I feel his biggest weakness was target prioritization. Constantly killing extractors, evos, hatcheries, while two dozen drones are sitting right there completely exposed. Killing those drones would have completely prevented the hydra snowball he died to.
Or he could've built like 3 disruptors or stopped morphing his HTs and probably won anyways, roach hydra is a really crap build as soon as those AoEs are out on the field but he relied on Colossi which wasted their shots on the roaches.
@@quickdraw6893 %100 on the disruptors, even half decent shots would have won several of those fights, assuming he didn't just wipe out his own zealots. I completely forgot the colossi kept shooting the roaches, you're right there as well.
Totally agree and was going to the comment section to say this exact thing. If he targeted all the free drones when he had the chances he would have destroyed the opponents economy. So many pro games are decided by a handful of drone kills and he had dozens of drones he could have exterminated.
The idea of trading army for economy keeps his army small all the time, while his opponent's army grows over time, so by the time they fight an actual fight his opponent has a big army, something he lacks because he was trading his army for economy. And all the economy damage was along him not really probing up, so what is the point of dealing economy damage he doesn't build his economy. Stopping entirely probe production makes sense if we do an all-in, but if we go for economic damage then stopping probe production for a few minutes doesn't make sense at all. Capitilizing on economy damage is always hard for lower level players, as they don't really switch to a mode when its the time of making a good fighting army rather then a mobile army (or by the time they do they die), and neither taking the whole map as they assume they are already ahead due to the economic damage they are doing. But in the end its about either killing the opponent army or killing the opponent structures. Killing the opponent army is impossible if we trade ours for the opponent economy rather then chipping at his army, and the longer it goes the trades go worser.
The first part is absolutely correct but the second i don't agree entirely. A player can waste a bunch of units to kill only a few units and deal alot of damadge to the economy. So i would say trading economy vs my own army is worth it as long as i can rebuild my own army in time to defend his counter attack. Because once i've weaken him enough with this kind of strat (the opponent that is) i can attack into his army with mine and assuming we both lose a big chunk of our army he cannot rebuild due his lag of economy while i can and thus win in the end. Obviously this doesn't apply for lategame armys due to the production time. The main problem was that he wasted his zealots 24/7 for alomst no damadge... After doing that over and over he lost his army size thus losing the main fight despite the fact that it could have been better. Also notice he fought multiple times when he should have ran away It was not that he really traded army for much economy damadge. It was more like a suicide squad on its way to death.
His problem is just that he wasnt really trading economy for army because he was targeting extractors, hatcheries, evo Chambers and spine crawlers instead of drones.
To me, this was like having a masters player to play for you, but a gold player to make all the build/strategy decisions. Really clean execution of really sub-par plans.
hehe... I thought the opposite.. the plans were not bad, but the execution was poor... the execution on the build, on the run by's, on the fights... the macro was good (for half of the game - then it was gone), the micro was good while bringing the units in position (but then a total fail during the actual attacks/fights)...
It feels like the pacing of his plan was very odd. Going with a big attack with double upgrades and double prism is just obviously trying to do way too much too early... and taxing his control as well. I liked most of the harassment after that more, but even then he was trading lots of minerals for minerals. I'm sure that's good, but it felt like he needed - as Harstem did point out - too many Zealots to accomplish the hatchery kills. The Zerg rarely took much army damage, while Proletariat was constantly losing most of it while not - again, as pointed out by Harstem - having the economy to support it. It felt like doing as much harassment as possible was the whole plan and there never was any real follow-up. Perhaps all that would have been needed would have been to go a bit easier on the Zealots and focus on the main army earlier.
18:55 I think I understand what happened here. Proletariat is used to a-clicking when target-firing rather than right-clicking because in a big battle, one misclick onto the ground (while right-clicking) would result in your army move-commanding for 1-2 seconds and costing you the fight. In this case, though, right-clicking is fine because worse case scenario, you just move to a spot then continue killing drones. Instead, because he a-moved, he killed a couple drones and then, because he misclicked onto the ground, the dt received the command to attack anything and everything before moving to the spot he was directed to a-move to.
Wow. Proletariat should be proud of himself. This is the first time I see Harstem give such a high praise in lower tier. It's like he just needs a little information ( like in this video ) to get much much better @_@.
Shift clicking at 18:55 had me in tears. I've never seen negative micro like that, ever. I think this Protoss player learned to run before he could walk. He forgot the basic principle that more stuff beats less stuff. His resource expenditure was good because his macro was so bad. If he ever got a worker lead and built up a death ball he would have won easily. I think some basic coaching could take this player into Diamond 1 in no time.
My analysis/description of the mistakes of Proletariat would be, that he consequently chooses the wrong target on a micro level. Examples: Sending the zealots in the prism with the right timing towards the right spot/base, but then steering them very actively (micro) towards the wrong objects: base instead of drones, even extractor instead of base. Second example: sending archons a tad too late after the zealots, such that the archons dont tank what they could do. Thirs example: the DTs that could have taken down a whole min line on auto attack, but were effectively rendered useless by applying a lot of micro. There are more examples, but this is it. Very frustrating, he should have won easily. To put it in a Harstem like manner: it seems he has read the game manual, but someone tore out 15% of the pages, so that he doesn't understand a few crucial aspects.
Slight correction on the DT: The micro that was attempted was correct (shift-clicking the drones) HOWEVER the important part is to prevent the DT from entering neutral posture (the "no orders, standing still" state) because it will detect nearby enemies and enter generic attack mode. If it does that, then when you shift-click those orders will not be attempted until the completion of the "attack everything you can see" order, ruining the point. Therefore, the FIRST click needs to NOT be a shift-click, and the shift-click after has to come BEFORE the DT gets the kill and resets to neutral posture. I think what happened here is that Proleteriat hit A and set the cursor to attack-command mode was was shift-left clicking, and then missed one click and targeted the ground, which ALSO sets the DT into attack-move behavior which uses the AI priority system, which targets combat units which can attack it first (e.g. a void ray will ignore a roach for a hydra since the roach can't shoot up) and noncombat units (like drones) last (and within each combat/noncombat category, units before structures), and therefore the default DT targeting went uselessly after the spines because they are combat structures unlike noncombat workers. What Proleteriat SHOULD have done is kept the mouse in the default mode and shift-RIGHT clicked, because the default right-click action on an enemy unit is to attack it, but a missed click on the ground becomes a move order which will only delay the DT slightly but not send it off on a wild goose chase of AI attack priority. The issue is not that Proletariat was applying TOO MUCH micro, it is that the understanding of HOW (or in some cases like right-clicking bases with zealot runbys, why) to apply micro was only 90% there, and that last 10% caused massive problems which undermined the effectiveness of all the good micro.
100% the problem here was targeting. Going after hatcheries looks good "on paper" but he was actually behind in income even after taking out hatcheries, because he wasn't expanding - he had to spend money on rebuilding his army that he just inefficiently threw away into the hatcheries. Going after extractors, going after the evo chamber, spines, even the DT attack, although that one was accidental incorrect targeting, it was still the issue there.
I would put a very big asterisk on his "good macro" being that he had an extremely low probe count and that is most likely what cost him the game. Hatsune lost a lot of drones but remade them afterwards, while proletariat stayed on a low probe count, lost some and still didn't make more. With a better economy he most likely wins this game
Not quite. Gorillaz are an actual band that identify themselves as animation, where as Hatsune Miku is a synthetic voice given identity by artists. That's how I see vocaloids anyway.
you know, this game reminds me a lot of how my kid plays. my kid is 15. he has 120 apm, great instincts, which allow him to react quickly in a game. also great mechanics: he has all the masteries for the WoL challenges and the SC master arcade thingy. But he's silver-plat, 'cause his understanding of the game is... skewed. the other day we were playing a team game, and by playing I mean I was tagging along with my 30 apm in the half hour I get per day to do something with him, building something badly resembling the CIA protoss build. my kid, terran, can outmacro and outmicro me, but somehow I always end up asking him to lower his supply depo so I can make my third base, which in turn reminds and resets him back to the "make workers and depots" mantra that I tell him to follow. after this particular game, against two protoss, I tell him "you know you can make ghosts, right?", to which he responds "I don't think nukes were the right call in this game". like I said, skewed understanding. it's interesting because my kid's build absolutely and utterly sucks, but he has such good mechanics and instincts that he makes it work. if only he took some time to learn the theory, or maybe a build or two, he'd probably be diamond 2 or smth. I've showed him a couple build orders, he really doesn't want to practice them. so yeah, I think our submitter needs a class in fundamentals (or a link to that spawningtool site) and they'll definitely improve
Way to start the year with an IIIODIS where Harstem is not clearly saying : YOU SUCK and gets confused. Loved it ;D Honnestly proletariat, good macro. Gota improve the micro a bit and you re good for diamond or master my friend.
How about what he should work on: - Better build orders - better micro (dont miss "half" the fight with the zealots) - target drones rather than the buildings unless its worth to target down the hatch first (which again is almost impossible to decide correct in the moment for lower level players)
I think, his macro also wasn't perfect. It was good for Plat 1, but he should increase his worker count mid game. Maybe it is not, because he can't, but more so, that he doesn't think it is worth it.
I like to call microing one thing and then the next consecutive tasking, because it is harder than just monotasking as you need to set it up beforehand and split up your army, but much easier than actually multitasking.
Actually...ringing the doorbell before a burglary is quite common and smart. Most burglars don't want anyone home, so will often ring a doorbell or knock. Back in the day a landline call. If someone's home the jobs off.
As someone going to Miku Expo this year, seeing Hatsune Miku live is an incredible experience. Artists put so much of themselves into programming her vocals and creating the instrumentals. Hearing the live instruments and seeing the choreography on top of being around thousands of people who share your passion is what makes seeing "a robot" live so fun.
You just described a concert. Like. Thats what a concert is. The robot is superfluous. Edit: I just took the time to check it out. Its not a concert, its alvin and the chipmunks in japanese. If thats an incredible experience, you need to reevaluate all of your life decisions and possibly devote yourself to a time machine so you can start over from scratch.
I'm still not convinced. Is the music actually any different from just listening to it online? I love some good electronic music live. Carpenter Brut's live performances are fantastic, and the songs are remixed on-set in exciting ways from their original records (he's uploaded a lot of the edits since, worth checking them out). But a vocaloid? Or vtuber concerts? It's... yeah, it's watching a UA-cam video offline. Of anime characters on a big screen moving to some song laid over top it. It's so far removed from the human element that you might as well have not left your house.
@@quickdraw6893 look up some live videos of miku expo for the last few years. I recommend the Utsu-P song Hyper Reality Show and imagine you're sitting in that audience. Cheers!
This guy actually played some top tier SC2. Hope he gets some coaching from a high level player or a pro cause he has the potential and the game sense to shine. Really enjoyed this episode!
Nah the only thing impressive he did was build the proper amount of gateways and hit all his warp ins He played the easiest unit comp in the game to control and somehow still had negitive micro
As a terran player myself, I can understand his point of view. Outplaying your opponent the entire game and then losing to an a move has happened to me a lot. But at one point you must realize that throwing away your units to keep your opponent busy will lose to a push if you don't have the economy or unit comp to hold on. If only he had researched storm at one point, or made like 2 disruptors he could have maybe held on even with 40 less army supply. Some more batteries at his bases could have helped. A 70+ worker economy would have been great as well. Nice gameplay for a plat for sure, just a few minor adjustments and he'll climb very soon.
Harstem can be quite brutal if he heard of some hobby you have. Thankfully all of my hobbies are so incredibly local and fetishist that he'll never be able to
I don't understand how a player develops with these strengths and weaknesses. For instance he seems to be really good at judging when he should or shouldn't take fights, but then his micro and target priority are so bad that he loses a fight that should be good to take. Normally players learn good vs. bad fights by taking a lot of them and having the result reinforce their behavior. But somehow this guy is getting the bad result from "good" fights and he's still accurately identifying good vs. bad fights? Wild.
Harstem criticized Pro's multipronged zealot attack not hitting at the same time, but at his level I think drawing the F2 army into the main first and then hitting the lower bases is a good call. At higher levels players will be able to withstand both, but this will ravage Plat. He probably would be better if he paid a little less attention to timings and just kept macroing. Cutting workers for a timing is good, but he could've had 3 fully saturated bases by the time his attack hit. He seems to spend his money on army and upgrades well, so having some more money would do him good.
Hatsune was a pretty impressive voice synthesizer/instrument. I don't think anybody ever said it was AI. Basically the same thing as a synthesizer you would use to make techno or dubstep but designed to mimic vocals.
Toss threw away too many units with economy that could not support that. He killed bases and drones but zerg army was mostly intact. Losing prodution and economy as zerg is bad but not as bad when your army is not dying. So basically toss played like a zerg but without the "bigger economy" part (resources lost in the end tell the story).
The roach tanking was huge. Colossi don't do well against it. Could've just gone into disruptors or storms though and it would have been a lot less of an issue.
To me it looks like the problem was he consistently traded his army to kill eco, but never attacked the zerg army. His army kept getting smaller while the zerg kept slowly building up. He was playing better but never actually traded until the zerg has double his army supply and the eco damage didn't keep up
15:30 here comes a problem! Traded most of Protoss army for hatcheries. Now Zerg army much bigger. (Kinda stating the obvious, but doesn't seem obvious to Proletariat.)
The concept behind Hatsune Miku is the same concept behind the Gorillaz and Dethklok. That is, an animated set of characters are the persona of the actual musicians and, I for one, find it very entertaining.
The bit about Hatsune Miku is completly wrong. Let me correct this: there's a software called Vocaloid for synthesising singing voice. Basicily it makes your computer sing with human/robotic voice. Hatsune Miku is one of the available voices for it, so no one is impersonating her, they literally use her voice. (Or rather the voice of Saki Fujita who provided the voice as Hatsune Miku is just a character, not an actual human being.) Also fun fact: Despite the name meaning "the first sound of the future" and having codename CV01 (Character Voice 01) Miku wasn't the first voice for the software. But she was the first one being sold as anime girl, so yeah.
About the live performances: true, the voice will be the same, but the band plays the music live. Also different producers tune voices differently so Hatsune Miku sounds different when used by for example Pinocchio-P, wowaka or Mitche M.
I kind of feel the same with the Hatsune Miku concerts, but then I remember back in the old days, everyone thought that video games as a sport was a silly concept and no one would watch a bunch of nerds sitting in front of T.Vs. Times really do change.
What I think went wrong was that the Proletariat traded 5-8 zealots (~700 minerals) for every hatchery (300 minerals) and then no attacks happened for a minute. The zerg simply rebuilt bases, and the number of workers always remained the same; in fact, the strength of the zerg economy fell only for a while. What could be done (you can choose any): 1) First raise the number of workers to ~80, and then send zealots 2) build 5-7 disruptors 3) Send dark templars to every base, not just one, and control them a little better 4) It seems to me that if in the last battle protoss had time to put the zealots in front, he would have traded to a draw 5) Research Psi-storm. Leave 5-6 High Templars in the army 6) Play zealot-allin properly: by the 5 minute you already should have Charge, a Prism and 7-8 gateways and be already near the opponent's 3rd base
I feel like Harstem needs a few more stamps for his form. "You could just have easily have won this game, ideally this game would be a draw" = Declined reason: too close to call. Or specifically for our Toss here who bad targeting: "Declined Reason: Submitter Threw" "Declined Reason: Fix your weaknesses."
That dt in the drone line with no spore huuuuurt my soul This guy could be top diamond or even masters by not wasting apm on zealots to attack buildings and learning a build
Yeah it sort of feels like a diamond+ player trolling… like you said it’s like he knows what’s right and wrong and doing both intentionally. Like a chess player sacking his pieces to keep the game going awhile longer.
I think the problem was that Proletariat is technically good at everything, but never at the same time, if that makes sense. When he does zealot runbies at the right time, he clicks the hatcheries. When he's microing the zealots, his multi-prong attack becomes a sequential one instead. When he's actually multipronging and doing a lot of damage, he follows it up by losing his whole army to roach-hydra. His macro was good, but that got equalized by the bad build and being on low probes intentionally for a long time. Something was always going wrong, it just wasn't consistently the same thing like it is with most other players. Also, shouldn't he have just made some HTs? Or rather, just gotten the upgrade and not merged them all into archons?
Haven't watched the game yet but I hear a Protoss complaining about Hydras and my first question is "why don't you just make Disruptors? You already have the robo for the Warp Prisms"
As a pleb, it looked like the opening build just cuts too much to try to deal as much damage as possible with the zealot drops, essentially ruining his own economy to ruin theirs. After the attack, the eco is about the same for both, but the other guy has an army still. From there he just never caught up in army between engagements.
Its like a construction contractor is trying to build a shed. He brings all the right tools for the job. Has the right plans for the job. But instead of putting his nails in to boards he instead hammers them in a near by tree.
He started throwing away units, he had the advantage but at some point he should’ve stopped but he didn’t until it was too late. The Zerg player got to keep his army, or at least enough if it that the toss couldn’t really ever catch up in armysupply before being attacked. The only solution I know to that is keep the pressure on but with way less commitment, forcing the Zerg to stay home while buying time to build army
If you want to be successful you can either do things right, or do the right things. Some of these iodis submitters straight up does the wrong things wrong, while a select few actually do the wrong things right.
This was the first one that I watched where I thought, this guy just needs some minor adjustments and in time could actually go very high in the ranks. If he learned better target prio I think he could, after watching this game and thinking all games are similar to this, go an entire league higher just off that. Other things obviously to work on but overall I actually enjoyed this game.
It is funny that Harstem comments "no sentry here" for a plat player. I have never seen sentries used in this way at this level. Harstem should know better.
Don’t underestimate Miku, Harstem. Yoasobi, Kenshi Yonezu and many other composers all started with Vocaloid. Look at where they are now: Billboard top 100, a-list etc, all started with Miku. ;)
I think maybe he didn't understand the difference between a roach and a hydralisk. I think of the 151 zealots that died, very nearly all of them died to roaches or spine crawlers. Yeah, there were a bunch of hydras at the end but they mostly just got cooked by colossussues.
Proletariat was obsessed with right clicking the hatcheries because he wanted to seize the means of production.
HAHAHA I love it
Lmao
Best comment 12/10
And he didn't kill workers because he only wanted to fight capital.
Also went he went for the extractors
I feel his biggest weakness was target prioritization. Constantly killing extractors, evos, hatcheries, while two dozen drones are sitting right there completely exposed. Killing those drones would have completely prevented the hydra snowball he died to.
Or he could've built like 3 disruptors or stopped morphing his HTs and probably won anyways, roach hydra is a really crap build as soon as those AoEs are out on the field but he relied on Colossi which wasted their shots on the roaches.
@@quickdraw6893 %100 on the disruptors, even half decent shots would have won several of those fights, assuming he didn't just wipe out his own zealots. I completely forgot the colossi kept shooting the roaches, you're right there as well.
Wonderful video! Thanks for sharing your content Harsty!❤
Totally agree and was going to the comment section to say this exact thing. If he targeted all the free drones when he had the chances he would have destroyed the opponents economy. So many pro games are decided by a handful of drone kills and he had dozens of drones he could have exterminated.
The idea of trading army for economy keeps his army small all the time, while his opponent's army grows over time, so by the time they fight an actual fight his opponent has a big army, something he lacks because he was trading his army for economy. And all the economy damage was along him not really probing up, so what is the point of dealing economy damage he doesn't build his economy. Stopping entirely probe production makes sense if we do an all-in, but if we go for economic damage then stopping probe production for a few minutes doesn't make sense at all.
Capitilizing on economy damage is always hard for lower level players, as they don't really switch to a mode when its the time of making a good fighting army rather then a mobile army (or by the time they do they die), and neither taking the whole map as they assume they are already ahead due to the economic damage they are doing. But in the end its about either killing the opponent army or killing the opponent structures. Killing the opponent army is impossible if we trade ours for the opponent economy rather then chipping at his army, and the longer it goes the trades go worser.
The first part is absolutely correct but the second i don't agree entirely.
A player can waste a bunch of units to kill only a few units and deal alot of damadge to the economy.
So i would say trading economy vs my own army is worth it as long as i can rebuild my own army in time to defend his counter attack.
Because once i've weaken him enough with this kind of strat (the opponent that is) i can attack into his army with mine and assuming we both lose a big chunk of our army he cannot rebuild due his lag of economy while i can and thus win in the end. Obviously this doesn't apply for lategame armys due to the production time.
The main problem was that he wasted his zealots 24/7 for alomst no damadge... After doing that over and over he lost his army size thus losing the main fight despite the fact that it could have been better. Also notice he fought multiple times when he should have ran away
It was not that he really traded army for much economy damadge. It was more like a suicide squad on its way to death.
Tl;dr eco dmg needs to become eco advantage by macro'ing at home, that didn't happen.
As a zerg player it's pretty easy to take advantage of eco damage because we just build 10 drones at one time after the damage 😂
He shoulda gotten storm, he had the prisms and constant drone transfer trains in front of him
His problem is just that he wasnt really trading economy for army because he was targeting extractors, hatcheries, evo Chambers and spine crawlers instead of drones.
13:50 Stutter stepping 2 stalkers and 1 immortal along with his 20 zealots was peak level negative micro lol
To me, this was like having a masters player to play for you, but a gold player to make all the build/strategy decisions. Really clean execution of really sub-par plans.
hehe... I thought the opposite.. the plans were not bad, but the execution was poor... the execution on the build, on the run by's, on the fights... the macro was good (for half of the game - then it was gone), the micro was good while bringing the units in position (but then a total fail during the actual attacks/fights)...
It's like he was training for three years to become a boxer, gets fit learns all the proper form. Then just keeps hitting the guy in the leg.
@@TheStargov you have a bright future, my lad
It's a straight up non-build tho.@@79johnJ
It feels like the pacing of his plan was very odd. Going with a big attack with double upgrades and double prism is just obviously trying to do way too much too early... and taxing his control as well. I liked most of the harassment after that more, but even then he was trading lots of minerals for minerals. I'm sure that's good, but it felt like he needed - as Harstem did point out - too many Zealots to accomplish the hatchery kills. The Zerg rarely took much army damage, while Proletariat was constantly losing most of it while not - again, as pointed out by Harstem - having the economy to support it. It felt like doing as much harassment as possible was the whole plan and there never was any real follow-up. Perhaps all that would have been needed would have been to go a bit easier on the Zealots and focus on the main army earlier.
18:55 I think I understand what happened here. Proletariat is used to a-clicking when target-firing rather than right-clicking because in a big battle, one misclick onto the ground (while right-clicking) would result in your army move-commanding for 1-2 seconds and costing you the fight. In this case, though, right-clicking is fine because worse case scenario, you just move to a spot then continue killing drones. Instead, because he a-moved, he killed a couple drones and then, because he misclicked onto the ground, the dt received the command to attack anything and everything before moving to the spot he was directed to a-move to.
Except he repeatedly did the same kind of thing, right clicking on hatcheries
Wow. Proletariat should be proud of himself. This is the first time I see Harstem give such a high praise in lower tier. It's like he just needs a little information ( like in this video ) to get much much better @_@.
It's like... he sees the potential of this guy's talent but is baffled at how inconsistent his play is
Yeah. I wonder if Proletariat is a newer player and just needs some experience.
Shift clicking at 18:55 had me in tears. I've never seen negative micro like that, ever. I think this Protoss player learned to run before he could walk. He forgot the basic principle that more stuff beats less stuff. His resource expenditure was good because his macro was so bad. If he ever got a worker lead and built up a death ball he would have won easily. I think some basic coaching could take this player into Diamond 1 in no time.
He makes worst possible move after doing the best possible move. What a god.
My analysis/description of the mistakes of Proletariat would be, that he consequently chooses the wrong target on a micro level. Examples: Sending the zealots in the prism with the right timing towards the right spot/base, but then steering them very actively (micro) towards the wrong objects: base instead of drones, even extractor instead of base. Second example: sending archons a tad too late after the zealots, such that the archons dont tank what they could do. Thirs example: the DTs that could have taken down a whole min line on auto attack, but were effectively rendered useless by applying a lot of micro. There are more examples, but this is it. Very frustrating, he should have won easily. To put it in a Harstem like manner: it seems he has read the game manual, but someone tore out 15% of the pages, so that he doesn't understand a few crucial aspects.
Slight correction on the DT: The micro that was attempted was correct (shift-clicking the drones) HOWEVER the important part is to prevent the DT from entering neutral posture (the "no orders, standing still" state) because it will detect nearby enemies and enter generic attack mode. If it does that, then when you shift-click those orders will not be attempted until the completion of the "attack everything you can see" order, ruining the point. Therefore, the FIRST click needs to NOT be a shift-click, and the shift-click after has to come BEFORE the DT gets the kill and resets to neutral posture.
I think what happened here is that Proleteriat hit A and set the cursor to attack-command mode was was shift-left clicking, and then missed one click and targeted the ground, which ALSO sets the DT into attack-move behavior which uses the AI priority system, which targets combat units which can attack it first (e.g. a void ray will ignore a roach for a hydra since the roach can't shoot up) and noncombat units (like drones) last (and within each combat/noncombat category, units before structures), and therefore the default DT targeting went uselessly after the spines because they are combat structures unlike noncombat workers.
What Proleteriat SHOULD have done is kept the mouse in the default mode and shift-RIGHT clicked, because the default right-click action on an enemy unit is to attack it, but a missed click on the ground becomes a move order which will only delay the DT slightly but not send it off on a wild goose chase of AI attack priority.
The issue is not that Proletariat was applying TOO MUCH micro, it is that the understanding of HOW (or in some cases like right-clicking bases with zealot runbys, why) to apply micro was only 90% there, and that last 10% caused massive problems which undermined the effectiveness of all the good micro.
100% the problem here was targeting. Going after hatcheries looks good "on paper" but he was actually behind in income even after taking out hatcheries, because he wasn't expanding - he had to spend money on rebuilding his army that he just inefficiently threw away into the hatcheries. Going after extractors, going after the evo chamber, spines, even the DT attack, although that one was accidental incorrect targeting, it was still the issue there.
@@allmhuran sacrificing 1100 minerals in Zealots to destroy a 300 mineral hatchery isn't good on paper either.
God I love this series. Last week’s episode with goOdy really made me hyped up for this one.
I would put a very big asterisk on his "good macro" being that he had an extremely low probe count and that is most likely what cost him the game. Hatsune lost a lot of drones but remade them afterwards, while proletariat stayed on a low probe count, lost some and still didn't make more. With a better economy he most likely wins this game
You could see the gears almost break at times; Harstem knows there's dumb stuff going on, but he's impressed at how well it's being performed.
What it look like to play a game perfectly imperfect. The reason Harstem could not provide advise is because you cannot improve upon perfection.
Hatsune miku is just Japanese Gorillaz
Not quite. Gorillaz are an actual band that identify themselves as animation, where as Hatsune Miku is a synthetic voice given identity by artists.
That's how I see vocaloids anyway.
you know, this game reminds me a lot of how my kid plays.
my kid is 15. he has 120 apm, great instincts, which allow him to react quickly in a game. also great mechanics: he has all the masteries for the WoL challenges and the SC master arcade thingy. But he's silver-plat, 'cause his understanding of the game is... skewed.
the other day we were playing a team game, and by playing I mean I was tagging along with my 30 apm in the half hour I get per day to do something with him, building something badly resembling the CIA protoss build.
my kid, terran, can outmacro and outmicro me, but somehow I always end up asking him to lower his supply depo so I can make my third base, which in turn reminds and resets him back to the "make workers and depots" mantra that I tell him to follow.
after this particular game, against two protoss, I tell him "you know you can make ghosts, right?", to which he responds "I don't think nukes were the right call in this game". like I said, skewed understanding.
it's interesting because my kid's build absolutely and utterly sucks, but he has such good mechanics and instincts that he makes it work. if only he took some time to learn the theory, or maybe a build or two, he'd probably be diamond 2 or smth. I've showed him a couple build orders, he really doesn't want to practice them.
so yeah, I think our submitter needs a class in fundamentals (or a link to that spawningtool site) and they'll definitely improve
Way to start the year with an IIIODIS where Harstem is not clearly saying : YOU SUCK and gets confused. Loved it ;D
Honnestly proletariat, good macro. Gota improve the micro a bit and you re good for diamond or master my friend.
2:20 "absolutely surreal being fan of a robot" -protoss player
If you want a laugh, there is a guitar effects pedal called the Miku Stomp that makes your guitar sound like an anime girl.
This is what I like to see. The proletariat has finally seized the means of production
How about what he should work on:
- Better build orders
- better micro (dont miss "half" the fight with the zealots)
- target drones rather than the buildings unless its worth to target down the hatch first (which again is almost impossible to decide correct in the moment for lower level players)
If he would just a move and clean up the first 2 min of build order, he'll be diamond
I think, his macro also wasn't perfect. It was good for Plat 1, but he should increase his worker count mid game. Maybe it is not, because he can't, but more so, that he doesn't think it is worth it.
20:10, that was an AMAZING apple-eating sound effect!
I like to call microing one thing and then the next consecutive tasking, because it is harder than just monotasking as you need to set it up beforehand and split up your army, but much easier than actually multitasking.
Man, I love his analogies, the main reason I watch
Actually...ringing the doorbell before a burglary is quite common and smart.
Most burglars don't want anyone home, so will often ring a doorbell or knock. Back in the day a landline call.
If someone's home the jobs off.
As someone going to Miku Expo this year, seeing Hatsune Miku live is an incredible experience. Artists put so much of themselves into programming her vocals and creating the instrumentals. Hearing the live instruments and seeing the choreography on top of being around thousands of people who share your passion is what makes seeing "a robot" live so fun.
You just described a concert. Like. Thats what a concert is.
The robot is superfluous.
Edit: I just took the time to check it out. Its not a concert, its alvin and the chipmunks in japanese. If thats an incredible experience, you need to reevaluate all of your life decisions and possibly devote yourself to a time machine so you can start over from scratch.
Dude actually paid money to watch a UA-cam video offline
I'm still not convinced. Is the music actually any different from just listening to it online?
I love some good electronic music live. Carpenter Brut's live performances are fantastic, and the songs are remixed on-set in exciting ways from their original records (he's uploaded a lot of the edits since, worth checking them out). But a vocaloid? Or vtuber concerts? It's... yeah, it's watching a UA-cam video offline. Of anime characters on a big screen moving to some song laid over top it. It's so far removed from the human element that you might as well have not left your house.
@@quickdraw6893 look up some live videos of miku expo for the last few years. I recommend the Utsu-P song Hyper Reality Show and imagine you're sitting in that audience. Cheers!
@@quickdraw6893 ua-cam.com/video/PlQIdq5mv_k/v-deo.html
This guy actually played some top tier SC2. Hope he gets some coaching from a high level player or a pro cause he has the potential and the game sense to shine. Really enjoyed this episode!
Top tier? Gtfo
@@luisg8873top tier for plat, this guy is gonna be high diamond or even masters in no time
@@luisg8873get it together kiddo.
Nah the only thing impressive he did was build the proper amount of gateways and hit all his warp ins
He played the easiest unit comp in the game to control and somehow still had negitive micro
@@Name-ru1ktI never saw him building any zerg units?
As a terran player myself, I can understand his point of view. Outplaying your opponent the entire game and then losing to an a move has happened to me a lot. But at one point you must realize that throwing away your units to keep your opponent busy will lose to a push if you don't have the economy or unit comp to hold on. If only he had researched storm at one point, or made like 2 disruptors he could have maybe held on even with 40 less army supply. Some more batteries at his bases could have helped. A 70+ worker economy would have been great as well. Nice gameplay for a plat for sure, just a few minor adjustments and he'll climb very soon.
The form still says 2023 on top of it, might want to update it lol
i wont stand for this Hatsune Miku slander
Are you a sex doll which can't stand?
Harstem can be quite brutal if he heard of some hobby you have. Thankfully all of my hobbies are so incredibly local and fetishist that he'll never be able to
WeebsOut
Hey if it sounds good it sounds good
@@sakesaurushearing him trash some board games that I love a few episodes ago and now this 😭
Happy new year to Hamster, Harstem and their team if I'm missing anyone!!
I don't understand how a player develops with these strengths and weaknesses. For instance he seems to be really good at judging when he should or shouldn't take fights, but then his micro and target priority are so bad that he loses a fight that should be good to take. Normally players learn good vs. bad fights by taking a lot of them and having the result reinforce their behavior. But somehow this guy is getting the bad result from "good" fights and he's still accurately identifying good vs. bad fights? Wild.
its almost like this was a duo game, GM playing macro , silver playing micro.
Builds robfac right under overlord, pure chad move.
Harstem criticized Pro's multipronged zealot attack not hitting at the same time, but at his level I think drawing the F2 army into the main first and then hitting the lower bases is a good call. At higher levels players will be able to withstand both, but this will ravage Plat.
He probably would be better if he paid a little less attention to timings and just kept macroing. Cutting workers for a timing is good, but he could've had 3 fully saturated bases by the time his attack hit. He seems to spend his money on army and upgrades well, so having some more money would do him good.
So cute watching Harstem pretend he isn't Hatsune Miku's biggest fan
21:39 - Harstem discovering Toss is actually IMBA here...
That marathon analogy was perfect! Also this guy could get promoted a time or two if someone told him about recall
Hatsune was a pretty impressive voice synthesizer/instrument. I don't think anybody ever said it was AI. Basically the same thing as a synthesizer you would use to make techno or dubstep but designed to mimic vocals.
Toss threw away too many units with economy that could not support that. He killed bases and drones but zerg army was mostly intact. Losing prodution and economy as zerg is bad but not as bad when your army is not dying. So basically toss played like a zerg but without the "bigger economy" part (resources lost in the end tell the story).
Thing that was odd was he went after buildings over workers. Moreover, it seemed to me the rouches did more damage
The roach tanking was huge. Colossi don't do well against it. Could've just gone into disruptors or storms though and it would have been a lot less of an issue.
To me it looks like the problem was he consistently traded his army to kill eco, but never attacked the zerg army. His army kept getting smaller while the zerg kept slowly building up. He was playing better but never actually traded until the zerg has double his army supply and the eco damage didn't keep up
im proud of this guy
I think IODIS could have a new stamp: “Declined! Definitely NOT IMBA, but at least you don’t suck (that much).”
I play both of these guys once in awhile; fun to see them here.
That rant about real music vs Japanese robot music had me in stitches
15:30 here comes a problem! Traded most of Protoss army for hatcheries. Now Zerg army much bigger. (Kinda stating the obvious, but doesn't seem obvious to Proletariat.)
The concept behind Hatsune Miku is the same concept behind the Gorillaz and Dethklok. That is, an animated set of characters are the persona of the actual musicians and, I for one, find it very entertaining.
Harstem to a plat player: "it does not feel like you suck!"
Me: "finally my time to shine!" 😂
Burglars do usually ring the door bell before entering to check if anyone is home. So good burglar, plat StarCraft player
The bit about Hatsune Miku is completly wrong. Let me correct this: there's a software called Vocaloid for synthesising singing voice. Basicily it makes your computer sing with human/robotic voice. Hatsune Miku is one of the available voices for it, so no one is impersonating her, they literally use her voice. (Or rather the voice of Saki Fujita who provided the voice as Hatsune Miku is just a character, not an actual human being.)
Also fun fact: Despite the name meaning "the first sound of the future" and having codename CV01 (Character Voice 01) Miku wasn't the first voice for the software. But she was the first one being sold as anime girl, so yeah.
About the live performances: true, the voice will be the same, but the band plays the music live. Also different producers tune voices differently so Hatsune Miku sounds different when used by for example Pinocchio-P, wowaka or Mitche M.
Right clicking the hatcheries instead of letting the zealots kill drones might be the greatest example of negative micro
1:15 I'm baffled and intrigued already.
if protos had one of those orb exploding thingies , oh man, so much difference popping off standing still hydras and roaches
Love the rules xD
i personally am a fan of hatsune miku.
love your is it imba comments always make me laugh keep the content going its really good
I kind of feel the same with the Hatsune Miku concerts, but then I remember back in the old days, everyone thought that video games as a sport was a silly concept and no one would watch a bunch of nerds sitting in front of T.Vs. Times really do change.
2006 being called old makes me feel like I’m going to dissolve into dust any moment 😅
10:20 Extractor vision IMBA!!
What I think went wrong was that the Proletariat traded 5-8 zealots (~700 minerals) for every hatchery (300 minerals) and then no attacks happened for a minute. The zerg simply rebuilt bases, and the number of workers always remained the same; in fact, the strength of the zerg economy fell only for a while.
What could be done (you can choose any):
1) First raise the number of workers to ~80, and then send zealots
2) build 5-7 disruptors
3) Send dark templars to every base, not just one, and control them a little better
4) It seems to me that if in the last battle protoss had time to put the zealots in front, he would have traded to a draw
5) Research Psi-storm. Leave 5-6 High Templars in the army
6) Play zealot-allin properly: by the 5 minute you already should have Charge, a Prism and 7-8 gateways and be already near the opponent's 3rd base
Burglars ring the doorbell when they want to rob the house and not the residents themselves
In fact there are people running marathons backwards, and thus in very decent timing!
I feel like Harstem needs a few more stamps for his form.
"You could just have easily have won this game, ideally this game would be a draw" = Declined reason: too close to call.
Or specifically for our Toss here who bad targeting: "Declined Reason: Submitter Threw" "Declined Reason: Fix your weaknesses."
That dt in the drone line with no spore huuuuurt my soul
This guy could be top diamond or even masters by not wasting apm on zealots to attack buildings and learning a build
This IODIS really shows Harthstem''s weakness. He doesn't do the trade math in his head so he thinks the protoss is doing well.
90's hip hop was the era for sure for real music
"First one of 2024"
*looks in top left corner of screen during reading of complaint form
That ain't it chief
Should have created a stamp just for this guy
"You are stupid"
Yeah it sort of feels like a diamond+ player trolling… like you said it’s like he knows what’s right and wrong and doing both intentionally. Like a chess player sacking his pieces to keep the game going awhile longer.
I think the problem was that Proletariat is technically good at everything, but never at the same time, if that makes sense. When he does zealot runbies at the right time, he clicks the hatcheries. When he's microing the zealots, his multi-prong attack becomes a sequential one instead. When he's actually multipronging and doing a lot of damage, he follows it up by losing his whole army to roach-hydra. His macro was good, but that got equalized by the bad build and being on low probes intentionally for a long time. Something was always going wrong, it just wasn't consistently the same thing like it is with most other players.
Also, shouldn't he have just made some HTs? Or rather, just gotten the upgrade and not merged them all into archons?
It's like doing everything to be in front the goal and miss it
Proletariat wont kill any proletarian workers of the kuprulu sector
His "signature zealot drop owned as usual" - looks more like it got owned.
Haven't watched the game yet but I hear a Protoss complaining about Hydras and my first question is "why don't you just make Disruptors? You already have the robo for the Warp Prisms"
Proletariat was remarkably worker-shy for it's circumstances
As a pleb, it looked like the opening build just cuts too much to try to deal as much damage as possible with the zealot drops, essentially ruining his own economy to ruin theirs. After the attack, the eco is about the same for both, but the other guy has an army still. From there he just never caught up in army between engagements.
Its like a construction contractor is trying to build a shed. He brings all the right tools for the job. Has the right plans for the job. But instead of putting his nails in to boards he instead hammers them in a near by tree.
Harstem: You know what this is like..... *Me, oh yes, time for a good line haha*
Storm drops woulda been insane in this game with those drones constantly stacking up. Good try Proletariat
HatsuneMiku is a bit like Gorillaz then ?
He started throwing away units, he had the advantage but at some point he should’ve stopped but he didn’t until it was too late. The Zerg player got to keep his army, or at least enough if it that the toss couldn’t really ever catch up in armysupply before being attacked. The only solution I know to that is keep the pressure on but with way less commitment, forcing the Zerg to stay home while buying time to build army
A video of harstems boomer takes on all the different vocaloids would be pretty funny
If you want to be successful you can either do things right, or do the right things.
Some of these iodis submitters straight up does the wrong things wrong, while a select few actually do the wrong things right.
The proletarist seems familiar, like it's been featured in some shoe before
I've never seen Harstem so confused before.
This was the first one that I watched where I thought, this guy just needs some minor adjustments and in time could actually go very high in the ranks. If he learned better target prio I think he could, after watching this game and thinking all games are similar to this, go an entire league higher just off that. Other things obviously to work on but overall I actually enjoyed this game.
It's as impressive as a student selecting all the wrong choices in a multiple-choice exam.
Shoutout to all my brothers who used Hatsune as their background even though you had no idea who it was.
Between 15:52 to 19:32 the Protoss made a total of 10 probes lmfao
Honestly if Proletariat just learns one decent build that requires minimal micro, he could easily hit Masters.
is this the first-ever non-stamp-suck?? :O
19:30 "Majoring in the minors?" Focusing on the wrong goals.
17:39 Extended Thermal Lance!!!
-1k resources every trade is the real issue
starting the year with harstem complaining about them Chinese cartoons is fucking great lol
> our dancing robot
Hatsune Miku is the *singing* robot Harstem
It is funny that Harstem comments "no sentry here" for a plat player. I have never seen sentries used in this way at this level. Harstem should know better.
Awesome game and commentary!
Its amazing that these people send in their replays without watching them first lol
Don’t underestimate Miku, Harstem. Yoasobi, Kenshi Yonezu and many other composers all started with Vocaloid. Look at where they are now: Billboard top 100, a-list etc, all started with Miku. ;)
mass hydra ''A" move. Brood War style
I think maybe he didn't understand the difference between a roach and a hydralisk.
I think of the 151 zealots that died, very nearly all of them died to roaches or spine crawlers.
Yeah, there were a bunch of hydras at the end but they mostly just got cooked by colossussues.