Because it IS so prevalent probably. A lot of therapusts probably stay away from the subject because of their own issues, and others refuse to acknowledge their own trauma and fail as therapists.
Our biggest mistake is not knowing the different types of therapists. And we hang with the wrong one too long. My second one immediately told me precisely that my partner could never be trusted. I didn’t believe her. A thousand years of therapy was never going to fix that. Especially if the partner is not being honest.
Why don't we learn about this in school? Healthy relationships are integral to a healthy and fulfilled life. It would save a lot of heartache and suffering.
School specifically teaches you to be productive in a work environment and have both the skill and the compliance necessary to do that. What you're asking is to change the entire point of schooling towards replacing or integrating parenting.
I agree that it would be great if we could learn emotional intelligence and communication skills in school. This would help people in their adult life and save relationships.
Yes! If our parents are not able to model healthy relationships at home, what are our options? It certainly wouldn't have to take up the entire curriculum but would make education more humane and well rounded. 💡
@@Overt_Erre Yup, school is geared towards making us worker bees. Home economics and other growth classes that don't directly add to worker productively training is often axed because they can't justify it
My ex got with me because he saw I was a caretaker and he wanted to take out all of his anger at his mother at me, while still being taken care of like a literal child.
Men with mother wounds can very abusive emotionally and verbally abusive. I endured that from my husband who had a huge mother wound. It was narcissistic abuse. It’s heinous. I hope you’re healing from the damage.
Hope you're healing or are already healed ✨✨✨ for me it was the exact same thing with my ex. I'm still angry at him and have now PTSD - I'm also mad at myself for believing his future faking promises again and again 😔
I’m a hardcore stonewaller- confrontation is not my bag, if someone raises their voice at me I immediately begin shrinking into the back of my brain. You perfectly described the way I mentally check out when my partner is frustrated and wants to address it. He’s told me it feels as if he isn’t allowed to be angry, and I feel terrible that my trauma response has essentially erased his ability to freely express himself to me.
my only word of advice (and feel free to discard it as im just some stranger on the internet!) is that he needs to find a way to express anger in a way that doesn't immediately trigger you (a letter, only talking after he has calmed down on his own, only talking through things while holding hands or cuddling. something that allows him to communicate frustration and anger without making you feel like he's directing it at you.) at the same time, these will likely still be uncomfortable, so you would benefit from grounding/coping skills like deep breathing or focusing on something that utilizes one of your 5 senses so that you remain in the present moment, instead of being sucked into your traumatic past. what has worked for me is hearing that the other party is hurting, because that immediately brings me back to the moment and activates whatever is in my brain that lets me empathize with my partner instead. i dont know if this will help, i just hope for the best for you two
I feel that. If I am trying to communicate something that hurt me is when I really clam up, too. Like, mouth won’t work. And my partner will keep talking/explaining as if I am trying not to respond or something, but it isn’t that I don’t understand or I’m ignoring, it’s that I literally can’t speak lol Kind of like the other commenter said, I’ve been trying to stay in my body when I notice that/try to be aware of my surroundings so I don’t completely sink away. Also, maybe take some time to step out of the room and collect yourself so you can respond better. Doing Anna runkle’s daily practice really helped me with that. It like let’s you process all the bad feelings it brings up by yourself so it’s not coming out (or not not coming out) in your disagreement.
@@zorro...... my husband is the stonewaller and I have felt (and still often do) feel like I’m not allowed to have emotions. Writing down/journaling/brain dumping helps BUT until I started being able to share it with my husband, all the writing that was left me with a record of how many times I felt invalidated and felt like I wasn’t wanted and couldn’t be me. More recently I’ve taken to texting my thoughts and feelings to my husband, while he is isolating himself. Although that’s not always the greatest thing, it actually has led to us having a conversation via text and then eventually in person. The key is to still come back and allow both of us to be feel safe with our emotions. Our childrens psychologist refers to it as closing the loop.
@@zorro...... As someone who is regularly stonewalled by my partner, I can tell you that does not work. It doesn’t matter how gentle I am - if I bring up any discontent in any way, I’m ignored indefinitely. Not being able to express my feelings has been very difficult.
Awesome stuff Patrick. I am the aggressor and my partner is the codependent. Literally yesterday I said, “I think I’ve realized that every single time I think I’m mad at you, it is a completely irrational delusion, and I don’t want to do it anymore.” Now I have your video to help us on our journey. Thank you for everything you do.
as someone who's been the aggressor/codependent switching up, i know it takes a LOT to admit being an aggressor and that's a really good sign for your relationship healing. best of luck to you guys ❤️
My parents were 100% aggressor/codependent, and now I'm realizing I've been the "Doer" in a Doer/Tagalong marriage for 12 years. I've learned a lot about myself through therapy, and now that my husband has started doing some inner work, I'm so excited for us to make our way out of this dynamic! Thank you so much for your content.
Kind of funny that you're the Doer and initiated therapy and now the Tagalong is also in therapy to also do inner work. Like you're trying to fix your dynamic but have to use the dynamic to get there. I think it's important to remember that just because it's a trauma relationship, that doesn't meant it's a bad one. There's many positives as well in this dual edged sword. If we weren't getting something out of it, we wouldn't do it. Maybe your husband is happy taking your lead, and you'd rather not compromise, so now there's little friction. Or maybe you feel more secure in a relationship with a partner who isn't assertive because assertive people take action, and there's a part of you that would always be weary that action would be to leave. Ignore me. I'm bored drinking my morning coffee, projecting things I've seen on an absolute stranger. I'm not a tagalong(got my own BS though), and found myself in a relationship with a Doer. It felt like she had a picture of what she wanted her life to be like, and wanted to just paint me in. I wanted to paint that picture together. It didn't work out even though the love was there. I resisted her, which frustrated her and filled me with resentment. The irony is she wished me luck and hoped I'd find someone who just did whatever I wanted as though I was the Doer looking for a Tagalong. I wished her the same. Good times. Good times.
God bless! I hope it works out as consistently as possible. ♥️ Takes a lot of work. My husband and I are both trying to get past a similar dynamic. Both of us had abuse and neglect in our childhoods just different.
Patrick, could you cover loneliness, bullying and peer rejection in childhood and the effects in adulthood? From what I’ve read, loneliness is a full-blown epidemic nowadays with negative effects compared to the effects of daily smoking and obesity. I’m wondering if we could hear your take on the matter.
It's like im primed for a trauma bond, grafting to something, strategic and weaponized. To cling forever to the first person who is nice to me. And i know it. So i refuse to get close to anyone at all.
Alex, that is great insight. Have you watched older videos by Patrick? He has a great video about "attachment styles". Childhood attachment issues, affect us today. You described "dismissive avoidant". The core beliefs we grew up with aren't true. We don't have to continue to live like this. You matter. Your life matters. 🫂 I have found his videos about "inner child" helpful. Sending you hugs.
Dear Friend, don't give up on learning about your inner feelings! I am Seventy years old and I have found that learning about my own emotions is the most rewarding healing process we can do. As painful and scary as it feels at times it only gets better. Take care & know by watching these videos you are already on that adventure. It is a lifelong, never ending beautiful journey.
Truth!🔥🙌🏻 I was adopted at 5, neglect, abuse, abandonment. My adoptive parents were awesome, I just couldn’t receive their love. I didn’t know how. Fast forward to 20, met an amazing man in college, got married and all hell broke loose. We were SO toxic. Yep. I was 💯 drawn to the covert Narcissistic personality. 🤦♀️ My mother was a covert Narc as well. years of more trauma, pain and self denial and self abandonment. Then I woke up. I’m 51 now, not a victim but a victor! I’m empowered to take care of my self and not expect someone else to meet my needs. I also stopped trying to control others to feel safe. Total freedom in my relationships with others now. It’s a beautiful thing to heal. To love myself. My husband of 31 years, yes! We’re still married!! He started the healing work in his own childhood trauma, and he’s also so much more free and truly is loving and kind and encourages me now not criticize. He’s a victor as well! Healing is an ongoing journey everyday. But, I choose to stay free and to finally be able to connect with others in a true, positive way. It’s so much better to be healing than stay sick. Thanku for your wisdom! You were a catalyst in my ongoing journey. Blessings!
"childhood trauma gets fixed by doing deep work on ourselves, not by replaying patterns with our partners" Bingo! Long before I understood the influence of childhood trauma on my life, I saw the patterns. I recognized I was the common denominator and understood that I was incapable of having a healthy relationship. I knew that unless I fixed whatever it was, within me, that the next relationship would be a repeat of the others. Thankfully, I found John Bradshaw's work and began to understand what had happened. I was in my 40's. Thank you for your work. Awareness is what we need to break the cycles.
I'm afraid I might be a covert aggressor. I don't try to be cold or moody, and I hate it when it happens every time. It definitely comes from PTSD from my terrible childhood, as any sign of negativity makes me petrified. I can't stand conflict, so I subconsciously use my emotions to turn it back on the other person. The thing that makes it even harder to control is that it's 100% emotional. I'm not being calculated in my actions, I legitimately feel like I need to shell up and grow spikes to survive I really need therapy 😞
We say we hate confrontation but then have no problem confronting our loved ones aggressively. Cause we are so passive with everybody else but our loved ones and it's easy to pop that emotional balloon that was overflowing from being a people pleaser outside of the home. Any little thing they do is like an attack against us. That's my situation anyway.
How are you doing? Have you got the therapy you recognized you really needed? Theres a lot out there for those who can't access it, like this channel & it's monthly membership, the crappy childhood fairy (free morning exercise resources), and personally I've found PDS community & courses (Thais Gibson focus on attachment trauma & somatic regulation) really powerful, more in fact than therapy! Hope you have found something to start working on it for yourself & your partner 🤞🤗
I really commend you on being honest with yourself. I trust that if you keep that up, and are earnest in your intention to get better, you will definitely make it (:
I really notice how letting my partner have his feelings when he’s upset and patiently giving him time to come to me when he’s ready, has really helped our relationship.
Hm, I detect a hint of shaming and magical thinking here. Dealing with trauma is certainly necessary unfortunately often it’s also a privilege to get to do so. Having the peace of mind to reflect, the time and space to reflect or the funding to attend therapy in order to be guided in reflecting upon the trauma is essential. Too many people don’t even realize they’re living in pain due to trauma. Let alone watch this type of content to make sense of it all. Let’s also be mindful of that..
@@pearblossom2244 I don’t want you to remove a thing. I posted my point of view. And also I’m not triggered rather intrigued in how your comment was formulated. This is an open platform and I’m allowed to post my point of view as well.
It absolutely takes brave people to heal. There is sooo many ways to learn and grow and heal in 2022. Can everyone do it? No! But there are many ways to be Able to do it. This is a free resource. No money needed.
My best friend and I are 100% the stonewaller / chaser duo. I know this video is framed with couples in mind, but really it’s helpful for all kinds of close relationships (friends, partners, even siblings)!
i had that with one of my friends too. i have bpd so shutting down really triggers me and she always avoids conflict due to her anxiety. luckily i got my symptoms more in control now and we have a much healthier relationship now
100% agreed and for a long time I have wished that language around "couples therapy" could be more generalized and less focused on the romantic couple. My parents are aggressor/codependent but my sibling and I are chaser/ stonewaller. All intimate relationships need to have support and language for people in them to use! 💗
In the begining, I was definitely the doer, while my fiance was the tag-along. I was the parentified child and my fiance was the scapegoat, who could never do anything right in his mother's eyes. We latched onto eachother at a young age. Any major changes in our lives were from my doing as he just road along. Once we finally sat down and talked things out, we've actually reversed roles. He is now the nurturer (taking charge and making choices) while I am being taken care of (no longer the parent in my relationships). This reverse of roles strengthened our relationship. We will eventually shift to more even roles, but we're currently comfortable taking on these roles that we were denied.
I'm also in a doer/tag along relationship, funny how the pattern of parentified child/good for nothing scapegoat fits. We slowly got out of it over the years because I love being taken care of, but the core of the behaviors still permeate when there's a new situation coming.
@@silentladyd Yeah, that's completely understandable. He still looks to me when it comes to major events. Though I don't let him tuck his tail and follow. I'll sit down and talk out the major event, make sure his thoughts are heard before moving forward. Communication is key when both partners have CPTSD. We talk everything out when it comes up, because getting in our own heads will never end well. Just make sure you talk and you both feel heard. 💚
This is so eye-opening. My parents are the aggressor/co-dependent type. It amazes me how much they can switch. Being a child to parents like this is so confusing. They had a way of victimizing themselves and pointing their finger at each other saying that one or the other are the toxic one. I’m so upset that my parents put me in that “savior” role as a kid because I had such a hard time with relationships, because I wanted to help people. I thought that that was how I could get love. I had no sense of boundaries or a healthy model of relationships, so I was subjected to some really toxic people that hurt me. But I began to realize that I have a choice to be hurt or not. And I’m still just trying to learn to be more accountable with myself and try not to be like my parents who had no sense of accountability.
Your comment resonated. And I feel it. It was scary the first time, to even try having boundaries, deal with rejection. Then to shore up or tighten, have stronger boundaries. So much pain ive gone through. Goodness, I just keep at it, each step. Tipping my hat to ya.
Same with me. My parents divorced after 25 yrs & both remarried. Mother's husband of 25 yrs died & she found someone new & moved out of state within a few years. Then he died but she won't come back. Felt abandoned twice. Father's 2nd marriage still going (30 yrs) & feel more & more rejection as he ages. Feels like their own kids were last priority, esp with continuing dysfunction & rejection. I too have been in toxic relationships bc I'm the empathic understanding type. Now I'm more educated about NPD etc but doubt I'll find anybody who's capable of a healthy relationship. Never married & men probably afraid I'm too wise. Idk~
@@Lexi_Con hugs to you Lexi 💛 I can totally empathize with some of your experience. Keep living securely so the right secure person can come into your life. The wrong ones will shy away, but to your benefit 💝 I know this probably doesn't make it any easier. So proud of you for showing up for yourself and holding healthy boundaries 😊
I get more out of your videos than in decades of therapy. Thank you Patrick. Gotta say it's hard going and I've been crying since about 2 minutes in. I know I will get there though.
I have noticed that tears when they arise from the grief of mourning and insight, can be information about what we are grieving- even when it’s something we can now change, to grow. They release pain but they also inform us about where it started.
#2 I'm definitely the doer, I grew up with extreme poverty, homelessness, substance abuse, mental and physical illness the whole 9 yards. My husband and I both have a decent understanding of our childhood trauma and he definitely can fall into the tag along trap. He uses video games as an escape and in all honesty when he doesn't do anything on his days off yet I clean the entire house even with my 40 hour work week part of me doesn't mind. I can't express the level of panic I feel when he does the dishes without me having to ask. It's like someone took away my use or utility and he'll realize I'm not that great afterall. We both try our best to correct our actions and talk openly and honestly about our issues but it's hard when you feel like your only worth in life is the things and services you can provide to others. I'm thankful that he spends a lot of time reminding me that I'm worth more than that for him.
Yes! And it's like he's taking away my life's purpose! ...... even though I don't believe that, but my mom does...sorta. she loves to clean and organize. My only way to get attention and or stand out, was to be helpful as possible with chores.
The part where you say you feel like your worth in life is the things and services you can provide to others hits so close to my heart. Thank you for this major realization and insight
Hi Patrick, I recently left an abusive relationship, in part due to watching your videos. Your content helped me to recognise the impact of my childhood trauma, and how it affected me staying in such an unhealthy relationship. Thank you for taking the time to post your content, especially as so many of us can't access therapy.
Wow, i am so happy to read this, because my heart goes to all those nice people in the world, who are able to reflect about themselves and take action.
I am that kid... and also that parent 😢my kids have suffered through my unresolved, ignored trauma, and the repeated cycle of them being traumatized by me... at least my kids know it's a generational problem and that the cycle has lost some power.. and I've told them to not have kids until they are ready and healed to a point they can be the cycle enders.
@@jefframaki it is really hard to function while you are triggered, so most parents push away their pain, put the healing work off and the cycle continues. But doing that work looks just as messy to outsiders and even your kids. At least in my experience. But I am doing my best to break that cycle once and for all!
My god it’s like a breath of fresh air hearing about the doer/ tagalong. That is us 100% but I didn’t know that was a thing. When I tried to explain it in therapy, both my husband and therapist were just kinda shook that I said he is another child for me to manage. And then she kind of “took his side” so to speak, saying I should praise him for listening to podcasts about time management. The problem with me being a doer is I can’t even really do that. It’s so hard for me that I give up and get overwhelmed with it all. So I feel like I can’t even voice complaints that I’m a “doer”. The laundry and dishes aren’t even done! Oh well. We have made a ton of progress though. There’s just always work to do.
My mother and father were in this type of relationship, I now know thanks to this channel. I think of the doer as more of an attitude or mindset, rather than literally someone who gets everything done. My mom did the emotional labor, planning, and worrying for absolutely everything in our family system, while my father simply tagged along, heedless of everything she was keeping running. He contributed very little other than a paycheck. Even during their blowups, he was mostly silent. She was beyond frustrated. Then, after 35 years of marriage, he discarded her for someone else. Her sense of betrayal was enormous. Funnily enough, she became a much happier person without him.
I feel like that therapist is out of line and sounds like they were picking a bias, but that is the interpretation I am making from your reflection on the session. They invalidated what you're going through, only considering your partner in the situation. I suspect that you may need to seek a different therapist, but I am unsure how your partner would handle your decisions and feelings. I'm wishing you the best in this difficult dynamic.
I really appreciate reading the comments from people who identify as the "doer" role since I identify as the tag-along. The pain doers feel is foreign to me so I got a totally new perspective - I am jealous of doers because I would love to be able to do what they do. Instead I feel so inadequate trying to contribute because I always will be less competent than my partner, at everything, no matter how hard I try. He is hyper organized and efficient and I am hopelessly ADHD. As soon as I make a mistake about finances or something he will be frustrated and stop trusting me. I feel like in order for me to be an equal partner I have to be just as incredibly accomplished and competent as him and I know it's impossible. When he criticizes me I feel so worthless like "what even is the point of trying, I'll never be good enough anyway". It is 100 percent childhood trauma for both of us as I grew up with extreme physical and sexual abuse and he was the parentified golden child in an alcoholic home. We love each other deeply but it is so hard sometimes because we seem to get in these cycles where we trigger each other over and over
I really wish you healing. Is couples counseling an option? If both of you are committed to personal growth and self awareness it could be a sweet journey to safety together.
I'm the doer with an ADHD tag-along. One thing your spouse can work on that will help you is understanding when you make mistakes. It's probably because something hasn't been role modeled for you, and you've had to learn to do it yourself from the ground up. Getting a code phrase to use when you are winging it and are concerned it might go wrong could help. I've recently accepted I have to explicitly ask for things to be done and check out what he needs in the way of "this is the sequence of things needed" information.
I've been the tag-along as well. Thankfully, my husband is a very patient doer, but yeah. It's painful knowing that you will never be as capable as them (whether that's true or not), and it's painful watching them take on all the stressors and frustrations of YOUR life together, and not understanding why you can't just step up! Hopefully we can both work towards a more fulfilling life for ourselves and our partners ❤
I am a doer despite adhd! And I suspect my bf is adhd as well so I am trying to reframe me “nagging him to do chores” as me reminding him because I know he’s not going to easily remember what needs to get done, and be patient for him to do it in his own time. I don’t remember this stuff of my own volition either! I have a system of habit app and task apps on my phone I use. I recommend looking into some reminder apps! Most importantly it will take some trial and error to figure out a frequency of chores that is achievable to you and not overwhelming and get your partner on the same page with reasonable expectations. (For example since I work full time and have difficulty making time for chores and my side hustle/hobbies I can only clean my bathroom once a month. But once a month better than not at all) there’s plenty of resources or “life hacks” for getting things done with adhd but shame is a bad motivator. I recommend HowToADHD on youtube and ADHD Alien comics on twitter/insta.
I'm ADHD and was a tag-along. We switched roles when he became disabled. There was this awkward period where I was working 80 hrs a week and responsible for all the financing but couldn't drive myself to work or have a human conversation. My mom and I were aggressor\codependent-scapegoat. It was hard and mistakes happened. Luckily they weren't large and I found mentorship in-store for most of them instead of verbal abuse. (Absolute shocker.) And when it was verbal abuse? STRAIGHT TO HR. In the wake of a crisis, I was thrown in the deep end. But when I got there, others were willing to help, and I found out that I was incredibly capable in my own right. (Absolute shocker.) Now I practice incredibly specific "warlock rituals" and a "pirates' code" (otherwise, task hygiene and a routine respectively.) inorder to be "favored by my patron of chaos." (And take Rx) the result is that I am managing the doer role.
I was the doer in a doer/tag along pair for 8 years. Had a kid with the guy. It got worse, because he now had completion for his attention and he screamed in agony to shout out the kid to gain access to my attention. He was also ashamed of his tag along role and thus put us both in complete isolation, as I was not allowed guests, our house wasn't good enough, nothing I did was good enough etc. It eventually became physically and mentally nonviable for me to be the sole doer as my health was failing and I had to choose whether my kid or him gets the attention. I chose the kid and he left. I was for sure enabling his behaviour. I actually believed I needed that guy... That as little as he contributed, it was better than alone. Nope.
I’m a stonewall and a doer. My trauma comes from having to be coparent to my siblings, dealing with a mentally abusive step father and sorta parenting/being best friends with my mother. I had to be the one pulling everyone up out of the depths of hell. So I feel like my worth is tied to doing for others all the time. Also having to be in control to survive. When others get angry (doesn’t even have to be towards me) I shut down. Thats the step dad part. I don’t know how to process the intense emotions I feel. It is almost like a dagger plunging into my heart. So I shut down and become mute. Literally can’t speak. I am getting better but wow it feels good to pinpoint what it is. Thank you Patrick! Your videos are really helping me figure stuff out! ❤
I feel you. Also it’s the first time I read that somebody that shuts down can’t literally talk like me. I mean it’s not just difficult for me, it’s like physically impossible. I would love a video or some words about this topic.
@@Ale-uf7id im not an expert, but i experience this too. Its a heavily dissociative state of being. The explanation i heard is the following: during Events of trauma your brain focuses on surviving. All the energy goes to that task, so non-necessary Tasks get shut down. The Speaking/language center is a rather New and non-crucial part of our brain, so during trauma it can happen that it just shuts down. Then, when you get triggered, you re-live the experience and that brain part again goes into freeze, because you are occupied with literal survival, no speech needed
I can’t remember when I haven’t had shut down mode. It is immobilizing. I can’t force myself out of it. I can’t talk, can’t eat. Usually lasts days. Ugh
"the aggressors work is to really look at how their family of origin set them up to not value or honor intimacy" Wow....that just hit me like a blow to the face. I have been doing childhood trauma work now for a year and this is the first time I have seen this concept and it rings true in the depth of my soul. Thank you for this illumination.
same here, watching this video ive realized im the aggressor in my relationship paired with fearful avoidant attachment due to my emotionally unavailable parents as a child
This was so brilliant. Please explore these dynamics more… You have a gift for explaining complex issues in a empathetic non polarized way. Love this content.
So much of this sounds familiar. Despite the fact that my parents do love each other in their own very weird way, they've been locked in a bitter, miserable, intractable power struggle of the first type since probably before I was born. Once I got so aggravated with my mom's constant complaining about my dad that I asked her, "So why don't you just leave him??" She thought for a minute & then said, "Well...then he would have won." Unsurprisingly I've never really wanted to get married & have a family myself.
Sadly, I kind of know that feeling - staying with so out of spite but all you do is hurt yourself to maybe hurt them but more likely give them more chances to keep hurting you. It's absolutely stupid. I hope your mother will realise that too, soon. What a waste of your life otherwise.
I hope you don’t let the trap your parents created for themselves keep you from living your life. Relationships don’t have to be like that especially, If you are aware of your triggers, attachment style, and what kind of people your trauma is attracted to.
Bingo, 54 and never married. I see myself acting like my parents and I say no way in hell will I live that kind of life. I'd rather be single than have the kind of marriage my parents had.
I would ask my mother why she stayed with my dad if she hated him so much and she would say that she's been married to him long enough that she deserves his money. Sure enough he died 10 years ago and she got every penny of his money and she doesn't care of what the mental abuse she put us through staying with him. Now she tries to buy us with his money.
This is the first time I've ever had the relationship dynamic "Doer/Tag along" described to me and man it hits home. I even did a quick search and yeah no one's really talking about this relationship type. My partner is the doer and is pretty frustrated with my tagging along nature. They're wonderful and want to see me rise to challenges and contribute to our life together. It's very validating to have a name for the dilemma ♥️
So that's the kind that seemed to most fit us, but not completely. We both have areas of strength and weakness, and in our place of strength, both of us have a hard time saying no to overwhelming ourselves. And in the area of weakness, we both have a hard time wanting to try and get better. Here recently our situation has forced us to halve both with each other. He watches the kids and works from home/college, and I got a part time job and function in society. We both are uncomfortable and growing! When this ends, I think we'll have more respect for each other and hopefully it'll help us foster an intimate relationship again.(right now it's a bit strained with stress)
I've read about an active partner and a passive partner - one partner who essentially runs the whole show, and the other who just passively tags along for the ride. The active partner is attracted to the passive partner because the active partner lives to feel important and in control, but after awhile, the active partner, while still enjoying having the attention and control, starts to resent the passive partner because they just don't make an effort to do anything and don't express opinions, and the passive partner resents the active partners controlling nature and disregard for their input and opinions even though they aren't trying to offer them up. I was reading about "active women and passive men" because that's a dynamic I see very often, but the gender roles could be reversed in active-passive dynamic, of course). Look that up and you may find more info.
Agree with you about that. I was a tagalong all my teenage years and in my marriage. It originated from being shamed and having very low self-esteem. Since I could never be cool, competent, or correct about anything, I learned to be helpless for myself,but effective for the other person(s). I'm sad that I never knew about childhood post traumatic stress disorder until last year. If only I'd understood how and why, my whole life would have been better.
I was the stonewall! I still am sometime. For us, it works better with communication and compromise. I make the effort to verbalize the fact that I need 10 minutes alone to feel safe and then to come back to talk. This time also helps me to listen to myself, which I struggle with, when I’m triggered. And my partner makes the effort to accept this without chasing and worrying (I really love how she learned to handle it and the fact that she was able to explain to me what happens from her side). And I appreciated what Patrick said about the tolerance level, it was well explained. Actually, I need now less than 10 minutes or it happens that I’m ready to talk straight away. It’s like I have experimented that I can feel safe and my feeling can be respected.
Thank you for sharing this. My husband is the stonewall, and I am the chaser. Until recently, he would take that break, but when he would come back, he would act as if everything was fine, and I never got any closure. Eventually he would sense that something wasn’t right and asked me if I was OK or if I was upset and when I brought up the problem it started the cycle again. Seeing your comment gives me hope that the change we’ve recently made where we do come back and try to talk can work. With practice.
Could you please explain what felt Unsafe for you in remaining in the same space so you had to leave for some time? I don't understand that as the chaser.
@@RitaP41 for me it’s the trauma of being yelled at and belittled as a kid when my parent was visibly frustrated and upset. In the moment it just feels very directed and like everything’s your fault and you just feel very isolated almost because you’re at a loss of how to fix the situation when, like he mentioned, you’ve checked out and your limit has been reached. Which is ironic given the circumstances but just how things are brought up triggers those negative feelings and unproductive “conversations” in the past like he was saying with conflict. Just a reaction to the conflict basically. Once it reaches a certain point or you see your partner is so frustrated or upset by something that it’s escalated you check out and it’s very hard to process in the moment at that point.
I was in a relationship for 11 years that traversed SO many of these dynamics. Do'er/Tagalong, Aggresor/codependent, Stonewall/Chaser, and did a little of getting the band back together also. It was half him, half me. I wasn't raised around healthy couples, there was an absence of ANY couples in my life combined with what I consider unhealthy cultural beliefs. It was constantly reinforced to me that he was, "a nice person" and implied that I was the problem, especially when I reacted in frustration or anger at his lack of initiative, stonewalling, etc. There's also the common refrain that,"This is how men are".😫 I had to be the one to end it.
I too have seen those exact same reflections in my marriage that also has lasted 11 years. Very interesting how these dynamics are crossing over in similarities between other couples as well. And there is a lot of toxic masculinity involved where everyone expects us to accept it as valid. It’s not. We all have room to grow and develop.
This video made me realize that I always feel like a tag-along in friendships, and I feel guilty about it. I try to do more, but life gets in the way, and I see myself as a failure. I filled a schema therapy checklist, and I found out I have the schema of failure, that whatever I do is wrong, that I can't take care of myself, but I also realized I actually have a fight response to it. I end up doing everything on my own, and, when I look back, I realize the struggles I experience are due to lack of support. But, I still feel like a tag-along. I think this belief about me was re-enforced by both parents in some ways. Perhaps, in friendships, I become crushed by this belief, and the prophecy fulfills itself, or perhaps I end up narrating rifts in friendships as my failure to help people, not being good enough at things that seem to come easily to others.
You’ve just said what I couldn’t put into words for years. Thank you, thank you!! I relate to the tagging along part so much. I’ve always felt so invisible to myself and others, yet, always screaming internally.
Oof. Thank you. I have never seen my marital issues laid out so plainly. We are definitely the doer/tag along. I’ve never seen that dynamic talked about before.
I'm glad I viewed this, as it helped me feel like I was healing. As I described it to my partner, I respond to "ghosts" sometimes. I let him know I hadn't been through the best childhood, so that sometimes when I get upset, even if what he said caused a reaction to happen, I reassure him that the scale of the reaction isn't his fault. It's just me talking to ghosts. :)
My cupcake story with an Absorber: During the 2008 recession, I decided to prepare for layoff at my job and open a consignment store. Ex gradually became supportive, then so helpful with IT skills and helped with set up. But at Grand Opening, I came to find that all of my ex's friends were congratulating HER as if she opened the store and so glad that I was there to support...at end of party, she insisted all of her friend's should take the food and cupcakes that I BOUGHT! Wow!
I would love an in depth video for exercises on the doer/tag along relationship. This is exactly what my current partner feels like and I’m beginning to reach my end of being a doer. I think some exercises would be nice for me to do individually and maybe some as a couple to see if it’s repairable or not. Great video Patrick, thank you ❤️
I’m not a couple’s counselor or a regular counselor, but I feel like practicing acknowledging when your partner is trying/having patience and taking time to deal with the feelings it brings up. Letting them know that you value when they contribute, and then having patience/checking yourself when they do. (I know that is very difficult) Even small ways so they gain confidence in contributing.
I married my father. He was indifferent, apathetic, but the husband could also be physically abusive. I refused to play the role of my mother; sufficed to say been divorced over thirty years. If loving him was wrong, thank God I learned to move on.
Patrick, you have been an absolute well of information for me. If you could please please do a video on relationships with partners in denial about the connection to their own childhood? For example, a partner who says "I already did my work and put that to rest" when in actuality, they're still ruled by their own trauma responses..I hope this lands. Thank you so much for your content!!
I've observed a few of these relationships while growing up... I was personally involved in a couple of these relationships as well..now, at this stage of my healing, I don't date anyone who isn't doing inner work on themselves...this was a great description of these types of relationships and for healing tips, video. Thank you!
Right! My ex was very abusive with drug and alcohol addiction. Has never ONCE attempted to get therapy even though he has promised over and over. He doesn’t want to hear that he has a problem and he is a narcissist so he would just lie to be validated anyway I suppose.
Great info not only for romantic couples, but friendships. Getting some perspective on why I found myself (a slightly absorbent codependent) miserable in a couple of enmeshed friendships, and how I could’ve better handled some situations. Thank you, Patrick.
I love this video- my favorite that you’ve ever done! I love that you specially steer people AWAY from couples therapy at first. People who are codependent sometimes have this fantasy that couples therapy can fix anything. I think it’s a good litmus test of a relationship, if both people are willing to do their own separate work on their childhoods.
My husband and I share complex trauma. But we built our relationship up for over a year and then ditched the ceremony and eloped to the county courthouse. I’m grateful to have a spouse who understands my ptsd, as I can understand his. It made us much more patient. 21 years together in February’24. Our 19th anniversary was in August’23. I still appreciate this video as it absolutely applied to my former serious relationship. Hence, why he’s my EX fiancé.
This hits home so much for me. I see so much of this in myself and also in the people that I have been with. Also, it seems like I attract people with childhood trauma and vice versa. Almost like I’m extremely attracted to them but somehow, I don’t attract “normal” people. All of this makes a lot of sense and it leaves a lot of breadcrumbs to work on. But heck, it’s also exhausting… it feels like it’s too much and maybe it’s better to be single forever…
Hardcore #2 doer/tag-along. I was a big-time tag-along and felt almost blind-sided and victimized by how unhappy my doer boyfriend was. We're still together, but on a break, taking time to reflect in hopes of making the relationship healthier. We both have childhood trauma and grew up in different countries :')
Doer/tag was the most exhausting and frustrating relationship for me. Even though its over, its nice to be able to look back at my own wrongdoings in the relationship and work on myself for the future
I have been told I am always angry. What they see is a mean person. In reality, I am a hurt person who puts up walls and defenses. I staunchly defend myself because no one defended me as a child.
I was the unconscious 'doer' in the #2 Doer/ Tag Along. I'm a product of an alcoholic home my husband from an absurd controlling single mother upbringing. It took a while but once our child was born the one thing we both KNEW was that we did not want our child to grow up in the emotional environment we at that time. With mindful conversations and both of us holding ourselves accountable for our words and action plus therapy, we were [and continue] to make great progress. More than anything I want my child to have healthy relationships and experiences, I want them to have the 'normal' I cried and longed for during my chaotic childhood.
Thank you for this video. So much self help info focuses on why you should leave a dysfunctioning relationship and far too little about how to make it functional.
I'm watching my 25 year old son caught in unhealed trauma triggers. It is so hard to watch not knowing how to help or if I even should try. It is so painful to watch in silence as trauma, fear, grief, and low self esteem run his life.
This is the best most helpful video I’ve ever come across so far! I’m 67. I’m going to listen to this over and over. There’s tons of help here in this video! Thank you SO very much for making such content available! You are one in a billion!😊👍
Patrick is genius at noticing, explaining, and presenting. Gift to us all. Anyway - I want to add that I saw patterns emerge in myself and my clients in specific DOMAINS - money, sex, housework, planning, socializing and more. I also noticed that you can SEE some patterns in how the house is decorated, what the calendar looks like, the visa statement...I am personally a money tag-along because money freaks me out, and the doer when it comes to planning. I always explained it as divided domains, but there is more to it I now realize when I look at the origin of the behavior as unconscious unresolved issues. I now think there is a way to divide labor but no one should have eyes shut and hands off the wheel even with divided domains.
I was in a doer and tagalong relationship for 2.5 years. You've hit the nail on the head. I didn't realize he may have had childhood trauma until now. But I can see it, he definitely was babied by his mother. He was the favorite and lived with her until he was 25. She still washed his clothes and took care of his son more than he did. I left him because I refused to be a parent to him, his son and my daughter. I felt like a slave, and I wanted to be treated as an equal. I was so relieved once we broke up, despite being technically homeless. I was much better off parenting my daughter alone than having to parent all 3 of them. He never cleaned, or cooked or anything. He always expected praise because he "kept the kids alive today". Literally he'd say that to me and expect me to say "great job" 🙄 It took a coworker pointing out to me that I did everything for our family, and I worked full time with regular overtime. He barely did anything and only worked about 20 hours a week, for me to realize the imbalance. I requested him to help more and do things like take out the trash when it was full. But that was too much for him to do. Truthfully, I'm not sure how he and his son lived in that house after I left. As far I know he isn't or wasn't at the time capable of doing anything for himself much less a 4 year old.
My mother was in a "getting the band back together" relationship for 7 years. They were off and on. My mother had a restraining order put on him. Then ignored it. Then put him jail. Then they got back together. She got with her current husband. Then 8 months later she got married and she cheated with the first guy. Off and on for years. My step dad and my mother have been separated for almost 8 years now but they're still married. 🤷♀️
I think my mother and second step dad were the first set. The aggressor (my mother, no doubt) and codependent. He usually just went along with what she said or did and didn't protect us at all. She was very physically and emotionally abusive. She manipulated everyone, even him. Lots of drug abuse with them too. My mother has a history of drug abuse before I was even born. But my step dad didn't until after they got married.
@@mamaofthree8585 there is still a form of responsibility when you saw that he was not capable of taking care Like contacting the authorities because of it If you did that, than please ignore
I feel like I had a relatively healthy upbringing and don’t feel like I have any significant childhood trauma but my husband (together 28 years/married 20) is definitely the aggressor and I have fallen into the codependent trauma bonded role. Not understanding that what was happening was abuse and now that I have finally realized it I feel so traumatized I can hardly function. My children keep me sane and out of depression, but I also (now that I know what I know) am seeing the signs of childhood trauma in both of them and I’m crushed that I stayed in this relationship for so long and dragged them along with me instead of protecting them. It’s been such a cycle of abuse, hoovering, promises to change and back again. All verbal, emotional psychological abusive behavior and me becoming eventually with time into a reactive abuser. If I don’t believe I have any childhood trauma to have entrapped myself into this type of relationship, how could I have allowed it to happen?
There is nearly no chance that you have not adapted any negative core-beliefs as a child. Your parents can be "good" parents and still not have met your needs. Sometimes it is as simple as being in childcare to early (before age 2) or having had a horrible time at school and no support from your parents. The guy I used to date also said to me that his parents are great, still in love and that everything was fine in his childhood. Turns out, he has very limited memories of his childhood (people that don't remember much of their childhood had to emotionally shut themselves off because their needs weren't met) and no one in his family talks about feelings and emotions. He was considered the "sensitive" child, so his parents were basically overwhelmed and couldn't support him. His parents are also Hippies, so he had hardly any boundaries and was therefore neglected on another level. He believes that he can only survive in this world by being independent and by being on his own. Other people's emotions in a relationship flood him, so he stonewalls, shuts himself out and is a tagalong to have the least amount of conflict.... And he has NO IDEA. The answer to your question: You would not have stayed if one of your negative core-beliefs wouldn't have been triggered. The key is to identify and figure out WHAT it is and where it comes from.
Wow. I am a chaser. My dad died when I was 5 but I wasn’t told how, when I was 12 I found his suicide note and it definitely “changed everything”, with a traumatized and distant mother. Mind blown. This video really resonates. Thank you.
Wow! This is what we needed! My husband and I have been together for 21 years and have 4 kids. We both came from abusive families. What I got from this video is that we have both been all of them at different times over the years! Excluding the last couples dynamic. We have never broken up, never cheated, and always been able to work it out because we genuinely love each other. That's taken MOUNDS of effort from both of us! We are now in the next phase in our relationship where CPTSD is bubbling up and more annoying to deal with, on both ends, because we can see each others patterns. I'm so glad your videos came into my feed! We definitely need to sign up for your healing group. Just need to make it work financially and we are jumping on board! We are together till death do us part. Seriously, I love that man so dang much. ❤ and he loves me right back 😍
Patrick, this is such a GREAT video! I wish that everybody was taught this information in school because all I see *everywhere* are people (including myself) unconsciously reacting to the unresolved trauma in their lives! Only now can I see that my lack of insight about my traumas kept me LOCKED in an aggressor/codependent marriage. We were together for 25 years, but it really should have ended within the first 2 years ( and only lasted so long because I was shaped to be really excellent at smoothing and placating aggressors😢).
I am definitely the flip side where my partner is anxious. This helped me understand my coping mechanisms and even though I could brainwash myself into thinking it’s justified to be cruel, it isn’t. I took years of therapy, medication and change. I had to learn that partnership *should* feel safe and that I’m worthy of it. I am engaged, and we are working constantly but never once became mean, screamed or let the other pass the others boundaries. It’s possible to change, I was reluctant because when I realized my problems I just thought “I’m awful what’s the point I’m unloveable” and my partner used to chase me, which kept the cycle to repeat. Healing is self love, and when you feel worthless you lose your will. The guilt is all consuming, but healing my childhood trauma was the root. I am worthy of love, and am a good partner. Healing is the hardest thing to do but my god beyond worth it. I began living.
My husband once told me that the person who cares the least has the most control. My kids’ pediatrician told me upon meeting my husband that I really had four kids not three. He also talks to his family all about what goes on in our family and cannot make a decision without their in put. I’m standing right there with my thoughts, but those are not relevant.
The person that cares the least has the most control. That's sad, immature and cruel imo. Work on YOU 💜 so you are equipped to make healthy informed boundaries with him and the in-laws.
The doer and the tagalong describes my husband and I perfectly until very recently when I suffered a series of difficult experiences, which seem to have paralyzed me. I thought I had overcome my childhood trauma/molestation/abuse. But now twenty some years after marriage, taking on far more than I could handle including too much at work, caring for my dying father, our own children, my pregnant sister and her children, death of my father, reoccurrence of seizures, loss of job, and then discovering my husband reoccurring infidelity… it all just feels like it has broken me. The courage, strength, and determination that got me through earlier just isn’t there anymore. I worked so hard to get where I am today and now it simply just feels pointless.
I am so sorry to hear that. Unfortunately that sounds like the series of the past 25 years of my life and then I got a tick related illness. The tick thing is much better but my marriage didn't survive because I was fed up with his stonewalling . I use to be able, to be wonder woman for years and now I feel so broken and defeated I can barely manage to make my bed. I bid you good luck .
My grandparents played a big role in the family system and I grew up as if I have had 4 parents. Feels tough to untangle and this helps immensely. I've been the golden child then also a scapegoat and infantilized and parentified at the same time too. I could identify both me and my caregivers in 3 roles at once! I've been mostly the codependent, tag along and absorber in relationships. Increadibly helpful. Tied a lot of stuff together for me rn. Another huge part of the mozaic comes into place. Thank you!!
@@barostakuk1058 same here! Although my grandpa wasn't in the picture but my grandma was heavily involved in my upbringing, other than that I totally relate to the different roles you also mentioned, in childhood as well as now!
Thank you so much for such a clear description of the doer/tag along. My life! It’s a ridiculous situation. My parents were the same. I’m working to move beyond this… 😊
As a woman on the life long journey in recovery and healing i just want to say thank you Patrick so very much for all of your work!! Much love and God bless!! ✨🙏😇✌️💖🕯️✨
It’s interesting to hear this perspective. I’ve never thought or that form of “aggression “ as just that. I’ve found that in my last relationship, I was certainly that role because I was trying to get them to meet me half way and explain their actions. I would explain why I would act (react) in a way based on how they’re actions made me feel (or how I felt because of their actions), and I just wanted to know why they treated me the way they did. They never could. All they could say was that they would ignore me because of how I react, but I know better. My reactions didn’t come from nothing 🙄 And round and round we went
It’s crazy listening to this and, it not so much modeling any romantic relationships I’ve had but each of the examples mirrors many of my platonic relationships. With my trauma I can be different with different people so I wear so many hats and it’s surprising how much these examples speak to me.
Thank you Patrick!!! You spell out "ABUSE" so clearly!! I'm 64 and recently started dating a man who is real controlling. I'm a secure happy, healthy woman who has done the hard work to be secure. So after 4 months of dating I see clearly this man is toxic & emotionally unhealthy & immature. Don't want to change him but can't continue to accept his toxic trauma bonding ways. It's so sad. 🙁
My last romantic relationship before meeting my wife was very much the aggressor/codependent dynamic. All the ones before were also unhealthy in different ways. Growing up, mother's wants/needs/feelings where all that mattered and dad avoided conflict with her by drinking beer and playing golf, so it's not hard to see where I got messed up ideas about what love looks like. Luckily, I got to a point where I'd matured and done enough work on myself that I stopped recreating those patterns.
I started down the path of the Aggressor with my ex, but I also acted out the Stonewall dynamic a lot. We could talk about our traumas to an extent, so it was easy to mistake our dysfunction for progress because we were stuck between both. We tried a poly relationship and he eventually replaced me with someone else and I left when I realized it. I tried fighting my feelings of inadequacy and resisted the urge to act out because I believed I was solving my issues, but didn't know how to do that until my family finally started addressing their issues out in the open, finally helping me realize that I wasn't delusional as a child. My parents became the Absorber/Enabler. They couldn't know how aware I was that something felt wrong. I was too young to know it was dysfunctional, and eventually forgot how I started my own dysfunction. I learned how to bury my needs to play small and never questioned how broken that was, because I could see they were aware that something was wrong and simply followed along. All my adult relationships have been thirty years of trauma bonds. Nobody chose my actions for me, and I work through this in therapy. I am acutely aware of how someone can fall blindly into toxic habits.
Wow this is massively helpful, I had a couple of lightbulb moments. I think it would be nice to have a more in-depth video on how to keep the door closed after breakups, it's so difficult when the inner child has so much love and selective memory for people from the past. Maybe journaling about the bad stuff could be helpful? Like keeping a list of why they were not good for us. As always, thank you so much for the amazing content!
I would like to see this content as well! My love doesn't really end for people no matter what they do once I'm in the thick of their lives. Setting boundaries and sticking to them feels like some huge ideological betrayal of my values or heart.
This is the first time I've heard anyone articulate the tag along situation...I have literally called this poor man the puppy my daughter brought me. They are 100 percent in this dynamic, I have pushed and given grace without actually knowing what is happening, but this helps so much. They are pregnant now so it's VERY MUCH TIME to figure out what's going on and how to help❤❤❤
Omg when you said the aggressor was raised to not value intimacy, my jaw dropped because that’s exactly why I broke up with my boyfriend. I loved him more than I loved any man, but he was the “aggressor” in the relationship, and his lack of intimacy is the one thing I couldn’t get past. I craved it so badly and he was unable to give it. You nailed this video! Thank you ❤️
Geez…I see parts of myself in all of these types to some extent. I haven’t been in a #5 situation but there certainly can be the temptation to contact an ex which can be hard to resist. I also recently realized I repeat the same unhealthy cycle when it comes to relationships so I’m working on trying to stop this from getting caught up in it again. Great video!
My parents are a aggressor/codependent couple, and I'm in a 5years of marraige relationship which is also a trauma based relationship, researching to figure it out.... Thanks for all these information, I always watch your videos on UA-cam, on childhood trauma, I read your journals, whenever I feel puzzled, overwhelmed or unheard.. these really help me a lot.... I also share all these info with some of my friends, who are facing kind of same....
OMG Patrick no.5 had me 😭😭😭 My ex and I have just ended this relationship after 6 years. It was exhausting and exhilarating at the same time. Getting back together was falling in love all over again and again. Breaking up was reinforcing my abandonment wounds over and over. I couldn't understand why it kept happening. Now I understand it so much better. Thank you 🙌 We both have so much work to do separately. And possibly someday we can see if we are capable of being in a healthy relationship together.
My recent ex husband and I have split and gotten back together several times and we have married one another twice. It's crazy . He was stonewaller and I was chaser.
I was the enabler, because I was desperate for emotional connection, due to social neglect growing up. I’ve worked really hard over the years at not throwing myself at people like that, anymore.
My parents set the example of being the aggressor/codependent relationship, while being victims of growing up in dysfunctional homes themselves, though my maternal grandparents were more the example of the tag along example. My mother got mixed messages from her parents as a kid, while my dad retreated into fantasy and bad-timing humor to escape the constant fighting at home, with our paternal grandfather turning to alcohol to numb it all out. But my parents actually did worse than their parents, because at least their respective parents didn't resort to physical violence to control the other, like our mother did to our dad, and, sad thing is, they're still married, because they wouldn't know what to do otherwise. They really should've done us a favor and divorced before we kids came along, because they ended up dragging us along into their sorry situation. This is why divorce exists. It was no treat being a child growing up in a scary house of constant chaos, hearing our parents call each other all of these ugly words and the crazy accusations. It's not always kind to stay together "for the kids," and they were too busy screaming at each other to focus on us kids unless it was to punish us, anyway. They got married for the wrong reasons, and even tried couples therapy, but absolutely nothing could be fixed, and it's infuriating how they had almost 10 years to get divorced before we were born, but they decided that a baby can somehow shoulder the burden and fix their adult problems for them. Obviously, I couldn't. Nor did I care, since my home situation affected my behavior and performance at school, so I had my own problems to worry about. Then there were additional fights at home between my parents over who was responsible for how "bad" I turned out, so I felt horrible all the time. Also, no matter how badly he got treated and hated her for it, my dad would still enable our mother due to "peace at any price," even though a lot of the time it came with the price of invalidating us kids. My sister and I were additionally pitted against one another as rivals growing up, made much worse due to our closeness in age, and, growing up witnessing how our parents "talked" to each other, we fought like a urinals, which only caused more explosions at home behind closed doors. No surprise to admit that both my sister and I can't tell the difference between a basic kind gesture vs love, and that we've also struggled our whole lives in aggressor/codependent relationships ourselves, with us being the albeit unintentional aggressors with rules and preferences for everything. I think we're worse than our parents, too, because I haven't noticed that we also tend to stonewall at times in addition to that. This is one of the reasons why I don't want to get married and chose, at a very early age, to never have children of my own.
Amazing content! Sadly so much resonated but after years of really uncovering my own trauma and role in relationships I’m much healthier and more clear. This is outstanding content! You never stop learning, healing or growing so this is pertinent no matter where you are in your journey. Thank you so very much☺️❤️🙏
Why is it so hard to find a therapist who really understands abusive family systems? It is such a prevalent form of trauma
Right!!!!
Because it IS so prevalent probably. A lot of therapusts probably stay away from the subject because of their own issues, and others refuse to acknowledge their own trauma and fail as therapists.
Our biggest mistake is not knowing the different types of therapists. And we hang with the wrong one too long. My second one immediately told me precisely that my partner could never be trusted. I didn’t believe her. A thousand years of therapy was never going to fix that. Especially if the partner is not being honest.
Why don't we learn about this in school? Healthy relationships are integral to a healthy and fulfilled life. It would save a lot of heartache and suffering.
School specifically teaches you to be productive in a work environment and have both the skill and the compliance necessary to do that. What you're asking is to change the entire point of schooling towards replacing or integrating parenting.
I agree that it would be great if we could learn emotional intelligence and communication skills in school. This would help people in their adult life and save relationships.
Yes! If our parents are not able to model healthy relationships at home, what are our options? It certainly wouldn't have to take up the entire curriculum but would make education more humane and well rounded. 💡
I agree @@everlast6678
@@Overt_Erre Yup, school is geared towards making us worker bees. Home economics and other growth classes that don't directly add to worker productively training is often axed because they can't justify it
My ex got with me because he saw I was a caretaker and he wanted to take out all of his anger at his mother at me, while still being taken care of like a literal child.
Same.
Men with mother wounds can very abusive emotionally and verbally abusive. I endured that from my husband who had a huge mother wound. It was narcissistic abuse. It’s heinous. I hope you’re healing from the damage.
Hope you're healing or are already healed ✨✨✨ for me it was the exact same thing with my ex. I'm still angry at him and have now PTSD - I'm also mad at myself for believing his future faking promises again and again 😔
omg so many of my exes
@@liru3810 same with my ex. And, always believed his future Faking.
“Trying to get blood from a stone is like the hallmark of codependency.”
My mouth dropped as I involuntarily gasped upon hearing this. Had to pick my jaw up off the floor 💀
Doer feels resentment in the present that they *weren’t allowed* to feel in their family of origin 🤯 thank you so much
that was the most poignant part to me too!
It's true with all our emotions. We start to feel them in Relationships and when we have Kids.
I’m a hardcore stonewaller- confrontation is not my bag, if someone raises their voice at me I immediately begin shrinking into the back of my brain. You perfectly described the way I mentally check out when my partner is frustrated and wants to address it. He’s told me it feels as if he isn’t allowed to be angry, and I feel terrible that my trauma response has essentially erased his ability to freely express himself to me.
my only word of advice (and feel free to discard it as im just some stranger on the internet!) is that he needs to find a way to express anger in a way that doesn't immediately trigger you (a letter, only talking after he has calmed down on his own, only talking through things while holding hands or cuddling. something that allows him to communicate frustration and anger without making you feel like he's directing it at you.)
at the same time, these will likely still be uncomfortable, so you would benefit from grounding/coping skills like deep breathing or focusing on something that utilizes one of your 5 senses so that you remain in the present moment, instead of being sucked into your traumatic past.
what has worked for me is hearing that the other party is hurting, because that immediately brings me back to the moment and activates whatever is in my brain that lets me empathize with my partner instead.
i dont know if this will help, i just hope for the best for you two
I feel that. If I am trying to communicate something that hurt me is when I really clam up, too. Like, mouth won’t work.
And my partner will keep talking/explaining as if I am trying not to respond or something, but it isn’t that I don’t understand or I’m ignoring, it’s that I literally can’t speak lol
Kind of like the other commenter said, I’ve been trying to stay in my body when I notice that/try to be aware of my surroundings so I don’t completely sink away.
Also, maybe take some time to step out of the room and collect yourself so you can respond better. Doing Anna runkle’s daily practice really helped me with that. It like let’s you process all the bad feelings it brings up by yourself so it’s not coming out (or not not coming out) in your disagreement.
Not taking responsibility is the worst... Poor man...
@@zorro...... my husband is the stonewaller and I have felt (and still often do) feel like I’m not allowed to have emotions. Writing down/journaling/brain dumping helps BUT until I started being able to share it with my husband, all the writing that was left me with a record of how many times I felt invalidated and felt like I wasn’t wanted and couldn’t be me. More recently I’ve taken to texting my thoughts and feelings to my husband, while he is isolating himself. Although that’s not always the greatest thing, it actually has led to us having a conversation via text and then eventually in person. The key is to still come back and allow both of us to be feel safe with our emotions. Our childrens psychologist refers to it as closing the loop.
@@zorro...... As someone who is regularly stonewalled by my partner, I can tell you that does not work. It doesn’t matter how gentle I am - if I bring up any discontent in any way, I’m ignored indefinitely. Not being able to express my feelings has been very difficult.
Awesome stuff Patrick. I am the aggressor and my partner is the codependent. Literally yesterday I said, “I think I’ve realized that every single time I think I’m mad at you, it is a completely irrational delusion, and I don’t want to do it anymore.” Now I have your video to help us on our journey. Thank you for everything you do.
as someone who's been the aggressor/codependent switching up, i know it takes a LOT to admit being an aggressor and that's a really good sign for your relationship healing. best of luck to you guys ❤️
@@wastelandbaby1264 this comment made my morning. Thanks for believing in us. We have been doing really well lately. ❤️
Good luck on your journey!!
Wow, that gives me hope for the world xxx
I wish mine would realize what you have.
My parents were 100% aggressor/codependent, and now I'm realizing I've been the "Doer" in a Doer/Tagalong marriage for 12 years. I've learned a lot about myself through therapy, and now that my husband has started doing some inner work, I'm so excited for us to make our way out of this dynamic! Thank you so much for your content.
This is great to read!🎉
Kind of funny that you're the Doer and initiated therapy and now the Tagalong is also in therapy to also do inner work. Like you're trying to fix your dynamic but have to use the dynamic to get there. I think it's important to remember that just because it's a trauma relationship, that doesn't meant it's a bad one. There's many positives as well in this dual edged sword. If we weren't getting something out of it, we wouldn't do it. Maybe your husband is happy taking your lead, and you'd rather not compromise, so now there's little friction. Or maybe you feel more secure in a relationship with a partner who isn't assertive because assertive people take action, and there's a part of you that would always be weary that action would be to leave. Ignore me. I'm bored drinking my morning coffee, projecting things I've seen on an absolute stranger. I'm not a tagalong(got my own BS though), and found myself in a relationship with a Doer. It felt like she had a picture of what she wanted her life to be like, and wanted to just paint me in. I wanted to paint that picture together. It didn't work out even though the love was there. I resisted her, which frustrated her and filled me with resentment. The irony is she wished me luck and hoped I'd find someone who just did whatever I wanted as though I was the Doer looking for a Tagalong. I wished her the same. Good times. Good times.
Doer/tagalong is the first time I've heard of this dynamic but it sounds like my past marriage so I'm going to look into it thanks 😊
God bless! I hope it works out as consistently as possible. ♥️ Takes a lot of work. My husband and I are both trying to get past a similar dynamic. Both of us had abuse and neglect in our childhoods just different.
You had me at doer and tagalong 😳 more please 😉
As a very young child, growing up with a narcissistic mother and a family life riddled with alcohol abuse, I felt like an observer in a horror movie.
Wow. This is a sentence I will save for me. This is exactly how I am walking around, and working on being active and engaging more with life
Patrick, could you cover loneliness, bullying and peer rejection in childhood and the effects in adulthood? From what I’ve read, loneliness is a full-blown epidemic nowadays with negative effects compared to the effects of daily smoking and obesity. I’m wondering if we could hear your take on the matter.
Same dynamics, if oversimlified; Neglect and Abandonment leads to Loneliness and Rejection. Chaos and Abuse lead to Bullying.
I’d love that. I was a very lonely child and I still feel completely alone as an adult with good people in my life.
It's like im primed for a trauma bond, grafting to something, strategic and weaponized. To cling forever to the first person who is nice to me. And i know it. So i refuse to get close to anyone at all.
Alex, that is great insight. Have you watched older videos by Patrick? He has a great video about "attachment styles". Childhood attachment issues, affect us today. You described "dismissive avoidant". The core beliefs we grew up with aren't true.
We don't have to continue to live like this. You matter. Your life matters. 🫂
I have found his videos about "inner child" helpful. Sending you hugs.
Dear Friend, don't give up on learning about your inner feelings! I am Seventy years old and I have found that learning about my own emotions is the most rewarding healing process we can do. As painful and scary as it feels at times it only gets better. Take care & know by watching these videos you are already on that adventure. It is a lifelong, never ending beautiful journey.
Truth!🔥🙌🏻 I was adopted at 5, neglect, abuse, abandonment. My adoptive parents were awesome, I just couldn’t receive their love. I didn’t know how. Fast forward to 20, met an amazing man in college, got married and all hell broke loose. We were SO toxic. Yep. I was 💯 drawn to the covert Narcissistic personality. 🤦♀️ My mother was a covert Narc as well. years of more trauma, pain and self denial and self abandonment. Then I woke up. I’m 51 now, not a victim but a victor! I’m empowered to take care of my self and not expect someone else to meet my needs. I also stopped trying to control others to feel safe. Total freedom in my relationships with others now. It’s a beautiful thing to heal. To love myself. My husband of 31 years, yes! We’re still married!! He started the healing work in his own childhood trauma, and he’s also so much more free and truly is loving and kind and encourages me now not criticize. He’s a victor as well! Healing is an ongoing journey everyday. But, I choose to stay free and to finally be able to connect with others in a true, positive way. It’s so much better to be healing than stay sick. Thanku for your wisdom! You were a catalyst in my ongoing journey. Blessings!
That's unusual for narcissist to get help. Glad it worked out.
This is beautiful Karin, thank you for sharing.
I’m so happy for you both! Your journey gives me hope🌱
Beautiful SUCCESS, Dear One. Many Blessings to you & yours. 😊🙏🏼🕊
I love that you were able to heal together ❤
"childhood trauma gets fixed by doing deep work on ourselves, not by replaying patterns with our partners"
Bingo!
Long before I understood the influence of childhood trauma on my life, I saw the patterns. I recognized I was the common denominator and understood that I was incapable of having a healthy relationship. I knew that unless I fixed whatever it was, within me, that the next relationship would be a repeat of the others.
Thankfully, I found John Bradshaw's work and began to understand what had happened. I was in my 40's.
Thank you for your work. Awareness is what we need to break the cycles.
I'm afraid I might be a covert aggressor. I don't try to be cold or moody, and I hate it when it happens every time. It definitely comes from PTSD from my terrible childhood, as any sign of negativity makes me petrified. I can't stand conflict, so I subconsciously use my emotions to turn it back on the other person. The thing that makes it even harder to control is that it's 100% emotional. I'm not being calculated in my actions, I legitimately feel like I need to shell up and grow spikes to survive
I really need therapy 😞
We say we hate confrontation but then have no problem confronting our loved ones aggressively. Cause we are so passive with everybody else but our loved ones and it's easy to pop that emotional balloon that was overflowing from being a people pleaser outside of the home. Any little thing they do is like an attack against us. That's my situation anyway.
This comment describes me perfectly.
How are you doing? Have you got the therapy you recognized you really needed? Theres a lot out there for those who can't access it, like this channel & it's monthly membership, the crappy childhood fairy (free morning exercise resources), and personally I've found PDS community & courses (Thais Gibson focus on attachment trauma & somatic regulation) really powerful, more in fact than therapy! Hope you have found something to start working on it for yourself & your partner 🤞🤗
Realizing it helps ! It's the first step and the hardest - you were a victim and now you just need help 💖💕💜
I really commend you on being honest with yourself. I trust that if you keep that up, and are earnest in your intention to get better, you will definitely make it (:
I really notice how letting my partner have his feelings when he’s upset and patiently giving him time to come to me when he’s ready, has really helped our relationship.
You're the best at Childhood Trauma.
You should have a million subs...
Oh wait...it takes BRAVE PEOPLE to actually address our Trauma.
Hm, I detect a hint of shaming and magical thinking here. Dealing with trauma is certainly necessary unfortunately often it’s also a privilege to get to do so. Having the peace of mind to reflect, the time and space to reflect or the funding to attend therapy in order to be guided in reflecting upon the trauma is essential. Too many people don’t even realize they’re living in pain due to trauma. Let alone watch this type of content to make sense of it all. Let’s also be mindful of that..
@@browniebun triggered you? I was complementing him on such an awesome trauma program.
What part would you like me to remove for you?
@@pearblossom2244 I don’t want you to remove a thing. I posted my point of view. And also I’m not triggered rather intrigued in how your comment was formulated. This is an open platform and I’m allowed to post my point of view as well.
It absolutely takes brave people to heal. There is sooo many ways to learn and grow and heal in 2022. Can everyone do it? No! But there are many ways to be Able to do it. This is a free resource. No money needed.
@@pearblossom2244 Wow, I thought his reply was respectful and helpful. No need to be defensive here.
My best friend and I are 100% the stonewaller / chaser duo. I know this video is framed with couples in mind, but really it’s helpful for all kinds of close relationships (friends, partners, even siblings)!
i had that with one of my friends too. i have bpd so shutting down really triggers me and she always avoids conflict due to her anxiety. luckily i got my symptoms more in control now and we have a much healthier relationship now
100% agreed and for a long time I have wished that language around "couples therapy" could be more generalized and less focused on the romantic couple. My parents are aggressor/codependent but my sibling and I are chaser/ stonewaller. All intimate relationships need to have support and language for people in them to use! 💗
In the begining, I was definitely the doer, while my fiance was the tag-along. I was the parentified child and my fiance was the scapegoat, who could never do anything right in his mother's eyes. We latched onto eachother at a young age. Any major changes in our lives were from my doing as he just road along. Once we finally sat down and talked things out, we've actually reversed roles. He is now the nurturer (taking charge and making choices) while I am being taken care of (no longer the parent in my relationships). This reverse of roles strengthened our relationship. We will eventually shift to more even roles, but we're currently comfortable taking on these roles that we were denied.
Super dooper brave and honest of you to come to these realisations...
That is so nice to hear. I hope everything continues in this positive direction! I am learning so much about myself from this wonderful therapist!
Ahh thanks for sharing. Your story is a breath a fresh air and so hopeful. Glad for you both to be on this healing path
I'm also in a doer/tag along relationship, funny how the pattern of parentified child/good for nothing scapegoat fits. We slowly got out of it over the years because I love being taken care of, but the core of the behaviors still permeate when there's a new situation coming.
@@silentladyd Yeah, that's completely understandable. He still looks to me when it comes to major events. Though I don't let him tuck his tail and follow. I'll sit down and talk out the major event, make sure his thoughts are heard before moving forward. Communication is key when both partners have CPTSD. We talk everything out when it comes up, because getting in our own heads will never end well. Just make sure you talk and you both feel heard. 💚
Type 1: oh yes, that's us
Type 2: yes, that's us
Type 3: yes, us
Type 4: yes also us
Type 5: yes, us again
LOL
That’s exactly how I’m feeling. God give us grace 😂😂
I get it ‼️
On the second one and thinking what else were we?
I think I’ve been in 1-4 of the situations and evolved out of them. But I’m currently in #2. Go go go, that’s me .
I was thinking the same thing with regard to my relationship.
This is so eye-opening. My parents are the aggressor/co-dependent type. It amazes me how much they can switch. Being a child to parents like this is so confusing. They had a way of victimizing themselves and pointing their finger at each other saying that one or the other are the toxic one. I’m so upset that my parents put me in that “savior” role as a kid because I had such a hard time with relationships, because I wanted to help people. I thought that that was how I could get love. I had no sense of boundaries or a healthy model of relationships, so I was subjected to some really toxic people that hurt me. But I began to realize that I have a choice to be hurt or not. And I’m still just trying to learn to be more accountable with myself and try not to be like my parents who had no sense of accountability.
Your comment resonated. And I feel it. It was scary the first time, to even try having boundaries, deal with rejection. Then to shore up or tighten, have stronger boundaries. So much pain ive gone through. Goodness, I just keep at it, each step. Tipping my hat to ya.
Same with me. My parents divorced after 25 yrs & both remarried. Mother's husband of 25 yrs died & she found someone new & moved out of state within a few years. Then he died but she won't come back. Felt abandoned twice. Father's 2nd marriage still going (30 yrs) & feel more & more rejection as he ages. Feels like their own kids were last priority, esp with continuing dysfunction & rejection. I too have been in toxic relationships bc I'm the empathic understanding type. Now I'm more educated about NPD etc but doubt I'll find anybody who's capable of a healthy relationship. Never married & men probably afraid I'm too wise. Idk~
Yes! The savior role. My parents always TOLD me that was my role and that I was failing miserably at it.
@@Lexi_Con hugs to you Lexi 💛 I can totally empathize with some of your experience. Keep living securely so the right secure person can come into your life. The wrong ones will shy away, but to your benefit 💝 I know this probably doesn't make it any easier. So proud of you for showing up for yourself and holding healthy boundaries 😊
@@yugenknows740 hugs hugs hugs 💛 I'm so sorry for your experience 😢
I get more out of your videos than in decades of therapy. Thank you Patrick. Gotta say it's hard going and I've been crying since about 2 minutes in. I know I will get there though.
I have noticed that tears when they arise from the grief of mourning and insight, can be information about what we are grieving- even when it’s something we can now change, to grow. They release pain but they also inform us about where it started.
@Angela Mossucco: can you please elaborate a little more on that? Or maybe you know of a website/book where I can find out more info on the subject?
My marriage was this first one! He was horrifically abusive. I realize I had "married my mother"
I married my mother too!
Same, 3 times in a row, after swearing I never would each time. The blindness can be deep.
#2 I'm definitely the doer, I grew up with extreme poverty, homelessness, substance abuse, mental and physical illness the whole 9 yards. My husband and I both have a decent understanding of our childhood trauma and he definitely can fall into the tag along trap. He uses video games as an escape and in all honesty when he doesn't do anything on his days off yet I clean the entire house even with my 40 hour work week part of me doesn't mind. I can't express the level of panic I feel when he does the dishes without me having to ask. It's like someone took away my use or utility and he'll realize I'm not that great afterall. We both try our best to correct our actions and talk openly and honestly about our issues but it's hard when you feel like your only worth in life is the things and services you can provide to others. I'm thankful that he spends a lot of time reminding me that I'm worth more than that for him.
Wow this made me cry I can totally relate 🙁
Thank you, that was very well spoken.
Thank you for sharing this. Very good insight into this couple type.
Yes! And it's like he's taking away my life's purpose! ...... even though I don't believe that, but my mom does...sorta. she loves to clean and organize.
My only way to get attention and or stand out, was to be helpful as possible with chores.
The part where you say you feel like your worth in life is the things and services you can provide to others hits so close to my heart. Thank you for this major realization and insight
Hi Patrick, I recently left an abusive relationship, in part due to watching your videos. Your content helped me to recognise the impact of my childhood trauma, and how it affected me staying in such an unhealthy relationship. Thank you for taking the time to post your content, especially as so many of us can't access therapy.
Wow, i am so happy to read this, because my heart goes to all those nice people in the world, who are able to reflect about themselves and take action.
I am that kid... and also that parent 😢my kids have suffered through my unresolved, ignored trauma, and the repeated cycle of them being traumatized by me... at least my kids know it's a generational problem and that the cycle has lost some power.. and I've told them to not have kids until they are ready and healed to a point they can be the cycle enders.
@@jefframaki it is really hard to function while you are triggered, so most parents push away their pain, put the healing work off and the cycle continues. But doing that work looks just as messy to outsiders and even your kids. At least in my experience. But I am doing my best to break that cycle once and for all!
"Damned if I do, damned if I don't." That hit so close to home it's in my livingroom watching TV.
My god it’s like a breath of fresh air hearing about the doer/ tagalong. That is us 100% but I didn’t know that was a thing. When I tried to explain it in therapy, both my husband and therapist were just kinda shook that I said he is another child for me to manage. And then she kind of “took his side” so to speak, saying I should praise him for listening to podcasts about time management.
The problem with me being a doer is I can’t even really do that. It’s so hard for me that I give up and get overwhelmed with it all. So I feel like I can’t even voice complaints that I’m a “doer”. The laundry and dishes aren’t even done!
Oh well. We have made a ton of progress though. There’s just always work to do.
My mother and father were in this type of relationship, I now know thanks to this channel. I think of the doer as more of an attitude or mindset, rather than literally someone who gets everything done. My mom did the emotional labor, planning, and worrying for absolutely everything in our family system, while my father simply tagged along, heedless of everything she was keeping running. He contributed very little other than a paycheck. Even during their blowups, he was mostly silent. She was beyond frustrated. Then, after 35 years of marriage, he discarded her for someone else. Her sense of betrayal was enormous. Funnily enough, she became a much happier person without him.
I feel the same way about 15 yr marriage
I feel like that therapist is out of line and sounds like they were picking a bias, but that is the interpretation I am making from your reflection on the session. They invalidated what you're going through, only considering your partner in the situation. I suspect that you may need to seek a different therapist, but I am unsure how your partner would handle your decisions and feelings. I'm wishing you the best in this difficult dynamic.
@@lyn9291wow this comment was super helpful to me and made my past super clear. Thank you.
I really appreciate reading the comments from people who identify as the "doer" role since I identify as the tag-along. The pain doers feel is foreign to me so I got a totally new perspective - I am jealous of doers because I would love to be able to do what they do. Instead I feel so inadequate trying to contribute because I always will be less competent than my partner, at everything, no matter how hard I try. He is hyper organized and efficient and I am hopelessly ADHD. As soon as I make a mistake about finances or something he will be frustrated and stop trusting me. I feel like in order for me to be an equal partner I have to be just as incredibly accomplished and competent as him and I know it's impossible. When he criticizes me I feel so worthless like "what even is the point of trying, I'll never be good enough anyway". It is 100 percent childhood trauma for both of us as I grew up with extreme physical and sexual abuse and he was the parentified golden child in an alcoholic home. We love each other deeply but it is so hard sometimes because we seem to get in these cycles where we trigger each other over and over
I really wish you healing. Is couples counseling an option? If both of you are committed to personal growth and self awareness it could be a sweet journey to safety together.
I'm the doer with an ADHD tag-along.
One thing your spouse can work on that will help you is understanding when you make mistakes. It's probably because something hasn't been role modeled for you, and you've had to learn to do it yourself from the ground up. Getting a code phrase to use when you are winging it and are concerned it might go wrong could help.
I've recently accepted I have to explicitly ask for things to be done and check out what he needs in the way of "this is the sequence of things needed" information.
I've been the tag-along as well. Thankfully, my husband is a very patient doer, but yeah. It's painful knowing that you will never be as capable as them (whether that's true or not), and it's painful watching them take on all the stressors and frustrations of YOUR life together, and not understanding why you can't just step up!
Hopefully we can both work towards a more fulfilling life for ourselves and our partners ❤
I am a doer despite adhd! And I suspect my bf is adhd as well so I am trying to reframe me “nagging him to do chores” as me reminding him because I know he’s not going to easily remember what needs to get done, and be patient for him to do it in his own time. I don’t remember this stuff of my own volition either! I have a system of habit app and task apps on my phone I use. I recommend looking into some reminder apps! Most importantly it will take some trial and error to figure out a frequency of chores that is achievable to you and not overwhelming and get your partner on the same page with reasonable expectations. (For example since I work full time and have difficulty making time for chores and my side hustle/hobbies I can only clean my bathroom once a month. But once a month better than not at all) there’s plenty of resources or “life hacks” for getting things done with adhd but shame is a bad motivator. I recommend HowToADHD on youtube and ADHD Alien comics on twitter/insta.
I'm ADHD and was a tag-along. We switched roles when he became disabled. There was this awkward period where I was working 80 hrs a week and responsible for all the financing but couldn't drive myself to work or have a human conversation. My mom and I were aggressor\codependent-scapegoat.
It was hard and mistakes happened. Luckily they weren't large and I found mentorship in-store for most of them instead of verbal abuse. (Absolute shocker.) And when it was verbal abuse? STRAIGHT TO HR. In the wake of a crisis, I was thrown in the deep end. But when I got there, others were willing to help, and I found out that I was incredibly capable in my own right. (Absolute shocker.)
Now I practice incredibly specific "warlock rituals" and a "pirates' code" (otherwise, task hygiene and a routine respectively.) inorder to be "favored by my patron of chaos." (And take Rx) the result is that I am managing the doer role.
I was the doer in a doer/tag along pair for 8 years. Had a kid with the guy. It got worse, because he now had completion for his attention and he screamed in agony to shout out the kid to gain access to my attention. He was also ashamed of his tag along role and thus put us both in complete isolation, as I was not allowed guests, our house wasn't good enough, nothing I did was good enough etc. It eventually became physically and mentally nonviable for me to be the sole doer as my health was failing and I had to choose whether my kid or him gets the attention. I chose the kid and he left. I was for sure enabling his behaviour. I actually believed I needed that guy... That as little as he contributed, it was better than alone. Nope.
I’m a stonewall and a doer. My trauma comes from having to be coparent to my siblings, dealing with a mentally abusive step father and sorta parenting/being best friends with my mother. I had to be the one pulling everyone up out of the depths of hell. So I feel like my worth is tied to doing for others all the time. Also having to be in control to survive. When others get angry (doesn’t even have to be towards me) I shut down. Thats the step dad part. I don’t know how to process the intense emotions I feel. It is almost like a dagger plunging into my heart. So I shut down and become mute. Literally can’t speak. I am getting better but wow it feels good to pinpoint what it is. Thank you Patrick! Your videos are really helping me figure stuff out! ❤
I feel you. Also it’s the first time I read that somebody that shuts down can’t literally talk like me. I mean it’s not just difficult for me, it’s like physically impossible. I would love a video or some words about this topic.
@@Ale-uf7id im not an expert, but i experience this too. Its a heavily dissociative state of being. The explanation i heard is the following: during Events of trauma your brain focuses on surviving. All the energy goes to that task, so non-necessary Tasks get shut down. The Speaking/language center is a rather New and non-crucial part of our brain, so during trauma it can happen that it just shuts down. Then, when you get triggered, you re-live the experience and that brain part again goes into freeze, because you are occupied with literal survival, no speech needed
I can’t remember when I haven’t had shut down mode. It is immobilizing. I can’t force myself out of it. I can’t talk, can’t eat. Usually lasts days. Ugh
"the aggressors work is to really look at how their family of origin set them up to not value or honor intimacy" Wow....that just hit me like a blow to the face. I have been doing childhood trauma work now for a year and this is the first time I have seen this concept and it rings true in the depth of my soul. Thank you for this illumination.
same here, watching this video ive realized im the aggressor in my relationship paired with fearful avoidant attachment due to my emotionally unavailable parents as a child
This was so brilliant. Please explore these dynamics more… You have a gift for explaining complex issues in a empathetic non polarized way.
Love this content.
So much of this sounds familiar. Despite the fact that my parents do love each other in their own very weird way, they've been locked in a bitter, miserable, intractable power struggle of the first type since probably before I was born. Once I got so aggravated with my mom's constant complaining about my dad that I asked her, "So why don't you just leave him??" She thought for a minute & then said, "Well...then he would have won."
Unsurprisingly I've never really wanted to get married & have a family myself.
Sadly, I kind of know that feeling - staying with so out of spite but all you do is hurt yourself to maybe hurt them but more likely give them more chances to keep hurting you. It's absolutely stupid. I hope your mother will realise that too, soon. What a waste of your life otherwise.
I see this is the pattern for my niece's dad now, how his parents were.
I hope you don’t let the trap your parents created for themselves keep you from living your life. Relationships don’t have to be like that especially, If you are aware of your triggers, attachment style, and what kind of people your trauma is attracted to.
Bingo, 54 and never married. I see myself acting like my parents and I say no way in hell will I live that kind of life. I'd rather be single than have the kind of marriage my parents had.
I would ask my mother why she stayed with my dad if she hated him so much and she would say that she's been married to him long enough that she deserves his money. Sure enough he died 10 years ago and she got every penny of his money and she doesn't care of what the mental abuse she put us through staying with him. Now she tries to buy us with his money.
This is the first time I've ever had the relationship dynamic "Doer/Tag along" described to me and man it hits home. I even did a quick search and yeah no one's really talking about this relationship type. My partner is the doer and is pretty frustrated with my tagging along nature. They're wonderful and want to see me rise to challenges and contribute to our life together. It's very validating to have a name for the dilemma ♥️
So that's the kind that seemed to most fit us, but not completely. We both have areas of strength and weakness, and in our place of strength, both of us have a hard time saying no to overwhelming ourselves. And in the area of weakness, we both have a hard time wanting to try and get better.
Here recently our situation has forced us to halve both with each other. He watches the kids and works from home/college, and I got a part time job and function in society.
We both are uncomfortable and growing! When this ends, I think we'll have more respect for each other and hopefully it'll help us foster an intimate relationship again.(right now it's a bit strained with stress)
I've read about an active partner and a passive partner - one partner who essentially runs the whole show, and the other who just passively tags along for the ride. The active partner is attracted to the passive partner because the active partner lives to feel important and in control, but after awhile, the active partner, while still enjoying having the attention and control, starts to resent the passive partner because they just don't make an effort to do anything and don't express opinions, and the passive partner resents the active partners controlling nature and disregard for their input and opinions even though they aren't trying to offer them up.
I was reading about "active women and passive men" because that's a dynamic I see very often, but the gender roles could be reversed in active-passive dynamic, of course). Look that up and you may find more info.
Agree with you about that. I was a tagalong all my teenage years and in my marriage. It originated from being shamed and having very low self-esteem. Since I could never be cool, competent, or correct about anything, I learned to be helpless for myself,but effective for the other person(s).
I'm sad that I never knew about childhood post traumatic stress disorder until last year.
If only I'd understood how and why, my whole life would have been better.
I was the stonewall! I still am sometime. For us, it works better with communication and compromise. I make the effort to verbalize the fact that I need 10 minutes alone to feel safe and then to come back to talk. This time also helps me to listen to myself, which I struggle with, when I’m triggered. And my partner makes the effort to accept this without chasing and worrying (I really love how she learned to handle it and the fact that she was able to explain to me what happens from her side). And I appreciated what Patrick said about the tolerance level, it was well explained. Actually, I need now less than 10 minutes or it happens that I’m ready to talk straight away. It’s like I have experimented that I can feel safe and my feeling can be respected.
Thank you for sharing this. My husband is the stonewall, and I am the chaser. Until recently, he would take that break, but when he would come back, he would act as if everything was fine, and I never got any closure. Eventually he would sense that something wasn’t right and asked me if I was OK or if I was upset and when I brought up the problem it started the cycle again. Seeing your comment gives me hope that the change we’ve recently made where we do come back and try to talk can work. With practice.
Could you please explain what felt Unsafe for you in remaining in the same space so you had to leave for some time? I don't understand that as the chaser.
@@RitaP41 for me it’s the trauma of being yelled at and belittled as a kid when my parent was visibly frustrated and upset. In the moment it just feels very directed and like everything’s your fault and you just feel very isolated almost because you’re at a loss of how to fix the situation when, like he mentioned, you’ve checked out and your limit has been reached. Which is ironic given the circumstances but just how things are brought up triggers those negative feelings and unproductive “conversations” in the past like he was saying with conflict. Just a reaction to the conflict basically. Once it reaches a certain point or you see your partner is so frustrated or upset by something that it’s escalated you check out and it’s very hard to process in the moment at that point.
@@Sarah-ow4ri thanks for explaining ❤️ At that point, what could your partner ideally do to help?
I was in a relationship for 11 years that traversed SO many of these dynamics. Do'er/Tagalong, Aggresor/codependent, Stonewall/Chaser, and did a little of getting the band back together also. It was half him, half me. I wasn't raised around healthy couples, there was an absence of ANY couples in my life combined with what I consider unhealthy cultural beliefs. It was constantly reinforced to me that he was, "a nice person" and implied that I was the problem, especially when I reacted in frustration or anger at his lack of initiative, stonewalling, etc. There's also the common refrain that,"This is how men are".😫 I had to be the one to end it.
I too have seen those exact same reflections in my marriage that also has lasted 11 years. Very interesting how these dynamics are crossing over in similarities between other couples as well. And there is a lot of toxic masculinity involved where everyone expects us to accept it as valid. It’s not. We all have room to grow and develop.
You have incredible powers of observation and communication.
I paid too much attention to the chat, I have to rewatch.
This video made me realize that I always feel like a tag-along in friendships, and I feel guilty about it. I try to do more, but life gets in the way, and I see myself as a failure. I filled a schema therapy checklist, and I found out I have the schema of failure, that whatever I do is wrong, that I can't take care of myself, but I also realized I actually have a fight response to it. I end up doing everything on my own, and, when I look back, I realize the struggles I experience are due to lack of support. But, I still feel like a tag-along. I think this belief about me was re-enforced by both parents in some ways. Perhaps, in friendships, I become crushed by this belief, and the prophecy fulfills itself, or perhaps I end up narrating rifts in friendships as my failure to help people, not being good enough at things that seem to come easily to others.
You’ve just said what I couldn’t put into words for years. Thank you, thank you!! I relate to the tagging along part so much. I’ve always felt so invisible to myself and others, yet, always screaming internally.
Well said
same
Wow this is me. The failure everyday is overwhelming.
@@Ninaoutoftheblue It sure is. We have to see our little accomplishments and recognize the small wins in order to get over this huge hurdle.
Oof. Thank you. I have never seen my marital issues laid out so plainly. We are definitely the doer/tag along. I’ve never seen that dynamic talked about before.
Yes, More please!
I'm glad I viewed this, as it helped me feel like I was healing. As I described it to my partner, I respond to "ghosts" sometimes. I let him know I hadn't been through the best childhood, so that sometimes when I get upset, even if what he said caused a reaction to happen, I reassure him that the scale of the reaction isn't his fault. It's just me talking to ghosts. :)
this spoke to me
@@kontrapunktalna I hope this explanation helps ❤️
this happens to me a lot. thank you for putting it so eloquently...
@@MsAleytys Very glad to help love. Cheers to being aware, to love, and to our healing ❤️
My cupcake story with an Absorber: During the 2008 recession, I decided to prepare for layoff at my job and open a consignment store. Ex gradually became supportive, then so helpful with IT skills and helped with set up. But at Grand Opening, I came to find that all of my ex's friends were congratulating HER as if she opened the store and so glad that I was there to support...at end of party, she insisted all of her friend's should take the food and cupcakes that I BOUGHT! Wow!
I would love an in depth video for exercises on the doer/tag along relationship. This is exactly what my current partner feels like and I’m beginning to reach my end of being a doer. I think some exercises would be nice for me to do individually and maybe some as a couple to see if it’s repairable or not. Great video Patrick, thank you ❤️
Seconding this!
I’m not a couple’s counselor or a regular counselor, but I feel like practicing acknowledging when your partner is trying/having patience and taking time to deal with the feelings it brings up.
Letting them know that you value when they contribute, and then having patience/checking yourself when they do. (I know that is very difficult) Even small ways so they gain confidence in contributing.
I married my father. He was indifferent, apathetic, but the husband could also be physically abusive. I refused to play the role of my mother; sufficed to say been divorced over thirty years. If loving him was wrong, thank God I learned to move on.
As always, you organized and illuminated so much relational chaos. Thank you for this webinar, Patrick.
Patrick, you have been an absolute well of information for me. If you could please please do a video on relationships with partners in denial about the connection to their own childhood? For example, a partner who says "I already did my work and put that to rest" when in actuality, they're still ruled by their own trauma responses..I hope this lands. Thank you so much for your content!!
That would be a very interesting video topic indeed.
I've observed a few of these relationships while growing up... I was personally involved in a couple of these relationships as well..now, at this stage of my healing, I don't date anyone who isn't doing inner work on themselves...this was a great description of these types of relationships and for healing tips,
video.
Thank you!
Right! My ex was very abusive with drug and alcohol addiction. Has never ONCE attempted to get therapy even though he has promised over and over. He doesn’t want to hear that he has a problem and he is a narcissist so he would just lie to be validated anyway I suppose.
Our traumes aren't an excuse to take ownership of our own issues. Sadly, most of us get the wake up call only when we hit rock bottom.
Not me watching this purely out of interest and then getting called out 😭
Might bring this video to my next therapy session!
Great info not only for romantic couples, but friendships. Getting some perspective on why I found myself (a slightly absorbent codependent) miserable in a couple of enmeshed friendships, and how I could’ve better handled some situations. Thank you, Patrick.
Lol how serendipitous for this to show up now…
I love that word! And I love it that we have a community that sympathizes with what prompted you to say it…..
Off topic, but my cat is named Serendipity.
I love this video- my favorite that you’ve ever done!
I love that you specially steer people AWAY from couples therapy at first. People who are codependent sometimes have this fantasy that couples therapy can fix anything. I think it’s a good litmus test of a relationship, if both people are willing to do their own separate work on their childhoods.
This!
My husband and I share complex trauma. But we built our relationship up for over a year and then ditched the ceremony and eloped to the county courthouse. I’m grateful to have a spouse who understands my ptsd, as I can understand his. It made us much more patient. 21 years together in February’24. Our 19th anniversary was in August’23. I still appreciate this video as it absolutely applied to my former serious relationship. Hence, why he’s my EX fiancé.
This hits home so much for me. I see so much of this in myself and also in the people that I have been with. Also, it seems like I attract people with childhood trauma and vice versa. Almost like I’m extremely attracted to them but somehow, I don’t attract “normal” people. All of this makes a lot of sense and it leaves a lot of breadcrumbs to work on. But heck, it’s also exhausting… it feels like it’s too much and maybe it’s better to be single forever…
Hardcore #2 doer/tag-along. I was a big-time tag-along and felt almost blind-sided and victimized by how unhappy my doer boyfriend was. We're still together, but on a break, taking time to reflect in hopes of making the relationship healthier. We both have childhood trauma and grew up in different countries :')
Doer/tag was the most exhausting and frustrating relationship for me. Even though its over, its nice to be able to look back at my own wrongdoings in the relationship and work on myself for the future
Jeeeeez wow holy sh*t. Just explaining my relationships like word for word on this video. I'm crying and mind exploding. 😭🤯
I have been told I am always angry. What they see is a mean person. In reality, I am a hurt person who puts up walls and defenses. I staunchly defend myself because no one defended me as a child.
Hope you get a good therapist and get the wounds of neglect and abuse out of you
I was the unconscious 'doer' in the #2 Doer/ Tag Along. I'm a product of an alcoholic home my husband from an absurd controlling single mother upbringing. It took a while but once our child was born the one thing we both KNEW was that we did not want our child to grow up in the emotional environment we at that time. With mindful conversations and both of us holding ourselves accountable for our words and action plus therapy, we were [and continue] to make great progress. More than anything I want my child to have healthy relationships and experiences, I want them to have the 'normal' I cried and longed for during my chaotic childhood.
Kudos to you and your spouse BETH!!
Thank you for this video. So much self help info focuses on why you should leave a dysfunctioning relationship and far too little about how to make it functional.
Apprehensively awaiting this one. 😬💚🧑🤝🧑
I'm watching my 25 year old son caught in unhealed trauma triggers. It is so hard to watch not knowing how to help or if I even should try. It is so painful to watch in silence as trauma, fear, grief, and low self esteem run his life.
This is the best most helpful video I’ve ever come across so far! I’m 67.
I’m going to listen to this over and over. There’s tons of help here in this video!
Thank you SO very much for making such content available!
You are one in a billion!😊👍
Leaving the doer/tag-along relationship was so hard but soooo needed.
Patrick is genius at noticing, explaining, and presenting. Gift to us all. Anyway - I want to add that I saw patterns emerge in myself and my clients in specific DOMAINS - money, sex, housework, planning, socializing and more. I also noticed that you can SEE some patterns in how the house is decorated, what the calendar looks like, the visa statement...I am personally a money tag-along because money freaks me out, and the doer when it comes to planning. I always explained it as divided domains, but there is more to it I now realize when I look at the origin of the behavior as unconscious unresolved issues. I now think there is a way to divide labor but no one should have eyes shut and hands off the wheel even with divided domains.
Getting the band back together couple is such a hilarious name. This entire video really screamed at me bffr 😂 thank you for the help
OMG...right on time for Halloween!
I was in a doer and tagalong relationship for 2.5 years. You've hit the nail on the head. I didn't realize he may have had childhood trauma until now. But I can see it, he definitely was babied by his mother. He was the favorite and lived with her until he was 25. She still washed his clothes and took care of his son more than he did. I left him because I refused to be a parent to him, his son and my daughter. I felt like a slave, and I wanted to be treated as an equal. I was so relieved once we broke up, despite being technically homeless. I was much better off parenting my daughter alone than having to parent all 3 of them. He never cleaned, or cooked or anything. He always expected praise because he "kept the kids alive today". Literally he'd say that to me and expect me to say "great job" 🙄 It took a coworker pointing out to me that I did everything for our family, and I worked full time with regular overtime. He barely did anything and only worked about 20 hours a week, for me to realize the imbalance. I requested him to help more and do things like take out the trash when it was full. But that was too much for him to do. Truthfully, I'm not sure how he and his son lived in that house after I left. As far I know he isn't or wasn't at the time capable of doing anything for himself much less a 4 year old.
My mother was in a "getting the band back together" relationship for 7 years. They were off and on. My mother had a restraining order put on him. Then ignored it. Then put him jail. Then they got back together. She got with her current husband. Then 8 months later she got married and she cheated with the first guy. Off and on for years. My step dad and my mother have been separated for almost 8 years now but they're still married. 🤷♀️
I think my mother and second step dad were the first set. The aggressor (my mother, no doubt) and codependent. He usually just went along with what she said or did and didn't protect us at all. She was very physically and emotionally abusive. She manipulated everyone, even him.
Lots of drug abuse with them too. My mother has a history of drug abuse before I was even born. But my step dad didn't until after they got married.
A 4yr old was left behind ?!
@@debbiedobrzenski7005 he was left with his father. He's not mine. Just like I took my daughter, she's not his.
@@mamaofthree8585 there is still a form of responsibility when you saw that he was not capable of taking care
Like contacting the authorities because of it
If you did that, than please ignore
I feel like I had a relatively healthy upbringing and don’t feel like I have any significant childhood trauma but my husband (together 28 years/married 20) is definitely the aggressor and I have fallen into the codependent trauma bonded role. Not understanding that what was happening was abuse and now that I have finally realized it I feel so traumatized I can hardly function. My children keep me sane and out of depression, but I also (now that I know what I know) am seeing the signs of childhood trauma in both of them and I’m crushed that I stayed in this relationship for so long and dragged them along with me instead of protecting them. It’s been such a cycle of abuse, hoovering, promises to change and back again. All verbal, emotional psychological abusive behavior and me becoming eventually with time into a reactive abuser. If I don’t believe I have any childhood trauma to have entrapped myself into this type of relationship, how could I have allowed it to happen?
There is nearly no chance that you have not adapted any negative core-beliefs as a child. Your parents can be "good" parents and still not have met your needs. Sometimes it is as simple as being in childcare to early (before age 2) or having had a horrible time at school and no support from your parents. The guy I used to date also said to me that his parents are great, still in love and that everything was fine in his childhood. Turns out, he has very limited memories of his childhood (people that don't remember much of their childhood had to emotionally shut themselves off because their needs weren't met) and no one in his family talks about feelings and emotions. He was considered the "sensitive" child, so his parents were basically overwhelmed and couldn't support him. His parents are also Hippies, so he had hardly any boundaries and was therefore neglected on another level. He believes that he can only survive in this world by being independent and by being on his own. Other people's emotions in a relationship flood him, so he stonewalls, shuts himself out and is a tagalong to have the least amount of conflict.... And he has NO IDEA. The answer to your question: You would not have stayed if one of your negative core-beliefs wouldn't have been triggered. The key is to identify and figure out WHAT it is and where it comes from.
Wow. I am a chaser. My dad died when I was 5 but I wasn’t told how, when I was 12 I found his suicide note and it definitely “changed everything”, with a traumatized and distant mother. Mind blown. This video really resonates. Thank you.
That's Intense
Wow! This is what we needed!
My husband and I have been together for 21 years and have 4 kids. We both came from abusive families. What I got from this video is that we have both been all of them at different times over the years! Excluding the last couples dynamic. We have never broken up, never cheated, and always been able to work it out because we genuinely love each other. That's taken MOUNDS of effort from both of us!
We are now in the next phase in our relationship where CPTSD is bubbling up and more annoying to deal with, on both ends, because we can see each others patterns.
I'm so glad your videos came into my feed! We definitely need to sign up for your healing group. Just need to make it work financially and we are jumping on board!
We are together till death do us part. Seriously, I love that man so dang much. ❤ and he loves me right back 😍
Patrick, this is such a GREAT video! I wish that everybody was taught this information in school because all I see *everywhere* are people (including myself) unconsciously reacting to the unresolved trauma in their lives! Only now can I see that my lack of insight about my traumas kept me LOCKED in an aggressor/codependent marriage. We were together for 25 years, but it really should have ended within the first 2 years ( and only lasted so long because I was shaped to be really excellent at smoothing and placating aggressors😢).
I am definitely the flip side where my partner is anxious. This helped me understand my coping mechanisms and even though I could brainwash myself into thinking it’s justified to be cruel, it isn’t. I took years of therapy, medication and change. I had to learn that partnership *should* feel safe and that I’m worthy of it. I am engaged, and we are working constantly but never once became mean, screamed or let the other pass the others boundaries. It’s possible to change, I was reluctant because when I realized my problems I just thought “I’m awful what’s the point I’m unloveable” and my partner used to chase me, which kept the cycle to repeat. Healing is self love, and when you feel worthless you lose your will. The guilt is all consuming, but healing my childhood trauma was the root. I am worthy of love, and am a good partner. Healing is the hardest thing to do but my god beyond worth it. I began living.
My husband once told me that the person who cares the least has the most control. My kids’ pediatrician told me upon meeting my husband that I really had four kids not three. He also talks to his family all about what goes on in our family and cannot make a decision without their in put. I’m standing right there with my thoughts, but those are not relevant.
Feel ya on this one.
The person that cares the least has the most control. That's sad, immature and cruel imo. Work on YOU 💜 so you are equipped to make healthy informed boundaries with him and the in-laws.
Dump him
The doer and the tagalong describes my husband and I perfectly until very recently when I suffered a series of difficult experiences, which seem to have paralyzed me. I thought I had overcome my childhood trauma/molestation/abuse. But now twenty some years after marriage, taking on far more than I could handle including too much at work, caring for my dying father, our own children, my pregnant sister and her children, death of my father, reoccurrence of seizures, loss of job, and then discovering my husband reoccurring infidelity… it all just feels like it has broken me. The courage, strength, and determination that got me through earlier just isn’t there anymore. I worked so hard to get where I am today and now it simply just feels pointless.
I am so sorry to hear that. Unfortunately that sounds like the series of the past 25 years of my life and then I got a tick related illness. The tick thing is much better but my marriage didn't survive because I was fed up with his stonewalling . I use to be able, to be wonder woman for years and now I feel so broken and defeated I can barely manage to make my bed.
I bid you good luck .
That is so much to carry while not having time to care for yourself. This sounds like burn out. I wish you time for rest.
Thank you so much for this info. It can be so hard to know what healthy relationships are supposed to be when you come from trauma.
My grandparents played a big role in the family system and I grew up as if I have had 4 parents. Feels tough to untangle and this helps immensely. I've been the golden child then also a scapegoat and infantilized and parentified at the same time too. I could identify both me and my caregivers in 3 roles at once! I've been mostly the codependent, tag along and absorber in relationships. Increadibly helpful. Tied a lot of stuff together for me rn. Another huge part of the mozaic comes into place. Thank you!!
Did we live the same life??
@@sereneholsclaw wow, really? I've never seen anyone talk about a similar story to mine :o
@@barostakuk1058 same here! Although my grandpa wasn't in the picture but my grandma was heavily involved in my upbringing, other than that I totally relate to the different roles you also mentioned, in childhood as well as now!
Not my grandparents, but both of my stepparents were narcissistic and I saw all of these Dynamics growing up too..
Thank you so much for such a clear description of the doer/tag along. My life! It’s a ridiculous situation. My parents were the same. I’m working to move beyond this… 😊
Shared your videos with my therapist and he loved them now too ❤
As a woman on the life long journey in recovery and healing i just want to say thank you Patrick so very much for all of your work!!
Much love and God bless!!
✨🙏😇✌️💖🕯️✨
It’s interesting to hear this perspective. I’ve never thought or that form of “aggression “ as just that. I’ve found that in my last relationship, I was certainly that role because I was trying to get them to meet me half way and explain their actions. I would explain why I would act (react) in a way based on how they’re actions made me feel (or how I felt because of their actions), and I just wanted to know why they treated me the way they did.
They never could. All they could say was that they would ignore me because of how I react, but I know better. My reactions didn’t come from nothing 🙄
And round and round we went
It’s crazy listening to this and, it not so much modeling any romantic relationships I’ve had but each of the examples mirrors many of my platonic relationships. With my trauma I can be different with different people so I wear so many hats and it’s surprising how much these examples speak to me.
Thank you Patrick!!! You spell out "ABUSE" so clearly!! I'm 64 and recently started dating a man who is real controlling. I'm a secure happy, healthy woman who has done the hard work to be secure. So after 4 months of dating I see clearly this man is toxic & emotionally unhealthy & immature. Don't want to change him but can't continue to accept his toxic trauma bonding ways. It's so sad. 🙁
I just love your videos. You really break it down and make it easy to understand. Every time I watch a video I think “that explains it.” Lol
My last romantic relationship before meeting my wife was very much the aggressor/codependent dynamic. All the ones before were also unhealthy in different ways. Growing up, mother's wants/needs/feelings where all that mattered and dad avoided conflict with her by drinking beer and playing golf, so it's not hard to see where I got messed up ideas about what love looks like. Luckily, I got to a point where I'd matured and done enough work on myself that I stopped recreating those patterns.
We're getting the band back together (but we all hated it the first, second, third, and fourth time around, so this time it'll be different!).
I started down the path of the Aggressor with my ex, but I also acted out the Stonewall dynamic a lot. We could talk about our traumas to an extent, so it was easy to mistake our dysfunction for progress because we were stuck between both. We tried a poly relationship and he eventually replaced me with someone else and I left when I realized it. I tried fighting my feelings of inadequacy and resisted the urge to act out because I believed I was solving my issues, but didn't know how to do that until my family finally started addressing their issues out in the open, finally helping me realize that I wasn't delusional as a child.
My parents became the Absorber/Enabler. They couldn't know how aware I was that something felt wrong. I was too young to know it was dysfunctional, and eventually forgot how I started my own dysfunction. I learned how to bury my needs to play small and never questioned how broken that was, because I could see they were aware that something was wrong and simply followed along.
All my adult relationships have been thirty years of trauma bonds. Nobody chose my actions for me, and I work through this in therapy. I am acutely aware of how someone can fall blindly into toxic habits.
loved this . saw myself and others . let love rule. thanks.
Wow this is massively helpful, I had a couple of lightbulb moments. I think it would be nice to have a more in-depth video on how to keep the door closed after breakups, it's so difficult when the inner child has so much love and selective memory for people from the past. Maybe journaling about the bad stuff could be helpful? Like keeping a list of why they were not good for us. As always, thank you so much for the amazing content!
I would like to see this content as well! My love doesn't really end for people no matter what they do once I'm in the thick of their lives. Setting boundaries and sticking to them feels like some huge ideological betrayal of my values or heart.
@@themidnightcleric you spoke my mind
This is the first time I've heard anyone articulate the tag along situation...I have literally called this poor man the puppy my daughter brought me. They are 100 percent in this dynamic, I have pushed and given grace without actually knowing what is happening, but this helps so much. They are pregnant now so it's VERY MUCH TIME to figure out what's going on and how to help❤❤❤
This video made me cry, helping immensely in my healing and grieving process. Honest and validating. Thank you, Patrick ❤️
Omg when you said the aggressor was raised to not value intimacy, my jaw dropped because that’s exactly why I broke up with my boyfriend. I loved him more than I loved any man, but he was the “aggressor” in the relationship, and his lack of intimacy is the one thing I couldn’t get past. I craved it so badly and he was unable to give it. You nailed this video! Thank you ❤️
Geez…I see parts of myself in all of these types to some extent. I haven’t been in a #5 situation but there certainly can be the temptation to contact an ex which can be hard to resist. I also recently realized I repeat the same unhealthy cycle when it comes to relationships so I’m working on trying to stop this from getting caught up in it again.
Great video!
I hear ya my ex husband and I even got married twice 😂 😭
My parents are a aggressor/codependent couple, and I'm in a 5years of marraige relationship which is also a trauma based relationship, researching to figure it out.... Thanks for all these information, I always watch your videos on UA-cam, on childhood trauma, I read your journals, whenever I feel puzzled, overwhelmed or unheard.. these really help me a lot.... I also share all these info with some of my friends, who are facing kind of same....
AN ABSOLUTE BANGER SIR THANK YOU ((literally forwarding to all my friends))
You are so awesome of a human being!!! Gratitude 🙏 for your videos!!!!
OMG Patrick no.5 had me 😭😭😭
My ex and I have just ended this relationship after 6 years. It was exhausting and exhilarating at the same time. Getting back together was falling in love all over again and again. Breaking up was reinforcing my abandonment wounds over and over. I couldn't understand why it kept happening. Now I understand it so much better. Thank you 🙌
We both have so much work to do separately. And possibly someday we can see if we are capable of being in a healthy relationship together.
My recent ex husband and I have split and gotten back together several times and we have married one another twice. It's crazy . He was stonewaller and I was chaser.
Wow! "Using mood as a weapon" an a ha moment! Grouchy, bad mood is a tactic?
Ouch! Deflect walk away only way
Can you make a video about limited family systems (child unparented around basic things in life)?
Yes
I was the enabler, because I was desperate for emotional connection, due to social neglect growing up. I’ve worked really hard over the years at not throwing myself at people like that, anymore.
My parents set the example of being the aggressor/codependent relationship, while being victims of growing up in dysfunctional homes themselves, though my maternal grandparents were more the example of the tag along example. My mother got mixed messages from her parents as a kid, while my dad retreated into fantasy and bad-timing humor to escape the constant fighting at home, with our paternal grandfather turning to alcohol to numb it all out. But my parents actually did worse than their parents, because at least their respective parents didn't resort to physical violence to control the other, like our mother did to our dad, and, sad thing is, they're still married, because they wouldn't know what to do otherwise. They really should've done us a favor and divorced before we kids came along, because they ended up dragging us along into their sorry situation. This is why divorce exists. It was no treat being a child growing up in a scary house of constant chaos, hearing our parents call each other all of these ugly words and the crazy accusations. It's not always kind to stay together "for the kids," and they were too busy screaming at each other to focus on us kids unless it was to punish us, anyway. They got married for the wrong reasons, and even tried couples therapy, but absolutely nothing could be fixed, and it's infuriating how they had almost 10 years to get divorced before we were born, but they decided that a baby can somehow shoulder the burden and fix their adult problems for them.
Obviously, I couldn't. Nor did I care, since my home situation affected my behavior and performance at school, so I had my own problems to worry about. Then there were additional fights at home between my parents over who was responsible for how "bad" I turned out, so I felt horrible all the time. Also, no matter how badly he got treated and hated her for it, my dad would still enable our mother due to "peace at any price," even though a lot of the time it came with the price of invalidating us kids. My sister and I were additionally pitted against one another as rivals growing up, made much worse due to our closeness in age, and, growing up witnessing how our parents "talked" to each other, we fought like a urinals, which only caused more explosions at home behind closed doors.
No surprise to admit that both my sister and I can't tell the difference between a basic kind gesture vs love, and that we've also struggled our whole lives in aggressor/codependent relationships ourselves, with us being the albeit unintentional aggressors with rules and preferences for everything. I think we're worse than our parents, too, because I haven't noticed that we also tend to stonewall at times in addition to that. This is one of the reasons why I don't want to get married and chose, at a very early age, to never have children of my own.
I’ve found it most helpful to focus on my own life and goals as well as to do clearing work on my chakras to release past programming.
Amazing content! Sadly so much resonated but after years of really uncovering my own trauma and role in relationships I’m much healthier and more clear. This is outstanding content! You never stop learning, healing or growing so this is pertinent no matter where you are in your journey. Thank you so very much☺️❤️🙏