Which Cymbals RECORD Better? [Zildjian A's vs K's]
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- Опубліковано 9 сер 2018
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Which of these two favorite cymbal lines actually records better? The classic Zildjian A’s, or the darker, thinner Zildjian K’s? Now that’s a bit of a loaded question, because we know that recording situations vary from one another. Different styles of music demand different sounds, not to mention individual tastes vary between drummers. But looking at these two cymbal lines objectively… What are the actual differences?…and which cymbals are really the “better” cymbals that YOU should invest in? Cymbal choice can become a very extensive topic, all dependent on your personal taste and musical style. There are so many options out there that cymbal shopping can feel overwhelming. Hopefully the comparison today between the two main categories of cymbals will help you discover what your ear prefers, and you can continue your own research from there. Whether you’re looking for cymbals that will cut through a bright, dense mix, or you need something a little more mellow and dark, today’s comparison should help you hear the real differences between a bright cymbal and a dark cymbal. Whether or not we truly discover the best sounding cymbal out there, I don’t know! But I will demonstrate some of my favorites.
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Hey man just wanted to see your thoughts on mute cymbals? I’m thinking about buying some and would like to know more and I trust your judgment!!
I know this is about cymbals but what drum heads do you use? They sound great.
I've had this struggle for years, A's or K's, among others.
Not easy to sum this up, but here is the big picture I've learned:
- smaller stages (bars, small venues, etc): use lighter, darker cymbals, such as K's, to balance the sound and the whole strength applied on the kit. You don't want to apply different strength of hands in case, for ex., one is ridding and the other hitting the snare.
- bigger outdoor stages you should use brighter cymbals, especially in more intense performances. An example, I just looove my 17 and 18 K Custom Special Dry, but when playing rock on a big stage, not good. Remember, you get a lot of acoustic pressure from the kit itself, not just through in-ear ou amplified monitoring, and when you are hitting hard and sound seems to "vanish" quickly, you need brighter and more sustainable cymbals. On big stages, the A's are better suited (HH new beats, 18 medium and 20 heavy ride), mixed with other brighter cymbals. Its so cool to be punching a ride in the chorus, hearing the sound opening up more and more, you start hitting even harder, it opens more and more, until you feel you are about to break the stick and the cymbal is still "is that all you've got?" :)
- for recording, use whatever you like, but keep in mind what you learned from this video and place the different cymbals where they will be hit nice and open while reaching the mics in a balanced volume all around.
Totally. The venue/room/stage matters immensely.
K's all the way for over 30 years.. They have aged beautifully.. 20" Custom Dry Ride, two 16" Dark Crashes, and a K bottom cymbal on top of a Quick Beat (A) bottom.. It makes me smile with pride just writing about them.. Thanks as always for a great informative video.
@@cDisturbed. absolutely
I'd pick the A's every day. While the K's sound a little nicer on their own, when it comes time to put them in a mix, the A's just sit in a much nicer part of the frequency spectrum. Especially on things like the crash on the ride, you are getting close to starting to meddle in the upper frequencies of vocals, and the extreme high end of a distorted guitar. Because of this they are likely to get buried into the mix (which might be what you are going for on a session). The shift brighter just leaves the A's in an easier to work with situation. There is a reason why a lot of the cymbal sounds, on a lot of older pop songs, feature brighter cymbals, it just fits better in that context.
I play K’s and I wouldn’t change a thing. I love how they explode then slowly mellow out...
the A Sweet Ride is one of the greatest cymbals ever created
Definitely
Agreed, I have one as my main ride and it's amazing! Works for pretty much every genre except for maybe metal. I record a lot with it and it sounds amazing and also great when I play live! It's a perfect match with my 16" K dark thin crash! Really love my Sweet ride!
Absolutely, just switched my K Custom 20" Ride for a 21" A Sweet. I regret nothing.
What about the k sweet ride? I have 2 a sweet rides (brilliant and non brilliant) , but i really curious about the k sweet 21 and the light 24
I disagree
I like the crash sound of the K's, quick and explosive with fast decay. I use Paiste 2002, has similar properties of decay. But really, I've seen drummers use mismatched cymbals to their advantage, and sound great. This comparison, the K's work for me.
Yeah, and there's NO law that states that you must consistently use cymbals from the same exact model line. Although you do see drummers with a bunch of cymbals from the same line.
I almost completely mix my cymbals, haha. I use the A custom 17” crash and A Custom 10” Splash, but I use an A 20” Earth Ride, 14” Heartbeat Studio hats, and an 18” K Custom Dark crash lol
I like them both but I prefer the A's just my personal preference
Lucky you haha
Mike Mike. I play A Customs. I’d honestly prefer them
The drum set I use for high school has a k crash and ride but an A hi hat
And it’s a really good sound
But either way they are too expensive to use at home
I've never played K's but I played the A's and really like them. But are K's better than A's?
@Club Soda Good point, anyways I put the A's on a slight advantage just because they are more affordable than the K's
Idk I’m thinking A Hi-hat, A ride but K crashes
weird i’m thinking the opposite!!!
Thanks for actually telling the one you prefer man!most don't.great job!
Awesome comparison video! Subscribed. Keep them coming,
thanks👍🏼
Oh man I've been waiting so long for someone to do this comparison.
Been pretty torn lately between the A and K for my 18" crash. Thanks for the vid!
This actually came at the perfect time. I am going into the studio in a weak and have been looking at renting ks. So thank you for helping!
They’re both two of my favorite line of cymbals. I prefer all of the K’s, excluding the new beats. I love those hats!
My reason for choosing the KCD series was the same as yours, particularly the crashes. After listening to every line I could find, this was the one (excluding extra dry cymbals of course) with NO unpleasant high overtones. Many cymbals record nicely but these sound incredible in an acoustic setting too.
Don't forget that the later A's are significantly thinner than the older line you are using here. I have an 18" A thin that sits perfectly between my 17 & 19 K thins. If anything, the A is thinner and opens up more readily. It's hard to categorise the lines these days as there is so much cross over. There's a lot of marketing going on with companies and there's nothing wrong with that, as it makes us feel good when we sit behind our favourite brands. It's good to be aware of it though. Really good thought prvoking video, thank you.
This video was really helpful! Thank you, Stephen!
Well done! I would say : the K ‘s I would play on a weekend, the A’s during the week.
Ks will always be my favorite, I love the crisp warm darkness they give off, especially 18in crash and their hihats
I use a combination of all of them - traditional A's , Custom A's , K's and other types as well. You can't just be a fan of one type... each brand and model presents unique sounds. At the end of the day as long as you play well ... thats all that matters!
i'm partial to standard K's myself, although live i use A's. but then as far as the collection goes, there's no preference. from A's to Wuhans and everything in between. gear videos are a guilty pleasure man. keep em comin!
Great comparison, very helpful, thanks!!!
Really interesting assessment, thanks. I bought a set of K Custom Darks a few years ago, really love their warm and easy sound. I found the hats just slightly insipid, so I use an old A Custom for the top, with the K Custom Dark underneath and that combo works great. The ride is just beautiful and crashes well also. I have a black stamp Paiste 2002 18" crash that sits nicely amongst the others and I've got my eye on a Paiste 22" Signature ride for completion of a really versatile set up. Peace and good health to all.
Thank you so much for this amazing comparison!
K's for ride and one crash, A's for hi-hat and the other crash. Mix it up!
Agree
Yup!
Definitely would have both 18" crashes
Great video, great channel.
I use mostly K's myself...big fan, especially of the Constantinople series.
If you can somehow borrow some cymbals from the other top manufacturers as well, it would be really cool if you could do the same comparision with some of these:
Sabian (AAX vs. HHX)
Paiste (2002 vs. Dark Energy)
Bosphorus (Traditional vs. Master)
Dream (Dark Matter vs. Bliss)
Istanbul Agop (Traditional vs. Agop Signature)
Meinl (Byzance Dark vs. Byzance Traditional)
Or don't...either way I'll still watch and like your channel.
What do you think of the ones that were made and Istanbul? 20 in period. And what do you think they're worth?
Wasn't so sure about the A hats but once you started incorporating the actual drums they really started to shine
This actually may have helped me in my next cymbal choice :0 good shit man!
friggen Joe Really looking into cymbals there are sooooo many cool cymbals in Zildjian that have eluded so many people. The custom darks and the regular A series like new beats and avedis are popular but look into the K hybrid series, K sweet series, K Constantinople, Kerope series, or even the new S series. I like K better but look into the deeper A lines and there are a few good things in there too. Seriously good cymbals in all of those line ups!
@@allanenglandthedrummer6451 Yep..agreed. K Constantinople are the best sounding cymbals I've ever played, especially their ride cymbals...so warm and silky and smooth.
(P.S. it helps to say those last six words in that silly Adam Sandler voice)
I am blessed to have a very very nice array of cymbals that I have acquired over the years. When I was playing out my favorite hi hats were 15"a zild.new beat.,20" a zild.ping ride,and 16" -18" a zild.thin crashes.They worked for rock,country,and blues.Fast forward to now in my studio I prefer 13-1/4 K hybrid hihats,16"&18" k session crashes,21"k hybrid ride and 14"&16" pstx Swiss effects cymbals by paiste.
I play seven K Custom Darks, with the exception of a Paiste 2002 SE hi-hat for brightness, and last time I was in a studio the engineer was impressed by the sound of the cymbals when recorded.
I love my Zildjian K's. Depending on what I'm doing I prefer either K's or A Customs, both record really well. Zildjian A's have never really impressed me much. Great comparison vid!
Great video man! Thanks so much for this!
Thanks Stephen was going to buy a pair of 14 " new beats now you got me thinking also like the sound of the k's
Mix and match the hi hat cymbals and you'll get many more sounds. K Custom over A New Beat, K over Z and A New Beat over K bottom. Try it...there are various combos for different kinds of music.
Well done man. Thanks for the breakdown
This was really helpful and exactly what I needed to listen to.
Very helpful video comparison!
First comment and btw Zildjian K for the win!!! I just ordered some K Custom Hybrid Limited Reversible Hi-hats which I am super excited for! Oh and nice channel I’ve been subscribed for a while now cause you know what you’re talking about.
good job of illustrating nuanced differences between two general types, louder/brighter, softer/lower toned especially for people who don't have access to a variety of makers and lines. Myself I prefer lighter, darker timbered cymbals which I also play quiet in general, though there are times and music genres or even specific pieces of music I finder brighter/louder cymbals fit the bill better than darker/softer cymbals.
I would love to see a vid comparing Ks with A Customs. I've had a full set of A Customs (14" Fast Crash, 15" Projection Hats, 17" Crash, 18" EFX Crash, 20" Projection Crash, 22" Medium Ride) for years and am interested in adding some Ks to my collection.
Nice comparison video. I own 2017 A's and they are thinner than the older series. Still brighter than K's of any sort. That's by design, of course. The K custom dark's I have are from 15 years ago and are still among my favorites for all the reasons mentioned here. I have 2 kits setup so it's easy to swap out for whatever style or mood I'm in.
Also have too many hats and rides to mention but it's what makes this hobby fun and interesting.
I'm not a diehard Zildjian user, but the A Customs are some of the best looking and sounding cymbals out there
Definitely an interesting video. As a recording engineer, something that a whole lot of people don't think about is swapping out mics to change how things like cymbals sound in a mix. For example, if someone comes in and they have really bright cymbals, I might use something like a pair of Audix ADX51's to dull them up a little bit. If they're too dark, I'll reach for some AKG 451's because they typically have a much brighter sound. If they're sounding fine and I want a neutral mic, I'll reach for some Lewitt LCT 340's.
Depends on how they fit into the context of the music/overall mix. There's scenarios where one works better than the other, and vice versa.
I think personally there’s a big difference even between the normal K line and the K Customs, which you showed here. I personally own the regular 14” K hats and 20” ride and prefer those to the K Customs, but I also understand it’s all a personal preference. It might have been worth noting that these aren’t regular Ks so some viewers don’t get confused.
Lee Austin would have been better to compare K and A. Not K custom and A
Oh man, a comparison between things I actually have! I like playing the K (custom dark) better, but recording depends on the music I'm playing, and the sizes I have available (I have way more range with the A). I think it's a fair comparison. Good stuff man.
Great video, it did help me to decide between the Zildjian Studio Recording versus the Zildjian K Sweet.
Great review, very useful!
Lovin’ my new 17” K. Totally agree they sound great and, for me, record great.
I've got a 17'' K custom dark crash that I LOVE!
Even within the same style, the difference in weight/thickness makes a difference. For instance, my 18" A Medium Crash sounds different from my 18" A Medium-Thin Crash - much more than you would think. A little extra detail in WHICH thickness you are using in all of them would help.
Good comparison. I have many of the same cymbals you tested, and I also prefer the K's. The Custom Dark sound great. As you said, the 20" ride is a little washy. I play in a fairly loud bar band and that cymbal is unusable in that situation. But with the blues trio I play with, it's great as a main ride for quieter situations, or as a left-side ride/crash for louder gigs. I recently picked up a 22" K Dark Medium Ride, and it is perfect for the rock band. Still has that dark K sound, but you can lay into it without it washing out. All that being said, a lot of great drummers play Zildjian A's. Peter Erskine uses New Beats, and many, many rock drummers use the A rides and crashes.
This video was really helpful - thanks, Stephen. If you can borrow more cymbals for similar comparisons, that would be great - the format was really good/helpful. Cheers!
Thank you for this. I was debating between A's and K's and ended up with a full set of K Darks (16",17",18",20" & 14" hats). Love them for basement playing..
A's have been my favorite for years, but TBH I have them BOTH on my kits and perform and record regularly with both at the same time. I really enjoy them!
Super accurate breakdown of these cymbals. I’ve thought the same thing about the ride comparison. I just switched from the A Sweet Ride to the K Custom Dark Ride and I do miss some elements the sweet ride brings to the table, but overall much prefer the K’s as a series.
I am just a basement player. I love the K crashes and A hats and ride. Thank you for the video!
My favourite sounding and feeling cymbals, especially when I'm playing unaccompanied or in low-volume settings, are the K Custom Darks for the past 20 years or more. In a higher volume, live situation the A Zildjians are often the better choice, but not as complex or pleasing to my ears. The bottom line as I see it...so many great-sounding cymbals, so little money.
Lets be real both of them are apsolute bangers
Great vid, I dig the K’s for that darker sound…great groove man.
I've had A Mastersound Hats and K Hats, A Medium Thin Crash and Sweet Ride and K Custom Dark Crash, as well as a K Custom Organic Ride. As I've gotten older, I have come to prefer to lushness of the K sound, but the A's definitely have their place. I also used to have the A Custom Projection Crash. If you really want some explosion, get that or an EFX cymbal. Holy moly. All in all, K has become a more pleasing sound to my ear.
Well made video and solid insights, especially where you said they are suited to how you play...bingo, we are all different.
I like mixning them! I'll always have my A sweet ride and then usually mixed with K crashes(Usually Dark thin) and an A custom hi hat
Good stuff like always Stephen. I personally prefer K's I like the darker thinner feel
I think they both sound great. The A's to me represent the classic Zildjian sound which I love.
I came for the cymbal comparison, which was okay and interesting enough to watch. I subscribed because of the groove and the snare sound.
Great review, I have been using the A’s and have been looking at the K’s. Interestingly enough is I use Avedis Cymbals with my church that are I don’t know how old, they have nice patina to them and I think they sound better than my box set A’s and give the K’s you demonstrated a good run for the money
This really is a loaded question, as you say, because there are SOOOOOO many variables. I have different sets of cymbals for different settings: small, large, indoor, outdoor, carpeted, wood or tile floors, up on stage or down on floor in front of stage, portable small dance floor on top of carpet. Every one of these settings makes each of my sets of cymbals sound differently. When I accept a job, my first question is about the room, floor and walls.
Don't forget about the design and shape of the cymbal within A or K. Bell size, shape, hammering, etc.
Then there is the matter of sticks. The kind of wood. Big, small, thick, thin, short long, nylon tip or wood tip, shape of tip. Brushes also come in different designs, sizes and designs. Rods. The list goes on and on.
"One size does not fit all". I bought my oldest set of cymbals back in the 60's and they still travel with me to all of my jobs, whether I use them or not. I've probably gotten dozens of different sounds from them because of all of the above.
Still, the above info is very interesting. Thank you.
Nice comparison! I also had the K and A series. I found the K series brighter in the mix, the A series were warmer and fuller in my opinion
I have all Sabian HHX'S [ all signature types] and they equate to the K's. I do have the Zildjian Mastersound Hats, I think A's, and I love them. Great chick. Nice presentation and I think all the Cymbals sound great. For me, going back and forth would confuse me. Thanks!!
For me personally, A's are good for live situations while K's are best used for recordings. Brighter cymbals are a bit of a hassle when it comes to EQing because it has so many spikey frequencies that you have to get rid of while darker cymbals can sound great after a few EQ moves. K's are also great for bar shows or jazz shows. A's probably sound better when you're actually playing at a venue. Although, one of my favorite rides is the Sweet Ride. I do want to eventually invest in possibly a K Light Ride or a Constantinople Ride for the rock stuff I do.
K's, no doubt, by the way, keep up with the channel, you're doing it really well
I've always preferred A Zildjians, but both sound great. Thanks for the video!
Great video 👍 thank you🎶🥁🎶
Great video. I’m shopping for cymbals right now and was thinking A’s. the K sound really good. Gonna have to try some out. I have a 21” sweet ride that I love because of the wash it generates
Thanks for feeding my curiosity!
i heard the 16" K crash to be brighter than the A crash. I heard variations of all of these cymbols and do agree its ultimately up the INDIVIDUALS EARS and their preference...... BUT thank you for your review and video, and i also want to say i think youre a very good host, reviwer, and drummer! all the best ~
Rocky Balboa I thought it sounded brighter as well. I had a set of A cymbals & while I liked the ride & hats alright, I pretty much hated the 16 & 18” crashes. I heard the same sound in this video. They really bother my ears. My old kit, when I was a kid playing punk/thrash stuff, was a K 21” ride & an 18” Paiste Rude crash/ride. They mixed well together, with a nice, dark tone. The Paistes would sustain forever, but some tape calmed em down.
I’ve watched quite a few of these comparison videos & come to the conclusion that I just don’t like Zildjian crash cymbals all that much. I’m good with their rides, but Paiste, Meinl, UFIP & Bosphorus all have nicer crashes & hats to my ears. Particularly Paiste & Meinl.
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 Hi. Well, ultimately it all comes down to your ears. my ears know what they like and what they hear. as do all the other musicians. so its just a preference thing. And what kind of sounds youre looking for too.
Good information, thanks
A sweet ride, K 18 and 14 hats, plus a 17" k medium thin dark - a perfect setup
These A’s are the pre 2013 refresh right? If so the newer ones sound amazing. Great review.
Definitely my A's and my K's have different musical applications. Between the two , I gravitate to my K's. But my most favorite versatile cymbals are my constantinople's! They sound good live and on recordings
thanks for that information comparing the k and a cymbals
Just wanted to say thx for making this 👍🏻
Depends on music, but Love As, Adore Ks. I am not a hard hitter. Really like Meinl Byzance also, as well as 14" zildjian Mastersound hats for country, big band and rock.
Thanks for the great info bro, here is a tip that has worked for me - if you need the hi-hat to cut more, just turn it upside down and put the bottom cymbal on top. Or put the bottom K on top of the bottom A... I think that would actually be awesome! :D
Informative! I now know the difference in high in cymbals.
The Paistes I've played (mostly Signature and its sub-lines) all seem to have a very refined, controlled, well-balanced character (more than any other brand) that makes for great recording (and the wash never seems to get out of control), but sometimes you want something grittier/dirtier. My Paiste Dark Energy cymbals are great, as are most of my Zildjians (I have some A's I'm no longer that fond of), but nowadays I favor my Istanbul Agop Signatures (other than the weak bells) and Craig Lauritsen customs.
Thank you for posting this video. I have a K Custom Dark crash that I absolutely love. I got for a bargain as it has a crack in it - but it still perform.
However at a gig I hired some A’s and I was impressed. The A’s are slightly cheaper here in the UK, but I’m a traditionalist. Would love to recreate Steve Gadd sound!
I love the Ks! I hear too many individual frequencies on the As, which kinda hurts my ears. As a recording engineer I agree with Stephen, I'd be doing a lot less notching in the overhead EQ with the Ks.
Great comparison! However, the newer A's are thinner and much darker. I purchased the A Medium Thin crashes 16/18 in 2016 and they are sonically almost perfectly in between the Ks and As you demonstrated in this video. Even the New Beats and Sweet Ride are lighter now.
Why are the two crashes always 16” and 18”?
I have a 17” K Dark Crash Thin, and a 19” K Hybrid Crash.
Oh yeah, ... I also paired a K Constantinople Top with a New Beat Bottom. The KC’s were too quiet and the NB’s not washy enough.
And I just picked up the A 18” Crash-Ride because it had more stick definition than my K Custom 22” Dark Ride.
Thanks for the demo. Been debating on the upgrade. By the way, is your drum a pacific set - originally wrapped in red?
Both lines are awesome, it really depends on the type of music you play. I think K's fit more to softer genres and A's to louder because they cut trough more as they are brighter.
i have the A's and i really love them , i bought one K 18 for 7 dls and i didn't like it but it gave me 200 bucks !
Any ideas on how to learn which cymbal you're looking at if the decals are all gone?
I agree, my ride is pretty dark and it tends to get lost in the middle of all the other sounds. I like the sound of the A crash but maybe not as much as the K. For the Hat ether will do. So probably a mix of both might provide so latitude in playing.
I’ll probably always have my k custom ride (unless I wanna use my sweet ride), k master hats and 17 k dark crash....those are the ultimate for my ears and my style. I’ve been a k fanatic for years. But some of the a custom crashes are incredible and new beats are THE definitive hi hat. As long as it sounds good and gives you confidence, there’s no right or wrong answer, really.
Both sound great on the video
A Custom are the best for rock/metal. They just are! Volume, wash and thier brilliance is exceptional for stage and studio.
What kit are you using? The kick is one of my favorite kick sounds. I don't hear enough sounding that good.
What are you using for overheads / room mic(s)? Are you compressing those tracks in your mix down process? I find that cymbal selection depends mostly on the style (AAX or 2002 for rock vs K's or Byzance for jazz) and what kind of processing is applied during mixing. Certain cymbals like compression, others don't. Some hi hat mics like condensers, others dynamics, other hats don't take well to close micing at all. It all depends!