How to choose the correct sizing die - Understanding the differences in sizing dies
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2024
- In this video we discus how to choose the correct sizing doe for your application. We cover standard full length dies, Small Base Dies, Neck only dies, full length bushing dies, bushing pump dies, and Body Only Dies. We review what each doe does and discuss the applications for each die type.
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Man. I know this video is the years old and you won't ever see it, but i gotta say it. You are prolific. I'm not sure that there's is a single repeating related question that you haven't addressed or touched on in some way. I truly hope that all of your content is archived somewhere besides just UA-cam. It would be a shame for it all to be lost when UA-cam goes full tilt.
Thank you sir. It is appreciated
Great explanation of sizing dies.
My take on small base dies is to use one *only* if you must. They change the size of the brass case more than regular dies do. Only cases from an oversized chamber (cough… machine gun) should need to be pushed back this far. Some M1A/M14 shooters insist on small base dies but I have never needed to use one in either of 2 rifles of that type.
I like your "who am I to tell you to change your resizing method" philosophy. There was a time where I thought a person was ignorant to FL size. Then I got tired putting a lot of stress on my action which led to hardware issues. I really am open to the expander method. It makes a lot of sense to me. I will be giving it some more consideration next year. You really have an informative and educational channel and I am enjoying it!
I also believed neck sizing was superior but this is an old artifact from bench shooting from decades past. Today bench shooting is all full length and many only use new brass. Neck sizing is today only useful for trying for case life but even then the neck is the first thing to fail.
I believe your absolutely correct. I’m researching into metallic reloading. I reload shot shells mostly 12 gauge. I’ve learned that I have to customize loads for each gun and each shooter. That’s where my wife does not understand why I’m always ordering different items. Over the years I’ve finally gotten together all the tools and equipment to perfect 12 gauge to custom standards and very consistent performance. My chrono results where so consistent Today. If it works? Stick with it.
I’ve watched countless videos to understand the neck tension changes with sizing and all but this finally made it clear to understand how the die sizes the brass. THANK YOU!
Great info! For 6.5 Creedmoor, I use the Lee Ultimate dies and have had great results using the collet die for reloading for my RPR. For me, it was the switch to Lapua brass that made a big difference with SD numbers.
Tried different dies went back to lee. Brought the best results and is easy on the brass.
You do a very thorough job and will save new reloaders a lot of aggravation and money by helping them select the correct die for their application, thank you. Also, concentricity is really not often discussed in reloading videos as much as it should. Having a concentric round becomes increasingly relevant to accuracy the further the distance you shoot, why not try to make your ammo straight regardless of distance? I think a lot of people who may have been reloading for quite a while are actually surprised and perhaps a bit horrified when the put some of their reloaded ammunition on a concentricity gauge for the first time. I stopped using an expander ball and started using a mandrel for final case neck expansion a long time ago, what a difference not yanking up on the neck with that expander ball makes.
Thank you and Amen.
5 minutes in and this is a great video already!
I really appreciate you putting these videos together. There are a lot of lessons you share which come with experience. Good stuff!
Glad you like them!
The collet dies are as good as the mandrel idea and much easier to do when set up. Having said that one must be sure that there are no burrs on the outside of the neck when done and not to over crimp as it will damage the case by crushing. I do like neck sizing when only using ammunition for a specific rifle. One has to always full-length size if you expect to be able to shoot out of multiple rifles. I have two 6.5 Creedmoor's and if I don't keep track of my cases need to full length size for them. I primarily shoot bolt guns and reload for sub-MOA hunting ammunition.
Well done on a very thorough and detailed explanation on the workings of different reloading dies and what each is best used for and why .
Like yiu have shown us. The difference between sizing kinds, makes a new load. It all works. Some are easier for you
Thanks..Great Info for new reloaders, myself included
This channel's a keeper
Honestly don’t understand why people lose their minds on this subject and on others in reloading. which, I’m not bring up. It’s whatever the shooters preference is and what works for them. I haven’t seen a lot of consistent results in what works on every single case out there. One case likes full length and the other likes neck and the third small base. One gun likes one bullet and another does great with the exact opposite.
For a minute there, what with the flailing arm, I felt like I watching Johnny's Reloading Bench!
I miss Johnny's reloading bench.
Where has he been? Love that channel!
@@subshooting8414 0o
@@subshooting8414 hes back
The thing to remember with bushing dies is, if you're using common brass you should use the decapping rod with the expander ball on it. Then the real advantage is, once you find the proper size bushing, your brass working is kept to a minimum. Bushing dies shine with quality brass like Lapua or brass that has been neck-turned. Probably the most cost efficient route to take is to sort your brass by neck thickness variances. The most even batch of cases usually work fine in a standard size die with an expander ball. Forster FL dies feature a raised expander ball to help keep the necks straight. RCBS and any die with a fully threaded decapping rod will allow the ball to be raised for more concentric necks.
Do the 21st Century expanders fit in the Sinclair die?
Collet dies are the best, I swear by them for precision reloading my bolt actions!
You should make a vid on how you determine what neck tension you prefer?
I’m a big fan of the custom honed Forster full-length conventional “Benchrest” die (used without expander spindle) as you mentioned at the end. I use this die in combination with a separate mandrel die to fine tune my necks. I also find it helpful to turn all my necks to a consistent thickness and I anneal every time. Thanks for all your great work!
Full length sizing=accuracy. Simple as that. Ask any pro long range shooter.
Bullshit! One thing that you can count on for sure is ... everyone has their
secrets to be competitive and that's just the way it is Steve.
@@UnCoolDad I watched the video, one guy spilled the beans. He said "full length
2 thousands" What he is really talking about is bumping the shoulder back
2 thousandths, that is NOT a full length resize. Can't stand Cortina he thinks he
is hot shit and pissed off the reloading community.
@@UnCoolDad I would bet that all of them bump the shoulder around .002
Full length resizing can VARY depending on the amount of cam over you
apply (if any). Note: Cam over will stress the press. Focus on neck tension,
it has more influence on accuracy than body sizing.
No it’s consist repeatable reloading not full size
I think Hornady make the best pistol dies, especially 357 Sig as they’re the only company I’m aware of with lubeless dies. Their TiNi are great. I wish someone made a TiNi or carbide die for 223 Rem/5.56mm
I too walk the path of 357 sig...just getting into this though. I am a complete noob.
Steve Arnett: Don’t worry the learning curve isn’t too steep. I like and mostly use accurate powders when reloading 357 Sig with AA2 my go to for range ammo as it’s the cheapest and depending on the loadings, AA5, AA7, or AA9 for defensive loads as I’m looking for performance with consistent accuracy more important than raw velocity. I’ve worked up loads for bullet weights from 60 grain to 158 grain. 357 Sig like 357 Magnum offers good variety and performance though unlike 357 Mag 357 Sigs’s ability to accept both 0.355” (9mm) bullets as well as sized 0.357” buckets gives a lot more bullet choices as 0355” bullets work from 380 ACP through 9x19mm to 357 Sig loading. Take it slow and start out low working up your loads. I chronograph my loads which helps a lot to know where you are.
i dont know about necked cases but rcbs makes carbide pistol dies that you dont need lube for. i dont have anything like 357 sig or 5.7 so i never really looked into it
@@wades623: Carbide can work well for straight cases but they aren’t made for necked cases, at least I’m it aware of them, that was why I was so happy when Hornady came out with their TiNi dies which work for 357 Sig without lube. I’d love to see a 223 Rem/5.56x45mm die that’s TiNi because the lube requirement is the biggest pain of sizing 223/5.56x45mm.
Great info and thx for your great work and for sharing to us out there - greetings from Iceland :)
I just started reloading, bought a Rock Chucker Supreme, I’m starting with 300 blackout, got the Lee 3 die set. Thanks for the info!!!
Thats the die set I started with. Hope your having fun. I’ve saved a bunch of money reloading for 300bo
Jeff Huntley thank you sir!!! I also spent a bit extra and got the L.E. Wilson case trimmer so I could be accurate. I’m very excited, still need a couple things and I’m building a big bench ( 6 ft x 3 ft and 36 inches tall)
Jeff Huntley I bought the Rock Chucker on its own bc I was actually gifted a RCBS RS5 kit, an awesome starters kit but I wanted a heartier press, this Rock Chucker Supreme is a beast
Justin Watson. Yup. Those rock chuckers are rugged. A big bench is nice. I always seem to run out of space
Jeff Huntley I found a really really cool solution for the bench, northern tool has this kit of sorts, it comes with the four corner legs ( hard polymer) but you provide the lumber ( 2x4s and some kind of plywood) so I chose that size. I’m single and own a house so I have room lol
As usual, a well of great information. A suggestion in your video editing; switch to a screenshot of yourself when you are not showing a product or procedure. You may be camera shy but it will keep your audience's attention. I know it is more editing 😡. Just my 2 cents from a former instructor.🤗
For my 6.5 PRC I have been using a Redding type S die followed by a mandrel die. This was mostly because I don’t have another FL sizing die for 6.5 PRC. Being that I don’t neck turn, I imagine resizing on the ID of my brass neck will give me more repeatability than resizing on the OD of my brass neck.
Very informative. Thanks for your input.
Geat breakdown brother!!!
Very good summary. Thank you.
How long have u been doing this? Your videos r my bible brotha!!!!!,!,
Great job! Thank you!
Have you compared your current sizing method to the Lee Collet Die for concentricity? It would be interesting to see how the expander mandrel results compare to the LCD.
I use both Lee collet and separate expander mandrels. the Lee collet definitely helps true up neck concentricity, and neck trimming bulge, caused by the Hornady chamfering tool that was never sharpened correctly and pushes metal instead of cutting it. The Lee collet and/or Using a expander mandrel pushed down from the top through the sized neck, can pretty much eliminate case stretch caused by pulling a expander ball through the sized neck. Which is the main source of the case stretching, and not the BS religious belief always repeated that the angle of the case shoulder controls case stretching. A expanding mandrel pushes the ripple, bulges, and non concentricity to the out side of the neck. the lee collet is not perfect but it squeezes the neck against the decapping pin and does help squeeze the neck back to shape.
Good video and information thanks for sharing. I have Hornady and Lee dies. Thinking about getting some Redding.
Awesome - THX!
Great informative video, thanks
The bushing sizing dies are what you really want to use for very tight tolerance custom rifles where there is a need for neck turning. Not something I would mess with for any rifle with a SAAMI spec chamber.
We may not all wear the same size pants but we all put our pants on one leg at a time.
Using an expansion mandrel to set neck tension and straighten the neck MOST accurately makes sense to me if the cartridge body is held tight in a die, and the mandrel is pushed in concentric with the body die. Not sure how it is really done though, do you have a video on this? My other thought is that to get the best performance out of a bushing die, one must first turn the neck smooth to ensure a consistent neck thickness. Question for you: Do you know how to measure the diameter of the free bore in a chamber? I would think that chambering a round into a tight free bore would force concentricity to an acceptable level. Your thoughts?
I would focus on using a bushing die just because pulling that ball through the neck is a pain sometimes.
RCBS black box is the AR series. Not sure about lever action with that set
Been reloading 5.7x28mm for awhile. Started with a small base and could only reload once. It had to move to much brass. Got a group D set and it does everything. Now I need to find out if sizing down the D with the small base increases proformance. It just seems the first small base reload feels way better. It may be that multiple shoulder movement makes it feel that way. Also there is no trim after the first sizing. Got aways to go to know it inside and out.
About 15 years ago I got into reloading. I found RCBS gear being sold privately, and got a JR3 press, 5-0-5 scale, uniflow powder throw, and some reloading dies (25-06, 270, 308Win, 30-06, 300 Win Mag). There was also a bunch of case prep tools and black-powder accessories. After learning how to use the press properly I made tons of 308Win for my rifle. I also made 30-06 for the wife's dad. BUT, I have had so much trouble with the RCBS dies that I have stopped them, and replacing with Lee Precision. Cases stuck, and different OAL for each completed round in whatever caliber when seating bullets drives me nuts. Absolutely no issues with the Lee dies.
I have Redding RCBS Hornady Dillion Lee die sets for different cartridges. overall quality rating I would give them are in the order listed. Some Manufacturers have certain advantages over overs. The Lee seating dies are last place for design and quality. Lee carbide pistol sizing dies are best design on the market.
I needed to use a small base die for my Browning BLR in 308. Cases would not chamber completely if I used a standard RCBS FL die
You can partially full length body size if you back off the die from hard contact with the shell holder. A little experimenting will tell you if this technique will allow proper functioning without complete full length sizing. A lot depends on the precision of the chamber. I can get this to work in some bolt action chambers with little or no case lube. On the other hand, when I reloaded for a Browning lever action 308, I had to use a small base sizer. When I shot bench rest we all neck sized only with a bushing die, but those were very precise chambers with no measurable eccentricity. Back in the 50's my father and his best friend had consecutive serial number Model 70's with chambers that were so closely matched that they could interchange hot loaded neck sized brass between the 2 guns.
i had trouble with the lee resizer stem coming out of the die when pulling the ball through the neck unless i absolutely crank down the collet.
What are your thoughts on the Redding Body Die + Lee Collet Die combination? The average runout I'll get is 0.0005" and the average higher runout at 0.001". I've been trying it for a little while now and the results are good, but honestly I think I've stretched the limit of my TC Compass. The group sizes at 100yds with this combination and the Forester FL Die seems similar (although, I'll need to test this).
Do I need to run the brass through a full-length die than a small length die?
neck sizing should only be done after youve verified the brass is fully fire formed. This generally takes 2-3 firings of brand-new brass. After it's fully fire formed, then you full-length size it and then only bumping the shoulder about 0.002." I still anneal after every firing whether it's neck sizing until I reach full fire form or its full-length.
Less pressure is always better, full length , re sizing
I JUST got into reloading; literally sized/decapped by first 10 cases today to get the die set up and make sure it was tight. One thing i noticed was that on the down stroke of the ram (when the expander passes through the neck a second time) it was hang up slightly. I used a cream style lube but didn't put any on the inside of the neck or prep it in any way. From every video I've seen it looks like it should be smooth in and out.
Is there a problem? Do i need to use a spray lube so it gets inside the neck? Is the case moving somehow in the press/die?
what are your favorite 6.5 mandrels and where do you buy them?
I have been using the ones from 21st century reloading for the most part.
@@BoltActionReloading ok.
I knew I HAX SE3N SOME FROM FORSYER ON A PREVIOUS VIDEO.
I BIT THE BULLETS AND ORDERED 2 SETS OF THOSE EXPENSIVE COMPARATOR INSERTS...DAMN....LOL
I WL CHECK OUT THEUR MANDRELS.I BOUGHT A 6.5MM MANDREL FOR MY CREEDMOOR AND PRC.FROM SINCLAIR
I don't really understand why the expander balls are smaller than the bullets you plan to seat. I have a 357Sig die with an expander that is 0.353. Trying to stuff a 0.355 bullet into the neck causes crushed shoulders. I end up having to use a universal expander to open it up just slightly.
You need to have neck tension to hold the projectile in place. When you crimp pistol you add some of that back but you still need some of that neck tension.
@@BoltActionReloading I understand that, but if you can't physically seat a bullet in the neck then I feel like the die doesn't work or is incomplete as it comes. When I buy a die set, I don't expect to have to also buy a third die to make it work. 357Sig is a pistol cartridge, but it's more similar to other bottleneck rifle cartridges. As such, it comes in a 2 die rifle type set from RCBS, but the expander ball just doesn't work without expanding the neck further using a separate die.
As you are aware, the more you work the brass the harder it becomes (not to mention all brass is not exactly the same in hardness). The solution is to anneal before sizing so that you get optimum amount of change without affecting hardness too much. The guys at Annealing Made Perfect have very good data that suggests annealing again (after sizing) produces the most consistent neck tension (yes, twice). This is not a commercial for them, but they have a compelling story (yes, they have a UA-cam Channel).
I didn't want to get too deep if I could help it. I have the AMP, but I haven't tried annealing post sizing at this point. I sub to their channel as well but don't remember them talking about doing this.
@@BoltActionReloading It was a discussion of 1,000 yard dispersion and is is recent. I was surprised that there are multiple annealings when producing new brass.
Hi David, I can't seem to find it. If you can shoot me a link I would appreciate it.
@@BoltActionReloading You are correct, I only see "Annealing Under the Microscope Part 5 Preview" from Oct 19. I don;t recall where I saw the reference to the second annealing and the effect on consistent neck tension. I thought it was the same gentleman but another video. Getting old here.
No Problem, If you find it sometime just send it to me. Appreciate your input as always.
How do you think the micron dies by bullet central compare to the short action customs neck shoulder bushing dies? Not concerning the versatility
I haven't tried one out so its very hard to say.
Thanks for getting back to me. You make some awesome videos. Exceptionally clear and to the point.
Hi David, glad you enjoy the channel. I try to all the questions I can. I miss some. Thanks for watching!
Is it worth going with a redding S bushing die vs something like a Wilson full length bushing die and what die would you most recommend for full length sizing and using a separate mandrel?
Can any brand of die fit in and work/function in any reloading bench press? Like is it only Lee die works with a Lee press or are you able to have interchange die brands in any type of press? Like use a Lee die in any press brand? Thanks :)
You can pretty much put any die brand in any press. (as long as the dies are the standard 7/8"-14 thread)
BAR
MAN, YOU DON'T MESS AROUND WHEN YOU BUY RELOADING DIES!!!😉👉💥💨
I have many questions bc I want to start to get into reloading. But no matter what I choose to reload does the equipment I buy whether it be lee Hornady etc, itll come with a book/information on what OAL on neck size on how to do everything right?
Most kits come with reloading manuals that will have directions. I have a link to a book in the description that may be worth the read.
@@BoltActionReloading thank you so much I will be sure to check it out. It seems like a lot but I don't want it to stop me from trying while also being safe. Much appreciated and awesome video
Can you make a video on a 25 .06
I don't own one.
no off the shelf full length sizing die will size your fire formed brass to your chamber, they are 'standardized' to ensure that any case will fit in any chamber. The only way to have a better fit or best fit is to have a custom die cut to your fire formed brass from your chamber. You can even have a seater die to your chamber. Body dies are used to size cases that are difficult to chamber but doesn't mean that is the only reason they were made that way, any full length die was designed to do that. A body die leaves the neck alone to be sized by the Lee collet die mentioned bit also a neck bushing sizing die also. The body die is used along with a neck sizing die to require less work on the case neck. Fired brass on the neck portion only get sized Once verses twice with a standard full length die, and the neck is way over sized and has to be expanded with a ball expander or mandrel, verses a body die and a collet die or neck bushing die..... end result again less work on the case. You can't get way for the body and shoulder being worked, that's a given, but the neck is worked less. Neck sizing only is due to a shoulder being set back too far, and neck sizing for awhile effects accuracy. Proper sizing is bumping a shoulder back from proper fire forming to work the case less for longer life of the case and better accuracy. How can neck sizing only in regards to case life be minimal when it comes to case head stretching ? It is not minimal, eventually. How would one know how minimal it would be depends on how far you full length size, or better how far you set back the shoulder? beginners read the die set up instructions and 'cam' the die over the shell holder, which means they are sizing to minimum head space. Very short case life.... just neck sizing you describe. Is that what you're saying that it's ok to just neck size ? I don't think that's good advice and that is generalization, bud. Needing small base dies is not only not needed but a marketing tool to sell a special die. The base of a die sizes way beyond what the chamber base is at, like .004 or cammed over, even more. Even partially full length sizing or better called shoulder set back, still over sizes your case head. More sizing, yes, is more work and is the only thing that you said is true. You mention beginners.... the advice you are giving here is from a beginner. More advanced hand loaders are beyond. Your title of this video should not say "how to choose the correct sizing die", but should say, "how to correctly size with a full length sizing die" A custom die is better. Different brass with different neck thickness requires different neck bushing, correct. It's not who's way is better, it's about what way is best, and done correctly. Knowing what way is best for you should be what way is best for the chamber fit. Neck tension is the way to go for SD/ES and not distort neck with expander ball/decapping rods introducing runout. Honed out necks, correct no turning back the die is worthless when changing brass neck thickness, bushing sizes correct that. Bushing/mandrel differences?? Never used bushings, benchrest/F class vary in which one they use. Toss up.
question I was told the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die does not need any lube because of the collet system
is this correct ?
Yes, to size the neck of fired brass, you do not have to have lube. If you are using it to uniform the necks on new brass, you may want to consider it just to keep it from galling the inside of the necks.
@@BoltActionReloading thanks ; now I'm really happy as I just ordered one on Amazon for $70.00 cdn.
You're vids. are great but sometimes I have to play them twice , there's usually lots of data to absorb in a short period of time :)
Have you done one on various tuner/brakes ? I just installed Harrells tuner/brakes on my factory Rem. 700 223 tac. and my previous best 5 shot groups of 5/8ths. have been reduced to 3/8ths.
Think those tuners really shine on factory barrels.
Have you tried the Mighty Armory FL die?
I have not picked one up yet. Seems people like them but I haven't got my hands on one yet
@@BoltActionReloading I just got mine via UPS. I'll let you know once we've moved
It's "forster", not forester.
You really do talk too fast to get your information across. You know what you're talking about, I'm learning and trying to understand. Please slow down.
I understand why, I do it myself. Sharp mind and lots of information to get out. I'm sure he'll get a better pace over time. Really enjoying the content 👍
I guess by now you know it is For-ster, not For-es-ter.
too much info too fast