expect us to rush after you should you need it ! How callous are some people!
I guess they are in all walks of life.@@alisonhall4465
What's a "there" ward?
Dont blame an unconscious resentment, she knew exactly what she was doing and she did it fully consciously
Well said, she truly did
because she was bored? That's what I've heard.
@@Paul-dv4dr because she craved attention and adulation.
@@janicebillington1640 yes u r spot on bored doesn't sound right
@@janicebillington1640 and friendship?
The judge had every right to just allude to her dreadful cruelty. One doesn’t have to be ‘trained’ to see it.
It appears that they have to be “trained” in order to recognise “cruelty” when we victim of male is female but NOT when victim of female is male.
Agreed & the psychiatrist is so far up his own arse that he can't get the facts correct when describing Letby's age at the time of the killings!
'BRITAIN'S WORST CHILD KILLER? WHO IS THAT? MYRA HINDLEY? THE JUDGE DID NOT FIND LUCY GUILTY - THE JURY DID!!!
Re Dr Raj. Resusitation explanation. Except she apparantly inserted herself into grief of parents. Her Dr 'friend' had been a nurse I believe so probably had affinity there. Judge had every right. He had listened to all information. More than we know about.
the 'evidence' against lucy was circumstantial & there were no witnesses to her so called crimes!!
the guilty verdict was conjecture not one made on real facts!
the babies deaths could have been accidental &/or coincidental!@@Marigold502
Facing a law suit over an alledged female harrassment clearly has more weight than facing the consequences for the death of babies.
Jesus said to his Dad ''forgive them, they do not know what they do'' and his Dad forgave them.
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at here. Female harassment is more rampant than female nurses killing babies. So yes, I can see why without hard evidence, whistleblowers were shown no importance.
I’m not saying that they ended up taking too long to take action which could have prevented lives, but I’m sick of butt hurt men making this some anti-feminist case study of how women get it too easy in the workplace. Wake up, tiny man.
@@DameEdna42 But not the baby 🤔
Better to have a millstone hung about one's neck and cast into the sea , than to bring harm to any of these little ones .
Beverly Ellott sought to be the saviour and her desire wasn’t specifically to kill. Lucy’s behaviour suggests she wanted parents to lose their babies as she enjoyed the aftermath as much as the cold blue.
Our institutions are shameful. Trust is gone. These execs can jump ship but they can't hide.
they all need to be charged after they where made aware of the first few deaths they allowed this to continue it makes me sick that they've been allowed to get away with this
Appalling management from management perpetually looking for cover!
I don’t think Dr Raj is right that she was a code blue junkie, because she also seemed to get off on the grief of the parents and wanted to be involved in that. That does sound more like a sadist - as the judge said.
Not to be a smarty pants but isn't that pretty obvious and expected? That a murderer would look up the family of the person they murder whether straight away or couple years down the line . Seems kinda obvious pal.
One would suggest curiosity as an obvious reason.
Idk to me that's obvious and expected.
@kahyui2486 well you're not coming across as a smarty pants because you've missed the point. If someone was just interested in the thrill of the emergency situation as Dr Raj is suggesting then they wouldn't take morbid delight from the grief of the parents after the child had died.
@@AMBKwhy does it have to be one or the other? why can't she gain pleasure from both?
@y2ksurvivor Dr Raj is criticising the judge for calling her a sadist. In my view the judge is right, she is a sadist and she isn't only interested in the emergency scenario, she is getting off on the grief after the event - that is sadistic. If you listened to what he said and read what I wrote, you wouldn't be asking this question.
I'm honestly not interested in her motives....sick to death of trying to work out the thinking of sadistic individuals in general ... thinking of the agony those poor babies experienced enrages me. Stick Letby and her like in a very deep hole...walk away and forget.
@@eskimo3622 My dear...i'm in my 60s and i remember the Allitt case well enough.... there was a lengthy inquiry back then...with plenty of 'lessons to be learned' outlined ... one of which was improved communication within the NHS. Money however has again won...the Hospital heads would rather prevent lawsuits than listen to the truth. In my view they're as psychopathic as Letby. What's new?... the 'uncomfortable understanding' and 'patterns of behaviour' you refer to ....are irrelevant...the Dr's called it quite early... suspicious medical anomalies in the babies deaths...together with a quick check of the staff rota...end of. This case is obviously novel to you..... but not to me. Throw as many diagnoses at her as you like , munchausens, psychotic blah blah blah...a psychopath is a psychopath at the end of the day...they never change...they're never understood...B O R I N G.
you don't get it though. understanding why people act the way they do helps understand the criminal psyche better to help in the prevention of future crimes.
There are a lot of people like that. It's scary how many people with troubled psyche
@@juliad368 There has never been a larger number of forensic psychiatrists, psychologists etc than there are now.... every other programme is about criminal profiling ..... you can read as much as you like about the seeds of psychopathy....is it due to lack of nurturing as a child?... head injuries?....in utero damage?..or could it be drugs? blah blah.... i was a psychi nurse for 3 decades .... a sadistic adult is a sadistic adult...their personalty traits have been formed long ago... you aren't changing them ....i hate to break it to you...but 'therapy' has ZERO effect on them and short of locking them up on diagnosis (that's illegal my dear)..there is no way to prevent them acting out their rage. ...believe me i do 'get' your theory..i just don't agree with it's efficacy
Motive is important, because it is an important piece in proving guilty of murder!! All these shows are obsessed with proving there was a motive because otherwise it is hard to believe that this nurse did it because there is literally no physical evidence that it was her
The NHS is harbouring people in managerial positions paid huge amount of money that have no idea how to manage. These managers protect their jobs and the NHS, then dismiss anyone who tries to unsettle their comfortable life.
Spot on, sadly 😡
I agree with the tories we need to privatise the NHS
Piranhas?
Disgusting that she's shown happy when those poor babies are now dead at her supposed caring glad there's someone higher that seen it all she won't get away with it nothing miisse's his gaze justice for wrong doing will be brought! A person will reap what they have sown...." life for life" when unrepentant! deserve such those poor babies had their life taken away! Psalm94 verse 9 how awful for the parents of those poor babies! It won't go unpunished!
I'm terrified witless. I'm old. Eventually, I'm going to have to go into a care home. Is there a sweet kind nurse on duty who is going to kill me?
Not if you kill her first. What have you got to lose? They’re not going to put you in jail, are they? Lol 😂
My grandma is in a bupa care home, I visit her weekly, and she is always so happy, those carers are the sweetest, Grandma will often call and say "oh don't cone today love its "x" birthday and I'll be in the hall" always doing things and you can tell the staff genuinely care. I was so worried before she went in.. but now I am more reassured than ever. Depending on the carehome, they can be great. (Avoid any run by Indians, residents are nothing more than ££ - I know that's mad racist but it's a true observation, my husband is a surveyor and has been asked some shocking things by these people, many times)
NHS hospitals I have a whole different experience with.. my son has Cystic Fibrosis, so we spend A LOT of time at Watford Hospital.. the amount of corruption I have witnessed in 3 years alone is shocking. They(managers) literally steal donations and leave the wards to rot.
Are you certain you will need a carehome? ❤
These indiviuals are so rare you are more likley to be struck by lightning . Keep faith with the good people .
Probably.
No there is ones like me who care❤
NHS management were equally responsible in the deaths of the babies due to criminal negligence and ignoring of all the direct complaints they received. Not just a disgrace, but highly paid irresponsible, incompetent management!
Who indeed had this irrational love for Lucy Letby and wished to protect her at the cost of the lives of so many babies? Several need to pay legally (prison?) for this from the management. Definitely top of the list is the one who asked that the complainants apologise to the criminal, without even thorough investigation and protection monitoring systems set up for the babies?!
Maybe Letby was trying to stop them
How were they so ignorant of what she used to kill them? Firstly the Pathology teats show abnormal insulin & secondly she would use what's available ie) air/milk/insulin to overdose them.
Absolutely!!!!!!!
Breathtakingly defies belief!!
6 years to stop a killer, yet management take action against employees who under perform with months in most companies.
Suspicious eyh how evil protects evil
Persaud's theory that she got off, not in the act of killing, but in 'saving' her victims fails to explain her repeated assaults on infants who 'failed' to die after the first attack.🤷
Persaud is clueless. That's why he's always on television.
@@rogkeista1 That's what happens to people who are found guilty of plagiarizing other medics' work and chucked off of Richard & Judy back in the 90s - he's an annoying, sneaky little pipsqueak!
Well , I know a few sad saps who come alive when there is a death and they are first at the wake and funeral, 2 people, a man & a woman , they don't know each other and live miles apart so not a group effort , they are really sick & pathetic and nobody sees through them. Like some morbid buzz or something, everyone thinks these people are kind & caring , if only they could the excitement of these Gouls when they hear of a death. Kind & Caring my eye.
She also took medical records
of the dead babies home. So she could review the dead babies files. The police found those files along with the confession note and post it notes. It is like Ted Bundy returning to the scene of the crimes. All hospitals around the world should have hidden cameras to catch these crazy people. Then they should be taken off the ward, fired and jailed.
NHS Needs Complete Shake up..!!
Sadism to me means someone who enjoys causing suffering.
I don't understand why people are reluctant to say she is.
abit of white washing because self media execs self image and inability to target other groups of people since the most evil looks like lucy in recent conciousness
Absolutely disgusting 😡 Alarms were raised early on ...poor infants!
Agree. Most people are pretty pathetic when it comes to caring for others, and most often it’s in hospitals!
@@deepblack2193 The above post suggests, 'certain NHS Management weren't to be trusted when serious complaints were brought to them, i.e. babies could of been saved'!
Management were told for 2yrs, despite serious concerns raised by Dr. Ravi Jayaram consultant, Paediatrician, Countess Chester Hospital?
Dr. Jayaram was even told to apologize to Letby for raising concerns?
There will always be criminals and psychopaths in society, however, Hospital Doctors brought serious concerns to management about Lucy Letby! Subsequently, those mangers have retired?
The law needs to change for victims, innocent babies, their families and honest NHS staff, absolute injustice! 😡
Four Pediatricians went to Management with their serious concerns regarding Lucy Lettby...i.e. concerns were raised which suggests, infant lives could of been saved😢.
Corrupt.
@@chickedee1085 I fully agree, I think their currently asking for a full public enquiry? Let's hope so 🤞
Britain's worst child serial killer was Amelia Dyer (hanged 1896). She too was a hospital trained Nurse who took up the practise known as 'baby farming'. During the course of her career she murdered several hundred babies.
Lucy Letby murdered 7.
They said in modern times
@@Primrose37823 Not in the title, nor until 3:13
@@CODA834 Not all of them.
@@Primrose37823define modern…130 years give or take is modern considering England as a modern nation is a thousand years old…🤔
They are 8nvestigating for more babies that could have been killed by LUCYFER .a criminal remains a criminal whether it is one or 400 lives that they😢😮 take...
Dewi Evans presented himself to police to be an "expert" as he had a business offering his services as such. He was out of the game for 15yrs and his "expertise" was not in neonatal care and his only neonatal experience was from early in his career and was brief. He also previously had his evidence dismissed as unreliable and useless.
So what are you saying? He got it wrong ?
@@JaneboG what do you think?
The autopsies found 6 of the 7 babies died of natural causes.
Years later the professional expert witness opined that the autopsies were wrong and that in fact, he thought the babies were murdered.
This entire case - the 5 year invstigation, the court case and the subsequent investigation and witch hunt of the managers that defended Lucy - is based upon a VERY week premise.
There may not have been any murders.
@@JaneboG I think what he is saying is that bloke talks bollocks.
Another way of wording it, is that he is an unreliable witness.
So what does that mean to you? Letby is innocent? Let me go get the world's smallest violin and play it for her.
@@y2ksurvivorshe possibly could be I’m not fully convinced of her guilt
No surprises here then! NHS administration should have people with medical knowledge. Sadly, they are more interested in DEI. What a very strange generation we now have.
Need the death penalty within a year 😢
Her doctor friend was not just a friend.
Letby went on a nice cosy trip to London with him - allegedly.
Like many others im not fully convinced of her guilt...things dont sit right.
The main thing was the pressure put on the jury by the judge over the verdict as members of the jury also had doubts.
Im also suspicious of the ward and the theory she may be the victim of "gaslighting"as ive not heard a single story about good working conditions,team cohesion and all ive heard is the NHS is a cesspit of toxicity and a horrible place to work.
Full of incompetent staff,cover-ups and blame culture.
To me there was a lack of physical evidence pointing directly to her other than coincidence and circumstantial.
She never admitted her guilt and i dont believe she had a fair trial.
Ok then, why did she choose to lie over 20 times in court under oath if she was innocent? An innocent person would have no reason or motive to lie.....
I've worked in NHS hospitals and seen alot of bullying and competition rather than bonding between staff, which is can be bad in the nursing profession. There is not sufficient support for those who experience mental health issues and they become pariahs that everyone avoids. Between that, the long hours and the expectations that when traumatic events happen you just suck it up and get on with it, the so-called caring profession get through it by cutting off their emotions, or they end up with PTSD. So there's that. Worst employer I ever had. But like others have pointed out, the vast majority of workers would never ever do something like this. There is not alot of point in speculating as to why someone does it - Im sure they could find a thousand excuses. Male nurses kill just as often, even though there are alot fewer of them around. Women who dont have children for whatever reason, should not yet again, be labelled as baby haters, because the vast majortiy arent, and there are baby hating parents out there too. The point is, to have better NHS safeguards in place to protect against such things happening, especially to the most vulnerable patients. And a better system so that staff aren't treated like factory robots and bullying or ostrasizing is dealt with seriously.
She knew that being evil is not something to be proud of, but the main message is this: POOR ME. I'm suffering, it's hard on me too. It's tough to be a baby killer (!). Poor me, I'm evil, poor me, I'm alone, I'll never have kids or marry, poor me, I hate myself.... do you really, bc you didn't harm yourself in any way, no, you hate your life, maybe but otherwise, the message is, POOR ME, period. And all this "hate", no matter what, even if she actually does have self hatred, this hatred is directed outward, toward the babies, bc you really must hate the babies in order to do what she's done.
Stupid thing is she could get boyfriend and marry and have kids
The only one in her graduation to not get a job within six months speaks volumes. There must have been early warning signs.
@@fliss362Especially since there is almost always a nursing shortage everywhere.
I love the presenter/ ex police detective, ive seen him a few times on programs hes so genuine and kind.
If you really want to know what made Lucy Letby commit murder check out the excellent Lucy Letby series created by HG Tudor. Lucy Letby a narcissist, with psychopathic and sadistic traits thirsted for control and other aims demanded by her narcissism, which plagued her whole life.
Yes this has helped me understand this a little bit.
Yes HG is always thorough in his analysis
I checked it out and it was, to use a word i dont often say, absolute bullshit. I should say absolute more often in future.
H G Tudor is himself a psychopath spewing non-stop intellectual diarrhea. Pure verbiage.
I have her down as satanic bloodline quite possibly her parents are to it would explain her total wickedness
They did Lucy dirty in the thumbnail lmao
The media has been ignoring NHS management for years, they have been destroying its own staff for decades, it was always going to affect patients we saw this coming.
I think they could have stopped her but Demon Lucy Letby is totally to blame
I was disappointed when. I heard the TikTok rumor of her being in hospital due to boiling sugar water was untrue. I can't help it. I have such a reaction to these poor babies being tortured. God help the parents. Their babies didn't deserve this. She was jealous and a sick sadist. Her poor parents didn't raise a daughter but a demon
I think the 'resentment' theory goes a long way to exlain Letby's motivation. She wrote that she would never marry or have a family and coupled with her targeting of twins and triplets, and having several attempts to kill them, this resentment appears to have been heightened with multiple births. She never cried over the murdered or disabled children (as a consequence of her attempts to murder them) she only ever cried about herself. I think she'd been thoroughly spoilt by her parents and she couldn't accept that the doctor with whom she was infatuated would not be her partner and father of her children.
Lucy Letby was tried at age 32/33. When the crimes were committed she was about 25. So the theory she was envious of many of these older mums does not stick here. Her own parents were older when they had her. It‘s a very complex case without a doubt.
You have missed the point.
How do you know the age of the mums ??? At 25 ad a woman I can confirm you want kids. Don’t be ridiculous
The original person hasn't missed the point
Its called projection and projective identification. I highly recommend HG Tudors Channel, as to what Lucy Letby is. And why.
Best to be careful! I had 3 month old twin babies, both with bronchiolitis. One could stay home with dad, the other had to go to hospital. I went from one to the other to breastfeed them, thanks to kind friends helping me with transport. I hated I could not stay with the one in hospital more. I suspected they thought I was a bad mum for not being with him most of the time. An odd, older nurse, I think the only one I saw there, said that the babies weren't anxious to be away from their mums, it was the mums who were the anxious ones, which I thought was a strange thing to say. I was trying to stay calm for my little boy, but he was so anxious. Once out of the oxygen tent, I could pull the oxygen cylinder close and have him in my arms to breastfeed and he became so relaxed from having been so fidgety. So what she said was rubbish. Even more odd and concerning was that once, when I came in, she said in a very joyful and excited way: "We nearly lost him, it was that the doctor was in the room." I was so utterly stunned that she would say something so serious in such a cheerful way, I was too shocked to ask what had happened. I can't believe that I never tried to find out. It was all too stressful travelling between babies. Glad he could go home again, away from that strange place with that scary nurse.
😳 chilling
You didn’t question why your baby nearly died?
Yes, totally agree, I could never understand why I did not question it! I think I had got too used to very strange staff in the NHS, apart from those that are obviously true gems. Too pleasing at the time and just too stunned and stressed!
I still don't understand why they don't have cameras in the neo natal wards ? When you have innocent babies who have no chance to speak for them selves or stand up for them selves camera protection should be there ... why do they not have baby cams on the cots/baby beds ect
Because babies are entitled to privacy too,
I had and lost a 24 weeker premature baby and i would not be happy with hospital videoing her at all times she deserved dignity and respect for her private parts.
She was in an incubator the full time and she was changes etc in there too.
I wouldn't be happy with people videoing my naked child.
Because nobody wants some random security looking at images of children with no clothes on!
Excellent show as always, covering a very sad crime xx
Poor mum's. One of the worst things that can happen to their lives too.
Mums. Apostrophe not needed..... Apostrophe only required when implying ownership ie: mum's hat, mum's coat etc....
I wish parents would never come to know about this brutality their newborns had to go thru. How can now they get over this pain all their lives😢?
Whatever happened to the management of the NHS Leeds general infirmary, and Stokes Mandesville?
The ones who overlooked Jimmy Saville's crimes because he was an investor in their hospital.
To a degree, Aren’t nurses trained to compartmentalise and separate themselves from the emotion of the job ? Otherwise how could you do job ?
I Couldn't do that job. It takes a certain kind of person. Nurses can be very stern and bossy. The NHS is now a Corporation. Profit matters. Its gone beyond Florence Nightingale. Its a career and a pension. Bring back Matron.
definitely not, compassion is one of the key principles of nursing
Well as a nurse yes because you become useless to your patient however it does affect us and the odd case truly becomes too much and you do cry with your patient or relatives but this is an exemption because for sake of patient or relatives
Yes they are and Drs are the proffesion with the highest level of psychopathic tendencies.
Is anyone surprised that someone diagnosing u with terminal cancer isn't emotionally sensitive. It's actually a good thing, lawyers, judges, surgeons and drs shouldn't feel much emotion.
If they do then they won't do a good job cos their jobs require 0 emotion and only rational thoughts.
There's studies out there suggesting people in these careers have high level of people with psychopath traits (not psychopathy) basically they have low emotion and little remorse.
Thats the myth, but the reality is that compassion runs out when noone shows you any.@@jesshargreaves4417
There should always be to nurses working in same room together around babys---
Who was blamed for the other deaths on that unit?
A good point there
Yep. She was blamed for 7 or THIRTY ONE!
I suspect the raw sewage did it, but ain't an expert. Oh, the massively understaffed unit, poor practice and dodgy lead paediatrician...
If you were innocent would you
Like to have to attend a lynch mob
Knowing that you've been Edited into
A Criminal . With no voice what so ever
How horrible would that be.
Not a shock about management. Worked as a health care on a ward, was getting bullied by a sister. Myself and a couple of others were to. Not only that but some staff shouldn't be doing their jobs as they are obviously not init for the care. Unfortunately for me because management tried to blame it on my mental health I'd had enough so I left. I had worked in a care home prior to the hospital and I wish I never went there. I'm not working now suffering anxiety because of what I went through. To many people turn a blind eye in hospital and there care isn't there.
You can't trust anyone in authority these days people should remember that and that of all the recent cases of ppl who were in a position of trust, the old saying still rings true till this day, trust no one.
Looks like you invited the wrong consultant. Read this:
"It is quite apparent that the quality of the scientific evidence (in this case) is deficient and scientifically unfounded.
For example, Dr Evans’ primary assertion is that some of the infants were harmed by air embolism, where air was deliberately injected into a vein, or through the stomach.
Peculiarly, Dr Evans relies on a research paper from 1989 dealing with gas embolisms, which occur through the use of high ventilation pressures in preterm neonates.
The cause of death due to gas embolism from high-pressure ventilation differs substantially from the cause of death due to air embolism.
It is never properly explained how the article Dr Evans references could ever have been used as a basis for describing air embolism using ambient air with 21% oxygen introduced through various tubes.
The paper Dr Evans references describes air embolism caused by high pressure 100% oxygen being delivered to the lung with such force it causes an air leak in the lung.
When demonstrating the symptoms of a given physiological state, it is necessary to demonstrate this state in multiple peer-reviewed journal articles.
There is no evidence supporting the finding of air embolism in any of the infants, as the expert witnesses rely on a journal article depicting gas embolism and not air embolism."
There is much more. We will hear more about it I am sure during a retrial. If there is one. REAL experts are already describing this trial as a monstrous miscarriage of Justice and looks like your guess could be at the centre of the cyclone. ; ) No allegations made....
Also Dr Evans says I THINK that this is what happened.
I bet he got a massive consultancy fee for his heroic efforts to. I bet it’s not the first time he has given his so called expertise either. Cockroach he is
Quoted from Dr Evans.. because you can not carry out tests very easily to find out if a baby has received injection with air and there is very little scientific information to help you. We had to rely on publications, some of which were over 30 years old to back up the medical evidence.
I like the fact they went looking for evidence at her home as to why she would do this.
Its scary as someone whos premature baby passed away after being off the ventilation for 2 days. I was getting my home ready for my daughter coming home and i got a call telling me my daughter had deteriorated.
It makes you wonder and it definitely puts doubt and mistrust between patients and nhs staff and i will also mention I am nhs staff.
Oh love, that's absolutely horrific. I am so sorry x
Very well presented with great guests and fascinating insights. My thoughts and prayers to all the families of the victims.
If I am totally honest, I do not believe in keeping alive extremely premature babies who cannot breathe for themselves. If anyone saw the program a few years ago about this topic and saw the devastating handicaps that some of these children had they will understand where I am coming from. Having said this, for a nursing professional to wilfully and wickedly harm a poor helpless baby is beyond all belief and any forgiveness IMO.
"direct physical assaults" as well
She was out of control. If she had not murdered so many so quickly, and kept attacking the same poor babies again and again, she probably would never have been caught, ever
she did it because she enjoyed it. like most violent killers. it's not that complicated. it gives them PLEASURE to hurt vulnerable people.
She liked it
I'm unconvinced the verdict was competent.
Yes the system is not set up for innocent people
Well that is the verdict. Have to deal with it.
@@melgrant7404 I'm sure you'll cope just fine.
@@lemdixon01 yes I will. I'm happy with the verdict.
How did the other eight or nine babies die?
That doctor who was giving this evil his attention should held accountable too with this horrible crime
Why?
I had my own stories working for the NHS and its poor management. One big problem in my opinion was the legislation brought in and the huge amount of paperwork that was required. It led to management being unaware of what was going on on the wards..they had too many sub-standard managers, too many meetings resulting in more meetings, budgets that would only allow bank nurses that were paid double...so randoms were in all the time who had no idea about the patients they were looking after...yet they had no budget for permanent staffing...work that out! The good bosses were tearing their hair out due to the amount of paperwork required, meanwhile others were getting away with shoddy ward standards and nurses who were only it for the double pay. There were some wonderful nurses too, but the work was therefore harder for them as they did not get the support they needed!!
The money wasted at the top was staggering. Sadly, the NHS is a mess. I saw many many people fundraising and donating to the hospital...important equipment desperately needed....but a lot of it went on buffet food and drinks at their meetings to keep the big bosses happy. I was so disgusted I left.
Great talk, It would be nice to have had a nurse guest speaker and see their view point
It has sickened the nation
Great show loved every minute 👍
Really good programme thank you 2 all that been part of it incluind the guests
Excellent hard hitting episode exposing the truth within the shockingly poor management within the NHS that we are subjected to these days!!!
This should be aired on prime time tv for all to see!
I listened to a psychiatrist/MD called Andrew Van der Vaart on UA-cam the other day. To my mind he gives some of the best analysis on Lucy I've heard so far. He talks about her having a split personality and more. What he says about her notes makes a lot of sense to me. The episode is called "Lucy the witch in the Shadow". Also Nick on True Crime Rocket Science is brilliant in his ovservations, research and analysis.
Oh, AVDV Is immaculate
Also, someone who had a take on the notes i hadnt heard anywhere else was a Dr David Holmes, a criminal psychiatrist. He was interviewed on a channel, an Irish guy first name Colm, i can't recall sirname but his name is his channel name... holmes mentions the note about 20mins in.
Someone else i enjoy is "DR G EXPLAINS" not to be confused with T.Grande.
Molly coddling parents too created a entitled narcissist psychopath lucy
She doesn't have split personality. Why does everyone feel desperate to diagnose people who are clearly not mentally unwell with conditions they have little evidence of having.
She does not meet the criteria for DID nor any personality disorders.
Have u ever asked yourself what is split personality? Cos it's not something that is diagnosable. It's not even a condition.
Seems like society can't accept that some HUMANS commit heinous crimes. You constantly try to degumise than by giving them labels and making metal health excuses.
To he diagnosed with a disorder you need to meet the criteria and have symptoms. She DOESN'T.
SHE IS NOT MENTALLY UNWELL. she is a human with low emotion. That does not make you a psychopath, there is literally rigid symptoms you need to have and ASPD to even be considered that.
Stop tryna force labels on her. The only label that is factual is that she is human. Accept it. Evil humans exist. They don't all meet the criteria for MH disorders
Dehumanise*
No such thing as a split personality.
There are children and families who are contending with severe brain damage and all the pain and heartache that brings. Every day. Due to her actions.
A male nurse saving a baby is praised but does not receive the admiration, warmth & support that a female nurse often would.
She turned the medical emergencies into dramatic productions starring Lucy Letby.
So are you saying that it is a gender problem?
Any evidence for this assertion that male nurses don’t receive the same admiration as female nurses? No? Thought not.
@@BanjoPixelSnack Do you have any evidence for presuming male nurses receive the same admiration as female nurses? No? Nothing?
And btw that's not my point. I was specifically talking about nurses caring for babies, not nurses in general.
How could she be jealous of mothers? She was young enough to have a baby. Was she diagnosed infertile?
Exactly Letby was a young healthy woman in her twenties. They are way off, she was ANGRY because the parents were happy. She enjoyed watching the destruction of the parents and other peoples happiness.
Letby seemed to have a "thing" about babies from multiple births. She killed a few babies who were twins or triplets.
she was in her mid twenties at the time though.......and women in their early thirties can have kids, guy
I dont know how confident i am in these verdicts. There are definitely concerns i have about Lebty's actions and the numbers, but also about the state of the hospital and the spreadsheet used to place her at the murders, the defense, the released juror. Id like to know more about the statistics of all baby deaths to all nurses. What are ALL the numbers, not just the ones Letby was present for. Do they allege she killed EVERY child that died on her watch? Surely at least some of them died of other causes while she was on shift?
Do i understand correctly that the charges she faced for murder and attempt. murder were only one-third to one-half of the baby deaths that occured at the time and that Lucy was not present for any of the other deaths? Wouldnt that make the spreadsheet very different. Id be curious to see the statistical analysis of deaths they calculated (if they did it).
I will grant that she was present for all deaths that she present at...... which is what the spreadsheet showed. But was she present for a significantly higher number of deaths than others in her ward, similar wards, other wards and what one should expect in future cases?? If we can tell statistically that she/anyone is way out of normal range, then could we not be alerted to this statistic by some so-designed computer program, immediately after the deaths occur, and catch the suspect staff immediately, or at least be alert to them ?
Furthermore, she was only unanimously convicted in 3 cases (no unanimous decision needed in UK, just a majority- thats scary to my mind!!) One death was tossed before it ever got to trial - by the judge! What was wrong there and is that a sign of problems with the prosecution, cases etc? Also, the defense was pathetic. Were their hands tied by judge as far as arguing certain evidence, or were they just PATHETIC Attorneys? I could rhink of a millions ways to pick apart the cases etc.
And, NOT ONE SINGLE DOCTOR testified in her defense? Why not? Just a JANITOR? WTF. The causes of the deaths were very difficult to prove and yet NOT ONE expert doctor testified on her behalf?
Why are there not cameras in the nicu wards? Casinos film everything. Not for our precious, helpless children while with staff (who are generally unidentifiable tiny babies who i doubt the family will mind). They could watch the babies (and staff) all the time. Could discourage killers.
Lastly, tho i am unconvinced of her guilt by the evidence and i think the jury could easily have found reasonable doubt, she sure seemed resigned to a bad verdict for some reason- she didnt show for the verdict!! She felt the case against her was overwhelming and believed herself that she was getting convicted? Why? Why didnt she show up to exclaim her innocence and to tell them theyre all wrong and to defend herself!? THIS act is what makes me convinced she is guilty of doing "something wrong" to at least a child. IMO, SHE felt guilty in her heart, otherwise she would have showed up at verdict and been defiant. Give us a reason, Lucy - those of us who are unsure about it all - give us a reason to believe in you and your innocence!
I totally agree with you she desperately deserves a retrial
I think she's probably innocent. This has been a shambles.
For statistical analysis, Richard Gill is on it. Also you really should see the norman fenton interview on here with Scott Mclachlan
Excellent episode. Like an analytical Crimewatch for the AI age.
All I got from this round table discussion over Lucy Letby, were hypotheses and theories. I’m not saying she is innocent, but is zero hard evidence to prove her guilt, no confession (aside of course from the anguished writings on a piece of paper, when she actually also stated she was innocent) and there were no witnesses whatsoever. It’s all very concerning indeed
REALLY 😩 😢 WAS YOU AT HER TRAIL WHERE SHE WAS FOUND GUILTY 😢 YOU SICKO
Still not 100% sure whether the verdict was right or not, but here's some important points to consider:
- At least one baby died in that hospital in 2014 due to negligence by doctors. (Baby called Noah)
- An inspection in 2022 showed the Hospitals maternity services to be "unsafe for mothers and babies."
- Lucy took part in a campaign to raise funds for a new neonatal unit at the hospital.
- She was a nurse at this hospital for 3 years before anything suspicious began. (2012-2015)
I think her conviction is unsafe ,convicting on circumstantial evidence is always unsafe. In a way I hope she is guilty ,because if she is not think what the system has done to her
Thanks for this info! I think she's innocent
@@rolandhawken6628 If she is not guilty, this is a hell of a FU. With nothing but nonsense from all the specialists in every field related to it. Up to, during and since her case.
I sincerely hope my doubts are wrong and she really is guilty.
Yeah nah
The rate and frequency of deaths associated exclusively with her presence, that stopped as soon as she was moved, as well as her FB searches and trophies...she's 💯 guilty
It wasn't the Hospital
There was suspicious activity by her going back to 2012
I wish someone could explain why women do this. It’s sickening.
Sometimes it is down to Münchausen syndrome by proxy. It’s a psychological disorder and sometimes combines with narcissism. It could be to gain attention or sympathy.
May be best to focus on the 90% + committed by men
you have to actually take into account that there are usually more female than male nurses in general. so you have to include that in a theory about a motive
The lack of emotion in her police interview is telling, l feel anyone accused of this horrific crime would be so very emotional in denying this, can't imagine being accused of something if you were innocent and staying calm and emotionless
Your comment is telling. It tells us that you think you behave how we should behave, and any variation to that, is suspect.
You should mention this to your therapist.
@@robinhood4640You should mention your Letby crush to your therapist. Yikes.
@@y2ksurvivor That'll be you imagining things, that there is absolutely no evidence for whatsoever, again.
You really should be discussing all this with your therapist. Make an appointment, before you forget.
@@robinhood4640 😅 it's your reply that's very telling !
Here in the US after the first baby there would of been an investigation and the hospital would be held responsible and a lawsuit would be filed
While these doctors just argued with management. Read an apology to her. Didn't ask for post mortem due to concerns
In fact, six babies had death certificates which listed other, natural causes
I just hope that if there are repercussions that it will be managers held accountable. Nurses and doctors have enough pressure on them as it is. And as one doctor said about the revalidation that was meant to protect the public from another Harold Shipman, it’s very likely he would have passed his revalidation anyway….
She has been described as an introvert and loner, yet looking at many of her photos when she's out enjoying herself, she looks anything but. Perhaps she comes out of her shell when she's had a few.
Oh yh cos quiet loners don't go out to birthday parties and Christmas partiesm they stay at home and cry
I'm an introvert loner. It doesnt mean I am a criminal or a would be criminal. I just like my own company.
Or maybe she is innocent and been stitched up.. don’t think that doctors and senior management will
Not throw a young nurse under the bus to save there own skin. And what is most sickening is theses bastards are now being called hero’s. Ravi jayaram was also pushing the covid jab back in 2021… don’t ever forget that, I doctor takes a Hippocratic oath to do no harm but he was happy playing the so called hero in snaring the evil nurse but when not busy was pushing the clot shot.. I wonder how much money he got paid for that… scumbag him
@@pheart2381 I'm not saying you do.
some of those photographs were taken after Letby had been suspended from duty, and had been instructed not to talk to or meet any work friends or colleagues. She claimed at the time she was becoming very "isolated" and "depressed". It doesn't much look like it in the photos though, does it?
“The quality of baby card in the UK is as good as anywhere in the world”. Probably not anymore. Learn the lessons bla bla bla
Absolutely damming. The words of the Paediatrician about the hospital management says it all, sadly and plainly. They were worried about themselves not the children dying.
She turned the medical emergencies into dramatic productions starring Lucy Letby.
Definitely Allit seemed to be one who loved that intensity..that Bringing of LIGHTS, ACTION! Im not sire that Letby was the same way even tho outwardly their patterns were very much the same. I think Lucy Letby is a Sadist.
Not to say she didnt also like the attn of people she could boast to, just like Allit..."the baby is going to go Hypo". "See, i knew it. It it weren't for me...see i am a good nurse "
What are your thoughts about the police force turning this horrific crime into a Hollywood production film, with their video covering this case?
Just out of curiosity.
Could it be she was held in her
Cell as they knew she would shout
Out her Innocence
Sounds more plausible
She redused to come into court. Her last power play. She had plenty of chance to shout out her innocence
Wrong. She was 25 in the year when she is known to have attacked the babies.
Although it is horrific as anything could be, 99.9% of nurses would not even consider doing something like this. You are referencing a handful of nurses from all across the globe spanning a period of at least 40 years. There are millions and millions of nurses working millions and millions of shifts. Yes there will be some bad apples, and some anomalies, but the profession does not deserve the dark shadow that has been cast over it. People will always need care, and trust is important to both patient and nurse . Maintaining professional boundaries is the responsibility of the individual nurse, the educational institutions, and above all - the management. Errant doctors, dentists, RT therapists, nurse's aids, etc. have all killed or molested patients. Priests and teachers have exhibited conflict of interest and abuse of power, thus destroying lives. Organizations need to be vigilant re any signs of conflict of interest. Professionals should not be having affairs with co-workers, they should not be chummy with patients or their families, they should not be dating patients, going to funerals of patients, adopting patients, or infiltrating the families of patients. Nor should teachers. Eliminating and red-flagging the conflict of interest, needs to be the first step taken to eradicate abuse of power. The doctor she was involved with should also face serious professional repercussions. If people are going to stray, womanize, etc. don't do it in the workplace. Affairs often lead to murder. Whether it is due to the high levels of emotion, or the predisposition to be dishonest and dodgy, who knows? But whatever it is, affairs are often deadly.
That was a good discussion .
Who killed the other 10 babies whose deaths she wasn't present for?
Don’t be silly
Plague is right! the sentencing does not match the crime most of the time! there lies one of biggest problems.
Not just the NHS admin all aspects of administration are able to abuse their responsibilities and corrupt their use I have been nursing for over 50years and have watched how administrations are able to cover up mistakes and resources stretched to make financial manipulation for businesses to maintain financial gain, and to control through threat the whistleblowers!!!!
Brilliant interview.
My boyfriend trained to be to be a nurse but later changed to medical records. Before he changed he assisted in delivery of 2 babies. He also worked in the neonatal ward. It was his favorite place to work. He was in the army in Germany in late 80's.
He said he could not believe she got away with it. Why would she do it? It made him sick when I told him what she did. He said they better put cameras up in the wards.
I would also be scrutinizing her colleagues who are defending her; there may have been more than one nurse involved.
Dr Dewi Evans , where do we go for answers to raise concerns when the SBUHB at Singleton who's job it is to investigate keep side stepping to protect their staff no matter what, and even more so that the ward that raises concerns is also based at Singleton
I thought I will give the video 2-3 minutes and leave.
I didn’t, thank you, really thank you.
There should be a clearly defined career pathway for baby killers.