Underrated & often overlooked key to distance is the off-hand. Notice how Paul forcibly moves his left-arm & off-hand forward. It’s not flailing about or dragging behind him. This helps ensure max energy transfer.
I was just thinking the same thing. The left arm is moved forward first, engaging the left shoulder aiding in a follow through. I thought in terms of this video in the beginning of my play. Hips and lead shoulder, until later when i realized the off hand and arm really add that last bit of distance.
I love watching these ultra slow motion, and frame-by-frame videos! Slow down all these pros enough and you see proof that "pulling" the disc in a straight line is a myth. The disc only appears to move in a straight line because it's moving along two axis simultaneously. The "reachback" is simply a straightening of the elbow from the power pocket as the shoulders turn away (though some people get to that position differently). The disc is actually just being pushed out away from the chest/body, by straightening the elbow, and coupled with the hip/shoulder turn it just LOOKS LIKE it's going straight back. That's why you're told to reach away from you, not straight back, to avoid rounding. The rotation and weight shift, with the proper lag of the arm/disc brings the disc back to the power pocket by simply bending the elbow back to 90 degrees, in front of the chest - or more correctly, keeping it relaxed and allowing it to bend - in what APPEARS to be a straight pull, because the disc is moving forward and in, to the power pocket position, at the same time, while you rotate. Finally, as you continue rotating/uncoiling your hips and shoulder, the elbow simply straightens back out, in a karate chop motion. Which is WAY FASTER than trying to pull with your shoulder and/or elbow in a mythical straight line. Watch his shoulder and elbow staring as he reaches into his reachback. The elbow goes from bent, to straight out from the chest, to 45 degrees, back to straight out from the chest. Nothing more - until the follow through. Pay special attention to the re-straightening after the "hit" in the power pocket and you'll see the "karate chop" from the elbow, not the mythical "pull". Too many years of people trying to explain what they are seeing - the disc appears to move in a straight line - and trying to teach and explain how it's done - pull in a straight line, like starting a lawn mower - without really studying the mechanics of what's actually happening. Break it down. Initial speed is generated by forward momentum from the run up. That is transferred into the brace, and shifting weight on the brace transfers that speed/energy up the leg into the rotating core while it's still rotating. Rotation is is own speed, but compounds and is added onto the run up speed. While you're still rotating, you compound/add more speed by the karate chop from the arm. Finally you get the bonus kick of speed added onto the end by the snap of the relaxed wrist - the proverbial cracking of the whip. If you try pull the disc in a straight line, at least two of those compounding speeds don't compound and add to each other, they just continue to carry whatever speed you are going. This is why the timing is so important. The motions have to compound and add on to the other, not just continue through. A straight line pull compounds nothing and CAUSES rounding. If you look down from above, the disc indeed moves in a straight line, relative to the ground, but it IS NOT moving in a straight line relative to your body. Not even close.
@@colinmcmasters5819 relative to the ground, yes. Relative to the thrower's body, no. It is not being pulled in a straight line. Because it is moving on two axes, it appears to be on a straight line, visually, compared to the ground. You can only truly pull the disk in a straight line if your body remains motionless. If you rotate your body and pull in a straight line, the disc draws an arc in the air. To actually get the disc moving in a straight line, requires the disc movement to compensate for the rotation.
@@codymoreland4496 you are wrong. you have been playing for years and just haven't learnt how to use your body the right way to generate power. your friend has played for a month but he has. simple as that. this is not a magical world, the same physics apply to everyone. mcbeth is 173cm and throws 600+ft because he has perfect form.
@@faiqquit8650 and he has spent his entire life doing little else except throw discs since he was young, and he is very athletic and strong. Most of us don’t qualify for any part of that sentence
We don’t view ourselves from that angle. You can take videos of yourself; but it still comes down to having to actually do it, from your own vantage point; in real time, with a disc in your hand; without CGI lines drawn in you. And also you can have a physically perfect looking form, but that doesn’t mean you’ll be able to throw far either
Everyone in the comment sections for these types of videos thinks they are experts, as if every person in here can throw 500 ft with accuracy, and we’re all 1050 rated. The reality is, this is hard as crap; and all of us are trash. We’re all just grasping at straws trying to get better.
I wish I could do what is being shown in Pauls drive. When I start to move through my drive, I can’t remember everything I’m supposed to do. It’s like there’s already a pre-programmed system telling me what I will do instead of what I should be doing. I occasionally throw 400’ but it’s not consistent at all. I need to scratch everything and start over. I’m 52 BTW, but still, physically I feel like I could throw 450-500 if I could just get the timing and position correct.
Could you go into more detail about how he’s transitioning into his plant leg. What causes his left knee to bend inward? I have a bad habit of keeping that leg stiff and pushing forward off it.
Kind of late but for anyone in the future make sure your x-step is small so that you can keep your plant foot perpendicular to the target edit: and staying on your toes
I think the left fist starts to drive down at the same time the hips start. However the hips finish before the shoulders finish because the mass of the hips are closer to the axis then the mass of the shoulders. Think of a figure skater spinning. They go faster when they pull their legs and arms in tight to the body. People make it too complicated. The arm is relaxed from start to finish. The body is maximize coil while weight is on back leg. Shift weight to front leg without uncoiling energy. As soon as the front foot hits the ground uncoil hips, core and shoulders as a unit, and the elbow unhinges like a whip. If you break the hips disconnected from the core, energy is lost. Keep them together, yet the hips finish first and the elbow last just from the physics.
You need more hip turn, that’s what drives the knee, not trying to do it. Also might be a problem in the way the hips are turned, I’ll link a good video for that. 4:08 in this vid, ua-cam.com/video/30cUNsWOYSI/v-deo.html
You have to have the feeling of pushing off the back foot and loading into the front foot. This is a dynamic move. You need momentum. You can not just saunter up to the front foot plant and expect to suddenly have motion to turn the hips. It should be fluid. (Granted James Conrad is the epitome of running up to the front of the tee pad with momentum.) I just realized this last PM. I thought how do you rotate your hips? If you just slowly walk up the final front foot plant you have to actively start spinning. Way to many problems can happen from spinning: ROUNDING especially. I realized that if you are moving moderate speed you don't have to actively try to rip your arm through to get distance. I see what they mean by using your lower body! When you push off the back foot you are more apt to stay on the straight line with your arm. If you are just slowly walking then you actively turn your hips then the rounding can happen because you don't have much bracing against your front foot. Hope this helps. I'm going to look for more videos on bracing and dropping the back leg to activate the turn.
Ray Lee I’ve actually been listening to some cross over sports teachers who teach disc golf now saying the right pec thing is kind of a myth and not really where top pros generate the power
The reason why most disk golfers get knee pain in their left knee or wear braces in their left knee is from poor technique / poor form. I’m 100% positive that when disk golf grows, more poor technical understanding of this sport will be understood . Pro disk golf, and disk golf in general, is one of the youngest sports in existence. He is about to release on his already injured left knee UNDOUBTEDLY has unacceptable torque on it. You should see body loading, but at this point of the swing there is basically zero load left and all release. You should be holding damn near all of your power slightly through release. You should look like this at release. Not 70% through your throw. His power is spent with the disk in his hands and none of his toes pointed twords power. These are generalizations that apply to base ball, basketball, football, Olympic disk throwers use a technique that almost completely excludes knee torque. All of that will save your knee… This is a new sport, give it 50 years, they will look back on Paul McBeth and say wow this technique was wrong here here and there. They will look at all of like that…
Underrated & often overlooked key to distance is the off-hand. Notice how Paul forcibly moves his left-arm & off-hand forward. It’s not flailing about or dragging behind him. This helps ensure max energy transfer.
Good eye. I'd never really payed much attention to that, but it would really help to build that rotational torque.
I don't think he does it forcibly. It is just so loose that it naturally goes there?
I was just thinking the same thing. The left arm is moved forward first, engaging the left shoulder aiding in a follow through. I thought in terms of this video in the beginning of my play. Hips and lead shoulder, until later when i realized the off hand and arm really add that last bit of distance.
Great video! I can’t tell you how much these have helped me adjust little things that make a big difference
I love watching these ultra slow motion, and frame-by-frame videos! Slow down all these pros enough and you see proof that "pulling" the disc in a straight line is a myth. The disc only appears to move in a straight line because it's moving along two axis simultaneously. The "reachback" is simply a straightening of the elbow from the power pocket as the shoulders turn away (though some people get to that position differently). The disc is actually just being pushed out away from the chest/body, by straightening the elbow, and coupled with the hip/shoulder turn it just LOOKS LIKE it's going straight back. That's why you're told to reach away from you, not straight back, to avoid rounding. The rotation and weight shift, with the proper lag of the arm/disc brings the disc back to the power pocket by simply bending the elbow back to 90 degrees, in front of the chest - or more correctly, keeping it relaxed and allowing it to bend - in what APPEARS to be a straight pull, because the disc is moving forward and in, to the power pocket position, at the same time, while you rotate. Finally, as you continue rotating/uncoiling your hips and shoulder, the elbow simply straightens back out, in a karate chop motion. Which is WAY FASTER than trying to pull with your shoulder and/or elbow in a mythical straight line.
Watch his shoulder and elbow staring as he reaches into his reachback. The elbow goes from bent, to straight out from the chest, to 45 degrees, back to straight out from the chest. Nothing more - until the follow through. Pay special attention to the re-straightening after the "hit" in the power pocket and you'll see the "karate chop" from the elbow, not the mythical "pull".
Too many years of people trying to explain what they are seeing - the disc appears to move in a straight line - and trying to teach and explain how it's done - pull in a straight line, like starting a lawn mower - without really studying the mechanics of what's actually happening.
Break it down. Initial speed is generated by forward momentum from the run up. That is transferred into the brace, and shifting weight on the brace transfers that speed/energy up the leg into the rotating core while it's still rotating. Rotation is is own speed, but compounds and is added onto the run up speed. While you're still rotating, you compound/add more speed by the karate chop from the arm. Finally you get the bonus kick of speed added onto the end by the snap of the relaxed wrist - the proverbial cracking of the whip. If you try pull the disc in a straight line, at least two of those compounding speeds don't compound and add to each other, they just continue to carry whatever speed you are going. This is why the timing is so important. The motions have to compound and add on to the other, not just continue through. A straight line pull compounds nothing and CAUSES rounding.
If you look down from above, the disc indeed moves in a straight line, relative to the ground, but it IS NOT moving in a straight line relative to your body. Not even close.
So many people try to make things happen
Just allow them happen
If you watch a professional driving form from above, you can tell it is actually pretty damn close to a straight line.
@@colinmcmasters5819 relative to the ground, yes. Relative to the thrower's body, no. It is not being pulled in a straight line. Because it is moving on two axes, it appears to be on a straight line, visually, compared to the ground. You can only truly pull the disk in a straight line if your body remains motionless. If you rotate your body and pull in a straight line, the disc draws an arc in the air. To actually get the disc moving in a straight line, requires the disc movement to compensate for the rotation.
@@codymoreland4496 you are wrong. you have been playing for years and just haven't learnt how to use your body the right way to generate power. your friend has played for a month but he has. simple as that. this is not a magical world, the same physics apply to everyone. mcbeth is 173cm and throws 600+ft because he has perfect form.
@@faiqquit8650 and he has spent his entire life doing little else except throw discs since he was young, and he is very athletic and strong. Most of us don’t qualify for any part of that sentence
I can see it but I can't do it.
Exactly. These slow motion videos and over analysis of every single tiny detail are really not very helpful for real life
We don’t view ourselves from that angle. You can take videos of yourself; but it still comes down to having to actually do it, from your own vantage point; in real time, with a disc in your hand; without CGI lines drawn in you. And also you can have a physically perfect looking form, but that doesn’t mean you’ll be able to throw far either
Everyone in the comment sections for these types of videos thinks they are experts, as if every person in here can throw 500 ft with accuracy, and we’re all 1050 rated. The reality is, this is hard as crap; and all of us are trash. We’re all just grasping at straws trying to get better.
I went straight to the comments, had to rewatch
Great dissection!
Cool video could you possible do a forehand breakdown
I wish I could do what is being shown in Pauls drive. When I start to move through my drive, I can’t remember everything I’m supposed to do. It’s like there’s already a pre-programmed system telling me what I will do instead of what I should be doing.
I occasionally throw 400’ but it’s not consistent at all.
I need to scratch everything and start over.
I’m 52 BTW, but still, physically I feel like I could throw 450-500 if I could just get the timing and position correct.
Go to overthrow disc golf on UA-cam. Very informative. Start over.
Super dope!
Watching this for an assignment lol. I should be ok????
spot on analysis
Do you think he is favoring his braced knee and doing something differently than normal?
no
Could you go into more detail about how he’s transitioning into his plant leg. What causes his left knee to bend inward? I have a bad habit of keeping that leg stiff and pushing forward off it.
Its the hip rotation. When he rotates his hips his back knee will drop
Kind of late but for anyone in the future make sure your x-step is small so that you can keep your plant foot perpendicular to the target
edit: and staying on your toes
Cool name
I think the left fist starts to drive down at the same time the hips start. However the hips finish before the shoulders finish because the mass of the hips are closer to the axis then the mass of the shoulders. Think of a figure skater spinning. They go faster when they pull their legs and arms in tight to the body. People make it too complicated. The arm is relaxed from start to finish. The body is maximize coil while weight is on back leg. Shift weight to front leg without uncoiling energy. As soon as the front foot hits the ground uncoil hips, core and shoulders as a unit, and the elbow unhinges like a whip. If you break the hips disconnected from the core, energy is lost. Keep them together, yet the hips finish first and the elbow last just from the physics.
Wait did he experience actual shoulder separation?
How does he drive his knee? I cant seem to do this in my throw. Everyone I film does this even beginner's but I cant.
Manuel Loza ditto
You need more hip turn, that’s what drives the knee, not trying to do it. Also might be a problem in the way the hips are turned, I’ll link a good video for that. 4:08 in this vid, ua-cam.com/video/30cUNsWOYSI/v-deo.html
You have to have the feeling of pushing off the back foot and loading into the front foot.
This is a dynamic move. You need momentum. You can not just saunter up to the front foot plant and expect to suddenly have motion to turn the hips. It should be fluid. (Granted James Conrad is the epitome of running up to the front of the tee pad with momentum.)
I just realized this last PM. I thought how do you rotate your hips? If you just slowly walk up the final front foot plant you have to actively start spinning. Way to many problems can happen from spinning: ROUNDING especially. I realized that if you are moving moderate speed you don't have to actively try to rip your arm through to get distance.
I see what they mean by using your lower body! When you push off the back foot you are more apt to stay on the straight line with your arm. If you are just slowly walking then you actively turn your hips then the rounding can happen because you don't have much bracing against your front foot.
Hope this helps.
I'm going to look for more videos on bracing and dropping the back leg to activate the turn.
So if you pause at 1:34 he never gets near his right pec as we are taught all over the internet. Interesting
Ray Lee I’ve actually been listening to some cross over sports teachers who teach disc golf now saying the right pec thing is kind of a myth and not really where top pros generate the power
The reason why most disk golfers get knee pain in their left knee or wear braces in their left knee is from poor technique / poor form.
I’m 100% positive that when disk golf grows, more poor technical understanding of this sport will be understood . Pro disk golf, and disk golf in general, is one of the youngest sports in existence.
He is about to release on his already injured left knee UNDOUBTEDLY has unacceptable torque on it. You should see body loading, but at this point of the swing there is basically zero load left and all release. You should be holding damn near all of your power slightly through release. You should look like this at release. Not 70% through your throw. His power is spent with the disk in his hands and none of his toes pointed twords power. These are generalizations that apply to base ball, basketball, football, Olympic disk throwers use a technique that almost completely excludes knee torque.
All of that will save your knee…
This is a new sport, give it 50 years, they will look back on Paul McBeth and say wow this technique was wrong here here and there.
They will look at all of like that…
Oof watching his hurt knee flex while it’s trying to deliver hundreds of pounds of force directly…
Those are surprisingly small ligaments holding back some violent force… keep that In mind…
This comment aged like milk