The Truth about KTM's Demo Mode (from a real owner)
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- Опубліковано 16 сер 2023
- For 2023 KTM has introduced their demo mode, which allows you to try features such as cruise control, quickshifter, rally mode and more. We cover what the demo mode is and isn't, how it works, and the pros and cons. #motorcycle #ktm
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Now that you know what it is, do you think KTM's demo mode is good or bad? Share below.
It seems to me that those features are a good value @ $700. But the way this was rolled out seems silly. Why create this angst for the customer. Just have them choose that option at the dealer when they bought the bike. I don’t have a KTM mostly because they don’t appeal to me aesthetically. But this approach makes me wonder about lots of other things with this manufacturer.
I'm not for demo, or trial at all. You buy that bike, and the KTM dealer should say... there are some interesting features in this package, do you want it? Obviously, they have a cost, period. Then I decide. This is my opinion. I'm not for electronics, like USB, connections with phones, tablet, PC or whatever. When I drive a bike, I drive a bike, my phone is off in my pocket, I don't need any kind of USB connection. I have a map in my pocket, I have a mouth to ask for indications. I was born where electronics wasn't even a word. This world is upside down and I don't like it. A lot of people are interested in money only and take advantage of others. Let's see what will happen next. Thanks for the video, interesting!
My honest opinion: demo mode is complete nonsense! KTM should be honest and admit that this is a hidden markup. KTMs are already overpriced. Quality does not hold up to the sticker.
Common, everybody wants these extras. Customers are fooled.
Then you’d get assholes moaning that it’s too expensive and I’d buy it if it didn’t have all the tech features on!
The manufacturers can’t win.
FFS! If you don’t want them then don’t get them. Let them stay locked after 1500KM Not difficult.
If I was adding the additional hardware features of cruise control, quick shifter, rally mode, etc., to a bike I would expect to pay for it, like I did with my R1250GSA. However, with KTM, the hardware is already installed on the bike and their hardware costs are already incorporated into their pricing structure. So essentially the owner has already paid for it. Charging an extra software 'turn-on fee' after the demo period expires seems underhanded. If the bike came with the hardware installed for these features it should keep working without holding the new owner hostage to keep it working. KTM really dropped the ball on this one.
Only in your opinion ! Compare and other bike in this price range and show me one that has this spec ?
@@orange1666 The hardware is on the bike and they sold it at X price. Therefore, they baked it all into the price of the bike, because otherwise they'd lose money on every single bike whose owner does not purchase the subscription/activation.
For example, I bought heated grips for my DesertX ($200) but the dealer has to "activate" that setting in the ECU for the OEM button to work. Now imagine if those heated grips were standard.. the bike would not have cost $17000, it would have been $17200 or whatever arbitrary number they make up to cover parts. Then I'd also pay activation for the feature. That is what KTM is doing.
@@KingJreff 🥱🥱🥱
This isn't a subscription service but it sure feels like dipping a toe in the water and seeing how people react in order to ready the ground for subscription services later. Once you've set up for "demo mode", turning it into "premium features subscription" is pretty trivial.
100%, this is the slippery slope we've been warning about. Car makers are transforming add-ons into subscriptions, KTM is following the same path.
so neither of you have bought a new car or truck in the last 30 years either then
On bikes? Not really as they’re not connected to internet. If they become connected, sure. But that’s not the reality right now.
I too purchased a 2023 KTM 890 Adventure. I knew that I wanted the features that the tech pack included, so I paid the $700 up front when purchasing the bike. I made it a point to verify that the tech pack was enabled and that I wouldn’t need to return to the dealer to have them enable the tech pack. Well, guess what happened….I was on a 5 day motorcycle trip and my features disappeared at about 960 miles. Losing the quickshifter was a real drag because our route had sections that would make the tail of the dragon look tame. What was unforgivable was losing the cruise control. I called my dealer from the road and told them what happened. The kid in the service department said they were still learning about it and didn’t think the demo made could be deactivated. I don’t know if KTM did a good job educating the dealer or not regarding disabling the demo mode. Personally, I didn’t care about paying for the tech pack to get the features I wanted. What really irks me is the fact that there is that Bluetooth connectivity doesn’t come standard on the bike, that is yet another extra. If I had known that, I most likely would’ve gotten another bike because that is hitting below the belt. I think the TPMS is a safety feature that should be included as standard…many other bikes do. I don’t care about the navigation aspect, my phone and com system does that. Other than that, I do enjoy the bike…just feel like I’ve been taken to the cleaners. I will not be returning to the dealer to get any more service done after getting the tech pack installed, they have no concept of what service after the sale means. When test riding the bike, I noticed a wheel hop between the speeds of 37 and 50 mph. When picking up the bike I was told the front 8:02 wheel had been rebalanced and everything checked out good. Upon riding it home, it was still there. A week later, I returned it to the dealer to have them check it out. I returned a couple days later, and was told everything was fine…rode it home, hop was still there. When the break-in service came due, I decided to take it to another dealer. I mentioned the wheel hop and they also rebalanced the front wheel….rode the bike back home, still had the wheel hop. Took the bike back, they acknowledged that was a wheel hop and rebalanced the wheel yet again. When picking it up, I was told that they were unable to get rid of the hop and it was most likely an incompatibility between the tire and the bike…huh? At this point, I contacted KTM factory service and explained my dilemma I was experiencing. He told me to take the bike back to the dealer that actually acknowledged that there was a wheel hop and have them open up a warranty case. KTM factory service people worked with the local service technicians to diagnose the issue. After ruling out all possibilities, it was determined that it had to be either the tire or the wheel. KTM is going to put a new set of tires on the bike under warranty. Kudos to KTM for backing what they are selling.
KTM should charge the full price with all the features included, then offer a $700 discount if you don’t want them. That would be a PR win, as opposed to the bad PR that has been generated by their current approach
Excellent
@@phatsmitty YUP!!
Novel Approach!
I guess the glass would be "half full" then....🤔🤔🤔
Dream on
What a scam. The bike you buy has the software and hardware but gets turned off. Why turn it off?? Pure extortion!! I’ll never buy another KTM, they have no ethics!!
I recently purchased this up front when buying the new 790 adventure. I'd be someone who sits on I could live without it, so had to evaluate from a "is this good value" perspective, and ultimately my answer was yes. These are a good bundle of very useful features for not that crazy amount of money, and all in, the price is still pretty good in comparison with other options in the class (couldn't even get cruise control if I wanted it for the Transalp, for example). I also convinced the dealer to knock about 250 off that price too, so not feeling annoyed about it after the fact.
Make no mistake, if the tech is on the bike, the base price of the bike accounts for those features being included. They're not doing anyone a favor by allowing us the option to turn them on for more money. While it might not be a subscription, its the same unethical business practice that car manufacturers use when charging subscriptions to turn on features that are already there. If you bought the bike, you bought those features. Whether or not its enabled.
Couldn’t agree more.
If it's functional visible hardware which makes the difference, you get what you pay for.
If a vehicle is jammed with electronics, how now is a corporation supposed to monetize the value of all the R&D that was required to get those electronics properly functional?
If you're buying a PC, there's the cost of hardware, but you have to also pay for the digits that make the hardware functional. How is that any different in the vehicle world which is getting increasingly more dependent on silicon chips to make decisions about how the experience functions?
@@exothermal.sprocket false equivalence. The actual equivalent in the computer world would be buying a graphics card, and then having to pay extra for the drivers.
@@davidwales9657 Everyone is a contrarian on the internet. It's word smith drag racing. Who can hit the lights sooner and win all the word drag arguments.
@@exothermal.sprocket are you saying you lost? Because if so, its been a pleasure
I also picked up a new 2023 890 adventure about a month ago, luckily the dealership I worked with really had their stuff together. They were able to explain exactly what the tech pack was and how it worked, even gave me a discount on it since I got the tech pack same day as the bike. (I knew I would want all the electronics.) Find yourself a good dealer to work with folks and it makes the process a lot better, check out GJ KTM in Colorado.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. Great video content as always - very informative and brief. I think if they presented this demo mode the opposite way as a "sale" or discount, so that if you dont want to use it on the start because you want spend money elsewhere and then you will comeback and turn that features later on, it would have better audience than a "premium feature" label.
Yes!
They overestimated the IQ level of their customers 😂😂
I totally agree with you🍻🍻
After-all the ‘free sample’ method has been out-there for ages…
I thing they underestimated that said IQ. This is not a free sample. This is the whole package. With the free sample you get a smaller something (perfume, toothpaste whatever) then if you like it you go buy the actual product. KTM is giving you the whole freaking thing and won't let you use it. If you think you didn't already pay for the extra hardware, you're likely mistaken.
Hahaha
@@johnnyblue4799 free sample of all 4 features for 1,500 km.
Pick all, none or just one…
It’s not a perfume it’s added features which you can purchase if you want them.
I think I would only purchase the cruise control for myself but your mileage may vary 🍻🍻
The biggest question, which is really hard to answer, is if the hardware for the extras was not on the bike at time of purchase, would that lower the price of the bike. Only ktm knows that, but I'm assuming that since they bolted the hardware on, they will at least to some degree increase the sale of the base bike. As a consumer, all you can do is compare the base bike to other models and see if it's worth it. KTM's are generally more expensive so the choice is up to the consumer.
This video length is perfect. Thanks.
I have a 22- 390 Adventure and went back to the dealer for quickshifter+ install. I would have saved lots of time just getting it when I bought the bike. I do love the quickshifter and it was worth the money.
Agreed but that's not what the debate is about.
I think its easier and faster to have one production line with all the features build in it, and enable it (with extra cost) with software settings.
it's like ordering a burger and then they bring you a decked out burger with all the toppings, scrape it off to the side and say "ok, toppings extra", sure it means that every time a burger gets ordered the process is smoother but those toppings don't get re-used.. they are thrown in the bin if you don't use them.
EXACTLY
One production line make’s economic sense. Another way of looking at it is you would pay for extra farkles like skid plates, hand guards etc. the option of having these things seamlessly integrated the product is compelling. The sticking point is these things are hardware with a physical presence and the KTM options are electrical and have no solid components. You were spot on with saying KTM has a PR or marketing problem that possibly may resolve in time. Then again, they may have PR work to do.
Problem is some of these features also require extra hardware to function such as the quick shifter and suspension pro. Those can't be made purely software based, and you will be definitely paying for those extras in the base price of the motorcycle. It may not be as utterly egregious as Tesla charging for extended range, and the batteries are already included and payed for in the car (and worse the weight of those extra useless batteries decrease the range further). But I am still against it and think including extra hardware on a vehicle that you pay for and cannot use without paying for software or a monthly fee should be illegal.
Plus it is a slippery slope, if they get away with this, what will they try next? maybe down-tuning the engine unless you give them more money, how about paywalling safety features, heated grips and seats but only if you give them a monthly subscription?
@@richardfrantz9539 my problem is there is a no-win situation for the consumer though... you already bought the bike... KTM are not going to open their books and tell you whether or not the extra cost of manufacturing was already rolled in.. you just have to take it on faith.. but then are you also paying for the fact the hardware was installed on every other bike if you do decide to buy it? They are not doing you any favors as a company, they are out for profit so you really have to decide which truth you prefer and be ok with either paying extra for something that might already have been paid for or paying more for something because other people are not using it.
Hi Ian love your work. This is a tuff one, I get that they enable electronic suite so you can have a try before you buy but i can see why customers feel they are being cheated with bike already fully enabled. Dare i say most of us already know what we want before dropping our hard earned cash on a new bike anyway so i reckon the experiment is a fail.
Frankly I think it was all blown out of proportions. Then again I'm an old IT guy. What KTM did has been de facto in software businesses for a long time. But they should perhaps have spent a little bit more time on the "what if's" before launching. I bought the same bike as you, with tech pack and a few other options. One bein the Powerparts LEDs which I think are surprisingly good for their small size. Never regretted ny of it. A bike with all bells and whistles inherently has greater value in an aftermarket. Especially where I am at. Now, soon 15.000 kilometers later, I don't regret my choices any less, whether we talk about the bike as a whole, or the extra options :) Cheers.
I enjoy your channel, Ian. Straightforward and honest. $700? Hmmm.... Dealers in the St. Louis / Southern Illinois are quoting around the $900 mark.
Thanks for another great video Ian! I, have no issue with this DEMO mode, as long as KTM and it's dealers stress and give the info up front. "Here's all these features, you can DEMO them for x Miles / Hours or you can buy any or all of them up front". It's all about being honest up front. Personally, I'll pay up front! Also, curious....which do you prefer... 890S vs 901 Norden?
I see you got a better skid plate, looks awesome! - what make is that?, I need to get one since I still have the thin OEM version
I'm find with charging for the Tech package like this. The issue I have is with some dealers. The place I was originally planning on buying this bike from, wanted to charge me $822 for the tech pack. This is after I'd questioned the fact the sales guy said it was about $1000. The place I'm now getting the bike from is going to charge $699 pre tax ($744). Needless to say I won't be giving the initial dealer any more business.
I did my homework about the bike and knew about the demo mode.There was actually a bike show in Toronto where KTM was giving away tech packs for free,so I was one of the lucky ones and did not pay for a tech pack.I would have paid for the tech pack anyways,love the bike and all the features.
Was this at the bike show they do over by the airport in January each year or another one?
... My brother in Montana has that bike and he just got the full modes turned back on.
I can see both sides of the subject.
Ride well,
. Jeff .
I think you did an excellent job explaining this. One definitely has to realize that you were always going to pay for the features. The rub though was packaging as a demo mode. Curious about peoples experiences at the dealer and point of sale...did the dealer fully explain and give you the option up front to purchase?
Soon, a manufacturer will create one motorcycle and charge you to turn on different levels of performance. The base level will be provided with “250” stickers and 18hp. Give the dealer an additional $1500 and they will apply “650” stickers and open the power to 50hp. For $10k extra, they skip the 950 stickers and go straight to the 1300, apply a gold wrap to your suspension and unlock the 150hp. Next year, they will provide you with an OTA update for the 1350 and a discount voucher for an extra 5 lb-ft torque.
Hi , I think demo mode is fine .. good job on all your videos ! Also what brand skid plate is that ? I am needing one … especially after Your incident with the case .. thanks
I think it's a great idea. You get to try out all the bells and whistles for 900 miles and pick what you want. Ala Carte. If I was in the market for a KTM I would do that in a heartbeat. Best!
Hi Ian, I hope you’ll consider making a video of how you’ve equipped your 890. You have a great channel!
It's nice to get a chance to try-before-buy options for a new machine. Sometimes you may decide that you don't want some or all of them, and this gives you time to research the after-market offerings, if any. However, I am glad to hear that KTM does not increase the price for the options if you let the demo package expire.
Ian, Thanks for your opinion on the Demo Mod issue. I agree it should be offered as an "option" up front. That would eliminate a lot of the criticism. BTW, when will we see an update on your suspension upgrades ?
Hey Ian, the spot at 4:58, where there are a few seconds of black video, was there supposed to be a price comparison sheet? Odd blackout/silence at that spot.
The concept of "free trial" is very common in the world of software, maybe they should have named it this way to avoid confusion instead of trying to be clever with "demo mode".
One reason they're doing it.
On the whole, it's cheaper to build one bike with no options and everything the same. So the "extras" now cost them less, at least on a per unit basis, and then as you said, they'll hope people get used to having it, and suddenly miss it when it stops.
The second part, and this is more relevant to say bmw with their pay per feature setup on cars, but will be similar to a lesser extent with bikes.
Resale will be higher for a low spec model, because owner 2 or 3 etc can go and "activate" a feature they want, even if the original buyer didn't pay for it. Ergo to me, cruise is a deal breaker.
But now I could buy the non cruise activated bike, knowing I can quickly and easily add it. Not have to go aftermarket &/or hack job. Which can be expensive, painful, or both.
A cynic would say a bmw dealer could trade a used car, deactivate the features to "re sell" them to the next buyer.
Or an astute second hand shopper could negotiate features as a requirement of purchase.
Either way, it's certainly becoming a brave new world our there, for better or worse.
It depends on the customers. If they think the KTM-strategy works for them, more manufacturers will be doing it aswell. If there is more critisism than benefits, then the strategy will be altered again.
Hello I’ve been watching your videos for a long time now. Thank you for the precious information. Yes I think that KTM is doing this demo mode so people can understand and know how these features run before they purchase plus it’s an advertisement thingy.
I would like to know what brand is the skid plate that you installed on the motorcycle as it covers both sides of the tank.
Thank you
I don’t mind the demo mode. I didn’t get the demo mode on my 1290SA-R but my buddy did on his 890R. I learned that the best feature was the “Rally Mode”. I had that activated on my bike and is the best upgrade so far. I have had quick shifters in the past and while they are fun and useful, in some situations, for me it’s not necessary on this bike.
Great explanation and all of your bike reviews are very honest and we'll researched,,,,, my take on the demo mode issue is,,,, ktm had a team meeting and a intern trying to climb the company ladder put their hand up and said,,, hey I have a idea on how we can increase some revenue and they ran with it,,,,,,,, and to be honest all of the manufacturers will do similar,,,,, but I have a solution to the demo mode,,,,, first put on your grown up pants and when the option to further the ride modes comes up than buy it or don't buy it simple,,, why do we always have to make news outa non news,,,,,,, now back to Ian,,,, hope more people subscribe great channel
Good video and well explained as usual mate. Now the tldr:
Objective facts (with friends working in the industry)
1. KTM and all other manufacturers make decisions based on all the usual factors i.e. design, material costs, manufacturing lines etc. You will either buy the product, or you won't.
2. It is far cheaper for manufactures to create one product. Then, 'giving access' is another profit centre
So, the upshot, the manufacturer saves money by simplifying their manufacturing and delivery processes. Then, they make additional profit by selling you the 'added benefit' of the additions that are already on the product.
If the manufacturer were 'nice' (which is obviously the antithesis of running a profit driven endeavour), they would be happy 'enough' with the cost savings garnered by simplifying the manufacturing/deliver processes.
If you are not happy with these facts, vote with your wallet. Fully understand however, this is the way forward for most, if not all product manufacturers. KTM was not the first and will certainly not be last.
I kinda understand and think it’s good for stuff like the cruise control and quick shift that have always just come on the bike already. I do think it’s a big problem tho especially in the case of the BMW heated seats where they are charging money and wasting resources on putting features in every car and then forcing you to pay extra to use them
I like the way you think and kindly way of expressing it
Im gone pick up my 890 adv tomorrow and it already got the tech pack installed
i would love to ride a 890 R and i already had two ktm bikes - a 790 R and a 660 Smc. Both bikes were fun to ride but very, very service intensive. Maybe i had a "monday modell", or just bad luck with my 790R. But come on - i mean its hard to buy a new bike (790R) and i during the first 3000 km - i visited the dealership 4 times because of oil leaking. After that little journey they wanted some extra money for cruise control and other "fancy gadgets". PLS KTM MAKE YOUR BIKES MORE !RELIABLE!
i really like your videos! extremly helpful content!!
I bought mine in June and got Tec pack for free ie included in the deal. They also gave discount on the bike so overall great deal. Worth shopping around.
As you said skip the demo mode and just get the tech pack when you buy the bike. If you are a ktm buyer you are going to want the tech pack, it is worth the money. You will not be disappointed. Lots of people change suspension, foot pegs, handle bars, seats, mirrors, levers etc, etc and add luggage and racks,all at extra price, so in context charging for tech pack features is no better or worse, just a fact of riding life.
Agree on all points...I think KTM made the mistake of calling it a "Subscription"....or it was labeled as a subscription - Just buy it at time of purchase saves the hassle later on. Nice job and again agree on all points...well done!!
Oooh... looking forward to this 😀
Hello! I have the 790 2023, and I think that this is a way to let us test it, if they didn't had the demo Mode how would i know?
Keep it up! Thanks for the videos!
I bought a 2021 earlier this year instead of getting a 2023, partially for this reason. Demo Mode merely put a spotlight on the bad practice of putting the hardware and software on the bike and burying the charges in the base price. It seems it is inevitable as features move towards software implementation instead of hardware, but I think this is one case where progress isn’t universally seen as a good thing.
They should reward loyalty, if you service the bike at the ktm dealer, everytime you get a new feature or credit towards it at least. That would encourage upgrades and in house servicing. It saves a fortune installing the features in the manufacturing process
Hi, I think the better way to do from the Cie is sale with full options already on. The bike probably cost more like 700 $ , but you pay more and you have more. So like that if from the cie every thing are on the bike when you buy .... you just decide if you want to choose this bike at some price. And you have a full load bike... for a little bit more $$
Here's a question. There's an 890 Duke R for sale locally that was purchased from an insurance company that got the bike from a dealership that flooded. So the bike's software was never unlocked by KTM. Does anyone know the process to get this sodtware unlocked or if there's a workaround?
I didn’t mind the demo mode when I bought my ‘23 in April. It was fun having all those options but after it expired the only ones I truly missed were the quick shifter and cruise control. Quick shifter just for the smile factor. I wasn’t skilled enough off-road to really appreciate everything about the rally mode. 4,000 mostly off-road miles later and I wish I just paid to have all that turned on when I picked the bike up, but I didn’t know I was going to love it as much as I do. It’s a little bit annoying now as the dealership I got it from is almost two hours away but it’ll give me a reason to go on a long ride some Saturday I guess. At this point it kind of is what it is. If you don’t like it I don’t think KTM cares all that much. Unless they saw a massive dip in sales since this sort of thing I doubt they’re paying that much attention.
Ian, You make some great points. Interestingly in my experience on the front lines, I find that most of those that are taking issue with the demo mode as it pertains to KTM are not KTM buyers nor riders. Don’t give crying on social media any credit, it’s just crying for cryings sake, keyboard Karens are everywhere, and this is a great example. Since demo mode was introduced I’ve not seen one KTM buyer that took issue with it. To avoid this whole issue buy a Tiger 900 you get more tech all standard, or don’t. Riders should just stop the insanity or start their own bike manufacturer and run it their way. I’m sure they’ll do better than KTM just ask one of them.
You are correct Ian, it's how you look at it...I bought a 2017 Super Duke GT and when I realized all the options like quick shifter ect. were separate ,when I went for my first service I paid to have them and other things turned on... no big deal. It is just like buying a Harley and realizing the seat sucks right from the factory and you have to purchase another seat ! At least with the KTM method you do not have to pay a huge labor bill to get those parts on..... Why would Harley want you to purchase all those parts AFTER you just bought a brand new bike ? lol...
The quick shifter was 100% already factored into the MSRP price when you bought the Super Duke. You got fucked. Car manufactures do the same thing.
My opinion is that they did this so that they could state a lower MSRP. I think the bike should have had the extra 700 dollars added into the MSRP although it obviously would've been higher. On the other hand when I bought my 2018 1290 SAR the quick shifter was extra and I wasn't interested in that feature so I didn't pay for it and saved some money. If you don't want all the features the demo mode plan works for you but if you do want all of them than you feel like you're getting ripped off so just include them in the MSRP and avoid all the drama.
Wanted to let you know that one of the reasons I bought the bike last month was based on your review. We have similar bikes in general. (350 EXC, SV650S track, Super Tenere ES, KTM 890 ADV)
I liked Demo mode. I enjoyed experimenting with it. I would have paid for cruise control , since I have it on the Super T, but I was not sure about the quickshifter and rally mode.
I am still not sure. 😊 I have been riding clutchless shifting, especially upshifting since my track days over 20 years ago, I am not sure this one is necessary for me. I like rally mode for pavement and hardpack gravel, but not sure I need it for more serious off road.
Neither of these are going to break the bank, and I am going to pay for all of it with a discount from the dealer. I believe this was a good decision for KTM to go that route.
I'm glad someone was finally honest about Demo mode. A lot of people made videos for click bait. And naturally a lot of people just took what they heard as facts and didn't bother to check themselves. People will never agree on the matter and don't have to. Because good news! If you don't want those features you don't have to pay for them. If you do, you can get them.
20 years ago manufacturers advertised all the amazing features installed in their motorcycles. You went to the dealer and purchased that motorcycle with all the amazing features. And that was it.
If we as consumers want to put an end to KTM's demo mode practice. It would be pretty simple. When The customers negotiate a purchase price for the new bikes at the dealerships they make an offer their comfortable with and say that that offer must include the tech pack. If the dealership says no then they should walk out the door. Then there would be no more demo mode and you can have the bike with the features you want at the price you want which is how it always should be.
2023: demo mode: 15000km, quickshifter and cruise disabled
2025: demo mode: 10000km, headlight, turn signals, HUD disabled
2027: demo mode: 1000km, front brake disabled
2030: demo mode: 100km, then max speed is10km/h
Hello Ian. How do you think about the all new 2023 790 Adventure. I’m not a prof offroad rider. The 790 kosts €4000 less than the 890(not the R)here in Holland.
Eric from Holland.
Btw like your reviews! Alway clear👌🏼
I agree with everything that you said. PR mistake, everything else makes sense. I think it would have been a worse mistake for a Japanese company though. KTM is hard to replace. If you want a KTM you want a KTM.
My dealer in the UK included the full tech pack in the price of the bike. £11499.00 on the road.
From KTM's perspective, I believe they save costs in manufacturing the bike and logistics for spare parts by having all 890 using the same parts. This allows them to manufacture a single model (other than R) and although the parts like quickshifter and buttons cost a bit, this is not significant to affect their margins.
The advantage of demo mode is to try something you may consider not useful or of you have doubts about using it; it lets you try it.
Also it’s good because if you need it in the future, after buying the bike you can get it very easily for a fee
I agree Ian, bad PR decision. When I bought my 2023 890 AR, I knew I wanted all the electronic features and priced it up with the Tech Pack. As far as I was concerned, that was the price of the bike I was basing my purchase decision on.
I think this is a great option, being able to demo the features and determine if they’re worth the extra money.
People complaining don’t realize that the result will be that either KTM will just bundle it into the bikes MSRP, and then everyone is forced to pay for it, removing consumer choice, or they will move to a model that requires equipment to be retro fitted to make these options available, which will increase the cost of the bikes.
Not sure if this is case at every KTM dealer, but my local shop mentioned it would cheaper to have the tech installed when you first purchase the bike, rather than later.
Don’t really care if I was buying a new KTM 890 I would negotiate with the dealer to throw in the Tek pack in with the price or I ain’t buying
First of all, I think people should be better informed when they spent 15000€ on a product, I do cause I have to work a lot for it.
You explained everything very well in this video, before if people wanted the tech pack they should have buy it without trying it, now they have a possibility to try, the only thing that I don't like it's the cruise control buttons, cause if you don't want CC they will stay there.
The most of the comments out there, are from people that will not buy this bike, and never had the intention to do it.
Just one question, the msr it's only for street mode use?
In rally mode mine is greyed out.
I like it because the bike is built with all the potential upgrades and features in the hardware. You get to sample it and at any time can decide what you want to keep if not all or any. Unlike a GS for example ( I have owned a 2014 GS and a 2018 GSA ) - you have to order the bike or the dealer ordered the bike from the factory and that’s how it was built and you can’t upgrade anything after delivery. Remember you can for the life of the bike add these features at any time.
Should help resale too. If you didn't unlock cruise but a potential buyer wants it, a quick trip to the dealer solves the problem.
Great video and it does suck that you have to pay for things on the bike....... would rather just have it included. Hell we upgrade these bikes anyway.
I bought a 890R a month ago , and my dealer did not say a word about the tech pack until I brought it up . I think KTM should just raise the price and include the tech pack
I think the demo mode is a good idea to allow a buyer to try features and see if they want them. What's the process for upgrading? Does the bike need to be at the dealer for weeks, awaiting the service queue for the upgrade? That wouldn't be a good look. If it's a quick, hook up a laptop, enter the registration keys and grt you out in an hour, then that's reasonable.
I dont have a massive issue with it, but it counter intuitive to pay extra for those elements which are already on the bike like the quick shifter.
Whether you know it or not, you paid for that quick shifter to be installed. Now considering its already been installed and you paid for it already, charging you more to "unlock" it is ridiculous. You they didnt factor in the labor and material costs to install thousands of quick shifters on bikes with riders who opt out of the tech package. They are highly insulting our intelligence as customers. Vote with your wallet this is an outrage
If they had just added $700 to the cost of the bike and automatically included it, no one would have bat an eye. It's the psychology of having something and then having it taken away that throws people off. For me the only minor annoyance would be the need to go back to the dealer. Really hoping you do a direct comparison of the Tuareg and the KTM. Thank you for the content Ian!
... Those that wanted to could have it set to not expire at all when they first purchased it, correct?
Ride well,
. Jeff .
Exactly, no one who can afford this bike would be bothered by the extra $700.
going back to dealer is a royal pain. stupid idea, needs to be corrected ASAP.
No need to go back to the dealer.
Just order the Tech pack to be activated before delivery. A 790/890 without the Tech pack is not special.
@@chucklesthefireguy5356just pay the $700 the day you buy it
I’d rather be able to test the extra upgrades and decline them later, rather than paying upfront for some features that I’ll never use. Ex. Quickshifter, or turn by turn navigation 👎🏾
I think the problem is that some riders attempt to grasp at bikes beyond their price range in the first place. Personally, I was in the market for an adventure bike since 2018 but didn’t set foot in a dealer ship until 2023 when I knew that I could afford the entire bike with any extras I wanted on it.
Bike: 2023 Tiger Rally Pro.
The point is that even if you decline those features later you still paid for them. KTM won't install extra bits for free and the bike comes fully enabled.
How do you know for sure you haven't payed for it already? You thing KTM would give all the sensors, lines of code and actuators for free?
@@johnnyblue4799 I understand. But it isn’t like I didn’t know that KTM was doing this before I purchased the bike, or I was thinking of purchasing the bike. If that’s how they want to proceed in their feature roll out then that’s what it is …for now anyway. Definitely think it won’t last because of customer/potential customer feedback.
What’s my choice then? Buy the bike and pay a little extra later OR buy a bike from a different manufacturer. Simple. I’m not married to that brand even though I like their bikes. Truth is a lot of buyers bikes/feature wants can lean toward the unreasonable. Everyone wants the best bikes at garage sale prices. Not realistic.
@@thebigoaktree8401I understand what you're saying, but I wasn't debating personal choices here. If you want the bike and you can go over the fact that they're dishonest about how they sell these features, then no problem, go for it. What bothers me is not people buying the bike, but KTM being dishonest. What's next? Buying a new house with demo toilets and if you don't pay after a month you need to dig an outhouse yourself?
@@johnnyblue4799 hahaha I get that. Especially if KTM didn’t announce that they were rolling out their extra features in such a way. But if they were up front about how they would, I can dislike it, or even be upset about it but I think it’s only dishonest if I’m not told about it in advance.
Personally I have had my fill of video after video of the newest bikes with the best of the best features …until the next bike comes out that out does the last best bike. Manufactures are just manipulating the eager “adventurist” hearts of owners/buyers/potential buyers.
One of the reasons why I enjoy Ian is that, yes he reviews bikes, but he regularly engages a variety of bikes on different levels (track day GS, serious off-roading; Ducati). He uses them, learns from them, and shares his experiences with them. I appreciate and respect that. One of the only places that we can have such constructive dialogue about bikes and such. Cheers.
i wonder if they made a bike that didn't have any of this tech on it at all could you get a 890 for around $10k instead of 15
No, because the "tech" is nothing more than basic PID loops. Cruise control, heated grips could be programmed and tuned by a first or second year coder in a day. Lol lets break out an arduino board. The programming that puts these features behind a paywall is much, much more sophisticated and costly.
@@MrDavidfuchser how do you code heated grips? and quick shifter, cruise control, traction control all require sensors feeding info to the computer wtf are you talking about
I like this option! I wish TV providers did this, let me pay for the channels I want.
Thanks WOW THAT'S AWESOME 👍✌️👌👌👽
I have no problem at all with this. Software is expensive to develop and that is where creative things happen today. My employer sells heavy trucks and we have endless configurations and options depending on customer needs and preferences, all in the software, and they pay for the features the use. Sometimes you need a toggle switch added but that’s it. Also, great way to let users try Cruise Control and see if they like it. From the comments sometimes people wrote “rode for 30 years never needed cruise bla bla” but give them the chance to try is a good thing. I installed heated grips this summer, planning to have them in place long before winter. And already use them in the morning and evening and wondering why I did not put them on earlier. So “Don’t like it, never tried it” maybe KTM actually is able to now turn some customers around. Also, if you don’t want stuff and don’t have the cash, it’s great for resale that the next buyer can go to KTM and post -equip the stuff.
I think it would go a long way for KTM just to include these features to build brand loyalty and value against competitors especially in a motorcycle of this price point which is already really expensive for average folks such as myself to even consider buying. I bought a KTM 390 just because of the great value I think it is however I don't think moving up to an 890 should be double the price.
That's my way, 390 - 890R. KTM offered me a really nice offer with trade-in, I couldn't stay aside 😀
I compared the 890 with the Tuareg 660 and Norden, bought the Aprilia in the end because I was the most comfortable on the bike but the value for money was a big deal too. I wonder how many people will truly benefit from all of the features these electronically advanced bikes have? Things like quick shifters and good traction control settings one can see as being useful to almost everyone in most riding conditions but perhaps the other features could simply be optional extras.
My question is this: To unlock the tech pack it costs an additional $700 but it has to be done at a dealership, does the dealership also charge additional money for the service of unlocking the tech pack?
tesla had a great thing about this, a second hand owner got the car serviced, the techs found he didnt have the license installed for the extra range battery so they reset his system and forced the limit to a normal range battery, they did not change the battery in any way but he had to pay another grand to unlock the feature again.
Demo modes are very very slippery and key thing you are held at ransom because if you dont buy it you dont get the full bike and the resell value is lower
It's like any software, you have to pay for it. Like Adobe Photoshop, you used to buy a disk to install the program but to get the latest upgrades you now have to rent the programs with no option to even run the basics unless you want it.
Ok great video thanks for sharing. As far as a subscription it would have been a ripoff but as you explained it I think it’s a good idea it lets you see what is on offer and if you don’t want the feature you don’t have to pay for something you’re not going to use. Have got so many things these days that have extra features/options that I’ve never used even my Ute I had for 9 years had options that I never ever bothered with so again this is a great idea and really is no different from going to a bike store when you want to upgrade or buy accessories or parts.
Try it before you buy it sounds good to me. Allows you to evaluate how well each feature works and if it's something you'll actually use enough to justify the extra cost. As long as they don't charge more than each features retail or negotiated price to activate them (with the exception of cruise control) I'm fine with the Demo mode.
Another option for ktm would have been to offer their demo mode only to customers that ask for it at the dealer and maybe even have those customers pay an extremely small amount of money. The final result is the same but it may feel less insulting to certain people.
To me personally, the current demo mode system is fine as long as the prices for a bike with and without are what you would expect for the features.
I paid up front for the Tech Pac for my 2021 890R. I believe KTM offered another less featured less costly pac too. I think anyone that buys this bike is missing the point if they don't get it the Tech Pac. However in 2021 the cost was about 200 dollars US less than today. I suppose I could live without the Cruise but it's on my R1200RT and I like it. Others may not care about it. I could live without the quickshifter. One can do clutchless shifts with throttle control. So one could save a few dollars to be used on a skid plate or GPS mount. Never had QS on any bike before but I do like it. Many bikes have it as an option. For me an extra 500 dollars for the Tech Pak is a drop in the bucket compared to the MSRP of the bike. It's a nothing burger in my mind that KTM has this Demo mode.
1. They can (technically) and will some time in the future try out subscriptions, like heated grips for 5$/month during winter months- because they can
2. What happens when you sell the bike? Will it keep the features? Do YOU buy them? Does the seller get them as part if the bike? Does he have to re-buy them again?
3. In some parts its wasting hardware, only because it is cheaper for them to sell a 1-version-fits-all, instead of having to produce bikes as ordered by the customer.
As everyone else says: just sell put it in there for everyone and add 60(?)% of the tech-pack price to the base price. Number would be as high as the percentage buying the tech-pack.
It would cost KTM very little to include the software on a production build.
Most buyers of premium priced KTM products are not price sensitive.
The hassle of making an appointment, leaving the bike at the dealer, hoping it is properly serviced, retrieving the bike is a negative. Then there is a minimum of 2 hour labor charge at my dealer to plug the bike in.
Selling a used KTM without the premium software is more of a problem. Buyers use it as a leverage point. We all know thousands spent on accessories does not add thousands to resale.
I bought used, no software pack. Would like to have quick shift which I have used, and maybe MSR which I have not.
If KTM offered this bike with minimal rider electronic aids as the T7 is sold. And one with all features included, how much cheaper would the base be with none of the computers sensors and software? How well would it sell?
I think they should just make the tech pack standard. It’s hard to imagine anyone doesn’t buy it anyways.
They could do it the way Triumph does with the standard and pro models but that adds cost to the manufacturer for having to build two separate models just for features. But then again that’s been the way it’s been done for years in the automotive industry.
I think I pretty much agree.
It's not like KTM were the first (or only) to software enable features on a motorcycle.
My BMW has many of the same sort of things.
However, it was a PR mistake to turn off stuff from a motorcycle that people already own.
It's human nature. We will feel ripped off when that happens.
Just bc KTM has always nickle dimed doesnt make this new version okay. I will pay extra for a part added on but the software is there its just a switch. Between that, god awful looking bikes, high price I spend elsewhere. My T7 with custom susp, 35lb weight reduction by stripping down, and no electronics is the ticket!
how you guys are ok on paying things that are already on the bikes its beyond my comprension.. "unlock them" bruh.... you really think you already didnt pay the production cost of that feuture when they are already in the bike or are you ok with "unloking them"....
at cruise control should be standard for any bike over 10k plus
(this is not a personal attack on big rock moto he is just doing is job by reviewing the demo)
Well you don’t own the software until you pay for it
@@sfade6217then why even comment on this
BMW has already found out why piracy existed in the first place for this reason as well.
If I pay msrp for a bike I own it. That includes using the hardware that was included at that base msrp. I’m not stealing anything from ktm by using the hardware I paid for and I refuse to see this any other way.
Weirdly, I just picked up a 23 SuperDuke and it didn't have demo mode enabled. The dealer didn't even mention or try to sell me the tech pack!
I paid for this upgrade, and it's worth it. I use a lot the cruise control, also some times quick shift, I would pay this upgrade again.
didn't bother with demo mode. got the tech pack installed/loaded/unlocked before delivery.
Someone had to be first with this business model. It will be interesting to see how the other manufacturers react. I'm sure some will also try this model and others will give you everything. Ultimately, we the consumers decided if we want this feature. If we continue to buy bikes with this business model then we will continue to get this type of feature removal system.
I just bought the CF Moto IBEX 800 T and it comes standard with every option you can imagine, (although the new explore version has more ride modes). I hope that KTM and other brands just make these features standard. The people buying these types of bikes will most likely take them on long adventures and will want all the creature comforts.
Your CFMOTO is a KTM mostly or visa versa. I have a 2023 KTM 890R. The frame is CFMOTO. Your engine is KTM. Blurred lines. Huge price difference.
@twowheelpilot this is exactly why I bought the Ibex. I loved my 390 Adventure, but it struggled on the freeway if it was loaded down with my camping gear. The 890R is my idea of a dream bike, but the price was just a little too much for me at the moment.
@@CMB911 yes for sure. Off road is my focus however and the CFMOTO 800 is to road focused for me. I really hope the come out with a 21 inch front and 18 inch rear with 250mm of suspension travel.
I bought one with the tech pack not a big deal features are worth it.
Speaking as a 790adv 2023 owner, I knew from the beginning about the Demo mode. I have no problem with it, the same happens in cars: you pay extra money for cruise control or automatic shift. I bought separately the cruise control at the first service, don’t need the other options (quickshifter, rally mode)… but if needed, I will buy them in the future.
I really don’t understand why people are so obsessed with the demo mode, it actually gives you a trial period for something you may want to test before buying it. In my case, if the cruise control was not good enough, I would have never bought it.
I want the 'Don't break down' pack 🤨