I recorded this more than a week ago with the intention of writing a blog entry to go along with it to clarify some of my points and go into more detail. But got wrapped up in getting started on building the new saw, and didn't find the time for it. So, here it is, as it it is, and I hope you enjoy it / get something from it. You can help support the work I do in making these videos: Plans for sale: ibuildit.ca/plans/ Support this channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=865843&ty=h Did you know I have other UA-cam channels? My main channel: ua-cam.com/users/jpheisz More videos on my second woodworking channel: ua-cam.com/users/IBuildIt My home reno channel: ua-cam.com/users/IBuildItHome Website: ibuildit.ca/ Facebook: facebook.com/I-Build-It-258048014240900/ Instagram: instagram.com/i_build_it.ca/
"You wanna see some magic? Here, let's watch you disappear." Brilliant, John. You are not only a gifted woodworker and machinist, but you're truly an artist mastering this format. May all those who question your greatness simply disappear.
Much of what I learned about woodworking in my past (before UA-cam) came from looking at fine furniture at the stores or in people's homes. It drove my then wife crazy! I often seek woodworking videos with different approaches to the craft. Your videos are very straightforward and helpful. Keep making them!
I really appreciate you explaining the how and why of things. To many people don't know or share this and, when questioned by curious people like me, respond with trite answers like, "because this is the right way".
An absolutely fantastic demonstration and examples of different types of drawer construction. I am sure some people disagree with you but you are 100% correct. Thank you
I'm a computer programmer by trade. One day, a reasonably new developer was a bit down on himself because of a simple mistake he made. I suggested to him that the only difference between us was that I've already made mistakes and learned from them. It's my job to help him learn the 'why' on how things work so he won't make as many mistakes as I did over the last 40 years and spend a lot of time learning from them and fixing them. Thanks for helping an old man reasonably new to woodworking not make as many mistakes as I could. Learning from one's mistakes is a great way to get better at something, but it's much better to know the right way and why so one doesn't have to fix them.
Always good to hear the explanation about wood strength and joint strength in building common items with different materials repeated...wisdom passed on. Thanks
Being new to wood working, those kinds of videos are a mine of gold to me. The only question about drawer structure I didn't find answer to yet, considreing a plywood drawer, is it better to glue sides around bottom, or bottom under sides. I've seen both (I think John did both in fact), but I'm not sure which one would be the strongest...
looking at the design of the solid wood drawer I couldn't help but notice the slanted dividers, very clever! Trying to fish small items out would be so much easier with that design. More or less a ramp. Nice. Thanks for the video.
Hey John, I've watched your videos for years, and I have always really all of them; simple practical, straightforward. I especially enjoyed this video, thanks alot, please keep posting great stuff, and be well from Nova.
Great video as always. Nothing beats learning from a failed part of a project. I always have anxiety starting drawers. It is reassuring using the tried and true methods so there'll be rock solid. Still a chore when you have six to build. We always mix plywood with solid wood and having that underlying structure be stable is what we build around now days.
Good explanation John. I like the part about failure being a good source of knowledge. I've made the same project several times successfully, but it took my failure yesterday to show me what I was doing right and to allow me to always do it right form now on.
Thanks, but it's not my madness. The methods shown in this video are standard stuff for most experienced woodworkers -they know what solid wood does and how to account for that, and they know what plywood does and what you can get away with.
Good point(s), John. Back in the day, drawers had to be constructed well because they didn't have modern drawer slides. All that tugging put stress ALL the joints. In my opinion, dovetails are just decorative now days for drawers.
On your discussion on structure and joinery in-general, I consider the nature of the application. When I built what's essentially a tabletop baby changing station out of poplar, using a design similar to a bed frame with rails and slats, I just dadoed the slats into grooves cut into the rails and glued them, no fasteners of any kind. I could have pocketed each slat into routed sockets but that would have taken a long time. I chose this technique largely because the expected stresses on the finished product would be easily handled by this design, and once the changing pad was placed on the slats, the dado slots were no longer visible.
I'm exactly the type of new guy who underestimates joint strength, and it's 100% a function of just not having the experience to know. John, if you put together and sold a set of plans that was a cheat-sheet type product, where I could print and laminate or put in a binder, I'd love it. Something where I could glance and see that if I'm building a drawer with half-inch stock all around, I should be fine with butt joints, glue, and XX-inch brads (or pins?). But if I want half-inch bottom with 1/4" sides, I might need to reinforce using XX or XX joints, and switch to XX-inch nails/pins, etc.
That would have to be a very comprehensive list, since width, depth, hight and use (=load) of the drawer will increase and decreases forces on the panels and joints.
Nice job John 👍 I used to think “why does John explain this stuff that all woodworkers already know”. I realize now that you do it to help those who don’t know the “passed down” information or they don’t know there are newer ways of doing things since products have evolved. This way they understand why you and others do things that different from the “right way” such as glueing a plywood bottom into a drawer. For the haters out there: “Far better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you’re an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” Abraham Lincoln
Some stuff I already know, but it's good to hear it explained again, just so I can be absolutely sure :D The thing with gluing or not gluing the drawer bottoms in this case was something I knew about, but I wasn't 100% till John mentioned it :D
plywood is great. I think it still shrinks and swells in thickness similar to the amount that solid wood does across the grain. Having the front of the box meet the sides so that the fasteners are in shear instead of tension/withdrawal is probably worth thinking about on thinner material or more demanding applications.
The expansion and contraction of the thickness is again negligible, due to the thickness of the material - you don't have to allow for it unless you are stacking several sheets together.
Hey John, On your traditional drawer, you glued the bottom panel to the back of the drawer. Why didn't you glue it to the front instead of the back? Wouldn't that have taken some of the load off of the box joint corners (the ones that join the front and sides) to glue the front instead? I'm curious which method you recommend.
The back part of the bottom plate isn't carried by a dado, so it will bend / sag under load. So to transfer the force to the back rail they are bonded. Also glueing the front won't help as you suggest since the side edges of the bottom aren't supposed to be glued to allow for sliding on swelling and crimping in depth. Only thing beneficial is that the front won't bow forwards or backwards wenn pulled or pushed (on a wide drawer). This bow gives some undesireable hinging forces on the joints between front and side panels. But when sliding well the drawer will start sliding before anything serious happens there.
Newbie woodworkers should absolutely resist making anything other than positive or inquisitive comments. In fact, I think that should be a law! Thanks for the video, John.
Maybe you wear shorts in 11 C weather just like the teens do but some of us wait until it gets stupid hot. Tomorrow is October 9 and the forecast is for a "feels like" of 34 Celsius or 93 Fahrenheit. Of course this is in Oakville about an hour away from you.
"Your Not a structural engineer", that is soooo disappointing ! We Will just have to rely on the "grandfather clause", that is the years and years of training and on the job experience that you have built up over the years and years of your work-life ????? By the way 11deg where I come from in the North of Australia is the 'middle' of Winter and definitely not "jock strap and spurs" weather as it would be at your end ???? Keep up the great work and tks for all your effort !!
The principle can be seen right back in Ancient Egypt - between early and late period pyramids - even the maths was rudimentary. It would be interesting to know how the Great Pyramid would fare if it was built on the San Andreas Fault.
Engineers have really just excelled at 'minimising' the build to make things cheaper to build. Why over build if you can design to be 'just enough'. That's probably why most modern furniture (mass produced) is just crap!
I recorded this more than a week ago with the intention of writing a blog entry to go along with it to clarify some of my points and go into more detail. But got wrapped up in getting started on building the new saw, and didn't find the time for it.
So, here it is, as it it is, and I hope you enjoy it / get something from it.
You can help support the work I do in making these videos:
Plans for sale: ibuildit.ca/plans/
Support this channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=865843&ty=h
Did you know I have other UA-cam channels?
My main channel:
ua-cam.com/users/jpheisz
More videos on my second woodworking channel:
ua-cam.com/users/IBuildIt
My home reno channel:
ua-cam.com/users/IBuildItHome
Website: ibuildit.ca/
Facebook: facebook.com/I-Build-It-258048014240900/
Instagram: instagram.com/i_build_it.ca/
Drawer slides have nothing to do with how a drawer is constructed, so it's not a point, let alone a major one.
"You wanna see some magic? Here, let's watch you disappear." Brilliant, John. You are not only a gifted woodworker and machinist, but you're truly an artist mastering this format. May all those who question your greatness simply disappear.
thanks for taking the time to do this video John.
Well said John. Many excellent points were made.
Much of what I learned about woodworking in my past (before UA-cam) came from looking at fine furniture at the stores or in people's homes. It drove my then wife crazy! I often seek woodworking videos with different approaches to the craft. Your videos are very straightforward and helpful. Keep making them!
I'm barely a beginning woodworker but I'm a structural engineer with over 40 years experience and I think you have given a pretty good explanation.
I really appreciate you explaining the how and why of things. To many people don't know or share this and, when questioned by curious people like me, respond with trite answers like, "because this is the right way".
An absolutely fantastic demonstration and examples of different types of drawer construction. I am sure some people disagree with you but you are 100% correct. Thank you
I'm a computer programmer by trade. One day, a reasonably new developer was a bit down on himself because of a simple mistake he made. I suggested to him that the only difference between us was that I've already made mistakes and learned from them. It's my job to help him learn the 'why' on how things work so he won't make as many mistakes as I did over the last 40 years and spend a lot of time learning from them and fixing them.
Thanks for helping an old man reasonably new to woodworking not make as many mistakes as I could. Learning from one's mistakes is a great way to get better at something, but it's much better to know the right way and why so one doesn't have to fix them.
Excellent point but I think it is also important to know how to "fix" mistakes to avoid starting a pile of firewood.
Great explanation John, as always. This video should be used as an introduction to any carpentry course. Thank you very much John!
Excellent video John.
Always good to hear the explanation about wood strength and joint strength in building common items with different materials repeated...wisdom passed on. Thanks
Good info... thanks!
Being new to wood working, those kinds of videos are a mine of gold to me. The only question about drawer structure I didn't find answer to yet, considreing a plywood drawer, is it better to glue sides around bottom, or bottom under sides. I've seen both (I think John did both in fact), but I'm not sure which one would be the strongest...
Thank you for sharing this John.
looking at the design of the solid wood drawer I couldn't help but notice the slanted dividers, very clever! Trying to fish small items out would be so much easier with that design. More or less a ramp. Nice. Thanks for the video.
Nice video John. I always appreciate hearing your wisdom.
Hey John, I've watched your videos for years, and I have always really all of them; simple practical, straightforward. I especially enjoyed this video, thanks alot, please keep posting great stuff, and be well from Nova.
Great video as always. Nothing beats learning from a failed part of a project. I always have anxiety starting drawers. It is reassuring using the tried and true methods so there'll be rock solid. Still a chore when you have six to build. We always mix plywood with solid wood and having that underlying structure be stable is what we build around now days.
Thanks John.
Ahhh a Scrap Bin video... miss the frequency that they used to be posted at! Love the wisdom!
Blame the viewers that took these as regular content - I just got sick of hearing how I don't build anything, anymore.
Which is insane as you put out more build videos than anyone else.
Superb. Really useful. Thanks for sharing.
Another great video John. I knew wood expands but thought in all directions. Your the man 👍
Good explanation John. I like the part about failure being a good source of knowledge. I've made the same project several times successfully, but it took my failure yesterday to show me what I was doing right and to allow me to always do it right form now on.
Expertly explained. Very we done!
Good job man I like the explanation.Love your videos.
Good stuff. I always enjoy when you explain the methods to your madness
Thanks, but it's not my madness. The methods shown in this video are standard stuff for most experienced woodworkers -they know what solid wood does and how to account for that, and they know what plywood does and what you can get away with.
No, I totally get that - was merely to "coin a phrase" as it were
Amazing, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. Please go on doing this kind of video.
Well done John!
Thanks, John. Well explained. Hope the table saw build is going well.
Great information, thanks
Good information there John. Keep up the good work.
Man I wish it was 11 degrees here in Virginia. It's been 28 degrees for the past few weeks.
Wood can move 1/8 of an inch per foot
Good point(s), John. Back in the day, drawers had to be constructed well because they didn't have modern drawer slides. All that tugging put stress ALL the joints. In my opinion, dovetails are just decorative now days for drawers.
And now I know why I have had to repair several of my drawers in my kitchen because the fronts got pulled off!
The front fell off? Well that's not supposed to happen. Hopefully it at least happened outside the environment...
That happened to you to.
In kitchener Ontario and everyday is shorts weather
Good to know for us amateurs watching :)
we have many Canadians here in Phoenix/Scottsdale area during winter. Just recently got under 100's. 100=37 celsius.
That's still short and t-shirt weather in Seattle as long as it's not raining.
On your discussion on structure and joinery in-general, I consider the nature of the application. When I built what's essentially a tabletop baby changing station out of poplar, using a design similar to a bed frame with rails and slats, I just dadoed the slats into grooves cut into the rails and glued them, no fasteners of any kind. I could have pocketed each slat into routed sockets but that would have taken a long time.
I chose this technique largely because the expected stresses on the finished product would be easily handled by this design, and once the changing pad was placed on the slats, the dado slots were no longer visible.
I'm exactly the type of new guy who underestimates joint strength, and it's 100% a function of just not having the experience to know. John, if you put together and sold a set of plans that was a cheat-sheet type product, where I could print and laminate or put in a binder, I'd love it. Something where I could glance and see that if I'm building a drawer with half-inch stock all around, I should be fine with butt joints, glue, and XX-inch brads (or pins?). But if I want half-inch bottom with 1/4" sides, I might need to reinforce using XX or XX joints, and switch to XX-inch nails/pins, etc.
That would have to be a very comprehensive list, since width, depth, hight and use (=load) of the drawer will increase and decreases forces on the panels and joints.
Muy buena explicacion! Gracias por compartir tus conocimientos y experiencia.
Nice job John 👍 I used to think “why does John explain this stuff that all woodworkers already know”. I realize now that you do it to help those who don’t know the “passed down” information or they don’t know there are newer ways of doing things since products have evolved. This way they understand why you and others do things that different from the “right way” such as glueing a plywood bottom into a drawer.
For the haters out there:
“Far better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you’re an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” Abraham Lincoln
Some stuff I already know, but it's good to hear it explained again, just so I can be absolutely sure :D
The thing with gluing or not gluing the drawer bottoms in this case was something I knew about, but I wasn't 100% till John mentioned it :D
plywood is great. I think it still shrinks and swells in thickness similar to the amount that solid wood does across the grain. Having the front of the box meet the sides so that the fasteners are in shear instead of tension/withdrawal is probably worth thinking about on thinner material or more demanding applications.
The expansion and contraction of the thickness is again negligible, due to the thickness of the material - you don't have to allow for it unless you are stacking several sheets together.
Hey John, On your traditional drawer, you glued the bottom panel to the back of the drawer. Why didn't you glue it to the front instead of the back? Wouldn't that have taken some of the load off of the box joint corners (the ones that join the front and sides) to glue the front instead? I'm curious which method you recommend.
The back part of the bottom plate isn't carried by a dado, so it will bend / sag under load.
So to transfer the force to the back rail they are bonded.
Also glueing the front won't help as you suggest since the side edges of the bottom aren't supposed to be glued to allow for sliding on swelling and crimping in depth.
Only thing beneficial is that the front won't bow forwards or backwards wenn pulled or pushed (on a wide drawer).
This bow gives some undesireable hinging forces on the joints between front and side panels. But when sliding well the drawer will start sliding before anything serious happens there.
Anything above freezing is Shorts Weather.
Newbie woodworkers should absolutely resist making anything other than positive or inquisitive comments. In fact, I think that should be a law!
Thanks for the video, John.
Maybe you wear shorts in 11 C weather just like the teens do but some of us wait until it gets stupid hot. Tomorrow is October 9 and the forecast is for a "feels like" of 34 Celsius or 93 Fahrenheit. Of course this is in Oakville about an hour away from you.
Before there were engineers, it was more likely that things like, say, the Wasa, could happen.
Needs more polyurethane construction adhesive
What ,no fan of duct tape ??? 😁
Nice tutorial John thanks.👍
"How strong things need to be"
QFT
Good talk, even if it's a week old.
Yeah, sometimes we just have to take time to clean our drawers.
"Your Not a structural engineer", that is soooo disappointing ! We Will just have to rely on the "grandfather clause", that is the years and years of training and on the job experience that you have built
up over the years and years of your work-life ????? By the way 11deg where I come from in the North of Australia is the 'middle' of Winter and definitely not "jock strap and spurs" weather as it would be at your end ???? Keep up the great work and tks for all your effort !!
If you don't believe in tape joints, you're just not using the right kind of tape :-P
7 thumbs down.. So Far. I guess some people are filling their drawers.
Super explained!
(which morons are thumbing down here?)
Cheerio from Germany.
The principle can be seen right back in Ancient Egypt - between early and late period pyramids - even the maths was rudimentary. It would be interesting to know how the Great Pyramid would fare if it was built on the San Andreas Fault.
Engineers have really just excelled at 'minimising' the build to make things cheaper to build. Why over build if you can design to be 'just enough'. That's probably why most modern furniture (mass produced) is just crap!
you should team up with some body building channels and try to get some of those guys to crush some of your drawers :)
k ničemu
Thanks John
Great info! Thanks