Difficult Client Role Play Who Is Fishing For A Price
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- Опубліковано 5 лис 2018
- Want to know how to deal with a client that wants to know your price? How do you approach the conversation so you're not negotiating your own price down? How do you get the most money out of your clients?
In this video, Chris role plays with a tough client, Antan, on how to deal with someone that wants to know your price.
Learn more about our Business Bootcamp, designed to help you attract the right clients and grow your business: ftris.me/BZWQ3
00:19 - Antan Roleplay
01:12 - Revenue goal
01:58 - Why talk to us?
02:14 - What criteria is being used to judge who’s a good partner
03:17 - What I’m hearing from you is…
03:50 - Are you comfortable with that number?
05:05 - Does the $200k sound reasonable?
05:39 - What’s included in your budget?
06:07 - End of conversation
06:16 - Chris really knows his stuff
06:48 - I have no idea about development, none of this was technical
#ClientNegotiation #Roleplay #PriceBracketing #PricingCreativity #PriceAnchoring #TheFutur #ChrisDo
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you need some good glasses to see that joke on the website address :)
Im not gonna talk to myself in my room .. lol ..althought i know everyones listening.. but lets talk.. video call watever u prefer..but im not acting a skidzo self convo scene to a viewing % of ???? Who r uuu al.. how many r poppin dey heads out d wall..
Its not about attracting clients.. just need to inform everyone.. digitally .. personally and other ways aswel.. no ones gona say no
This interaction may seem badass to some of you, but as a marketing executive who regularly buys creative services, let me provide you with a different perspective. If a service provider whom I called began obsessing about the order in which I’m calling him vs other providers, pushing me to throw out a number (instead of explaining his unique value and wrestling with the actual challenge I’m trying to solve by buying his services) and then, when pressed about deliverables, flippantly say that he’ll send a ‘term sheet’ - he’d instantly become the last on my list. Don’t get me wrong - there’s some good stuff here, and it’s necessary because most creatives sell themselves short. But don’t forget that this negotiation style will work best if you have already demonstrated your value during the conversation, or have a strong brand that has presold you prior to it. My observation is that most people on this channel don’t have the latter, so you need to learn the former. Then, supplement your pitching and relationship building skills with these negotiation tactics.
Thanks for providing additional context. I think it’s helpful.
Can you explain more in depth what's wrong with this interaction? You may have single handedly rendered this video useless to me and that's quite frustrating.
@@MiketheNerdRanger my understanding from the long comment is this.
1. The pre requisite to apply the tactics from the video is a reputation that is known to the client or an already established relationship.
2. The tactics in the video are great...but don't let it distract you from establishing a relationship or reputation first with the client.
Think that the two points are written are similar 😅.
Either way the video is still valuable but there is pre-work that needs to be done.
Nancy Evbuomwan Well, we assuming here that the client calls the service provider not the other way around so the value is already on the service provider’s side as there must be a good reason why he calls him. If he needs just a 3rd offer and he’s not really interested, then just go away and don’t waste my time but if you’re looking for a partner who can help you out with your problem then these ‘pressure’ questions don’t seem to be inappropriate. Chris explained it perfectly saying by the end of the video that he didn’t care - you can assume from it that your assignment is not a life or death for his business. I think you’re more talking about the situation where the artist is trying to get the business, then he’s trying to conform as he has not strengths and he’s forced to play by your rules. Either way it also tells me that you don’t really value me as a partner therefore I don’t even start the conversation (if I know my value myself) and I’d question if you’re a decision maker here. No offence.
I was about to write something similar to this. My background is around enterprise software, I work with GIANT customers with a very structured procurement process and clear guidelines about the RFP process - NDAs and all the stuff and even though I love Chris' content and would love this to be real... As soon as you ask questions with that attitude and also that level of confidentially, it's prohibited to disclose numbers from other vendors even Ballparking it... the employee on the customer side could get fired for hinting things to you, let alone disclosing the numbers presented by the other vendors... the Procurement department could kill them.
Again, love the content, I try to take IN as much as I see is applicable to my industry and the caliber of my customers. But I can't treat a huge international brand with very strict processes around RFPs like I will treat the owner of 40 people clothing company in California. In other words, some concepts don't scale - but this is fine, we just need to keep it "real".
That being said, continue posting content like this you're helping thousands of freelancers to understand how valuable they are.
PLEASE MAKE MORE ROLEPLAYS LIKE THAT!!! This way is so good for learning, since i'm having fun and looking different situations wow
you got it.
Do you have any suggestions for roleplay topics/situations William?
@@JonaMGarcia How to deal with experienced clients when you need then not the opposite, like for example if I work with this guy or girl, it will influence a lot in my career and make things easier later
Yeeeesss)
I had almost forgotten how intense this was watching it unfold in person. My notes from that day alone don't show this emotion. Gracias The Futur.
Glad you enjoyed it Angel!
Love these format of videos! Like bitesize snippets of longer sessions focusing on a particular topic, thanks again Chris :)
Yeah love it
This was great. I'll try to sum it up into points.
1.Don't be the dollar store contractor. Have a price that you charge for certain work/types of clients, no ifs ands or buts. Don't bend on this or you'll always have to bend.
2.Make sure you are a fit for the client. If they are price shopping, forget it and refer someone else. If they need work you aren't willing to provide, forget it and refer someone else. If they don't know what they want or need, probe them to figure it out.
3.Don't care. Have respect for yourself and your work, and know that there ARE clients you want to work with, who will readily pay your rate and trust your capabilities. If that client isn't the one before you at the moment, no worries, you can find them and they can find you.
Disclaimer: there are extreme scenarios where you may break these rules, but honoring them will put you in a better spot.
Thanks
This was a great one, felt more realistic to what freelances face vs some of the previous role plays.
What was it about this one that felt more realistic?
you've heard these words before in real life?
@@JonaMGarcia Id say that the client was more insistent and knew more how to discuss in a way to get the better outcome
@@JonaMGarcia From the experiences I have had and still currently have. I find I get a lot of people who approach me, but are still trying to pit me against other developers. They inquire about my services but the main focus you can tell they are looking at is cost. They have no idea what the cost should be, they allude the budget question and pretty much want a proposal from you just to show the proposal numbers to someone higher up. I liked this role play because it wasn't quick, and I do think the line of questions were great in getting the client to think what it is they are looking to accomplish. Sometimes in the heat of the conversations I personally forget to ask those questions to get them to think. I cannot pin point anything specific, but I felt more of a relatable aspect to my own situations with this video than previous role plays.
@@thefutur lol not so much the words, but the situation felt more like something I have encountered vs the previous role plays. Maybe it was how long the conversation went on for.
in 7 minutes i've learned so much in a way how to deal with this sort of situation.
This and your role playing videos is making you produce great value for the viewers that will really help bring more engagement and customers.
I like how Antan handle the conversation, but I think he wasn't even tough as a real client. For example, when you asked about how many budgets they have and all this data on prices, number of companies they are talking to, etc, the client could just say: it's a confidential matter, I want to know what you have for us and how much you're going to charge for this, we are a big company and we are not gonna open these numbers for you.
Also, when you told to the client to pause the conversation and go check the data for you there's a great chance that this client would just say: you know what, fine! Let's move on (and then check you out of the list). I felt that the client was kind of tough, but you were trying to be always tougher than him! I know we can always say: this wasn't the "right client" for my company, but when we are dealing with rent, employees to pay and all the costs of a company we can't just think this way. For me this wasn't a kind conversation between a client and a company, it was tough from both sides and I don't know if that's good to make business in this kind of environment!
(Of couse, it's just my opinion).
BTW, I love you guys! I love all the content on the channel!! =D
Believe it or not, in my 23 years of running a business, once I learned how to talk about money, not one client has ever come close to being like Anton. They tell you everything that you need to know. Everything else is something we fear happens.
Has it ever happened to you personally?
When you become some needy of work, you lose all the the leverage in the negotiation.
@@thefutur I couldn't agree more that if we need money desperately all our leverage is gone! This (the client running away when you ask for detailed information) happened to me a few times when I started as a freelancer, but it was good to learn that sometimes small companies are just speculating prices on the market.
What I said can be based on a cultural bias, because I'm from a much less pragmatic country than the US, and here (in Brazil) sometimes is important to make small talk inside the business negotiation to build a nice relationship between us and the client! (I prefer the direct approach too, but here it's important to build this kind of connection with the client too).
I love how you negotiate! This kind of knowledge is invaluable!
I see her point. I would have been the customer saying, you know what 'to hell with you ', but then I would have been very curious as to why the service provider was so 'entitled, superior ' in their ways... Are they these good and am i making a mistake?! Hahahah.
But also, as a service provider i would have been like, 'dude, don't waste my time' if i was Chris, which is what we clearly saw. You cannot treat the Chris Do's od the world like the rest and tell them you are getting 'quotes'.
Wow, that was fantastic! You really have to know your stuff for such a conversation. I’ve been working on my speaking skills and confidence. Great video, thanks.
Imagine having so many requests for service that you only take who you want to work with. Its a great life 😎
People need to understand value beyond deliverables and money.
Thinking power, design and problem solving skill is often unseen yet they are such big assets which really make the difference, which actually is what people is looking for without knowing.
Thanks Chris. You're boosting me
I love how engaged the audience is and how Chris gets everyone involved by creating a safe space. My only critique of the role play is that it seemed more like a high-stakes game of poker than a constructive prospect-call in which the vendor could provide a bit more transparency on the value proposition.
I wouldn't necessarily adopt this approach to prospecting clients, but I appreciate the notion of "value-pricing" as a way to price my service based on the value I provide to the client.
Always a great time with Chris Do and thefutur!
Love the channel, been listening to your podcast past couple months some great advice. This clip specifically however is the first more realistic phone call for a small/new design business so despite being just a 7 minute video such a huge amount learned #finesse. Most other roleplays you've had were too ideal to be realistic with simple things to learn. but always teaching so appreciate it all thanks Chris! Look forward to hopefully see more difficult roleplays like this and maybe you taking on the persona of a small new business owner instead even. thanks again!
Your negotiation skills are on spot, love what you do and your videos! Wish you good luck, and God bless people like you who share their valuable knowledge with the rest of the world for free, it is better than what most MBAs offer for money. Thank you !
This was awesome to see because I have these conversations almost daily in regards to 3D printing and in the past I've wasted a lot of time sending quotes only to never hear back from them.
This is phenomenal. I’m thinking of screencapture it so I can view it over and over again. Just in case UA-cam crashes, or the world, or the universe, ...
This is great. My unrequested 2 cents: keep a room noise audio track all the way through the video, so it won't jump so much when you switch from handheld mic to room mic.
Wow this was so much like a real client meeting. Good job Guys.
Chris cleverly dodged a few tricky questions and got ONLY ONE value based price to consider. I feel Anton really had the upper hand all along in this negotiation. And in the end, the designer's proposal needs to be really strong and answered fast to be competitive because it's clear that since no work summary could be provided on the spot, the client will feel the designer is not sure about his expertise (regardless of that being true or not).
First time I see Chris not nailing a negotiation IMHO, but I'm sure he already has plans to do better next time :D
of course. Anton was a slippery fish.
If you are the buyer here, the price for web site development has nothing to do with how much extra revenue that website will generate. It only depends on the market for website development services. If a web developer tried to set his price based on the extra revenue I hope to generate, I'd tell him to take his hand out of my pocket and bid me a price that's competitive within his website developer services market.
Suzy taught me a great lesson 😄. What i forget in sales that- if you Don't know about the product, what you are selling. You can not make single penny out of it. 👍
Fascinating conversation. If the goal is to avoid naming a price, then that goal was met. If it’s to win a job against other competitors, then I have a hard time seeing how this would accomplish that.
Depends cuz it looks like the clients want the second cheapest option
This is so good. Thank you!
The advice here is solid because you make the pricing about value delivered, and not about the technicalities of the specific items he will get from you. It is really hard to break out of the deliverables to dollars translation. Thanks for doing these role plays.
Glad you liked it Scott!
Absolutely love videos like this with real dialog. Great job!
Thank you.
Watching this makes me more mature. This is gold!
"I Just Don't Care" That's Chris's Secret
It can be yours too
Good atitude to have but its an accomodated one unfortuntaely that doesnt fit the average freelance producers situation. Many of us do care because we might need to hook that client to be able to pay bills that month. Now an argument can be said for faking it and pretending like you dont care, and then make a follow up call to continue negotiations if you hit an impass but just coldy not caring is irresponsible i believe for brand reputation.
let me correct.... thats secret of his confidence
The moment a prospect shows signs of discomfort on the budget, it's definitely a good idea to attempt a pry into confirming if budget is a problem or not early on without being pushy because if budget is am issue then disqualifying the prospect will save everyone their time. Awesome content!
Awesome video .. asking questions is the best way to understand your clients .. 95% of the time your clients will tell you exactly what they want or what they need from you even if they are unsure and asking the right questions will tell you everything you need to know and how to present your service in the best possible way to close because you will find out how their mind works, what type of person they are, and what is really important to them 👍🏿🔥
He said the key word " I don't care"....in that frame of mind you can relax and just be yourself
Absolutely brilliant!
I just dont want the video to endddd😂😂love it! I wish i was there live!
These client roleplays are so helpful
Dude that was cool!!! felt like watching a thriller!!
Brilliant, as always!
Loved this one. Mostly roleplays were an easy sell but this one sounded close to realistic.
Great Work!
we will have him on more often Arif.
It never ends with these type of clients.
it never does. run!
🏃♀️🧨
Tyre kickers man 🙄
The client did nothing wrong at all. Not one single thing wrong.
@@SpiritTracker7 they’re demonizing clients for being…clients. It’s normal for clients to ask rational questions about what services will be provided for the money.
WE WANT MORE! This is just so helpful!
would you like to join us for a livestream?
@@thefutur Sure, when?
His last question about “what are you going to give me for 200k?” is the most important one. But you don’t answer it.
He as the client wants to know if you guys can help him and achieve their goals, but all you told him was can you pay us 200k, find out and then we’ll talk. I’m not saying you should give him free ideas but you should ask him more questions about his business and then maybe explain how you’ve helped similar customers in the past and know what it takes to get there...
I think it's best to say less than to give the client a solid answer over the phone that may lose you the job. If you just say we'll build a website or an app but the other vendors are offering way bigger packages for less money, you already lost by speaking too quickly. That's why he said he would send a proposal after the call so that he can build something competitively priced and within budget, but finding out if they're qualified to even send the proposal is important.
For $200k, he buys my attention. He's asking for deliverables and I don't really answer those types of questions. we are not selling widgets. We are selling thinking and problem solving tied to results. So the better question is, what kind of results can I hope for if I spend $200k. For which I have many responses for.
Killing it!
@@thefutur He already asked that question. He is hoping to double their revenue, that's the result they are trying to achieve. He just wants to know what you will be offering. He wants to feel like confident you guys can deliver.
Ok here is a question. If you have someone that wants to work for you and they ask for a $150k salary and they say they will bring in $1 million for your company. Im assuming you would be like "Ok, great! Can you tell me a little more about you and how you plan on making that happen?"
@@thefutur What about generically speaking about the process on how you tackle the problems? "We'd do a thorough diagnosis on your company, the market and the pains you are having around that sales funnel. That report would then result in an action plan based on the strategy we both agree on. For north of $200k you get my consultancy, expertise and deliverables based on that diagnostic, your brief and our ultimate goal."
Another question though, you said a better question was "What kind of results can I hope for if I spend $200k?". What would you answer to that? I mean, you already said they expect to double their revenue for the next 6 months. I feel like the client hears "pay me $200k and I'll get it done".
This works better for agencies with a bit more social proof than solopreneurs or smaller firms I guess.
Thanks for the content Chris
WOW! I hope to see more role play with this guy! he is really good as a client actor, feel so real, i get stressed haha. Tnx Futur, Tnx Chris!
he knows his clients Leandro
Love this kind of videos
I like the fact that let them off the hook to go think about it and get back to you. Others will say if let them go you lose them. Awesome
I'm just starting to get into negotiation meetings with producers and investors for my first film ans this was recommended out of the blue. Seems like I can learn a lot about negotiation in this channel.
yes you can. check out our many role plays.
Building a Futur staff training playlist man, thank you. It's hard enough to learn how to price your own work let alone explain to new staff and clients how much it costs to do this work.
I listened to this multiple times and I love the interaction. My only thought is at the end.....You're still agreeing to send even a one page proposal. I understand this was done to shorten the RP, but really, it still caved to his demand. Seeing the rest of the interaction and how you went about it, my response would be "My proposal, should you choose to work with us, is going to include everything needed to reach your goals". This does 2 things, it reinforces why he is hiring you (For the creation of a solution) but it also subconsciously establishes you as an expert that already knows exactly what will be needed to get them to their goals.
Going through this channel, the content they give make sense, if you already have a strong brand, when people know your work and value clearly. And you can actually afford to turn down clients.
If you dont have any of the above, especially if you cant afford to turn down clients, good luck.
Im glad i came across u again.. i got a vibe about u..its just some pll are more fun to talk to n deal with longterm lets put it in process..
This has been my kind of story and I knew the answer Chris finished with before he said it and I am thinking of more versions of this story.
The Movie FIRST KNIGHT with Richard Gere where his character was informing the opponent how he wins " He didn't care(whether he lived or died)
That is how the cool boys make the girls swoon in high schools (mostly)
When I was starting out, I was really worried about business and that probably hurt more than help.
but now after so many successful runs and solving things for clients, I am confident enough to be selective.
I still have a nice person inside so I do try to help out people solve their things even if it means little to me commercially.
basic motto is " don't worry too much about life, you will never get out it alive."
Chris Do, You da man! you got a nippy snippy penthouse up there!
Give Anton credit, this is the first time I see someone challenge Chris like this. It wasn't awesome because of Chris's answers and much as Anton playing the tough client.
he was great.
What I learned from this video:
1. Don't copy exactly same strategy when dealing with clients. Not everyone is on same level as Chris. What we can do is adapt based on flow of conversation and decide whether potential client is best fit for us or not.
2. Be confident in your skills and experience.
3. Get as much information as you can from potential client.
4. Don't care about the outcome. If both you and client are best fit for each other then you will get to work together, if not then no problem.
Well said
yes, this one was great. it's the same questionnaires freelancers faced every time. 👌👌👌
What are some more situations/questions that freelancers are faced with?
Thank you joe for the last question. ❤️❤️❤️
Chris just gave you the secret to confidence.. the last thing he said
It’s crazy how many “consultants” are out there wanting to do work for no money because they don’t know what they’re doing or talking about. That 20% would shock a lot of people but that’s just what the real cost for real results cost.
Amazing! Good stuff ChrisDo, keep it up brothaaa...
Thank you
Oh my, I cant believe this just made it to my recommendations! This is beyond brilliant. I wish we could watch the whole thing. Any chance youll come over to India, Chris?
Yes. And yes. Long videos are uploaded as well.
@@thefutur Im binge watching them all. I'm a business coach, not a creative, but it's incredible how the concepts apply across the board. So grateful, Chris!
I needed this! TY
You’re very welcome.
This was great. Thank you lol.
You are my role model, dude!
The guy playing the client role is sharp.
That was gangster af! lol, good stuff Chris!
Thank you.
God Bless you and your team 🙏🏽
7:34 Joe asks "Where'd you get that level of finesse? It seemed like he was throwing things at you to trip you up but you kept it calm". Anyone wondering this should look into "framework thinking". It's a technique for responding effectively and promptly to questions, even complex ones, on the fly. The gist is that you kinda structure the topic in your head so that you can anchor questions to a related concept.
tough call, well handled Chris
I'd like to see a roleplay with a client looking for ideas.
It is a very common practice in the brazilian market to have like 9 agencies pitching ideas for the same client, competing against each other for the same single job. A big waste of time and money in my opinion, but probably this is due to a supply and demand imbalance...
Yep! I call price shoppers tire kickers. It’s disingenuous to call for pricing in an effort to find the cheapest price. I have a cut and paste reply I send via text. Eliminates those people who value price over quality!
Oh man I love this guy, you're my hero HAHA
thanks man.
That was great negotiation on both sides
that loud drop in the starting can hook me up for longer videos.
The complete version of this video?..
Chris Do is dope❤️❤️❤️
This is like a Gif that ends too soon
come to the workshops.
@@thefutur If and when you do a workshop in Texas, be sure to let me know ;)
@@caacanto true
@@thefutur yes. let me know if you ever visit India
I built my entire company on these videoes! Huge love from Denmark guys!
Here is a question: In "The Win Without Pitching Manifesto" Blair Enns talks about, not writing, sending or doing anything, before the price is agreed on. In this video, Chris agrees to send over a written proposal before the job is actually secured. Am i misunderstanding something?
😂 The most smartest thing “ I just don’t care about the outcome!!!” when dealing with tough customers.
It's so important to listen.
"I don't care the outcome"
He is a talker..i wouldn't wanna risk working with him..it will be so hard to convince him that he is wrong...
Amazing stuff
My English is not enough to clearly undestand this, got an idea but I want to learn more, hope there is somebody that could do English subs, great contect as always I don't want to miss, Thanks The Futur!
As a business owner and customer, I'll be real with you this may play out in classrooms but they call it roleplay for a reason.
At 4:14, I would simply ignore the question if I were a customer. I don't have any obligation to tell you how high you are on my priority list. Phone down. Curtains. Noone will answer how high or low you are on the range-that's your job to know the competition and compete.I don't have time for that as a customer. Real life CEOs, business magnates, VCs won't even entertain these inquiries-at least not the rational ones with tons of consultants knocking on their door.
Here's me as a real life difficult client : 200k for your work. Cool, what makes you diff from the other consultants quoting 100k for the same work? Term sheet? Yeah, I have seen 10 of the same at half your price. What are you gonna come back with? Too technical I don't understand-well you should understand, then pass me to someone else on the phone that does understand.
I can go on. Unless you showed me a case study where you saved Enron or Chipotle, I'm not gonna pay you more than any other consultant out there. End of story.
More of this!!!
One thing I noticed was that you gave an estimate and was reluctant to give details about what you'd offer. How do you continue the conversation if that's what a client is adamantly focused on and is looking for a straight up answer?
I give details about the deliverables. Not about man hours.
and robot dance!!! awesome
"is that the half robot in you" now Chris actually HAS A ROBOT! OMG!
so things that I'd like to apply to my next client calls would be:
1: finding out the figures they're doing now, 1M in this case, and/or non tangibles like fitness. what they're currently losing.
2: ask if they shopped around: then say, "then you would know that this sort of stuff goes around 20% of 1M" define price of industry
3: Ask them if that price is within their budget to work with.
This dude knows his numbers.
This might have been one of the best role plays because it was a two way battle. Pivot pivot pivot.
how did we both score?
Great content
THIS GUY IS A BOSSSSSSS! WOW
Bravo!
Wow... This is amazing
Chris, that was Dope! He is so cool and half robot hahaha
maybe 67.3 % robot.
We want more videos like this one! Please!
“I don’t care the outcome” is maybe the single most important takeaway here.
Brillliiiiiant roleplay!!! Brillliiiiiant... 😎😎😎🎉🎉🤩🤩🤩🧨🧨🧨
"I'm asking the questions here."
His main strategy seems to be to dominate by assuming the authority to ask for proprietary information, placing the others in a subordinate position. If he tried this on me, I'd shut him down. I'm interviewing you, you are not interviewing me.
Fruitful conversation lol that guy is cool
Sales should be a conversation, an understanding by both parties arriving at a positive result for both parties. This is what I have done over my career, and what Joe Marcoux -
Creator of the S.O.S. (Sales Objection System) shows clients how to achieve.
Very useful
Yo this video is about to changes some life’s!
hope so. it's why we do.
Yeah Anton! You are usually invited in a competition. It‘s rare that the client only ever wants to work with you like in the example with mr Stark. How do you stand out by not being the lowest price from your competitors?
He already showed you; you show them you are interested in tailoring your response to their exact needs.