Facebook isn't full of divisive arguments spurred on by an algorithm designed to addict you to approval and outrage. You're clearly wrong about everything in every respect and the likes will prove it!
Been encouraging my wife to give up FB as I did. Yes, for all those reasons stated. It’s crap, it’s drama, it’s lies, it’s contentious. Not saying it always was but it is now. Nuff said.
I've seen this happen with a 225 Winchester chamber. My chamber is VERY generous (maybe cut with a brand new reamer), but still technically within SAAMI spec. My (first) resizing die was squeezing down my fired cases to minimum SAAMI spec. This meant my cases were going through a lot of expansion during the firing process, and a lot of pressure was needed on my reloading press to get the case back down to a size that would fit the tighest spec chamber. The end result was I was losing a lot of 225 Winchester brass to splits...and that stuff isn't easy to find! My immediate solution was a Redding neck-sizing die, since the brass coming out of my chambers springs back quite a bit and feeds back into the chamber very easily, without sizing the body of the case. I also sent a couple of fired cases to Redding and they made me a custom die for sizing the body...I think it's called a collet die? It wasn't cheap, but neither was trying to replace all of the split 225W brass I was losing!
Erik, You do a good job. Just for info on the SAAMI drawing the bottom drawing for chamber, the top drawing is cartridge. HS chamber is 1.820 max 1.810 mi. HS cartridge is 1.814 -.007
obviously, none of these people that say any of this do any reading, studying, researching, calculating, or listening to pro's like yourself that have been there and done that. Thank you Eric, for helping all of us to gain the knowledge to be better shooters!
One reason many of us reload is to be able to closely control dimensions of the case when reforming/resizing the brass to make it a pretty precise "custom fit" to the individual rifle's chamber to control headspace, seating depth (and things like bullet distance from the lands) and other dimensions of the loaded round, no matter which end of the SAAMI specs that particular chamber meets...either tight/loose or long/short. inside the pretty large variances in SAAMI spec tolerance to (hopefully) produce the best ammo for YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIFLE. As Erik pointed out on the SAAMI diagram he showed, there are allowances for variation in lots of the dimensions.The "limits" in the SAAMI tolerances exist for several reasons, a couple of which are: (1) To allow ammo to work safely in SAAMI chambers and (2) To accommodate what are known as manufacturing tolerances, which allow whatever item is being made to not have to be made to ONE VERY PRECISE measurement, which is usually EXPENSIVE (which can often mean that is will not be marketable at a price point that will allow it to be competitive in the market). So, you see that doing a .002" shoulder bump as a matter of routine for all of your reloads will NOT produce the ideal case (and, therefore, things like case life and accuracy on target) for all of your rifles...it pretty much has to be done to measurements that derive from EACH INDIVIDUAL RIFLE to meet the shooter's requirements, however those requirements are arrived at.
I’m a relative newby to reloading so I don’t have all the experience some of you guys have but it makes sense to me that once your brass is fire formed to your chamber, FL sizing and bumping the shoulder back two thou from that would always give you a consistent repeatable result which is what we’re ultimately aiming for right? As long as you periodically monitor throat erosion and adjust along with it to keep it at a 2 thou bump you would keep your consistency. I would think that any more of a bump would unnecessarily cut down on brass life and any less could get you into chambering and possible over pressure issues. I don’t see a down side to his method
Exactly! One does not know if the gun barrel he has was reamed with a brand new reamer at the long end of the SAAMI spec tolerance or if it was the last barrel chambered with that particular reamer, thus at the short end of the spec.
I keep finding these gems of knowledge! Reloading seems daunting to get into but you find a way to make it digestible. As an aspiring reloaded I value the knowledge you give us for free. You could be doing the "For all the tips and trick goto my executive class..." Nope, "Hey, let me correct a misconception." Thank you Sir.
Eric, Great video. You just illustrated the problem in the reloading community. People forget that words have meaning and reloaders are often guilty of interchanging words that should never be interchanged.
Eric, you and a few others on UA-cam allow me to continue growing my understanding and improve my practices and results. Seeing information and technique displayed in your videos, along with the way you break it down really helps me comprehend what I read or see. I have learned so much from you. Thank you.
Eric, I agree 100%. There are reloaders who load one case to fit all chambers, and then are hand loaders who reload for their rifle, not all of them. Those who insist on adjusting resizing dies to kiss the shell holder are usually the ones who also wonder why their cases don't last long. .008-.010 stretching on each firing can do that. I reload a 6mm Mongoose in my AR, a wildcat based on the .223 case. It takes .003-.004 bump for the bolt to lock without resistance. Setting the die to kiss the holder will bump the shoulder .008. Too much.
The worst thing I ever did was buy a second .303 milsurp. Some of those things have chambers so sloppy it's not funny. With .303 you DO neck-size most of the time because FLR works the brass way too much in some of the more generous chambers. Having two of the bloody things means you either sequester the brass very carefully or FLR so it goes well in both chambers. NEVER AGAIN. Range brass, on the other hand - yeah, that stuff gets the full treatment. If I'm not completely sure that it's already been through my gun, no half measures.
@@Ensign_Cthulhuor you just set back the appropriate amount with a full length die, people just insist on neck sizing, because they think they know better.
Love your content! I've just started reloading and have followed what I've learned from your videos and the very first batch of reloads i I did produced average 1/2 moa groups!
Great info! I like how you addressed the base of the cartridge expanding. I had a FL die that wasn't sizing the base enough, and now I have a couple hundred clickers. Once they went 3 firings, they were done. New die, all better.
I'm just getting into this type of shooting, & learning a lot from your video's. Thanks very much, very informative. How are the barrel tuners coming along?
I watched most your videos, it all makes sense, or goes over my head good content. Clarifying harmonics are relative to seating depth was a huge help. And at the end of the day don't think I own a rifle that will shoot 1/4 MOA consistently so I just listen, thanks.
It's good to have a straight forward guy like yourself to clear up the mud. Reloading is great hobby if folks don't suck you into all the rabbit holes they create over a relatively basic task. Wish I found you when I first started reloading.
Excellent explanation. I have one of those wildcat/improved rifles in 6.5-06 Ackley Improved. Really enjoy the entire process of sizing & fire forming the brass to get to final dimensions.
Saami is a pretty loose girl, went to school with her lot of fun!! Hahaha!! Great to see another video from you didn't know if you gave up on it (more hassle than it's worth), great info though! I'm a mechanic and learned a long time ago nothing has to be dead on you have a range to work in.
Mr. Cortina, I appreciate your concise explanation of headspace it is truly a fact that many should understand. This is what I see many shell manufacturers doing and each shell's case headspace is easily checked before firing and after firing using the RCBS Precision Micrometer. After firing 17 Aguila 150 gr. FMJ .308 shells the fired case headspace is -1 under minimum headspace to +1 over minimum headspace. Maybe OK although barely within the minimum to maximum .010" range. There were 3 rounds that failed to fire actually there were a couple other rounds that I had to put in the chamber again to get them to fire. But, the 3 that didn't fire have case headspaces of -8, -13. and -15 below SAAMI minimum. Although I am not out to disparage Aguila this puts them in the case head separation range I would wager. I didn't measure the 17 fired cases but if one of the cases was -15 below SAAMI minimum and lengthened to 0 minimum headspace, I would deduce that if they had been loaded to minimum headspace they could have lengthened .005" over the maximum headspace which could have caused damage to my rifle or even a big Kaboom. Besides that the accuracy was bad. So, obviously, Aguila knows that at least with this lot of shells they are using brass that's below industry standards and maybe taking advantage of the shortages to get rid of brass that should have been melted down and recast to industry standards for hardness.
You are 100% right. I had a mossberg mvp .223. I was only neck sizing my brass. I broke 2 extractors before I figured out what I was doing wrong. Cases were always getting stuck in chamber. I now full length size with minimum bump, for all my rifles. All is good. No more extraction problems.
Erik just want to thank u for taking the time to want to help us better understand world of long range reloading. Keep the interviews with great shooters coming very interesting information.
I enjoy how you simplify the process, there are a couple of other channels that are way more technical, which leads to re watching. Keep up the awesome content
This was extremely helpful to me as young reloader. I have thrown brass aside several times when I couldn’t get it close enough for comfort to my desired dimensions, so knowing where to look up safe tolerances is going to be seriously helpful. I strive for bang on, but I need to be consistently safe and confident first.
Thanks, I been Reloading for 33 years. You screw up my Mind but I understand and I understood. But still my mind is still going 90 miles per hours and I barely keeping it in check thanks for that.
Erik I am a trapper and varmint caller. But I care about precision and that precision is to hit a 10 inch paper plate at ranges to 600 yards. For bench guys that's simple right. However, as you explain in many of your videos things are not that obvious. Indeed my shots in the field have variables which are 100 over the some of the controlled variables off a bench. Like taking a 200 yard shot at -20f with a 170 degree 10 knot wind over a valley. Talk about a cold barrel! :) Thus my control over variables happen at the reloading bench primarily. Bottomline, your videos are important to me as they help me control my reloading bench variables. I continue to review your videos each time I need to reload, (just as I did on this one). I say this as my time at the reloading bench is not as frequent as bench guys and I forget some things. In perspective I practice one shot one kill as that one shot may get me a $200-$800 bobcat, a $500 wolf or when times were good $100-$150 coyote. Thank you Erick and be safe!
IMO people are misunderstanding full length sizing vs neck sizing only. I am not a novice reloader but also in no way shape or form am I an expert reloader and listening to your video I’ve learned from what I thought the two meant to what they actually mean. I’ve listened to people talk about bumping the neck back but until I watched a video just before watching yours and watching the guy use a feeler gauge to set up a .002 bump on his brass, and explaining why, I never understood why. Thank you for taking the time to explain in layman terms how SAAMI is calculated. I am the type of person who struggles with learning by reading. I either have to do or watch so thank you again for that.
What i like to know is who would give you two thumbs down with all the information that you give out. Very good information thanks its help me a lot my SD were 15 to 20 now I’m down to 5.5
Erik, as one of your patrons, I have been busy and not yet up to date with your current videos, but I do want to thank you for your in detail explanations and your humble approach. Your videos are outstanding and please keep them coming. I have learned a hell of a lot from you and you have my respect. Thanks again.
Eric talked about sizing the case while referring to the chamber headspace numbers. When you look at the round/case number the dimension to the intersection on the shoulder (headspace equivalent) it is 1.807 - 1.814. So according to the SAAMI specification the case can be smaller than the chamber minimum by .003 or larger than the minimum by .004 but still smaller than the chamber maximum by .006. Eric says that cartridge/case manufactures makes cases that are under the chamber minimum of 1.810, but they will never be smaller than 1.807 and still be in spec. If you have a chamber that is at the max of 1.820 and your case is 1.807 that is a whopping .013 of headspace. A lot of stretch in the brass. BUT if you always use the brass in the same rifle once it is fire formed then the chamber size is no longer relevant. Size the case with a full size die and bump the shoulder back .002 and reload.
want to add some more fun SAAMI specs for the case "headspace" or the length from case head to .420 datum is max 1.814" -.007" or min 1.807" so you can have NEW manufactured brass thats .004" over min CHAMBER head space OR you can have a SAAMI min spec case thats 1.807" into a Max CHAMBER of 1.820 giving you .013" for your brass to stretch. fun stuff. SAAMI has all sorts of info from testing requirements , testing equipment and so on. Good stuff Mr. Cortina , Ive tried to tell people this for a while. Especially those of us shooting old military rifles with some "loose tolerance" chambers. that will shoot "fine" if you only full length size to that -.002" bump back. it will keep your brass from being over worked.
I downloaded the rifle and pistol spec's and use the print as my opening sheet for that caliber in the reloading notebook I use. They have been very helpful in understanding my reloading efforts. This practice is highly recommended..................... Thanks for the video ............ enjoy
you put out the best content out there. Period and your credentials say it all. Not stroking you. Just being real. Thanks for taking your time for us newbies!!!! Im the worst reloader ever. but eventually I will be able to hold may own. God willing!
I don't know what SAAMI headspace specs are for 300 Win Mag (it headspaces off the belt anyway) but on virgin brass I've seen the shoulder move forward .010 to .012 after the first firing. You better believe I'm only bumping the shoulder back .002" Otherwise I would be replacing brass all the time.
Interesting! Never thought of it like that, If the chamber is sammi spec, the expanded brass cannot be larger than the chamber thus the brass is within spec. So when resizing, as long as you don't go below minimum sammi specs you will always be in spec unless you chamber is messed up.
Plus if you have a older military rifle the "chamber" might not be in SAAMI spec but passes a "military field gauge " you can use full length die adjusted correctly to get that -.002" shoulder bump and keep that brass from being over worked.
Great video. There is very little in this world that goes with NEVER and ALWAYS . The best rule is it DEPENDS. The old rule of thumb size it just enough to fit in the chamber. I have been reloading for more years than you have been walking. What I will say that over the years have seen a trend in tolerances being closer to the minimum on headspace. Early rifles I have seen chambers at the maximum and yes .010 over the minimum. Even some more. The tools I use to measure hesdspace are at the minimum of the SAAMI specifications. That term "SAAMI Specs" in my opinion has come to be understood as the minimum specification. Our manufacturing processes have shrunk the tolerance to smaller variations. What I hate to see is "still using a dropin case guage" the first time I see some asking a question as to why my brass doesn't fit my guage, is. YOUR guage doesn't fit your chamber either. How did that case guage manufacturer know you rifles manufactures dimensions of your chamber? As far as neck sizing. What you say is true for 90% of the cartridges and what you do by annealing circumvents most of the issues. You full length size a 220 Swift not considering the variations in neck thickness between manufactures brass and you will have some split necks very shortly. Especially with Winchester brass. It is one of the thickest neck brass in 220 Swift at .017 thick. In a standard fl sizer I would be pushing that neck possibly in and out .005 to a side .010 total more over a standard Remington brass at .012 neck thickness. That is where the exception to NEVER neck size. As for annealing. Not everyone is a PRS or Benchrest shooter. I have 8 loads on some Hornady brass that still is kicking. Fl sized every time to just fit and primer pockets are still snug for maybe a couple more. Then the way to extend primer pockets, which was easy to do. Was to start with Winchesters or CCI450s and progress to a BR4 or Fed 205m to just a 205. I haven't mic'd the primers since "pantime" but that was the sequence I used from smallest to largest diameter. Same with lrp starting with 9 1/2s.
Great Video! I had that exact argument with someone I work with. Your delivery was much better formulated. However, I hope he is watching this video and will now shut his cake-hole about resizing. Erik,... Just going to say it again: "Book" also, going to need that break in black.
The barrel maker and die maker reference SAAMI spec when they make their product. The reloader has the latitude to adjust shoulder bump. MOST cartridges are tapered, this gives the reloader the needed latitude to adjust shoulder bump during the reloading process. There fore, FL'd cartridges are SAAMI by design and definition. What's the problem? By the arguments definition, then neck sized brass is not SAAMI. Excluding Wildcat ammo, did I miss something?
I think the argument is not so much in the practices used, but in the definitions used to describe the practices of resizing. The term FL sizing is and always has been defined as sizing brass back to its original dimensions. SAAMI defines it this way. The original dimensions are factory specs which are around SAAMI min dimensions. For my 40 years of hand loading this has been my understanding, and I’ve yet to find a manual or or other source that says differently. The practice of bumping the shoulder has always been understood as partial resizing. But apparently partial resizing no longer exists and there is only FL sizing and neck sizing now? I’m not sure who changed the definitions and thereby confounded the discussion?
Your 100% correct and now I get it. I wish you’d have some 7mm rem mag advise because I’ve spent a lot of time chasing my tail and shooting out good barrels but slowly watching your videos I’m getting there thanks Erik
Use that process to resize your cartridges so they headspace off the shoulder instead of the belt. I had an old Winchester in 300WM that couldn't hold a 3" group at 100 yards but a benchrest shooter friend of mine showed me how to measure and resize properly for that particular rifle and it made all the difference.
Awesome video man. very well explained. My friends are going to shit themselves when i show them this. They are always on my ass about the way I size brass because I only bump the shoulder 3 or 4 thou for my AR but I have never had a feeding or function problem. Thanx a lot for taking the time to make these videos.
Also, with "no question ask FL sizing" I checked my .223 REM brass yeserday, that was sized with a regular RCBS FL and a RCBS SB X-Die, both sized on shell holder contact to -5 thou, so, so much for "bringing the case to spec" :-)
Awesome info man love your content definitely helped me out heaps getting back into reloading use it for both my work guns and my long range gun works awesome 👌🏻
I want Eric to elaborate “a whole lot, more“ on “fully resizing“. I understand what he and others are saying about consistency, but to me and most of the people I’ve corresponded with that have reloaded since the early 1980s, Are confused and think full length resizing undoes what “fire forming“ accomplishes. A lot of reloading companies I’ve corresponded with also agree, Eric needs to elaborate a whole lot more on this topic🤔 Starting with virgin brass first firing in your rifle fire formed the brass. Once the brass is fire formed/Custom sized to your chamber, I was always under the impression, bumping her shoulder back approximately 2000, neck, sizing on the inside & out of the case, and possibly turning the neck was the way to go.
The magic of SAAMI specs are that they fit ANY gun chambered correctly in a specific round. The down side is that it's not optimal for YOUR gun in a specific caliber. There's a trade off of accuracy (and brass life) for the rounds being universal in nature. As an example on a reloading forum I'm on one guy was talking about having to bore the neck of a sizing die out so that he could resize a bunch of 223 (a few thousand rounds) he'd loaded up so that he could shoot it. The rounds worked fine in the varmit rifles he'd sold but wouldn't fit his other guns as sized.
What amazes me is that most of these people will spend a lot of money to screw around with their brass and just ignore the rifle they had "Built". You can make a reamer to fit your dies. I did that with an 8x57 once. See if you can follow this: Fire some brass, FL resize and trim. This is used for your reamer dimension and headspace dimension. After reloading this brass fire in your chamber and FL resize. None of the brass I fired this way in the 8x57 grew more than .001 in OAL after firing. I never followed the paper punching crowd, but it seems a backwards way to accurize your brass. With the new CNC tool grinders, it would have to be easier to make an accurate reamer.
Thank You so much for sharing the importance of actual specs and how wrong it can go just by thinking the gun will hold your firecracker the you invented with loading equipment. People need to be careful.
The lower drawing is the dimensions and tolerances for the chamber itself. The upper drawing is for the cartridge/ brass, and is what should be maintained during reloading.
280ai chamber spec is 2.140-2.150. Most new brass offerings measure around 2.135, and I’ve even measured them smaller than that. (Don’t get me started on Nosler brass 😅) One thing I’ve noticed is not all brass fully forms or grows to size on 1 firing. I had 2 firings on Peterson brass before I hit the MINIMUM. I know you preach against neck sizing. But I won’t full length size or bump till my brass grows to the exact chamber size. I neck size and fire and fire until my cases measure inside the min/max. Then I add my .002 with a FL size
All very true for a rimless case. Where bumping the shoulder is even more important is with rimmed or belted cases. Here I suspect the tolerances even angles of the shoulder may be much looser. They headspace of the rim or belt thickness. It may be possible with these cases that if you only bump the shoulder you may or may not fully size the rest of the case because some of them have a lot of body taper. That means the case may fit the chamber more tightly that with a full size but your brass will last a lot longer.
Erik you declare in this vid that fire-formed brass is within SAAMI spec because the rifle chamber dimensions are within SAAMI spec. That holds true of all specs bar case length [L3 in CIP designation]. The neck extrudes with each firing and will need trimming at some point. I am not taking issue with your broad points in this vid, but the case trim requirement is probably worth an inclusion in a presentation on sizing, particularly as the other comments here suggest quite a lot of new reloaders tracking your tutorials.
I used to over work my brass a lot. I was talking to my gunsmith about reloading and setting up dies and what not and he turned me on to the way I do it now. I take whatever I'm loading for at the moment with a case from that chamber and size it down until it fits that chamber. Then I lock it down and go. Ideally one would use the correct measuring tools but this has worked well for me.
The best thing to do is to get a custom ground reamer to minimúm SAMMY or .002 - 003 larger than virgin Full length resized cases of the brand of brass you plan to reload . The case neck and base of the case above extractor groove is the most important measurements to me. Only like to clean up case necks with out heavy brass removal like a tight neck plus I do not like base of the case with a bulge after only one firing. Your gunsmith can give you a tight head space. The full length die should size the case just enough to fit the chamber of your rifle with out any force on bolt closure.
By reloading i was really impressed to learn that brass cases could get slightly larger than the chamber after firing. What was hard to believe is that with highest pressures, chamber, brass but also bolt tenon 😨 stretch. After firing, the bolt tenons and the chamber recover their dimensions but the brass doesnt come back to this chamber size exactly. Otherwise the cases would still chamber easily and wouldn't require any FL resizing.
Great info, I don't do Facebook at all, just to remove unnecessary drama from my life..people will argue about anything
No they wont
Facebook isn't full of divisive arguments spurred on by an algorithm designed to addict you to approval and outrage. You're clearly wrong about everything in every respect and the likes will prove it!
@@FullSendPrecision 🤣🤣🤣👍
Been encouraging my wife to give up FB as I did. Yes, for all those reasons stated. It’s crap, it’s drama, it’s lies, it’s contentious. Not saying it always was but it is now. Nuff said.
I've seen this happen with a 225 Winchester chamber. My chamber is VERY generous (maybe cut with a brand new reamer), but still technically within SAAMI spec. My (first) resizing die was squeezing down my fired cases to minimum SAAMI spec. This meant my cases were going through a lot of expansion during the firing process, and a lot of pressure was needed on my reloading press to get the case back down to a size that would fit the tighest spec chamber. The end result was I was losing a lot of 225 Winchester brass to splits...and that stuff isn't easy to find! My immediate solution was a Redding neck-sizing die, since the brass coming out of my chambers springs back quite a bit and feeds back into the chamber very easily, without sizing the body of the case. I also sent a couple of fired cases to Redding and they made me a custom die for sizing the body...I think it's called a collet die? It wasn't cheap, but neither was trying to replace all of the split 225W brass I was losing!
I've been reloading for over a decade and still you school me with nearly every video you post. Thank you for sharing!
I feel this statement fully. I learn every new vid he puts out . 🤦♂️ he’s an encyclopedia of knowledge
Erik, You do a good job. Just for info on the SAAMI drawing the bottom drawing for chamber, the top drawing is cartridge. HS chamber is 1.820 max 1.810 mi. HS cartridge is 1.814 -.007
obviously, none of these people that say any of this do any reading, studying, researching, calculating, or listening to pro's like yourself that have been there and done that. Thank you Eric, for helping all of us to gain the knowledge to be better shooters!
Anybody who has a machine realizes that.010 thou is a mile. Thanks for the video
One reason many of us reload is to be able to closely control dimensions of the case when reforming/resizing the brass to make it a pretty precise "custom fit" to the individual rifle's chamber to control headspace, seating depth (and things like bullet distance from the lands) and other dimensions of the loaded round, no matter which end of the SAAMI specs that particular chamber meets...either tight/loose or long/short. inside the pretty large variances in SAAMI spec tolerance to (hopefully) produce the best ammo for YOUR INDIVIDUAL RIFLE. As Erik pointed out on the SAAMI diagram he showed, there are allowances for variation in lots of the dimensions.The "limits" in the SAAMI tolerances exist for several reasons, a couple of which are: (1) To allow ammo to work safely in SAAMI chambers and (2) To accommodate what are known as manufacturing tolerances, which allow whatever item is being made to not have to be made to ONE VERY PRECISE measurement, which is usually EXPENSIVE (which can often mean that is will not be marketable at a price point that will allow it to be competitive in the market). So, you see that doing a .002" shoulder bump as a matter of routine for all of your reloads will NOT produce the ideal case (and, therefore, things like case life and accuracy on target) for all of your rifles...it pretty much has to be done to measurements that derive from EACH INDIVIDUAL RIFLE to meet the shooter's requirements, however those requirements are arrived at.
I’m a relative newby to reloading so I don’t have all the experience some of you guys have but it makes sense to me that once your brass is fire formed to your chamber, FL sizing and bumping the shoulder back two thou from that would always give you a consistent repeatable result which is what we’re ultimately aiming for right? As long as you periodically monitor throat erosion and adjust along with it to keep it at a 2 thou bump you would keep your consistency. I would think that any more of a bump would unnecessarily cut down on brass life and any less could get you into chambering and possible over pressure issues. I don’t see a down side to his method
Exactly! One does not know if the gun barrel he has was reamed with a brand new reamer at the long end of the SAAMI spec tolerance or if it was the last barrel chambered with that particular reamer, thus at the short end of the spec.
Throat erosion has nothing to do with the shoulder your bullet seating may change but the shoulder remans the same.
I keep finding these gems of knowledge! Reloading seems daunting to get into but you find a way to make it digestible. As an aspiring reloaded I value the knowledge you give us for free. You could be doing the "For all the tips and trick goto my executive class..." Nope, "Hey, let me correct a misconception." Thank you Sir.
Eric,
Great video. You just illustrated the problem in the reloading community. People forget that words have meaning and reloaders are often guilty of interchanging words that should never be interchanged.
Very well said! I totally understand and agree with you, I always bump my shoulders .002” and have no problems😎
Eric, you and a few others on UA-cam allow me to continue growing my understanding and improve my practices and results. Seeing information and technique displayed in your videos, along with the way you break it down really helps me comprehend what I read or see. I have learned so much from you. Thank you.
Eric, I agree 100%. There are reloaders who load one case to fit all chambers, and then are hand loaders who reload for their rifle, not all of them. Those who insist on adjusting resizing dies to kiss the shell holder are usually the ones who also wonder why their cases don't last long. .008-.010 stretching on each firing can do that. I reload a 6mm Mongoose in my AR, a wildcat based on the .223 case. It takes .003-.004 bump for the bolt to lock without resistance. Setting the die to kiss the holder will bump the shoulder .008. Too much.
The worst thing I ever did was buy a second .303 milsurp. Some of those things have chambers so sloppy it's not funny. With .303 you DO neck-size most of the time because FLR works the brass way too much in some of the more generous chambers. Having two of the bloody things means you either sequester the brass very carefully or FLR so it goes well in both chambers. NEVER AGAIN.
Range brass, on the other hand - yeah, that stuff gets the full treatment. If I'm not completely sure that it's already been through my gun, no half measures.
@@Ensign_Cthulhuor you just set back the appropriate amount with a full length die, people just insist on neck sizing, because they think they know better.
I see someone that has production going and under control, three thumbs up!
I'm sitting here watching this while FULL LENGTH resizing!!!
Blasphemy haha
@@stephenthompson9722 I like to push the envelope.
@@stephenthompson9722 well I'm sitting here neck sizing my new hollow base bullets!! Half inch thou yard groups here I come!!
I’ve been sizing this way for years. I really like the way you articulated how SAAMI specs work
Love your content! I've just started reloading and have followed what I've learned from your videos and the very first batch of reloads i I did produced average 1/2 moa groups!
Great info! I like how you addressed the base of the cartridge expanding. I had a FL die that wasn't sizing the base enough, and now I have a couple hundred clickers. Once they went 3 firings, they were done. New die, all better.
I love this guy he make me wish i found his channel when you could find reloading supplies
I'm just getting into this type of shooting, & learning a lot from your video's. Thanks very much, very informative. How are the barrel tuners coming along?
I watched most your videos, it all makes sense, or goes over my head good content.
Clarifying harmonics are relative to seating depth was a huge help.
And at the end of the day don't think I own a rifle that will shoot 1/4 MOA consistently so I just listen, thanks.
It's good to have a straight forward guy like yourself to clear up the mud.
Reloading is great hobby if folks don't suck you into all the rabbit holes they create over a relatively basic task.
Wish I found you when I first started reloading.
Erik, excellent explanation of what we need to understand when bumping back the shoulder.
"SAAMI don't tell me how to live my life" LOL That cracked me up... But seriously you hit the nail on the head with this one!!!
Excellent explanation. I have one of those wildcat/improved rifles in 6.5-06 Ackley Improved. Really enjoy the entire process of sizing & fire forming the brass to get to final dimensions.
Saami is a pretty loose girl, went to school with her lot of fun!! Hahaha!! Great to see another video from you didn't know if you gave up on it (more hassle than it's worth), great info though! I'm a mechanic and learned a long time ago nothing has to be dead on you have a range to work in.
What a fantastic presentation rendering this topic crystal clear. THANK YOU !!!
Mr. Cortina, I appreciate your concise explanation of headspace it is truly a fact that many should understand. This is what I see many shell manufacturers doing and each shell's case headspace is easily checked before firing and after firing using the RCBS Precision Micrometer. After firing 17 Aguila 150 gr. FMJ .308 shells the fired case headspace is -1 under minimum headspace to +1 over minimum headspace. Maybe OK although barely within the minimum to maximum .010" range. There were 3 rounds that failed to fire actually there were a couple other rounds that I had to put in the chamber again to get them to fire. But, the 3 that didn't fire have case headspaces of -8, -13. and -15 below SAAMI minimum. Although I am not out to disparage Aguila this puts them in the case head separation range I would wager. I didn't measure the 17 fired cases but if one of the cases was -15 below SAAMI minimum and lengthened to 0 minimum headspace, I would deduce that if they had been loaded to minimum headspace they could have lengthened .005" over the maximum headspace which could have caused damage to my rifle or even a big Kaboom. Besides that the accuracy was bad. So, obviously, Aguila knows that at least with this lot of shells they are using brass that's below industry standards and maybe taking advantage of the shortages to get rid of brass that should have been melted down and recast to industry standards for hardness.
Excellent explanation of what shoulder bumping is when sizing brass..Thanks, I learned a bit here.
You are 100% right. I had a mossberg mvp .223. I was only neck sizing my brass. I broke 2 extractors before I figured out what I was doing wrong. Cases were always getting stuck in chamber. I now full length size with minimum bump, for all my rifles. All is good. No more extraction problems.
Erik just want to thank u for taking the time to want to help us better understand world of long range reloading. Keep the interviews with great shooters coming very interesting information.
I enjoy how you simplify the process, there are a couple of other channels that are way more technical, which leads to re watching. Keep up the awesome content
I like that you went over one of these drawings cuz there are times where I'm like "wtf do they mean by that". Thanx for the tips
This was extremely helpful to me as young reloader. I have thrown brass aside several times when I couldn’t get it close enough for comfort to my desired dimensions, so knowing where to look up safe tolerances is going to be seriously helpful. I strive for bang on, but I need to be consistently safe and confident first.
I really needed this. Some of the others are not necessarily wrong, they just don't have a thourough understanding of this like you explained. Thanks.
Agreed. I bump shoulder as little as possible. 6.5x47 is my new favorite, should've had one long ago.
Thanks, I been Reloading for 33 years. You screw up my Mind but I understand and I understood.
But still my mind is still going 90 miles per hours and I barely keeping it in check thanks for that.
Thanks Erik you always put it where the goats can get it, tons of info simply put. 2yrs reloading.
Fantastic info! Helped clear up my confusion.
Erik I am a trapper and varmint caller. But I care about precision and that precision is to hit a 10 inch paper plate at ranges to 600 yards. For bench guys that's simple right. However, as you explain in many of your videos things are not that obvious. Indeed my shots in the field have variables which are 100 over the some of the controlled variables off a bench. Like taking a 200 yard shot at -20f with a 170 degree 10 knot wind over a valley. Talk about a cold barrel! :)
Thus my control over variables happen at the reloading bench primarily.
Bottomline, your videos are important to me as they help me control my reloading bench variables. I continue to review your videos each time I need to reload, (just as I did on this one). I say this as my time at the reloading bench is not as frequent as bench guys and I forget some things.
In perspective I practice one shot one kill as that one shot may get me a $200-$800 bobcat, a $500 wolf or when times were good $100-$150 coyote.
Thank you Erick and be safe!
IMO people are misunderstanding full length sizing vs neck sizing only. I am not a novice reloader but also in no way shape or form am I an expert reloader and listening to your video I’ve learned from what I thought the two meant to what they actually mean. I’ve listened to people talk about bumping the neck back but until I watched a video just before watching yours and watching the guy use a feeler gauge to set up a .002 bump on his brass, and explaining why, I never understood why. Thank you for taking the time to explain in layman terms how SAAMI is calculated. I am the type of person who struggles with learning by reading. I either have to do or watch so thank you again for that.
The problem is, is people take up reloading without any understanding of the process and what’s going on.
What i like to know is who would give you two thumbs down with all the information that you give out. Very good information thanks its help me a lot my SD were 15 to 20 now I’m down to 5.5
The guys that still neck size
Pure gospel brother Eric ..... thanks for sharing your knowledge mate🤙
Erik, as one of your patrons, I have been busy and not yet up to date with your current videos, but I do want to thank you for your in detail explanations and your humble approach. Your videos are outstanding and please keep them coming. I have learned a hell of a lot from you and you have my respect. Thanks again.
Eric talked about sizing the case while referring to the chamber headspace numbers. When you look at the round/case number the dimension to the intersection on the shoulder (headspace equivalent) it is 1.807 - 1.814. So according to the SAAMI specification the case can be smaller than the chamber minimum by .003 or larger than the minimum by .004 but still smaller than the chamber maximum by .006. Eric says that cartridge/case manufactures makes cases that are under the chamber minimum of 1.810, but they will never be smaller than 1.807 and still be in spec. If you have a chamber that is at the max of 1.820 and your case is 1.807 that is a whopping .013 of headspace. A lot of stretch in the brass. BUT if you always use the brass in the same rifle once it is fire formed then the chamber size is no longer relevant. Size the case with a full size die and bump the shoulder back .002 and reload.
What really counts is how well your dies brass and chamber work together. Make sure the variable's will work well together...
I did learn something. I had one little question before I moved on and you nailed it, good job and thanks.
I always learn something new when I watch your videos
want to add some more fun SAAMI specs for the case "headspace" or the length from case head to .420 datum is max 1.814" -.007" or min 1.807" so you can have NEW manufactured brass thats .004" over min CHAMBER head space OR you can have a SAAMI min spec case thats 1.807" into a Max CHAMBER of 1.820 giving you .013" for your brass to stretch.
fun stuff.
SAAMI has all sorts of info from testing requirements , testing equipment and so on.
Good stuff Mr. Cortina ,
Ive tried to tell people this for a while. Especially those of us shooting old military rifles with some "loose tolerance" chambers. that will shoot "fine" if you only full length size to that -.002" bump back. it will keep your brass from being over worked.
I downloaded the rifle and pistol spec's and use the print as my opening sheet for that caliber in the reloading notebook I use. They have been very helpful in understanding my reloading efforts.
This practice is highly recommended..................... Thanks for the video ............ enjoy
you put out the best content out there. Period and your credentials say it all. Not stroking you. Just being real. Thanks for taking your time for us newbies!!!! Im the worst reloader ever. but eventually I will be able to hold may own. God willing!
Erik,
Good to see you producing content again
Good information Erik. It actually brushed up some old reloading info i hadn`t thought about in a long time.
Thank you again Erik. Especially for the SAAMI site info.
Thanks Eric (from Denmark).
Erik, love this video. These are the facts, and they can’t be argued. Thank you for putting this out there for people to learn from.
I have been reloading for Uber 60 yes you have taught this old dog new tricks
I don't know what SAAMI headspace specs are for 300 Win Mag (it headspaces off the belt anyway) but on virgin brass I've seen the shoulder move forward .010 to .012 after the first firing.
You better believe I'm only bumping the shoulder back .002" Otherwise I would be replacing brass all the time.
This is a popular misconception. Belted and rimmed cartridges head space like a rimless case. It is built into the reamer.
New to long range loading. Your content has helped me avoid a lot of mistakes and what to buy.. Thanks for all you do..
I, too, am just getting into this. Thank you for clearing up some of the confusion.
Interesting! Never thought of it like that, If the chamber is sammi spec, the expanded brass cannot be larger than the chamber thus the brass is within spec. So when resizing, as long as you don't go below minimum sammi specs you will always be in spec unless you chamber is messed up.
Plus if you have a older military rifle the "chamber" might not be in SAAMI spec but passes a "military field gauge " you can use full length die adjusted correctly to get that -.002" shoulder bump and keep that brass from being over worked.
@Matt Stephens
If you use a FL die its going to size the body some also. A neck die wont touch the body
Very informative and helpful. Your content is always grounded with facts and common sense. Thanks
Thank you for explaining this Erik! I appreciate it! This never made sense to me.
Great video. There is very little in this world that goes with NEVER and ALWAYS . The best rule is it DEPENDS.
The old rule of thumb size it just enough to fit in the chamber. I have been reloading for more years than you have been walking. What I will say that over the years have seen a trend in tolerances being closer to the minimum on headspace. Early rifles I have seen chambers at the maximum and yes .010 over the minimum. Even some more. The tools I use to measure hesdspace are at the minimum of the SAAMI specifications. That term "SAAMI Specs" in my opinion has come to be understood as the minimum specification. Our manufacturing processes have shrunk the tolerance to smaller variations.
What I hate to see is "still using a dropin case guage" the first time I see some asking a question as to why my brass doesn't fit my guage, is. YOUR guage doesn't fit your chamber either. How did that case guage manufacturer know you rifles manufactures dimensions of your chamber?
As far as neck sizing. What you say is true for 90% of the cartridges and what you do by annealing circumvents most of the issues. You full length size a 220 Swift not considering the variations in neck thickness between manufactures brass and you will have some split necks very shortly. Especially with Winchester brass. It is one of the thickest neck brass in 220 Swift at .017 thick. In a standard fl sizer I would be pushing that neck possibly in and out .005 to a side .010 total more over a standard Remington brass at .012 neck thickness. That is where the exception to NEVER neck size.
As for annealing. Not everyone is a PRS or Benchrest shooter. I have 8 loads on some Hornady brass that still is kicking. Fl sized every time to just fit and primer pockets are still snug for maybe a couple more. Then the way to extend primer pockets, which was easy to do. Was to start with Winchesters or CCI450s and progress to a BR4 or Fed 205m to just a 205. I haven't mic'd the primers since "pantime" but that was the sequence I used from smallest to largest diameter. Same with lrp starting with 9 1/2s.
Great Video! I had that exact argument with someone I work with. Your delivery was much better formulated. However, I hope he is watching this video and will now shut his cake-hole about resizing. Erik,... Just going to say it again: "Book" also, going to need that break in black.
Oh boy, your sure stirring the pot this time. Good job! I even learned some too. Thanks
Thank you, for your time.
The barrel maker and die maker reference SAAMI spec when they make their product. The reloader has the latitude to adjust shoulder bump. MOST cartridges are tapered, this gives the reloader the needed latitude to adjust shoulder bump during the reloading process. There fore, FL'd cartridges are SAAMI by design and definition. What's the problem?
By the arguments definition, then neck sized brass is not SAAMI. Excluding Wildcat ammo, did I miss something?
I think the argument is not so much in the practices used, but in the definitions used to describe the practices of resizing. The term FL sizing is and always has been defined as sizing brass back to its original dimensions. SAAMI defines it this way. The original dimensions are factory specs which are around SAAMI min dimensions. For my 40 years of hand loading this has been my understanding, and I’ve yet to find a manual or or other source that says differently. The practice of bumping the shoulder has always been understood as partial resizing. But apparently partial resizing no longer exists and there is only FL sizing and neck sizing now? I’m not sure who changed the definitions and thereby confounded the discussion?
Great information, Erik. Many shooters fail in the common sense aspect of loading.
Your 100% correct and now I get it. I wish you’d have some 7mm rem mag advise because I’ve spent a lot of time chasing my tail and shooting out good barrels but slowly watching your videos I’m getting there thanks Erik
Use that process to resize your cartridges so they headspace off the shoulder instead of the belt. I had an old Winchester in 300WM that couldn't hold a 3" group at 100 yards but a benchrest shooter friend of mine showed me how to measure and resize properly for that particular rifle and it made all the difference.
Awesome video man. very well explained. My friends are going to shit themselves when i show them this. They are always on my ass about the way I size brass because I only bump the shoulder 3 or 4 thou for my AR but I have never had a feeding or function problem. Thanx a lot for taking the time to make these videos.
It’s so nice learning from a master
Also, with "no question ask FL sizing"
I checked my .223 REM brass yeserday, that was sized with a regular RCBS FL and a RCBS SB X-Die, both sized on shell holder contact to -5 thou, so, so much for "bringing the case to spec" :-)
What sort of goose argues with Erik Cortina......
Awesome info man love your content definitely helped me out heaps getting back into reloading use it for both my work guns and my long range gun works awesome 👌🏻
I want Eric to elaborate “a whole lot, more“ on “fully resizing“.
I understand what he and others are saying about consistency, but to me and most of the people I’ve corresponded with that have reloaded since the early 1980s, Are confused and think full length resizing undoes what “fire forming“ accomplishes.
A lot of reloading companies I’ve corresponded with also agree, Eric needs to elaborate a whole lot more on this topic🤔
Starting with virgin brass first firing in your rifle fire formed the brass. Once the brass is fire formed/Custom sized to your chamber, I was always under the impression, bumping her shoulder back approximately 2000, neck,
sizing on the inside & out of the case, and possibly turning the neck was the way to go.
The magic of SAAMI specs are that they fit ANY gun chambered correctly in a specific round. The down side is that it's not optimal for YOUR gun in a specific caliber. There's a trade off of accuracy (and brass life) for the rounds being universal in nature.
As an example on a reloading forum I'm on one guy was talking about having to bore the neck of a sizing die out so that he could resize a bunch of 223 (a few thousand rounds) he'd loaded up so that he could shoot it. The rounds worked fine in the varmit rifles he'd sold but wouldn't fit his other guns as sized.
That’s the glory of FL bushing dies.
Erik you know your stuff, I just learned a little from this vid, I would love to talk to you some day brother
What amazes me is that most of these people will spend a lot of money to screw around with their brass and just ignore the rifle they had "Built". You can make a reamer to fit your dies. I did that with an 8x57 once. See if you can follow this: Fire some brass, FL resize and trim. This is used for your reamer dimension and headspace dimension. After reloading this brass fire in your chamber and FL resize. None of the brass I fired this way in the 8x57 grew more than .001 in OAL after firing. I never followed the paper punching crowd, but it seems a backwards way to accurize your brass. With the new CNC tool grinders, it would have to be easier to make an accurate reamer.
Thank You so much for sharing the importance of actual specs and how wrong it can go just by thinking the gun will hold your firecracker the you invented with loading equipment. People need to be careful.
The lower drawing is the dimensions and tolerances for the chamber itself. The upper drawing is for the cartridge/ brass, and is what should be maintained during reloading.
Very nice information Eric. Thank you for the great video and sharing this. Tight groups my friend. Stay well.
Erik! I would like to see you go to an ammo manufacture plant to quiz them on all the arguments about case sizing etc. I think that would be fun!
Ah! Now I see what you're saying! Good info!
Beautiful job explaining these concepts. Thank you!
280ai chamber spec is 2.140-2.150. Most new brass offerings measure around 2.135, and I’ve even measured them smaller than that. (Don’t get me started on Nosler brass 😅) One thing I’ve noticed is not all brass fully forms or grows to size on 1 firing. I had 2 firings on Peterson brass before I hit the MINIMUM. I know you preach against neck sizing. But I won’t full length size or bump till my brass grows to the exact chamber size. I neck size and fire and fire until my cases measure inside the min/max. Then I add my .002 with a FL size
All very true for a rimless case. Where bumping the shoulder is even more important is with rimmed or belted cases. Here I suspect the tolerances even angles of the shoulder may be much looser. They headspace of the rim or belt thickness. It may be possible with these cases that if you only bump the shoulder you may or may not fully size the rest of the case because some of them have a lot of body taper. That means the case may fit the chamber more tightly that with a full size but your brass will last a lot longer.
Bump 0.002 , add tape and doesn't fit. Good to go!
High resolution thinking to the rescue!
Math is not an opinion, and this video sorts out a debate that need not be a debate.
Erik you declare in this vid that fire-formed brass is within SAAMI spec because the rifle chamber dimensions are within SAAMI spec. That holds true of all specs bar case length [L3 in CIP designation]. The neck extrudes with each firing and will need trimming at some point. I am not taking issue with your broad points in this vid, but the case trim requirement is probably worth an inclusion in a presentation on sizing, particularly as the other comments here suggest quite a lot of new reloaders tracking your tutorials.
I used to over work my brass a lot. I was talking to my gunsmith about reloading and setting up dies and what not and he turned me on to the way I do it now.
I take whatever I'm loading for at the moment with a case from that chamber and size it down until it fits that chamber. Then I lock it down and go.
Ideally one would use the correct measuring tools but this has worked well for me.
Hello from Australia mate !
The best thing to do is to get a custom ground reamer to minimúm SAMMY or .002 - 003 larger than virgin Full length resized cases of the brand of brass you plan to reload . The case neck and base of the case above extractor groove is the most important measurements to me. Only like to clean up case necks with out heavy brass removal like a tight neck plus I do not like base of the case with a bulge after only one firing. Your gunsmith can give you a tight head space. The full length die should size the case just enough to fit the chamber of your rifle with out any force on bolt closure.
Thanks Eric,I will sleep less dump tonight,really understand the meaning of saami now.
I started bumping the shoulder of my 243 about 2-3 thou and what do ya know, my groups shrank by a 1/3 on average. Great info sir!
By reloading i was really impressed to learn that brass cases could get slightly larger than the chamber after firing. What was hard to believe is that with highest pressures, chamber, brass but also bolt tenon 😨 stretch. After firing, the bolt tenons and the chamber recover their dimensions but the brass doesnt come back to this chamber size exactly. Otherwise the cases would still chamber easily and wouldn't require any FL resizing.
Good information Emilio
Thanks for the video. You do a good good job of explaining the details. I've learned a lot from you.
Yes. You clarified quite a bit.
Thank you for the no _ull _hit facts. We need someone like you on the net to keep the facts straight. 👍
Hi Erik
Great video Mate very easily understood thank you, Steve from Australia