I can identify with everything you said. I put up with this from my ex-wife because for religious reasons I could not divorce. Thanks to advice like this I completely stopped engaging in the circular arguments. I went so far as to have her agree what we were discussing and writing it on a piece of paper. When she would not stay on the subject we agreed to I would stop talking. After a year of me refusing to argue she sued me for divorce and accused me of being a narcissist and "violent and abusive". Since I never was she could not produce any evidence. Thank you Dr. Tara for helping us understand what we endured.
They have no concept of accountability and responsibility. I am in “no contact” mode. I watch your vids to curtain any thoughts of taking my ex BPD LTR off block in all forms of communication. Thank you.
I used to call it "Stacking" my borderline ex when in an argument, we would start with the initial problem and then she would stack [quickly] more issues to deflect everything. Thank you Dr. T!
"Brain condom". Ha! Love it! My narc sister is "spiritual" so every time I tried to discuss how we were both damaged by our narc father, it "stacks" into an argument about how "unforgiving" and "unspiritual" I am. Definite mind f*. Condom please :)
I call it recreational combat. To me it was mostly to assert dominance. They win if you engage them. Even if you "win" the argument, it enrages them, so you still lose. This is bang on! Walking away is not merely the "power move." It is the only move. "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." George Bernard Shaw
I’ve watched hundreds of hours of videos on narcissism, but these videos are the most sobering assessment of covert malignant narcissism that I’ve ever watched. I called the “circular arguments “, at the time, insane unresolvable loops that left my head spinning. This was before I knew I was with a malignant narcissist, which didn’t come until after the divorce/discard and Hoover of a 10 year marriage. I realize now that I was trying to reason with someone who was never wrong- an impossible task. Please keep these videos coming- I’m trying to catch up having just found your channel. Oh, and by the way, the only way out of the madness is going no contact.
I found this 3-year-old post Jerry. With your new information or education I'm curious how life is going now? I've been no contact for 2 years and I'm not where I wish I was in my recovery.
I wish I had seen your videos while I was with my borderline ex. But I finally broke it off with her, and am in a much better place now (sometimes I kick myself for not getting out sooner). But your videos & articles really help explain what I went through. Thanks!
OMG, preventing another meltdown became a full-time job! That's all I did. I would constantly be baited too. Playful teasing back and fourth would suddenly become horribly offensive, or you get a text where you know there's no right answer and no answer or an untimely answer is wrong too. I could see her winding up sometimes and it was like "Ruh-Roh, here we go again". Conversely, if you take a stand and choose to not engage, you get fake dumped again. You can't win with these people.
Dr Tara. You are a crackerjack! I love your videos. Narcissists have been with us since the beginning of time. Even mentioned in the Bible. But now we have a label for them. Narcissism. I was married to one for 20 years; but living together almost 16. I married due to pregnancy and had to depend on him for finances. I didnt love him after I saw through him. I think my eventual hatred of him protected me from some of his “games”. There were 7 children and he never lifted a finger to help out. Dumping on me was his abuse. Im happy now and go on these videos to give myself a pat on the back. Keep ‘em coming.
yes i was arguing my case for over a year because my friend called me for a ride and gave my number to her own man for that same ride i had nothing to do with none of it so he blamed the friends man and me for it and till this day a year later we still argue over it. he was there the whole entire time this all happened...i caught on to narc info on youtube then seen it was everything he done and still do i left him a month ago he trying to contact me leave his number i never called him back....i made him go home for all the hollidays because it all started on last year new years eve and i did not want him messing up nomore hollidays he came on christmas and it was the worst day of my life i argued the whole day defending myself over the same stuff im so tire of him i wish he just stay far away from me.....i had 2 weeks of peace when he was lovebombing me that was it when we first met it been hell every sense.
Or you end up arguing about something that's not even clear. I look back on some arguments (still in this relationship) and cant make heads or tails on what the issue is.
I am so glad you posted this video. I have two older sisters that are borderline. My Mother was an emotional abuser. Narcissistic. My older sisters are very manipulative and always blame me for everything or use me to make themselves look better. I went no contact after decades of crap. Not doing it any more.
What was most puzzling to me is how such narcissists can be highly successful in a career where they have to apply analytical reasoning and people skills, but have no ability whatsoever to do so in romantic relationships. Took me a while to wrap my head around the inconsistency.
When I finally stopped arguing and jadeing, my ex filed for divorce. I went to three divorce hearings before the divorce was granted because my ex never showed up to any of them. When his abuse was no longer effective, I was no longer needed. I am thankful to be free and have been for 25 years. What I have learned about myself in these years has been invaluable. I am still uncovering myself. I will never again waste my time on an abuser.
So important to recognize what you are dealing with when the urge to JADE comes up. Loved the analogies of the petulant child and the grassy knoll shooter accusation.
I dated a bpd woman for over 5 years. Since I got rid of her, she continues to cause problems. I look at it like this: Dealing with narcs and bpd's is similar to playing a game of "Global Thermonuclear War" between Matthew Broderick and "Joshua", the W.O.P.R. computer in the 1981 movie "War Games"... The only way to win, is not to play the game at all....
Awesome Dr!!! This is exactly what happened to me last night during a phone call from exNarc that turned quickly into an argument with exNarc... he brung up a past event and started raging at me because I called the police on him during our relationship when he kicked in my front door in a rage and was trying to get to me because he wanted me to give him a spare key to his car that I co-signed for and I refused to give him the extra spare key until he refinance the vehicle out of my name after he moved out to chase new supply without notice. In his mind it was my fault he kicked the door in and for his rage. He raged again during the call because during the relationship He wanted me to deposit my entire paychecks into a joint account, i work 2job as a nurse, I deposited 4K per month and he deposited 2400 or more if he felt like it but he wanted access to all my hard earned money and therefore he said I was a liar and a thief all while yelling at me cussing me out during the call, I am emotionally detached from him now and remained calm but I found myself apologizing and doing the JADE thing you mentioned but that only made him rage at me more! Going No Contact and keeping this man out my life is the only option. I’m so happy that this mania is no longer my experience I’m so done with this nonsense. Thank you ❤️so much for this video it’s so confirming and true, it really helped make sense of something so confusing to me. Can’t Thank You enough!
That was painful to listen to. Memories 😕. Thank you so much, These understandings are essential for healing. I will be listening to these until they are fully in. Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you do much Dr. P. That was a masterful analysis of that insanity. So very helpful to me tonight as I was missing my ex. As you went through all your points I remembered very clearly the utter craziness of it all. Ain't never going there again! Big love 😁
For anyone browsing the comments who is just starting this video - do watch the whole thing. Dr. Tara speaks at our (non-psych) human level about abuse that is often very confusing & hard to explain. I first viewed this video about a year ago & have both revisited it myself about once monthly, but also shared it with *many* friends. Once you know what these behavioral patterns are, you will start to see them in abusive relationships with personality disordered individuals. Instead of being emotionally blackmailed, you can understand the losing battle & choose how you deal with people described here. You will be empowered to choose your fate. Being guided on how to look at your situation from a very intelligent outside perspective is so helpful. Whenever I need a kick in the butt because a person who initially comes off as wondetful, I go back to this & several other Dr. Tara videos to keep my expectations in check. Not having parents makes sources like Dr. Tara incredibly valuable. ♡
Thank you so much for this video. Strangely enough today is the anniversary of my saying no to the circular argument. I didn't know what was happening back then and I (like most) have been on a weird journey of discovery since. But back then, when I was physically sick with anxiety of another fight looming.. I didn't jump to Jade, I had no energy left to try a new way to make him understand, I didn't apologise even though I was the one in turmoil... I just asked for some space. This was not an acceptable request apparently because I was given an ultimatum. "tell me what Im not doing right, how I can be better... Or f*#& off". I chose the later because I've been down the other path too many times. But that ultimatum has haunted me because in many support videos it seems like I was the abuser. After all, I didn't take the time to talk it through. I didn't listen to how he felt. I was not emotionally invested in the conversation. But I knew that this was his way of the starting up that cycle. And up until just now, watching this video, I have always had a niggling doubt that I was wrong to have not given him something..even though I knew it would have been at least 4 hours of brain hurting craziness that I would argue at. That I would become the person I hate being... Screaming at him 'how can you think that about me?' only for him to gaslight and say 'I don't think that about you... But you are admitting that you could arn't you?' that is would keep going until exhausted, emotionally bruised, sobbing and shaking I would be so confused and so eager to have it stop that I would apologise repeatedly until he stopped, knowing that by this stage my apologies would not be enough for him. One year on and I KNOW this was how it was but I had never found a video that could put it into words. Thank you so much for doing that so clearly and without judgement at how we become the crazy ones in this process. Helen
Awesome video. That list of questions is priceless. The energy lost jading oneself is incalculable. Also, good point on #7 about replaying our childhood issues as codependents if one was unfortunate enough to be raised by a narcissist. The damage there is also immeasurable. Thank you for your insights.
Oh my gosh! All I could do was sit and nod my head to what you said. You used exact words and phrases that he uses on me! I never have had conflict like this in a marriage. We both have been married several times and I NEVER have had a relationship like this one. Strife and conflict constantly. I am working on myself now and told him to move out. I am not doing this anymore for my health and emotional state of being. Thank you so much for the info. It is so true! God Bless You!!
Namaste!! I could have used your help about 45 years ago. I grew up with a narcissistic mother, brother and sister-in-law. I married a narcissistic man who turned out to be gay. He felt he had a right to be married and have male lovers in our home. I worked in academia with an associate who became a lawyer and my best friend. Now he's been stalking me for 3 1/2 years. I divorced my husband who insisted that I cheated on him despite his affair with a woman. I went to counseling but received no help b/c as a woman of color I was considered the perverted one. My ex husband's charisma cleared him of any wrong by two white male psychologists. What I have learned I did on my own with no help whatsoever. I am still struggling, but with new spiritual strength I am pulling thru the morass. I am pleased however to see your messages about narcissism. It confirms everything I have experienced.
These videos saved me from substance abuse and depression A little bit at a time I now understand my entire life All the parisitic predatory women And why it started with the abusive level of emotional and physical neglect from my mother
Jean Daugherty, In my therapy, I found that by marrying this abusive man, I was trying to fix the abuse from my mother. That discovery really clarified my actions and I began a search into myself which continues to this day.
Hey Buzzing 🐝 get out and I can promise you that your life will be OK. Currently, you are in Hell, yes? So, it can ONLY get better, right? The journey is really hard but my God it's worth it. You get you life back, and with that, your joy. I wish you lightness and love.
I wish I would have had this info in the tornado....thankfully I am no longer married to the Narc.in the end I got my power back.....to the point I told my ex narc...."go ahead...make my day!"
This is just SO excellent; extremely well articulated. Thank you and looking forward to more of your impactful and educational videos! I’ve lived this nightmare and am in midst of trying to get out now and hearing this tonite was just SO very validating as it’s exactly what I’ve been going through w this individual who is not only a narcissist but has several sociopathic/psychopathic traits.
"There will always be another go-time" so true. I refused to see this during many conflicts (for the sake of conflict) until I just didn't want to be around when the next go-time would come along. Yet another eye-opening video from Dr Palmattier.
11:30. I SOOOO hear you. Great vid. P.S., sarcasm much appreciated. In fact, I would love it if you did a whole 'nuther vid from sarcasm. Reason being, that narc survivors have to move on which means that so many war stories never get told. We have to let so much go. BUT, if a therapist describes the "genius" behavior (sarcasm warning here) of the narc, it just feels so nice. It's a little satifaction in an otherwise bleak situation. A guilty pleasure, if you will. Best wishes
Thank you Dr. I recently ended a 4 year relationship with a narcasist. It was painful and full of drama. I was dealing with her guy "freinds" who were emotionally abusing her..of which she then abused me. Im finally free..career is on track..starting a business which took years to develop and is growing. Finally realized her toxic was unhealthy.. im free! Thank you .keep up the message and video's. You are helping many.
Wow!! She hit this right on the head. It's why I divorced my wive last year after 36 years of hell. My ex is a pathological narcissist. She has many other issues. She wanted full control of my life. She spent all my money and chased away everything I loved. When I sent her to get help, she stopped. I think the reality hit her in the face. This is so right on.
Dr. Tara, I have just watched two of your videos. Your words have given me so much encouragement and a sense of increased strength in my capacity to find my way back to health following many years of narcissistic abuse from a sibling. I intend to watch these videos regularly to remind me to look after myself. I recently awoke to the danger that I faced with this sibling, the danger to my survival. That sense of danger was tangible in my body as I watched your video on 7 ways a relationship with the narcissist or borderline ends. I am so grateful that you have posted these videos.
This was incredibly helpful. I was in a relationship with someone that has BPD, and she just couldn't stop arguing. We made up the other day, and I took her to this fancy steakhouse Joe Rogan goes to. I thought we were good then, and had made up, but the next day she texted/called and wanted to resume arguing. Its just too much. Tried to get her to see someone, but she refuses. She literally just wants to argue nonstop for days until she's in a good mood again. I can't do it though, going to try and find someone thats not miserable.
I constantly get "if you wouldn't have done that I wouldn't have____. Insert whatever. It's always my fault. Apparently. I am trying to get healthy and quietly trying to find an attorney.
Love this video. I’m actively out dating women at the moment after 14 wasted months with a borderline. What’s scary is that this type of person is a LOT more common than I originally understood. Because of my wasted 14 months I’m no longer willing to JADE ... I now see how much time can be wasted easily... expecting someone to “get it” when they never will. In 4 months I’ve met 5 petulant, abusive, irrational harpies. As soon as I find myself explaining and calming I realise & run. I’m back with a therapist trying to scrub “co-dependent “ off my forehead.
The hardest part for me is knowing that my narc sister is damaged and knowing I can never heal her. Instead, I just had to leave her to save myself. Now, I have guilt and grief at the same time.
neptunesdreams I feel the same about my brother. It's the one thing that will keep me separated from my parents forever I feel. They've taken even my young brother from my life through abuse. And they know it, and they enjoy how it hurts me. They've seen me cry about my brother, so now they know it's a good way to hurt me. They'll surely turn him against me more. This I'll never forgive them for, as far as I can see. But it's time to put yourself, and me myself, first, that's where it is at.
@@antiochiaadtaurum3786 I'm right there with you!! My father was an alcoholic and also sick with M.S. but never ever mistreated me, my stepmother was and is a full on narcissist...It was always about HER. Look how I take care of your father etc etc. Anyway, my point.. I had a half brother born when I was almost 16...and I left home a year later so we never really bonded (he's my only sibling). When my father passed away in '99 that was the last time I saw my brother. I found him online through an attorney website (because he is now an attorney) and I reached out to him after MY mother passed because he is the only immediate family I have left. He said he was preparing for a trial and would be in touch...never heard from him and I'm POSITIVE that's his mother's doing. She even went so far as to tell a cousin that she had my father buried 8ft deep (he was cremated and wanted his ashes spread over by where I live) so that I could never dig him up. I just had to cut ties with the whole thing!!
Perfectly Norma. My advice is to ditch the guilt and go through the grief. Cry until you have no more tears. Then wash your face and move on. I will always feel sadness, compassion and love for my ex, but I will never talk to her again. It’s a hell of a thing to come to grips with. Stay strong. Life gets beautiful again.
You're spot on, I lived 38 year's with a narcissist, who knew till he got all he could, and left, I wasn't playing the game anymore, I feel free, although guilt for wasting 38 year's and allowing it, no more JADE. It's my fault for everything 🤣 Great wisdom. Hard when it your kid's, or husband, I tried, it didn't change a thing but kept me crazy. Sad when the only place I felt safe, was at my job, when my Worth was acknowledged as good!!! Walking on eggshells stinks. I so wish we were done, he hasn't paid me for the final divorce decree obligations, I need a lawyer to go get it just doesn't sit right, but I need to. I was taken of everything I own and my health, living my own life would be nice.
You and like a few other professionals on here actually explain realistically and tactfully about these issues. You're an actual knowledgeable advocate and I can't thank you enough!
Astounding! I keep coming back and listening and understanding. Dr. T., Thank you I am not alone in my observations and interpretations. Thank you for helping me understand. I am obliged.
Yes!!!! Yes! Yes! Thank you for this! I figured this out myself & it gave my my sanity back but it’s so tiring because they start to attack you for asking questions. I’m now not allowed to ask reasonable rational questions without being accused of “arguing” as though I’m fighting but the fact is they’re irrational & start fighting me & it gets tiring playing cool as they scream. One starts & then they all start. It goes nowhere. I started stipulating that if they want to talk to me that they must agree to act like an adult with me & then they attack me for calling them a child & start acting childish. I then have to state that I only asked them to agree to be an adult with me but they’re demonstrating that they can’t & so I get no where. Because they know now to act like a child and they win. I’ve given up. I can’t deal with them anymore. It’s so pointless
Especially the last few minutes, this describes almost point for point exactly what I'm going through right now. I know what needs to be done, it's just about actually doing it. Thank you Dr. Tara.
Awesome video. Thank you so much for making this material available for the people who need it. Keep up the good work Dr. Tara. I am watching from Kenya.
Our main argument is she calls me lazy. I reply with logic “I have two jobs” and work 60 plus a week. She says “I work too”. I say, “yeah, but I never called you lazy”. She now ignores my existence. Last time she spoke to me was to yell at me that the shower curtain wasn’t pulled all the way back. “Why is it every time you take a shower the shower curtain is never pulled back”. I say “that’s not true” (which it isn’t true. Maybe twice a year I forget to pull it all the way back). My existence bothers her. She’s extremely phoney because yesterday she was talking to a guy and laughing at stupid shit. Meanwhile, I’m in the house and she’s very passive aggressive. I had to leave the house because I have no peace. Then I came back and spent time with my daughter as my wife is talking still to this guy. She uses men as psychotherapy. These guys have no clue how she really is.
Only with my ex... Have I ever been in a argument with someone for so long, with such little sense, such confusion, and almost a migraine before going to bed, and in some twisted way almost feeling guilty about the entire event. I knew something was wrong but I was too weak to identify it. The nights I spent confused with some guilt. 9 years with her and I am still recovering. Figuring out how to heal and asking myself when will I feel normal?
Incredibly intellectual advice. Time to start listening and perish the thought that there is a possibility of resolution without Devine intervention. Thank you.
I backed away over a period of one year. Having time and space to myself again felt wonderful. I finally got perspective by getting out of the bubble. Towards the end, whenever I knew she was coming over I got this sick feeling in my stomach because I knew how the evening would go. I should have left sooner, but I kept hoping she’d change and I remembered the good times. Out now with no contact. She’s moved on, which is a tremendous relief. I can breathe again.
Thank you for your teachings! You are a gift 💝 🙏 thank you! I love how you empower the empath by putting things into perspective in such a clear and humorous manner. Blessings
Mine just simply starts talking nasty about my parents, family at the drop of a hat. I am alienated from my family. I am with her only for my child, who I’ve seen being equally mishandled. For me it’s best to distance and focus on work and at least provide for finances and security for my child.
I am quarantined in with the narc. Gaslighting...constantly, and I had forgotten. He has been working far. He used to do this for 10 years, but I forgot on purpose. My 2 older daughters have moved away. He would always put them in the middle. I have been watching your videos. I observed and saw he was drinking, and upon closer observation...cheating, too. I am feeling a whole new level of pain. My 11 year old has been thriving after growing up with this BS, thriving since he has been working away. Now that he is back...he is trying to involve her in our conflict. There was no need for the conflict he created upon his arrival. I have never seen such a skilled manipulator. I told him I want a divorce, but I really don't. I don't want her to go through what I went through. I was always in the middle of 2 narcs, whose divorce went to the Supreme Court! Being around my Dad and his girlfriend who destroyed my family every weekend and the last week of every night was a new level of torture. When I told my dad I would not go to court and testify against my Mom, he kicked me out. I was then beat, severely, daily, by an insane, abusive boyfriend for the next 20 years...
had to watch it over 4 times in a row as it refflected my 5 year long relationship with an immature person who end up hurting my mind really bad and i end up confused if i was the bad guy or the insane one. Thank you so much, it helped me feel less guilty about how it was
Thank you. I dated a borderline. I think i'm codependent. I was out of my way trying to make him leave alcohol, go to the psiquiatrist for his depression, and It end Up Many times with me defending myself of accusations of i may slay his neck while he sleep, or he attempt to suicide and blame me of bringing men to the House, and felt still bad for fight back at a sick Guy. IS hard not to feel quilty.
We are divorcing, he says I’m 100% responsible for the divorce, that I abused him, he is the victim, I “ brought the house down” I ruined his life! Your video was great ! I’ve naturally slowed down the JADE with him and will continue to work on it.
One more comment. Your accuracy and your choice of examples is of extraordinary help and importance. After thirty plus years of a borderline/narcissist marriage it is of great value to see why one stays married. Any cPTSD therapy gave me nothing as much as ShrinkforMen. Thanks!
Oh my goodness Dr. T this video is exactly what I have been going through with my Boyfriend who I have been together with for 2 years & almost 3 months. It all started with him checking my emails, Facebook, Messenger, & text messages, phone calls etc just to see if I was Cheating or talking to any of my friends he didn't like. Plus since day one he has done nothing but accuse me & call me a Liar & a Cheater. Wow thank you so much for explaining everything in such good detail too.
Hope he's not still your boyfriend. That type of behavior typically gets worse, not better. To any men reading this -- it's just as bad if your girlfriends and wives are behaving like Victoria's boyfriend.
Yes, sad to say he is still my Boyfriend. I don't understand why its so Hard to let him go?? :( Dr. T, although I did get away & move here to California, While he still lives in Oregon but we talk on the phone & yes it has gotten worse & he hasn't even moved here yet to prove he can & Will treat me better. So why is it so Hard for me to let him go & for him to let me go?
Why can I only give you one upvote? I want to MASH that upvote button giving you 1000x!! Thank you for describing so eloquently exactly what I wanted to express and hear and finally really deeply understand. THANK YOU!
Excellent, thanks so much for being a voice for us guys, because it's very hard as man to talk about the abuse of men and be respected for it, it's considered to be just more abuse to women to merely state the facts.
Another 100% accurate video. She said she’s “gone” for good this time. Hope so! Less tension headaches & sleepless nights without her circular arguments me blame game.
Talk talk and talk a bit more... dont bottle it up, let it out and dont carry this with you and ruin your future., shes won again if you do. Its not you who has the problem., i wish you every happiness for the future.
I have developed Multiple Sclerosis. I believe it's absolutely because of the fight-flight- freeze I suffered at the hands of my borderline abuser. Is this even possible? I was perfectly healthy. There is no family history of anything like this 😔 I feel, deep down, that my illness is directly linked to this toxic relationship. However I don't want to blame without cause. I'm very ill.
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11:15 "The narc wants victim to feel guilty about no longer wanting to put up with their abuse.". In other words, what they have inside is guilt (or some other negative emotions) and they want the other person to have them?
Yes, but as empathetic people, we see the narc as damaged, and so we feel guilt for leaving a damaged person. Our natural inclination is to stay and try to help heal them. We can't, of course. We must leave to save ourselves. But the guilt seems inevitable when we leave. I think the key is to practice boundaries between ourselves and others. Their healing is up to them, not us.
I remember conversations from hell where you a valid point and you know what your talking about and the abuser keeps changing the subject and if they see that wont work my ex would throw a verbally abusive word and you start trying to defend yourself and you wake up the next day exhausted and your head is spinning.and you never win arguments becuase arguments never get resolved plus gaslighting and word salad etc
To. A. T! Wow... she made me think I was the crazy one, the narcissist who invalidated her emotions, accused me of cheating even though she cheated, and was 100% the bad guy. However, you forgot the part where she flips out when I walk away and says, "there you go always running away from your problems"
Thanks, I lived and living ,the aftermath of a 7 year relationship. 2007 July I ran away from her to get away. I still don’t think I am “not over it yet”. Total cluster b gal with multiple personalities. Add booze and meth it’s a total roller coaster! Thanks I am educated now , you are a bastion of knowledge.
That's a punch to the gut. You may look back on this eventually as the best thing to happen to you. That's how I look at the mullet-haired, bucktoothed, bisexual former child actress (same age) that my ex cheated on me with. In fact, I probably should send her a mini muffin basket.
Shrink4Men - Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD You are the best its nice to laugh for once in all this pain. She's still being love bombed. She knew about me and didn't care at all otherwise I'd feel sorry for her. When I met him He was single for well over a year. I could never do that to someone. She had no problem with it.
"Ultimately, you win by not fighting- by choosing to live a happier and healthier life, far, far away from the narcissist."
Yes.
Every now and then you also get to hear about how the narc has caused some other drama in their life......On those days, it's also worth smiling.
Just walk away, Rene.
I agree but how do you coparent with the jerk?
I can identify with everything you said. I put up with this from my ex-wife because for religious reasons I could not divorce. Thanks to advice like this I completely stopped engaging in the circular arguments. I went so far as to have her agree what we were discussing and writing it on a piece of paper. When she would not stay on the subject we agreed to I would stop talking. After a year of me refusing to argue she sued me for divorce and accused me of being a narcissist and "violent and abusive". Since I never was she could not produce any evidence.
Thank you Dr. Tara for helping us understand what we endured.
They have no concept of accountability and responsibility. I am in “no contact” mode.
I watch your vids to curtain any thoughts of taking my ex BPD LTR off block in all forms of communication. Thank you.
I used to call it "Stacking" my borderline ex when in an argument, we would start with the initial problem and then she would stack [quickly] more issues to deflect everything. Thank you Dr. T!
I've also heard it referred to as kitchen sinking. As in throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at the wall.
@@shrink4men Exactly! We went from this to now the house is burning down in 60 seconds. Such a mind fuck.
Brain condom, anyone? ;)
"Brain condom". Ha! Love it! My narc sister is "spiritual" so every time I tried to discuss how we were both damaged by our narc father, it "stacks" into an argument about how "unforgiving" and "unspiritual" I am. Definite mind f*. Condom please :)
@@shrink4men LMFAO!!!
I call it recreational combat. To me it was mostly to assert dominance. They win if you engage them. Even if you "win" the argument, it enrages them, so you still lose. This is bang on!
Walking away is not merely the "power move." It is the only move.
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it." George Bernard Shaw
And as you walk away they say, "You're running away from the problem." To which I think, "Yes, and quickly!"
@@BarbarossaSC2 i've been told exactly the same. it's crazy
@mattpunx not running from the problem, I'm becoming aligned with healthy living
I’ve watched hundreds of hours of videos on narcissism, but these videos are the most sobering assessment of covert malignant narcissism that I’ve ever watched. I called the “circular arguments “, at the time, insane unresolvable loops that left my head spinning. This was before I knew I was with a malignant narcissist, which didn’t come until after the divorce/discard and Hoover of a 10 year marriage. I realize now that I was trying to reason with someone who was never wrong- an impossible task. Please keep these videos coming- I’m trying to catch up having just found your channel. Oh, and by the way, the only way out of the madness is going no contact.
I found this 3-year-old post Jerry. With your new information or education I'm curious how life is going now? I've been no contact for 2 years and I'm not where I wish I was in my recovery.
I wish I had seen your videos while I was with my borderline ex. But I finally broke it off with her, and am in a much better place now (sometimes I kick myself for not getting out sooner). But your videos & articles really help explain what I went through. Thanks!
I'm glad you find them helpful. Thank you for saying so.
OMG, preventing another meltdown became a full-time job! That's all I did. I would constantly be baited too. Playful teasing back and fourth would suddenly become horribly offensive, or you get a text where you know there's no right answer and no answer or an untimely answer is wrong too. I could see her winding up sometimes and it was like "Ruh-Roh, here we go again". Conversely, if you take a stand and choose to not engage, you get fake dumped again. You can't win with these people.
Dr Tara. You are a crackerjack! I love your videos. Narcissists have been with us since the beginning of time. Even mentioned in the Bible. But now we have a label for them. Narcissism. I was married to one for 20 years; but living together almost 16. I married due to pregnancy and had to depend on him for finances. I didnt love him after I saw through him. I think my eventual hatred of him protected me from some of his “games”. There were 7 children and he never lifted a finger to help out. Dumping on me was his abuse. Im happy now and go on these videos to give myself a pat on the back. Keep ‘em coming.
They change their story or lies from day to day is another way it's circular.
You find yourself arguing about the same exact things over and over
The only way to win is not to play (War Games).
Yes! I had this experience recently... Within a few days, the reason they originally got mad at me changed three times. It's really insane.
yes i was arguing my case for over a year because my friend called me for a ride and gave my number to her own man for that same ride i had nothing to do with none of it so he blamed the friends man and me for it and till this day a year later we still argue over it. he was there the whole entire time this all happened...i caught on to narc info on youtube then seen it was everything he done and still do i left him a month ago he trying to contact me leave his number i never called him back....i made him go home for all the hollidays because it all started on last year new years eve and i did not want him messing up nomore hollidays he came on christmas and it was the worst day of my life i argued the whole day defending myself over the same stuff im so tire of him i wish he just stay far away from me.....i had 2 weeks of peace when he was lovebombing me that was it when we first met it been hell every sense.
Or you end up arguing about something that's not even clear. I look back on some arguments (still in this relationship) and cant make heads or tails on what the issue is.
I am so glad you posted this video. I have two older sisters that are borderline. My Mother was an emotional abuser. Narcissistic. My older sisters are very manipulative and always blame me for everything or use me to make themselves look better. I went no contact after decades of crap. Not doing it any more.
What was most puzzling to me is how such narcissists can be highly successful in a career where they have to apply analytical reasoning and people skills, but have no ability whatsoever to do so in romantic relationships. Took me a while to wrap my head around the inconsistency.
When I finally stopped arguing and jadeing, my ex filed for divorce. I went to three divorce hearings before the divorce was granted because my ex never showed up to any of them. When his abuse was no longer effective, I was no longer needed. I am thankful to be free and have been for 25 years. What I have learned about myself in these years has been invaluable. I am still uncovering myself. I will never again waste my time on an abuser.
So important to recognize what you are dealing with when the urge to JADE comes up. Loved the analogies of the petulant child and the grassy knoll shooter accusation.
Thanks!
I dated a bpd woman for over 5 years. Since I got rid of her, she continues to cause problems.
I look at it like this:
Dealing with narcs and bpd's is similar to playing a game of "Global Thermonuclear War" between Matthew Broderick and "Joshua", the W.O.P.R. computer in the 1981 movie "War Games"...
The only way to win, is not to play the game at all....
Awesome Dr!!! This is exactly what happened to me last night during a phone call from exNarc that turned quickly into an argument with exNarc... he brung up a past event and started raging at me because I called the police on him during our relationship when he kicked in my front door in a rage and was trying to get to me because he wanted me to give him a spare key to his car that I co-signed for and I refused to give him the extra spare key until he refinance the vehicle out of my name after he moved out to chase new supply without notice. In his mind it was my fault he kicked the door in and for his rage. He raged again during the call because during the relationship He wanted me to deposit my entire paychecks into a joint account, i work 2job as a nurse, I deposited 4K per month and he deposited 2400 or more if he felt like it but he wanted access to all my hard earned money and therefore he said I was a liar and a thief all while yelling at me cussing me out during the call, I am emotionally detached from him now and remained calm but I found myself apologizing and doing the JADE thing you mentioned but that only made him rage at me more! Going No Contact and keeping this man out my life is the only option. I’m so happy that this mania is no longer my experience I’m so done with this nonsense. Thank you ❤️so much for this video it’s so confirming and true, it really helped make sense of something so confusing to me. Can’t Thank You enough!
I can't stop commenting I love her. She helps so much especially when in denial because the brain can't handle this reality
Glad the video helps. I'm sorry you're having such a painful time of it.
LOADED with good information, truth and fabulously valuable advice! Thanks so much!
You're welcome. I hope you'll subscribe and share!
That was painful to listen to. Memories 😕. Thank you so much, These understandings are essential for healing. I will be listening to these until they are fully in. Thank you 🙏🏻
This vid needs a love button. So accurate.
Thank you do much Dr. P.
That was a masterful analysis of that insanity. So very helpful to me tonight as I was missing my ex. As you went through all your points I remembered very clearly the utter craziness of it all. Ain't never going there again! Big love 😁
You're welcome. Glad you find the information helpful.
WOW! You're doing video again! YES
Trying to. Thanks for watching!
You explain clearly the roller coaster insanity of being wit a Narc in a so called "relationship".
For anyone browsing the comments who is just starting this video - do watch the whole thing. Dr. Tara speaks at our (non-psych) human level about abuse that is often very confusing & hard to explain. I first viewed this video about a year ago & have both revisited it myself about once monthly, but also shared it with *many* friends. Once you know what these behavioral patterns are, you will start to see them in abusive relationships with personality disordered individuals. Instead of being emotionally blackmailed, you can understand the losing battle & choose how you deal with people described here. You will be empowered to choose your fate. Being guided on how to look at your situation from a very intelligent outside perspective is so helpful.
Whenever I need a kick in the butt because a person who initially comes off as wondetful, I go back to this & several other Dr. Tara videos to keep my expectations in check. Not having parents makes sources like Dr. Tara incredibly valuable. ♡
Thank you so much for this video. Strangely enough today is the anniversary of my saying no to the circular argument. I didn't know what was happening back then and I (like most) have been on a weird journey of discovery since. But back then, when I was physically sick with anxiety of another fight looming.. I didn't jump to Jade, I had no energy left to try a new way to make him understand, I didn't apologise even though I was the one in turmoil... I just asked for some space. This was not an acceptable request apparently because I was given an ultimatum. "tell me what Im not doing right, how I can be better... Or f*#& off".
I chose the later because I've been down the other path too many times.
But that ultimatum has haunted me because in many support videos it seems like I was the abuser.
After all, I didn't take the time to talk it through. I didn't listen to how he felt. I was not emotionally invested in the conversation.
But I knew that this was his way of the starting up that cycle. And up until just now, watching this video, I have always had a niggling doubt that I was wrong to have not given him something..even though I knew it would have been at least 4 hours of brain hurting craziness that I would argue at. That I would become the person I hate being... Screaming at him 'how can you think that about me?' only for him
to gaslight and say 'I don't think that about you... But you are admitting that you could arn't you?' that is would keep going until exhausted, emotionally bruised, sobbing and shaking I would be so confused and so eager to have it stop that I would apologise repeatedly until he stopped, knowing that by this stage my apologies would not be enough for him.
One year on and I KNOW this was how it was but I had never found a video that could put it into words. Thank you so much for doing that so clearly and without judgement at how we become the crazy ones in this process. Helen
Awesome video. That list of questions is priceless. The energy lost jading oneself is incalculable. Also, good point on #7 about replaying our childhood issues as codependents if one was unfortunate enough to be raised by a narcissist. The damage there is also immeasurable. Thank you for your insights.
Oh my gosh! All I could do was sit and nod my head to what you said. You used exact words and phrases that he uses on me! I never have had conflict like this in a marriage. We both have been married several times and I NEVER have had a relationship like this one. Strife and conflict constantly. I am working on myself now and told him to move out. I am not doing this anymore for my health and emotional state of being. Thank you so much for the info. It is so true! God Bless You!!
Namaste!! I could have used your help about 45 years ago. I grew up with a narcissistic mother, brother and sister-in-law. I married a narcissistic man who turned out to be gay. He felt he had a right to be married and have male lovers in our home. I worked in academia with an associate who became a lawyer and my best friend. Now he's been stalking me for 3 1/2 years. I divorced my husband who insisted that I cheated on him despite his affair with a woman. I went to counseling but received no help b/c as a woman of color I was considered the perverted one. My ex husband's charisma cleared him of any wrong by two white male psychologists. What I have learned I did on my own with no help whatsoever. I am still struggling, but with new spiritual strength I am pulling thru the morass. I am pleased however to see your messages about narcissism. It confirms everything I have experienced.
This is so spot on it is scary. Well done.
I wish I would have seen this a long time ago.
That how it feels, like your head is spinning.
This was so centering and needful. Thank you!
These videos saved me from substance abuse and depression
A little bit at a time
I now understand my entire life
All the parisitic predatory women
And why it started with the abusive level of emotional and physical neglect from my mother
Jean Daugherty, In my therapy, I found that by marrying this abusive man, I was trying to fix the abuse from my mother. That discovery really clarified my actions and I began a search into myself which continues to this day.
Absolutely invaluable information during custody litigation. Thank you Dr Palmatier!
Thank you for your continued support, Anthony. I appreciate it!
@@shrink4men You're welcome! I am very fortunate that I found your website nearly 2 years ago. I wish I could repay the gratitude I owe you!!
Anthony Waldrep
How can u prove anything though? We trusted them when they are ones who set us up to look bad?
Out of all the videos you are the one that is helping me. I hope I can get out of this tangled mess. Hopefully the rest of my life will be ok
Hey Buzzing 🐝 get out and I can promise you that your life will be OK. Currently, you are in Hell, yes? So, it can ONLY get better, right? The journey is really hard but my God it's worth it. You get you life back, and with that, your joy. I wish you lightness and love.
I wish I would have had this info in the tornado....thankfully I am no longer married to the Narc.in the end I got my power back.....to the point I told my ex narc...."go ahead...make my day!"
This is just SO excellent; extremely well articulated. Thank you and looking forward to more of your impactful and educational videos! I’ve lived this nightmare and am in midst of trying to get out now and hearing this tonite was just SO very validating as it’s exactly what I’ve been going through w this individual who is not only a narcissist but has several sociopathic/psychopathic traits.
Do you share children with this person?
Absolutely not...thank God!
"There will always be another go-time" so true. I refused to see this during many conflicts (for the sake of conflict) until I just didn't want to be around when the next go-time would come along. Yet another eye-opening video from Dr Palmattier.
11:30. I SOOOO hear you. Great vid. P.S., sarcasm much appreciated. In fact, I would love it if you did a whole 'nuther vid from sarcasm. Reason being, that narc survivors have to move on which means that so many war stories never get told. We have to let so much go. BUT, if a therapist describes the "genius" behavior (sarcasm warning here) of the narc, it just feels so nice. It's a little satifaction in an otherwise bleak situation. A guilty pleasure, if you will.
Best wishes
Thank you Dr. I recently ended a 4 year relationship with a narcasist. It was painful and full of drama. I was dealing with her guy "freinds" who were emotionally abusing her..of which she then abused me. Im finally free..career is on track..starting a business which took years to develop and is growing. Finally realized her toxic was unhealthy.. im free! Thank you .keep up the message and video's. You are helping many.
You are good. So much wisdom, candor.... and humor. Thank you for putting forth such valuable, useful and relevant content. Andrew
You're most welcome and thank you for the kind comment, Andrew.
Love the way you present things. No nonsense, to the point. Works for me.
Wow!! She hit this right on the head. It's why I divorced my wive last year after 36 years of hell. My ex is a pathological narcissist. She has many other issues. She wanted full control of my life. She spent all my money and chased away everything I loved. When I sent her to get help, she stopped. I think the reality hit her in the face. This is so right on.
Dr. Tara, I have just watched two of your videos. Your words have given me so much encouragement and a sense of increased strength in my capacity to find my way back to health following many years of narcissistic abuse from a sibling. I intend to watch these videos regularly to remind me to look after myself. I recently awoke to the danger that I faced with this sibling, the danger to my survival. That sense of danger was tangible in my body as I watched your video on 7 ways a relationship with the narcissist or borderline ends. I am so grateful that you have posted these videos.
This was incredibly helpful. I was in a relationship with someone that has BPD, and she just couldn't stop arguing. We made up the other day, and I took her to this fancy steakhouse Joe Rogan goes to. I thought we were good then, and had made up, but the next day she texted/called and wanted to resume arguing. Its just too much. Tried to get her to see someone, but she refuses. She literally just wants to argue nonstop for days until she's in a good mood again. I can't do it though, going to try and find someone thats not miserable.
I constantly get "if you wouldn't have done that I wouldn't have____. Insert whatever. It's always my fault. Apparently. I am trying to get healthy and quietly trying to find an attorney.
I am learning so much more tonight as I watch your videos. You are Awesome Dr. T.
Thank you, Victoria. I'm glad you find them helpful.
Love this video. I’m actively out dating women at the moment after 14 wasted months with a borderline. What’s scary is that this type of person is a LOT more common than I originally understood. Because of my wasted 14 months I’m no longer willing to JADE ... I now see how much time can be wasted easily... expecting someone to “get it” when they never will. In 4 months I’ve met 5 petulant, abusive, irrational harpies. As soon as I find myself explaining and calming I realise & run. I’m back with a therapist trying to scrub “co-dependent “ off my forehead.
Powerful message! Thanks so much. God Bless you and your positive message.
You're welcome!
The hardest part for me is knowing that my narc sister is damaged and knowing I can never heal her. Instead, I just had to leave her to save myself. Now, I have guilt and grief at the same time.
neptunesdreams I feel the same about my brother. It's the one thing that will keep me separated from my parents forever I feel. They've taken even my young brother from my life through abuse. And they know it, and they enjoy how it hurts me. They've seen me cry about my brother, so now they know it's a good way to hurt me. They'll surely turn him against me more. This I'll never forgive them for, as far as I can see. But it's time to put yourself, and me myself, first, that's where it is at.
@@antiochiaadtaurum3786 I'm right there with you!! My father was an alcoholic and also sick with M.S. but never ever mistreated me, my stepmother was and is a full on narcissist...It was always about HER. Look how I take care of your father etc etc. Anyway, my point.. I had a half brother born when I was almost 16...and I left home a year later so we never really bonded (he's my only sibling). When my father passed away in '99 that was the last time I saw my brother. I found him online through an attorney website (because he is now an attorney) and I reached out to him after MY mother passed because he is the only immediate family I have left. He said he was preparing for a trial and would be in touch...never heard from him and I'm POSITIVE that's his mother's doing. She even went so far as to tell a cousin that she had my father buried 8ft deep (he was cremated and wanted his ashes spread over by where I live) so that I could never dig him up. I just had to cut ties with the whole thing!!
Perfectly Norma. My advice is to ditch the guilt and go through the grief. Cry until you have no more tears. Then wash your face and move on. I will always feel sadness, compassion and love for my ex, but I will never talk to her again. It’s a hell of a thing to come to grips with. Stay strong. Life gets beautiful again.
You're spot on, I lived 38 year's with a narcissist, who knew till he got all he could, and left, I wasn't playing the game anymore, I feel free, although guilt for wasting 38 year's and allowing it, no more JADE. It's my fault for everything 🤣 Great wisdom. Hard when it your kid's, or husband, I tried, it didn't change a thing but kept me crazy. Sad when the only place I felt safe, was at my job, when my Worth was acknowledged as good!!! Walking on eggshells stinks. I so wish we were done, he hasn't paid me for the final divorce decree obligations, I need a lawyer to go get it just doesn't sit right, but I need to. I was taken of everything I own and my health, living my own life would be nice.
Thank you Dr .Tara . Circular conversations have been a blind spot for me , This video has been profoundly important and helpful to me .
You and like a few other professionals on here actually explain realistically and tactfully about these issues. You're an actual knowledgeable advocate and I can't thank you enough!
I now just realized I've been dating narcissists my whole life and why I've been so happy being single these past 2 yrs. Complete peace
I got to the point that I would just let it go just to have peace and calm
Many victims do.
Thanks Tara, thank you so much. I am going to get off the crazy hamster wheel! :) x
Astounding!
I keep coming back and listening and understanding.
Dr. T., Thank you
I am not alone in my observations and interpretations.
Thank you for helping me understand.
I am obliged.
Yes!!!! Yes! Yes! Thank you for this! I figured this out myself & it gave my my sanity back but it’s so tiring because they start to attack you for asking questions. I’m now not allowed to ask reasonable rational questions without being accused of “arguing” as though I’m fighting but the fact is they’re irrational & start fighting me & it gets tiring playing cool as they scream. One starts & then they all start. It goes nowhere. I started stipulating that if they want to talk to me that they must agree to act like an adult with me & then they attack me for calling them a child & start acting childish. I then have to state that I only asked them to agree to be an adult with me but they’re demonstrating that they can’t & so I get no where. Because they know now to act like a child and they win. I’ve given up. I can’t deal with them anymore. It’s so pointless
it's been exactly the same to me. It's mind blowing
Especially the last few minutes, this describes almost point for point exactly what I'm going through right now. I know what needs to be done, it's just about actually doing it. Thank you Dr. Tara.
Awesome video. Thank you so much for making this material available for the people who need it. Keep up the good work Dr. Tara. I am watching from Kenya.
Great to have you back, Dr T!
I never left. I publish new articles monthly on www.shrink4men.com and the facebook page is weekly (facebook.com/Shrink4Men/). Thanks for watching!
Our main argument is she calls me lazy. I reply with logic “I have two jobs” and work 60 plus a week. She says “I work too”. I say, “yeah, but I never called you lazy”. She now ignores my existence. Last time she spoke to me was to yell at me that the shower curtain wasn’t pulled all the way back. “Why is it every time you take a shower the shower curtain is never pulled back”. I say “that’s not true” (which it isn’t true. Maybe twice a year I forget to pull it all the way back). My existence bothers her. She’s extremely phoney because yesterday she was talking to a guy and laughing at stupid shit. Meanwhile, I’m in the house and she’s very passive aggressive. I had to leave the house because I have no peace. Then I came back and spent time with my daughter as my wife is talking still to this guy. She uses men as psychotherapy. These guys have no clue how she really is.
OMG, how funny you make us, codependent look from aside. Thanks a lot Dr. Tara, very helpful for me
Only with my ex...
Have I ever been in a argument with someone for so long, with such little sense, such confusion, and almost a migraine before going to bed, and in some twisted way almost feeling guilty about the entire event. I knew something was wrong but I was too weak to identify it. The nights I spent confused with some guilt. 9 years with her and I am still recovering. Figuring out how to heal and asking myself when will I feel normal?
Incredibly intellectual advice. Time to start listening and perish the thought that there is a possibility of resolution without Devine intervention. Thank you.
Thanks, Dr. T. I have been wanting you to make more of these.
You're welcome. I've made a commitment to myself to record my entire library. Fingers crossed.
I backed away over a period of one year. Having time and space to myself again felt wonderful. I finally got perspective by getting out of the bubble. Towards the end, whenever I knew she was coming over I got this sick feeling in my stomach because I knew how the evening would go. I should have left sooner, but I kept hoping she’d change and I remembered the good times. Out now with no contact. She’s moved on, which is a tremendous relief. I can breathe again.
Thank you for your teachings! You are a gift 💝 🙏 thank you! I love how you empower the empath by putting things into perspective in such a clear and humorous manner. Blessings
Mine just simply starts talking nasty about my parents, family at the drop of a hat. I am alienated from my family. I am with her only for my child, who I’ve seen being equally mishandled. For me it’s best to distance and focus on work and at least provide for finances and security for my child.
"sometimes these people enjoy hurting you"
Yes. Yes, sometimes they do.
I am quarantined in with the narc. Gaslighting...constantly, and I had forgotten. He has been working far. He used to do this for 10 years, but I forgot on purpose. My 2 older daughters have moved away. He would always put them in the middle.
I have been watching your videos. I observed and saw he was drinking, and upon closer observation...cheating, too. I am feeling a whole new level of pain. My 11 year old has been thriving after growing up with this BS, thriving since he has been working away. Now that he is back...he is trying to involve her in our conflict. There was no need for the conflict he created upon his arrival. I have never seen such a skilled manipulator. I told him I want a divorce, but I really don't. I don't want her to go through what I went through. I was always in the middle of 2 narcs, whose divorce went to the Supreme Court! Being around my Dad and his girlfriend who destroyed my family every weekend and the last week of every night was a new level of torture. When I told my dad I would not go to court and testify against my Mom, he kicked me out. I was then beat, severely, daily, by an insane, abusive boyfriend for the next 20 years...
had to watch it over 4 times in a row as it refflected my 5 year long relationship with an immature person who end up hurting my mind really bad and i end up confused if i was the bad guy or the insane one.
Thank you so much, it helped me feel less guilty about how it was
Thank you. I dated a borderline. I think i'm codependent. I was out of my way trying to make him leave alcohol, go to the psiquiatrist for his depression, and It end Up Many times with me defending myself of accusations of i may slay his neck while he sleep, or he attempt to suicide and blame me of bringing men to the House, and felt still bad for fight back at a sick Guy. IS hard not to feel quilty.
We are divorcing, he says I’m 100% responsible for the divorce, that I abused him, he is the victim, I “ brought the house down” I ruined his life! Your video was great ! I’ve naturally slowed down the JADE with him and will continue to work on it.
One more comment. Your accuracy and your choice of examples is of extraordinary help and importance. After thirty plus years of a borderline/narcissist marriage it is of great value to see why one stays married. Any cPTSD therapy gave me nothing as much as ShrinkforMen. Thanks!
Oh my goodness Dr. T this video is exactly what I have been going through with my Boyfriend who I have been together with for 2 years & almost 3 months. It all started with him checking my emails, Facebook, Messenger, & text messages, phone calls etc just to see if I was Cheating or talking to any of my friends he didn't like. Plus since day one he has done nothing but accuse me & call me a Liar & a Cheater. Wow thank you so much for explaining everything in such good detail too.
Hope he's not still your boyfriend. That type of behavior typically gets worse, not better. To any men reading this -- it's just as bad if your girlfriends and wives are behaving like Victoria's boyfriend.
Yes, sad to say he is still my Boyfriend. I don't understand why its so Hard to let him go?? :( Dr. T, although I did get away & move here to California, While he still lives in Oregon but we talk on the phone & yes it has gotten worse & he hasn't even moved here yet to prove he can & Will treat me better. So why is it so Hard for me to let him go & for him to let me go?
Why can I only give you one upvote? I want to MASH that upvote button giving you 1000x!! Thank you for describing so eloquently exactly what I wanted to express and hear and finally really deeply understand. THANK YOU!
Excellent, thanks so much for being a voice for us guys,
because it's very hard as man to talk about the abuse of men and be respected for it,
it's considered to be just more abuse to women to merely state the facts.
Thank you, Dr. T! I needed to hear this today. Your knowledge and "no nonsense" explanation of BPD and NPD abusive behavior is appreciated.
Great to see you back on video.
That's kind of you and thanks for watching!
Another 100% accurate video. She said she’s “gone” for good this time. Hope so! Less tension headaches & sleepless nights without her circular arguments me blame game.
One of your most worthwhile videos. Thanks, I thinkI´ll watch it again
Thank you Dr. Tara, Kevin from _Homesteading off the grid_ channel brought me here and your message did also ring some bells in my head.
When you are a daughter of a narcissistic mother, the wounds scars are deep
Talk talk and talk a bit more... dont bottle it up, let it out and dont carry this with you and ruin your future., shes won again if you do. Its not you who has the problem., i wish you every happiness for the future.
One of your best, keep up the good work Dr P
This is the video I needed to watch hell yes 100% 😎
"Projection isn't just a room in the theater" HAHAHAHAH I love it
I have developed Multiple Sclerosis. I believe it's absolutely because of the fight-flight- freeze I suffered at the hands of my borderline abuser. Is this even possible? I was perfectly healthy. There is no family history of anything like this 😔 I feel, deep down, that my illness is directly linked to this toxic relationship. However I don't want to blame without cause. I'm very ill.
Thank you for your informative videos. Keep up the great work, including your sense of humor.
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I also get guilted into feeling bad when I set rules and boundaries for my body, family, and my home.
11:15 "The narc wants victim to feel guilty about no longer wanting to put up with their abuse.". In other words, what they have inside is guilt (or some other negative emotions) and they want the other person to have them?
Yes, but as empathetic people, we see the narc as damaged, and so we feel guilt for leaving a damaged person. Our natural inclination is to stay and try to help heal them. We can't, of course. We must leave to save ourselves. But the guilt seems inevitable when we leave. I think the key is to practice boundaries between ourselves and others. Their healing is up to them, not us.
@@neptunesdreams nope
He would tell me “ you have a black hole so big it can never be filled” I was always perplexed. Now I see that was massive projection!
Everytime I got a text, I had to show my ex, or she took my phone. Funny thing, she had a lock on her phone and was always texting.
This video put everything in it’s place. I am NOT crazy. God bless!
You're brilliant. Thank you so much. I wish I had seen this at the time.💕🍀
I remember conversations from hell where you a valid point and you know what your talking about and the abuser keeps changing the subject and if they see that wont work my ex would throw a verbally abusive word and you start trying to defend yourself and you wake up the next day exhausted and your head is spinning.and you never win arguments becuase arguments never get resolved plus gaslighting and word salad etc
To. A. T! Wow... she made me think I was the crazy one, the narcissist who invalidated her emotions, accused me of cheating even though she cheated, and was 100% the bad guy. However, you forgot the part where she flips out when I walk away and says, "there you go always running away from your problems"
Thanks, I lived and living ,the aftermath of a 7 year relationship. 2007 July I ran away from her to get away. I still don’t think I am “not over it yet”. Total cluster b gal with multiple personalities. Add booze and meth it’s a total roller coaster! Thanks I am educated now , you are a bastion of knowledge.
Wow everything you said makes so much sense and is truth !!! Thank you :)
You are speaking the last 15 years of my life.😭 9 months later after he discarded me for coworker about 17 years younger
That's a punch to the gut. You may look back on this eventually as the best thing to happen to you. That's how I look at the mullet-haired, bucktoothed, bisexual former child actress (same age) that my ex cheated on me with. In fact, I probably should send her a mini muffin basket.
Shrink4Men - Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
You are the best its nice to laugh for once in all this pain. She's still being love bombed. She knew about me and didn't care at all otherwise I'd feel sorry for her. When I met him He was single for well over a year. I could never do that to someone. She had no problem with it.
Spent (waisted) much energy in JADE with the DARVO queen...
Excellent video !
Listening to this again