The Klingons had to be salivating at the opportunity here. An entire fleet approaching by cloak, decloaking on an exposed flank, and shooting until their batteries ran dry without running out of targets.
Maybe. But they sure feel vulnerable. Up until then, their fights with the other alpha quadrant powers were just small battles that did not threaten the homeworld itself. The stakes are high and they know it.
Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them Volley'd & thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, Boldly they rode and well, Into the jaws of Death, Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred.
It is actually quite smart for the Klingons to attack from the direction of a Star, the star’s gravitational and electromagnetic signature probably masked their warp signature as they comes in
That part at ~ 1:00 were you see the big ol' lumbering Galaxy's tear a few new assholes in the galor-class ship. One of two things is happening - the sheer force of phaser fire is pushing the Galor away, or someone (the helmsman, or the captain) is noping out of there as fast as he can turn and accelerate.
I vote for the first part of your theory. I mean...sure..in the beginning of the war...the Federation did NOT have the ability to launch this kind of offensive...but at this point..shields...torpedo's..phasers...all were upgrades...you bet your ass the Galor ships were fucked over! Qapla!
could be either of those theories, could be the Galors helmsman was avoiding collision, those two Galaxies wasted no time cutting into its course heading.
explosive decompression (both the huge explosions themselves and all the air rushing out of the hull breaches) would play a part. Also, seeing 6-7 Galaxy-class ships IN ONE STILL-CAMERA SHOT
When I saw this for the very first time when it was aired in the UK, I kid you not I was on my feet cheering when the Klingons came in, slamming into the Dominion flank like a sledgehammer!! I suppose it was only fair that the writers had the Klingons make an entrance in style :)
+Dippers85 Sort of like the arrival of the Pegasus in The BSG episode Exodus. Still the thing that I notice is that these big battles play out like giant 'fighter plane dogfights' rather than ship vs ship slugging matches;
+Nick Mitsialis I'd love the battles in the BSG, So beautiful but deadly, Especially the flalk they used to destroy incoming missiles from cylon basestars
KD84Afc™ Yeah the Battlestar v Basestar actually looks like a fight between Capitol Ships-heavyweights slugging it out-and the point defense concept is a great idea.
@Jessico76 Pretty sure when the Romulans first entered the fight, a few Galaxies were at least seriously damaged. Also, the USS Odyssey was a Galaxy class, and its destruction was the beginning of the war.
that moment on the klingon tactical officers face must have been brilliant when they realised that they just accidently blow up one of their own ships at 2:49. well at least it sorted itself out for them at 2:53.
The reason Q never bothered them was because they were unimportant. Humans drew his attention because they were developing faster than they should. Klingons and Ferengi had warp drive for thousands of years. Yet in a few dozen, the humans have established a vast empire (Federation). The Borg are all but undefeatable - until they meet the Federation and Species 8472 (and species 8472 had to retreat due to human intervention). This is why Q was so curious about humans and Voyager, I think.
Congratulations Captain! You wanted them angry! Well they're angry! The Dominion plan worked a little too well. They thought Sisko was going to send in only a few ships. They didn't expect all of them to come.
And all the ships that broke the hole in the Dominion lines died except for the Defiant. There are so many longshots in the dark that actually connected...right up to literally praying to the gods.
Even then, if the Klinons don't show up when they did, the Federation fleet gets completely wiped out, including Defiant. It was a stupid roll of the dice by Sisco.
@Mikanojo the nebula classes have secondary pods above the saucer section that can be replaced with enhanced weaponry such as an increased amount of torpedo tubes and stronger phaser banks. during the dominion war federation shipyards had large requests for ships and construction materials so they started patching together ships from spare parts/unrelated ships.
Fighters the way we think of them would be decimated in that kind of battle, to small to carry any significant firepower. You need small maneuverable starships capable of doing hit and runs in squadrons, big enough to arm with decent shields but small enough to weave in and out of enemy lines easy enough. First engagements usually consist of "fighter" ships entering the enemy ranks first softening shields and armor so that some of your heavy hitters can come in and punch holes in the lines.
+TheScholar74 Indeed. One BoP was destroyed by friendly fire, one got shred by the Jem'Hadar Warship and the third one was caught in the explosion of said Warship.
Bashir @:38 - "It's a trap!!" Sisko: "Doctor, you are crossing franchises and I will not stand for it. Confine yourself to quarters." Bashir: "What? What?!? WHAT!!" Sisko: "Security to the Bridge..."
22steve5150 Dominion weapons are capable of penetrating Federation shields. This was established in their first appearance. The Defiant gets around this by using ablative armor.
@@toddsmitts Except one of the Mirandas got ganked by a Cardassian compressor beam... Cardassians are known for many things, but space technology is not one of them.
Star Trek's battle scenes trump those of Star Wars with ease. Nothing more awesome than seeing huge ships vs huge ships. Fighters are nothing but target practice anyway.
+gamesmaster35 The Defiant is hardly a fighter, not in the Star Wars sense, anyway. It is around 170 meters long, 355,000 metrics tons and classed as an Escort (sometimes Heavy Escort). But the ship's maneuverability puts most starfighters to shame!
See that's the problem I had with the space battles in this show: The Capital Ships maneuvered & fought like fighters rather than like large ships. You lack the sense of scale between the vessels.
The problem with large ships that fly and fight like fighter is that they tend to die like one as well. Take those 2 Federation ships that escorted the Defiant(I forgot their class) for example, how quick were they got destroyed. Took few shots is enough to destroy them. And guess how many crew were aboard those ships.
@Jessico76 Well that's good to know, glad my precious Galaxies survived. I could have sworn the destruction of the Odyssey was like the sinking of the USS Maine, in that it rallied everyone to hate the Dominion and very soon after, it all hit the fan. I still dislike the lack of effective shielding on both sides of the conflict. It just seems more explosion oriented for sake of ratings.
Most of them do. The Jem'hadar use alot of different phaser beam/phased poleron beam frequences. Shields can't cope with the majority of shots, to calibrate for one type of fire would open them up to another. The better defence was regenerative shielding and ablative armor (both rare). Coming from two different quadrents, the Jem'hadar didn't have the time to adapt their shields for federation weapons either, so neither side could totally rely upon thier shield technologies.
Even though they are fighting the cardissians, i like the one on the defiant. He's funny. "You wanted them angry, they're angy." , & "wouldn't this be a good time to cloak?!" lol....
+Avinash Tyagi The klingons snuck up because they were cloaked. Cloaked was still an advantage since the detection capability of the dominion was sketchy at best. The defiant could have been cloaked the whole time and flew right past enemy lines as they did in other episodes.
Let's face it. A cloaked ship(s) flying to the station and saving the day while the battle was going on would have been the practical solution of any sane commander. Too often in modern television the trend is to have people behave like morons to create action, rather than refining the story. If I were writing it, I would have used the logical cloaked fleet, but added an unforseen obstacle. Like perhaps a cunning second minefield surrounding the one the federation was trying to save. Or something else that would make sense but still create a great storyline. Honestly I think modern writers really just don't have the skills anymore. Look at shows like the walking dead. Growling slow moving zombies sneaking up on people, often in a forest setting with leaves covering the ground? It's pure stupidity lol. Yet every episode, someone gets surprised and bitten lol. It's absurd.
black star No, the approaching Klingon's warp signatures would have been shielded due to the interference the Dominion was throwing up to prevent the Federation ships from communicating. Such interference blinds both sides
Agreed. That Galor Class appeared to be focusing upon the vessels that were making for the gap, and they MAY have seen the second Galaxy Class bearing down upon them, but it looks like the first Galaxy Class performed a maneuver that they didn't see coming. I totally agree. It is easily the the best bit.
As tough as the Galore Class Cardassian destroyers were, they COULDN'T withstand the firepower of ONE Galaxy-Class starship, let alone TWO. And when the Klingons finally arrived, I can just hear Dax thinking: "Who said there's never a Klingon around when you need one...or several Thousand" Hahaha
In the Star Trek game: Klingon Academy (which takes place before Star Trek 6 & General Chang is the instructor) Here are some weaponry specs: Weaponry: Phasers: 1000 type-XII phaser arrays Torpedoes: launchers: 90 hellfire: 40 photon: 5200 quantum: 5500 transphaisic: 6 tri cobalt: 10 Shields: MLSS
Indeed, Federation ships did have them. Problem is, it was new and shiny, not standard tech par say. Many ships did not. The one shown in Voyager was an experimental prototype of a class the federation uses for the next 200 years at least, along side the Enterprise J. Obviously a very forward thinking design.
Is this Star Trek or Star Wars?? Got DAMN!! That's a lot of ships... I bet the guys piloting the ships were having a hell of a time trying not to ram each other :)
The defiant... Small but leathel. Even a low quality clip of a dim budget effect when there was no real CGI is still exilirating! That's why DS-9 is my favourite Scifi
LOL! Everyone else's voice is abnormally high but Worf still sounds normal! Just gives you an idea of how low his voice was under normal circumstances. Cool clip otherwise.
I keep wondering where the sheilds are on many of those ships, expecially the miranda classes get oneshot almost instantly. I'm sure the Miranda classes are old but surely they have been retrofitted. -- On the other hand at the same time we had ST: Voyager running with a case of too much shields.
I read that Earth Spacedock 1 is technically more powerful than most of the Federation fleet combined. Like DS9, it's armed with 1000's of photon/quantum torpedoes, super powerful phasers... But hell, it got shut down in Star Trek 4 by the WHALE PROBE!! And where was it, when the Borg and Breen reached Earth??
Two more observations. That first Galaxy Class must have really fucked that ship up, because the second one only had to fire two phaser salvos to disable it. They most likely were only trying to disable it, and it's NASTY cannon, so they could save their capacitors for additional vessels. The second observation is that those Galaxy wings were pulling more than their share of the weight, before the Klingons arrived. Way outnumbered. You can tell by their defensive formation maneuvering at 02:22.
As far as "plot armour" goes, Dominion weapons (polaron-based directed energy weapons) are MADE to go through shields... So of course the damn Federation flying frisbees wouldn't get their multi-colored bubbles. Also, as ridiculous as it may seem, shields probably are reliable. However, the Federation is constantly encountering new races which are often vastly superior or inferior to their own. (it kinda makes sense, I mean what are the odds of another race being EXACTLY the same?)
Originally, the Dominion's weapons were an excellent force against Federation Shields. People seem to forget though that Sisko and Crew captured a Dominion Fighter - this gave Starfleet and its engineers something to study, and then develop countermeasures for. Once they had the weapons and could see how they worked, adapting shield technology would likely have been fairly easy, if time consuming. Its not so much plot armour as it is the Domionion underestimating their enemies injinuity. After 2000 years reigning unchallenged in the Gamma Quadrant, they got really overconfident in their superiority...
@Mikanojo thats why jj has been brought into the picture the ships look more military in my eyes thats what i think they would look like kelvin and the ships at the station not enterprise as its a buitful ship but somewhat too fance for military if u get my meening
Alot of older ships were drawn from mothball fleets and got the best refits they could,after the brief war with the klingons starfleet and had to make up loses of newer ships till replacement could be built. And if you look closer you'll see a Constitution refit/Enterprise class ship too
what I actually think is they just shut down shields so that the battle would end quicker and look cooler. I mean if they all had shields then it would look like Star Trek Legacy with all the ships mashed together. And if they had shields their would be no problem getting past the Dominion ships especially if they dont stay and fight.
You forget that Carriers are giant targets to. Even though carriers carry significant firepower they can be brought down by two or more ships. If you could equip one with a cloak and have it deploy fighters somewhere hidden or deploy fighters and recloak. Something along the lines of the Scimitar from star-trek nemesis.
I would’ve used freighters as shield ships fire ships and torpedo boats given the dominion multiple targets and force them to break up into smaller groups allowing more ships to pass through.
The ships are so crowded in these scenes. At 1:08 there was almost a Galaxy-on-Galaxy collision. Needless to say that, in a 'real' space battle, there would be no point in attempting to meet an enemy in deep space. The offensive fleet could simply fly past the defenders and on to the strategic target. Hell, even *finding* the inbound attackers in the vastness of space would be practically impossible.
Garak (worried): "Wouldn't this be a good time to cloak?" O'Brian turns around. O'Brian: "The cloaking systems fried." O'Brian turns back. I love the charakters and the dialogue.
Considering the magnitude of this war I never understood why Sisko was't promoted to Admiral. In big wars officers jump ahead in the ranks like Eisenhower going from colonel to general in just a few years.
One concept I always wondered about... Why didn't the Klingons ever have a ship that basically was on the verge of destruction transfer all power to engines, and just hyper-accelerate into the enemies? Death, Glory And Honour! FOR THE EMPIRE!
Like most film space battles it is ridiculous. The sheer speed of these ships and the vastness of space, and they are all bunched together like idiots leaving to room to maneuver! Cannon fodder, a delightful target.
@Mikanojo Sisko sent waves of fighters that didn't do anything. Dedicated carriers/fighters are probably LESS useful than most other ships. Dreadnoughts? The Galaxies get a bad rap for seeming like explodey space hotels on TNG, but that's more due to lazy threat-of-the-week writing. In the Dominion War there were more DEFIANTS(2) that died onscreen than Galaxies(1) despite there only being 3 Defiants. Warships? The Klingons/Roms/Cards/Dominion all seemed to go boom just as well as the Fed.
You are absolutely right. Star trek treats space like a 2d ocean. But that's OK. It's part of the enjoyment of getting to see battles like this. But yea, warp at an angle above the dominion fleet a short distance. Reorient. Warp to deep space nine.
Warping to the right or left of the dominion fleet would also have worked, if space were 2d but still space-sized; there are quite a few problems with this really. That said you can still have big space battles like this with relatively realistic mechanics, just with one fleet defending some planet or other fixed point. In this situation, they could've had the battle occur within weapons range of DS9 and the Wormhole (such that anyone warping in behind the Dominion forces to attack DS9 and prevent them from clearing the minefield would have still been within range of Dominion weapons), and still had Sisko try to lead forces pushing through to attack the minesweepers.
I strongly believe the producers wanted bigger battles for Deep Space Nine, but realized it would be too expensive and prolonged. So they came up with this 'shields no longer work' crap so they no longer had to animate shields or write long, detailed 1v1 engagements. I suppose both types of combat are exciting, but every time I see a Galaxy or Akira blow up, I die a little.
@rtds9fan Agreed, rtds9fan. Nothing sends a message like "We just want to save money and end the show already". Nice job, Paramount! The actors made up for it and the finale was still enjoyable. Best series still. Did they seriously think no one would notice? It was irritating during the movies for the first half of STII to use STI footage. The list goes on. Don't cheat the fans. They keep you in business!
@skycaprob He was brought in to make a big budget action movie. It was a great film, but it was something NONE of the other Trek movies have had going for them. His budget was like twice that of any other Trek movie. And he had the added benefits of handpicking his cast rather than having to work with what a TV show could get. It definitely wasn't to make the ships more military looking. That was just him cribbing on Star Wars of which he talks glowingly.
![T-800 CSM 101 Arrival | Terminator 2: Judgment Day [Remastered]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XPtVZ69lomk/mqdefault.jpg)
This is probably one of the most explosive and wide-scale battles to take place in Star Trek. It's epic!
The Klingons had to be salivating at the opportunity here. An entire fleet approaching by cloak, decloaking on an exposed flank, and shooting until their batteries ran dry without running out of targets.
Maybe. But they sure feel vulnerable. Up until then, their fights with the other alpha quadrant powers were just small battles that did not threaten the homeworld itself. The stakes are high and they know it.
"Who says there's never a Klingon around when you need one?" - Jadzia Dax
It's just too awesome how the two Galaxy class vessels just push the Galor class vessel aside... "Get the HELL out of our way!!!" - GO STARFLEET!
Aside fro the special effects(which are DAMN good), DS9's battles were just cooler.
A Cardassian is obviously thrilled when the Klingons show up.
"We're going to FIGHT OUR WAY out of this!"
Only on this show, and how awesome it was.
Riker always takes a beating ..... "Fire at Will"
Man when the Klingons ride in... Always gives me chills.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd & thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Nice poem :)
@@BijouBakson Tennyson's "Charge of the Light Brigade," right?
It is actually quite smart for the Klingons to attack from the direction of a Star, the star’s gravitational and electromagnetic signature probably masked their warp signature as they comes in
That part at ~ 1:00 were you see the big ol' lumbering Galaxy's tear a few new assholes in the galor-class ship. One of two things is happening - the sheer force of phaser fire is pushing the Galor away, or someone (the helmsman, or the captain) is noping out of there as fast as he can turn and accelerate.
I vote for the first part of your theory. I mean...sure..in the beginning of the war...the Federation did NOT have the ability to launch this kind of offensive...but at this point..shields...torpedo's..phasers...all were upgrades...you bet your ass the Galor ships were fucked over! Qapla!
could be either of those theories, could be the Galors helmsman was avoiding collision, those two Galaxies wasted no time cutting into its course heading.
explosive decompression (both the huge explosions themselves and all the air rushing out of the hull breaches) would play a part. Also, seeing 6-7 Galaxy-class ships IN ONE STILL-CAMERA SHOT
It was definitely both. You can see it start moving before getting hit, but after getting hit with like 4 strong phaser beams, it moves much faster.
2:26 Garak is pleasantly surprised.
one of the best lines of the series "Congratulations captain you wanted them angry, they're angry"
When I saw this for the very first time when it was aired in the UK, I kid you not I was on my feet cheering when the Klingons came in, slamming into the Dominion flank like a sledgehammer!! I suppose it was only fair that the writers had the Klingons make an entrance in style :)
+Dippers85 Sort of like the arrival of the Pegasus in The BSG episode Exodus.
Still the thing that I notice is that these big battles play out like giant 'fighter plane dogfights' rather than ship vs ship slugging matches;
+Nick Mitsialis I'd love the battles in the BSG, So beautiful but deadly, Especially the flalk they used to destroy incoming missiles from cylon basestars
KD84Afc™
Yeah the Battlestar v Basestar actually looks like a fight between Capitol Ships-heavyweights slugging it out-and the point defense concept is a great idea.
Dippers85 just like the rohirrim in lotr!
0:37 Admiral Ackbar would be so proud.
@Jessico76
Pretty sure when the Romulans first entered the fight, a few Galaxies were at least seriously damaged. Also, the USS Odyssey was a Galaxy class, and its destruction was the beginning of the war.
that moment on the klingon tactical officers face must have been
brilliant when they realised that they just accidently blow up one of
their own ships at 2:49. well at least it sorted itself out for them at 2:53.
I noticed that
You know you're getting old when you see youtube videos 11+ years old.
yea. youtube has now been around for an entire generation/era. and we're watching something from like, 3 era's ago.
The reason Q never bothered them was because they were unimportant. Humans drew his attention because they were developing faster than they should. Klingons and Ferengi had warp drive for thousands of years. Yet in a few dozen, the humans have established a vast empire (Federation).
The Borg are all but undefeatable - until they meet the Federation and Species 8472 (and species 8472 had to retreat due to human intervention). This is why Q was so curious about humans and Voyager, I think.
It was a good day to die in this Battle.
TO STO'VO'KOR!!!
why they didnt play the klingon theme when Worf got there...i'll never know
Despite them being cannon fodder all the time, it's still cool seeing Miranda's launching torpedoes throughout the battle.
+Whitestar901 IT's not cannon fodder, They're retrofited.
And yet, they're the ones we see getting destroyed more than most other ships.
Whitestar901 they're first grade, exploration escorts. Not very tough. But the defiant is a much stronger ship.
The Silver Rook I think the mirandas aren't very well retro-fited.
Miranda ships are like the red uniformed ensigns on away missions, they never survive.
The Klingons know how to make an entrance
My favourite character entrance in anything ever and one of my top space battles. 😩😩I fuckin yelled when the Klingons arrived
Congratulations Captain! You wanted them angry! Well they're angry!
The Dominion plan worked a little too well. They thought Sisko was going to send in only a few ships. They didn't expect all of them to come.
And all the ships that broke the hole in the Dominion lines died except for the Defiant. There are so many longshots in the dark that actually connected...right up to literally praying to the gods.
@@LightLegion well 200 ships did make it through a little later.
Even then, if the Klinons don't show up when they did, the Federation fleet gets completely wiped out, including Defiant. It was a stupid roll of the dice by Sisco.
@@LightLegion not all of them died. 200 ships made it through.
Sorry. I meant the ones on the defiant's side.
AND THE KLINGONS COME IN SWINGING!!!!
yeap they were like you started the party without us!!!!
because they epically dive out of the sun and literally disrupt the hell out of an enemy formation.
@Rserlo by far the best of the Star Trek franchises
When the two Miranda-Class ship alongside the Defiant took those hit, all I could do was cringe and go 'ow'.
heheh my favorite is at 2:51 when it looks like that one BoP blows away the other one!
@Mikanojo the nebula classes have secondary pods above the saucer section that can be replaced with enhanced weaponry such as an increased amount of torpedo tubes and stronger phaser banks. during the dominion war federation shipyards had large requests for ships and construction materials so they started patching together ships from spare parts/unrelated ships.
Fighters the way we think of them would be decimated in that kind of battle, to small to carry any significant firepower. You need small maneuverable starships capable of doing hit and runs in squadrons, big enough to arm with decent shields but small enough to weave in and out of enemy lines easy enough. First engagements usually consist of "fighter" ships entering the enemy ranks first softening shields and armor so that some of your heavy hitters can come in and punch holes in the lines.
It's a little grainy but I'm pretty sure at least 1 of the Birds of Prey was destroyed by friendly fire.
+TheScholar74 Indeed. One BoP was destroyed by friendly fire, one got shred by the Jem'Hadar Warship and the third one was caught in the explosion of said Warship.
+TheScholar74 And the funny thing is alot of the models they used for the BoP were hallmark Christmas ornaments to save money
Really? That's funny.
@@ethanforster i am actually surprised they did not use the clip from the undiscovered country to blow up one of the bird of preys.
Bashir @:38 - "It's a trap!!"
Sisko: "Doctor, you are crossing franchises and I will not stand for it. Confine yourself to quarters."
Bashir: "What? What?!? WHAT!!"
Sisko: "Security to the Bridge..."
🤣🤣🤣
Haha
One of the best Fleet Battle to date
Captain, we've got a problem, none of the Miranda class ships remembered to bring their shields with them!
22steve5150 Dominion weapons are capable of penetrating Federation shields. This was established in their first appearance. The Defiant gets around this by using ablative armor.
Lol.
@@toddsmitts No. They didn't have the budget to animate the shields so did it this way.
@@toddsmitts Except one of the Mirandas got ganked by a Cardassian compressor beam...
Cardassians are known for many things, but space technology is not one of them.
Also, the Mirandas are ninety years old, the Excelsiors are eighty years old. B-52's are whippersnappers in comparison.
Star Trek's battle scenes trump those of Star Wars with ease. Nothing more awesome than seeing huge ships vs huge ships. Fighters are nothing but target practice anyway.
+Rivella Light Except the defiant. Defiant's like the best of both worlds.Very Very Powerful but small and maneuverable .
+gamesmaster35 The Defiant is hardly a fighter, not in the Star Wars sense, anyway. It is around 170 meters long, 355,000 metrics tons and classed as an Escort (sometimes Heavy Escort). But the ship's maneuverability puts most starfighters to shame!
See that's the problem I had with the space battles in this show: The Capital Ships maneuvered & fought like fighters rather than like large ships. You lack the sense of scale between the vessels.
Yet the federation has fighters in this battle
The problem with large ships that fly and fight like fighter is that they tend to die like one as well.
Take those 2 Federation ships that escorted the Defiant(I forgot their class) for example, how quick were they got destroyed. Took few shots is enough to destroy them.
And guess how many crew were aboard those ships.
heheh i got one word to lable a trek eppisode with this much action BADASS!!!!
It's a trap!
this show was really good
with the federation battling the dominion i enjoy it.
I got wood when the Klingons came in firing all weapons and pwning the Cardassians.
@Jessico76 Well that's good to know, glad my precious Galaxies survived. I could have sworn the destruction of the Odyssey was like the sinking of the USS Maine, in that it rallied everyone to hate the Dominion and very soon after, it all hit the fan. I still dislike the lack of effective shielding on both sides of the conflict. It just seems more explosion oriented for sake of ratings.
The Klingons brought the pain
Cannon to the right of them, cannon to the left of them, cannon in front of them volleyed and thundered...
Most of them do. The Jem'hadar use alot of different phaser beam/phased poleron beam frequences. Shields can't cope with the majority of shots, to calibrate for one type of fire would open them up to another. The better defence was regenerative shielding and ablative armor (both rare). Coming from two different quadrents, the Jem'hadar didn't have the time to adapt their shields for federation weapons either, so neither side could totally rely upon thier shield technologies.
"IT'S A TRAP" This line is used quit often in sci fi.
Even though they are fighting the cardissians, i like the one on the defiant. He's funny. "You wanted them angry, they're angy." , & "wouldn't this be a good time to cloak?!" lol....
I've heard people say why didn't they just cloak through?
The Dominon were very good at detecting cloaked ships
*****
True, but my point remains, the Dominion were very good at detecting cloaked ships
+Avinash Tyagi The klingons snuck up because they were cloaked. Cloaked was still an advantage since the detection capability of the dominion was sketchy at best. The defiant could have been cloaked the whole time and flew right past enemy lines as they did in other episodes.
Let's face it. A cloaked ship(s) flying to the station and saving the day while the battle was going on would have been the practical solution of any sane commander. Too often in modern television the trend is to have people behave like morons to create action, rather than refining the story. If I were writing it, I would have used the logical cloaked fleet, but added an unforseen obstacle. Like perhaps a cunning second minefield surrounding the one the federation was trying to save. Or something else that would make sense but still create a great storyline. Honestly I think modern writers really just don't have the skills anymore. Look at shows like the walking dead. Growling slow moving zombies sneaking up on people, often in a forest setting with leaves covering the ground? It's pure stupidity lol. Yet every episode, someone gets surprised and bitten lol. It's absurd.
Bill Kennedy Dominion can pierce Cloaks, so it wouldn't help
black star No, the approaching Klingon's warp signatures would have been shielded due to the interference the Dominion was throwing up to prevent the Federation ships from communicating.
Such interference blinds both sides
on a voyager episode it showed a fed ship that was equipped with regenerative shields
"The dominion ships have made a gap in their lines that's an obvious trap!"
"CRAM AS MANY SHIPS INTO THE TRAP AS YOU CAN!"
Worst commander ever.
jarvy251 What’s your alternative to get to DS9 in time?
Agreed. That Galor Class appeared to be focusing upon the vessels that were making for the gap, and they MAY have seen the second Galaxy Class bearing down upon them, but it looks like the first Galaxy Class performed a maneuver that they didn't see coming. I totally agree. It is easily the the best bit.
THis makes me want to play Tactical Battle SImulator...
As tough as the Galore Class Cardassian destroyers were, they COULDN'T withstand the firepower of ONE Galaxy-Class starship, let alone TWO.
And when the Klingons finally arrived, I can just hear Dax thinking: "Who said there's never a Klingon around when you need one...or several Thousand" Hahaha
In the Star Trek game: Klingon Academy (which takes place before Star Trek 6 & General Chang is the instructor)
Here are some weaponry specs:
Weaponry:
Phasers:
1000 type-XII phaser arrays
Torpedoes:
launchers: 90
hellfire: 40
photon: 5200
quantum: 5500
transphaisic: 6
tri cobalt: 10
Shields: MLSS
Indeed, Federation ships did have them. Problem is, it was new and shiny, not standard tech par say. Many ships did not. The one shown in Voyager was an experimental prototype of a class the federation uses for the next 200 years at least, along side the Enterprise J. Obviously a very forward thinking design.
This video has been on UA-cam almost as long as the platform has even existed. Incredible it's managed to stay for this long.
Shouldn't Bashir be in sick bay? I'd think they got at least a few causalties in that battle on their ship.
Is this Star Trek or Star Wars?? Got DAMN!! That's a lot of ships... I bet the guys piloting the ships were having a hell of a time trying not to ram each other :)
RIP NOG
The defiant... Small but leathel. Even a low quality clip of a dim budget effect when there was no real CGI is still exilirating! That's why DS-9 is my favourite Scifi
LOL! Everyone else's voice is abnormally high but Worf still sounds normal! Just gives you an idea of how low his voice was under normal circumstances. Cool clip otherwise.
I keep wondering where the sheilds are on many of those ships, expecially the miranda classes get oneshot almost instantly.
I'm sure the Miranda classes are old but surely they have been retrofitted.
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On the other hand at the same time we had ST: Voyager running with a case of too much shields.
My goodness. Even _Garak_ is glad to see the Klingons arrive.
This battle is awesome, but I really like the battle that took place when the Breen joined the Dominion. That was quite the devastating battle.
I read that Earth Spacedock 1 is technically more powerful than most of the Federation fleet combined. Like DS9, it's armed with 1000's of photon/quantum torpedoes, super powerful phasers... But hell, it got shut down in Star Trek 4 by the WHALE PROBE!! And where was it, when the Borg and Breen reached Earth??
Two more observations. That first Galaxy Class must have really fucked that ship up, because the second one only had to fire two phaser salvos to disable it. They most likely were only trying to disable it, and it's NASTY cannon, so they could save their capacitors for additional vessels. The second observation is that those Galaxy wings were pulling more than their share of the weight, before the Klingons arrived. Way outnumbered. You can tell by their defensive formation maneuvering at 02:22.
As far as "plot armour" goes, Dominion weapons (polaron-based directed energy weapons) are MADE to go through shields... So of course the damn Federation flying frisbees wouldn't get their multi-colored bubbles. Also, as ridiculous as it may seem, shields probably are reliable. However, the Federation is constantly encountering new races which are often vastly superior or inferior to their own. (it kinda makes sense, I mean what are the odds of another race being EXACTLY the same?)
Originally, the Dominion's weapons were an excellent force against Federation Shields. People seem to forget though that Sisko and Crew captured a Dominion Fighter - this gave Starfleet and its engineers something to study, and then develop countermeasures for. Once they had the weapons and could see how they worked, adapting shield technology would likely have been fairly easy, if time consuming.
Its not so much plot armour as it is the Domionion underestimating their enemies injinuity. After 2000 years reigning unchallenged in the Gamma Quadrant, they got really overconfident in their superiority...
Because O'brien can monitor most of the engineering stations from the bridge, and aboard the defiant, he doubles as Ops.
at 1.05 i love how the ship says pick on someone your own size kaboom
@Mikanojo thats why jj has been brought into the picture the ships look more military in my eyes thats what i think they would look like kelvin and the ships at the station not enterprise as its a buitful ship but somewhat too fance for military if u get my meening
talking about Q, I'm surprised with the founders, prophets and such that Q never challenges them to see who the better "God" being is.
Alot of older ships were drawn from mothball fleets and got the best refits they could,after the brief war with the klingons starfleet and had to make up loses of newer ships till replacement could be built. And if you look closer you'll see a Constitution refit/Enterprise class ship too
what I actually think is they just shut down shields so that the battle would end quicker and look cooler. I mean if they all had shields then it would look like Star Trek Legacy with all the ships mashed together. And if they had shields their would be no problem getting past the Dominion ships especially if they dont stay and fight.
A banquet of roasted Carassians with fried Jem Haddar, maybe? Yummy!
You forget that Carriers are giant targets to. Even though carriers carry significant firepower they can be brought down by two or more ships. If you could equip one with a cloak and have it deploy fighters somewhere hidden or deploy fighters and recloak. Something along the lines of the Scimitar from star-trek nemesis.
@brooklyn560 Is that Charge of the Light Brigade?
Don't mess with the Federation.
I would’ve used freighters as shield ships fire ships and torpedo boats given the dominion multiple targets and force them to break up into smaller groups allowing more ships to pass through.
The ships are so crowded in these scenes. At 1:08 there was almost a Galaxy-on-Galaxy collision. Needless to say that, in a 'real' space battle, there would be no point in attempting to meet an enemy in deep space. The offensive fleet could simply fly past the defenders and on to the strategic target. Hell, even *finding* the inbound attackers in the vastness of space would be practically impossible.
"our Galaxy class starships can't repel firepower of that magnitude!!" ;-)
Garak (worried): "Wouldn't this be a good time to cloak?"
O'Brian turns around.
O'Brian: "The cloaking systems fried."
O'Brian turns back.
I love the charakters and the dialogue.
No technobabble, no graviton emitters, no deflector fiddling, just "fried". Just like the best of TOS. :D
Considering the magnitude of this war I never understood why Sisko was't promoted to Admiral. In big wars officers jump ahead in the ranks like Eisenhower going from colonel to general in just a few years.
One concept I always wondered about... Why didn't the Klingons ever have a ship that basically was on the verge of destruction transfer all power to engines, and just hyper-accelerate into the enemies? Death, Glory And Honour! FOR THE EMPIRE!
that is actually a common tactic among klingons. its one of the only reasons that klingons state they have escape pods for
Not bad for Starfleet ships that aren't 100% designed to fight.
It's Q, he probably already knew.
1 Glorious Heritage Class would have decimated the Dominion.
320 MPS(19,200 MPM) with 100 times the range.
Like most film space battles it is ridiculous. The sheer speed of these ships and the vastness of space, and they are all bunched together like idiots leaving to room to maneuver! Cannon fodder, a delightful target.
@Mikanojo Sisko sent waves of fighters that didn't do anything. Dedicated carriers/fighters are probably LESS useful than most other ships. Dreadnoughts? The Galaxies get a bad rap for seeming like explodey space hotels on TNG, but that's more due to lazy threat-of-the-week writing. In the Dominion War there were more DEFIANTS(2) that died onscreen than Galaxies(1) despite there only being 3 Defiants. Warships? The Klingons/Roms/Cards/Dominion all seemed to go boom just as well as the Fed.
@douglovestheinternet Tachyon detection grids in addition to simple factors that the enemy fleet would still have to be dealt with.
I'm flagging this for violence against Miranda class starships
congratulations captain, you wanted them angry not theyre angry hahaha
lol 0:37 Bashir channels Admiral Ackbar
Shields would be quickly reduce if there was like 5 ships firing at 1 ship at once
You know I never understood why that klingon Bird of Prey is shooting the other Bird of Prey? Someone messed up when making the CGI, heh.
How does warp speed work? Couldn't the just have warped around or even through that entire battle field all the way to DS9?
if Rian Johnson directed this episode he would have had the enterprise warp into the fleet on a suicide mission kek ;P
You are absolutely right. Star trek treats space like a 2d ocean. But that's OK. It's part of the enjoyment of getting to see battles like this.
But yea, warp at an angle above the dominion fleet a short distance. Reorient. Warp to deep space nine.
Warping to the right or left of the dominion fleet would also have worked, if space were 2d but still space-sized; there are quite a few problems with this really.
That said you can still have big space battles like this with relatively realistic mechanics, just with one fleet defending some planet or other fixed point. In this situation, they could've had the battle occur within weapons range of DS9 and the Wormhole (such that anyone warping in behind the Dominion forces to attack DS9 and prevent them from clearing the minefield would have still been within range of Dominion weapons), and still had Sisko try to lead forces pushing through to attack the minesweepers.
I think the idea was to tie up the Dominion fleet out of range of DS9, and have a group punch thru to attack the station without distraction
The only thing that PISSED me off about DS9 was how they reused a lot of these battle scenes a year later on the last ep!
I strongly believe the producers wanted bigger battles for Deep Space Nine, but realized it would be too expensive and prolonged. So they came up with this 'shields no longer work' crap so they no longer had to animate shields or write long, detailed 1v1 engagements. I suppose both types of combat are exciting, but every time I see a Galaxy or Akira blow up, I die a little.
@rtds9fan Agreed, rtds9fan. Nothing sends a message like "We just want to save money and end the show already". Nice job, Paramount! The actors made up for it and the finale was still enjoyable. Best series still.
Did they seriously think no one would notice? It was irritating during the movies for the first half of STII to use STI footage. The list goes on. Don't cheat the fans. They keep you in business!
Looks exactly like the video I edited way back when. Sounds ok to me.
@skycaprob He was brought in to make a big budget action movie. It was a great film, but it was something NONE of the other Trek movies have had going for them. His budget was like twice that of any other Trek movie. And he had the added benefits of handpicking his cast rather than having to work with what a TV show could get.
It definitely wasn't to make the ships more military looking. That was just him cribbing on Star Wars of which he talks glowingly.
Ah garak you still get the best lines
Isnt it sad the one person that could have things so much easier , was always forgotten?
Data hooked up to the battle network.