*Hey guys, if you like this one and want me to do another race's lords let me know down below which race you want me to cover next. Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't. It doesn't really do anything and you won't get notifications most of the time and it doesn't really help me out at all, but just do it because numbers are cool*
Perhaps Kroq-Gar is gonna be first. He is strong in combat, provides useful buffs and reduces upkeep of monsters in his army. Faction wide, he isn't that great if I remember...
They play differently Mazdamundi - Leader/Buffer Kroq-Gar - Army General/Glass Canon but offer buffs to armies Gor-Rok - Absolute Tank/1 man army / John Wick of the Lizardmen Tehenhauin - Skirmisher/hit and run/Skaven like Nakai the Wanderer - Horde like mechanic Tiktaq'to - Airforce Commander
Hey Legend just gotta mention, like many others, I love these type of analytical series and hope you continue to do more like them. There are plenty of UA-camrs covering the multiplayer aspect of the game, but I feel we're lacking quality campaign breakdowns which you specialize in.
I'd say he specialises more in cheesing the ever living fuck out of everything and winning no matter what. You could give legend 3 drunk goblins, a leaky boat and -10,000,000 debt and he will somehow win with that.
Yeah but it wasn't good or analytical. He'd talk for ages about how bad something is and then give it an 8/10 anyway. That is pointless. Like how he did nothing but rag oon Grimgor and how bad his is at combat late game, how he never catches up to anythiong, how he's super one dimensional, then give him a 9/10
Aww, however much he falls back, Skarsnik will always be my favorite. How can you say no to the guy who gets born (spawned?/grown?) as the lowest of the low, the runt of a species that uses his kinds name as an insult, but pulls himself up to kick around or murder all those who bullied him.
This is why I like grom because hes for the goblins he is the biggest goblin and he will use goblins to destroy all in his path giving them hope in my opinion
@@hippokrates4494 they do but some are a bit different than others and i am aware it isnt real but it is sill fun to talk about, that's what fantasy is for.
"There is no spellcaster in the game thats as good in melee as Azhag and no melee lord in the game that is good as spellcaster as Azhag" Mannfred von Carstein wants to know you current location.
@@2456214 Noctilus sucks at damaging in melee, comparatively speaking. He's more of an artillery/tank hybrid. Necrofex colossus has bad animations and rather pathetic damage output in melee. And he's got so much important shit to level, that it's better to have a dedicated caster captain.
Not a legendary lord, but the new High elf Incendiary High mage Lords. Once they get on their Dragon they are unstoppable, also a wide variety of magic to choose from is something I would put up there too. Oh, and Ikit is a caster too, with ok magic but well, he's basically immortal.
I really enjoyed this. I'm relatively new to the game, so it's handy learning about the different legendary lords. I'd like to see one about the Empire or Vampire Counts.
I have over 400 hours and I still learn a lot from these videos! I mostly play on normal difficulty and prioritize themed armies rather than cheese, but it's good to learn about effective tactics or builds too.
Fully agree about Da Green Prophet being number one. Foot of Gork can singlehandedly win you battles, and he can spam that stuff like it's a fireball. I actually refrain from using it more than twice a battle because it feels like a cheesing, but he can easily cast it half a dozen times. That's why any non-monster unit based army gets obliterated by Wozag.
Luthor Harkon and Terrorgheist left the chat How did no one mention Mannfred von Carstein on zombie dragon? He and Malekith are probably the strongest ones in this archetype.
These are my favorite types of videos. I'm really only a casual at this game (dont really have the time anymore) so it's great to have someone who really digs into this stuff! Do High Elves next because they all seem pretty decent.
Tbh, Grom has some ridiculously powerful goblins, i took Ulthuan completely with nothing but Grom's army of goblins, the goblins had like almost 70 melee attack at that point, so even when the goblin archers ran out of ammo (they had armor piercing instead of extra ammo) they could go slap the enemy with ridiculously high melee attack, it was interesting to see dragons killed by goblins.
@@karkassmith3858 I do remember him making a sword but I can't remember it doing anything other than magical-ness. It does fit his ingame Phoenix affinity, but like, he shouldn't be dueling melee lords. I also wonder how he and Mazdamundi stack up against each other in the lore spellcasting wise... I could swear Mazda should be able to wipe the floor with him, but I actually think Teclis is pretty much even with him as the best general caster in the game (only being beaten in one category- Damage, by the Vamp Counts' winds). Fascinating
@@JB-xl2jc In the game, I don't know. But in the lore, I kinda feel like Teclis is regarded as the best magical user alive and one of the best in history, no?
@@Amphion0 He's considered similar to a "Caledor reborn" (which is a bit of a misnomer because I don't really think Caledor DIED but that's a whole other story) in that he's a prodigious Elf who mastered magic and is one of the best Elven casters of all time, and certainly much better than anything the Dark Elves (Morathi has millenia of experience on him but he's more talented), Wood Elves, Humans, Vamp Counts etc could produce. Mazdamundi however is the greatest of the Slann priests since Lord Kroak, and is purportedly able to do some of the things that Kroak was able to do, including some magic that affects entire continents. I don't know if the lore ever outright says one is better than the other, but both have some pretty insane exploits. Mazda is immortal and many Millenia old though, so he does have an experience edge on Teclis. Hard to say.
@@taylor189 I certainly got some real good use out of it in my campaign when I traded capitals with Belegar (I think I won that trade), then he just kept 3 armies there along with Karl Franz popping down to help out. Skarsnik disassembled that lot bit by bit very swiftly with multiple Lightning Strikes.
Hey Legend great video but I have a question about something that you bring up quite often in your evaluation videos. You often say that alot of bonuses that apply to early game units vs late game elite units are weak in comparison. But would it not be true that especially on legendary difficulty the most difficult portion of the playthrough is the very beginning when you really only have easy access to the early tier units? So would buffs and upkeep reductions to the basic core troops actually put in more work during this difficult portion of the game rather than a late game unit where perhaps you already have alot of settlements or gold to the point where things like upkeep reduction and stuff isn't as impactful? Perhaps im overexaggerating how long the early game is, but in alot of other strategy games bonuses that apply early and consistently rather than later and more situational (even if very powerful) are generally considered better. I will defer to your thoughts on this since you have much more experience in Legendary difficulty than I do. Thanks again for the video bud.
My two cents. Early game is really short in comparison to late game as late game can essentially be as long as it takes to finish all the victory requirements or full map completion. In my experience, "early game" is like the first 30-40 turns. Enemies are fairly well defined and limited, and they haven't had a chance to build up a bunch of full stacks with all gold chevrons. Early game can be railroaded or rehearsed to give the most optimal path as well. Whereas when you get to mid and late game trying to play optimally on the campaign map gets harder and more unpredictable. There are also not really early game doomstacks, so I imagine part of the evaluation goes into doomstack boosting.
@@sparkmagea99 While early game is indeed supposed to be only the first 30-40 turns, you can end up being stuck with early game units for much longer than that, because stopping and replacing your primary lord's army is time consuming and hiring a new army just so you can give your old lord a new army is bloody expensive, plus he may be far away from your highest level region where you can do your recruiting. I do agree that early game units can be useful a lot longer than Legend gave them credit in this video. (and can help you get the snowball rolling early)
@@jabloko992 Yeah good point, those boosts certainly have value in those circumstances. I'd guess you aren't striving to maintain those early game units though and would like to move past them given the opportunity. Boosting units you'd like to tech out of seems counter-productive from a pure efficiency point of view.
Ya I mean these are both valid points, and it's certainly going to depend on faction/unit/starting location to some extent as well. I only bring it up because often in games like these you can kind of snowball if you have enough early momentum, and sometimes even though in an absolute sense it's less efficient to get upgrade to troops you plan on replacing later, the early game tempo you gain by having some advantage early can equal or in many cases surpass the value of late game advantages.
You have a point that early is more difficult and your only army needs to perform well at low price nad never get wiped compared to late where you have multiple, therefore the starting one is far less relevant, especially if it's so overboosted it can get the job done without min/maxing. The problem wiht boosting low tier units is that you will inevetibly replace them and your lord has only 39 points to spent. Almost every point early gives you significant boost therefore buffing your units (unless you need to spent points in red line anyway) isn't as necessary compared to the plethora of options you have. In other words you always plan your LL build for lategame partially because it's more cool.
Thanks for the in-depth breakdown. I've never played greenskins, I played beastmen after the rework as well, loved it, so I thought I'd give orks a try. I was thinking Grimgor for first Lord just for the lore factor, so I really appreciated the explanations of all his pros and cons. I'm playing Warhammer 2 single player for now when I'm not playing WH3 multi-player with my friends. The Realms of Chaos campaign is to rigid in its race to the finish line mechanic, but I do love it, just not for replayability. I can't wait for immortal empires to launch, and for the quality content Legend is going grace us unworthy peons with.
I know it's a faction ability, but Azhag having no penalty for temperate climates makes him the #1 for me in Mortal Empires. I also think his waaagh ability is underrated. It gives every unit fear and terror, it's basically an instant win in the early game.
Groms battle stats dont appear to be that great at first sight but he keeps performing incredibly well in battle. There is that fish spell you can get via his cauldron (it doesnt look like much too but is really good) that will help him to eliminate infantry stacks in a matter of seconds!
This is a very comprehensive and well-reasoned analysis. I'd like to see you expand this type of faction LL analysis to others - esp. the ones I play a lot such as Empire, HE, Dwarf, et al.
Grimgore: I'M DA BEST LORD Wurrzhag: *Lord of the Dance* Grom: *Lord of the Paunch* Azhag: *Lord of the Shiny Death Hat* Skarsnik: *Lord of the SNEAKY STABBINGZ!* Grimgore: ...Okay...
The approach you took is essentially "which Greenskin Legendary Lord is best to confederate?" That's a useful question, but it's not really what people usually think of when they ask "WHO IS DA BEST?" . I think it's more useful to consider the factions when considering campaign bonuses. People want to know which faction is the strongest, not a priority list on confederating. So yeah, Broken Axe is best.
Broken Axe is the best between the greenskins when you are comparing the factions, but this isn't the same as comparing the legendary lords which is what Legend is doing in this video
Yeah it seemed somewhat misleading but at least the faction bonuses/mechanics power level usually correlates with LL power level. The system where 5 means nothing is pretty confusing as well and overall bad choice as it squishes the range. Just give negative sum negative rating, there aren't many anyway. I understand Legend wants these lists to be normalized somewhat and I like the self/commander/global categories but the game is too complex to reduce everything to one number at the end. Maybe mentioning how good each faction's bonuses are to give a better overall picture would be enough.
well if you are putting it like that you aren't comparing lords, but factions at that point. That adds the difficulty of starting position and magic item missions into the mix.
@@Olav_Hansen I mean, maybe to a small degree, but he's already considering early campaign versus late campaign here, so that sort of thing is already in play. . When you think about it, that actually makes the list doubly weird. If I am sitting at the start menu picking a faction, I care about how good Skarsnik's starting position is, which isn't considered here. But if I am confederating later in the game, I don't care about that, but I *also* don't care about Skarsnik's boosts to early game units, which *are* considered here. So these ratings are a bit of a mash-up that don't exactly fit anything. . Also, if he does this for TK or VCoast, is he still not going to consider faction bonuses? Because they can't confederate.
@@Olav_Hansen yeah what he said, if you are comparing factions rather then legendary lords you have to think about a whole lot more. And true enough you are more likely to check out this video when you are about to start a new campaign then when you are confederating. But knowing the potential of every LL counts in every campaign and I believe more people are interested in "Who iz da Best?" As faction specific mechanics are often quite short or "easy to understand" as in gaze the power lv. Further more if you are not talking about the full potential of a faction (and what is that once you own half the world and half the landmarks,... and items) you have to talk about the start and what there mechanics do for them and what they need. (Where they start and who they face,... determines what you need (most)) So that would make it more in a how hard or easy is this faction guide. So yeah there are a lot of pro's and cons to both proposals but personnally I think comparing the lords is the best thing but mentioning the faction mechanics and the impact in short seems like a good idea. But overal comparing factions will mean old world factions often stand no chanche and have nothing to say for them self (and make for a boring list and video eventhough interesting) and it be more of a campaign guide then anything in my eyes if you do it right. But well he could do both but 20 turn guides turned out to be not that succesfull especially not for the time that goes in to them, lets see how good this one does. Now WHII is getting more and more finished guides and... might be more relevant as they don't get so easily outdated then again how older the game the less new players there most likely are. And when WH III comes out and there might be an influx of players the guides probably get oudated or alteast are no longer relevant for WHIII.
I’ve been going on a binge of all these videos, loving them - maybe a related idea is to rate each faction for each race at some point? I’m relatively new to the game, so I know I’d find it useful
another benefit for wurrzag is he counts rogue idols as savage orcs, which means he ends up giving them a massive *45*% physical resist, not just 25 like you mentioned in the video. that's basically doubling their health.
I can't say if it would change his ranking, but with Grimgor if you can get 4 crowns of command (30 seconds of unbreakable) you can make the immortulz actually immortal. They'll keep on going with 1 hp each and never die or retreat. You gotta remember to re up that crown every 30 seconds though.
will you gonna cover all LL on each races?.if yes cover skaven and their changes from the latest patch pls. btw,why dont you look at each of their faction effect (not from global bonus of LL skill tree) into consideration?
@@sevthegamer8976 well,each LL are tied with faction they lead,when you play as A you will get this and this and this. and when you want to confederate (wich phase 2 or expanding),those LL will boost faction effect if they have faction bonuses.summary : 1.what faction effect is the strongest 2.what kind of buff each LL can provide when got confederated 3.what kind of good army each LL should have 4. how YOU manage those faction (wich the most important).
@@Ireyn100 the problem with that logic and he explained this in the video is a lot of the dlc lords have way more going on with faction effects than the base game lords, and it would make it unfair when comparing the two, take tretch who has some very minor stuff with diplomacy and snikch who can literally wipe out an entire faction late game with the push of a button, it's just not a fair comparison in any sense because they aren't necessarily worse, they just literally have less tools to work with.
Hey Legend, thanks for another good video, I really enjoyed this and found it very informative as I am still somewhat new at this game. I hope you do more ranking of lords in the future and I suggest you do vampire coast next. Peace and love .
I would say Skarsnik also gets a bit of a bonus because he starts off with Lightning Strike whereas other lords need to sink a bunch of skillpoints into the blue tree to get there. It's of course more of an early game bonus because you are probably gonna go into blue for propa tough anyways but particularily early in Skarsniks campaign, having that ability to completely deny enemy reinforcements is really essential because all of the order factions like to dogpile onto the crooked moons.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GRIMGOR IZ DA BEST ! Not 5 :( More seriously it was a bit logic and expected. He is probably harder than the others (except skarsnik) due to the fact he have 4 major factions to deal with in early-mid that always declare war on you on harder difficulties (eshin, mors, karaz-a-karak, Naggarond) and we could count 5 with Settra. And I agree that he isnt the ''best'' because of many factors that he dosent give like others, but I think he is still better than Skarsnik and deserve 4/5, he is better in term of power 1v1 even late, his buffs to big'uns and black orcs is strong and with iron rock and fort of the black orcs in black crag you can easy get tier 9 black orcs in mid-late. As you can rush easy tier 4 with him due to the fact black crag is strong and hard to lost if well defended, and as you can easy pick up Karak Dron and Iron rock to unite province and create more growth building. But yeah it's not really Grimgor himself but more faction... But let me make THE BEST OF BEST BETTER THAN EVERYONE ! GRIMGOR IZ DA BEST AND THAT'S ALL.
NAGGAROND?! In what world does Nagarrond declare on Grimgor? In the early/mid game? Did you mean Etaine (Tyrion)? Settra also won't declare because he either dies or loves you due to your strength rating.
@@jabloko992 Dark Elves are out on the island to the east from where you start. If you encounter them early on, they sometimes declare war on you. Which then gets Naggarond involved in hating you; but I never really see dark elves try to invade me when I play Grimgor. It's usually dwarves and rats.
What a great video. Additional things I would be interested in is how you would skill up the individual lords. You usually have to make compromises and that affects them. It's also very useful to have a skill reference when playing myself. Also it would be great if you could cover the faction's normal lords very very quickly as a baseline. That would also justify the 5/10 for no faction wide buffs. I define a 5/10 as the typical strength of a non legendary lord (typical over all factions). Considering that your video was already 30 minutes I can understand that this felt like a bit too much.
The Legend, the Meme, the absolute Unit of multiple Fractions: The Giant aka. that unit that is so bad that it got placed on tier lower in the Greenskins fractions and the only reason why your finish its building chain is so you can get better troll hags when buying them.
I love this type of video, as a mediocre player I’m really interested in hearing your opinion on these things, and you’ve made me better as a player from hearing how and why things suck or don’t
Congratz on being close to 300k! It's incredible how much content you can squeeze out of one game. W3 is getting close. Can't wait for content from that one. I have 4k hours on w2 this game just can't get old for some reason.
The nice thing about Skarsnik is that the Squig buffs as well as the Nightgoblin buffs apply to Nightgoblin Squig hoppas which gives them a really big boost overall. Sadly they are cavalry so in general not that good even if you cycle charge in an out. Still quite fun to play around at least in lower difficulties.
So id slightly disagree about Grimgor's battle ranking (probably keep the same ranking but still) because he can pretty early on in his campaign get black orks to level 7 on recruitment combined with his buffs and maintenance reduction basically makes him unstoppable throughout the midgame with a cheap but top tier army to combat the much more powerful dwarves.
Amazing video, please make this a series and make it into a playlist on your channel, this was while interesting to listen, also very educational. Next one I would like to hear about Dwarves, I have special relationship to them, as year ago, I used to play with my friend, and there was a prominent great green wave, at the time dwarves were hard until late game, sitting at home, and I couldn't get out with Thorgrim. But with Grombrindal, it was completly different game!
Been playing Skarsnik campaign and being a tiny green Sun Tzu is incredible. Really had to toy with the game in ways I never did before. Way more using vanguard deployment, using Nasty Skulkers to slow units down so ranged units can wear them down. The goblin buffs really make the cheap units punch above their weight class. Sure, a group of goblin spears will lose in a fight with Greatswords. Four goblin spears on all sides...
Hey Legend, thanks for the cool video! Sad to see grimgor at the bottom, but not unexpected. I just wanted to give an honorable mention to a pseudo-legendary lord available to the greenskins: Raknik Spiderclaw. He is the special night goblin shaman lord available to all greenskin factions via research. In my opinion, he may actually be better than some of the options here (atleast, better than grimgor). Combat: 9/10 Command:9/10 Faction:5/10 So, faction is 5/10 as per your system, he doesn't do anything, positive or negative. Nothing much to say Combat: 9/10 Combat is 9/10 exclusively because of his access to a mount which is often considered the best (or atleast top 3) units of the greenskin roster: The Catchweb spidershrine: a unique araknarok spider mount that boosts spellcasting. Which is great, because in addition to a powerful monster mount he is a spellcaster lord! It is always the school of the little waagh, which is somewhat unfortunate. While it offers some excellent advantages in battle, it lacks the ability to pump out damage like the big waagh with foot of gork. Still, a combination of strong mount and spell casting make him fierce on the battlefied. Command: 9/10 I was tempted to make this 10/10; the only thing holding me back is that I am unsure what a greenskin final doomstack looks like. If it is supposed to look like 2-3 heroes, a few doomdivers and the rest being araknarok spiders, then boy is this the lord for you. +10 attack to all spider units in your army, including araknarok spiders! A beast of a unit you yourself often include among the best greenskin units. Obviously, this command benefit is only useful in this sense, when it is rather late in the game and you can afford a full araknarok army, but when you can boy does it perform. All in all, this makes him something like an 8/10. Not a legendary lord, and not really beneficial till the middle-end of your campaign, but a great candidate for your second doomstack army, and available no matter what faction you choose. Late game, I suspect only wurzag would field a stronger army than this guy.
Kinda neat to know he changed his mind on bloated corpses after all this time since even back then I was using them to get rid of three or four elite units at a time and using them to win at sea treasure battles that I had no place winning.
*Hey guys, if you like this one and want me to do another race's lords let me know down below which race you want me to cover next. Don't forget to subscribe if you haven't. It doesn't really do anything and you won't get notifications most of the time and it doesn't really help me out at all, but just do it because numbers are cool*
Dark Elves
VC
Chaos
Lizardmen would be nice
dwarf
Next video: WHO IS DA BEST GORK OR MORK!? KOMPARATIF ANALIZIZ
MORK IZ BEST! *Krump*
GORK IZ BEST! *Stomp*
@@BigPapaKaiser GORK IS DA BEST YA DUM GIT! I BASH YA TEEF IN!
WEEZ GOT UNUVA GOD NOW. DORK.
That's a hard one. Gork is cunningly brutal, but Mork is brutally cunning.
I'd be interested in a lizardman legendary Lord's list. They all seem very different in terms of roles
Slan mage of life, is the best legendary lord :D
Aleksander Wertynski Lord Kroak?
Perhaps Kroq-Gar is gonna be first. He is strong in combat, provides useful buffs and reduces upkeep of monsters in his army. Faction wide, he isn't that great if I remember...
Антон Волков doesn’t count, it is a hero not a lord
They play differently
Mazdamundi - Leader/Buffer
Kroq-Gar - Army General/Glass Canon but offer buffs to armies
Gor-Rok - Absolute Tank/1 man army / John Wick of the Lizardmen
Tehenhauin - Skirmisher/hit and run/Skaven like
Nakai the Wanderer
- Horde like mechanic
Tiktaq'to - Airforce Commander
"Grimgor is the worst orc LL"
[Wurrzag dancing in the distance]
The lore has been broken
this looks like a great format, would love to see on the other races as well :)
Did you watch the video? He said he is.
I can’t wait for lizard men. Love their combat skill.
@@jacobwarkentin2156 lizard dork
@@fiddlesticks7245 greemskin mork.
Hey Legend just gotta mention, like many others, I love these type of analytical series and hope you continue to do more like them.
There are plenty of UA-camrs covering the multiplayer aspect of the game, but I feel we're lacking quality campaign breakdowns which you specialize in.
I'd say he specialises more in cheesing the ever living fuck out of everything and winning no matter what. You could give legend 3 drunk goblins, a leaky boat and -10,000,000 debt and he will somehow win with that.
@@jabloko992 Yeah, I bet he'd first disband the leaky boat
Yeah but it wasn't good or analytical. He'd talk for ages about how bad something is and then give it an 8/10 anyway. That is pointless. Like how he did nothing but rag oon Grimgor and how bad his is at combat late game, how he never catches up to anythiong, how he's super one dimensional, then give him a 9/10
@@Noobie2k7 you didn't listen to what he was saying then
@Xandroy the IGN rating system. Worst game ever. 7/10.
*Sees number 5*
OOO! Thats spicy!
only if you don't watch Legend regularly, I think all of his regular viewers saw that one coming from a mile away
@@jabloko992 Was about to say that. Let's be honest we all knew what was going to be last when he said that his 5th spot may be controversial.
That 30% post battle loot though..
Man urinates on fellow passenger for not being aloud to smoke
it was expected - just look at those sick dance moves while he crushes dwarfs with gorks foot!
Sounds like a party.
@@SheepWaveMeByeBye foot party
Of course Wurzzag is the best.
Have you SEEN his dancing?
Wurrzag, more faithfull to his gods than any Chaos Worrshiper, more insane too.
Aww, however much he falls back, Skarsnik will always be my favorite. How can you say no to the guy who gets born (spawned?/grown?) as the lowest of the low, the runt of a species that uses his kinds name as an insult, but pulls himself up to kick around or murder all those who bullied him.
This is why I like grom because hes for the goblins he is the biggest goblin and he will use goblins to destroy all in his path giving them hope in my opinion
@@davidkrapensits4367 haha :D it is fantasy not real my friend. And greenskins are mushrooms. They feel not like humans and like to destroy and kill.
@@hippokrates4494 they do but some are a bit different than others and i am aware it isnt real but it is sill fun to talk about, that's what fantasy is for.
This is awesome Legend! Would love to see Brettonia, Dark Elves and/or Empire next.
"There is no spellcaster in the game thats as good in melee as Azhag and no melee lord in the game that is good as spellcaster as Azhag"
Mannfred von Carstein wants to know you current location.
Mannfred in SFO is crazy too.
I would also put Malekith and Noctilus in this category.
@@2456214
Noctilus sucks at damaging in melee, comparatively speaking. He's more of an artillery/tank hybrid. Necrofex colossus has bad animations and rather pathetic damage output in melee. And he's got so much important shit to level, that it's better to have a dedicated caster captain.
@@thetrustysidekick3013 SFO?
Not a legendary lord, but the new High elf Incendiary High mage Lords. Once they get on their Dragon they are unstoppable, also a wide variety of magic to choose from is something I would put up there too. Oh, and Ikit is a caster too, with ok magic but well, he's basically immortal.
I really enjoyed this. I'm relatively new to the game, so it's handy learning about the different legendary lords. I'd like to see one about the Empire or Vampire Counts.
I have over 400 hours and I still learn a lot from these videos! I mostly play on normal difficulty and prioritize themed armies rather than cheese, but it's good to learn about effective tactics or builds too.
Thing is with like empire its fairly obvious that franz and volkmar suck then forest boi and n1 goldie boi. Not worth doing a vid on that
As a guy with nearly 3K hours, I'm still learning something new.
Vampire Counts, seconded! I have many hours (though I don't claim to actually be any good) and I always learn things from both Legend and Zerkovich.
with legendoftotalwar having 6000 hours, even he learns something new every now and then.
I'm da best cuz I gots Gork n Mork on me side!
Wurrzag Da Great Green Prophet Oi, Shaman! Do a Mork’a dance for da boyz?!
Fully agree about Da Green Prophet being number one. Foot of Gork can singlehandedly win you battles, and he can spam that stuff like it's a fireball. I actually refrain from using it more than twice a battle because it feels like a cheesing, but he can easily cast it half a dozen times. That's why any non-monster unit based army gets obliterated by Wozag.
7:10 - Teclis and Arcane Phoenix have left the chat
Malekith has left the chat
Luthor Harkon and Terrorgheist left the chat
How did no one mention Mannfred von Carstein on zombie dragon? He and Malekith are probably the strongest ones in this archetype.
This is a great series idea! Looking forward to other factions!
These are my favorite types of videos. I'm really only a casual at this game (dont really have the time anymore) so it's great to have someone who really digs into this stuff! Do High Elves next because they all seem pretty decent.
By the end of quarantine I’m going to end up looking like Grom
And I will end like Wurrzag in the sense that I am practice tribal dance.
Seriously the guy that fucked up the world sure looks like lord Skrolk.
27:40 That guy REALLY pissed off Mork, or possibly Gork.
This kind of feels like a political attack ad against Grimgor
Grimgor is cool in MP. Legendary campaign forces you to cheese. All units except of archers, artillery and monsters are useless thanks to AI buffs.
Tbh, Grom has some ridiculously powerful goblins, i took Ulthuan completely with nothing but Grom's army of goblins, the goblins had like almost 70 melee attack at that point, so even when the goblin archers ran out of ammo (they had armor piercing instead of extra ammo) they could go slap the enemy with ridiculously high melee attack, it was interesting to see dragons killed by goblins.
“There’s no better hybrid caster melee lord” laughs in teclis pigeon
Okay teclis pigeon is the stupidest thing ever...he never rode it in the books...he is also SUPPOSED to be squishy like the nerd he is.
@@karkassmith3858 I do remember him making a sword but I can't remember it doing anything other than magical-ness. It does fit his ingame Phoenix affinity, but like, he shouldn't be dueling melee lords. I also wonder how he and Mazdamundi stack up against each other in the lore spellcasting wise... I could swear Mazda should be able to wipe the floor with him, but I actually think Teclis is pretty much even with him as the best general caster in the game (only being beaten in one category- Damage, by the Vamp Counts' winds). Fascinating
@@JB-xl2jc In the game, I don't know. But in the lore, I kinda feel like Teclis is regarded as the best magical user alive and one of the best in history, no?
@@Amphion0 He's considered similar to a "Caledor reborn" (which is a bit of a misnomer because I don't really think Caledor DIED but that's a whole other story) in that he's a prodigious Elf who mastered magic and is one of the best Elven casters of all time, and certainly much better than anything the Dark Elves (Morathi has millenia of experience on him but he's more talented), Wood Elves, Humans, Vamp Counts etc could produce. Mazdamundi however is the greatest of the Slann priests since Lord Kroak, and is purportedly able to do some of the things that Kroak was able to do, including some magic that affects entire continents. I don't know if the lore ever outright says one is better than the other, but both have some pretty insane exploits. Mazda is immortal and many Millenia old though, so he does have an experience edge on Teclis. Hard to say.
Did you take Skarsnik's free lighting strike into account? LS at turn one is awesome.
if he did he didnt mention it
You missed the first 5 min? Its a faction ability.
It's nice that it is free but lightning strike is rarely utilized early on, much more useful mid to late game
@@Grothgerek Fired up the game to double check, but no. It's Skarsnik's Lord trait.
@@taylor189 I certainly got some real good use out of it in my campaign when I traded capitals with Belegar (I think I won that trade), then he just kept 3 armies there along with Karl Franz popping down to help out. Skarsnik disassembled that lot bit by bit very swiftly with multiple Lightning Strikes.
“He gets a Wyvern”
Why you gotta do my boy Skullmuncha dirty like that 😢
this is great! always my number 1 source of warhammer 2 strategy wisdom. i would greatly appreciate a lizardman ranking video next!
before the video, my prediction of the ranking:
1. Wurrzhag
2. Azhag
3. Grom
4. Skarsnik
5. Grimgor
Edit: almost
damn so close
@@thehistorians5231 I thought Azhag would rank higher due to his magic, but I never played Grom so I wasn't aware of the chariot shenaniganry.
I absolutely love this series idea. Definitely continue it!
"So if you got a blob of Arachnorok Spiders, or Giants (...GOD FORBID)"
Died there
Nice review Legend, thanks for taking the time to produce this.
Hey Legend great video but I have a question about something that you bring up quite often in your evaluation videos. You often say that alot of bonuses that apply to early game units vs late game elite units are weak in comparison. But would it not be true that especially on legendary difficulty the most difficult portion of the playthrough is the very beginning when you really only have easy access to the early tier units? So would buffs and upkeep reductions to the basic core troops actually put in more work during this difficult portion of the game rather than a late game unit where perhaps you already have alot of settlements or gold to the point where things like upkeep reduction and stuff isn't as impactful? Perhaps im overexaggerating how long the early game is, but in alot of other strategy games bonuses that apply early and consistently rather than later and more situational (even if very powerful) are generally considered better. I will defer to your thoughts on this since you have much more experience in Legendary difficulty than I do. Thanks again for the video bud.
My two cents. Early game is really short in comparison to late game as late game can essentially be as long as it takes to finish all the victory requirements or full map completion. In my experience, "early game" is like the first 30-40 turns. Enemies are fairly well defined and limited, and they haven't had a chance to build up a bunch of full stacks with all gold chevrons. Early game can be railroaded or rehearsed to give the most optimal path as well. Whereas when you get to mid and late game trying to play optimally on the campaign map gets harder and more unpredictable. There are also not really early game doomstacks, so I imagine part of the evaluation goes into doomstack boosting.
@@sparkmagea99 While early game is indeed supposed to be only the first 30-40 turns, you can end up being stuck with early game units for much longer than that, because stopping and replacing your primary lord's army is time consuming and hiring a new army just so you can give your old lord a new army is bloody expensive, plus he may be far away from your highest level region where you can do your recruiting.
I do agree that early game units can be useful a lot longer than Legend gave them credit in this video. (and can help you get the snowball rolling early)
@@jabloko992 Yeah good point, those boosts certainly have value in those circumstances. I'd guess you aren't striving to maintain those early game units though and would like to move past them given the opportunity. Boosting units you'd like to tech out of seems counter-productive from a pure efficiency point of view.
Ya I mean these are both valid points, and it's certainly going to depend on faction/unit/starting location to some extent as well. I only bring it up because often in games like these you can kind of snowball if you have enough early momentum, and sometimes even though in an absolute sense it's less efficient to get upgrade to troops you plan on replacing later, the early game tempo you gain by having some advantage early can equal or in many cases surpass the value of late game advantages.
You have a point that early is more difficult and your only army needs to perform well at low price nad never get wiped compared to late where you have multiple, therefore the starting one is far less relevant, especially if it's so overboosted it can get the job done without min/maxing. The problem wiht boosting low tier units is that you will inevetibly replace them and your lord has only 39 points to spent. Almost every point early gives you significant boost therefore buffing your units (unless you need to spent points in red line anyway) isn't as necessary compared to the plethora of options you have. In other words you always plan your LL build for lategame partially because it's more cool.
Thanks for the in-depth breakdown. I've never played greenskins, I played beastmen after the rework as well, loved it, so I thought I'd give orks a try. I was thinking Grimgor for first Lord just for the lore factor, so I really appreciated the explanations of all his pros and cons.
I'm playing Warhammer 2 single player for now when I'm not playing WH3 multi-player with my friends. The Realms of Chaos campaign is to rigid in its race to the finish line mechanic, but I do love it, just not for replayability.
I can't wait for immortal empires to launch, and for the quality content Legend is going grace us unworthy peons with.
I know it's a faction ability, but Azhag having no penalty for temperate climates makes him the #1 for me in Mortal Empires. I also think his waaagh ability is underrated. It gives every unit fear and terror, it's basically an instant win in the early game.
I actually really enjoyed this video and hope you keep this up as a series for all the lords
Groms battle stats dont appear to be that great at first sight but he keeps performing incredibly well in battle. There is that fish spell you can get via his cauldron (it doesnt look like much too but is really good) that will help him to eliminate infantry stacks in a matter of seconds!
This is a very comprehensive and well-reasoned analysis. I'd like to see you expand this type of faction LL analysis to others - esp. the ones I play a lot such as Empire, HE, Dwarf, et al.
isn’t malekith the best hybrid lord in combat?
Yes I suppose so. Malekith is actually one of the 5 lords that are 10/10 so he is 2 points higher than azhag anyway.
LegendofTotalWar yep, thanks for the reply. and who are the other 10/10 lords?
@@calinfroicu7433 alariele, Wulfrik, tyrion (i believe) not sure for other or if it has changed,
I don't think dark magic is better than death magic. But I do believe Ikit Claw and Luthor Harkon are better hybrid lord.
@@calinfroicu7433 Mannfred, Tyrion, Settra,
Really enjoyed this format, looking forward to seeing the next one. Would love to see High Elves or Empire
7:15
"There is no melee lord in the game that is as good a spellcaster as him"
Mannfred von Karstein: Let me introduce myself
You mean vlad
Please do more of this, it's so informative, I learned a lot from your video.
Legend of Total War: “Sheymen”
Me:’Visible Confusion’
Do the rest of the races mate! Enjoyed this one.
Grimgore: I'M DA BEST LORD
Wurrzhag: *Lord of the Dance*
Grom: *Lord of the Paunch*
Azhag: *Lord of the Shiny Death Hat*
Skarsnik: *Lord of the SNEAKY STABBINGZ!*
Grimgore: ...Okay...
Grimgor is the lord of da krump. He krumps the hardest, but damn If it doesn't take a long time for him to get to his krump target.
"da immortulz aren't immortal" *confidant doomstack wants to know your location
"Azhag is the best hybrid lord" *sad Malekith noises*
The vampires and vampire coast are both doubting this assertion.
@@FuelDropforthewin Teclis agree.
@@bernddasbrot3563 Do you mean Eltharion?
Ikit Claw is preparing kill devices in the corner.
@@FuelDropforthewin ikit claw would also protest
Love this type of video comparing the lords of a faction to each other.
"Azhag is kind of the best hybrid lord"
*Mannfred* *von* *Carstein* *wants* *to* *know* *your* *location*
I am a bit new to war hammer and this was nice info to know. Please do more
y u bullying grimgork ?
Please do Dark Elves next
Love this video format as well and would love to see this for all of them, great content all around and informative
28:18 time to send in a bloated corpse stack for "saving your disaster campaigns" :'D
Good work on this vid. Detailed explanations are what is keeping me listening and wait for the next vid.
7:10 Malekith: "Am I a joke for you?"
Really useful. Probably a fair bit of work. Look forward to seeing rest of these
The approach you took is essentially "which Greenskin Legendary Lord is best to confederate?" That's a useful question, but it's not really what people usually think of when they ask "WHO IS DA BEST?"
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I think it's more useful to consider the factions when considering campaign bonuses. People want to know which faction is the strongest, not a priority list on confederating. So yeah, Broken Axe is best.
Broken Axe is the best between the greenskins when you are comparing the factions, but this isn't the same as comparing the legendary lords which is what Legend is doing in this video
Yeah it seemed somewhat misleading but at least the faction bonuses/mechanics power level usually correlates with LL power level. The system where 5 means nothing is pretty confusing as well and overall bad choice as it squishes the range. Just give negative sum negative rating, there aren't many anyway. I understand Legend wants these lists to be normalized somewhat and I like the self/commander/global categories but the game is too complex to reduce everything to one number at the end. Maybe mentioning how good each faction's bonuses are to give a better overall picture would be enough.
well if you are putting it like that you aren't comparing lords, but factions at that point. That adds the difficulty of starting position and magic item missions into the mix.
@@Olav_Hansen I mean, maybe to a small degree, but he's already considering early campaign versus late campaign here, so that sort of thing is already in play.
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When you think about it, that actually makes the list doubly weird. If I am sitting at the start menu picking a faction, I care about how good Skarsnik's starting position is, which isn't considered here. But if I am confederating later in the game, I don't care about that, but I *also* don't care about Skarsnik's boosts to early game units, which *are* considered here. So these ratings are a bit of a mash-up that don't exactly fit anything.
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Also, if he does this for TK or VCoast, is he still not going to consider faction bonuses? Because they can't confederate.
@@Olav_Hansen yeah what he said, if you are comparing factions rather then legendary lords you have to think about a whole lot more. And true enough you are more likely to check out this video when you are about to start a new campaign then when you are confederating. But knowing the potential of every LL counts in every campaign and I believe more people are interested in "Who iz da Best?"
As faction specific mechanics are often quite short or "easy to understand" as in gaze the power lv. Further more if you are not talking about the full potential of a faction (and what is that once you own half the world and half the landmarks,... and items) you have to talk about the start and what there mechanics do for them and what they need. (Where they start and who they face,... determines what you need (most)) So that would make it more in a how hard or easy is this faction guide.
So yeah there are a lot of pro's and cons to both proposals but personnally I think comparing the lords is the best thing but mentioning the faction mechanics and the impact in short seems like a good idea. But overal comparing factions will mean old world factions often stand no chanche and have nothing to say for them self (and make for a boring list and video eventhough interesting) and it be more of a campaign guide then anything in my eyes if you do it right.
But well he could do both but 20 turn guides turned out to be not that succesfull especially not for the time that goes in to them, lets see how good this one does. Now WHII is getting more and more finished guides and... might be more relevant as they don't get so easily outdated then again how older the game the less new players there most likely are. And when WH III comes out and there might be an influx of players the guides probably get oudated or alteast are no longer relevant for WHIII.
I’ve been going on a binge of all these videos, loving them - maybe a related idea is to rate each faction for each race at some point? I’m relatively new to the game, so I know I’d find it useful
another benefit for wurrzag is he counts rogue idols as savage orcs, which means he ends up giving them a massive *45*% physical resist, not just 25 like you mentioned in the video. that's basically doubling their health.
I can't say if it would change his ranking, but with Grimgor if you can get 4 crowns of command (30 seconds of unbreakable) you can make the immortulz actually immortal. They'll keep on going with 1 hp each and never die or retreat. You gotta remember to re up that crown every 30 seconds though.
Regend, I would like to see Clan Rictus or Wintertooth campaing
thats some classic trolls right there if u know what I mean :D
You will see Clan Rictus 100x sooner than you will see Wintertooth, Legend will only do Wintertooth (I think) for a challenge campaign.
This may be my favorite Legend video to date
will you gonna cover all LL on each races?.if yes cover skaven and their changes from the latest patch pls.
btw,why dont you look at each of their faction effect (not from global bonus of LL skill tree) into consideration?
He is covering the lords and not the factions of them, that's why he doesn't take in consideration the faction effects.
I would say
1.Ikit
2.Skrolk
3.Queek
4.Snikch
5.Tretch
@@sevthegamer8976 well,each LL are tied with faction they lead,when you play as A you will get this and this and this. and when you want to confederate (wich phase 2 or expanding),those LL will boost faction effect if they have faction bonuses.summary : 1.what faction effect is the strongest 2.what kind of buff each LL can provide when got confederated 3.what kind of good army each LL should have 4. how YOU manage those faction (wich the most important).
@@Ireyn100 the problem with that logic and he explained this in the video is a lot of the dlc lords have way more going on with faction effects than the base game lords, and it would make it unfair when comparing the two, take tretch who has some very minor stuff with diplomacy and snikch who can literally wipe out an entire faction late game with the push of a button, it's just not a fair comparison in any sense because they aren't necessarily worse, they just literally have less tools to work with.
Awesome vid and agree with the rankings. DA GREAT GREEN PROPHET is definitely Da Best right now.
imo all chariots should have that attack during move gimmick
I love this format. Please do more lord comparisons going forward. Don't really mind which faction.
Finally someone that tells the truth about Grimgor, appreciate it!
Hey Legend, thanks for another good video, I really enjoyed this and found it very informative as I am still somewhat new at this game. I hope you do more ranking of lords in the future and I suggest you do vampire coast next. Peace and love .
GRIMGOR STILL DA ' BEZT
I knew you were wrong about bloated corpses ahah! Anyway great video, I'd love a Lizardmen or Tomb Kings lord comparison
But legend I had an amazing campaign once as grimgor so he is clearly number 1 (read this in legends mocking voice)
First time in a while I've liked the video before watching it, but let's all be honest, we all know how good these guides are.
AY CAN YOU DO'S A "WHOZ DAH SMELLIEST GIT?" ID LIKE DAT
I would say Skarsnik also gets a bit of a bonus because he starts off with Lightning Strike whereas other lords need to sink a bunch of skillpoints into the blue tree to get there. It's of course more of an early game bonus because you are probably gonna go into blue for propa tough anyways but particularily early in Skarsniks campaign, having that ability to completely deny enemy reinforcements is really essential because all of the order factions like to dogpile onto the crooked moons.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GRIMGOR IZ DA BEST ! Not 5 :(
More seriously it was a bit logic and expected.
He is probably harder than the others (except skarsnik) due to the fact he have 4 major factions to deal with in early-mid that always declare war on you on harder difficulties (eshin, mors, karaz-a-karak, Naggarond) and we could count 5 with Settra.
And I agree that he isnt the ''best'' because of many factors that he dosent give like others, but I think he is still better than Skarsnik and deserve 4/5, he is better in term of power 1v1 even late, his buffs to big'uns and black orcs is strong and with iron rock and fort of the black orcs in black crag you can easy get tier 9 black orcs in mid-late. As you can rush easy tier 4 with him due to the fact black crag is strong and hard to lost if well defended, and as you can easy pick up Karak Dron and Iron rock to unite province and create more growth building.
But yeah it's not really Grimgor himself but more faction... But let me make THE BEST OF BEST BETTER THAN EVERYONE ! GRIMGOR IZ DA BEST AND THAT'S ALL.
NAGGAROND?! In what world does Nagarrond declare on Grimgor? In the early/mid game? Did you mean Etaine (Tyrion)? Settra also won't declare because he either dies or loves you due to your strength rating.
@@jabloko992 Dark Elves are out on the island to the east from where you start. If you encounter them early on, they sometimes declare war on you. Which then gets Naggarond involved in hating you; but I never really see dark elves try to invade me when I play Grimgor. It's usually dwarves and rats.
What a great video. Additional things I would be interested in is how you would skill up the individual lords. You usually have to make compromises and that affects them. It's also very useful to have a skill reference when playing myself. Also it would be great if you could cover the faction's normal lords very very quickly as a baseline. That would also justify the 5/10 for no faction wide buffs. I define a 5/10 as the typical strength of a non legendary lord (typical over all factions). Considering that your video was already 30 minutes I can understand that this felt like a bit too much.
The only reason why Wurrzag is da best is because he starts with a giant
The Legend, the Meme, the absolute Unit of multiple Fractions: The Giant aka. that unit that is so bad that it got placed on tier lower in the Greenskins fractions and the only reason why your finish its building chain is so you can get better troll hags when buying them.
I love this type of video, as a mediocre player I’m really interested in hearing your opinion on these things, and you’ve made me better as a player from hearing how and why things suck or don’t
No spellcaster fight better in melee than Azhag, and no melee lord casts spell better than Azhag.
Luthor Harkon and Ikit Claw dislike the video
Since when Luthor Harkon can cast spells? Do you mean NOctilus?
And Malekith and Morathi!
Vlad left the room...
@@KorsAir1987 I think Malekith is no better spell caster and Morathi is not good in melee
Teclis on his Arcane Phoenix?
I like the informative series you do on TWH2! Things like this and faction / lord overviews
Congratz on being close to 300k! It's incredible how much content you can squeeze out of one game. W3 is getting close. Can't wait for content from that one. I have 4k hours on w2 this game just can't get old for some reason.
Loved the slow mo on that empire guy surviving a blow from a savage orc to the neck!
The nice thing about Skarsnik is that the Squig buffs as well as the Nightgoblin buffs apply to Nightgoblin Squig hoppas which gives them a really big boost overall. Sadly they are cavalry so in general not that good even if you cycle charge in an out. Still quite fun to play around at least in lower difficulties.
Great vid, can't wait to see if it turns into a series which it really should do.
So id slightly disagree about Grimgor's battle ranking (probably keep the same ranking but still) because he can pretty early on in his campaign get black orks to level 7 on recruitment combined with his buffs and maintenance reduction basically makes him unstoppable throughout the midgame with a cheap but top tier army to combat the much more powerful dwarves.
I love this video and hope for A LOT MOR of that kind
Marvelous!
Great video, and a very good series idea. Would love to see more.
Love your content !
Oh nice, love these Comparison and Ranking videos Legend, thanks!
That's great, would love to see more on other races and some tutorials for build path as well!
Love these videos. Would love more legendary lord ranking
Loved it! Looking forward to future episodes
Love this type of video, and I can’t wait for more like this one.
Amazing video, please make this a series and make it into a playlist on your channel, this was while interesting to listen, also very educational.
Next one I would like to hear about Dwarves, I have special relationship to them, as year ago, I used to play with my friend, and there was a prominent great green wave, at the time dwarves were hard until late game, sitting at home, and I couldn't get out with Thorgrim. But with Grombrindal, it was completly different game!
Unless the category is lore, this channel is 'da best.
Been playing Skarsnik campaign and being a tiny green Sun Tzu is incredible. Really had to toy with the game in ways I never did before. Way more using vanguard deployment, using Nasty Skulkers to slow units down so ranged units can wear them down. The goblin buffs really make the cheap units punch above their weight class. Sure, a group of goblin spears will lose in a fight with Greatswords. Four goblin spears on all sides...
super cool vid. answers a many live questions on stream. more like this pls.
Wurzag has always been my favourite I think it's the most fun greenskin game
Hey Legend, thanks for the cool video! Sad to see grimgor at the bottom, but not unexpected. I just wanted to give an honorable mention to a pseudo-legendary lord available to the greenskins: Raknik Spiderclaw. He is the special night goblin shaman lord available to all greenskin factions via research. In my opinion, he may actually be better than some of the options here (atleast, better than grimgor).
Combat: 9/10
Command:9/10
Faction:5/10
So, faction is 5/10 as per your system, he doesn't do anything, positive or negative. Nothing much to say
Combat: 9/10
Combat is 9/10 exclusively because of his access to a mount which is often considered the best (or atleast top 3) units of the greenskin roster: The Catchweb spidershrine: a unique araknarok spider mount that boosts spellcasting. Which is great, because in addition to a powerful monster mount he is a spellcaster lord! It is always the school of the little waagh, which is somewhat unfortunate. While it offers some excellent advantages in battle, it lacks the ability to pump out damage like the big waagh with foot of gork. Still, a combination of strong mount and spell casting make him fierce on the battlefied.
Command: 9/10
I was tempted to make this 10/10; the only thing holding me back is that I am unsure what a greenskin final doomstack looks like. If it is supposed to look like 2-3 heroes, a few doomdivers and the rest being araknarok spiders, then boy is this the lord for you. +10 attack to all spider units in your army, including araknarok spiders! A beast of a unit you yourself often include among the best greenskin units. Obviously, this command benefit is only useful in this sense, when it is rather late in the game and you can afford a full araknarok army, but when you can boy does it perform.
All in all, this makes him something like an 8/10. Not a legendary lord, and not really beneficial till the middle-end of your campaign, but a great candidate for your second doomstack army, and available no matter what faction you choose. Late game, I suspect only wurzag would field a stronger army than this guy.
11:07
Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks of Fat Bastard whenever I see Grom.
I even made a meme video about it.
He would need a diet or that wolves would not handle him
Kinda neat to know he changed his mind on bloated corpses after all this time since even back then I was using them to get rid of three or four elite units at a time and using them to win at sea treasure battles that I had no place winning.
Really like these kind of videos. Hope you do the Empire next!
20:15 What do you think now about Grimgorg once you have seen the INMORTALZ cheese? This would change Grimgorg's Rank?