Dwarf Unit Roster Tier Ranking
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 сер 2024
- Tier list of all Dwarf units recruited in Total War: Warhammer 2 excluding regiments of renown, heroes, and lords. Check out link below to post your own ranking of the Dwarf roster.
tiermaker.com/create/total-wa...
0:00 Intro
1:00 Melee Infantry
9:42 Missile Infantry
15:37 Gyrocopters
18:15 Artillery
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No matter how you rank these units, you’re still ending up in the book
No matter how many times people make this joke it'll never be funny
@@Regnier575 That's going in the book
@@daanvanrijn4117 He's going in the book
@@Regnier575 welcome to the book
@@Regnier575 It will never be not funny. Your lack of enjoyment goes into the book!
Legend: we won't get as much trash melee inf as usual
Slayers: *sweats nervously*
not sure how they hold up right now but 6 months ago the slayer doomstack on ungrim was crazy strong. you could kill 3 lategame dark elf stacks with it
@@langa77777 The ungrim nerf kind of destroyed that. The passive bonus he provides now is pretty much useless now
Since their role is to kill themselves ... its trash. Absolute trash
Since you can replenish them instantly ... its useable.
I agree with Legend. Slayers are great now! Not as units but as a “oshitthegreentideishereandI’mstillrecruitingspamspamspamspamsPam!” Unit.
After all, even a shit unit when it’s unbreakable is better than no unit, because worst-case scenario is they’ll just turn into ‘no unit’ later into the battle.
@@BringDHouseDown u sound like Tomb Kings priest.
You know Ironbreakers really are excellent when even Legend praises them in spite of being melee infantry
I've seen Ironbreakers still fighting with like 2 or 3 dudes left in the entire unit, how does the leadership debuff from losses even allow that?
@@garrettrachford472 It's a flat amount. If you can boost a units leadership to over 150 it is essentially unbreakable before army losees. If you can boost it to 250 or you just don't take that much damage with them it is unbreakable.
They have fought down to the last dwarf for me on Hard and VeryHard battles in my experience. They are very much worth the upkeep and recruitment cost.
@@garrettrachford472 They just have insane base leadership, and since they take damage slowly, they also take less leadership penalties.
Leadership debuff is not purely based on damage but also on how fast it is inflicted, so a unit such as the Ironbreakers which can hold the line for so long will take less leadership penalties, while one that takes damage quickly will rout faster.
When you add on top of it all the ways dwarfs have to increase leadership, it's no wonder they fight to the death, you can legit get Ironbreakers defending a settlement to 130+ leadership, which is even more than the army losses penalty
Ironbreaker breaks melee balance and autoresolve both. Its a god-tier unit. Not just best melee unit, one if not THE BEST unit in the entire game. Alright, mammoths may contend with it, but thats about it. Not sure who'd win in a fight between a non-rampaging mammoth and an ironbreaker unit honestly. Id have put it into doomstack. You totally could do that. Not optimal ignoring dwarven artillery, but they would be more than capable.
I look forward to the vampire counts tier list. With how Legend plays them i imagine it will be skeletons at doomstack tier, mortis engine at c tier, and everything else trash.
Im hoping for a more vacuum-y list. Legend was fair with Gyrocopters, bombers, rangers, even slayers here. Even though he rarely (or never) uses any of those. Saying Terrorgheist or Varghulf sucks just because he doesnt use anything above tier2 would be unfair.
@@Grivehn I find his playstyle of the VC very boring. I mean every battle is a slogfest of using magic and kiting the enemy. I just dont like it even though I admit its very effective to have 10 armies when the AI has 2 :D
The only realiable way to play vampire counts is with heroes and magic, so yeah, everything is trash.
It's called the vampire counts cause only the vampires count
@@ambifira hahaha this is genius!!
9:28 "They won't work unless they have some sort of edge"
*Is literally a dwarf with a massive hammer*
They were doomed from the start, weren't they?
The blunt truth, hammers don't have enough edge
@@Ivian1000 Dark Elves stole all the edge in the War of the Beard from both dwarfs and high elves. Although they inadvertedly created the Nagarythe helves, who followed in their edgy footsteps.
Truth is, the game was rigged from the start.
yep hes right, tried them before and they suck
Fun Fact: in MP, the bolt thrower is still trash tier. Any instance you'd even consider taking a bolt thrower, you'll just take a cannon instead.
The bolt thrower has one niche and that is in Thorek's army. He can buff them to surpass great cannons and absolutely destroy any large entities and I always like to take one in his army in my dawi playthroughs. Otherwise I agree, its trash for any other dawi stack.
I know it's not what Legend is trying to analyze here so fair play to him, but watching MP matches really improved my ability to win tough battles in singleplayer at legendary/VH difficulty, especially since I prefer not playing optimally in the interest of having fun armies. Just thinking about how to prioritize damage dealing and whatnot.
I disagree. They are incredibly cheap for an artillery piece. For the price of 2 cannon, you can bring 3 of them, and price is extremely important in MP. If you're opponent can't field accurate artillery with more than ~350 range (like Tomb Kings or Norsca), you can field a couple of bolt throwers for a ridicolous low price and do just fine.
@@godmarilputente7460, you're now spending frontline or ranged DPS funds on protecting those bolt throwers, who are rarely, if ever, going to pay for themselves.
@@LordBruuh, yes MP. Because my dude said he wasn't sure about how they stack up in MP. My comment was to reinforce that they're still dumpster tier there too.
So glad to see love for organ guns, I love these things.
How can you not love them? They kill everything.
It is a very different unit type, but I do see similarities to the Ratling Guns for the Skaven. You cannot ignore those units shooting at you. No unit can.
@@Rakshiir When I use these guns, I put them in between thunderers, like a chevron formation.
The dwarves were one of my first factions I won a campaign victory with. I’m happy to go back to look for ways to play them better after this.
play as thorik spam quallers and grudes with his unit buffs u dont ever lose hell late game id just set up hit play and go afk come back the army im fighing would be dead lol
Same here, it was on Easy so not really something to brag about, but I got the Long Victory at turn 125.
Dwarfs having reliable, "do the work their supposed to do" non-flashy and non-overpowered units? Maybe sometimes CA hits the mark. ;)
See, thats why Dwarfs dont get any dlc and new units. They're good as is.
@@Grivehn but they are terrible at multiplayer and they only have one way of playing, if you just gave them anti infantry slightly faster slayers and a chariot, or a golem they could do another tactic except gun line, like Slayer charge, they would still be far from op and they wouldn't be as stale, plus with the powercreep after Warhammer 3 launches their roster is gonna fare worse and worse
@@alexd832 I read somewhere multiplayer was never a big success. I have thousands of hours in the game, but never even touched MP. There is no real incentive to play and for most player its simply doesnt worth the time investment to completely le-learn the game.
Also from the patches balancing MP is not a real priority. This is kind of confirmed by the total lack of features. We dont even have a ranked league or seasons.
Multiplayer is such a small niche, I doubt they would balance around that. Total war is, and always have been, a single player game.
@@Grivehn they're not really good as is. Their armies mostly are, but they still need some work in other areas. The hammer of grungni mod does a decent job at making their campaigns more interesting.
Also, I really wish they'd add an engineer lord.
rangers can sneak unto walls during sieges, allowing a beachhead as well as taking out enemies you normally can't reach due to wall and building obstructions.
Really useful early game, especially as belegar who has a hard time affording artillery
If you get them snipe, they also have a very easy time just walking up and picking units off the walls without ever getting detected.
@@Loj84 Yeah, the passivity of the enemy AI during sieges makes snipe ABSURD.
Does siedge sneaking work with night goblin archers? I suspect they don't have enough range to be not punished.
That is not how you are supposes to play.
@@nonyabizniz5239? There is no way we're "supposed to play". It's a single player game. We can play it however we want.
The appendix actually has a function, though. It helps to re-seed the gut bacteria in the aftermath of a serious prolonged gut evacuation situation that might leave the normal gut bacteria in shambles.
Neato, I've never heard that before. Only that the appendix is useful for immune system development in babies and very young children.
As a fan of the stunty ones, I have always put four Ironbreakers in my armies to protect my gun lines. It’s good to see Legend giving them some love as well.
Don't guns inflict tons of friendly fire in this case? I was using Ironbreakers in front of Organ guns and IB's were obliterated by friendly fire in every battle if I didn't micro Guns well. Since then - only heroes in front of any guns, Ironbreakers - to protect flanks.
@@alexeyalexandrov7583 You should micro the Organ Guns, don't fire on the enemy unit in melee, fire behind them, the shell arcs over your Dwarf melee unit and falls through the enemies.
@@alexeyalexandrov7583 Personally, I use 4 ironbreakers and 4 thunderers on the flanks in chevron formation (2 on each flank). Chevron not only stops friendly fire, it also lets your thunderers shoot into the side of the enemy, negating shields. Also, you can cover more space with less ironbreakers in chevron, which means you can bring more missile units.
In the center, I take a standard lord, a runesmith, and 2 thanes. 5 organ guns behind. Enemies clump up around the lord/heroes, and organ guns demolish them. 2 trollhammer torpedoes wherever I can put them without obstructing anyone for monsters, and an engineer back with the organ guns. Works great against most enemies. Skaven are rough, but you should try to take them out before they reach lategame anyway.
@@Loj84 Yep this is my late game army as well except I normally put my Thunderers in front of the Organ Guns as I find that the Organ Guns reliably shoot over the Thunderers due to them being well.... dwarfs and therefore short. It also allows them to tag team any monsters, large units or infantry that gets through the Heroes/Lord line into oblivion pretty quickly through focus fire and get easy flank shots on anything fighting the Ironbreakers. Add in a couple of flavour units as you see fit to fill it out (Trollhammers, Flame Cannons, Irondrakes, another Runesmith, Mournfang to take out Artillery, etc.) and you've got your Dwarf Doomstack.
@@leafsfan112233 that could work. Personally I think chevron formation is the best way to set up ironbreakers and thunderers. Also, two of your thunderers will be facing the center in that formation. Use your engineer to delay, and two thunderers + two trollhammers + organ guns will make quick work of anything that gets past the heroes.
I think a good addition to these types of roster video would be to add your go-to army while playing them ( early, mid, late game )
Yes sir
Love the tierlists big man
Hope you're doing well :)
Hopefully a Beastmen tier list comes soon. Love these videos, and all of the work you put in to all of your content, to try and make us less scrubby at the game. You are a LEGEND of Total War for sure!
When watching other faction ranking: praying for not to be trashed.
For dwarf: praying at least one unit to be trashed.
Why?
Didnt really have to pray. I was sitting here going, "Man bolt throwers are stupid. I hate them. Trash tier garbage dumb unit"
This is perfect, I just started a dwarf campaign and didn’t know what units were good. Thanks for the tips Legend!
I tend to use 2 cannons in most of my dwarf armies when going on campaign vs Empire or Skaven. I find I cannot reliably deal with enemy artillery which often has a longer range than the usual doomstack of organ guns. With 2 cannons, they are very long range and can basically trade with enemy artillery since using gyrocopters or vanguard units is hardly ever an option due to archers, gunners, ratling guns, slingers etc.
Same, but tbf i do agree with Legend's placement in the tier list, grudge throwers are good against any faction, while i tend to grab some cannons only if i'm not sure about my chances in terms of artillery superiority (So as you said Skaven and Empire) so i'd say grudge throwers being higher tier is fine
Cannons with the rune of seeking +
'going on campaign against Empire'... Sigmar would like to have a word with you.
they are still outranged by hellstorm rocket. dwarf is so bad against empire. The only possible way is to go full sniper rangers or full slayers
Did you try to use Morfang cav for this? Maybe a potential solution
This just in: Legend of Total War has ranked Slayers in B tier. In other news, pigs are now flying.
It's just Morghur or Malagor running around.
You sound better today Legend, really good to hear.
Daily livestreams especially when not feeling well sound so damned stressful and soul eroding. Recipe to just grind yourself down. Much prefer he take a much needed break to balance things especially if he still manages to churn out content like this that is quite enjoyable!
@@JB-xl2jc Agreed
I look forward to the prospect of a Dwarf vs Chaos Dwarf Lord Pack and the Dwarves finally get that last push they need especially Thunderbarges.
There is a thunderbarge mod, although it's definitely not perfect.
Seeing that Grand Cathay get their cannon hot-air balloons (I don't know what they are called xD), I look forward to seeing Thunderbarges for the Dwarves
dwarf vs chaos dwarf dlc is inevitable. it would be strange if we dont get one
@@michaelf6128well that didnt age well
Love these tier lists, ready for an empire one. You could also recomend some army comps at the end.
you want to mainly use missile units for empire as their other roster is underwhelming. crossbows for infantry, gunners for the monsters.
@@soldier22881 yeah bro i know, i mean he could generally recomend army comps. What he goes for in his armies beside doomstacks of course.
Love these tier lists and just about every other content you make. Keep it up Legend
I find a flying unit almost invaluable against enemy artillery, which can really wreck my infantry in the late game, if I don't deploy it. Especially hellcanons (you come across a lot of them during the legendary chaos invasion) and skaven artillery. In order to deal with them, I use one gyrobomber, but then again I play on normal battle difficulty, so it might not be worth to recruit it on hard or very hard.
I recommend ditching the bomber in favor of a single brimstone gyro unit. Extremely accurate, savages large units and deletes enemy artillery, and if none of them die, they replenish all health. Also cheaper and faster and dodges missiles better.
Bolt throwers are so weak on campaign, that I'll go as far as saying that it should be recruitable for dwarfs as a base settlement unit to get any use out of it. Cool idea now that I think about it.
Honestly the only way I would even consider getting them, and even then it's a stretch
On a siege battle I zoomed in and watched them fire on some blorcs and was dumbfounded as they hit a spot no bigger than a dime in-between each model in the unit of blorcs. Just watching them miss model after model when each bolt lands IN the unit of huge, nearly monster infantry left me in awe of how bad it was. I suppose at least it can hit goblin bosses standing on walls reliably enough... but so can quarrelers.
i really like this, it fits the theme of Dwarves being king of artillery if any small town can throw out a couple of these on a whim
Being able to hire slayers from anywhere is such a good change for Dwarves. In my last campaign they were great for fixing up my front line until I could get some replenishment
I think a Beastmen or Tomb Kings ranking would be really helpful because the additional work of recruiting certain unit in those races.
stalk/snipe ranger doomstack (with a thane) is prolly one of the funniest ways to play the game atm
Its really, really strong. Their range, fire rate and dmg is pretty insane and also they are fast enough to run away from most bad engagement. Only very heavily armored monsters can be a problem, but if you can stall just a bit usually even dinos and dragons go down fairly quickly. Also love to add just 1-2 artillery, so the AI rushes it with cavarly or 1-2 of their monsters just to get turned into a pincushion :D
I tried it, for some reason the AI sends units in the direction of the range fire even with invis rangers, and they will spot you at 80 distance then rush for the rangers. This is with lord & heroes fighting up front.
@@SilverforceX The AI cheats when it comes to stalking units. They are always aware of the rough direction where your hidden units are located.
@@SilverforceX it's because the AI knows you have more units, so they fan out looking for them. Ideally, you have your lord and heroes hidden in different parts of the map. Bring one out of hiding, the AI will all go over there. Put it in hiding and bring out another, the AI will go there, and you can drag them back and forth. Send in rangers wherever you want to pick them off along the way. As long as they aren't near a visible unit, the AI should ignore them completely.
Also, flying units can be a problem. They can often detect you even at max range.
"If Alith Anar was shorter" the doomstack
Love this format! Keep it up legend!
I'd put Quarrelers with great weapons in the trash tier. There is no way to be able to recruit those while not being able to get regular ones, so why would you ever recruit a worse unit that is more expensive? As far as I understand it, if you should never recruit a unit, it belongs in the trash tier.
I believe they have better melee stats than miners, which means there is a conceivable situation where you can treat them like lothern sea guard: a hybrid infantry unit to put on the edges of the formation.
Same. I would also put the Dwarf warriors with greatweapons under trash. You have Miners, who don't need a building and fulfill the same role (admittedly worse though) and you can always recruit the normal Dwarf warriors. So I don't really see a reason to recruit them. I would even think about putting the Hammerers under trash. At the stage you get them, there's so much stuff out there that just obliterates them that I would never recruit them over Ironbreakers; especially because at that tier, you have enough other ways to deal damage. Longbeards with gw do have charge defense and have thus an advantage the other two units (and the standard LBs) don't have, so I would leave them at C.
@@imakevideosandstuff1 Regular Quarellers are way better at that role, they have a shield and more MD. They only edge the 2h variant has over the regular one is slighly more melee attack and AP melee damage. I really can't think of a situation in which you would pay extra to have that over more MD and a shield.
@@InfamousT23584 Yeah, good point, I agree with that. For Hammerers I'd also add that they are very expensive, you can get the same staying power for around half the upkeep with other units.
For sure. Seeing them at B tier bugged me.
I know that sometimes it seems odd to you that people would value your opinions so highly, but I think the experience you have in telling info and opinion is really evident through these tier list videos. If a unit can speak for itself, you keep the explanation brief, when units are more complex or have a strange role, you go further with it. You've been doing this for years and it's showing, my dude. That's why we value your opinion.
Flame cannons really hit enemy melee units hard and lowers their leadership a lot when burning. I use 2 in my late game, in seiges they obliterate any units on walls and can arc over walls as well over coming organ gun limitations. 2 flame cannons and 3 organ guns i find melts the highest teir doom stack DE armies, apart from that they look so cool in battle effects in game always fun for me. Once had them buffed to 2500 damage per salvo with lord and engineer buffs..
Also with a rune of seeking they absolutely murder single entities too. And they have a very good rof
Yes. Organ Guns have to shoot straight, which can be a huge problem for certain terrain or sieges. lol
Yeah flame cannons are amazing against low leadership things in particulat.
I waited for this. Finally !!!
The dwarves need like ram cavalry, like the ones seen in The Hobbit.
Yes my man
There is mod, adding a few units similar to boar riders, and even Skyrider Thunderlords riding gryphs XD
Mournfang cavalry👀
Love the video. Hope your enjoying the rest
Good tier placing for sure! Like the video.
Legend will be in the Book of GRUDGES.
Again.
After this he will have his own special section in book.
Id say its best to ignore dwarfs like the autistic kid in school. But even that would be a grudging.
@@Grivehn question why are you going comment to comment trying to shit on dwarfs or trying to say they are super op?
Did a dwarf spit in your ale?
@@alexd832 Why are you following me? Lol. I made like 5 comments altogether. I thought that's what the comment section is for. But to reply I like Dwarfs in general. I like their playstyle and roster in the game. What I dont like is their AR being super op for no good reason other than that is how the game works (like ranged being allowed to shoot all their load on AR.). Plus their fans are annoying. They're not the worst race thematically, but they are brutally one-note, like Khorne. Its just how I see it anyway.
Really enjoyed this as I literally don't have a clue what's good when playing dwarves lol. Don't really play them much as I like magic
Thank you! I’m sure you didn’t do this just because I asked, nor that you even saw my comment…but I did ask and I appreciate your opinion about the game, the units and strategy! One thing about the Dwarf roster, as I am playing them right now, is how so slow it takes to grow a settlement. I’m past turn 120, playing in Vortex, and only now have a level 5 place. And yes I built growth buildings and I put the buff on growth when I’m not working on happiness. I only mention that here because, to me, it elevates the need for correct lower tier units, and decreases the higher tier. I certainly have been fighting against armies that have higher tier units than I, because the Dwarf growth is so slow.
thanks i was waiting for this sooo much legend! with empire out of the game,the dwarves are the only race left for me to play of the old world
I was expecting Quarrelers with great weapons and Hammerers to go into trash because of their redundancy. Great list anyway and very fitting for the dawi.
I would only have hammerers around to deal with the menace below, if I don't have slayers
I sure as well am not using my iron breakers for that lol
GW Quarrelers are decent as a garrison unit, that's about it. Hammerers can be decent in Thorgrim's army but pretty mediocre otherwise. I'm honestly surprised he didn't put GW Rangers into trash. They only have like 80 range and they're really finicky about hitting their ranged attacks (they're throwing axes and have a pretty bad projectile arc).
Yeah ironbreakers aren't great at protecting the backline from menace belows. Those blasting charges do not discriminate.
@@englishmuffein them dwarfes are just bearded rats anyways.
Legend, which unit do you prefer to hold the line:
Iron breakers
Or Yari Yashigaru?
Spartan royal guards
I havent watched the vid yet but im hoping ironbreakers rank high. I get theyre expensive and longbeards work too but theyre so good and fun to use. Before the enemy even gets to the line they get bombed.
In terms of tier yari is always the best but in terms of late game holding infantry Iron breakers
Noob it's clearly oda loooooooooong yari ashigaru
Give me my Triarii any day!
I’m curious about your wood elf tier list can’t lie. Love these vids lately keep it up 👍🏻
Thank you for covering one of my favorite rosters! I agree with all you said. I hope when Chaos Dwarves drop we see the Dwarves get some new units too.
Can't wait for empire and bretonia tier :D
I bet more than half of Bret roster will end up in the trash. Peasant Archers, catapults and flying cavalry A tier or doomstack. Rest is garbage.
I love the fact that the Bolt Thrower will probably be quite important once ogre kingdoms come out. If you fight them early they would all be large basically.
the bolt thrower on release did a specific job well, it was a large entity and lord sniper. it was so good at this that it was nerfed. so now they made it so bad at the one job it could do its now just a suuuper cheap artillery piece you use for crapstacks that need something to let it auto sieges.
@@Wildtrexkid I mean it sounds like your saying im wrong when were both of the same opinion. What im saying is that it will be a lot more useful when the ogres come.
Bolt Throwers are still terrible though, for some reason their accuracy is awful and their damage output suffers as a consequence. You're always better taking quarrellers/rangers as early game anti-large.
@@okupant880 i wasn't disagreeing, just adding on some more info regarding the Thrower ^^
@@thecommuterzombie its because it was so accurate before, it was a go to as a budget way to kill lords and SEM, so much so that it made Cannons almost unused PURELY because of the accuracy, 3/4 bolts hitting is more damage faster than 1 or maybe 2 cannonballs of 4 hitting a target. they nerfed the accuracy and damage a bit so it lost its even small niche as budget monster killer
been eagerly awaiting this tier ranking vid. Thanks so much legend
Been waiting on this list!
Can't wait for the vampire counts list.
Doomstack: skeleton warriors, skeleton spearmen
A: empty
B: empty
C: empty
Trash: all the other units xD
I'd say their whole roster is trash. Only range has any value in this game.
Legend: puts a dwarfen unit in the trash tier
Dawi: THATS GOING IN THE BOOK!
I mean it’s one that’s considered obsolete by them at least… only very poor dwarfs use them over a canon.
Love the tier lists really looking forward to them all !
keep it up legend, love these vids
Something stirs in the world edge mountains!!!!...........
(Its an organ gun firing)
One wrong put right
"Dwarf players tend to autoresolve." Yeah... I mean, either autoresolve or brain damage, there is no other way. I miss the trollhammer torpedo doomstacks though :'( I'm also absolutely not surprised you rank the bolt thrower as trash.
"Dwarfs have no speed." **laughs in Ogre cavalry** Thart's how I roll now! Deal with it!
They tend to autoresolve because their doomstacks can wipe out 2-3 enemy armies with like 5% loss. Only faction in the game without magic, gets best autoresolve because magic is nonexistent in AR. Seems legit for a fantasy game, innit?
@@Grivehn its unit stats. they get added up and compared. dwarfs have areas of big stat boosters such as armour which pad numbers in Auto, but in a battle doesn't really count for much. also in Auto the game assumes range units will use ALL of their ammunition so the power is also bumped by that. its one of the reasons vampire counts have such bad auto, cuz they are missing that missile boost.
@@Grivehn 1 from where do you have these data, 2 autoresolve flavors ranged builds, since dwarfs are mostly ranged it doesn't surprise me that the autoresolve is good, like many ranged factions 3 complaining about a faction autoresolve is ridiculous. It literally just damages the I.A and its nothing except a commodity, high elves and dark elves can easily get the most broken economy of all and put out 5 times the dwarfs armies should I therefore be angry at them? That would be simply moronic
@@Wildtrexkid Im aware of all that. But thanks for explaining regardless.
I like the explanations behind your logic. Thanks for that :)
As always great video legend, take care
Never thought of rangers as being doomstack material, and I would have put Ironbreakers in the doomstack for sure.
Looking forward to wood elf doomstack.
Oh yeah, bugmans rangers are low key op. Don't sleep on them!
Wood Elf Doomstack = Treemen
can you do a hero and lord teir list for every faction when your done please legend
Love these videos from you.
Love the tier lists, keep the them coming!
Once again, I'm asking Legend to please add heroes and their variants based on respective mounts and lores of magic to the tier list. As well as Ogre mercs. This is important because the value of these matter only within respect to the army list being tiered. And a hero on a mount can make a trash mount unit by itself into something even better - or not really at all.
Well dwarfs have neither mounts nor magic, so its not like it matters
@@alexd832 while that may be true for dwarf heroes, mounts do still matter for their lords. And it's more a point going forward. Already missing out on the elves and skaven where this stuff is significant.
@@StormEagle5 agree
Heroes would almost always be A-tier or doomstack. Doesn't really seem worthwhile to me.
@@Loj84 Sure if you're thinking of an infinite hero cap and economy with time to fish for traits. But consider that sometimes heroes are more useful somewhere else than in a stack.
legend put gyro bombers in c tier so they dont get nerfed. 200IQ thank you cheese lord
cant wait for the eventual tier list of every unit at the same time :D
I basically just finished a nice long Dawi campaign and here's Legend making me want to start one up again.
Cathay tier list when?
*didn't put every unit in the doomstack tier*
Yep. Into the Book of Grudges you go.
I was just about to start a belegar game this is great! thanks legend!
These tier rankings are spot on!
My biggest problem with the dwarfs is that they can't clean up fleeing enemies after the battle is won.
That's what the Ogre cavalry and Yoked Carnosaur are for. Add the Strolla's Rune to them, and they can each get above 90 speed.
@@Famousagentman Yoked Carnosaur? Never seen them anywhere.
@@steffent.6477 Special unit only available when playing as Thorek Ironbrow. He's the newest legendary lord for the Dwarfs. You can get it pretty early on, and it's unbreakable, anti-large, and a good, fast monster unit. Perfect for acting as a hammer to smash foes against the incredible anvil that is Dwarven infantry lines.
If you like playing as the Dwarfs, and haven't played Thorek yet, I would recommend it. He's easily the strongest Dawi lord to date, and starting as him lets you pick up faction wide bonuses that make the other lords quite a bit stronger when you confederate them.
@@Famousagentman Found him. Can I recruite only one?
@@steffent.6477 Yeah, basically. I wish we could recruit more as well, but the fact that we can do it at all is pretty amazing.
me: clicks 4 of every 5 units in my army
them: QUARRELERS!
Awesome list as usual.
Loving these. Chaos tier list next!
Rangers are Tier 3 and Tier 1 for Clan Angrund, silly Legend how dare you forget something/s
Feel like bolt throwers should be recruited from the settlement at t1 or t2. It would give them some use as a super convenient siege attacker. Also, it would mean you could take a small settlement In a province then hire a lord and a few of these to act as a siege attacker for an army or rangers to take the rest of the province. They kill towers well out of range of any wall mounted missile unit so they would see some value in manual sieges that way.
It would have to be at T2, and even then that is still super bloody strong.
@@Shank039 we're talking about a race that has one of the worst economies in the game. Has no access to real magic, Poor access to heroes, and extremely slow growth. I doubt giving them easy access to a sub t1 piece of artillery will make them overpowered lol. I'm just ready to spam together a miner bolt thrower stack and get good with it for when grimgor sends one of his 74 armies at a random, Undefended minor settlement in the dead center of my territories.
@@gabrielblondet692 I mean not really, their economy isn't that bad and their heros are pretty strong, sure not having normal magic is a drawback but Rune magic is still good. The dwarves aren't a weak race, they are actually extremely strong, the issue is they have a difficult start position that gets worse on harder difficulties. When something is too strong in the early game the solution shouldn't be to buff the things surrounding it, because that throws everything else out of balance. The bolt thrower isn't even that bad of an artillery, it is just unnecessary as the grudge thrower is better. So to make the bolt thrower more desirable it should just be cheaper, that would be a more balanced middle ground.
@@Shank039 Cost really isn't the issue. Pacing is. Unless it has an upkeep of like 5g there would still be no reason to recruit one. It's still eating a slot in an army that could be taken by a superior unit (one that is already very cost effective). If it were accessible much earlier (and without an additional building) it would atleast see some play as a fill in until you secure your grudge throwers. I'm betting the only reason people ever recruit them is for Belegar's quest. I usually find a few in some confederation armies and run them over to him. I do agree that they aren't that bad once you play with them for awhile. Shooting along theblength of an enemy unit with one at medium distance will decimate most low tier units. It's just a bit tricky to position them so they shine.
Love these videos! Thank you!
Off topic, but what would people think about making attached armies, say a limit of 2 together. They could operate like the waaagh armies in how they are merged and move together, but would simply cost what they cost. The unit representation on the campaign map could just be the primary lord, and a smaller unit standing next to them. Maybe put a 3% campaign movement penalty to represent organization and logistic difficulties. Ambushes could be more difficult with this army, and ambushers could try to target one of the armies, but the second would join the battle after some time.
Awesome, more tier lists pls.
I have never gotten a bolt thrower. I get rid of them if I confederate an army that has any. The flame cannon, iron breakers, flamethrowers, and hero army is my favorite to make.
haha true, my favorite race is the dawi and I never used a bolt thrower
I feel like monsters would shit on that. Irondrakes aren't that great lategame anyway because of the lack of AP (fantastic early-mid tho). Why not bring at least some trollhammers instead?
@@Loj84 you can modify it however you like. I just enjoy the fiery theme of it. I won't say it's the best army I use but it is my favorite.
@@nraah4707 fair enough
I'm honestly surprised how hammerers didn't go in the trash tier.
They are inferior in terms of holding the line compared to other units of the same tier and don't deal enough damage to make back their cost.
I would never recruit them on very hard battle difficulty unless they are magically the least trash option available.
Likely because they're still stupid hard to kill and can last a long time due to leadership. They're finicky to use tho, they get endless missile aggro, but if u can put them behind the iron breakers, and bring them up when the front lines clash, they're pretty good
They're also pretty good vs cavs too, which is honestly the only other option since I hate slayers. Slayers die in droves when they eat the charge. Iron breakers can do the job but if u need to actually kill a unit in melee like heavily armored cavs, lords, heroes or monsters, they're fine
At the end of the day, the biggest weakness is fast moving, small single entity units but units like Phoenix aren't your main matchup
Thanks mate - that was super useful as its current and set for campaign/solo. Any thoughts on Lords etc would be great. Was watching your thane based defence on a few campaigns and liking it - does it still work?
I love Dwarfs, thanks for the tier list :D
Honestly I'd put Hammerers in trash tier. They rarely hold the line well and I've never been able to even beat other factions average melee units with them. For a high tier unit they just under perform in any category. I'd rather have warriors or long beards even in the late game than hammerers.
Yeah, they belong there in the same way in which organ guns don´t belong in the doomstack tier. It always makes sense (at least to me) how he rates them, however, he has several different ways of looking at them and rating them, and they can be fairly inconsistent. By the rule by which he put organ guns in doomstack tier, he also should have put ironbreakers and some other units there.
Not to crap on him or his rating process, it isn´t really possible to be 100% precise or objective with this sort of thing. It is after all largely about how you feel about any given unit, and the lists he produces are pretty damn good, especially when you consider his explanations for his ratings.
Love the tier lists legend!
well, not suprised but interesting! Thank you for your work, Legend!
This guys Total War videos are legendary.
*Sees Name
"Yep, Checks out.
Please do the next one!
I am liking and commenting under every video for the algorithm
So JUST DO IT
love these vids! Empire next?
Gotta agree about the Slayers. They're incredibly useful in emergency situations as you've said, and typically my strategy with them involves putting them at the front line and immediately charging them in to do as much damage as possible while missle units attack from behind, and the main units remain relatively unharmed until it counts. Slayers have saved me in the eleventh hour many, many times.
Great list. I’d love to see empire or vampire counts next.
love these tier lists. Could we see a wood elves or beastmen tier list? No rush Im sure you'll get to it eventually
Oh this was the one I waited for!
I was looking for this 2 days ago!!
As good as always. Still wanting that empire list!! 😩
Love the Tierlists, I'd like to see Empire or Tomb Kings next. I agreed with almost all of it, I knew early on that Bolt Throwers were going in trash and was skeptical about the default miners (but you made a good case). The only one I really disagree with is Gyrobombers ( I think they should be B), you can get a lot of utility out of their bombs. I was surprised by Rangers with Greatweapons (mostly as I know you are quite good at using hybrid infantry) but then again I never use them so what do I know? I'd be curious to see how they perform compared to Longbeard variants.
What a great video!
Yeah flamethrower Irondrakes are amazing. I was initially put off by their low range, but the sheer DPS they dish out to anything that gets in range is fantastic. They're reasonably tanky, too. You do have to be careful with friendly fire though. I find the best situation is when a bunch of enemy melee units are bunched around one of your lords/heroes, so you can roast them all at once. Lastly, the Miners w/ charges and the Ironbreakers' ranged attacks are really neat, but you also have to be careful of friendly fire. No matter which direction it's from, if they're throwing their charges at an enemy unit that's engaging one of yours, you'll always end up chewing up your own unit too unless it's single-entity.
good video man
I do enjoy these tier lists. See if you can do a Vampire Counts or Vampire Coast one next.
We miss you man. Hope your hay fever is gone and ppl don't give you crap when you're back. Have a nice rest!
Great list Legend! What faction will be next? Would love to see the wood elves!
Would love for you to add the Ogres to your roster evaluation, every faction has access to them, but every faction uses them to a different extent. (maybe the cav only)