How to Setup a Full length Sizing Die - Easy and Accurate
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- Опубліковано 19 лют 2022
- In this video I show several methods of setting up a Full length sizing die. I show my preferred method of .002" of bump and how to determine the proper dimensions. I also show what can happen if you just set the die and don't measure.
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Im still a little unsure how to run my redding competition dies. So I have a fl sizer and a neck die that I have SAC bushings for. I FL size first then neck size? And the micrometer on the neck sizer for neck sizing depth. Haven't been able to find any info in this. Help. Lol.
You said that you use the D-400 for the body comparator but on the hornady web site they recommended the C-375. Did i miss something
Great video. I really like your approach of finding data, and appreciate you leaving it up on screen for a longer period of time.
Good info, I just take fired clean cases, punch the primer out then keep setting the shoulder back untill the lever or bolt just closes easy, then give it touch more. And then run all cases through the die.
I recently started using the Hornaday comparator system. What a wake up call !
I’m going to start using witness marks on my sizing dies. Great video as always!
Great video, when I do mine, I go in to the shell holder, and actually screw it out 1/4 turn, and slowly move it down until I get the desired bump.
That’s good to know! 🤡
Thanks for the video brother, see you on the next one,this will help many folks including me great info.
Whenever I want to get into reloading it’s videos like this that throw me off…so technical and behind every second sentence it feals like the narrator means „if you don’t do this perfectly, your gun will blow up an you will certainly die..“
Back in the day reloading involved only 2 tests.
1. would the bolt close with a resized case in the chamber? and 2. would the bolt close on the cartridge in the chamber with the bullet seated.?
Less than ideal to be sure, but no guns were blown up.
Making same reloads that won't blow up your gun is very simple.
I was lucky to start reloading with a mentor. Now that I've reloaded brass a few times everything in this video seems straight forward. Without hands on experience, it seems unattainable, but once you start you will begin to understand quickly
Don't let this stop you. It isn't that hard unless you are going for super precision.
This was the most difficult video to understand. I can only imagine that the video was designed for people who were already reloading not for the novice or first time Reloader…!
It's called complicating simplicity. It's more that the casual reloader will ever have to know.
I set my FL Die to where it just starts to cam over. Then, I use Redding Competition Dies to determine shoulder bump. Works well because most brass brands do not bump the same and it keeps me from having to adjust the dies all the time.
Great video. Measuring is critical! I have one die that in order to bump my shoulder .003 there is a pretty hefty cam over. You need to measure it whether it is with a comparator or in your chamber.
Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
I liked the methodical way you demonstrated resizing fully, without the expander ball, and without touching the neck at all. I had taken the .002-.003” shoulder bump as a given. Now I am confident that is a reasonable approach.
BTW for an M1A semiauto I push the shoulder back .004-.005” to ensure function. That action is really hard on brass and they will only last 5 firings anyway.
Great info as always
I highly recommend the Redding competition shell holder kit. Just get your die screwed in where it's close and then start with the highest shell holder .010". Not enough bump? Use the next smallest shell holder until you get the desired .002" set back.
what if the expansion is more than 0.012'' after fied?
@@willxu08 you're lost somewhere but I'm not sure where. Rephrase that question
@@OvertonWindex what I’m saying is many or most 223 Fl sizing die will over size the brass a lot. For a full contact sized brass, one of my rifle will create 0.015” expansion. The 0.010” shell holder will size it back to 0.010” which still leaves 0.005” should bump which is too much
@@willxu08 just the small base FL sizing dies... specific fir ARs basically.
If you don't want to size everything back down to Sammi, then don't get the black box for semi auto rifles. Get just a regular FL.
@@willxu08 or wait.. you still have a confusing question.
If you want it sized all the way back down... use a black box RCBS AR sizing die... if you don't, then why would that bother you?
Wow !!!! Great Video !!!!! Excellent Job !!!! Keep up the great work.
Thank you very much!
Good video and information thanks for sharing.
Great video finally someone who explains headspace…
I'm using a Lee FLSD with an after market lock ring. I find that between the beveled edges on the ring and bottom of the die, and because of the threads causing the ring to be slightly tilted, the only way to get a consistent measurement is to measure in the same place on the ring, like in line with the locking screw. Also, i find it easier to put the square end of the caliper on the bottom of the die and using the blade to measure to the ring.
Awesome video, thank you.👍🏼🇺🇸
Very helpful indeed, thank you.
Glad to hear it!
I'd like to respectfully mention that most of the questions being asked would be solved if you read a reloading manual.
The Lyman reloading manual is my go to.
Thanks for this video 🤙🏽🤙🏽
I have that Whidden headspace measuring gauge I really really like. To me I think it’s beneficial to see what actual SAAMI value my fired cases are or are being sized to, or what value loaded factory rounds are for that matter.
Brass will change with each firing because you have more bounce back the more it has to stretch. So if the brass is new and never fired it might grow +.007 but bounce back -.002 and so it will measure +.005 Then when you fire it again it might grow another +.002 and then your brass starts to get tight at +.007. Things will change more if the brass isn't being annealed each time. Depending on the chamber you might not even need to bump the shoulder back on the first or second firing of the brass. I try not to touch the shoulder till the brass starts to get tight in the chamber. To check this I just take the fired brass and load it checking to see if it is tight when I rotate the bolt. If it is then I bump it back about .002. Now I have brass that is more consistent and doesn't require over working the brass so it will last longer. I took a long time to get to the point. To figure out what your SAAMI specs are you will have to fire the brass 2 to 3 times to get an accurate and consistent measurement. That was the point I was trying to make...lmao!
Great video👍
Thanks Kevin.
Another informative video. You mentioned that the head spacer used was Hornady D400 but 6.5 CM uses C375 I think
Man, I can’t wait till the day I know as much as you :( I’m wanting to get into reloading and don’t have anything get. Im trying to reload for a 30-40 Krag Jorgensen.
Could one use a feeler gauge to set space between the shell holder and the bottom of the die body for a more accurate setting rather than the dial caliper jaws ?
Firstly, thank you for your videos. They’ve made the jump into reloading much easier.
So long story long, I’ve just sized my first batch of brass using a Coax Press and Forster full length sizing die. I don’t aneal….yet.
I did measure all my norma once fired brass with a Hornady head space gauge and the consistency was within .0005
I set up my die and walked it in until I was at .-.002 vs my fired brass.
I then started to press the rest of the brass and the consistency on the headspace gauge was between -.0015 to -.0025
Is this to be expected without anealing or could the inconsistencies be coming from somewhere else?
Any perspective would be much appreciated. Thanks again!
Thank you for another great video. What is your opinion on using a forester full length sizing die vs a lee full length sizing die both with the expander ball removed just to size the outside of the case. Should the results be the same or different?
Wow. Now that’s Paralysis by Analysis did you ever say how to size my brass. I’m following Mr Dillon’s instruction that comes with their very expensive dies.
In my 6.5 creedmoor Tikka, the fired case measurement in the comparator is 1.5" exactly. Every single time.
I've a L.E. Wilson FL bushing die and initial set up was to just touch the shell holder on the press with the die. Resize one case and measure. Normally that will maybe bump 1 thou or none and then tweak down a little until it's at 2 though bump. Check with another piece of brass and then another for good measure. If it's all consistent then I'll just resize the whole batch.
Next time, I will just put the die in, resize the first piece of brass, check and it should be okay. If it's a 2thou bump, just resize the batch.
I'm running a Forster Co-ax press.
What press mount is your co ax mounted to that also has space for dies ? That’s awesome !
Hi, Mr. BAR.
First of all, thank you for the great information.
I am running into the issue you've mentioned, Sizing that cause the Headspace Measurement to Grow instead of Shrink. What would you suggest to remedy this?
Screw down the die more to push back the shoulder?
Even with the lengthened headspace measurement, my rifle can still chamber the cases just fine.
For Reference, it is a Bolt Action 223. And I'm using Onced Fired Remington Brass.
Thanks again.
I am new to reloading. I received once fired brass from my friend that is identical to my brass for my rifle. I measured the headspace on the rounds and they are -0.003. Do I have to resize the brass since it will chamber in my rifle? Thanks
How do you remove the expander ball in a Forster FL die? I got a expander mandrel set but can't find any videos or resources to remove the FL expander ball. Thank you
After you get your sizing die set with a non-primed case, is it OK to then de-prim & resize the rest of your brass at the same time (in the press)?
How do you set up the expander ball the best and easiest way?
What is the recommended shoulder bump for a breech rifle (TC Encore)? Getting ready to start load development for one of these for the first time and not sure what rules are action specific. Thanks all the great content.
Hi Tommy, I honestly was not aware that TC made a centerfire Encore. I would assume the same .002" would be what you would look for. I have never loaded for one of those before so you may find better info somewhere else.
.0005 to .002 for a bolt gun is perfect any more your over working the brass depending on how your rifle is chambered and a bunch of other variables....002 to.004 for a semi auto rifle seems to be the sweet spot for not over working and reliable function
Question: Do you use or just remove the inside mandrel when you resize the brass using a bushing die?
If only components could be had. The reloading equipment companies must be having lots of extra money coming in.
and 7mm rem magnum. I'm still fairly new and feel like I've wasted a fair amount of materials. My 223 loads probably aren't as fast as they could or should be but they're very accurate. My other loads are like milsurp crap, not too good of groups 308 is getting 5 moa terrible. With federal gold match etc. they touch bullets so they're good barrels. My method has been pick a medium load then go up .5 grains, 1grain and down .5 grains, 1 grain for 3 cartridges so 15 shots 3x5. I then shoot from benchrest at 100yrds and check group sizes. Whatever grouped best I make 85 of those and for 308, 25-06, 7mag the results have been mediocre. Help correct my mistakes.
One option is Erik Cortina tuner brake.
For loads, chrono. Look for plateau where a few 0.1 gr increments produce none to minimal increase in FPS. Also look for load with low ES and deviation.
(Keep in mind digital scales accurate to 0.1gr can be an entire 0.1 gr off)
Then use that load, batches of 5 rds (+/-) ea, reducing seating depth 0.002” per batch to dial in grouping.
I think both this channel and Eric Cortina give more detailed explanation.
I have handloaded for 40 years but never really a 'precision' rifle handloader. Basically.... I need cases to fit in several guns of the same caliber. Even adjusting to the normal just touching the shell holder plus an eighth.... My Remington model 81 semi auto in .300 savage and my Remington 722 bolt gun in .300 savage do not like the same adjustment. The semi auto will eat anything pretty much and is very accurate. The 722 is tight. hard to close the bolt. Some of this may be due to me using .308 military brass for my .300 savage brass I use the military so it does not say '.308' on the headstamp. I do load a lot of handgun stuff tho.
I have done this but a week ago noticed that at the setting Sako, PMC, Lapua, GGG and few others size well, Selliers do not. They also took considerable amount of force to size, some were from my friend's new LMT. I tried chambering the cases and the bolt became very sticky.
The setting can change for different brass. (Number of firings, annealed vs not, some brands are thicker) If you measured the bump and its the same it should fit unless it was fired in a chamber that was a larger diameter or fired with too hot of a load.
Annealing first makes a big difference.
Still learning. Started using an LNL AP Press and with pistol. Now I’m venturing into rifle reloading.
So first let me ask. I heard bolt action mentioned. Therefore, are these absolutely necessary when reloading for a semi-auto?
Bolt actions can handle tighter tolerances. So he was saying 2 thou for a bolt action but probably more like 3 for a semi-auto.
Maybe I'm wrong but all my dies I screw down till its touching the shell holder then back it off half a turn one of my old manuals recommended that from 1992, I use RCBS dies
👍👍
Maybe you will answer my question. I have two different AR's. One chambered in 556 and the other in 223 Wylde. The 556 bumps the shoulder up by about .006 while the 223 Wylde bumps the shoulder about .003. Do I need to reload for each rifle, or is there a way to reload one size for both chambers? Thanks.
Hey 3D, I assume you are trying to say that one AR had a headspace measurement that this .003" larger than the first? If this is the case you can size them all to fit in the smallest or load for them individually, its up to you. For some its not worth the hassle and if there is a accuracy difference do you care in this application? Hope this helps.
BAR
noob question but how do you remove the expander ball on a forster full length die?
I normally try to set back my223 with 5k. That way all 3 rifles can run it well. But my other rifles I only have one of I normally lock and mark them for2k. But after a decade of affective reloading I've learned that annealing is very important as I can't get 2ks of shoulder setback with unaneled brass.
Dang it a never wanted to bring fire into my reloading process. I might have to start shooting factory again
Well, I am embarrassed. I have been reloading for 14 years and had no idea that a FL sizing die would bump the shoulder as much as 10/1000. That is crazy. I am going to have to change the way I set my FL sizing die.
I felt dumb enough when I went to youtube to try and find what I'm doing wrong. 5 minutes in, and I now feel even dumber than before. I can't get reloads to run reliably in semiautos. Made progress w 9mm just by dropping each rd into the chamber of the disassembled pistol. But with M1A, I can't check that way. Can't figure weather I have light strikes on the primer or if I am sho...omg a million variables...ugh
I have been told that brass spring back will mess with your measurements. I’m considering doing a chamber casting but I don’t believe that’s even possible to do on a auto.
I watched this trying to figure out why my RCBS 6.5 Creedmoor dies are flaring the case mouth when I size my cases. Any thoughts? Would love to see a video on this.
Hello, a little more detail if you can manage. What dies, fired brass or new, and chance you have a photo?
BAR
@@BoltActionReloading it seems like the problem may have been with the cases themselves. The problem only occurred with lapua Brass. Federal and alpha size properly. I am reloading previously fired brass. I returned my Lee dies and purchased RCBS. Had the same problem. I ended up purchasing a neck sizing die to correct the problem. So after full length sizing, I use the neck sizing die to remove the flare.
@EverydayReloadingandShooting I have resized a lot of 6.5 cm brass in lots of brands, including lapua. Have you posted a video or a picture of the flare? Any measurements on the thickness of your cases?
Can someone please explain something to me? In the initial stages where you pull the lever down and screw in the die to make contact, I don't see how turning the die anymore controls the shoulder bump. For example, people say that a 1/4 turn more is too much and you'll get more than .002" shoulder bump, however, doesn't the shell holder BOTTOM OUT on the die, regardless?
Like, when you set the initial contact between the shell holder and die, you could then turn the FL die 1+ revolutions and it shouldn't matter because the shell holder can't push the case in any farther, since it bottoms out on the die... Please heellppp
I really hope someone answers your question because that is the exact same issue I don't understand. If I'm using a plain Forester Full Length sizing die in my RCBS Supreme press, how does the shoulder dimension change if the ram bottoms out on the base of the die?
I understand but I don’t think I could explain it very well. When you screw the die down further, past the initial point where the die and the shell holder made contact once cammed over, you’re then pushing the case further into the die setting the shoulder back further. Or think of it like this. You cam over and screw the die down until it touches the shell holder. Theoretically your case will be the same length as the top of the shell holder to the inside of the die. Now screw the die down further. When you push the case into the die it’s going to pushed up further because now there’s less distance from the top of the shell holder to the upper inside of the die forcing the inside of the die to push the shoulder back more. Hope that makes sense.
I don't quite understand the ending portion. My 223 redding die is doing the same, oversizing the brass. For some of my LMT semi auto AR15 rifle, it even bump the shoulder 0.020'' if I make the die completely touch the ramp. How to solve this? For my other dies(sac for 308win 6.5cr, redding for 338LPM), none of them will give me a shoulder bump less than 5 if I set them fully contact the ramp for brass fired by bolt action rifle. Are you saying we should simply screw the die up until it gives us the desired 0.002''-0.003'' shoulder bump even though the die might not contact the ramp anymore?
Yes. There is no magic in having the die contact the shell holder. Bumping the shoulder back .003 for an auto feed should be plenty.
The die doesn't need to touch shell holder, the directions with the reloading dies are to be sure the resized brass should fit in any chamber
That's what I do, go in until the die contacts the shell holder, and actually screw it back out a 1/4 turn, and slowly go back down until I get the set back where I want it.
@@BoltActionReloading Thanks for the reply and great video. I got this firm contact impression from those shell holder's introduction video. I just got an area419 modular shell holder and the redding competition shell holder is on the way as well. What got me frustrated is both of them will do 8k-10k extra length, but still won't fix my 15k expansion.
@@willxu08 something i remember, is to always stick with same brand shell holders. It might have been on Johnny reloading bench, but using different brands can sometimes cause problems too.
..I have one FL die for .223 Rem. If 1/8 turn after contact with shell holder bumps the shoulder around 0.009" and 1/8 turn of the die is 0.009", why not just lock the die just past this (a 1/32th turn) Would that produce a 0.002-3" shoulder bump? I use a witness marks on my Lee collect neck resizing die so the die is set consistently and this working great on group size...
My biggest mistake was bumping the shoulders on brass that wasnt fully fire formed. I never heard that you need to fire it up to 3 or 4 times before moving the shoulder is even a thing. Expensive mistake, sort of..
Just did the same thing on accident. I ran into pressure signs with a load that was perfectly fine with virgin brass and then it dawned on me what I did. I knew brass had to be fired a few times but my brain was stuck on "bump the shoulder 2 thousandths " lol
@@Dfleuryoutdoors Yep....Learning is fun. Expensive but fun.
Not sure if you did it on purpose but your inline dab bin plate for the coax is upside down. 😬
Please note : those calipers arnt accurate for reading half thou readings. So if you are getting a reading of 1.4465 , it could be 1.4465 - 1.4469 if its reading 1.4460 it could be anywhere between 1.4460 - 1.4464.
If you get some gauge blocks or gauge pins that are a few tenths from each other , you will be able to see this in action.
Just thought id point that out
I am confused, once you adjust your die to the shell holder how does adjusting your die down make a difference?, It's still touching the shell holder. ?
It gets past cam over.
@@garyh1449 still touching the shell holder.
This might seem
Like a silly question but if you take the expander ball out of the die, is there a measurement you set it to when you reinstall it. I noticed in the instructions for my Forster die that it said to avoid having it too high or it would crush the case, which is exactly what I did! Lowering it stopped that happening, but is it possible to go too low?
As you take the ball lower the case is less supported when the inside of the neck is sized and more likely to induce runout in the case.
@@BoltActionReloading thank you
For explaining that. You’re a wealth of knowledge and I’m learning so much from your videos. So thank you again
What’s your opinion on using Reddings competition shell holders!!!
My Co-Ax doesn't use shell holders so I don't have a good opinion.
Okay, so what do you bump the shoulder to on an AR 10 ?
Try whatever works.
I dont understand what to do when my case stretches after running through the die? 1.56 is what it measures after I size a once fired round.
Run die down , for more camover !
Is removing the fire pin strictly necessary when you chamber the case in the rifle?
I typically do not, but it makes feeling the sizing difference a lot easier.
Ar platforms have been known to dimple primers. Make sure no primer is seated. It may be riding high. If you get a sensitive primer guess what.
I'm having trouble getting consistency with my shoulder bump... I'll set it with a -.002 bump and will get that on two or 3 cases, then it will jump around, -.0005, to -.007 even.... It's really frustrating me as I'm shooting for case life and I'm pretty sure it's affecting my velocities let alone accuracy. It's once fired Winchester brass and a Lee pace setter die. I'm pretty sure that I'm being consistent on my case lube, I've even tried heavier and lighter amounts of lube and that did the opposite of what I would expect...
Any help would be appreciated.
Hi Jonny, are you annealing?
@@BoltActionReloading
I was afraid you were going to say that lol.
No I am not, looking at a EP 2.0 annealing machine though because I figured that might be my issue.
@Jonny Sprague no many folks do and can't keep it consistent. Don't worry about it to start with. You don't need any complications when you are starting. What are you measuring your headspace with ans is the brass all the same lot?
@@BoltActionReloading
My wallet thanks you haha.
I'm using a Comparator like the Hornady ones. They measure consistently with the fire formed brass.
Yes the first batch I did was the same lot. The second batch had a few different lots but it was about the same as far as inconsistency.
I appreciate your advice! Thank you.
@Jonny Sprague I hate to ask 90 questions but give me every detail you can stand. Press, lube the whole shebang.
Hows the data going with the Vihtavuori n555?
HI Walter I haven't loaded it yet. Its on the list. Lots of irons in the fire at the moment. Having it was the first step as I haven't seen any since.
@@BoltActionReloading Same here but I might get around to loading some up when my new brass get's delivered
Hey mate, have you ever set your die up and get 3 different types of out comes without changing the die
Basically I'm getting 3 outcomes
1, sized right where I want it
2, not moving at all
3, over sizing
And they are might be few and far between each different out come
But its frustrating because I can't figure out why
Might add I'm new to this haha
Hi Aaron, are you annealing and if so what method. (Also is the brass all the same headstamp?)
@@BoltActionReloading hey mate, yes I did anneal ( first time ever doing it ) using flame on once fired starline brass
Thanks for replying mate!
Hi Aaron, I would guess that your annealing is not consistent case to case and is causing the variation. Unfortunately, some folks don't want to hear that not annealing at all may be better than inconsistent results with sizing, but it's something you will have to decide. A manual flame annealing process is not as easy to pull off as some would like you to believe. I applaud you for checking multiple cases through your lot to find the variation.
@@BoltActionReloading yeah ok then, trial and error. It is a learning curve either way haha
I'll use the correct one for my load development
And I'll fire form them again and try again ...
I've just acquired my annealing machine ( ugly annealer here in Australia)
I may have jumped the gun doing such a big lot rather then test a smaller batch
I get all this but it frustrates me when I’m using a lee press (1st error) then Redding dies , set die to bump 2.5 thou, then next brass bumps 5 thou, next 1, next 6, next 1.5..... same brass, same firings .....talk about a way to come up with new words 🥴
Are you annealing? And if so what is your method?
@@BoltActionReloading I hadn’t on this batch (1 time fired Lapua 223) i grabbed some old brass multiple firing to measure and was doing the same thing 🤷♂️
If you don't have a super extra special calipers they are never accurate to less than one thousands...
Keep uploading!!! Become a YT god > Promo>SM !!
I don't disagree with your method at all... But I will pass along something people hate to hear, passed on to me by two Machine Tool Technology programs and a Gunsmithing program - Calipers are not accurate and repeatable to .001". They are useful for plus or minus .003". This is from machinists and toolmakers WAY smarter than me... As you say, though, if you have a process that works for you, keep using it. I prefer the more cumbersome RCBS gauges (screw together with a scale like a micrometer).
Go Texas 👍🏻
FJB
Turn it till it touches these bCk off 1/4 turn, start throwing the handle.
Yes, you do talk really fast just like me. Slow down or you will lose your audience. Being on the radio for over 20 years, it’s something I’m always reminded of and work on… just some free advice
Use the 0.75x speed setting chief. The video is already 10 minutes long, let’s not suffer any more than we have to
In this video, you sound like you're in a hurry. I like what you're saying. I guess I just need to back it up and replay several times. Maybe you could've just used the basic resizing die and skipped the go-gauge and the SAC tool. Nevertheless that part was impressive; you just lost me. Thanks!
You should slow down your taking so people like me can follow along. Too fast bro 😊. I tried to hang in but you went way to fast for me to follow along
Hello, you can try to change the playback speed to 0.75.
Yea, I’m out…too fast…
I watched it again and slowed it down to 75%. I fully get it now. Couple stops at critical spots. I know what he’s doing.
Too much jibberish to watch the full video.