@@RHINO_Mk_II I always found miners break easily to just orc boyz, even with missile support. That 70 armor doesn't seem to amount to much (somehow?). When we talk about chaff, miners are good, but they are pricey IIRC (compared to other chaff from other races). My bet would be on chaos marauders (and normal marauders for Norsca), they are actually a pretty good unit all around, and perform decently in both MP and Campaign.
@@todalio9238 Yeah, for their cost marauders are very good, they really do feel like the backbone of an army, they will rout after taking damage, but not as easily as skavenslaves.
I agree! Removing RoR would make this interesting for sure, and the other comparisons would be awesome too (although harder to define what's best in those cases... Would it be which archers are best vs other archers? Which artillery is best vs other artillery?)
@@victuz They are going up against guys that are almost twice their cost here tbf :/ I just take swordsmen or spearmen to hold the lines while I get handgunners to do AP damage instead of GS
@@Beowulf-eg2li CA made WH2 too ranged reliant, that's why greatswords and other melee damage dealers need to receive a buff in WH3, they are supposed to shred the enemy lines even if they receive damage themselves, not to perform almost the same as swordsmen.
Who would win: Elves who have trained with their weapons for literally thousands of years, honing their weapon skills and sadism over all this time, driven by hatred for everyone who aren't them or some really fighty fungus
This is hilarious but sadly Idk if it's true. The Greenskins are fungal humanoids in 40K but I don't think they are in Fantasy. Still though millennia of skill, seeming racial psychosis (like their 40K Dark Eldar version), religious fanatacism and hate, etc... versus "Time fo a foight boyz! WAAAAAAAAGHH!" 😆
@@ProneOyster You could be right. I'm just saying I know for sure that they're fungus people, even growing full Orkoids (they're Orks in 40K, but Orcs in FB) from mushrooms, in the 40K setting. Although I'm a lot more familiar with that setting than with Fantasy I am pretty sure about this, because the Black Orcs that are only in Fantasy were bred/created as a slave warrior caste by the Chaos Dwarves before rising up and leaving. And in 40K the various space Greenskins don't breed at all, and instead procreate by releasing fungal spores especially upon dying.
@@ProneOyster Okay I just looked it up. In the Skarsnik novel from Black Library they mention that Night Goblins come from spores, but that could be due to this type of Goblin species being obsessed with and or symbiotic with fungi. In the past editions (1st through 3rd) of Fantasy female Orcs existed and had models. There were also Half Orcs in those early editions. And apparently early 40K had mentions of something called "Femboyz" as an Ork mutation, but it wasn't ever gone into and that was way back when Space Marines weren't huge and were just buff guys in power armor. As for in Fantasy Battle there were female and half Orcs in the past, but they haven't been mentioned in a while. And Games Workshop hasn't for sure said that the Greenskins (besides the mention about specifically Night Goblins in that one story novel) are fungal like in 40K. But honestly they've done A LOT of stream lining in both settings, so maybe it's now an unstated but assumed thing. And if you're wondering, I used 1d4chan mainly for the info. As well as trying to double check with some other wikis... This is one of the problems with GW. They like to retcon to remove things, but then don't clearly say what the deal is now. I get why they've changed and removed certain things over the years, but they could do a better job with the clarifications. Although... no info is better than the past canon of prior 40K editions written by Matt Ward. "Our Spiritual Liege" indeed. 😝 What's the name of the site you used? There's a few fan wikis, and while I think I know which one you mean I'm not 100% sure. And I'd appreciate cause I like reading the articles on those sites. ☺
I'm betting that a lot more RoR's ended up on this list than they should've. Part of that RoR bonus is being buffed up to max veterancy, which in my immediate assumption as a VamPirate player is why Hlaberd DG were here instead of standard ones.
Wouldn't really change much would it now that we know the results right? The fact that the Chosen with Great Weapons are at the top of the list already even with RoRs against them just shows that they're the best damage dealing infantry in the game. It'd be nice to see where regular Black Orcs or Phoenix Guard end up but the rankings by faction would probably end up really similar.
@@ktvindicare Maybe somewhat similar, but there would be fewer halberd infantry. It would also make more sense for players who primarily play the campaign :)
The_Drop Bear I’m pretty sure swordmasters beat keepers of the flame. Swordmasters are disgustingly good and in my own testing do better than keepers of the flame..
The_Drop Bear Chosen are terrifying in the vortex armies that spawn. They usually have at least 6 chevrons and beat the brakes off of anything you send at them bar swordmasters.
This was great fun to watch AND interesting, too. Thanks for putting in the effort. As one who doesn't play PvP I'd love to see a "no Regiments of Renown, all abilities allowed" version of this. I imagine that's how a great many players will experience melee infantry. Not wanting that to sound like a complaint, however. Just a "campaign play" variant. Cheers
Either excluding RoR, or ONLY having RoR. It felt really awkward to see the greatswords fight against RoR, when they have their own RoR version of themselves.
I have found that standard Depth Guard are an amazing unit for killing trash. You dont put them against top tier units, for that you use mobs backed up by range. You send your depth guard in to rapidly destroy trash because they regen and kill so quickly. You need the walls taken while they are defended by spearmen or swordsmen? Depth guard will get the job done.
so u put ROR vs normal unit without giving them max vet ? well that seems unfair and screw the result for ROR always, try max chevron, i think some result will change for the non ROR units (especially the sword masters)
It would definitely affect the outcome, but how often do you see people bringing in fully leveled elite units to a match? Sure it would tell you who is most capable of being the best of the best, but it wouldn't tell you who is more likely to win in more common multiplayer battle situations.
I agree with englishmuffein. Max chevrons would up the price considerably, way too far for multiplayer so what you see here is the most likely circumstance.
@@rovers141 if I'm not wrong they would cost similar to ROR phoenix guards (1650 vs 1685) and cost equalized (3 silver chevron) sword master beat krimson killers (just tested) , so no u should account with vet cause ROR are already max vet if there was an option to have them at base vet it would be better for testing , but alas we are stuck with this, so we better do fair and optimal tests (or exclude ROR to remove this problem)
Also, realistic battlefield duels isn't the point of this video. The point is to figure out which infantry unit is the best. So they really should've been upgraded to max veterancy.
100% they cop a significant chunk of damage from not being braced, which also means they lose their Martial Mastery earlier. My guess is that they may have placed 4th or even 3rd if they had been braced.
@Meba Maybe, BUT they'd perform much better. Chosen barely beat them. I think the Keepers would take that match up. The Executioner unit will certainly win but it would be a little closer. Peak Gate will be 50/50 and I think even Krimson Killers will be razor thin as well.
Not using charge defence is just as dumb as not using charge bonus. Either walk all units into combat without charges to compare straight melee or let defenders brace and chargers charge.
@Meba True, but at least it isn't deliberately handicapping one and not the other. I'd rather the defenders brace and the chargers charge. Only time a defender should charge in a test like this is if they're facing other defenders.
And then a little update came out that gave the wood elves not only an incredibly broken new lord, but perhaps the single best infantry in the game as well as one of the top cavs plus budget dragon ogres, thank you CA I love the wood elves 😊
3:43 Excluding Ironbrakers?! This was rigged from the start. That goes into the book of grudges! Also, suscribed to your channel. Nice videos. Although more dwarfs is always a good idea.
This was an infantry unit comparison, and ironbreakers are definitely infantry units, but they are wise enough to have bombs with them. Should have let them into the brawl.
@@beerkenstein did you watch the video? He did let them into the brawl and they lost to the hammerers when using his criteria, hence they didn't earn their place in the big tournament
@@houndofculann1793 Did YOU watch it? He disabled their bombing skill when doing so. Shouldn't have, they are op infantry in-game, especially because they use bombs too. Dark elves and tomb kings also get a racial advantage, so this decision was rather subjective for me.
What if keepers of the flame didn't charge though? That would have activated their charge defence against all and maybe they would have performed better.
Standardised tests like this will always have a degree of inaccuracies such as this. In order to get orderly results via consistent testing methods, certain competitors will always lose out due to being used in an incorrect context or having their advantages nullified. Still an interesting test, but the results must never be taken at face value and called absolute.
non ROR units belongs to the Swordmasters. I also think he did this with units usable in multiplayer, and the special greatsword unit is a campaign only unit.
@@jonathangwahlstedt I replied to another comment of yours with a link to a video similar to this. That test has been done already. Swordmasters win more often than they lose, in a very close fight mind you, but they still win.
I feel like the Bloody Reaver Deck Guard shouldn't get any kind of buff because that isn't the point of their faction. When they're used in combination with their ranged units (the literal strength of their faction), they're fantastic which is why they're supposed to be bad in a vacuum situation like this.
Same argument for Greatswords or Elf Wardens, etc. He said it himself, the ones that did the best are the damage dealers of their army rosters. Keepers of the Flame surprised me with how well they did. I imagined them to simply be the anvil that you hammer Silver Helms against.
@@thesuperginge1348 kotf are deathdealers, they mow down large so well... but yeah - they are the anvil. fix it with keepers, murder it with sisters is my general approach to elite enemy units.
It doesn't really matter what the point of their faction is, the fact is that they are way overpriced for their usefulness. So either they need a buff, or they need to reduce their price for multiplayer purposes. Otherwise it's just a waste of money.
They are not fantastic. I'd rather say that they are pretty useless (as well as their non-RoR variant). There are just too little applications, when you should use these over zombo-halberds. I won't say _never_ bc who knows. Still, for me personally it is quite close to that.
Swordmasters beat Chosen GW more times than they lose in a straight 1v1 fight. Martial Prowess and the bonus vs inf with a larger unit size gives them the edge.
I'd like to see how they'd stack up in a 2v1 situation, vs some of those more expensive units. They're close to half the price of most of the winners here.
Zerk, do a trial of anti-large infantry against different types of large monsters/monstrous infantry, comparing cost per unit and how many units needed to bring down the monsters.
Honestly though, lizards don't need a super strong infantry unit. I would be a bit bothered if they had the strongest infantry unit on top of everything else they have.
@@rovers141 Do they need it no. Should they have it probably. Temple Guard are meant to be that they'll fuck up basically anything you send them at unit. That's both in TT and in the lore as well. They had a very short list of elite infrantry units (that wasn't even always a Guarantee) they would lose to on TT and they would bleed those units to basically no impact after fighting them. My biggest fear for the Lizardmen was Temple Guard being like regular Halberd Elite infrantry where they couldn't compete with other Elite Infrantry. Sadly that fear was justified and instead of the well rounded super soldiers we got something else entirely.
@@lastdefenderofxhotl i mean in the lore slayers can solo dragons and trolls without help, so its a give and take i suppose. The dinos already have rexes on roids and bodybuilding crocs, if you add blender infantry they'll be unstoppable
@@p2jack2000 In lore certain slayers can solo dragons. Albeit most of them will die trying which is the whole point. A congregation of slayers like a decent number of them together could probably kill a dragon with solid losses but again that's the whole point. The troll angle is weird because the gulf between the average troll and the average dwarf is probably only like 4 to 1 as in it would probably take 4 Dwarfs to kill 1 troll. In the case of the average slayer it's more like 2 to 1. The lack of armour is surprisingly beneficial because of the extra speed for evading which is kind of a necessity unless you've got really good gear, and the willingness to die makes for more risky attacks and increases chance of instant kills. A lone normal slayer killing a normal troll isn't the likely outcome but it's certainly not irregular. The issue with Temple Guard is they're just as skilled as their other elite infrantry counterparts. Yet unlike their counterparts are also 9 foot tall Lizards who can crush "small" boulders in their bare hands, and are remarkably fast and well coordinated with natural fighting and killing instincts. That's ignoring that just on equipment alone they beat every other elite infrantry because they the dexterity and strength to use a armour piercing 2 handed polearm in 1 hand and a (very big) shield at the same time. Like logically they should just never lose.
Things that invalidate this test: - Only the RoR have rank 9. - Artificial testing constraints deny proper unit usage. Without equal ranking, the entire thing falls flat at the outset. In addition; units are denied their charge defences and activateable abilities, and thus are forced to not work properly. For removal of inherent charge defence to be fair practice you would also have to deny all inherent charge bonuses and instead used move orders to enter combat. Blasting charges are debateable but intended to function as charge disruption (1 volley, then disable to have time to brace). It should not invalidate Ironbreakers. Either way, you could have disabled auto-fire to remove that capability. If you also want to deny their charge defence you can hold ALT while clicking the attack to send them on a normal melee charge.
Just when u think you know everything about everything in the game, zerkovich comes in, drop kicks u off of ur high horse , and here u are learnin again. Great vid zerk, hoping for a new total war warhammer stream . Keep it up bearded god
One thing that has always bugged me is certain units have the same or near same amount of armor as Greatswords when they shouldnt. GG being one of the offenders. That was a key element of the GS was they are special hand picked soldiers who never take a backward step against the foe and are armed with dwarf forged plate and blades. The best of the best with the best equipment. On par with Chaos Warrior and Gromril armor. Orks, undead, elves... best they could do was heavy armor a whole grade below.
@@r.j.macready Most Empire units I feel are underwhelming at best. You really have to mix them all together pretty well to get a passable army. They are well rounded but none really stand out for being amazing.
Which is why the Empire is my favorite faction. You can't just send an unsupported unit and expect it to win. You always have to use combined arms. This is also how they played in the tabletop.
Karl Franz leaves the chat Also I really like this type of videos, will you make another competition, for example with cavalery, or maybe heroes, lords...?
The fact that the Chosen actually did so well against special tier units. Is REALLY GOOD. I imagine they would beat the base tier versions then. (regular hammers, Executioners, and Black Orcs)
Nope. Cuz RoR units are nowhere near as good as standard units at full xp... with a few exceptions. Should have just excluded RoR units since they are so wonky.
Loved this. Seeing the top-tier infantry duke it out is great. Maybe we should do the same for the lowest-tier melee infantry each faction can field! In that case, would you do number of units vs same number of units like in this video, or would you do money spent vs. money spent? I think either would be interesting.
I always forget about the killing power of the Greenskins. I figured the High Elves were gonna win because... Well, you know. They're High Elves. They're broken haha If you could, find out which anti large unit is best by facing them off against large units and see how many of that single type of large unit they can take out.
I'd love to see this with ranged infantry & melee cavalry - same test conditions should work with ranged as it'd let the longer ranged units get in an extra volley or two & obviously cavalry charging is perfectly natural
I did the test too (but with less units for each faction, just the strongest i was feeling !) and yeah Crimzon are amazing ! I hope the ''debug'' with splash attack will not nerf them. Amazing type of video, want more of that :)
Zerkovich for the past years: "Use Tactics! What Unit is the most useful always depends on the matchup and the situaton! Use unit abilities wisely!" Me: ... Zerkovich: "WE GONNA IGNORE ALL THAT AND TEST WHO'S THE BEST WITHOUT TACTICS, WITHOUT USING ABILITIES AND WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATOIN FOR SITUATINS OR MATCHUPS!" Me: Weird flex but ok
Tactics are about getting the best out of your units and out of a situation. Knowing how your units handle a situation without using any tactics is a great thing. You know now if you can leave your infantry in the fight, or how urgent it is to help them before they unevitably fail.
@@TeteBruleeFR Not really true. He was running units with Expert Charge Defence headlong into charge bonus masters instead of bracing them, and completely disregarding one of the strongest melee units in the game because he didn't know how to stop them from using their charge disruption (Ironbreakers). He also gave regular units 0 ranks while the RoR all start with max ranks. That's not really "no tactics", that's plain bad tactics and arbitrary handicapping.
@@carlchristianlindalen9311 I agree, there is a lot of room to improve the fairness of thoses duels... Keeper of the flames should have remain standing in the matchup where their charge bonus is lower than the attacking unit's (so most of them really)... And some units are cruelly missing, like the sword masters who should have still easely make up to the top 10 of the bracket. Also, I m pretty sure that even tho the council gards lost the the pack, they would have won a fair bit of matchup the plague pack lost... There is also an argument to make all non ROR gold3 chevron to make the fight more fair...
I love that you made test really well. 5vs5 not 1vs1 as many tests on UA-cam. Also all vs all not elimination tournament that relly highly on luck in 1vs1 fights.
*then uses the iron breakers and there charges or as a imperial player uses hand gunners and other shits to destroy them before they even get close.* nope.
Vincent Celeste this is a melee comparison, ofc artillery and range will beat them before they even get close, how dense must one be to even say things like that on a pure melee comparison video...
Agreed. I want to see more videos like this! Compare stats! The nerd in me wants to get those sweet nerd gains. This is like steroids for my inner nerd
I wonder, where the not-ROR units at the highest level of three gold chevrons? Im surprised of the result because lvl 0 swordmasters of oeth mop the floor with lvl 0 phonix guard, but using the keepers of the flame would surely give them the edge. And in others tests, at lvl 0, swordmasters of hoeth were hands down the best.
@@samarkand1585 But that gold cost is priced into every ROR unit anyway... I think it would've been better to just give every vanilla unit three gold chevrons (and include that when weighing their relative costs), otherwise for a lot of these match-ups, it's just a confirmation that chevrons make units better.
@@caret_shell A rank 9 Chosen GW costs almost 1950 gold. Best unit strength wise or not, nobody would ever use a rank 9 chosen GW in multiplayer. Rank isn't always priced into the RoR unit, if you take a regular chaos warrior at rank 9 and the mirror guard (RoR chaos warrior), the regular chaos warrior is over 100 gold more expensive.
@@joeb1955 Huh, good to know. I had assumed that every ROR unit was the base unit at rank 9, plus potential bonuses and powers and other stat adjustments, and that the cost would be commensurate with that. Nonetheless, I don't find much of interest in pitting vanilla greatswords against other factions' ROR best of the best. Players might not buy rank 9 melee units in multiplayer, but they also wouldn't buy ROR halberd depth guards to use as front line fodder, and they were here anyway.
Just to comment on what you said about questioning how good the depth guards would be against, say, Kholek Suneater, you're really underestimating how good their +30 VS Large makes them. If they use their ability and Kholek isn't equipped with Starcrusher, they win with about 60% health left, which is crazy good value for them. If they don't use their ability and Kholek does have Starcrusher, they leave with about 35% health left, which even then gives them good value. They have a place in the top best anti-large units, they're just really not a good anti-infantry unit. At all.
kind of the same with the Keepers of the Flame, that they got so high in an infantry brawl while also being a terrifying presence for any large unit on the battlefield does say a lot too
Because in a vacuum, they aren't good vs infantry. This is a vacuum test. On their roster, they are designed to put the brakes on anything that is too big or too fast to be mowed down by ranged units before reaching their lines, which they do perfectly.
Keep up the good Warhammer videos mate, love them. Your voice is pretty soothing to listen too, not in a weird way but it's relaxing whilst watching the vid! Thanks again man. ❤
@@Zerkovich Should have given them all rank 9 then and also let defender types use their Expert Charge Defence + use any/all active abilities, even blasting charges. Btw: You can disable auto-fire and/or hold ALT while attacking to avoid using blasting charges.
Question is, do you allow monsterous cav? If not, I don't think reiksguard will do as well as a lot of others. If so, do you go back and retest infantry with monsterous infantry?
Okay, how many want to see norgrimlings ironbreakers vs. krimson killers? You dq'd them because of their unit ability, but other units' abilities didn't disqualify them. And in terms of a functional head-on collision you see in a real game, ironbreakers usually get off 1 or 2 grenades before the fight starts.
you should have included swordmasters as well, i am pretty sure they beat chosen(gw) with the latest health buff.Just because they lost to Keepers of the flame doesn't mean they would do worse in this list,probably better actually.
Aye, I've seen Swordmasters beat Chosen GW as well. Don't know if it is consistent, but they can. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't get a health buff, but a leadership buff of +5.
@@warhammerchaosgod swordmasters phoenix guard executioners and black guard all got +4 hp per model "+300 hp total" 2 patches ago as a buff intention was to make elite elf infantry slightly less fragile to artilery
chosen GW beats swordmasters like 7 out of 10 times. swordmasters used to be better but chosens got buff too. From that moment chosens wins most of the time
I really liked the video, but I'm not too happy with the use of the regiments of renown. Yes, they are good, but as you depicted your test, it's illogical : they're strong, but you can have only ONE of version of these units at the same time (multiplayer or campaign). Thus, a matchup where you have 5 of them in the same army is completely impossible. It may have been better to exclude them from this theme, and give them a dedicated spotlight in another video.
Seems to be a common theme. No way of testing is going to be perfect. I was just trying to answer the question of 'Who can beat everyone in melee?'. Maybe I'll do it without RoR in ze fewcha.
I don't think this test was about putting multiple RoR's in an army, but seeing which unit you could throw at another unit and reliably win an engagement in without any support, making it closer to the "best" melee infantry, across factions.
I was kind of disappointed we didn't have any X > Y > Z > X to create a tie at some point. Seeing the first place vs. last place slaughter at some point would have been interesting too.
@@TheSpencer1000 You could also go for master necromancer+skeleton warriors. That's a extremely cheap (in the campaign) and still effective army, especially when it's not countered.
Would've been more on the fair side to put Carroburg Greatswords instead of regular ones, if RoR-s were allowed I don't see why Elector Count units weren't. Other than that, great video, subscribed.
@@Zerkovich That would be an excellent follow up video. I'm very interested in seeing who's the best as bog standard infantry. Maybe the Chosen will regain their number one spot.
@@Zerkovich The problem is there are no regiments of renown for the best infantry units in some cases. So since there's no sword masters regiment of renown, you use keepers of the flame, but rank 9 swordmasters beat the keepers handily. In the case where a faction doesn't get a regiment of renown for their best infantry unit, they should have been rank 9. Chosen that are rank 0 vs rank 9 elite RoR seems off.
CA group video chat discussing the plans for balancing TWW2: 'Ok so we're gonna have to test the waters and see what units may need a few twe-' 'Done already.' 'W-what?' 'It's done already. Give the Blood Reaver Deck Guard the buff.' *shows video* 'This man... him and everyone else involved are doing God's work.'
A few quibbles: 1) It would have been trivial to disable the passive bonuses on the DE/TK; just bring massive numbers of additional 'troops', and have them sit in the background with the lords, doing nothing. Then the bars, which are affected by size of entire army, would have been drastically slower to charge, likely not reaching at all. 2) In line with 'using melee infantry correctly', the dwarves wouldn't charge in; why disable their (and others') charge defence against all ability in such a manner? Also, leaving out the passively active Ironbreakers' "special weapon" is pointless, since it's not an ability they are lacking *and* you don't have to activate it, so it's not equivalent to activated skills. 3) Using RoR units seems kinda' like a cop-out, since they're specifically unique units who in many instances are special *because of* skills/abilities which need activated. 4) ignoring special abilities (including waagh) means that this test makes no sense, since those abilities exist and are part of what makes the units strong to begin with. They should have been used to advantage. 5) this would have been a more valid test if each race brought a 'best 3x units' or somewhat similar, since many of these units aren't actually good at what they're doing. Other units within the roster would have proven more effective in some instances. Basically, in other words, the rules were set arbitrarily to benefit some but not all, the units were used to disadvantage for those races which are defensive, and not enough of the available units were tested to prove that this lineup holds true. More importantly, a large number of these units were RoR, which don't belong in a standard melee infantry test; they belong in a separate test of RoR.
Originally wouldn't really have expected the Killaz to beat the Blades of the Bloodqueen, but if you think about it, it kind of makes sense. In most cases, having fewer but stronger models wouldn't neccessarily be advantageous but in this specific matchup it actually is helping the Killaz because it denies the Dark Elves their Murderous Mastery for longer, simply because they take out less models, and the splash does compensate for the lower model count. One thing people tend to underestimate with Krimson Killaz and Black Orcs in general is that even though they don't have the greatest model count, they have a metric fuckton of health for an infantry unit. I mean, the Krimson Killaz have more health overall than the Blades, even though they have 15 less models.
Couldn’t he have used the iron breakers for the dwarfs and just held alt when starting the attack so they didn’t use their explosives and just melee? Feel like they might have come out on top
“We wontz ta fight dem iron-stunties and find out whoze really DA BEST! Just do wot we’z usually do - get a pack o’ gobbos to catch all da splody fings wif deir teef! Den, WE charge in!” - an anonymous Crimson Killa, giving his impression after the tournament-winning bout vs the Blades of the Blood Queen.
I would be very interested to see a new matchup of only regular units, no regiments of renown. I only do campaigns (honestly im too lazy to learn to micro well enough for multiplayer lol) so that would be far more beneficial for us simple campaign folk!
Marauder Champions are REALLY good units. Like, as far as the factions go, taking into consideration who gets what unit options to buy from, getting 50+ Melee Defense on a 1000 cost unit with decent armor and hitpoints is amazing when you, as previously stated, take into account they have nearly any kind of monster type to choose from, to be the hammer for your Champion anvil.
Could you make some kind of tier list for each faction?, that would give you a lot of videos :3 Like the worst units and best units of a single faction in order of worst to best.
This is the closest thing to sports we have now.
Blood Bowl is great to watch if you crave sports and enjoy Warhammer haha
LMFAO true
sportsball sucks anyway unless you're playing it
Tell that to my Lobster Knife Fighting Pit.
@@VoermanIdiot you've clearly been utilising your time very well.
Now I kind of want to see the opposite, best weakest infantry;
Zombie VS Gobbos
Skavenslaves VS Peasants Mob
Skink cohort VS Dwarfs Miners
Yes.
Best tarpit unit.
My bet would be the Miners, good luck beating 70 armor with fodder tier infantry.
@@RHINO_Mk_II I always found miners break easily to just orc boyz, even with missile support.
That 70 armor doesn't seem to amount to much (somehow?).
When we talk about chaff, miners are good, but they are pricey IIRC (compared to other chaff from other races).
My bet would be on chaos marauders (and normal marauders for Norsca), they are actually a pretty good unit all around, and perform decently in both MP and Campaign.
@@ScurvyBoi I don't have Norsca DLC, so I kind of forgot about them.
I guess you are right.
@@todalio9238
Yeah, for their cost marauders are very good, they really do feel like the backbone of an army, they will rout after taking damage, but not as easily as skavenslaves.
Would love to see one without regiments or reknown, and would love to see this repeated for best monsters, best archers, arty, all that jazz!
I agree! Removing RoR would make this interesting for sure, and the other comparisons would be awesome too (although harder to define what's best in those cases... Would it be which archers are best vs other archers? Which artillery is best vs other artillery?)
Non RoR it's something like...
S Tier - Chosen GW, Hoemasters
A Tier - Executioners, Hammerers, Ironbreakers, Sisters of Slaughter, other Chosen
B Tier - Phoenix Guard, Black Guard, Temple Guard
C Tier - Greatswords, Grave Guard GW, Wildwood Rangers, Bestigors, Marauder Champions, Black Orks
D Tier - Depth Guard, Stormvermin, Tomb Guard, Foot Squires
@@OniGanon Black orcs D Tier??
@@ransomwisley2429 In a vacuum 1v1 without WAAAGH!, yes.
OniGanon ok I respect it 👏🏼👏🏼
Other factions : send our regiment of renowns
Empire : a spare greatsword regiment
I think the greatswords are a meme unit still because they were a meme in Medieval as well.
@@thomasdenney6898 why
@@Ahrone1586 They underperform for their cost.
@@victuz They are going up against guys that are almost twice their cost here tbf :/ I just take swordsmen or spearmen to hold the lines while I get handgunners to do AP damage instead of GS
@@Beowulf-eg2li CA made WH2 too ranged reliant, that's why greatswords and other melee damage dealers need to receive a buff in WH3, they are supposed to shred the enemy lines even if they receive damage themselves, not to perform almost the same as swordsmen.
I really like that you still call them hoemasters instead of swordmasters lol.
I adopted this name. I also do this...
Thanks Zerk! I love it! :D
The coolest looking unit that I never have to recruit lmao
Who would win: Elves who have trained with their weapons for literally thousands of years, honing their weapon skills and sadism over all this time, driven by hatred for everyone who aren't them or some really fighty fungus
This is hilarious but sadly Idk if it's true. The Greenskins are fungal humanoids in 40K but I don't think they are in Fantasy. Still though millennia of skill, seeming racial psychosis (like their 40K Dark Eldar version), religious fanatacism and hate, etc... versus "Time fo a foight boyz! WAAAAAAAAGHH!" 😆
@@angelusumbra5741 I honestly don't know, but the a fanwiki cites a Skarsnik novel as saying they're fungus
@@ProneOyster
You could be right. I'm just saying I know for sure that they're fungus people, even growing full Orkoids (they're Orks in 40K, but Orcs in FB) from mushrooms, in the 40K setting. Although I'm a lot more familiar with that setting than with Fantasy I am pretty sure about this, because the Black Orcs that are only in Fantasy were bred/created as a slave warrior caste by the Chaos Dwarves before rising up and leaving. And in 40K the various space Greenskins don't breed at all, and instead procreate by releasing fungal spores especially upon dying.
@@ProneOyster
Okay I just looked it up. In the Skarsnik novel from Black Library they mention that Night Goblins come from spores, but that could be due to this type of Goblin species being obsessed with and or symbiotic with fungi. In the past editions (1st through 3rd) of Fantasy female Orcs existed and had models. There were also Half Orcs in those early editions. And apparently early 40K had mentions of something called "Femboyz" as an Ork mutation, but it wasn't ever gone into and that was way back when Space Marines weren't huge and were just buff guys in power armor. As for in Fantasy Battle there were female and half Orcs in the past, but they haven't been mentioned in a while. And Games Workshop hasn't for sure said that the Greenskins (besides the mention about specifically Night Goblins in that one story novel) are fungal like in 40K. But honestly they've done A LOT of stream lining in both settings, so maybe it's now an unstated but assumed thing.
And if you're wondering, I used 1d4chan mainly for the info. As well as trying to double check with some other wikis... This is one of the problems with GW. They like to retcon to remove things, but then don't clearly say what the deal is now. I get why they've changed and removed certain things over the years, but they could do a better job with the clarifications. Although... no info is better than the past canon of prior 40K editions written by Matt Ward. "Our Spiritual Liege" indeed. 😝
What's the name of the site you used? There's a few fan wikis, and while I think I know which one you mean I'm not 100% sure. And I'd appreciate cause I like reading the articles on those sites. ☺
@@angelusumbra5741 warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Greenskins#fn_3a here's the specific reference
you rigged this whole thing against depth guard so you could make that pun
Th Random Pug lmao
One could say they were out of their league.
@Amaurus - hahaha lol 😂
@@amauruss What an unfathomable pun.
@@carnivoriousleaf that's deep
I'm betting that a lot more RoR's ended up on this list than they should've. Part of that RoR bonus is being buffed up to max veterancy, which in my immediate assumption as a VamPirate player is why Hlaberd DG were here instead of standard ones.
I was wondering that too. Because swordmasters beat Chosen GW but lost to the Keepers, which also then lost to Chosen GW.
should have only used normal units
MaHaL1337 Also Halberd DG won because of better armorpiercing which is a huge difference.
@@Spider-Too-Too not really, he should have just put rank 9 on all non RoR units
Chosen (GW) with max veterancy actually beat all units on the list
Would have preferred this without regiment of renown
Wouldn't really change much would it now that we know the results right? The fact that the Chosen with Great Weapons are at the top of the list already even with RoRs against them just shows that they're the best damage dealing infantry in the game. It'd be nice to see where regular Black Orcs or Phoenix Guard end up but the rankings by faction would probably end up really similar.
@@ktvindicare Maybe somewhat similar, but there would be fewer halberd infantry.
It would also make more sense for players who primarily play the campaign :)
@@ktvindicare and if it should be for multiplayer "damage done/cost" would make more sense :)
Agreed
Not quite. Top 1 without RoR would have been swordmasters of hoeth
Don't even need to watch. ORKZ IS BEST
Edit: I am validated! ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ ORKZ
They lose to max chevroned swordmasters
The_Drop Bear I’m pretty sure swordmasters beat keepers of the flame. Swordmasters are disgustingly good and in my own testing do better than keepers of the flame..
@@thegreatskinkpriest8104
Probably think max chevroned swordmasters beat everything from previous tests it's really close again chosen with gw
The_Drop Bear Chosen are terrifying in the vortex armies that spawn. They usually have at least 6 chevrons and beat the brakes off of anything you send at them bar swordmasters.
ORKZ IZ DA BIGGEST AN' DA STRONGEST
This was great fun to watch AND interesting, too. Thanks for putting in the effort.
As one who doesn't play PvP I'd love to see a "no Regiments of Renown, all abilities allowed" version of this. I imagine that's how a great many players will experience melee infantry.
Not wanting that to sound like a complaint, however. Just a "campaign play" variant.
Cheers
I can't get over the fact that the acronym you used for the blades of the blood queen was BBQ lol
I feel like it should've been a contest excluding RoRs.
Either excluding RoR, or ONLY having RoR. It felt really awkward to see the greatswords fight against RoR, when they have their own RoR version of themselves.
Yeah the chosen and gs were always gonna lose to RoR like really krimson killers isnt a fair match up
*Creative Assembly now wondering why there's a spike in the use of the Khepra Guard*
They buffed the Kepra Guard's Meele Defense a few patches back. They have more than what you would expect from dual-wielding units.
"Running out of rats" - Ha! We never run out of rats, yes yes.
I have found that standard Depth Guard are an amazing unit for killing trash. You dont put them against top tier units, for that you use mobs backed up by range. You send your depth guard in to rapidly destroy trash because they regen and kill so quickly.
You need the walls taken while they are defended by spearmen or swordsmen? Depth guard will get the job done.
so u put ROR vs normal unit without giving them max vet ? well that seems unfair and screw the result for ROR always, try max chevron, i think some result will change for the non ROR units (especially the sword masters)
It would definitely affect the outcome, but how often do you see people bringing in fully leveled elite units to a match? Sure it would tell you who is most capable of being the best of the best, but it wouldn't tell you who is more likely to win in more common multiplayer battle situations.
I agree with englishmuffein. Max chevrons would up the price considerably, way too far for multiplayer so what you see here is the most likely circumstance.
@@rovers141 if I'm not wrong they would cost similar to ROR phoenix guards (1650 vs 1685) and cost equalized (3 silver chevron) sword master beat krimson killers (just tested) , so no u should account with vet cause ROR are already max vet if there was an option to have them at base vet it would be better for testing , but alas we are stuck with this, so we better do fair and optimal tests (or exclude ROR to remove this problem)
@@malox1696 I agree with the chevron argument. if there was a swordmaster ror it would have been top 3 at least.
Also, realistic battlefield duels isn't the point of this video. The point is to figure out which infantry unit is the best. So they really should've been upgraded to max veterancy.
20:29 When you're trying to reach the word count on your essay
The keeper of the flame should not charge, they have charge defence vs all !
100% they cop a significant chunk of damage from not being braced, which also means they lose their Martial Mastery earlier. My guess is that they may have placed 4th or even 3rd if they had been braced.
@Meba Maybe, BUT they'd perform much better. Chosen barely beat them. I think the Keepers would take that match up. The Executioner unit will certainly win but it would be a little closer. Peak Gate will be 50/50 and I think even Krimson Killers will be razor thin as well.
Not using charge defence is just as dumb as not using charge bonus.
Either walk all units into combat without charges to compare straight melee or let defenders brace and chargers charge.
@Meba True, but at least it isn't deliberately handicapping one and not the other. I'd rather the defenders brace and the chargers charge. Only time a defender should charge in a test like this is if they're facing other defenders.
I'd also like to see how the Ironbreakers RoR does with fire at will turned off to avoid cheating but braced for their charge defense perk.
And then a little update came out that gave the wood elves not only an incredibly broken new lord, but perhaps the single best infantry in the game as well as one of the top cavs plus budget dragon ogres, thank you CA I love the wood elves 😊
Me: La Maisontal
Zerkovich: It's La Maisontaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal
3:43 Excluding Ironbrakers?! This was rigged from the start. That goes into the book of grudges! Also, suscribed to your channel. Nice videos. Although more dwarfs is always a good idea.
He should have incuded them. He could have disabled the auto-fire and used ALT+click to send them on a melee charge.
@@carlchristianlindalen9311 he did state in the video that if you do that they lose pretty handily to those hammerers
This was an infantry unit comparison, and ironbreakers are definitely infantry units, but they are wise enough to have bombs with them. Should have let them into the brawl.
@@beerkenstein did you watch the video? He did let them into the brawl and they lost to the hammerers when using his criteria, hence they didn't earn their place in the big tournament
@@houndofculann1793 Did YOU watch it? He disabled their bombing skill when doing so. Shouldn't have, they are op infantry in-game, especially because they use bombs too. Dark elves and tomb kings also get a racial advantage, so this decision was rather subjective for me.
Hey what about ranks? You should increase the cost of the normal units to add rank 9 units in order to battle these Regiments of Renown.
Interesting point.
Yeah chosen with great weapons are number 2 with crimson killer's at rank one in my tests
Should have just done this without RoR
Ranks should probably be added to cost equalise as much as possible. How would ranked up Greatswords do? We know they suck but they are cheap.
What if keepers of the flame didn't charge though? That would have activated their charge defence against all and maybe they would have performed better.
this
Exactly this. It was wrong to force defenders to charge.
Standardised tests like this will always have a degree of inaccuracies such as this. In order to get orderly results via consistent testing methods, certain competitors will always lose out due to being used in an incorrect context or having their advantages nullified. Still an interesting test, but the results must never be taken at face value and called absolute.
to be fair its a wonder they a top tier in this if you consider they had to charge and are not made to fight infantry which says a lot
These videos are both so much fun to watch, and so informative for a new player. Thanks for putting in all that work!
No carroburg greatswords? Also, maybe do this for non RoRs at 9 chevrons all around. I have a strong suspicion that would shift the list a bit.
non ROR units belongs to the Swordmasters.
I also think he did this with units usable in multiplayer, and the special greatsword unit is a campaign only unit.
@@joeb1955 Chosen beat swordmasters mate.
@@jonathangwahlstedt I replied to another comment of yours with a link to a video similar to this. That test has been done already. Swordmasters win more often than they lose, in a very close fight mind you, but they still win.
@@jonathangwahlstedt swordmasters beat chosen if they keep there martial prowess
@@jonathangwahlstedt no they don't
I feel like the Bloody Reaver Deck Guard shouldn't get any kind of buff because that isn't the point of their faction. When they're used in combination with their ranged units (the literal strength of their faction), they're fantastic which is why they're supposed to be bad in a vacuum situation like this.
Same argument for Greatswords or Elf Wardens, etc. He said it himself, the ones that did the best are the damage dealers of their army rosters.
Keepers of the Flame surprised me with how well they did. I imagined them to simply be the anvil that you hammer Silver Helms against.
@@thesuperginge1348 kotf are deathdealers, they mow down large so well... but yeah - they are the anvil. fix it with keepers, murder it with sisters is my general approach to elite enemy units.
It doesn't really matter what the point of their faction is, the fact is that they are way overpriced for their usefulness. So either they need a buff, or they need to reduce their price for multiplayer purposes. Otherwise it's just a waste of money.
They are not fantastic. I'd rather say that they are pretty useless (as well as their non-RoR variant). There are just too little applications, when you should use these over zombo-halberds. I won't say _never_ bc who knows. Still, for me personally it is quite close to that.
In case anyone wonder, Chosen DO beat all the other non RoR melee units in the game. Really hope to see an RoR chosen unit in ze fewcha!
Swordmasters beat Chosen GW more times than they lose in a straight 1v1 fight. Martial Prowess and the bonus vs inf with a larger unit size gives them the edge.
@@joeb1955 No they do not from my testing and experience with that matchup, and given full chevrons to both. Thats just not even close anymore.
@@jonathangwahlstedt ua-cam.com/video/cDtG3tqxd5o/v-deo.html
This test has already been done.
@@joeb1955 Not when you test like Zerk did, 5 against 5, chosen kills MP on the charge, and SM don't have the HP
@@AloysNeverood Swordmasters beat Chosen GW more often than they lose, they can lose, but Swordmasters win slightly more often
The Holy Wardens were the Cleveland Browns of this competition
I'd like to see how they'd stack up in a 2v1 situation, vs some of those more expensive units. They're close to half the price of most of the winners here.
Then what would the Greatswords be?
I'd be interested to see a matchup like that for each faction's cheapest infantry.
Zerk, do a trial of anti-large infantry against different types of large monsters/monstrous infantry, comparing cost per unit and how many units needed to bring down the monsters.
I really enjoyed this, but I really kinda wish you didn’t use RoRs so everything would have been more fair and more applicable in the actual game.
That's actually really interesting the way the wins climb so evenly, bit of a testament to the balance getting better over time
7:30 the results are about to show and my heart an money is on my lizard boys !!
Update : 17:25 oh no :(
Honestly though, lizards don't need a super strong infantry unit. I would be a bit bothered if they had the strongest infantry unit on top of everything else they have.
@@rovers141 Do they need it no. Should they have it probably. Temple Guard are meant to be that they'll fuck up basically anything you send them at unit. That's both in TT and in the lore as well. They had a very short list of elite infrantry units (that wasn't even always a Guarantee) they would lose to on TT and they would bleed those units to basically no impact after fighting them. My biggest fear for the Lizardmen was Temple Guard being like regular Halberd Elite infrantry where they couldn't compete with other Elite Infrantry. Sadly that fear was justified and instead of the well rounded super soldiers we got something else entirely.
@@lastdefenderofxhotl i mean in the lore slayers can solo dragons and trolls without help, so its a give and take i suppose. The dinos already have rexes on roids and bodybuilding crocs, if you add blender infantry they'll be unstoppable
F
@@p2jack2000 In lore certain slayers can solo dragons. Albeit most of them will die trying which is the whole point. A congregation of slayers like a decent number of them together could probably kill a dragon with solid losses but again that's the whole point. The troll angle is weird because the gulf between the average troll and the average dwarf is probably only like 4 to 1 as in it would probably take 4 Dwarfs to kill 1 troll. In the case of the average slayer it's more like 2 to 1. The lack of armour is surprisingly beneficial because of the extra speed for evading which is kind of a necessity unless you've got really good gear, and the willingness to die makes for more risky attacks and increases chance of instant kills. A lone normal slayer killing a normal troll isn't the likely outcome but it's certainly not irregular.
The issue with Temple Guard is they're just as skilled as their other elite infrantry counterparts. Yet unlike their counterparts are also 9 foot tall Lizards who can crush "small" boulders in their bare hands, and are remarkably fast and well coordinated with natural fighting and killing instincts. That's ignoring that just on equipment alone they beat every other elite infrantry because they the dexterity and strength to use a armour piercing 2 handed polearm in 1 hand and a (very big) shield at the same time. Like logically they should just never lose.
This was very entertaining to watch and also kind of informative. It would be awesome to see more like this comparing more unit types.
Things that invalidate this test:
- Only the RoR have rank 9.
- Artificial testing constraints deny proper unit usage.
Without equal ranking, the entire thing falls flat at the outset. In addition; units are denied their charge defences and activateable abilities, and thus are forced to not work properly.
For removal of inherent charge defence to be fair practice you would also have to deny all inherent charge bonuses and instead used move orders to enter combat.
Blasting charges are debateable but intended to function as charge disruption (1 volley, then disable to have time to brace). It should not invalidate Ironbreakers. Either way, you could have disabled auto-fire to remove that capability. If you also want to deny their charge defence you can hold ALT while clicking the attack to send them on a normal melee charge.
The "out of their depth" pun would make PartyElite proud. 😂
Just when u think you know everything about everything in the game, zerkovich comes in, drop kicks u off of ur high horse , and here u are learnin again. Great vid zerk, hoping for a new total war warhammer stream . Keep it up bearded god
YES, Come on DA BOYZ. Krimson Killas are one of my favourite units
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE ARE THE GREEN TIDE!!!
WE'Z DA BESTAZ OF ALL DA BOYZ! AND WE'Z FOLLOWIN' DA BOSS OF ALL DA BOSSES! DA GREATEZT BOSS, GRIMGOR!
We be gathering a wwaaaggh in dis comment thread. Few more then I can finally tick off: start Waagh on UA-cam
*WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
conclusion: RED GOES FASTA
I didn't think this could be enjoyable for 30 minutes, but I really liked the way you revealed the matchups, awesome vid!
Thanks for the feedback. I did wonder if it was too long to be entertaining for this long, so that's helpful.
Make this a show like best range then best monster extra
How should empire and dwarf joins?
@@Crysalix4225 & empire monster is... a tank?
only downside: surely the sisters are going to whup every other ranged unit? hell, they can 1v1 some artillery.
@@sjs9698 waywatchers.
Don't know how there called the wood elf unit
@@sjs9698 yeah the empire will be the tank!
You have got to do this with all classes of units! This was awesome!
it's surprising that the grave guard beat the greatswords, i guess that the fact that they won't runaway beats out the better stats of the greatswords
Greatswordsmen need more calcium
Grave Guard have a higher bonus vs infantry and better ap i believe
One thing that has always bugged me is certain units have the same or near same amount of armor as Greatswords when they shouldnt. GG being one of the offenders.
That was a key element of the GS was they are special hand picked soldiers who never take a backward step against the foe and are armed with dwarf forged plate and blades. The best of the best with the best equipment. On par with Chaos Warrior and Gromril armor.
Orks, undead, elves... best they could do was heavy armor a whole grade below.
@@r.j.macready Most Empire units I feel are underwhelming at best. You really have to mix them all together pretty well to get a passable army. They are well rounded but none really stand out for being amazing.
Which is why the Empire is my favorite faction. You can't just send an unsupported unit and expect it to win. You always have to use combined arms.
This is also how they played in the tabletop.
Karl Franz leaves the chat
Also I really like this type of videos, will you make another competition, for example with cavalery, or maybe heroes, lords...?
Why xd
Notice that when the final battle between the blades of the blood queen and the Krimson Killerz starts he says "lets see whose da best"
The fact that the Chosen actually did so well against special tier units. Is REALLY GOOD. I imagine they would beat the base tier versions then. (regular hammers, Executioners, and Black Orcs)
Wouldn't it have made sense to put all of the non RoR units to 3Gold chevrons?
Nope. Cuz RoR units are nowhere near as good as standard units at full xp... with a few exceptions. Should have just excluded RoR units since they are so wonky.
Loved this. Seeing the top-tier infantry duke it out is great.
Maybe we should do the same for the lowest-tier melee infantry each faction can field! In that case, would you do number of units vs same number of units like in this video, or would you do money spent vs. money spent? I think either would be interesting.
I always forget about the killing power of the Greenskins. I figured the High Elves were gonna win because... Well, you know. They're High Elves. They're broken haha
If you could, find out which anti large unit is best by facing them off against large units and see how many of that single type of large unit they can take out.
I'd love to see this with ranged infantry & melee cavalry - same test conditions should work with ranged as it'd let the longer ranged units get in an extra volley or two & obviously cavalry charging is perfectly natural
We need a Chosen RoR. That'd show'em.
Chosen HAD to be the first one. They just had to...
A Chosen RoR is like the Chosen of the Chosen
@@KorsAir1987 They will likely be 4 Chosen RoRs, one for each Chaos God.
@@mattheww.6232 How would CA even handle making Chosen of Slaanesh? It's not like you can just slap tits on everything and call it a day.
Alessandra Gonzales I mean they could, but they would need to add some other things as well
We have those m8. Aspiring Champions.
I did the test too (but with less units for each faction, just the strongest i was feeling !) and yeah Crimzon are amazing ! I hope the ''debug'' with splash attack will not nerf them.
Amazing type of video, want more of that :)
Zerkovich for the past years: "Use Tactics! What Unit is the most useful always depends on the matchup and the situaton! Use unit abilities wisely!"
Me: ...
Zerkovich: "WE GONNA IGNORE ALL THAT AND TEST WHO'S THE BEST WITHOUT TACTICS, WITHOUT USING ABILITIES AND WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATOIN FOR SITUATINS OR MATCHUPS!"
Me: Weird flex but ok
Tactics are about getting the best out of your units and out of a situation.
Knowing how your units handle a situation without using any tactics is a great thing. You know now if you can leave your infantry in the fight, or how urgent it is to help them before they unevitably fail.
@@TeteBruleeFR Not really true. He was running units with Expert Charge Defence headlong into charge bonus masters instead of bracing them, and completely disregarding one of the strongest melee units in the game because he didn't know how to stop them from using their charge disruption (Ironbreakers). He also gave regular units 0 ranks while the RoR all start with max ranks.
That's not really "no tactics", that's plain bad tactics and arbitrary handicapping.
@@carlchristianlindalen9311 I agree, there is a lot of room to improve the fairness of thoses duels... Keeper of the flames should have remain standing in the matchup where their charge bonus is lower than the attacking unit's (so most of them really)... And some units are cruelly missing, like the sword masters who should have still easely make up to the top 10 of the bracket.
Also, I m pretty sure that even tho the council gards lost the the pack, they would have won a fair bit of matchup the plague pack lost...
There is also an argument to make all non ROR gold3 chevron to make the fight more fair...
I love that you made test really well. 5vs5 not 1vs1 as many tests on UA-cam. Also all vs all not elimination tournament that relly highly on luck in 1vs1 fights.
Krimson Killers without even looking.
*then uses the iron breakers and there charges or as a imperial player uses hand gunners and other shits to destroy them before they even get close.* nope.
@@TheManofthecross Yeah ok, but that wasn't the question. :)
Vincent Celeste this is a melee comparison, ofc artillery and range will beat them before they even get close, how dense must one be to even say things like that on a pure melee comparison video...
@@mooncow1072 maybe you for trying to insult people for being dense.
@Adam Mueller only physical death can silence me fool anything short of that I will keep going with the typing and more.
Great test! Like your analysis and the explanations. Keep up the good work man !
Agreed. I want to see more videos like this! Compare stats! The nerd in me wants to get those sweet nerd gains. This is like steroids for my inner nerd
Zerkovic: “now, the factions in alphabetical order”
*second to last faction: Chaos*
WARRIORS of Chaos :p
These kinds of videos are awesome, I love the context and explanation in addition to just showing results. Keep em coming!
I wonder, where the not-ROR units at the highest level of three gold chevrons?
Im surprised of the result because lvl 0 swordmasters of oeth mop the floor with lvl 0 phonix guard, but using the keepers of the flame would surely give them the edge.
And in others tests, at lvl 0, swordmasters of hoeth were hands down the best.
well no since chevrons cost gold to add
@@samarkand1585 But that gold cost is priced into every ROR unit anyway... I think it would've been better to just give every vanilla unit three gold chevrons (and include that when weighing their relative costs), otherwise for a lot of these match-ups, it's just a confirmation that chevrons make units better.
@@caret_shell well said!
@@caret_shell A rank 9 Chosen GW costs almost 1950 gold. Best unit strength wise or not, nobody would ever use a rank 9 chosen GW in multiplayer. Rank isn't always priced into the RoR unit, if you take a regular chaos warrior at rank 9 and the mirror guard (RoR chaos warrior), the regular chaos warrior is over 100 gold more expensive.
@@joeb1955 Huh, good to know. I had assumed that every ROR unit was the base unit at rank 9, plus potential bonuses and powers and other stat adjustments, and that the cost would be commensurate with that.
Nonetheless, I don't find much of interest in pitting vanilla greatswords against other factions' ROR best of the best. Players might not buy rank 9 melee units in multiplayer, but they also wouldn't buy ROR halberd depth guards to use as front line fodder, and they were here anyway.
This must have took a lot of work so thanks for this ! So interesting! Would love to see one with Legendary Lords!
Just to comment on what you said about questioning how good the depth guards would be against, say, Kholek Suneater, you're really underestimating how good their +30 VS Large makes them. If they use their ability and Kholek isn't equipped with Starcrusher, they win with about 60% health left, which is crazy good value for them. If they don't use their ability and Kholek does have Starcrusher, they leave with about 35% health left, which even then gives them good value. They have a place in the top best anti-large units, they're just really not a good anti-infantry unit. At all.
kind of the same with the Keepers of the Flame, that they got so high in an infantry brawl while also being a terrifying presence for any large unit on the battlefield does say a lot too
Because in a vacuum, they aren't good vs infantry. This is a vacuum test. On their roster, they are designed to put the brakes on anything that is too big or too fast to be mowed down by ranged units before reaching their lines, which they do perfectly.
Bruh. Zerk you are insane man. So much work, for such a niche video.
One dark day, i turned to the Lord and asked : Can someone make this ? And then Zerkovich came with the light and i said : Thank you Lord
Keep up the good Warhammer videos mate, love them. Your voice is pretty soothing to listen too, not in a weird way but it's relaxing whilst watching the vid!
Thanks again man. ❤
definitely should have excluded regiments of renown from this.
i agree that i wanna see this w/o ROR but the title kinda left it up to speculation. lets yell at him til he does it lol.
Perhaps an idea for another video.
Well as I said at the start. Wanted to see if there is one to rule them all!
@@Zerkovich Should have given them all rank 9 then and also let defender types use their Expert Charge Defence + use any/all active abilities, even blasting charges. Btw: You can disable auto-fire and/or hold ALT while attacking to avoid using blasting charges.
Be nice to see one of these with cavalry units, let the Empire and Brettonia regain some ground.
Question is, do you allow monsterous cav? If not, I don't think reiksguard will do as well as a lot of others. If so, do you go back and retest infantry with monsterous infantry?
@@Buffalo9975 I think so, they're still cavalry for all intents and purposes it's only really the label which is different.
@@gunesturkmen true, those factions will have to be omitted I suppose.
Okay, how many want to see norgrimlings ironbreakers vs. krimson killers? You dq'd them because of their unit ability, but other units' abilities didn't disqualify them. And in terms of a functional head-on collision you see in a real game, ironbreakers usually get off 1 or 2 grenades before the fight starts.
you should have included swordmasters as well, i am pretty sure they beat chosen(gw) with the latest health buff.Just because they lost to Keepers of the flame doesn't mean they would do worse in this list,probably better actually.
Aye, I've seen Swordmasters beat Chosen GW as well. Don't know if it is consistent, but they can. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't get a health buff, but a leadership buff of +5.
@@warhammerchaosgod swordmasters phoenix guard executioners and black guard all got +4 hp per model "+300 hp total" 2 patches ago as a buff
intention was to make elite elf infantry slightly less fragile to artilery
chosen GW beats swordmasters like 7 out of 10 times. swordmasters used to be better but chosens got buff too. From that moment chosens wins most of the time
I still think Depth get kind of robbed in this sort of contest. They're meant to really slog through chaff units, not fight other elites.
Wasn't the competition heavily skewed by most of the these units being regiments of renown, while others not?
I was confused when I saw the choice for the TKs until I realized the spectral infantry is one of the special campaign ones and is excluded
I really liked the video, but I'm not too happy with the use of the regiments of renown. Yes, they are good, but as you depicted your test, it's illogical : they're strong, but you can have only ONE of version of these units at the same time (multiplayer or campaign).
Thus, a matchup where you have 5 of them in the same army is completely impossible. It may have been better to exclude them from this theme, and give them a dedicated spotlight in another video.
Seems to be a common theme. No way of testing is going to be perfect. I was just trying to answer the question of 'Who can beat everyone in melee?'. Maybe I'll do it without RoR in ze fewcha.
I don't think this test was about putting multiple RoR's in an army, but seeing which unit you could throw at another unit and reliably win an engagement in without any support, making it closer to the "best" melee infantry, across factions.
As an O&G and dark elves player when Fantasy was a thing this makes me very happy
This whole video is pointless. Everyone knows Grimgor is already da best.
I was kind of disappointed we didn't have any X > Y > Z > X to create a tie at some point.
Seeing the first place vs. last place slaughter at some point would have been interesting too.
I think another interesting test is to find who are the most cost effective core infantry to build your army around.
*zombie deckhand mob looks over* hey baby
Yes!!! I couldn't agree more!!
@@dac314 I personally would be rooting for saurus warriors.
@@TheSpencer1000 You could also go for master necromancer+skeleton warriors. That's a extremely cheap (in the campaign) and still effective army, especially when it's not countered.
Would've been more on the fair side to put Carroburg Greatswords instead of regular ones, if RoR-s were allowed I don't see why Elector Count units weren't.
Other than that, great video, subscribed.
This should have been normal units, not regiments of renown!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That doesn't answer the question of who is the best in the game. Which is the aim of my testing. Maybe I'll do it without RoRs in ze fewcha.
@@Zerkovich That would be an excellent follow up video. I'm very interested in seeing who's the best as bog standard infantry. Maybe the Chosen will regain their number one spot.
@@Zerkovich The problem is there are no regiments of renown for the best infantry units in some cases. So since there's no sword masters regiment of renown, you use keepers of the flame, but rank 9 swordmasters beat the keepers handily. In the case where a faction doesn't get a regiment of renown for their best infantry unit, they should have been rank 9. Chosen that are rank 0 vs rank 9 elite RoR seems off.
CA group video chat discussing the plans for balancing TWW2:
'Ok so we're gonna have to test the waters and see what units may need a few twe-'
'Done already.'
'W-what?'
'It's done already. Give the Blood Reaver Deck Guard the buff.'
*shows video*
'This man... him and everyone else involved are doing God's work.'
I feel like you hinted to this by saying "da best"
A few quibbles:
1) It would have been trivial to disable the passive bonuses on the DE/TK; just bring massive numbers of additional 'troops', and have them sit in the background with the lords, doing nothing. Then the bars, which are affected by size of entire army, would have been drastically slower to charge, likely not reaching at all.
2) In line with 'using melee infantry correctly', the dwarves wouldn't charge in; why disable their (and others') charge defence against all ability in such a manner? Also, leaving out the passively active Ironbreakers' "special weapon" is pointless, since it's not an ability they are lacking *and* you don't have to activate it, so it's not equivalent to activated skills.
3) Using RoR units seems kinda' like a cop-out, since they're specifically unique units who in many instances are special *because of* skills/abilities which need activated.
4) ignoring special abilities (including waagh) means that this test makes no sense, since those abilities exist and are part of what makes the units strong to begin with. They should have been used to advantage.
5) this would have been a more valid test if each race brought a 'best 3x units' or somewhat similar, since many of these units aren't actually good at what they're doing. Other units within the roster would have proven more effective in some instances.
Basically, in other words, the rules were set arbitrarily to benefit some but not all, the units were used to disadvantage for those races which are defensive, and not enough of the available units were tested to prove that this lineup holds true. More importantly, a large number of these units were RoR, which don't belong in a standard melee infantry test; they belong in a separate test of RoR.
3:21 You could just have used their ammunition before the actual fight or put off fire at will. I just guess, I don't have that DLC.
he said that, without using their ammo, they lost to the hammerers ror
Originally wouldn't really have expected the Killaz to beat the Blades of the Bloodqueen, but if you think about it, it kind of makes sense. In most cases, having fewer but stronger models wouldn't neccessarily be advantageous but in this specific matchup it actually is helping the Killaz because it denies the Dark Elves their Murderous Mastery for longer, simply because they take out less models, and the splash does compensate for the lower model count.
One thing people tend to underestimate with Krimson Killaz and Black Orcs in general is that even though they don't have the greatest model count, they have a metric fuckton of health for an infantry unit. I mean, the Krimson Killaz have more health overall than the Blades, even though they have 15 less models.
Hol Up.
Where's the Carroburg Greatswords?!
Not included because you can't normally use them in multiplayer.
Been 3 years but I like this video :))
Legit worst test conditiones ever. Better call it what´s the best "non ability, meely 1vs1 inf survival unit"
Even better. What's the best RoR, non ability, 1vs1, no charge defense, inf, survival unit.
We need cavalry, monsters, flying monsters and archers now ! :D
Couldn’t he have used the iron breakers for the dwarfs and just held alt when starting the attack so they didn’t use their explosives and just melee? Feel like they might have come out on top
“We wontz ta fight dem iron-stunties and find out whoze really DA BEST! Just do wot we’z usually do - get a pack o’ gobbos to catch all da splody fings wif deir teef! Den, WE charge in!” - an anonymous Crimson Killa, giving his impression after the tournament-winning bout vs the Blades of the Blood Queen.
Sigmar's son r da best for I. How can they not be? They are the Sigmar's sons dammit >%V
25:57 that was such a random LOTR reference.
"as a greenskin player..."
they do exist
I would be very interested to see a new matchup of only regular units, no regiments of renown. I only do campaigns (honestly im too lazy to learn to micro well enough for multiplayer lol) so that would be far more beneficial for us simple campaign folk!
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Can you please do this for all unit types? Really interesting stuff.
Marauder Champions are REALLY good units. Like, as far as the factions go, taking into consideration who gets what unit options to buy from, getting 50+ Melee Defense on a 1000 cost unit with decent armor and hitpoints is amazing when you, as previously stated, take into account they have nearly any kind of monster type to choose from, to be the hammer for your Champion anvil.
25:56 "Meat is back on the menu boyz" 😂
Could you make some kind of tier list for each faction?, that would give you a lot of videos :3
Like the worst units and best units of a single faction in order of worst to best.
check out wyvern and dahv plays they both have done that before