The setup mistake preventing FAST FILLS
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 тра 2024
- → Grow faster by KNOWING WHAT TO PRACTICE! Download the “3-Part Practice Routine” guide for busy drummers:
www.thenonglamorousdrummer.com/the-3-part-daily-practice-routine
It’s very possible that your rack tom placement is keeping you from playing fast fills as smoothly as you’d like.
If you’re dealing with clumsy fills around the kit where your sticks are clicking, sticks are hitting rims, and nothing sounds or feels as clean as it should, today’s lesson is for you.
Without finding YOUR perfect rack tom placement and getting your drums’ positions optimized for YOUR body, you’re going to struggle to play fills confidently, smoothly, and musically around the kit.
Today I’m showing you how to find your ideal rack tom placement, but we’re also going to examine the potentially much bigger problem at play here. This will be fun. :) YOU CAN DO THIS!
I believe that ANYONE can learn the drums, and I believe you’re far more capable of becoming a great drummer than you think you are. Don’t sell yourself short! SUBSCRIBE for more Non Glamorous videos that get straight to the point of solving drumming frustration. Stay Non Glamorous, Everyone!
Check out thenonglamorousdrummer.com for more content, including free e-guides designed to fast-track your drumming progress!
Wow how correct you are. This morning before church I raised my throne by about 2" and what a difference. It was like I was dancing on top of my kit. Our worship team leader even commented on how I played with so much more confidence.
Maybe now see if anything else needs adjusting to accommodate the corraction
Soooo, I know it's not necessarily recommended, but I turned my bass drum around so that the rack toms were closer to me. I'm short, so there's only so far that I can raise my throne without just standing up. I have my kit on a carpet, so even though my spurs are on the opposite side, my kick doesn't move. Ergonomically, making that switch made all the difference. I wasn't reaching for the toms like I'd had to do before. Switching things around (switching the heads around as well) doesn't seem to have made a difference sound-wise, either.
Haha. I did the exact same thing a few months ago
How do you turn bass drum around?
@flagella1337 you just physically rotate the bass drum 180 degrees. Swap the heads accordingly.
This is only worth your time if your bass drum has a t bar for racking toms.
Get side stand clamps and mount the toms there. I also hated that about my first kit.
@isdunham226 Mitch Mitchell was a short guy too and look at what he could do ! 😀
He’s absolutely right about the bigger problem. I was constantly hitting my sticks while playing the snare and high hat and anytime I tried to do a fill. At that point I hadn’t opened up “Stick Control” yet. Once I got good at the first page, just doing singles, and I really focused on developing my grip and hand technique… I now never hit my sticks together. It didn’t take long at all.
howd you improve so much when this comment was only a day after the video was released?
Did I say that the video made me better? Or did I say that after doing stick control exercises for some time, I finally was able stop hitting my sticks together. Maybe you should be watching videos on how to read. Maybe look up “Confirm” so you can have an understanding of why I left my comment. You also might want to consider taking lessons instead of watching videos cause I’m guessing you really need someone to walk you through things.
Maybe you should improve your attitude.
Great advice and perfect timing as this is what I'm focussing on. Thank you!
Great video, it is cool to see you take a "deep dive" into this subject. Thanks!
You are SO spot on! I spent a couple of decades frustrated with deep toms on several 5 piece Tama Rockstar kits I’ve owned playing worship. Could never get those toms low enough without hitting my kick. 😣 To make matters worse, I’m 5’7” so raising my throne could only take me so far. The good news is my granddaughter started playing drums, so I gave her my kit and replaced it with a new Tama 7 piece Superstar Classic kit with much less deeper toms. Now, life is good! Thanks for pointing this out, I think many struggling with it without even knowing their options. 😎👍🏻
Drummer of 15 years here. Great thoughts. Some super fundamental stuff I've never thought of combined with some good reminders.
I agree so much about hitting singles around the kit slowly and experimenting with different articulations. Building that muscle memory is crucial to free up your attention towards other elements of performing (song structure, dynamics, writing parts, active listening, etc.).
I just went straight to the kit and lowered my rack tom 5 or 6 inches. Wow.
Game changer-
Thank you SO MUCH for what you do here..
Ive been following you for probably a dozen years.
Youve helped me so much.
I might raise my throne too.
This worked wonders for me Stephen, I’m a fairly recent subscriber but between working on my middle finger fulcrum and adjusting my kit as per this video my playing his improved recently. Self taught drummer for a little less than 2 years. Thanks!
Thank you so much as always! God bless you sharing and caring!!!
I fractured my wrist a few years ago and trying to get back to being comfortable playing has been tough. I think I'm going to just disassemble my kit and start over with trying to get it setup. I have bigger drums too so will try getting setup now with the throne adjusted a bit higher. Thanks for the tips!
Thank you! I struggled with this problem for years, and got some of it away by using my rule of "the space between the small tom and floor tom shouldn't be more than (rule #1) the distance between one's thumb and pinky. However, another problem that I blew up in to a full-time neurosis is the small tom angle. So, instead of sitting high. one could sit really low, put the snare and the small tom to a steep "80's drummer" angle and not have to travel with the arms extending outwards. So, rule #2 for me being: the more your elbow has to extend when measured horizontally, the more problems you get. People playing traditional grip actually have an advantage here. I also do this for my cymbals nowadays. "High" isn't far away. if you can reach an object with your arms (the thing between the shoulder and elbow) strapped to your side, you're fine. If you have to extend your arm to be able to do anything, it interferes with your balance when you are sitting high.
Al Foster and 80's Lars Ulrich seemed to have known this. I am not going back to sitting low, but I sometimes wish I could (am afraid of my knees). So, in the meantime, my small toms is about as high as it gets and in an angle as steep as possible, without the drumhead taking damage. Also, the bass drum being far away enough so that my floor tom is more, from a directional metaphor perspective, "to my front...and just a bit offset" instead of being to my "side". Rule #3: if you have to pull your arms back in to access your floor tom, you'd better learn to play to the bass drum being further away and rethink your floor tom positioning.
tl:dr: your optimum angle is nice if I was playing on a 10". but for my 12" I go for more drastic measures.
I found that when I sat higher on my seat, it wasn’t getting a sore thigh. Couldn’t believe a simple thing helped me with my kick drumming but also being above the toms to move around. Great video
This is so helpful! Unfortunately, the kit I have to practice on in my rental space has the rack tom mounted in the middle of the kick and it can't be moved much. No wonder I always feel like it's too far away! And no wonder I love it when the backline kit at gigs is set up closer/better/more comfortably. Thanks, Stephen for all your incredibly helpful videos and educational material!!
I like how when I start thinking of how to work on and improve technique you put up a video on the topic
Lots of great advice....for taller people! 🤷🏼♂️ I've followed the guidance and have got some wood blocks sellotaped to my feet 😁 👍🏼
Great video Stephen and great advice. Sold my big Ludwig kit 30 years ago and I've been using my small Eames kit ever since with no issues. Sitting too high could pose lower back problems as you get older. Thanks for posting!
Hello I'm born drummer of over 50 years I'm 61 now This is an excellent in depth explanation of something I spent years trying to get exactly right especially once I was grown always trying different things and playing all genres using matched and traditional Everything to find out what I'm comfortable with Eventually I got everything right Great lesson After living and experiencing all that through e years I couldn't have said it better Good work and Greetings from Chicago
Great advice 😊
Lot`s of good points, especially the last one, great drummers still sound great on kits they didn`t set up.
👍 Played for years before one day having the epiphany to make these adjustments. Definitely makes a huge difference. 👍
Great video. I hardly touch my floor Tom as a beginner and now I know it’s because it’s not against my right leg. I need to haul in that Tom as well as practice my grip and singles. Maybe nudge up my seat. Thank you sooooo much.
Great video...an important, much overlooked part of playing. One thing I learned over a short amount of time (especially as a working drummer) is there has to be an economy to one's playing, especially playing a 2-3 hour gig. Overreach, larger drums, improper leg angles, unnecessary extra body movements due to poor shell placement... these are things that will keep you from progressing to the next level. You'll be too busy fighting you're kit. Also- small drums are great- especially if you know how to tune.
I definitely went the "smaller drums" route. I had a nice set of maple drums for a decade- 10 and 12 over a 22 on a tom stand. Sold them right before the pandemic.
About six months later, I bought a cheap Pearl Export from the 80's. 12x12 tom mounted to the 22. Never could get that monstrosity feeling comfortable. Then I took it out for a gig and remember absolutely hating playing it.
Then I did a floor tom kick conversion and enjoyed it so much that I bought a second kit with a 10x6 over a 16" kick with a 13" floor. The flexibility of tom placement was insane, and it was the last nail in the coffin of that Pearl Export.
Most recently I bought a 10, 12, 14, 20 Sonor kit with a tom stand and it's the best of both worlds- the depth of the kick that the 16 sometimes lacks, but it's super flexible. The Pearl is stacked in the corner and listed on Marketplace.
10 12 14 20 were the magic sizes for me as well. Much easier to get them into closer groupings.
I have an 18" kick, and I love how it lets me play above the entire kit. Everyhing is around elbow height.
Sitting too high is a common limitation; optimal posture for balance, endurance & maximum Leg/foot movement is knees @ 90°. Same with arms/elbows & snare.
Good solution; I have a 16" kik, sounds like a cannon with mic. & lov it for same reason, but would prefer 18"
I have 2 - 18x20s (ddrum & crush) and love them
A thing I did was to set up all of my cymbals, snare drum, and toms in their ideal spots, then try to slide the bass drum into that mess while making necessary adjustments. It gets you in the ball park faster and shows you if you need to buy smaller drums
Love these videos. It’s incredible what you can pick up and learn just from pointers and advice from people who have knowledge to impart. I’ve never had any lessons but my technique and general knowledge of drumming has significantly increased from people like you 🫡
Great info! As a beginner drummer, I've been trying to think about this a lot and it's helping me get better with fills and positions. I'm also fairly tall (6'1") so those issues cropped up for me as well. 😂
Smaller drums; I could not agree with you more. I am both a professional, gigging, drummer, and a church drummer. I play the same sizes you do. I know some people are really into vintage and/or oversized drums. That does not appeal to me at all.
Thanks for all your lessons! Very helpful- what is that thing (chain?) on your snare drum called and what’s the purpose?
Love my 20" Gretsch kick. Plenty of room for my 10 and 12 rack, and my square 14 floor tom sits up a bit higher because I suspend it from my ride stand, so there is plenty of room for the sound to get out from underneath it. Some people have their floor toms sitting low, but I like at least my first ft to be at the same height as my snare.
I started using a little Maxitone Japanese 20in Kick and it made a huge difference in my rack tom mounting, that little 60's stencil kick has got a nice low end and punch. I also recently got a 60's Japanese Pearl Challenger jazz kit with another little 20in Kick that packs a punch. They are both Mahogany which I'd never played and was surprised at how beefy and low they get
The problem with this approach to rack tom placement is that it's too far away for most people. A bit higher makes the drum reachable without leaning forward. This is because the arm has significantly more reach the closer it is to horizontal. I apply the same principle to my ride placement. I place the bell directly horizontal with my shoulder joint or just slightly below. This means I can reach the bell without leaning and I'm not cramped by the rest of the cymbal.
Have to say compared to new drum styles (2 different sized mounted toms) The Classic Gretsch double 12" mounted took away a lot of this issue. You could easily adjust tilt front/back/and side to side.
I have found after setting up a few times that my Toms do not sit straight across but slightly forward on the left and back on the right, allowing me much easier movement around the set.
Wasn't bad for a single base mount.
A few weeks ago, I noticed I was slouching on the throne, and by just sitting up straight (putting my arms (and eyes) a couple inches higher), gave me a better feel as I looked over the kit.
I also just shifted my two rack toms "a slot" to the left. They were in the typical over the bass position, but now they are centered behind the snare. Not only does this seem to make more sense, since we sit facing the snare anyway, but it allows a more natural flow onto the two floor toms. In the over the bass position, it felt like this jerky change of direction going from rack tom 2 to floor tom 1 (a hook, instead of a nice curve).
Good info Stephen! You mentioned that you are 6'4", I am 5"4". I too sometimes mounted my rack tom on a snare stand. One trick that I learned years ago was to angle my bass drum a little to the right. Even just a few inches made more room for the rack tom. I've seen some guys take this to an extreme where it looks like they are using a double bass set up without the left side bass drum (see Vinnie Appice's set up). My feeling is you need to find the ideal height for you to sit at that works with your legs and feet, then work on positioning the drums around that. And yes, smaller drums are a great option! Thanks again for the great info Stephen!
I've done the same thing years ago. And yes, I took it to the extreme, like V. Appice (though I had not paid attention to his setup back then).
I found that this was the natural angle for my foot. The easier, more ergonomic positioning of the tom (or toms), regardless of their depth, was an extra bonus.
The only problem is that I can't mount the toms on the bass drum because the will be too far away.
But that's what stands are for. ☺
Gotta have that Tama single tom stand. Get that rack tom placed perfectly. And a 20” kick drum is the best.
I can dig it. I’m a 6’4” drummer myself🥁
Mostly it depends on what feels good to you after experimenting with different angles, distances, etc. and you eventually find that positioning that feels the best for you. Also, on fills if you understand lead and follow with the right and left stick, and you master it, you will be faster on the fills and smoother on the return without clacking your sticks together. I do however see some drummers set up where nothing seems close enough for efficient movement and they have to move way too much to play them. I never understood that logic.
a raised drum throne. high enough to hit your snare with out your hand hitting your thigh.
also my kick pedal batter is extended to its max so i get good release action.
my foot is moving up n down on the pedal instead of it sitting there using ankle pivot.
snare mic is normally in between my snare & hats - not too close to the rim but yet high enough so it picks up the hats.( thats just for minimal mic inputs)
tom height & tilt is always about how high you want to reach for it.
doing hits from the snare to T1 & then floor.
those are just my set ups. it varies abit depending on how i want to play that gig.
An easy playing gig compared to hard hitting rock or reggae.
for each style i set my kit accordingly.
My old set-up that i settled on was double offset bass pedals, which put the bass-drum dead-centre in front of me. Then i could have two mounted toms off the snare like Mikey Mouse ears. It also allowed me to get the floor-tom closer to me - my snare and floor-tom were level with each other.
I love the Yamaha stage custom drum series because the drum sizes are smaller and the wood is Birch I’m thinking about trying a 18x15 inch bass drum because the church I play at is a small room
Got my used kit a year ago. I'm only 5'5", have had tom placement/BD issues from the beginning. I've done everything suggested in this vid, think I'll have to get new(er) kit better suited to my size.
I love gretsch drums man. I predominantly a metal drummer and their maple shells sound incredible
Gretsch bell brass snare drums are also worth a slap 👈
I'm a jazz guy mostly and I decided on Gretsch drums years ago because they sound so good, regardless of what style of music you play.
I also like the less popular brands - if I ever played acoustics again, I'd use Gretch, Yamaha, Ludwig of Premier - I just don't ever run with the sheeple. 😊
For one up one down or one up 2 down drummers, like myself, i also advise you to work out whether your high tom is better on the left or right of your bass drum. I keep my high tom to the right of the kit. I like the left side right side set up i have. I feel less cuttered behind the kit and suprisingly enough it makes my playing feel and sound cleaner. Think tidy desk tidy mind mentality. I do have a slightly right facing seating position as my hihat has a clutch and its strangely positioned a bit more left than most people and i have a double bass pedel. Basically, dont worry about having a strange looking kit. If it works for you it works for you and thats what matters.
I'm downsizing my bass drum partially due to rack tom ergonomics. I want a more focused bass drum sound, but I also want to be able to shove those toms right down low. Will also downsize my toms eventually.
Hey Stephan buy some TNR isolation mounts for your rack tom snare basket and you'll even get more resonance 👍
I have the opposite problem from what you have, I am a 5’1” petite female. I do like my acoustic kit with the 22” kick (I play rock) but, yes, have had to put my rack toms a bit higher than I would like. I got a Gibraltar rack, and that helped immensely, but the right rack tom is some ½” above the kick (I keep a pad between them so if the tom sags it won’t damage the kick) and I would like it to be lower. One of the problems is that I really like my Tama Starclassic kit!
One great solution would be a remote kick pedal that would allow you to put the kick anywhere within reach of the cable. I have a DW remote HH pedal and find it to be great! Don’t have to keep the pedal directly under the HH, can position it wherever you want. With the kick further out you could position the toms optimally for ergonomics. But haven’t found anyone that makes that piece of kit. I might try and put one together. Wish DW would make something similar to the remote HH pedal for the kick.
You could try a double kick pedal and remove one of the beaters.
Maybe this is a dumb question but couldn’t a cajon kick pedal be used like this? Just swap out the beater if it’s the wrong type for your style? @jadedillon5201
At 5'4", I found the ideal set up is this...virgin bass, 2 toms to left and mounted deep tom to right of bass drum.
Hard Rain covering Everything’s Broken By Bob Dylan 11-06-2017
ua-cam.com/video/-aGNNAlPL-U/v-deo.html
Another solution to consider when you "stab" the tom is to incline it more towards you. I used to keep it super flat and inclining solved the problem for me. Great video btw!!
I'm pretty short, so I never had any other option than inclining the toms. Thus I play really "behind" the kit instead of above it, and that's what works for me.
I made it work by trial and error with a 13" rack tom and a 22" kick, but the next kit I'm gonna get will be smaller for sure. Actually we just got a new *super small* Tama Pancake kit for my acoustic pop band, no issues with adjustments there. But while not having tried yet, I don't think it's the right stuff for my metal band. xD
Another solution might be to put a little more angle in your rack tom(s), more angled heads less parallel to the floor.. As you do that you can lower them a little bit at the same time. My set has a 22 kick (too big), 10 and 12 rack toms and 14 floor tom. I'm 5 7 so sitting too much higher is a problem, so I have my rack toms angled a bit more. Seems to work pretty well.
Major improvement from raising my throne a rew inches. Wow Thanks Stephen!
I slept on throne height way too long, it's amazing how raising it improved virtually every aspect about my foot technique.
I’ve noticed a lot of people mention to go to a store to play on sets to see how they sound/feel. I live in a larger city and can’t find a single music store with a drum kit setup in store. Not even one of the three Guitar Centers nearby.
Any tips to help with e-kit (Simmons Titan 50) setup? I dunno if I'm sitting too low but I can't really adjust the kit much. I wonder if my issue is that they aren't angled and the edge of the pads are getting in the way?
I found that flattening out my toms and raising my throne helped me improve with fills and rolls
Yes, you'll often see drummers with that kind of set up - I can also never understand why some drummers put their cymbals about a meter higher than the kit! 😳
@IansDrumsandBass I've often wondered this too. My guess is for showmanship. I mean it does look cool seeing the drummer flailing their arms around and hitting things all around them and sounding good.
@@seraeirian2 👍🏻
@@seraeirian2In addition to showmanship, some drummers choose to do it so that the mix is better (see Mike Mangini’s setup) or so that they use things in different ways (Baard Kolstad put his china over his shoulder so that he would use it less)
@@IansDrumsandBass there are plenty of good drummers out there who never rearranged their kit. Just sat down to learn how to play and always kept their kit set up that way.
10:13 I had a 14” floor Tom on my first kit and I never could get the low end I wanted on it. 20” kick drums are usually more than adequate, though.
Pro tip for presenting, if you can put your notes closer to the camera/behind the camera you won't be looking away as much and it elevates the presentation from "very good amateur" to "professional who knows what they're talking about"
I find it quite distracting when the presenter is looking away for their notes.
Really good information you're providing here, I've come to a lot of the same conclusions throughout my career
Good video. I'm 6'2". Need my floor toms higher😬
One aspect you didn’t cover is raising the snare to a more appropriate level for your seat height. Yours seems incredibly low to the point it’s not even in the picture when the front camera is on. Look at
Todd Sucherman or the late Neil Peart. Or Simon Phillips! Their rack toms are also way higher than 2” above the snare. It places the player in the kit rather than over the kit.
Those guys were not beginners struggling with navigating the kit and striking sticks together.
@@totallyfrozenSo this is a “training wheels” setup plan?
The overhead shots show that you sit like many other drummers do. Your bass drum is north of where you sit, you are pointing left more or less 45 degrees off. When you go from rack tom to floor tom you have to twist farther than if you were planted north. In other words, your hi-hat should go further up, in line with the bass drum pedal. Do you get what I'm talking about?
I get it. I recently saw Clairo’s drummer and at first glance, I thought he had his hi hat to the right of the tom because he had it so close that I didn’t see any obvious cross sticking. At another glance, I saw that he does still keep it left of the tom, but places it somewhat north of the snare rather than west of it.
this is why i like fast shallow rack toms, sound great and easier to handle
is this an endorsement for fur lined slippers as the official bass pedal shoe?
I'm 6'5" and use a roc n soc nitro gas throne and it won't go as high as I'd like it to. Any suggestions on thrones for tall drummers?
Well, I would also contend that separation between the drums in height could also counterintuitively bring them closer. Reaching for everything “on a flat plane” could sometimes be a greater movement than to just move your arms up & down. Separation in height also makes it easier to hit every drum with assertiveness and power. Examples could be: John Bonham, Billy Cobham, Dave Grohl, Dave Weckl etc.
Having said that I totally agree that one should focus on placement and try to optimize the kit out of your specific needs and conditions 👍🏻🤩
Remember those power toms were the thing for awhile, nightmare for putting where you really needed them cause of all that depth, incredible how things have changed
If you were using the kick mount, couldn't you flip the kick around getting the toms closer?
You could use programmable Electronic drum pads.
I started playing a big kit in the 60's as a self-taught rock drummer before I found a jazz drummer (not instructor) who taught me on a one-on-one basis. I had to unlearn everything I had created a habit of doing, and start at the beginning - just like the kid in Karate Kid who learned from Mr. Miyagi. This enabled me to start playing soft jazz in the 70's with trios and quartets.
During this journey, I still had no instruction on the ergonomics of moving around the kit. This took time, patience and many, many hours of experimenting until I found the perfect setup. It turns out that it took decades to learn what I just saw in this video.
Joe Walsh had a song, "Analog Man in a Digital World" which describes the difference of learning in the past before there was such a thing as UA-cam.
Thank you, Stephen Clark, for reinforcing what I had to learn the hard way. Everything you show here is perfect!
I started playing drums at 13. I am now 66. I never cared about clean. I cared about fast, and about the latest feel or fill. I started studying martial arts in my mid fifties. Suddenly I cared about clean and accurate as the paramount ingredients to successful sparring. To do so, I needed to LOOK at my target. I also need to POSITION my body (parts) to anticipate my attack or to fend off my opponent’s offense. LOOK at your drums and cymbals when you play. POSITION your body to get where you want to go. Know what you want to do before you start. Sounds crazy, but sound out your stuff with your mouth and brain. Then put it to the heads. Even Dave Weckl said that you should be able to “dance’ to your own drumming when you are playing the drums.
Another thing is do you play traditional or match, bc older jazz drummers who play traditional youl notice dont mind a high flat tom, bc the motion required if you look at the geometry of the left hand swinging motion it actually makes more sense to have the time higher and flat but more drummers who played match grip start naively thinking they will "drag" their left or right hand and are uninformed as to what will eventually be with their full range of motion if they were instructed properly so I think you were right in saying the problem is usually more the person & less the placement because more people today are self taught, but I think when watching other drummers don't realize how important watching the full range of the sticks motion is to the placement of the tom, because if they were watching themselves they would realize that they haven't placed enough emphasis on correct technique and their wrists and elbows and shoulders and worrying more about like you said just slow full range stick movements & r too concerned speed and skip over the technique part and it's very hard to undo bad habits, but I would suggest people try to fill in the gaps to compensate for their technical weaknesses...e.g. if you think, oh btw any beginner to intermediate drummer placing any emphasis on the Tom placement because of the desire to drag the sticks from Tom to snare, should jus nix the idea of dragging before getting this right first, and that is if you think your time is too far away or two flat like I level parallel then exaggerate the distance even more, as a type of practice that would be similar to strengthening your fingers on an acoustic guitar so that when you play on an electric it seems very easy.. so I mean if you think you're having trouble because your Tom p placement don't make it easy on yourself move it further away, and slow ur playing down, then as your technique improves and your speed starts to pick up with tge correct technique, THEN slowly adjust the tom to whatever desired placement was, and you might find that you like the Tom and snare and everything else in a different place after all..... But like I said it has a little bit to do with your left hand and whether you play match grip or traditional because if you play traditional your snares also going to be facing slightly away from you as compared to slightly more parallel or even tilted towards you..which will affect the placement of the tom too..great video though,& I would also add if you've seen any of the more eclectic drummers like John Mayer's drummer I forgot his name and Manu Katche, famous drummer for Peter Gabriel youd start to realize that different is not only okay, it's highly p recommended to think differently .
And this is what sets drummers who are musicians apart from just drummers and that is think song and composition and arrangement first then think about how you want to take what's in your head and translate that to the drum set and you might find that you like your drum set in all kinds of weird ways, like I've seen rack toms with the 14 or 13 inch Tom placed opposite of the hi tom, and Dave weckl has a floor tom to his left of his snare as well as one on his right and there are many drummers who have a second snare to the left of their hat, I would suggest being musical first and thinking about your ultimate or ideal sounds and how you could translate your dream or vision drum sound to a kit and then arrange the kit in that fashion rather than arbitrarily force the placement of your drums(probably due to faulty practicing protocol) and then the sound has to be forced, contrived of suppressed erroneous set up, thus limiting for what you can do in any given composition or jam session
How Much Tone should a Tom have. Also, should the Tom be Tuned to a specific note?
Sitting position or using standard/traditional sized toms are two ways to have toms in a better position.
Where is the PDF guide? Can't find it? TY
When I was in the seventh grade. My Kick drum was real big Led Zeppelin was big. Plexy glass and you ought to try having a 24 inch. Based drum, 4:35 talked about place in your Tom's. LOL when you're when you're the tiny little kid, you know.
Im right handed. But i play open handed on my high hats. And i put ny ride behind my snare. This way i have my right hand accessable to use on the tons shen im keeping oace on the high hat or ride.
Tama hyperdrive toms for the win! They can be snuck in anywhere
I don't know why the tom mount on your BD is so far toward the front, but imho, the best place for a tom or toms is on the BD. The tom on a snare stand is never ergonomic in my experience.
Sitting height for balance & rellaxed l
I push my bass drum to the left, out of the way and fly my floor tom. I use the slave pedal of a lefty double as my main pedal and clip a legless hihat to the bass drum hoop. I fly my floor tom off a rack. That way the bass drum isn't in the way of either tom and there's no gap between your 12 and 16 inch toms.
Honestly, that sounds a tiny bit convaluted, but also very intriguing and plausible and I have no doubt it works great for you :D
I have BIG toms and cymbals as far apart as I can get them and I sit very low with a 26" kick ( Bonham size) ..and I can play very fast. any BabyMetal or Dragonlore song....
With that nice space between the rack and floor tom why not get the ride cymbal in there, why have it so high and far away?
That's how my setup is. But actually I wanna start playing with a second rack tom, so I'm not sure how I feel about ride placement in that setup. I really like it where it is and don't have much room for it to move up and/or right..
Hey nice to know you are a worship drummer Stephan ☝️👊
More rack toms :D
I got here because of UA-cam feed recommendations… but eh… no. I can play fine in anyone’s kit regardless of their setup, height etc without the need to readjust anything. No problems with hitting sticks or fluidity issues. Sometimes I find their kit better than mine even though I have a high end drum set.
I'm no expert, but it seems like putting a hole in the bass to accept a rack tom mount was more of a convenience decision back in the day, then actually logical. Aside from putting stress on the shell (I have ~50 yo Vistalites and i am ALWAYS worried about cracks), it just puts the rack toms too far back, imo. I have my 2 rack toms hanging off my crash 1 stand.
This is good stuff. Have any advice for two floor Tom setup? I have 14 and 16
Try them both at snare drum height. As for placement, with sticks in hands and arms in relaxed position like you just played a flam on your snare drum, try turning your body in the direction of where the floor toms will be. Place the center of each tom under the tip of your sticks, 14 first. Then rotate more and place the 16. Try to limit reaching or pulling back for the sticks to hit the center of the toms. Just my 2 cents.
I wanted to watch this but it’s a million years long
My hands and coordination are preventing fast fills from happening. =/ I am trying though but I find I tense up when I start to go fast. So I have been playing them as fast as I can without tensing but I feel like I am plateauing.
It sucks and is boring and you probably heard it many times before, but - go slow and steady. I KNOW, you wanna go fast, but your muscles really need to learn, what your musical brain wants from them. First control, then speed, because with control, the speed will come automatically, you almost can't help but get faster.
On recent game changer in stick control for me was thinking in terms of stick paths and accents. I don't know where I got the idea, maybe it was actually Stephen, i think Jay from drummersalmanac did stuff about it.
Practice these 4 patterns: accent/no accent (a/na); no accent/no accent (na/na) ; na/a ; a/a. Stick is up high before every accent, and hovering low above the snare head for no accent. Doesn't matter if single or double stroke, or which technique or grip you're using, it works with everything.
When you apply this to rudiments for example, you'll soon feel drastic changes, not only in speed & timing, but most of all in your control over the velocity. Like, if you're into ghost notes - this is the sht, still can't believe how I progressed there recently.
6:42 - great video & all but surely you've got the kick drum back to front?! That Tom Mount should be a lot closer to your right foot…🤔
Do you not see the kick drum spurs?
thats what I thought too, but the spurs give it away. The problem is deeper kicks. They often put the rack hole the same distance from the front, so the deeper the drum, the further away the toms.
@@Dstinct I guess so, yet it doesn't have to be that way as it don't only takes a couple of holes the size of a fingernail to switch the feet around compared to drilling a great big gaping hole at the very top to reposition the Tom mount🫣
Even the badge is facing towards him where he has the kick pedal!
Anyway plenty of good info in this video👍
So what's the setup mistake)?
You just gave me another reason not to like the new DWe Kit. Being real shells, you are back to dealing with tom placements. Of course my main reason is the over 10K cost. Thank you for all your content. In His name.
20” kick drum are easier to tune… however dynamically once you start putting microphones on the drums, you can pretty much do anything
That Home Depot intro song you have just KILLS me. I beg of you, please change that.
I have to have my snare at least waist height with no angle. If I don't, doing rim shots my hands always hit my legs.
Seat height is overlooked in eDrum kits. For some reason, eKits are WAY too low 99.99% of the time. I set my height based on knee/hip bend angle and had to almost top out my drum stool (I'm 6'). Now I when I go to any music store, I'm horrified at how low all the eKits are. Many eKit players in drumming FB groups are playing kits very low.
but i thought we are supposed to keep our knees at about a 45 degree angle?
I'm 6'5", I sit at anyone else's kit and it's trashcan down empty stairwells. 😊
I have that *same* K-ride!
ergonomics before aesthetics - form follows function
I was told to fond your ideal rack Tom placement is to sit and hold your stix directly out in front of you, straight line from your shoulders to the tip of the stix. Now that is your Tom placement. Do you agree with that?
if you've got a deep tom, vintage kit (circa late 80s - early 90s), just be prepared to sit high. otherwise, be prepared to play the rack toms at a stupid "like playing against a wall" angle 😆
Realized my biggest issue was literally just throne placement 🤦🏻♂️