The Hypocrisy of Men VS Women in The Order (& LDS)
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- Watch first at @cultstoconsciousness at 6pm pst here: ua-cam.com/users/li...
Next, we will go live here at 7pm pst! Today's topic is the similarities between The Order and mainstream LDS on praising men for the same things we are shaming women for. See you soon!
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As a non cult woman who is straight and single and childless I am sometimes made feel by general society that I have somehow failed. Despite all our liberation and modernisation this attitude amazes me. Note I am happy and free and enjoying my life. But still refered to as the one who never got married!!!!! I have run my own business and others and am proud that unlike some of my peers I never settled for less just to fit in. I proudly cared for my beautiful parents in their last days and was so lucky to have got to know them as an adult. Though Catholic my parents encouraged freedom of choice and healthy debate. Thank you ladies for brightening a dark time of grief and loss and for showing me how lucky I was to be loved and cherished in my family. I love both your channels and have learned so much. cc🎉
I think a lot of women perpetuate this, in order to justify the prioritizations and choices they have made, in their own lives. It threatens their sense of self, to hear or to see that people can be fulfilled and lead a meaningful joy-filled life, even if they don’t choose kids and/or marriage. But there are SO many ways to nourish or to nurture aspects of ourselves and of others, in this world. And ALL are valuable and needed!!
WOW!! I could have written every word of this!! Thank You for saying this 🙏 I relate, and I feel so much less alone now ❤
54-female, heterosexual, never married, and...happy. I don't give a crap what society thinks about me. My mother questioned me up until the day she died why I couldn't find a good man and settle down. Well, for one thing, I found a bunch of bad men, and I was smart enough not to end up with them. My dad was a great man, so I have no daddy issues. I just never found anyone that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, and I'm okay with that. I don't need anyone's pity. I don't feel guilt or shame. My life is good.
Your worth far exceeds an ability or desire to have children. This does not just apply to men's "success".
As a married non cult member with several children CONGRATS to you for being the amazing happy woman that you are. NO ONE has the right to tell you how to be happy. I’m glad there are strong women out there following their own dreams. Don’t ever let anyone tell you differently.
Please start a podcast together! Love this collab so much
That would be awsome!!! Or a monthly collab on UA-cam ❤
I said this on CtoC too: A&E mishandling victims and survivors seems to be a theme! Several people from the Scientology: The Aftermath show report similar stories. They need trauma informed therapists behind the scenes on every show
I’m so glad both of you got out of your respective cults. You ladies are so emotionally intelligent, it’s amazing.
As an ex-Jehovah's Witness, your channel has helped me heal a lot. Please don't stop your advocacy and exposing these dangerous cults that abuse the most vulnerable; children and women. Thanks for all you do!
Amanda, I am always impressed by your maturity. At 40+ years old, I don't think I am nearly as mature as you and self aware.
As someone who is super self aware, I’ve come to terms that being self aware is not always a requirement just like self improvement. Sometimes being too aware of yourself can be detrimental because you know the problem, and about 50 other problems and fixing them is seemingly more complicated. All this to say, don’t compare yourself to someone else because it might look like they have it together but we’re all just sacks of skin with no real clue what we’re doing.
A long time ago cups and plates were made of lead. You can drink all the water you need, but if it is out of a lead cup, it will still hurt you. That's my church metaphor
If you're happy and you know it, IT'S the MEDS! 🎵
So I'm asexual, but I could totally see some of the men being gay based on my upbringing in the catholic church. I was taught that sex is for procreation only so I never understood how someone could accidentally get pregnant (nonconsensual activities notwithstanding, that's not an accident, that's assault, which I was under the impression was done solely for power and humiliation). And of course horrible sex ed didn't help so I didn't learn till I was an adult that most people think it's fun.
Just FYI, YT did not redirect me- I searched “Amanda Rae Shelise Ann Sola” to find this.
Super worth it, obviously
I think one reason so many people find these topics so deeply meaningful, even if we haven’t been in a cult, is that so much of what y’all discuss is true in more “mainstream” society as well; it’s just more pronounced/easily visible when put into sharp relief.
Also, putting my doula hat on for a split second, babies actually gestate for way closer to 10months than to 9, and a huge amount of development happens during those last few weeks. So, don’t get induced early if you can possibly avoid it (if you can’t avoid it, don’t worry- you’ll still do great and so will baby)
Oh my stars! I had no idea that gestation is usually closer to ten months. Thank you for sharing
40 weeks does sound a little closer to 10 months.
💚
It shocks me how many people don’t realize that 40 weeks does equal 10 months. 9 months is a misnomer and people look at me crazy when I tell them that
@@tianna1116 well no one told me “40 weeks” before either, I only heard 9 months before this
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
“Just get over it….”
It’s so hurtful.
Like HOLY SHIT I didn't think about that! I'll give it a try. Here I was just trying to suffer. 🤔😮💨
I watched all of the "Escaping Polygamy" series and I'm happy to find Amanda Rae again through Cults to Consciousness and Shelise. Great conversation. Love to you both! ❤️
I love this! Start a podcast together! I’d watch ever episode. I was raised in evangelical Christianity so this is very applicable to me. Women are held down by subtle expectations. Religion is a very efficient way to hypnotize large groups of people. Hugs to you both.
Yeah, ever since Niceia.
Jung refers to that kind of unconscious self-hate as your shadow self the things you bury in the basement have a way of digging their way out to meet you at the front door face to face the point is to integrate the shadow
Very interesting
Admitting you're in the wrong is the first step. Self awareness makes the whole difference.
This discussion is great,, ladies! I'm subscribed to both!❤❤
Just remember, good friends are nature’s way of saying sorry for your family. The two of you together is really amazing!!! ❤❤❤
Yay! Just watched the first part on Cults To Consciousness. Shalise is awesome!
This is the reason I am a member here! This is the content I come for~
You two together are magical ✨🖤✨🖤 I love watching this friendship blossom 🌸
For women saying prayer: in the nondenominational church of christ I grew up in, a woman couldn't lead a prayer in a room with any baptized teen males or adults. It had to be the baptized male. Women could only lead prayers for each other and unbaptized men (there weren't typically unbaptized men around)
The misogyny is what is was created the cognitive dissonance for me first, I think.
I also grew up in the C of C. The misogyny was from the Bible, they based it on scripture. Which I know is still bad, not disputing that! It never bothered me as I’m an introvert, and didn’t want to do any public speaking, lol. I was fortunate, my church in the west wasn’t as conservative as the churches in the south.
That emotional break really resonated with me... even in a controlling family of origin.
Awesome collab Chica's! ❤ 🤗
Amanda, a good episod could be Shelise helping you put together your family timeline. I know you've done it before and you mention how hard it was maybe she can help ❤
Amanda Rae, I was absolutely glued to the t.v during (escaping polygamy). Do you know if there will be more episodes? These things pulls at my heart strings and then makes me proud of you all that had the courage to make the change.❤
10/10 👍🏼
If LDS women need their husbands to pull them through the vail what happens if they die first?
The man pulls the woman through the veil after the Final Judgement and the Resurrection, as I understand. In Mormonism, after you die, you go to this waiting room place until it's time for everyone to be assigned to their kingdom. I assume that's when you give the passwords to get into heaven. If anyone knows more, please correct me. I'm interested to hear... Maybe I'll ask my Dad at FHE on Sunday. Lol
I think that young men in polygamy are expected to leave. If a man has to have three wives, birth stats are 50/50 so 2/3 of men have to be single.
More then that if they have 15 wives. That’s anywhere from like 1/10th to 1/15th it seems more like.
That's why they go for children, bigger pool 50/50 means more women
Love to see you both together in your element
You girls are and look so wholsome. From where you came from, to how you got through and all the good and help you do, what great women you are 😊
Absolutely love seeing these two do lives together.
Thank you to both of you ❤❤
It's not just about the kids that women could have it's the kids there kids could have
Amy really was amazing. I just want to hug her.
Questions;
I often wonder if people deep in a religion actually really know the difference between what they feel is God / Holy Spirit, and their intuition/gut feeling . Because I hear all the religious people I listen to on YT and in Podcasts ,Americans especially, allways saying stuff like "I prayed about it, and God/Jesus/ spirit told me... This if that.."
It often sounds like they actually listen to their gut feeling, their intuition,but think it's a message from God .
So.. maybe it should be talked about?
Because I'm not sure exmos or apostates know what to do with that inner voice when they realise that comes from themselves and not God! .
Thank you for great content the both of you!
Love from Marte over in Norway, 🇧🇻 not religious, but raist vhristan, as we all did here before..
There was a TON of that kind of talk in the church, I attended growing up, God solved everything, God told you what to do, God gave you the answers. There was no self trust.
I have now left the church, and I have noticed no difference in how things occur in my life, other than the fact that I am not praying to anything or anyone lol it’s almost like I am responsible for myself and not God 😂
Basically you say what you want and begin it by “god spoke to me,” and voila! Divine influence that nobody should challenge, otherwise it means they don’t love god.
Sometimes it’s their intuition of hunch…but for many people, they know how to manipulate the language in order to get what they want unquestioned
Omg i miss you! I loved your show. Well i hated it but i loved what you guys were doing.
Love you Amanda. So glad to see you both together
Needed this today! Thank you both!
So proud of you Amanda for leaving that bull
If you two had a joint podcast, that would be so entertaining!
Miss working nights and making every live as I'm in the UK 😂
I just had this picture in my head: a hundred dead men and a thousand dead women all shouting "Sarah!!! Sarah!!!" "It's me!!! It's me!!!". Maybe they can then fist-fight to keep the loveliest Sarah, and all the Sarahs can go kiss the feet of the most handsome pretender? Or maybe they can catfight for the dead husband that they want to keep?
Very interesting, thanks for sharing, good luck with everything
And they'd never heard of night emissions?
¡Gracias!
My 2 favorite ladies!
Two beautiful strong women striving to make change in peoples lives!
The man of the house that was never there and rarely is around 😂
You know how that one site publishes data about viewership by state? Utah is a top consumer. Makes me wonder if the "step sibling" category being so popular also has to do with these dudes...
You guys are great ❤
Two beautiful strong women !
I have a different view on the bad treatment of returning women. It is the best evidence yet of the total objectification of all women, rebellious or otherwise. The loss of a man is the loss of a possible future leader, the head of a dynasty. The loss of a woman is the potential loss of a number. The kids that a returning woman can provide are replaceable by the kids that a less rebellious woman can give, and in essence, just a number.
The mere thought that I could have had female kids of my own and that I could still theoretically have, makes this whole discussion very personal. The women who are objectified to the extreme in these cults are essentially equal to the daughter that I could have had.
But also, a woman that left was one less possible wife as you need a surplux of women and you have an excess of men for this kind of polygamy. So a woman leaving is much 'worse' for the men in the cult that a man leaving, because the latter is just less competition. Therefor, a woman who returned need to be punish/treated worse because her 'sin' of leaving is worse.
@@kimthegrey They have a solution for the lack of women, and it is to expel men of low stature, so the men who really matter are few and valuable. Women, on the other hand, are essentially all the same, interchangeable wombs with legs that also happen to do most of the work. If they had all kinds of treatment for different women, so that they could be anything from pawns to leaders, I would believe they are not objectifying them as much. But what I see is the opposite.
About polygamy in the celestial kingdom, the Mormon church believes that women are naturally more righteous than men and so there will be more women in heaven than men hence the need for celestial polygamy.
The irony is that they’re considered naturally more righteous but not allowed to have any real religious authority 😅
Maybe the feds need to be contacted to help in these severe cases. It causes so many problems
I heard for the church not to contact you after you leave, you have to write a resignation letter to the LDS and make sure they take you off the roster.
FB didn't notify me on this live. 😢
🦋🦋🦋
As for the mainstream LDS church, the 1980s weren't a good time. On an unrelated note, Utah is the single most depressing and white state I've ever visited. Part of that was understanding the subtext.
Yes or if we say we are having trouble with anxiety andwe express that it’s always telling us to read the Bible more or have more faith or pray more. LIKE WE HADN’T ALREADY BEEN PRAYING ENOUGH THROUGH IT ALREADY. Like this isn’t about a LACK OF FAITH. There’s more to it and I’m trying to find a root cause and the ANSWER IS NOT THE BIBLE.
I think what you mean is that in the order you can't be your authentic self
As exLDS I'm familiar with that, especially influenced by the prophet at the time, David O McKay. I am not familiar with the order,. Can you give me details? I'm curious on the affect upon the larger cult of Western society. Every cult I study has ties to the cultish behaviour of the dominant culture. Interesting how I have used linguistically the same root.
I have been binging on you and just watched Mormons on mushrooms the full story, IMO those two guys were jealous because the persons being interviewed could respond to you and liked your personality which maybe made them afraid you were taking off faster than them.
I think you're definitely onto something regarding homosexuality....
The eye thing. I call it either the Mormon eyes or Chik-fil-a eyes!
So much fun lol
How can people in the order be watching this and whilst researching family history is interesting why is the Mormon church so obsessed with it.
Wait, so in heaven your husband is the god of his world, but you the wife are a goddess...but in *his world*, not the goddess of your own world? Red flag!
The men that overreact reminds me of the William Shakespeare play “Hamlet” - “Thou doth protest too much, methinks” - maybe they do love other men.
Whatever happened that crazy, blonde lady that got all involved with Priscilla’s situation. She even ended up doing something in “The Crik’”, trying to “help”. Does anyone know?
I once asked in religion class why men can have 4 wives but women can't?
teacher: because a woman can only be pregnant with one person's child but the men can impregnate multiple women at the same time
me: what if a woman wants multiple husbands but NOT for being pregnant?
her (horrified): then what for?
me (11 year old): I would get 4 times the gifts, someone always has time for me, they can split the chores..
classmates: yeah she sounds right
yes I was sent to the principal's office and yes I got an exemption from that class because "you're a good student you already know all the teachings" but really it was because I was disruptive 🤣
I was also their top student AND had multiple awards for memorising the Quran 🤪
Yes the hate crimes wtf lol
Do you ever find Jesus Christ as Savior?
Please know you are a unique and wonderfully made and beloved Child of God, our Saviour, The Maker of all Life Jesus.
♡ 🤍
1:06:33 *”The opposite of depression is not happiness, it is vitality!”*
Respectfully, Grace 🩰