What about a family where all siblings and parents compartmentalize? Any tips? They don't discuss anything controversial, all avoid conflict to the point of no closeness or true caring no matter how much one tries.
Also, I'm curious as to how much experience anyone has had with abusive family systems in which two or more siblings seemingly miraculously develop a close, healthy, intimate relationship in the midst of all of that toxicity. One example would be Gilbert and his oldest sister Amy, and also Gilbert and his younger brother Arnie, in the novel What's Eating Gilbert Grape. The novel is what focuses on the relationship between Gilbert and Amy--the movie skims over that. Also, Gilbert and Arnie's relationship is definitely not perfect because it's quite tainted by ableism (Arnie is intellectually disabled and chronically ill). An even better example would be Celie and her younger sister Nettie in the novel The Color Purple. The girls's stepfather--whom they believe is their biological father until they learn differently as adults--got Celie pregnant twice when she was in her teens. There is a scene where Celie catches him looking at Nettie and so she seduces her stepfather to protect Nettie. That scene was used to establish just how close the sisters were.
@@bonnie_wood6782 I think every toxic family that isn’t called out compartmentalizes and hides away their abusive, toxic sh@t and gets away with it when no one is there (beyond the one person) to speak up.
@@messinalyle4030 What’s Eating Gilbert Grape is one of my favorite movies because of how much I could see my family in it. However, I don’t think it’s a close sibling relationship, it is parentification in the worst way. Gilber has no choice, it’s his family role to keep shit together. In The Color Purple, also a favorite, I felt like either girl could have turned on her sister over a guy at any point of tension because of their desperation to be loved and accepted, but that could totally be my sibling dynamics talking.
Absolutely!!! My oldest sister and brother were mine..my much older brother even being physically abusive without consequence. How often I wonder ppl ignore sibling abuse..
Yup! I agree with what Patrick said about the dynamic between siblings being more devastating than the relationship with the parents because you feel like you're supposed to be on the same team. And your sibling is usually your first friend in life. Your first peer. And you're part of the same generation.
Yes! My brother was the WORST! And my mother never believed me. He was always the favorite. Now as an adult he's always in trouble for domestic violence
@@carris2scents57 It's terrible! My mom still caters to my brother and he's mentally abusing her. Excuses. Always excuses. He's put his hands on my throat so many times as a teenager and she yelled at him and grabbed him but there was NEVER repercussion. Didn't get kicked out, no cops, nothing. "Let it go, he's your brother and loves you." 😵 NOT LOVE!!! He's not allowed in my life anymore.
You are unfortunately so right. It is a vicious circle. And if you try to give them advice and say to them, seek for help and professional advice, they hate you more and more and do not believe that you just want to help the family to get a better life. They can not imagine that they really are loved from the sibling, that they attack. It is always on a competition level and no together. If you are successful they are in rage and try everything to destroy your good life and your success. It is endless suffering and has the potential to kill very lovely adorable persons, that try everything to do the best for others. When an empath meets an narcisst, the empath is the looser. And nobody prepares children for this stuff. Nobody warns you about this! You understand everything, when it is to late and your life ist completely down and broken. Some siblings live in the end alone, poor and really sick and isolated. It is really very important, to look at this point and help the siblings that get "friendly fire" and toxic shot day by day and nobody believes them. Nobody understands, that this are potentionally can kill you, because you find a exit, expect commiting sucide. Take care for yourself and for others, that do not know about this issues and stand alone and do not know, how they can become happy. In the end it is sometimes the only solution, to go and let them do, what ever they want. You tried everything, everything failed and there is nothing more you can do, just leaving the scene. And this is heartbreaking to loose the family members, one by one and you can not stop this program.
@@cc1k435They actually do. My mother was a teacher, but she would compare me to my older sister, even though we both respected her... As adults sadly we didn't leave the house entirely, but at least we didn't let her harsh words get entirely the best of us.
Absolutely. 2 out if 5 of us kids moved very far away. 2 have continued the cycle feeling entitled and very arrogant in their belief that committing disgusting abuse on their targeted sibling/s is not only acceptable but it is ‘normal’. And certainly justified to do it to the siblings own kids, even before that sibling calls out the toxic dysfunction of the narcissists in the family. Yeah, when my CN sister, who had been wearing a mask as soon as she got engaged at 22, and at 55 years old went straight for my own family members as soon as our mother died, I realized she is truly sick in the head. She was violent and abusive and unsafe to be around unless fully supervised until she was 22, and at 55 she is the same. My husband heard her ‘true ugly’ in our last phone call 2 years ago. My bff saw her ‘true ugly’ growing up and did not like her. Always encouraged me to not go near her. My bff is very smart.👍🏼. It’s unfortunate my older brothers are still being deceived by this pos. At least my kids know she is a pos and will have nothing to do with her as she is once again unhinged and unsafe to be around.
Thank you. ❤ I am the one person in my family who is the truth seeker, who has done the work to recover. I am also the scapegoated child. I'd rather be healthy and alone than stay in the unhealthy family system. 🙏
same... its lonely tho for me, as I vowed never to marry, never be like my mom, never have kids I might abuse like parents did us. Now I'm old & it's lonely! (Still don't want them in my life tho!) 😌
OMG when he said 'the main perpetrator may be a sibling who exhibits sociopathic or highly manipulative behavior' I had to pause the video. I was blown away. Maybe I've been doing therapy wrong because I've never heard this addressed or expressed so clearly. The focus tends to be on abuse or neglect from parents, which is understandable. However, in my family all the roles shifted around my brother's personality. This included my mom, who seemed more like she was in the trenches with the rest of us rather than the parent. When Patrick said that, I felt like he opened the door of my childhood home and peeked inside, naming the thing that we never talk about.
Agree. My middle brother was the abusive sibling and the one who garnered all the attention with his delinquent behavior. We were all still very close but knew our roles. He never would talk about it. The baby bro and I do. That’s the healthiest.
Sibling issues are definitely not talked about enough. Personally our problem is that we don't communicate that much, we're basically strangers or something and it hurts because it's hard expressing emotions in our household because of it
I was mentally, emotionally and on some occasions physically abused by my older sister who is 10 years older, especially during early childhood and my teen years, and well into adulthood. Though I may understand the reasons why it occurred, I have not forgiven her. Especially since she is older and always acts like she knows everything. The saddest thing is that my family is such toxic trash with zero emotional intelligence but I’m the youngest and the one with the most emotional intelligence (not that much but way more than them). I was and still am CONSTANTLY silenced when needing to make my point across, yet they’re always looking for my advice when it benefits them. I hate my family. This is the first time I’ve ever expressed it. It took a long time for me to realize the effects of all I’ve been through it’s sad but feels good to get it out.
I had this experience this past weekend with my brother the day after MY WEDDING!! We both felt the same way but had different reasoning for it.. we never had that type of admission with each other before. I hope we can work out our differences.
I never wanted to see this in my siblings and it is one of the worst feelings in the world when you realize the hurt they’ve caused and how disappointing to know that nobody loved you in the entire family system and nobody knew how, we just kept each other company in fear, terror, pain and suffering.
Oh, yes. Nobody loved anyone. We pretended when we were in society. I was so confused, but I knew that we weren't the same when we were at home. And I was terrified most of the time.
Thanks for saying this...i am finally realizing this sad reality as one of the outcomes of my sisters recent death...and i have been wondering for years why i feel work , social circles, neighbors..".out to get me" ...used to feel mistrust of my world and it has escalated
I am the youngest, and while I was the "good girl" and "golden child", I also identify as the scapegoat when I started to call out the toxicity in the family, and therefore become the "problem".
I was the opposite... Despite being the youngest, I was the scapegoat and got told how lazy, selfish or irresponsible I was. My older sister was viewed as the golden child in the family. Had the good qualities I never had.
Same here!!!! Younger me was the “golden child” but now that I’m older I’m the “bossy , know it all , controlling, cold hearted, self centered bitch” None of which is accurate even when I was young. I literally supported each brother and attempted to be a positive female tole model since our mother wasn’t interested in doing so.
I can relate 💯! My little brother has been off of the chain when my dad died. Narcissistic mom lets him do anything. He's a recovering heroin addict and my mom took him and my sister to Las Vegas when my little brother turned 30. I didn't do anything for my 40th. My little brother did tell me though that I'm a waste of money. He traumatize my child so much on Christmas that he pooped his pants. He told my son "running from me is not an option" so I stood between he and my son so that my son would know that I will be there to protect him and I won't let him ever put his hands on him or talk that way. I don't want my child to be traumatized like I was with nobody sticking up for me.
As a child that grew up in foster care, separated from my sibling who is now full of rage, I am so grateful for you and the time you take with us subscribers. Thank you.
I’m the only one who’s worked on things and I finally “divorced” them. I don’t want it anymore and it’s ok to say, “No, I don’t like this and I don’t want this in my life.” Choose self love, healing and growth. 😊❤
Scapegoating doesn't work. You are never responsible for the actions of those who actually caused the harm. You can't put your sins off onto a goat and send it to die in the desert. You still have the fact that you're the perpetrator if you've done such heinous things (not you, personally...just speaking in general).
Man, where do I start? My oldest & only sister was parentified & "escaped" early. I don't remember much of her in our childhood & she now makes up stories about what it was like. She is now the keeper of the castle as she is the cosigner for our father's finances & he calls her for anything he may need. Even though we all live in the same town, she scapegoats me, or did, for her ongoing issues. Her husband is a grumpy over-drinker, she has dated & now is married to drug addicted or alcoholic men only. But if it looks good from the outside: a Neurosurgeon & now married to an attorney, then it must be good! Her only child, my niece has had two DUI convictions. Her mother enables her as well by bailing her out & never setting limits. I am now estranged from my niece as well due to my sister's bad mouthing of me. My sister & I are now estranged. My oldest brother was the perpetrator of cruelty. Of course he was also scapegoated by our father & he in turn scapegoated me. He is an angry, abusive lost man now. The golden child died in an auto accident when I was 17, he was 19 & home visiting for the holidays when it happened. My youngest brother was the lost child & was often infantalized. Financially suported by our parents & allowed to live at home long after our father had kicked me out. Our mother died 3.5 years ago after a ten year addiction to opiates. Of course they were prescribed by her rheumatologist, so it was okay. I was the only sib to confront her about her drug use. She had been a counselor in a methadone maintenance clinic for 20 years prior to her retirement & addiction. Currently I am the sole sib in recovery from ALL of this.
@@kathymc234 you need to reread what I wrote. BIG difference between being RX'd opioids for pain & being an opioid addict taking way too large of a dose for your size & weight. No where in my comment do I address her pain or lack thereof.
I really identify with being the sibling that never looked back. I feel like I should be there for my little sister who is still in the toxic system being abused, but just talking to her reminds me of all the trauma and everything I used to hate about myself when I lived with them. I used to be someone else because of the trauma. It hurts to remember it all.
I saw this comment and relate 110%. Im the older sister who broke away 3 years ago from my family. It caused them pain and they lashed out on my younger sister. I want to be there for her but I feel like I cant because it is painful for both of us.
I feel like that little sister, I am a little sister actually. Maybe that's why my brothers don't talk to me about almost anything substantial. They were not raised to know how to talk introspectively, I had to teach myself and be my own emotional support system, so I can talk to myself and be here with myself through all this. It really hurts to have had to accept that to many siblings, they are just people who we had to compete with for attention and love growing in the same environment. I obviously understand why you don't want to retrigger yourself or compromise your safety, you deserve to be safe. And in ideal world that we deserve, there should have been other systems in place to help your sister, like accessible therapy or shelters or healthcare. I am that little sister still trapped in a toxic abusive system, and I don't know how or when I will get out but I hope it's sooner rather than later. I hope we all get the help we desperately need and deserve.
@@UnicornUniverse333 you sound like an extraordinary individual to have experienced what u have and to achieve the self awareness you have gained. I actually don't believe many on here express even a tiny percentage of the pain and trauma they have and still continue to deal with due to the shame affiliated to it. There is power in being able to remove yourself from a situation like this. But the real power comes from what u do next. Most don't actually do very well. But due to the guilt/shame complex never admit it. I'm admitting it. My life's a mess at 43. I have wonderful attributes, but terrible flaws Resulting from what's happened. It's easy to go through life remaining a victim, believing everyone's out to get you. But strength comes from acknowledging that, and understanding there are good people in the world. The most important thing is the way the world appears...is pointless...unless we deal with looking at ourselves, accepting and loving ourselves regardless. Because we project this.We are worth it. God made us extraordinary. It's just a case of believing it, especially after so much trauma. You are worth it.
This video really hits home in so many ways. As someone who cut off contact from my family from age 20 - 32, then tried to rebuild the relationship with them from age 32 - 51… but with a healed heart, healed inner child and hyper awareness of what a chaotic, toxic and dysfunctional dynamic looks and feels like - every encounter was exhausting and poisonous. I felt like I betrayed myself over and over again because our relationship was so inauthentic. I wanted something real and transparent. My family wanted drama and compliance. My sister morphed into a maniacal tyrant who I would not trust because her contrary to her words, her actions displayed her jealousy and resentment towards me. There is freedom and great healing that result from choosing to live a life without chaos and drama.
@@rdg6543 Yes. It was more painful to want an authentic relationship with someone who I loved but who sent clear messages that she resented me and viewed me as her adversary. I have accepted it and released her with love. Are you experiencing something similar?
@@Keepingitreallyreal my initial response to your response was written to wrong person. Sorry if you started reading it and it didn't fit. I deleted it. It was another thread. No, currently I am not experiencing this myself. Unfortunately, this must be a common thing bc I am observing it with a close friend, and the injustice of it feels unbearable at times. What we deserve is often not what we get. Learning about space boundaries is new to me and am dealing with a hurtful mil that I've had to incorporate some space boundaries with. But my particular situation is different than yours. I am really sorry you've been hurt like this.
yikes, well at least you know you tried, and unfortunately it sounds like they may have inherited narcissism from your parents. You can be at peace now.
"Runs from the reality of it" isn't limited to just siblings. I see a lot of (former) friends do this too (repress emotions). Everything HAS to be okay. It's half safe talking to them. And they're not fully comfortable with you setting boundaries with other people that you mentioned to them. Feels like fake support.
Please do a video on how intimacy (sexual AND physical touch amongst non sexual partners) is affected for those who have CPTSD, and how we can work past it?
There is a kind of massage that targets these topics, it called traumatic touch massage. I did some training as one, they can be hard to find but very worthwhile.
I feel like the most important reason for me to find compassion by understanding that my siblings also went through that trauma, and also with others in my life, was that by understanding that the behavior that they may be directing at me are actually their own survival responses to their trauma. In no way does that excuse their behavior or mean that I'm supposed to sit there and take it, but being able to see it almost from an observer viewpoint instead of being caught up in the midst of someone's projected insecurity due to trauma has allowed me to accept that their behavior, while directed at me, is not actually ABOUT me, so it's easier for me to forgive them instead of carrying resentment around forever. I no longer take their behavior/accusations as personal and instead can see where they're coming from while also continuing to set boundaries to protect myself from the abuse, and I think both of those things have been major, major aspects of my healing. Reminding myself it's not about me has really kept me from falling back into a shame mindset!
THIS! My sister is so mad at my brothers. Where as I understand we all had our own ways of dealing with the generational trauma in our family and so I understood the idiosyncrasies of their personalities and try to move forward. My sister is SO pissed that I am choosing to forgive and forget. She sees me as a traitor for it and now doesn't talk to anyone. It's like she NEEDS to be perpetually mad with her, and I just can't. I have to put it to rest, and she is so mad that I am doing that.
The part about the sibling that “never looked back” seeing you as the symbol of all of the trauma makes so much sense to me. All these years later, I’m still not even considered for an invite to when the rest of my family gets together. (We are all in perfect standing with each other, grown and past it all. No strife at all.) I’d bet any amount of money that I’m the reminder of the trauma for the whole family. They all (seemed) to never look back and I struggled for many years. This really helps to understand bc the lack of any invitation for my entire adult life has always been a painful mystery. Maybe I can just mourn the loss and begin to heal on this part of it.
Wow. My mother recently passed away, and six of us siblings are going through major struggles as we settle the estate. There was much to think about in your video! I hope we can go forward without becoming estranged. We are children of a narcissist.
I wish you luck, my family was also terrorized by a narcissist mother and a enraged absent father. We fit this mold perfectly. The final weeks of her life were absolute chaos. The golden child took control, even though she wasn’t power of attorney or executrix. ( Mother knew the monster she created, but fell for the siren song.) What she (the golden child) did was unforgivable, and unforgettable.
My sister and I come from a large family and we're working together on the trauma we experienced as kids. The other siblings have no clue and think we're just "disloyal" or "resentful for the wrong reasons" so we keep these conversations and the work we're doing to ourselves ♥️ Thank you for the work you do Patrick, we absolutely love your calm and super informative videos!!!
My older sister was the scapegoat. I believed my parents' lies about it being her fault. Now that I've moved out and I've gone no-contact with our dad, she is saying that her relationship with our parents has really improved. She demonstrated this improvement by participating in our dad's abuse of my girlfriend. She sees herself as a victim and a survivor, but she doesn't want to admit that any abuse happened in the family. When something happens that inconveniences her, she assumes that it was done with malicious intent and lashes out at the source. Some months ago, I was having pain and asked her if we could meet up somewhere a little closer to me than usual so I wouldn't have to drive as far. She switched moods instantly and started yelling that I was trying to manipulate her and that I didn't understand all that she sacrificed so she could meet with me for brunch. I am so tired of walking on eggshells every time we talk. I can't build a healthy relationship with someone who unapologetically hurts me when I ask for help.
my sister also takes it personally when I have any kind of need. The only time she would cave is if someone else backs me up, but she also tries to walk it back as soon as it's no longer convenient. So, i think she's just trying to look good for others. And she, really seems to think for some moronic reason, to think that she has NO CLUE why I wouldn't want to be around her (I'm NC). Wow, why would a functioning human being want to constantly have their needs and boundaries questioned and denied. Huh, w e i r d
This is such a fantastic video. Thank you, Patrick, for your work. My husband’s family is dysfunctional and it’s been difficult marrying into this dynamic. My sister in law is the diplomat/agent/enabler/hero. Whenever I set boundaries against my mother in law, SIL says “she’s not going to change” , and of course she won’t change if people keep enabling her! SIL actually called me a bully for confronting MIL about her manipulation and selfishness. My husband for years would emotionally (and sometimes physically) leave to avoid dealing with MIL. So this made me the “truth teller/scapegoat.” SIL is also the Smart And Competent One, so this means the rest of us must be helpless idiots, despite us having successful careers, etc. If I do something well, it is either ignored, discouraged, disparaged. Or I’m showing off . My response to being treated this way is to go very low contact. When I have to be around my husband’s family, I will often gray rock but sometimes point out BS and hypocrisy. I have given up on having a normal relationship characterized by mutual care and respect.
I have a similar relationship with my MIL but we can't even be around each other anymore. She totally scapegoats me. My husband is stuck in the middle😢.
Somewhere I read the phrase “the ghost and the hungry child” in reference to a family trauma dynamic. The adult hungry child can’t stop seeking love and connection from the adult ghost, who always stands aside and can never trust or be vulnerable. I’ve been there.
Neither one of my siblings have ever been honest about our childhood but they didn’t get the worst of it, they were mostly bystanders to the constant abuse that I suffered. Im invalidated constantly by the enabling parent and one of the siblings who “just ran away from it and pretends it never happened.
Thank you for bringing these complicated issues to light. I have learned more about my own childhood trauma from you and The Crappy Childhood Fairy in the last few months than in all the counseling I've had in the last three decades. This video really hit home, especially when you spoke of the loneliness we can feel when these systems alienate us from our siblings. I almost resent people with close sibling bonds at times. You have a way of making these very complex issues more accessible to understanding. I am grateful to you.
You expressed my reaction so well. Thank you. (I also watch CCF) This particular video was the one that broke through my inability to get past the horrific guilt and self-hate that I have lived with for so long. It made me understand intellectually. Now I have to emotionally/psychologically deeply accept what happened in order to forgive myself.
@@nancybartley4425 we are on the same journey and with a lot of others, too. These wonderful people, Patrick and Anna, have given us the gift of a bridge to self forgiveness. I wish you well on the path.
Holy moly. This was incredibly helpful to me. The part where you talked about a parental death felt personal lmao. When we were packing up my father's stuff, my sister and I had a huge blowout. I truly feel that somewhere inside me, I finally was able to release all of those feelings once my father died. My father already survived cancer so a lot of the time I felt I had to show him and display to him my siblings and I had a good relationship because he could pass anytime and he wanted his kids to get along. When he died, I finally felt free of that facade
I needed to hear this. I have 2 siblings and we were all abused by our parents. I asked my sister what she wanted the other day, and she said she wanted us to reconcile and become a happy family. This is after my many attempts at explaining to her how my parents were mistreating me, and how it made me depressed and suicidal. And she was still like "You should be more understanding, our parents just didn't know any better" And on some days she's like "I want to cut them (our parents) off". I feel misunderstood and betrayed to some level every time she sides with our parents. Because why is she protecting them when I'm out here battling mental illnesses because of what they did to me (or us) and are still doing?
In our family of 7, we have what I’ve always referred to as the “no competition clause”. No child can “be” or even explore what another sibling has been labeled as in the family. Oldest sister is the scientist, next is the educator, the musician, the slacker (me) the genius, the son ( only boy and receiver of all family wealth: the farm, the good ole farm), the baby. By the time I came along, all the good roles were already filled. The one thing I was good at was a direct competition with the mother. She was known as a great artist, but even though I showed early bent towards the visual arts, I was never given any encouragement, “you’d better just get a job at the market, you aren’t that smart.” And, “I will not sign the financial aid forms if you are enrolling in any art classes” In college, even though I was very interested in science, I felt I couldn’t study it because the role was taken. Couldn’t be a teacher, not only not smart enough but also Not suited for it, supposedly. In middle and HS, I could play the flute, but was always 5 th chair…which was really sitting behind the drums, waiting for my turn to use the one flute we rented for two kids. Very small school so no second band class to be in. I see families who are close and feel grief that we were never allowed to be anything but competition for each other. I’m the one who is digging out of our abuse story and the only one who chose not to use corporal punishment on my kids. (And they are wonderful human beings, but I wish they were closer to each other). I once texted the sister I’m closest to asking if she also noticed how feelings are not something we deal with as a family…and she skipped over responding. Just blithely went on to the next subject. And I’m finally, in my 40s & 50s, using my gift working as a technical illustrator, and I’m good at it. I just wish I had been allowed to get into it when I was young. So much was lost in experience and learning. And I wish my mom didn’t pick apart my work on the rare occasion that I get brave enough to share it with her.
Thank you for this!! For years I've not been able to figure out why i quit or gave up on activities. Years ago, i finally got up enough courage to join a ballroom dancing class. One night after class, we all went to a club to practice. While standing at the bar with friends, a strange man grabbed my hair & started sniffing as he rubbed it against his face.(It was past my waist at that time) I was horrified. The rest of the night i was shaking & traumatized. Later, when i got home i called to tell her what had happened & how upset i was... She responded with "you deserved it, you were basically prostituting yourself and got what you deserved.." 😳
I didn't know that my BPD mother had been competing with me for most of my life until recently. And after I started to notice what she was doing, I realized that she had been placing obstacles in my way for as long as I could remember. She was green with envy and still is, even though she didn't really do anything to mitigate her own damages. I'm telling you this because I used to think the same thing -- it's a shame that I lost all that time -- but IMO, if you had been in art school then, she would have just sabotaged you. She would have gotten sick with a life threatening illness or some other obstacle that would have been difficult for you to overcome at that age. I personally believe we are always in the right place at the right time. You can pursue that freely now. Hope that helps!
@@aking3624 She was sabotaging you. I have stopped telling my toxic mother anything because she does stuff like this. The less they know, the harder it is for them to take shots at you. It's been my observation that being emotionally neutral around her (I'm staying with her because of the pandemic and her financial sabotage -- long story) keeps her attacks away and the drama at bay. I am also just at the point now where I've just had enough and I tell her to go away and leave me alone, because I'm not interested in playing along with her lies anymore.
I was 15 when I cut my hair and asked my mom and dad how it looked. Neither one looked at me or spoke to me. I was invisible. My father later admitted that he wasn't allowed to answer me because my mom was jealous and thought he favored me. Which worked out because she hated me and favored my bother and the golden child baby sister.
OMG Patrick you are the therapists for me. After years trying to figure my siblings and why I am the only one who has any interest in healing from the terrific childhood trauma. I had actually figured out how each one was affected and keep it to myself because they can't even admit our " perfect family on the outside" is actually textbook example of a dysfunctional family. I prefer to have no relationship with two of my brothers completely and the other brother it can never be close (he is the one who got away and came back to the area with his intended bride. He is also the diplomat, workaholic and executor of my parents estate) I was labelled greedy and I am the only one who has not seen the wil, I trust I got my share even though all their belongings were spoken for or taken before I got there ( excluding items listed in the will ) The details of the disposition would astonish you. Then shortly after was family Christmas which convinced me it was time to greive and move on.
My family dysfunction centered on my brother, who was enabled- but I think that’s because my parents were afraid of his feelings, more than because he was the favorite. My other siblings aren’t really willing to see the reality of it, which has left me feeling pretty alone. Thank you for making these kinds of resources.
Patrick's description of a "healthy family system" is totally ALIEN to me. Totally outside of my experience. What he says about "divide & conquer dynamic being inflicted by parent(s) against siblings" with the result the sibling connection "being ruined" is So true for me and the younger brother I grew up with. We were never really able to heal it before he died 2 1/2 years ago. He rarely was able to talk about what happened to us---unless he was super drunk. He carried on the family tradition of alcoholism--that eventually killed him. I've always felt guilty that I couldn't "save" him.
I really appreciated how you mentioned that as siblings we were "witnesses." I cant put into my own words what I feel, but this lecture really resonated in my soul. Thank you.
Thank you for this, for being here with your personal AND professional experience to help me heal this past year. Edit to note my progress: I wish my family well from afar, but I now understand that I should be my own ally instead of my own burden. As for my younger siblings, I forgive them and myself because it’s true that not everyone you start with can come with you to the finish line. I hope they get to know what it feels like some day.
The sibling who never looked back!! That's totally my situation with my younger brother :( our mother gaslighted both of us against eachother & we have not been able to connect.
Fascinating. I never knew how to decode my family's dynamics. I can definitely see myself as the 'runner' and 'the diplomat' - but only after having had enough of my parents' dysfunction. After years of being a parent to my parents (ages 12 to 25) I left, and moved across the country, establishing boundaries to stop wasting myself as the first-responder to each new crisis they faced. I felt (and still feel) guilty that doing so meant my younger brother (and his wife and family) became the new point of contact / crisis managers, while I could stay away and just throw money at my parents' problems, from a distance, for the last 20 years. Part of my healing has been to write a letter to my brother to thank him and his family for what they did, and what they sacrificed, during that time. I think that I'm on draft 300 at this point.
Time stamps 7:03 : sibling that attacks 9:22 : The sibling that never looked back 11:07 : Enabled/protected sibling 13:09 runs from the reality of it 15:29 they need parenting from you 17:24 The lion's den 19:29 Diplomatic 21:02 Oblivious golden child
I'm eldest of three. One never looks back, and the other needs me to parent. As a child, I was raised to keep the family together after their deaths. My parents were troubled and abusive on so many levels. I turned 70 last year, I finally gave up on trying to heal our relationships. I stopped playing mother to my siblings. I've done many things for them (housed them, lent them money, introduced them to activities/interests, house and pet sat while one travelled etc), now, I've pleasantly resolved to stay in contact and catch-up (visit them) once a year. Every social media contct is initiated by me between the yearly visit. I'm too old to play mother anymore. Thanks for this. It explains a lot.
Thank you for this great insight. Although we live in an imperfect and broken world, there is still much enchantment. I see these types (and combinations of the types) of sibling issues in my own family. After nearly 20 years of therapy, reading self-help books at a young age and now listening to mental health professionals such as yourself and others, I practice a delicate detachment and I have abandoned the fantasy of wanting my siblings and parents to get in touch with their feelings. By taking that approach, I notice that I experience more contentment and less exhaustion when I'm in their presence.
This overwhelms me to the point of physical nausea. So much sibling trauma that I have to take one small bite at a time. Ugh! Every single thing I have experienced!
I can see my parents, my sister and I, and my children in these descriptions. I tried so damn hard to break the cycle but I couldn't do it in time. We all pay for it.
It seems that kids caught up with their parents abuse, pitted against one another, often suffer crippling moral injuries. Have you found this to be the case?
Yes. This. I do not care about the loss of my parents-they are toxic lost causes. But I deeply grieve the loss of my siblings, who chose to side with my parents and cut me off for not falling in line and keeping to my role as the responsible family caretaker and scapegoat.
i feel immense guilt that didn’t hit for years for the mockery i inflicted on my brother regarding our family “value” of being naturally smart and doing perfectly in school being the sole most important thing in life - i called him stupid our entire childhood. we swapped roles as scapegoat and golden child for years (he was my dads golden child until i left for college). i feel like a moral wasteland. i call and apologize to him when drunk sometimes. he doesn’t want to hear about it, he pretends it all never happened and cannot process emotions at all
@@ghostworld11123 Same here. I allowed him to bully and insult me our entire adult life, because I was so mean to him when we were kids. When I told my mother why I never retaliated, and just let him do it, she said, “Well you can just stop that right now!” It wasn’t that easy. I had to go no-contact with him, but we are old, and he had some health issues, and he’s now more agreeable. I have carried that guilt nearly to the finish line, but I’m too old to carry it now, and I’ve done too much penance that I didn’t need to do.
Wow, amazing. I’ve never heard anyone break this dynamic down like this and it perfectly describes the relationship between myself and my two sisters. We are older now and the most distant we’ve ever been. Interestingly enough the golden child and over achiever want no part in looking after their aging parents but feel it is my life’s duty. I don’ think our relationship will ever be the same. I am thankful for your videos and enjoy the content you create. Thank you.
this made me realize im number 4 through and through. shut down when my siblings try to talk about things, and terrified of conflict. im going to therapy and learned to manage conflict in the workplace and with my friends, but my family is still something so hard to confront for me
i'm glad my brother and i worked through our issues with each other... i had severe adhd as a kid and so i always was focused on as the "problem" child. to my brother, i was always having excuses be made by our parents when i would do something wrong and was the center of attention. to me, my brother was given more leniency and got to live free from under a microscope. i got too much attention and he didnt get enough. we both wanted what the other had because we were equally miserable...
My siblings have been so invalidating when it comes to the physical and mental abuse I suffered at the hands of my mother. I am the scapegoat and oldest sibling. My mother tried to give me up for adoption and resented that child services persuaded her to take me home. In a way, I wish I was adopted. But I have been on my healing journey for the last 15 years. No contact 5 years and I have not looked back. Feeling better year by year. Feel reborn. These videos by Patrick really help to validate thst I am on the right track.
For some of us the motivation of , “ the morally right thing to do” cannot be overestimated . Me and my siblings were raised as Christians with Christian values. I feel these values are being exploited by the spiritual leader/parent to serve the parent.
I had Christian values shoved on me to silence me. “turn the other cheek” was said to me by Dad while at the same time Dad was lashing at me every day. “forgive” was just to shut me up. Everything he could do to manipulate me-he did. He tried to murder me multiple times…but “thou shall not kill” was also put on me. I guess he hoped I would not be vengeful.
Omg, your Debbie Downer "wah wah" had me laughing. I just said that yesterday, lol. In my family, I was the scapegoat and my brother was the golden child. My trauma manifested into substance use disorder, and I feel like my brother died inside witnessing my demise. He is now a Trump supporter, and it's devastating to me. Fortunately I've been able to recover after learning about narcissistic abuse and toxic family systems from videos like these. I worry my brother will never be able to face his own trauma. He's so detached, and it's just all very sad. Thank you for offering much needed support through your content.
I'm black and a trump supporter and the scapegoat of the family. I had my own father tell me Trump should be killed as well as his supporters. He wouldn't take it back. This is after I sent him my credit card so he could buy gas and put food on the table, all while I was recovering from a bone marrow transplant (Leukemia). My cousin's and uncles during our zoom thanksgiving call were praying and thanking Biden saying and I quote "now we are free". They are all college educated, white collar professionals. I've had my grandparents and cousins tell me I hated being black because I chose to judge people based on actions, not skin color. I've been further ostracized from my family because I won't see myself as a victim because of the color of my skin. I just want to be free and left alone, but I can't do that without being shamed by everyone.
This topic was a heartbreaker for me. As the eldest and only girl with 3 brothers living with young parents who displayed zero affection. Mother used her stonewalling and gaslighting as a form of communication and dad was seen as the aggressor with bouts of verbal & physical abuse. I became aware of this toxic environment immediately and was thrusted into a role of mother & father emotionally. I tried being everything for my brothers. Big sister, friend and sometimes a parental figure to shield them from what I saw was emotional abuse. The mother has been playing the victim for decades and has used and pitted her sons against me but it has only been obvious to me after cutting the family off 3 years ago. Her silent treatment has been more abusive and conniving over the years than my fathers abusive yelling growing up. She has played the victim in every aspect of her life and has convinced my brothers to be the Madonna who does no wrong. My brothers have been conditioned to never overstep their boundaries or say anything truthful about how we grew up. That would be ‘disrespectful.’ I have been the scapegoat, black sheep and always told to ‘get over it’ which is the family motto. Sweeping everything under the rug. She has turned my brothers against me and it breaks my heart…
Yes, my brother was the golden child and as envious as I was, it destroyed him inside 😢 being the scapegoat was a hidden blessing because I did get therapy
Thank you for sharing your gift with us, Patrick. Each video makes me feel seen, understood, and less lonely in the world. No one truly gets it unless they lived the experience.
Hit the nail on the head once again, wow! I tried to talk about the dynamics as an adult and the family got upset at me. It went even more extreme after I brought it up and it trickled down to my kids. I also used to call my sister the golden child when I was a kid after years of mistreatment. Interesting how I could understand the term as a kid and I don’t even know where I heard that or if I made it up in my head. I grew up in the eighties and nineties.
This was incredibly helpful. I would love for you to create a video that addresses a child that is abused (such as sexual abuse ) by a parent but not believed by the siblings.. and how not being believed by the family impacts the survivor. Thank you.
I just found your channel and am going to follow you. You make a lot of sense and my trauma with my siblings and parents was very apparent to me. But, like you said , connecting with my siblings about the past is nearly impossible. All of us siblings are now in our 50's, early 60's and the strife is still there.
Jeez. I think mine will be like that. I thought i didn't have to deal with it and i'm healed since i moved out, but i'm finally trying to heal, whatever that means. They still are all the same. Good lord
There is a section at the beginning of the book "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" by Pete Walker that gives 4 different examples of 4 different kids who grew up in the same home and it describes me and my 3 brothers to a T.
I'm so glad my brother and I'm have finally started talking about this together. Unfortunately my other sibling (narcissist) had been covertly keeping us separate in a divide and conquer game.
Thank you so much Patrick. Oldest child here, parentified and now my adults siblings (all in our fifties) hold me in the same contempt and disdain that my father does. I am the only one who sought counseling. We were taken away from our mother when I was 12. Dad was on wife number two and has been divorced 5 times. He was marrying wife #4 a year out of high school. It was chaos and sadly he has not changed.
I’m 7 and 16 years older than my brothers so I saw the worst of my dad’s abuse, who has now somewhat changed into a less evil asshole. One of my brothers gets angry when I talk about how I can’t forgive my dad (or when I mention how toxic and misogynistic he still is), and the youngest brother (who endured the least abuse) just doesn’t get involved. We were also raised in an extreme Pentecostal household, which contributed to our trauma, but they still think we were a normal family, despite all 3 of us having major issues with everything from drugs to porn addiction to depression.
Isn’t it a mind f$ck to see your parents treat other siblings and grandkids so much better than they treated you? It leaves us feeling utterly worthless.
An interesting breakdown of the issue. Here's another scenario. When sibs don't have the same parents, biologically yes, but firstborn's formative years are the golden years of the marriage, middle children through the worst years, final child parented by parent(s) who have been through treatment recovery. My eldest and youngest sisters were in denial about our father's alcoholism and seem least influenced by his drinking, cheating, financial instability, absenteeism. Their nostalgia for childhood makes me feel like I'm from a different planet. I think my brother gets it but we're definitely not all on the same page about family dysfunction.
I was the golden child until I started standing up for myself and talking back as a young teenager. I knew my parents would never physically hurt me and the emotional/verbal abuse eventually became too much to tolerate, so I'd talk to them the same childish, immature way they'd talk to me It's a very weird feeling, knowing that I was always told such positive and uplifting things as a young kid, only to be told I'm a mistake and destined to "be just like my mother" (not a good thing in my dads eyes) when I got older I was also (sort of) the oldest, and deeply parentified. They'd even call me a little mommy bc I was so involved in parenting my siblings, but nobody saw any issue with that. They assumed I was just a naturally caring and motherly person. I believed it too until one of my little brothers told someone that I "pretty much raised" him. That validation, knowing he saw it that way too, really helped put in perspective how parentified I really was. My dad's been dead for 3 years now and I can hardly bring myself to interact with my mom and siblings. I know the youngest ones see me as a parent so I don't want to abandon them, but I think my little sister always resented me for not parenting her (im only 2.5 years older, my brothers are 7 & 8 years younger than me). She only ever has hostility for me or our brothers unless she's getting her way.
I have felt unable to understand why my older siblings seem unwilling to perceive our childhood trauma surrounding our mothers death. Our father was loving and tried his best but was extremely depressed and often absent, trying to make ends meet or have time to himself to heal. I really appreciate your videos on childhood trauma and I am curious if you have any that specifically deal with the death of a caregiver?
My husband worships his sister, and she worships him. Its so unhealthy. They both refuse to admit or acknowledge it and won't even allow anyone to point out how much it's hurting the kids and our marriages. It's sick
After my sister and I cut off our toxic mother, I warned our younger golden child brother that he would be the next target. He had no concept until it started happening. He now acknowledges the abuse of his two older sisters because, unfortunately, he got a huge dose of the monster she was.
I was the "one who never looked back." I was the oldest of my siblings in a dysfunctional family system and the one who could make the most sense of what was happening. I finished high school, went to college thousands of miles away and came back home to visit maybe only 10-11 times in the past 21+ years. Of course, my mother used that to make me feel guilty about "abandoning" my brother and sister to an abusive household. Now my siblings have fully grown up and live all over the country, so I guess we all never looked back in our own way.
I’m the middle child but had to “mother” my two brothers. Even as adults them being 33 and 29 I provided the parental advice and listening and emotional support and also provided financial assistance from helping with bills, groceries. When my younger brother passed away I was responsible for handling all funeral arrangements. I am responsible for being the emotional support for Mom too. Literally being the glue that keep family together.
this is very sad.. it’s true on so many levels. i’ve actually decided not to have children (or plan for it) due to the dysfunction. I believe doing the work is important even when it feels hopeless.
Thank you for this video, and bless you! I let them go, continuously, and it is an ongoing process ! And I am sorry I didn't run and never turn my back 30 years ago, but I know why. I do my best to keep them behind my boundaries. The only thing I am afraid is not scapegoating them myself, not becoming them in trying to find the guilt and the blame and find somebody to put onto. Our entire society functioned and still does like this! I see you as a brilliant young man, and I wish you the best and a peaceful and blessed journey through life! ❤
I am the oldest of four brothers. When we were younger, I was expected to provide more care for my brothers than any child should have to. As an adult, it broke my heart to find out that my youngest brother looked up to me as more of a parent than either of our actual parents.
Great video! You hit the nail on the head. I can relate to most of it. I'm in my early 50's and this is still an issue in my life. My sister is/was the golden enabled protected sibling who makes sure she is exalted to this day and very childish and blames one child for literally everything bad thing, we have the lion's den, attacks and the runs from it. I would never wish this psychological abuse on any one. I want to be the one who never looks back but i also want to first know they won't change and to deal with the grief, then bye bye psycho's!!
This is eye opening , you have great insight and seem to be someoneI wish I had help with years ago . Truth about what is really happening behind the scenes !
Oh my goodness! You have perfectly described my family! You have brought me, the "Scapegoat" of the family, immense clarity with this information in your video. Holy cow, YES!! Thank you Patrick for this gift of clarification that has been so chaotically confusing to me my entire life. Thank you!
my toxic parents died and the funerals were so difficult to attend as the scapegoat. one of my sisters passive aggressively tried to shame me publically. its so toxic when people train you to read minds, and feel responsible for their emotions and expectations, also your assertion is shamed. you have no power in the relationship because the system needs to make you "damned if you do damned if you don't" this is the purpose of the scapegoat role a place to send their anger or frustration, rather than place it on the idealized people where it belongs.
I didn’t grow up with my brother and being the fixer I contacted him. Wasted years wanting a normal sibling interaction. He was a carbon copy of my abusive mother. So glad they are both gone now, the peace is wonderful.
Does anyone have a brother who is the golden child for simply being born male? I'm latina & our culture, along with many others, pretty much expects women to cater to men. My mom & I especially clash because I refuse to do that. There's so many issues but that is the core issue of why my brother & I will never have a "normal" sibling relationship.
Definitely the case in my family. My brother was the “golden child” when we were growing up and then when he developed Huntington’s Disease, my sister and I grew closer because we had to take care of him and also be a sounding board for our mother who could not deal with the grief of her successful son being very angry and unstable.
You are a blessing to the internet 🙏 I've been seeing your videos for about a year, and your insights have given me so much peace. I won't journal about it in my comment, but I thank you for understanding, and sharing what you've learned for those of us who are ready to hear 💜✨️
I took care of my sister as a child, now she rolls into town and pushes me aside to care for mom. She hung up on me in 2015 when I said to “not talk about things she knows little about” (after insulting a supportive friend - a boundary) and has never chosen to make any good-faith effort to re-connect. I’m good with the lack of drama, but pissed at the revelation of her “family value level”. It was just the 3 of us. Lotta golden child there, but not entirely. Thanks for the chats.
The only one of these issues that my siblings and I have avoided is mutual hate, but there's been very little of the attacking aspect as well. Two of us (purposely childless) periodically discuss the toxic and neglectful aspects of our still enmeshed family, but the other sibling (the one whose material conditions actually ended up far better, and who provided The Grandchild) cannot handle addressing family trauma without going into attack mode, so we are all polite and superficial at family gatherings. None of us has ever claimed to be the favorite child, but it's clear who Mom most approves of, and the other two siblings don't blame them for that, though the distancing and lack of ownership/responsibility/acknowledgement can be real irritating or make me sad on bad days. We were once close, and I will forever grieve that, but I've finally figured out their unspoken boundaries and will do my best to respect them. Above edited for clarity and format. Addition: Key factors include gender, heteronormative roles, marital status, religion (the one facet that Mom thinks all her children have failed in), and professional accomplishments, though we all have bachelors degrees or more from accredited universities.
I screamed at your intro; screamed out loud! YES! The perp is protected. And the others are forgotten. So horrible; while I asked for protection they ignored and let the harm continue.
I’ve grown up with childhood trauma and my experience is that we are unique in our feelings even though we agreed on our past history. Yes, I’m more sensitive. Others have overcome it and been successful but I’m successful but struggle with our past history. What I’ve learn’t is we are all traumatised but deal with it differently and we are all equal if we don’t demonise the one that struggles. ❤
I definitely relate to being the one who never looked back in the past, & I still carry some of that to this day. I'd love some more content on this role and core things to recognise about it 😊 Thankyou for the great video!
I'm the middle child of 3 and i am definitely number 4 to a T. I understand that my position of remaining neutral and not taking a side can come across as abandonment, but in reality it stems from a place where i am watching the whole house up in flames and no one realizes i am trying to make them see they are in trouble. I have an older sibling that is #2 on this list, literally ran away, and a younger sibling who downward spiraled in self hate and disappeared as well. Despite this, my love for each person in the family never diminished, i tried to understand from each person's perspective instead of telling them what to do. Meanwhile i remained paralyzed and powerless to stop the fire from consuming my family and the heartache of abandonment left me alone in this world. And yes, i have come to the realization that as a result of the heartache i have become a tank that can take a great amount of emotional abuse. Life pounded my heart to death and i was trying desperately to keep it beating. Deep down my priority wasn't picking a side, because in my eyes every member of the family was a victim to something tragic in their past and had still not found a way to heal. In my eyes, picking a side where everyone is broken and needs help gets in the way of my deepest hope which is praying to God we could one day be healed and whole as a family. I hope this helps someone else understand #4.
I feel bad for the golden child because their perspective on the world seems to be run by the idea that they’re good and worthy, but just barely, they’re made the positive example, but even in being “good”, there’s an implied threat, that if you don’t continue to live up to expectations, you are worthless (like your siblings) - it just seems extremely isolating and an unfortunately a perfect environment for the child to develop narcissistic personality disorder. Their parents teach them that their own success *has to be* at the expense of others, which is extremely isolating
I was definitely parentified by my sister due to our parent's abuse and negligence. I've done a pretty immense amount of work in therapy and I don't want that from her now, I just want a relationship of some sort. It sucks that we can't seem to maintain a relationship, but this helps me see that she probably associates me with that trauma. It would just be nice to talk to someone who actually, truly gets it.
It’s super… weird to see that I’m an outlier when I have 2 siblings who all have put in work to heal & acknowledge the abuse. My sister is the oldest, she took on the parental role at the beginning and made the (right) choice to go to college far from us and forge her own life - but she’s also the most willing to maintain a relationship with our mom. My brother’s the middle child, he was the one to buy me great gifts, cook dinner for me, drive me around etc. and before that, when we were both little, we hated each other and grew closer with time. Now he’s my best friend and we lean on each other. I feel so much guilt as the youngest for my siblings needing to step in and be parents, but I’ve voiced this many times and neither hold any resentment towards me, just our mother. Now we all are low contact - some of us further along that stage than others - and all of us are in therapy. I’m really grateful we’ve all been able to start a healing process because I don’t know what I’d do without them. We’re the only people in the world who truly understand and know what we’ve been through - and to me that’s sacred.
There's def more issues than just these eight. Would love to hear from you!
What about a family where all siblings and parents compartmentalize? Any tips? They don't discuss anything controversial, all avoid conflict to the point of no closeness or true caring no matter how much one tries.
Also, I'm curious as to how much experience anyone has had with abusive family systems in which two or more siblings seemingly miraculously develop a close, healthy, intimate relationship in the midst of all of that toxicity.
One example would be Gilbert and his oldest sister Amy, and also Gilbert and his younger brother Arnie, in the novel What's Eating Gilbert Grape. The novel is what focuses on the relationship between Gilbert and Amy--the movie skims over that. Also, Gilbert and Arnie's relationship is definitely not perfect because it's quite tainted by ableism (Arnie is intellectually disabled and chronically ill).
An even better example would be Celie and her younger sister Nettie in the novel The Color Purple. The girls's stepfather--whom they believe is their biological father until they learn differently as adults--got Celie pregnant twice when she was in her teens. There is a scene where Celie catches him looking at Nettie and so she seduces her stepfather to protect Nettie. That scene was used to establish just how close the sisters were.
@@bonnie_wood6782 I think every toxic family that isn’t called out compartmentalizes and hides away their abusive, toxic sh@t and gets away with it when no one is there (beyond the one person) to speak up.
@@messinalyle4030 What’s Eating Gilbert Grape is one of my favorite movies because of how much I could see my family in it. However, I don’t think it’s a close sibling relationship, it is parentification in the worst way. Gilber has no choice, it’s his family role to keep shit together.
In The Color Purple, also a favorite, I felt like either girl could have turned on her sister over a guy at any point of tension because of their desperation to be loved and accepted, but that could totally be my sibling dynamics talking.
I don't see mine at all. Oh well.
i feel like sibling abuse is almost always left out of the conversation so its really nice to see a video about this kind of stuff
Gosh yes! My biggest bully was one of my sisters. I didn’t come to that epiphany until seeing these videos. It’s changed my approach to her.
Absolutely!!! My oldest sister and brother were mine..my much older brother even being physically abusive without consequence. How often I wonder ppl ignore sibling abuse..
Yup! I agree with what Patrick said about the dynamic between siblings being more devastating than the relationship with the parents because you feel like you're supposed to be on the same team. And your sibling is usually your first friend in life. Your first peer. And you're part of the same generation.
Yes! My brother was the WORST! And my mother never believed me. He was always the favorite. Now as an adult he's always in trouble for domestic violence
@@carris2scents57 It's terrible! My mom still caters to my brother and he's mentally abusing her. Excuses. Always excuses. He's put his hands on my throat so many times as a teenager and she yelled at him and grabbed him but there was NEVER repercussion. Didn't get kicked out, no cops, nothing. "Let it go, he's your brother and loves you." 😵 NOT LOVE!!! He's not allowed in my life anymore.
the saddest thing about having siblings affected by this is seeing them continue the same abusive pattern that our parents had on their own children.
Yes. My nephew was born perfectly unscathed. Now he’s affected. They put him a through this wringer. He’s gone. 😢
You are unfortunately so right. It is a vicious circle. And if you try to give them advice and say to them, seek for help and professional advice, they hate you more and more and do not believe that you just want to help the family to get a better life.
They can not imagine that they really are loved from the sibling, that they attack. It is always on a competition level and no together. If you are successful they are in rage and try everything to destroy your good life and your success.
It is endless suffering and has the potential to kill very lovely adorable persons, that try everything to do the best for others. When an empath meets an narcisst, the empath is the looser. And nobody prepares children for this stuff. Nobody warns you about this! You understand everything, when it is to late and your life ist completely down and broken. Some siblings live in the end alone, poor and really sick and isolated. It is really very important, to look at this point and help the siblings that get "friendly fire" and toxic shot day by day and nobody believes them. Nobody understands, that this are potentionally can kill you, because you find a exit, expect commiting sucide.
Take care for yourself and for others, that do not know about this issues and stand alone and do not know, how they can become happy. In the end it is sometimes the only solution, to go and let them do, what ever they want. You tried everything, everything failed and there is nothing more you can do, just leaving the scene. And this is heartbreaking to loose the family members, one by one and you can not stop this program.
Agree. I worry about the kids, whose parents think they're not affecting them with their own toxic behavior. Not so. 😢
@@cc1k435They actually do. My mother was a teacher, but she would compare me to my older sister, even though we both respected her... As adults sadly we didn't leave the house entirely, but at least we didn't let her harsh words get entirely the best of us.
Absolutely. 2 out if 5 of us kids moved very far away. 2 have continued the cycle feeling entitled and very arrogant in their belief that committing disgusting abuse on their targeted sibling/s is not only acceptable but it is ‘normal’. And certainly justified to do it to the siblings own kids, even before that sibling calls out the toxic dysfunction of the narcissists in the family. Yeah, when my CN sister, who had been wearing a mask as soon as she got engaged at 22, and at 55 years old went straight for my own family members as soon as our mother died, I realized she is truly sick in the head. She was violent and abusive and unsafe to be around unless fully supervised until she was 22, and at 55 she is the same. My husband heard her ‘true ugly’ in our last phone call 2 years ago. My bff saw her ‘true ugly’ growing up and did not like her. Always encouraged me to not go near her. My bff is very smart.👍🏼. It’s unfortunate my older brothers are still being deceived by this pos. At least my kids know she is a pos and will have nothing to do with her as she is once again unhinged and unsafe to be around.
Please keep these conversations about family dynamics and Trauma going, we really appreciate them and need them badly
Couldn't agree more!
I triplicate this. Many of us single folks need more advice on siblings,and less on "ex lovers" i tire of from so many other youtubers !
True
Yes 🙌🏻
I have 3 siblings and you nailed ALL of it … 😢
I LOVE that you do not take sponsors. Thank you for not choosing to greedily resell our attention!
Thank you. ❤ I am the one person in my family who is the truth seeker, who has done the work to recover. I am also the scapegoated child. I'd rather be healthy and alone than stay in the unhealthy family system. 🙏
Sending you love. I hope you have a wonderful future and heal from the trauma. You deserve that ❤
Agreed, and Ditto
@@CarmenSandiego649 Thank you!!! ❤
same... its lonely tho for me, as I vowed never to marry, never be like my mom, never have kids I might abuse like parents did us. Now I'm old & it's lonely! (Still don't want them in my life tho!) 😌
same! we are soul sisters!
OMG when he said 'the main perpetrator may be a sibling who exhibits sociopathic or highly manipulative behavior' I had to pause the video. I was blown away. Maybe I've been doing therapy wrong because I've never heard this addressed or expressed so clearly. The focus tends to be on abuse or neglect from parents, which is understandable. However, in my family all the roles shifted around my brother's personality. This included my mom, who seemed more like she was in the trenches with the rest of us rather than the parent. When Patrick said that, I felt like he opened the door of my childhood home and peeked inside, naming the thing that we never talk about.
Agree. My middle brother was the abusive sibling and the one who garnered all the attention with his delinquent behavior. We were all still very close but knew our roles. He never would talk about it. The baby bro and I do. That’s the healthiest.
My brother is the main perpetrator and he’s the golden child but now I see him getting his karma with his wife
Sibling issues are definitely not talked about enough. Personally our problem is that we don't communicate that much, we're basically strangers or something and it hurts because it's hard expressing emotions in our household because of it
I agree. They don't mentally understand what we been through
I was mentally, emotionally and on some occasions physically abused by my older sister who is 10 years older, especially during early childhood and my teen years, and well into adulthood. Though I may understand the reasons why it occurred, I have not forgiven her. Especially since she is older and always acts like she knows everything. The saddest thing is that my family is such toxic trash with zero emotional intelligence but I’m the youngest and the one with the most emotional intelligence (not that much but way more than them). I was and still am CONSTANTLY silenced when needing to make my point across, yet they’re always looking for my advice when it benefits them. I hate my family. This is the first time I’ve ever expressed it. It took a long time for me to realize the effects of all I’ve been through it’s sad but feels good to get it out.
My brother and I recently started sharing our trauma and it was startling to me how familiar we both felt but for different reasons.
I had this experience this past weekend with my brother the day after MY WEDDING!! We both felt the same way but had different reasoning for it.. we never had that type of admission with each other before. I hope we can work out our differences.
I never wanted to see this in my siblings and it is one of the worst feelings in the world when you realize the hurt they’ve caused and how disappointing to know that nobody loved you in the entire family system and nobody knew how, we just kept each other company in fear, terror, pain and suffering.
Well said
And how ALONE I feel even in a room full of
people
❤ me too
Oh, yes. Nobody loved anyone. We pretended when we were in society. I was so confused, but I knew that we weren't the same when we were at home. And I was terrified most of the time.
Thanks for saying this...i am finally realizing this sad reality as one of the outcomes of my sisters recent death...and i have been wondering for years why i feel work , social circles, neighbors..".out to get me" ...used to feel mistrust of my world and it has escalated
I am the youngest, and while I was the "good girl" and "golden child", I also identify as the scapegoat when I started to call out the toxicity in the family, and therefore become the "problem".
Me too!
I was the opposite... Despite being the youngest, I was the scapegoat and got told how lazy, selfish or irresponsible I was. My older sister was viewed as the golden child in the family. Had the good qualities I never had.
Same here!!!! Younger me was the “golden child” but now that I’m older I’m the “bossy , know it all , controlling, cold hearted, self centered bitch”
None of which is accurate even when I was young. I literally supported each brother and attempted to be a positive female tole model since our mother wasn’t interested in doing so.
I can relate 💯! My little brother has been off of the chain when my dad died. Narcissistic mom lets him do anything. He's a recovering heroin addict and my mom took him and my sister to Las Vegas when my little brother turned 30. I didn't do anything for my 40th. My little brother did tell me though that I'm a waste of money. He traumatize my child so much on Christmas that he pooped his pants. He told my son "running from me is not an option" so I stood between he and my son so that my son would know that I will be there to protect him and I won't let him ever put his hands on him or talk that way. I don't want my child to be traumatized like I was with nobody sticking up for me.
Me too!
As a child that grew up in foster care, separated from my sibling who is now full of rage, I am so grateful for you and the time you take with us subscribers. Thank you.
I’m the only one who’s worked on things and I finally “divorced” them. I don’t want it anymore and it’s ok to say, “No, I don’t like this and I don’t want this in my life.” Choose self love, healing and growth. 😊❤
Thank you for this video because sibling trauma is not talked about enough
Waiting for the scapegoat video. I've been the scapegoat of my sick family. Thank you for your invaluable content!
Scapegoating doesn't work. You are never responsible for the actions of those who actually caused the harm.
You can't put your sins off onto a goat and send it to die in the desert. You still have the fact that you're the perpetrator if you've done such heinous things (not you, personally...just speaking in general).
Sometimes the sibling who never looked back , probably was the scapegoat....
Watch his 6 archetypes of toxic parenting its 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Man, where do I start?
My oldest & only sister was parentified & "escaped" early. I don't remember much of her in our childhood & she now makes up stories about what it was like.
She is now the keeper of the castle as she is the cosigner for our father's finances & he calls her for anything he may need.
Even though we all live in the same town, she scapegoats me, or did, for her ongoing issues. Her husband is a grumpy over-drinker, she has dated & now is married to drug addicted or alcoholic men only. But if it looks good from the outside: a Neurosurgeon & now married to an attorney, then it must be good!
Her only child, my niece has had two DUI convictions. Her mother enables her as well by bailing her out & never setting limits. I am now estranged from my niece as well due to my sister's bad mouthing of me.
My sister & I are now estranged.
My oldest brother was the perpetrator of cruelty. Of course he was also scapegoated by our father & he in turn scapegoated me. He is an angry, abusive lost man now.
The golden child died in an auto accident when I was 17, he was 19 & home visiting for the holidays when it happened.
My youngest brother was the lost child & was often infantalized. Financially suported by our parents & allowed to live at home long after our father had kicked me out.
Our mother died 3.5 years ago after a ten year addiction to opiates. Of course they were prescribed by her rheumatologist, so it was okay.
I was the only sib to confront her about her drug use. She had been a counselor in a methadone maintenance clinic for 20 years prior to her retirement & addiction.
Currently I am the sole sib in recovery from ALL of this.
I take codeine prescribed by my Rheumatologist. Are you saying your mother didn't have pain? That sounds pretty cold.
@@kathymc234 you need to reread what I wrote. BIG difference between being RX'd opioids for pain & being an opioid addict taking way too large of a dose for your size & weight. No where in my comment do I address her pain or lack thereof.
I really identify with being the sibling that never looked back. I feel like I should be there for my little sister who is still in the toxic system being abused, but just talking to her reminds me of all the trauma and everything I used to hate about myself when I lived with them. I used to be someone else because of the trauma. It hurts to remember it all.
I saw this comment and relate 110%. Im the older sister who broke away 3 years ago from my family. It caused them pain and they lashed out on my younger sister. I want to be there for her but I feel like I cant because it is painful for both of us.
Moved 1000 miles away. Felt guilty for so long about being choosy about visiting on my own terms, but I’m getting the hang of it after 30 years.
@@crystaledwards9878 me too, after 25 years. You re not alone in what you ve been through. Always remember that. I wish you the best.🤗
I feel like that little sister, I am a little sister actually. Maybe that's why my brothers don't talk to me about almost anything substantial. They were not raised to know how to talk introspectively, I had to teach myself and be my own emotional support system, so I can talk to myself and be here with myself through all this. It really hurts to have had to accept that to many siblings, they are just people who we had to compete with for attention and love growing in the same environment. I obviously understand why you don't want to retrigger yourself or compromise your safety, you deserve to be safe. And in ideal world that we deserve, there should have been other systems in place to help your sister, like accessible therapy or shelters or healthcare. I am that little sister still trapped in a toxic abusive system, and I don't know how or when I will get out but I hope it's sooner rather than later. I hope we all get the help we desperately need and deserve.
@@UnicornUniverse333 you sound like an extraordinary individual to have experienced what u have and to achieve the self awareness you have gained. I actually don't believe many on here express even a tiny percentage of the pain and trauma they have and still continue to deal with due to the shame affiliated to it. There is power in being able to remove yourself from a situation like this. But the real power comes from what u do next. Most don't actually do very well. But due to the guilt/shame complex never admit it. I'm admitting it. My life's a mess at 43. I have wonderful attributes, but terrible flaws Resulting from what's happened. It's easy to go through life remaining a victim, believing everyone's out to get you. But strength comes from acknowledging that, and understanding there are good people in the world. The most important thing is the way the world appears...is pointless...unless we deal with looking at ourselves, accepting and loving ourselves regardless. Because we project this.We are worth it. God made us extraordinary. It's just a case of believing it, especially after so much trauma. You are worth it.
This video really hits home in so many ways. As someone who cut off contact from my family from age 20 - 32, then tried to rebuild the relationship with them from age 32 - 51… but with a healed heart, healed inner child and hyper awareness of what a chaotic, toxic and dysfunctional dynamic looks and feels like - every encounter was exhausting and poisonous. I felt like I betrayed myself over and over again because our relationship was so inauthentic. I wanted something real and transparent. My family wanted drama and compliance.
My sister morphed into a maniacal tyrant who I would not trust because her contrary to her words, her actions displayed her jealousy and resentment towards me.
There is freedom and great healing that result from choosing to live a life without chaos and drama.
Oh wow. Painful. So then in the end you realized space was the healthiest place?
@@rdg6543 Yes. It was more painful to want an authentic relationship with someone who I loved but who sent clear messages that she resented me and viewed me as her adversary. I have accepted it and released her with love. Are you experiencing something similar?
@@Keepingitreallyreal my initial response to your response was written to wrong person. Sorry if you started reading it and it didn't fit. I deleted it. It was another thread. No, currently I am not experiencing this myself. Unfortunately, this must be a common thing bc I am observing it with a close friend, and the injustice of it feels unbearable at times. What we deserve is often not what we get. Learning about space boundaries is new to me and am dealing with a hurtful mil that I've had to incorporate some space boundaries with. But my particular situation is different than yours. I am really sorry you've been hurt like this.
yikes, well at least you know you tried, and unfortunately it sounds like they may have inherited narcissism from your parents. You can be at peace now.
"Runs from the reality of it" isn't limited to just siblings. I see a lot of (former) friends do this too (repress emotions). Everything HAS to be okay. It's half safe talking to them. And they're not fully comfortable with you setting boundaries with other people that you mentioned to them.
Feels like fake support.
Shout out to all of us who came here trying to break the cycle!! Love this for all of you 💖
Nice And you have quite the user name!
@@CatFish107😂😂😂
❤
Please do a video on how intimacy (sexual AND physical touch amongst non sexual partners) is affected for those who have CPTSD, and how we can work past it?
Yes that would be amazing Intimacy has such a huge impact on trauma survivors 🙏🏼
Wow i definitely need this
There is a kind of massage that targets these topics, it called traumatic touch massage. I did some training as one, they can be hard to find but very worthwhile.
@@mitcharendt2253 if you have any links that would be great!
That would be great. I don't like being touched (hugged) especially by my parent. I automatically pull away. Very few people can hug me.
I feel like the most important reason for me to find compassion by understanding that my siblings also went through that trauma, and also with others in my life, was that by understanding that the behavior that they may be directing at me are actually their own survival responses to their trauma. In no way does that excuse their behavior or mean that I'm supposed to sit there and take it, but being able to see it almost from an observer viewpoint instead of being caught up in the midst of someone's projected insecurity due to trauma has allowed me to accept that their behavior, while directed at me, is not actually ABOUT me, so it's easier for me to forgive them instead of carrying resentment around forever. I no longer take their behavior/accusations as personal and instead can see where they're coming from while also continuing to set boundaries to protect myself from the abuse, and I think both of those things have been major, major aspects of my healing. Reminding myself it's not about me has really kept me from falling back into a shame mindset!
THIS! My sister is so mad at my brothers. Where as I understand we all had our own ways of dealing with the generational trauma in our family and so I understood the idiosyncrasies of their personalities and try to move forward. My sister is SO pissed that I am choosing to forgive and forget. She sees me as a traitor for it and now doesn't talk to anyone. It's like she NEEDS to be perpetually mad with her, and I just can't. I have to put it to rest, and she is so mad that I am doing that.
The part about the sibling that “never looked back” seeing you as the symbol of all of the trauma makes so much sense to me. All these years later, I’m still not even considered for an invite to when the rest of my family gets together. (We are all in perfect standing with each other, grown and past it all. No strife at all.) I’d bet any amount of money that I’m the reminder of the trauma for the whole family. They all (seemed) to never look back and I struggled for many years. This really helps to understand bc the lack of any invitation for my entire adult life has always been a painful mystery. Maybe I can just mourn the loss and begin to heal on this part of it.
Wow. My mother recently passed away, and six of us siblings are going through major struggles as we settle the estate. There was much to think about in your video! I hope we can go forward without becoming estranged. We are children of a narcissist.
I wish you luck, my family was also terrorized by a narcissist mother and a enraged absent father. We fit this mold perfectly. The final weeks of her life were absolute chaos. The golden child took control, even though she wasn’t power of attorney or executrix. ( Mother knew the monster she created, but fell for the siren song.) What she (the golden child) did was unforgivable, and unforgettable.
My sister and I come from a large family and we're working together on the trauma we experienced as kids. The other siblings have no clue and think we're just "disloyal" or "resentful for the wrong reasons" so we keep these conversations and the work we're doing to ourselves ♥️ Thank you for the work you do Patrick, we absolutely love your calm and super informative videos!!!
My older sister was the scapegoat. I believed my parents' lies about it being her fault. Now that I've moved out and I've gone no-contact with our dad, she is saying that her relationship with our parents has really improved. She demonstrated this improvement by participating in our dad's abuse of my girlfriend. She sees herself as a victim and a survivor, but she doesn't want to admit that any abuse happened in the family. When something happens that inconveniences her, she assumes that it was done with malicious intent and lashes out at the source. Some months ago, I was having pain and asked her if we could meet up somewhere a little closer to me than usual so I wouldn't have to drive as far. She switched moods instantly and started yelling that I was trying to manipulate her and that I didn't understand all that she sacrificed so she could meet with me for brunch. I am so tired of walking on eggshells every time we talk. I can't build a healthy relationship with someone who unapologetically hurts me when I ask for help.
Oh my dear, its time to care and protect yourself. Your sister is of no help. Seek support elsewhere. I wish you strength and healing.
my sister also takes it personally when I have any kind of need.
The only time she would cave is if someone else backs me up, but she also tries to walk it back as soon as it's no longer convenient. So, i think she's just trying to look good for others.
And she, really seems to think for some moronic reason, to think that she has NO CLUE why I wouldn't want to be around her (I'm NC). Wow, why would a functioning human being want to constantly have their needs and boundaries questioned and denied.
Huh, w e i r d
This is such a fantastic video. Thank you, Patrick, for your work.
My husband’s family is dysfunctional and it’s been difficult marrying into this dynamic. My sister in law is the diplomat/agent/enabler/hero. Whenever I set boundaries against my mother in law, SIL says “she’s not going to change” , and of course she won’t change if people keep enabling her! SIL actually called me a bully for confronting MIL about her manipulation and selfishness. My husband for years would emotionally (and sometimes physically) leave to avoid dealing with MIL. So this made me the “truth teller/scapegoat.” SIL is also the Smart And Competent One, so this means the rest of us must be helpless idiots, despite us having successful careers, etc. If I do something well, it is either ignored, discouraged, disparaged. Or I’m showing off .
My response to being treated this way is to go very low contact. When I have to be around my husband’s family, I will often gray rock but sometimes point out BS and hypocrisy. I have given up on having a normal relationship characterized by mutual care and respect.
I have a similar relationship with my MIL but we can't even be around each other anymore. She totally scapegoats me. My husband is stuck in the middle😢.
Somewhere I read the phrase “the ghost and the hungry child” in reference to a family trauma dynamic. The adult hungry child can’t stop seeking love and connection from the adult ghost, who always stands aside and can never trust or be vulnerable. I’ve been there.
Neither one of my siblings have ever been honest about our childhood but they didn’t get the worst of it, they were mostly bystanders to the constant abuse that I suffered. Im invalidated constantly by the enabling parent and one of the siblings who “just ran away from it and pretends it never happened.
Thank you for bringing these complicated issues to light. I have learned more about my own childhood trauma from you and The Crappy Childhood Fairy in the last few months than in all the counseling I've had in the last three decades. This video really hit home, especially when you spoke of the loneliness we can feel when these systems alienate us from our siblings. I almost resent people with close sibling bonds at times. You have a way of making these very complex issues more accessible to understanding. I am grateful to you.
You expressed my reaction so well. Thank you. (I also watch CCF) This particular video was the one that broke through my inability to get past the horrific guilt and self-hate that I have lived with for so long. It made me understand intellectually. Now I have to emotionally/psychologically deeply accept what happened in order to forgive myself.
@@nancybartley4425 we are on the same journey and with a lot of others, too. These wonderful people, Patrick and Anna, have given us the gift of a bridge to self forgiveness. I wish you well on the path.
Thank you for your time and I hope you find peace.@@pammitchell3098
Holy moly. This was incredibly helpful to me.
The part where you talked about a parental death felt personal lmao. When we were packing up my father's stuff, my sister and I had a huge blowout. I truly feel that somewhere inside me, I finally was able to release all of those feelings once my father died. My father already survived cancer so a lot of the time I felt I had to show him and display to him my siblings and I had a good relationship because he could pass anytime and he wanted his kids to get along. When he died, I finally felt free of that facade
I needed to hear this. I have 2 siblings and we were all abused by our parents. I asked my sister what she wanted the other day, and she said she wanted us to reconcile and become a happy family. This is after my many attempts at explaining to her how my parents were mistreating me, and how it made me depressed and suicidal. And she was still like "You should be more understanding, our parents just didn't know any better" And on some days she's like "I want to cut them (our parents) off". I feel misunderstood and betrayed to some level every time she sides with our parents. Because why is she protecting them when I'm out here battling mental illnesses because of what they did to me (or us) and are still doing?
In our family of 7, we have what I’ve always referred to as the “no competition clause”. No child can “be” or even explore what another sibling has been labeled as in the family. Oldest sister is the scientist, next is the educator, the musician, the slacker (me) the genius, the son ( only boy and receiver of all family wealth: the farm, the good ole farm), the baby. By the time I came along, all the good roles were already filled. The one thing I was good at was a direct competition with the mother. She was known as a great artist, but even though I showed early bent towards the visual arts, I was never given any encouragement, “you’d better just get a job at the market, you aren’t that smart.” And, “I will not sign the financial aid forms if you are enrolling in any art classes” In college, even though I was very interested in science, I felt I couldn’t study it because the role was taken. Couldn’t be a teacher, not only not smart enough but also Not suited for it, supposedly. In middle and HS, I could play the flute, but was always 5 th chair…which was really sitting behind the drums, waiting for my turn to use the one flute we rented for two kids. Very small school so no second band class to be in. I see families who are close and feel grief that we were never allowed to be anything but competition for each other. I’m the one who is digging out of our abuse story and the only one who chose not to use corporal punishment on my kids. (And they are wonderful human beings, but I wish they were closer to each other). I once texted the sister I’m closest to asking if she also noticed how feelings are not something we deal with as a family…and she skipped over responding. Just blithely went on to the next subject.
And I’m finally, in my 40s & 50s, using my gift working as a technical illustrator, and I’m good at it. I just wish I had been allowed to get into it when I was young. So much was lost in experience and learning. And I wish my mom didn’t pick apart my work on the rare occasion that I get brave enough to share it with her.
Thank you for this!! For years I've not been able to figure out why i quit or gave up on activities. Years ago, i finally got up enough courage to join a ballroom dancing class. One night after class, we all went to a club to practice. While standing at the bar with friends, a strange man grabbed my hair & started sniffing as he rubbed it against his face.(It was past my waist at that time) I was horrified. The rest of the night i was shaking & traumatized. Later, when i got home i called to tell her what had happened & how upset i was... She responded with "you deserved it, you were basically prostituting yourself and got what you deserved.." 😳
I didn't know that my BPD mother had been competing with me for most of my life until recently. And after I started to notice what she was doing, I realized that she had been placing obstacles in my way for as long as I could remember. She was green with envy and still is, even though she didn't really do anything to mitigate her own damages.
I'm telling you this because I used to think the same thing -- it's a shame that I lost all that time -- but IMO, if you had been in art school then, she would have just sabotaged you. She would have gotten sick with a life threatening illness or some other obstacle that would have been difficult for you to overcome at that age.
I personally believe we are always in the right place at the right time. You can pursue that freely now. Hope that helps!
@@aking3624 She was sabotaging you. I have stopped telling my toxic mother anything because she does stuff like this. The less they know, the harder it is for them to take shots at you. It's been my observation that being emotionally neutral around her (I'm staying with her because of the pandemic and her financial sabotage -- long story) keeps her attacks away and the drama at bay. I am also just at the point now where I've just had enough and I tell her to go away and leave me alone, because I'm not interested in playing along with her lies anymore.
Sad. Your mom could have been proud of you.
I was 15 when I cut my hair and asked my mom and dad how it looked. Neither one looked at me or spoke to me. I was invisible. My father later admitted that he wasn't allowed to answer me because my mom was jealous and thought he favored me. Which worked out because she hated me and favored my bother and the golden child baby sister.
OMG Patrick you are the therapists for me. After years trying to figure my siblings and why I am the only one who has any interest in healing from the terrific childhood trauma. I had actually figured out how each one was affected and keep it to myself because they can't even admit our " perfect family on the outside" is actually textbook example of a dysfunctional family. I prefer to have no relationship with two of my brothers completely and the other brother it can never be close (he is the one who got away and came back to the area with his intended bride. He is also the diplomat, workaholic and executor of my parents estate) I was labelled greedy and I am the only one who has not seen the wil, I trust I got my share even though all their belongings were spoken for or taken before I got there ( excluding items listed in the will ) The details of the disposition would astonish you. Then shortly after was family Christmas which convinced me it was time to greive and move on.
Definitely true that crisis brings out the worst...mom's funeral stirred the pot of trauma.
My family dysfunction centered on my brother, who was enabled- but I think that’s because my parents were afraid of his feelings, more than because he was the favorite.
My other siblings aren’t really willing to see the reality of it, which has left me feeling pretty alone. Thank you for making these kinds of resources.
Patrick's description of a "healthy family system" is totally ALIEN to me. Totally outside of my experience. What he says about "divide & conquer dynamic being inflicted by parent(s) against siblings" with the result the sibling connection "being ruined" is So true for me and the younger brother I grew up with. We were never really able to heal it before he died 2 1/2 years ago. He rarely was able to talk about what happened to us---unless he was super drunk. He carried on the family tradition of alcoholism--that eventually killed him. I've always felt guilty that I couldn't "save" him.
I really appreciated how you mentioned that as siblings we were "witnesses." I cant put into my own words what I feel, but this lecture really resonated in my soul. Thank you.
Thank you for this, for being here with your personal AND professional experience to help me heal this past year.
Edit to note my progress: I wish my family well from afar, but I now understand that I should be my own ally instead of my own burden. As for my younger siblings, I forgive them and myself because it’s true that not everyone you start with can come with you to the finish line. I hope they get to know what it feels like some day.
Xo. So eloquently and succinctly stated.
The sibling who never looked back!! That's totally my situation with my younger brother :( our mother gaslighted both of us against eachother & we have not been able to connect.
Fascinating. I never knew how to decode my family's dynamics. I can definitely see myself as the 'runner' and 'the diplomat' - but only after having had enough of my parents' dysfunction.
After years of being a parent to my parents (ages 12 to 25) I left, and moved across the country, establishing boundaries to stop wasting myself as the first-responder to each new crisis they faced.
I felt (and still feel) guilty that doing so meant my younger brother (and his wife and family) became the new point of contact / crisis managers, while I could stay away and just throw money at my parents' problems, from a distance, for the last 20 years.
Part of my healing has been to write a letter to my brother to thank him and his family for what they did, and what they sacrificed, during that time.
I think that I'm on draft 300 at this point.
Time stamps
7:03 : sibling that attacks
9:22 : The sibling that never looked back
11:07 : Enabled/protected sibling
13:09 runs from the reality of it
15:29 they need parenting from you
17:24 The lion's den
19:29 Diplomatic
21:02 Oblivious golden child
Is there a version of this for only children?
I'm eldest of three. One never looks back, and the other needs me to parent. As a child, I was raised to keep the family together after their deaths. My parents were troubled and abusive on so many levels. I turned 70 last year, I finally gave up on trying to heal our relationships. I stopped playing mother to my siblings. I've done many things for them (housed them, lent them money, introduced them to activities/interests, house and pet sat while one travelled etc), now, I've pleasantly resolved to stay in contact and catch-up (visit them) once a year. Every social media contct is initiated by me between the yearly visit. I'm too old to play mother anymore. Thanks for this. It explains a lot.
I’m crying right now as you explain all of these situations. So relevant to my siblings and their reactions to my parents dying…
Thank you for this great insight. Although we live in an imperfect and broken world, there is still much enchantment. I see these types (and combinations of the types) of sibling issues in my own family. After nearly 20 years of therapy, reading self-help books at a young age and now listening to mental health professionals such as yourself and others, I practice a delicate detachment and I have abandoned the fantasy of wanting my siblings and parents to get in touch with their feelings. By taking that approach, I notice that I experience more contentment and less exhaustion when I'm in their presence.
This is why I stay. There is wisdom here in spades. Between this and therapy, I'm dismantling all the old damage and turning it to healing.
All of my sisters are on a healing journey! I think we are becoming more aware of how to heal and the fact that we need to heal. ❤️
This overwhelms me to the point of physical nausea. So much sibling trauma that I have to take one small bite at a time. Ugh! Every single thing I have experienced!
I can see my parents, my sister and I, and my children in these descriptions. I tried so damn hard to break the cycle but I couldn't do it in time. We all pay for it.
It seems that kids caught up with their parents abuse, pitted against one another, often suffer crippling moral injuries. Have you found this to be the case?
Yes. This. I do not care about the loss of my parents-they are toxic lost causes. But I deeply grieve the loss of my siblings, who chose to side with my parents and cut me off for not falling in line and keeping to my role as the responsible family caretaker and scapegoat.
i feel immense guilt that didn’t hit for years for the mockery i inflicted on my brother regarding our family “value” of being naturally smart and doing perfectly in school being the sole most important thing in life - i called him stupid our entire childhood. we swapped roles as scapegoat and golden child for years (he was my dads golden child until i left for college). i feel like a moral wasteland. i call and apologize to him when drunk sometimes. he doesn’t want to hear about it, he pretends it all never happened and cannot process emotions at all
@@ghostworld11123 Same here. I allowed him to bully and insult me our entire adult life, because I was so mean to him when we were kids. When I told my mother why I never retaliated, and just let him do it, she said, “Well you can just stop that right now!” It wasn’t that easy. I had to go no-contact with him, but we are old, and he had some health issues, and he’s now more agreeable. I have carried that guilt nearly to the finish line, but I’m too old to carry it now, and I’ve done too much penance that I didn’t need to do.
Wow, amazing. I’ve never heard anyone break this dynamic down like this and it perfectly describes the relationship between myself and my two sisters. We are older now and the most distant we’ve ever been. Interestingly enough the golden child and over achiever want no part in looking after their aging parents but feel it is my life’s duty. I don’ think our relationship will ever be the same. I am thankful for your videos and enjoy the content you create. Thank you.
this made me realize im number 4 through and through. shut down when my siblings try to talk about things, and terrified of conflict. im going to therapy and learned to manage conflict in the workplace and with my friends, but my family is still something so hard to confront for me
i'm glad my brother and i worked through our issues with each other... i had severe adhd as a kid and so i always was focused on as the "problem" child. to my brother, i was always having excuses be made by our parents when i would do something wrong and was the center of attention. to me, my brother was given more leniency and got to live free from under a microscope. i got too much attention and he didnt get enough. we both wanted what the other had because we were equally miserable...
My siblings have been so invalidating when it comes to the physical and mental abuse I suffered at the hands of my mother. I am the scapegoat and oldest sibling. My mother tried to give me up for adoption and resented that child services persuaded her to take me home. In a way, I wish I was adopted. But I have been on my healing journey for the last 15 years. No contact 5 years and I have not looked back. Feeling better year by year. Feel reborn. These videos by Patrick really help to validate thst I am on the right track.
Thank you for putting all into words! As a middle child within a family of 5, all these described my dynamic with my siblings.
For some of us the motivation of , “ the morally right thing to do” cannot be overestimated . Me and my siblings were raised as Christians with Christian values. I feel these values are being exploited by the spiritual leader/parent to serve the parent.
I had Christian values shoved on me to silence me. “turn the other cheek” was said to me by Dad while at the same time Dad was lashing at me every day. “forgive” was just to shut me up. Everything he could do to manipulate me-he did. He tried to murder me multiple times…but “thou shall not kill” was also put on me. I guess he hoped I would not be vengeful.
Omg, your Debbie Downer "wah wah" had me laughing. I just said that yesterday, lol. In my family, I was the scapegoat and my brother was the golden child. My trauma manifested into substance use disorder, and I feel like my brother died inside witnessing my demise. He is now a Trump supporter, and it's devastating to me. Fortunately I've been able to recover after learning about narcissistic abuse and toxic family systems from videos like these. I worry my brother will never be able to face his own trauma. He's so detached, and it's just all very sad. Thank you for offering much needed support through your content.
I'm black and a trump supporter and the scapegoat of the family. I had my own father tell me Trump should be killed as well as his supporters. He wouldn't take it back. This is after I sent him my credit card so he could buy gas and put food on the table, all while I was recovering from a bone marrow transplant (Leukemia). My cousin's and uncles during our zoom thanksgiving call were praying and thanking Biden saying and I quote "now we are free". They are all college educated, white collar professionals. I've had my grandparents and cousins tell me I hated being black because I chose to judge people based on actions, not skin color. I've been further ostracized from my family because I won't see myself as a victim because of the color of my skin. I just want to be free and left alone, but I can't do that without being shamed by everyone.
Trump is magnificent. Good luck.
Oh no, imagine not drinking the judeomarxist koolaid, how horrible
This topic was a heartbreaker for me. As the eldest and only girl with 3 brothers living with young parents who displayed zero affection. Mother used her stonewalling and gaslighting as a form of communication and dad was seen as the aggressor with bouts of verbal & physical abuse.
I became aware of this toxic environment immediately and was thrusted into a role of mother & father emotionally. I tried being everything for my brothers. Big sister, friend and sometimes a parental figure to shield them from what I saw was emotional abuse.
The mother has been playing the victim for decades and has used and pitted her sons against me but it has only been obvious to me after cutting the family off 3 years ago. Her silent treatment has been more abusive and conniving over the years than my fathers abusive yelling growing up.
She has played the victim in every aspect of her life and has convinced my brothers to be the Madonna who does no wrong.
My brothers have been conditioned to never overstep their boundaries or say anything truthful about how we grew up. That would be ‘disrespectful.’ I have been the scapegoat, black sheep and always told to ‘get over it’ which is the family motto. Sweeping everything under the rug.
She has turned my brothers against me and it breaks my heart…
Yes, my brother was the golden child and as envious as I was, it destroyed him inside 😢 being the scapegoat was a hidden blessing because I did get therapy
Thank you for sharing your gift with us, Patrick. Each video makes me feel seen, understood, and less lonely in the world. No one truly gets it unless they lived the experience.
Hit the nail on the head once again, wow! I tried to talk about the dynamics as an adult and the family got upset at me. It went even more extreme after I brought it up and it trickled down to my kids. I also used to call my sister the golden child when I was a kid after years of mistreatment. Interesting how I could understand the term as a kid and I don’t even know where I heard that or if I made it up in my head. I grew up in the eighties and nineties.
This was incredibly helpful. I would love for you to create a video that addresses a child that is abused (such as sexual abuse ) by a parent but not believed by the siblings.. and how not being believed by the family impacts the survivor. Thank you.
I just found your channel and am going to follow you. You make a lot of sense and my trauma with my siblings and parents was very apparent to me. But, like you said , connecting with my siblings about the past is nearly impossible. All of us siblings are now in our 50's, early 60's and the strife is still there.
You said it. I think I'm the only one that even realizes there is a problem. Omg!!!!!! Nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m 58. The oldest. It’s still there. I hope you find some sense of peace or at least understanding here.
Jeez. I think mine will be like that. I thought i didn't have to deal with it and i'm healed since i moved out, but i'm finally trying to heal, whatever that means. They still are all the same. Good lord
There is a section at the beginning of the book "Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving" by Pete Walker that gives 4 different examples of 4 different kids who grew up in the same home and it describes me and my 3 brothers to a T.
I'm so glad my brother and I'm have finally started talking about this together. Unfortunately my other sibling (narcissist) had been covertly keeping us separate in a divide and conquer game.
Thank you so much Patrick. Oldest child here, parentified and now my adults siblings (all in our fifties) hold me in the same contempt and disdain that my father does. I am the only one who sought counseling. We were taken away from our mother when I was 12. Dad was on wife number two and has been divorced 5 times. He was marrying wife #4 a year out of high school. It was chaos and sadly he has not changed.
I’m 7 and 16 years older than my brothers so I saw the worst of my dad’s abuse, who has now somewhat changed into a less evil asshole. One of my brothers gets angry when I talk about how I can’t forgive my dad (or when I mention how toxic and misogynistic he still is), and the youngest brother (who endured the least abuse) just doesn’t get involved. We were also raised in an extreme Pentecostal household, which contributed to our trauma, but they still think we were a normal family, despite all 3 of us having major issues with everything from drugs to porn addiction to depression.
Isn’t it a mind f$ck to see your parents treat other siblings and grandkids so much better than they treated you? It leaves us feeling utterly worthless.
An interesting breakdown of the issue. Here's another scenario. When sibs don't have the same parents, biologically yes, but firstborn's formative years are the golden years of the marriage, middle children through the worst years, final child parented by parent(s) who have been through treatment recovery. My eldest and youngest sisters were in denial about our father's alcoholism and seem least influenced by his drinking, cheating, financial instability, absenteeism. Their nostalgia for childhood makes me feel like I'm from a different planet. I think my brother gets it but we're definitely not all on the same page about family dysfunction.
I was the golden child until I started standing up for myself and talking back as a young teenager. I knew my parents would never physically hurt me and the emotional/verbal abuse eventually became too much to tolerate, so I'd talk to them the same childish, immature way they'd talk to me
It's a very weird feeling, knowing that I was always told such positive and uplifting things as a young kid, only to be told I'm a mistake and destined to "be just like my mother" (not a good thing in my dads eyes) when I got older
I was also (sort of) the oldest, and deeply parentified. They'd even call me a little mommy bc I was so involved in parenting my siblings, but nobody saw any issue with that. They assumed I was just a naturally caring and motherly person. I believed it too until one of my little brothers told someone that I "pretty much raised" him. That validation, knowing he saw it that way too, really helped put in perspective how parentified I really was.
My dad's been dead for 3 years now and I can hardly bring myself to interact with my mom and siblings. I know the youngest ones see me as a parent so I don't want to abandon them, but I think my little sister always resented me for not parenting her (im only 2.5 years older, my brothers are 7 & 8 years younger than me). She only ever has hostility for me or our brothers unless she's getting her way.
I’m desperately I need of this type of therapy right now in my life.
Your videos are honestly changing my life. I am so grateful I found you and can't thank you enough for putting this information into the world.
So powerful. Thank you. Gonna take a while to digest. Feeling heard for the first time ever. ❤️
I have felt unable to understand why my older siblings seem unwilling to perceive our childhood trauma surrounding our mothers death. Our father was loving and tried his best but was extremely depressed and often absent, trying to make ends meet or have time to himself to heal. I really appreciate your videos on childhood trauma and I am curious if you have any that specifically deal with the death of a caregiver?
My husband worships his sister, and she worships him. Its so unhealthy. They both refuse to admit or acknowledge it and won't even allow anyone to point out how much it's hurting the kids and our marriages. It's sick
After my sister and I cut off our toxic mother, I warned our younger golden child brother that he would be the next target. He had no concept until it started happening. He now acknowledges the abuse of his two older sisters because, unfortunately, he got a huge dose of the monster she was.
I was the "one who never looked back." I was the oldest of my siblings in a dysfunctional family system and the one who could make the most sense of what was happening. I finished high school, went to college thousands of miles away and came back home to visit maybe only 10-11 times in the past 21+ years. Of course, my mother used that to make me feel guilty about "abandoning" my brother and sister to an abusive household. Now my siblings have fully grown up and live all over the country, so I guess we all never looked back in our own way.
I’m the middle child but had to “mother” my two brothers. Even as adults them being 33 and 29 I provided the parental advice and listening and emotional support and also provided financial assistance from helping with bills, groceries.
When my younger brother passed away I was responsible for handling all funeral arrangements. I am responsible for being the emotional support for Mom too. Literally being the glue that keep family together.
this is very sad.. it’s true on so many levels. i’ve actually decided not to have children (or plan for it) due to the dysfunction. I believe doing the work is important even when it feels hopeless.
Thank you for this video, and bless you! I let them go, continuously, and it is an ongoing process ! And I am sorry I didn't run and never turn my back 30 years ago, but I know why. I do my best to keep them behind my boundaries. The only thing I am afraid is not scapegoating them myself, not becoming them in trying to find the guilt and the blame and find somebody to put onto. Our entire society functioned and still does like this!
I see you as a brilliant young man, and I wish you the best and a peaceful and blessed journey through life! ❤
I am the oldest of four brothers. When we were younger, I was expected to provide more care for my brothers than any child should have to. As an adult, it broke my heart to find out that my youngest brother looked up to me as more of a parent than either of our actual parents.
Great video! You hit the nail on the head. I can relate to most of it. I'm in my early 50's and this is still an issue in my life. My sister is/was the golden enabled protected sibling who makes sure she is exalted to this day and very childish and blames one child for literally everything bad thing, we have the lion's den, attacks and the runs from it. I would never wish this psychological abuse on any one. I want to be the one who never looks back but i also want to first know they won't change and to deal with the grief, then bye bye psycho's!!
This is eye opening , you have great insight and seem to be someoneI wish I had help with years ago . Truth about what is really happening behind the scenes !
Oh my goodness! You have perfectly described my family! You have brought me, the "Scapegoat" of the family, immense clarity with this information in your video. Holy cow, YES!! Thank you Patrick for this gift of clarification that has been so chaotically confusing to me my entire life. Thank you!
my toxic parents died and the funerals were so difficult to attend as the scapegoat. one of my sisters passive aggressively tried to shame me publically. its so toxic when people train you to read minds, and feel responsible for their emotions and expectations, also your assertion is shamed. you have no power in the relationship because the system needs to make you "damned if you do damned if you don't" this is the purpose of the scapegoat role a place to send their anger or frustration, rather than place it on the idealized people where it belongs.
I didn’t grow up with my brother and being the fixer I contacted him. Wasted years wanting a normal sibling interaction. He was a carbon copy of my abusive mother. So glad they are both gone now, the peace is wonderful.
Does anyone have a brother who is the golden child for simply being born male? I'm latina & our culture, along with many others, pretty much expects women to cater to men. My mom & I especially clash because I refuse to do that. There's so many issues but that is the core issue of why my brother & I will never have a "normal" sibling relationship.
Average "white" Irish protestant here and my Brother could do no WRONG!
Definitely the case in my family. My brother was the “golden child” when we were growing up and then when he developed Huntington’s Disease, my sister and I grew closer because we had to take care of him and also be a sounding board for our mother who could not deal with the grief of her successful son being very angry and unstable.
"You'd never know they grew up with all of that" (shivers)...
but they did and no child goes through abuse unscathed.
You are a blessing to the internet 🙏 I've been seeing your videos for about a year, and your insights have given me so much peace. I won't journal about it in my comment, but I thank you for understanding, and sharing what you've learned for those of us who are ready to hear 💜✨️
I took care of my sister as a child, now she rolls into town and pushes me aside to care for mom. She hung up on me in 2015 when I said to “not talk about things she knows little about” (after insulting a supportive friend - a boundary) and has never chosen to make any good-faith effort to re-connect. I’m good with the lack of drama, but pissed at the revelation of her “family value level”. It was just the 3 of us. Lotta golden child there, but not entirely. Thanks for the chats.
Another good one right down my alleyway of my family bloodline of mental illness,alcoholism & addiction.
The only one of these issues that my siblings and I have avoided is mutual hate, but there's been very little of the attacking aspect as well.
Two of us (purposely childless) periodically discuss the toxic and neglectful aspects of our still enmeshed family, but the other sibling (the one whose material conditions actually ended up far better, and who provided The Grandchild) cannot handle addressing family trauma without going into attack mode, so we are all polite and superficial at family gatherings.
None of us has ever claimed to be the favorite child, but it's clear who Mom most approves of, and the other two siblings don't blame them for that, though the distancing and lack of ownership/responsibility/acknowledgement can be real irritating or make me sad on bad days. We were once close, and I will forever grieve that, but I've finally figured out their unspoken boundaries and will do my best to respect them.
Above edited for clarity and format. Addition: Key factors include gender, heteronormative roles, marital status, religion (the one facet that Mom thinks all her children have failed in), and professional accomplishments, though we all have bachelors degrees or more from accredited universities.
I screamed at your intro; screamed out loud! YES! The perp is protected. And the others are forgotten. So horrible; while I asked for protection they ignored and let the harm continue.
I’ve grown up with childhood trauma and my experience is that we are unique in our feelings even though we agreed on our past history. Yes, I’m more sensitive. Others have overcome it and been successful but I’m successful but struggle with our past history. What I’ve learn’t is we are all traumatised but deal with it differently and we are all equal if we don’t demonise the one that struggles. ❤
Really appreciate the descriptions of these issues. I'll be sending clients to watch this video. Thanks for sharing it!
I definitely relate to being the one who never looked back in the past, & I still carry some of that to this day.
I'd love some more content on this role and core things to recognise about it 😊
Thankyou for the great video!
I'm the middle child of 3 and i am definitely number 4 to a T. I understand that my position of remaining neutral and not taking a side can come across as abandonment, but in reality it stems from a place where i am watching the whole house up in flames and no one realizes i am trying to make them see they are in trouble. I have an older sibling that is #2 on this list, literally ran away, and a younger sibling who downward spiraled in self hate and disappeared as well. Despite this, my love for each person in the family never diminished, i tried to understand from each person's perspective instead of telling them what to do. Meanwhile i remained paralyzed and powerless to stop the fire from consuming my family and the heartache of abandonment left me alone in this world. And yes, i have come to the realization that as a result of the heartache i have become a tank that can take a great amount of emotional abuse. Life pounded my heart to death and i was trying desperately to keep it beating. Deep down my priority wasn't picking a side, because in my eyes every member of the family was a victim to something tragic in their past and had still not found a way to heal. In my eyes, picking a side where everyone is broken and needs help gets in the way of my deepest hope which is praying to God we could one day be healed and whole as a family. I hope this helps someone else understand #4.
I feel bad for the golden child because their perspective on the world seems to be run by the idea that they’re good and worthy, but just barely, they’re made the positive example, but even in being “good”, there’s an implied threat, that if you don’t continue to live up to expectations, you are worthless (like your siblings) - it just seems extremely isolating and an unfortunately a perfect environment for the child to develop narcissistic personality disorder. Their parents teach them that their own success *has to be* at the expense of others, which is extremely isolating
I was definitely parentified by my sister due to our parent's abuse and negligence. I've done a pretty immense amount of work in therapy and I don't want that from her now, I just want a relationship of some sort. It sucks that we can't seem to maintain a relationship, but this helps me see that she probably associates me with that trauma. It would just be nice to talk to someone who actually, truly gets it.
It’s super… weird to see that I’m an outlier when I have 2 siblings who all have put in work to heal & acknowledge the abuse. My sister is the oldest, she took on the parental role at the beginning and made the (right) choice to go to college far from us and forge her own life - but she’s also the most willing to maintain a relationship with our mom. My brother’s the middle child, he was the one to buy me great gifts, cook dinner for me, drive me around etc. and before that, when we were both little, we hated each other and grew closer with time. Now he’s my best friend and we lean on each other. I feel so much guilt as the youngest for my siblings needing to step in and be parents, but I’ve voiced this many times and neither hold any resentment towards me, just our mother. Now we all are low contact - some of us further along that stage than others - and all of us are in therapy. I’m really grateful we’ve all been able to start a healing process because I don’t know what I’d do without them. We’re the only people in the world who truly understand and know what we’ve been through - and to me that’s sacred.