FORM COMPARISON!! Why can I throw 100 feet further than Casey??
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- This video is packed with stuff :) We didn't really have any plans but spontaneously met up at Old Gregs private course in NH and I brought the camera along, of course! We tried answering some of the more requested tips and tricks and had a bunch of fun with ace runs and faces in the trees. Hope you enjoy!
Thanks for watching everyone!
Join the team on Patreon and support me and the channel - www.patreon.co...
Check out the best disc golf bags in the business - grip-eq.com/
Want to use the same discs I do? - www.discmania....
My socials
Instagram @simon_lizotte
Twitter @LizotteDiscGolf
Facebook @Lizotte Disc Golf
Merch and more coming soon!
Really enjoyed this one, It’s kinda like a variety show, there’s a bit of everything in it.
The shot of the day, always makes me smile. Thank you for always putting out great content!!!!!
I love the shoot of the day on this one! A father and son best moment! Blesses my heart. I have 4 sons, 3 old enough to play DG with.
Simon, at around 8:20 ish, when breaking down you and Casey, LOOK AT THE SHADOWS! It's a dead tell on what your describing about reaching to far behind. Another great vid brotha!!
Love this comparisons, my favourite content from you :D This is so helpful for me as a noob too. I can not throw far yet but I'm practising, and I feel progress from when I started to throw like 130-160 feet, to now throwing 200feet+ consistently. :D and on good shots I throw up top 260-270 feet :D Awesome content Simon, thank you !
You may potentially need to use lighter discs. If you go drastically lighter, more than like 15 g id say get something slightly more stable as well
So apparently you can explain it better. Nice work! Yeah, I see 5 main things. The 4 you pointed out, disc movement before reach back, reach back position, right foot "snap", and shoulder turn timing...and one you didn't, left foot release. The shoulder turn timing, and foot release will be what I work on a bit. Waiting for the shoulders to engage makes total sense, the longer you can delay that puts more energy into the release of the disc. I know I drag my left foot a bit, but I think if my right foot flips quicker I'll be able not do that as much. Awesome job guys. And for real, he's only 19!?! I expect to see him on tour in a year or two if that's what the young man wants to do.
Hi Simon, Awesome video.
I think the reason Casey 's disc ends up behind his body on the reach back is because he reaches straight back like (like I was taught). When he makes his power move he steps across the line which puts the disc inside the line but because he's 19, flexible, and athletic he can bend his body to let the disc pass below his torso. But this puts some of his body mass outside the line which is why he ends up with weight over his toes when he spins out on the follow through. You do the opposite. You reach out to the line you are throwing on, step up to it on your power move and effectively pull the disc in towards your center of mass. This keeps your weight inside and encourages you to rotate over your heel. Do it it slowmo and it will make sense. This should give me something to do for the rest of the summer.
The reason the views appear different is that the the camera is aimed at the center of the fairway (the line you are throwing on) not the tee pad. Your eyes want to line up the edge of the tee pad with the light dot in the gap of the trees. The center of the frame is actually behind the thrower.
13:30 - Slow-mo montage
3:27 - Form comparison
14:14 - How to do the Simon disc-flip
Right after that comparison. I couldn't get my eyes off Casey's hand when he throws. I used to have the same. Now I am focusing more on how I pull my hand. Still, my shots are too high though. Thank you Simon for all these lessons. All of the tips helped me as a beginner so much.
i know that nowadays most of us expect a basic english knowledge, so for those who understand this video is gold (thanks simon for time spend). I know a lot of persons who play discgolf and would gain so much from this video if they could understand. Was ich somit sagen will ist: Simon bitte übersetze dieses video auf deutsch und auf sonstige Sprachen die du sprechen kannst. Das wäre eine große Hilfe für die Community und diejenigen die nicht so gut englisch sprechen. Vielen Dank und grüße aus Wien.
Simon, can you do a quick vid on the importance of spin on the disc and how to maximize it?
I loved the form breakdown!! Would love to see more of that! Another awesome video!
Simon, it would be great to see/hear your form analysis from an overhead shot. Don't recall seeing that anywhere before, but I think it would provide a lot of insight into the physics of the throw. Also, slo-mo video option might provide more detail.
Really really good analysis.
He’s only 19?!?
Right!? I was thinking the same thing when he said that!!
He carries himself in a really impressive way for a 19yo person. Impressive.
He looks 19 idk why this is so surprising
Came to the comments for this
@@ptbfrch there are 19 year olds who have been in wars and then built their own homes and had kids. Casey seems pretty young but very good natured.
the homemade baskets were awesome and didn't look hard to do at all... might try making a couple of those myself
Casey is rounding. And wow is he a good golfer! At 19!
You should use the spin wheel to decide how you will putt. Straddle, turbo, forehand, behind the back, etc etc
That breakdown was amazing. You would be an excellent coach Simon! Thanks for the content brother, stay safe.
Learned the disc spin from your Instagram and have been using it ever since! Great Vid!
Paul does the same thing with the off arm driving into the body. I started doing it over the winter and it pays dividends in terms of accuracy at high power and additional power.
The optical illusion is due to the fact that ur seeing the left side of tee pad (Casey's shot) and the right side of the tee pad (Simon's shot) right next to each other. Look at left side of Simon's tee pad compared to left side of caseys tee pad. They're identical.
with a wide shot like that, even the smallest movement from wind or bumping it can shift your focal point and make the edges bulge.
16:35: Me when my friend nices my disc and it hits a tree
You guys are awesome...thanks for all the cool shots and information.
Yes, it is an optical illusion. This is due to vanishing points. If you compare the right side of the tee pad in both views, you’ll see that they are indeed parallel. It is an optical illusion because the lines of the tee box leading to the vanishing point are not parallel. When you compare the right side of the tee of the left view with the left side of the tee of the right view, you’ll notice that those aren’t parallel, which is expected after understanding vanishing points.
Thanks so much Simon! I can certainly use an extra 100 feet on my shots! 😎
Fun video, thanks Simon. Take care of that elbow!
Simon after you release the disc it really looks like your momentum is moving forward while it appears Casey's momentum actually makes him appear his momentum after release is falling back slightly but he certainly does not appear to have the momentum of the body wanting to move forward that you do.
The little toddler on the right during the shot of the day....
That's my little dude!
Looks like he is going to be in ice hockey couldn't care less of double basket hit.
@@landonmclaughlin very awesome .. I am a dad of four boys and they also play disc golf with me ! I glanced at your videos and the bald eagle deserves a ton of views was sick how you caught it flying in
I love how Casey always looks like a tippingover T-Rex with his footwork on his drives ^^ 3:03
Simon you have to fix the socks, casey's is much more stylish! :))))
nice video, thanks for the upload dude ;-)
Great stuff. Thanks.
i learned the pen flip in my summer in duisberg, and it translates nicely to the disc flip haha
Would be cool to see some 60 or maybe even 120 fps slow-mo form breakdowns. Would be a lot easier to tell what's going on ;)
agreed ... and let's see the full rip tee shots that do end up at 550' and 450', which is critical to this type of comparison.
Lol Simon is saying shot comparison while Casey is saying check out my disc tricks
That run of roach is wildly inconsistent. Its oddly impressive that Ol greg made that ace :p
Need a practice round vlog at Blue Ribbon Pines with Eagle and Cale!!
Great video
I think Casey is just releasing his energy a tad before he releases the disc. whereas you hold your energy of your body til disc is released. he's really good. this is something i struggle with - timing. big deep breath before driving helps. throwing slower for me also helps stop the issue. sometimes i think back to pitching and just absolutely chuck it. timing gets messy then my throw is even messier. lol very hard sport
I think you're dead on Simon. When Casey draws back tight to his body, the disc has further to travel to his release and his efficiency goes way down. It also explains why his shoulder is open earlier than yours at the end of his swing. I need to take a closer look at my swing now...Great video!
If really small thing makes a difference i bet that shoe you wear has also something to do with throw. Take a look Casey shoe it twist A LOT when planted and for sure takes away some support which could also reduce distance??
Great vid, you didn't notice the left leg, Simon's is off the ground and Casey's isn't at all
I remember when you used the p2 for putting the putters were white are the p1 not available in white
Thanks! :) Is it time for slow-motion breakdowns next? (i mean higher frame rate slowmo)
Wrist angle, please comment?... I've notice, unique to the "crush boys" technique particularly, the disc angle is on steep hyzer at the end point of the backswing, then as the disc is pulled through the "power pocket", the disc is brought back to flat, almost like how you might throw a roller. I feel this is a notable component of how the CB's generate such massive power with seemingly little muscle. Please comment on this Simon if you feel like that is worth noting. Also, please note the tremendous valgus force on your knee! You sacrifice your knee to huk it that far, Simon! I hope people realize how unsustainable that is. Same for Eagle's forearm ability to hyper-exterior rotate his shoulder. That form won't last long. The body can only generate so much torque, and these 550' or 600' shots are very uncanny indeed. You want healthy consistent form, so you can enjoy golfing! ;0) Thank you for helping me huk my discs a littler further today Simon! - Charlie :0)
Casey seems to use more of his upper body (the shoulder thing would be evidence of this, IMO) when throwing, while Simon uses all the big strong muscles.
Simon wunderbar had 20+ years experience of crushing a disc.
Very helpful'
👍👍👍 spectacular
Casey's form makes my back hurt
It sounds kinda silly, and I am not trying to rag on Casey, but I feel the same way, I feel like it would hurt my back. Reminds me of when I played a round of ball golf with bad form, and I hurt my back.
My back hurts anyway, but I'd like to be able to throw 450 along with the back pain
I do think form is like 80% of this but it has to be said: Having a stronger body is a factor. Can't be denied. Casey doesn't have a muscular body. I have to assume that two people with identical form would always see a gap based on actual strength. Doesn't mean you have to be a gorilla, but you can clearly see Simon has decent leg, core, and upper body muscles here, and it's silly to think that isn't going to have a big impact when performing an athletic move. I don't know why nobody ever mentions this when talking about trying to hit stupid numbers like 600ft.
Why didnt you record the form comparison in slow-mo?
14:22 for anyone wanting to learn his disc flip
Noob question. I see a lot of pros hold a second disc in their off hand when putting... WHY?
Another thing I've noticed is that Simon takes TRT, Steroids and drops LSD in his left eyeball before he throws. Casey reads his Bible and takes benefiber before his throw. BIG difference. LOL Great vids gentlemen!!
Did you say Lux link?? Where? how? And i need
Could it be that Casey locks his shoulders with his hips almost so it doesnt create as much of a chain reaction of force transfer?
16 frame forward smash
Best ever Shot of the Day.
I enjoy the tree run backflip guy.
Agreed
Sure about that? Eagle McMahon’s called roller jump up the root on the ground into the basket ace. Very well could have been Casey’s shot bc they were both there, can’t remember exactly
That shot of the day was sick
@reelkena exactly
SIMON, casey is like your partner now in these vids and contributed well to the content and view, you should throw his social medias in the description and a pop tag
He helped get casey a sponsorship with discmania if that counts for anything
The illusion is an example of the leaning tower optical illusion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_tower_illusion
This one always breaks my brain. 🤯
Wow, that is wild
Best vid yet fellas! We learned something practical AND something fun. We got to enjoy the sheer beauty of forest and flight, and see those happy faces scoring aces :) - thank you very much
Casey is learning how to be a great personality in disc golf from one of the top players and entertainers.
Thanks for the constant content simon, much love from michigan 💚
One major difference that I notice which results in the minor rounding on Casey's reach back and pull through and the difference in look of shoulder position when comparing frame by frame is Casey's shoulders are rolled forward/collapsed chest while you have more squared shoulders/expanded chest. Removing that rounding of the shoulders/collapsing of the chest could help with having a more away from body/linear reach back position and straight forward pull through
Thank you for the observation
Casey squares up by the end of the throw, which is great. I think if he started standing straighter from the beginning and being more squared up from the get-go it would probably go a long way to keep from over-rotating and rounding the disc.
He talked about that🤦♂️
It was guessed that the extended reach back on Casey was a limiting factor but I think it's actually potential for max distance in the future, if these other comments of squareness and shoulder posture are achieved. I think the true take away from this observation is actually for you Simon, that if you reach back a little further (might add 100ms to your throw) that you may actually see an improvement.
since the question is essentially “where’s the missing power?” Here’s my take: Lower body strength/athleticism. Notice Simon squats more in his walk up thereby loading his legs and glutes and maintains a more athletic posture. Casey, at the moment, isn’t doing that as much. And, whatever form critique there may be, I think it’s all symptomatic of lacking lower body strength/support. I’d love to see Casey have the ability to bomb 600+ to compliment his great woods play.
Simon makes me so happy.
Very interesting! Wow great video
I think Casey isn't getting as deep into the power pocket as you. A side view would show it better. Perhaps his upper arm to shoulder angle is collapsing a bit?
Best shot of the day ever!!!🥰
can you please give more detail of the name and location of this course?I live in MA and would love to go check it out, but BDR did not show up on my search.
The vid description says it's private. This says it's invitation only. www.discgolfscene.com/courses/Old_Gregs Looks nice, but it would eat me alive... I'm really new to the game, so my invitation would be best if came in a year or so 🤙🏽🤙🏽
Simon, you emphasize the run-up and foot placement in your tutorials. Question: Exactly how far can you and Casey throw without any run-up at all (stand still shot) compared to with a run-up (with everything else the same...disc, wind, etc)? Just how important is the run-up and footwork? 🤔 Thank you
Cool One Important. When you run up, the disc moves with you, so you are giving the disc forward momentum already. Typically, you will get more torque from your hips too. Think about it this way. In baseball, an outfielder does a crowhop to throw further and hit home plate. If he threw standstill, he wouldnt make it all the way to home plate. It’s because the outfielder will get more torque from his hips and gain forward momentum.
DAS i think he means more as a comparison. By taking footwork out we can see if simons upper half is more efficient then caseys and if the same we can see that simons footwork is what separates himself from casey
Footwork and run up isnt worth anything without timing :P
It’s a big deal. I used to be only capable of just over 300ft in my early days of playing. I had wipeout off a big jump snowboarding and dislocated my hip. For the next 4-6 months I could only throw standing still. I learned how to throw just as far and further with zero run up. After I healed I was buying new discs because everything was too damn flippy. I went from Valkyries and sidewinders to wraiths and destroyers. I was over 450 by the end of the year. I can still push 500-550 most days.
Thanks for the spin tutorial.... so cool! “I wanna be like Simon!” 😎😎😎. I’ll have to take your word for how good it feels retrieving an ace disc from the basket... 😳
I got a ace today !!
Congratulations!
Simon and Casey.
Simon "hey Casey do you want to go discing and do a vlog"
Casey "of course"
Simon "it's pretty hot out"
Casey "I know so glad summer is here" both of them man it's hot I'm gonna wear almost all black
Would be cool to see a shot comparison like that again with camera above. Might make it easier to see rounding, and would just be cool!
Look at the shadow on the tee pad. It's perfect for seeing how much Casey's disc moves and the rounding
You don’t know how deep I’ve searched trying to figure out how you do the disc flip I practiced it for a bit and kinda was doing it how you do it but this video makes me so happy awesome form comparison and finally I learn from the man himself how to do the disc flip awesome stuff!
what is the reason for doing the disc flip?
@@S4tanMW3 like twirling your pen or pencil during a test, of course
950 foot lack of movement... has to affect follow through... such a good vid to be able to see good vs great...only way to have "better" would be me in 3rd screen doing poorly
Man as soon as the tournaments start back up Casey needs to tag along with you! Hes a legit player!
10 months later hes had some good finishes!
Fun video and that shot of the day was the best so far. Take it easy with your elbow:) Gotta be ready to get back on the road soon
the perspective illusion at 3:57, simplest explanation. I reckon there's 2 effects happening.
part 1 (easy):
the two teepads are oriented the same, but the right teepad's left edge & the left teepad's right edge actually are pointing away from each other. Our brains wrongly assume the direction of the entire teepads based on that comparison (since those edges are the closest together).
part 2 (also easy but verbose):
Imagine standing somewhere with 2 teepads a few feet apart pointing directly away from you. You look at one, and it's pointing directly away from you. You turn to look at the other and it's also pointing directly away from you. Picture it in your head. Those two teepads wouldn't be parallel with each other-the one on the left would be pointing slightly left, the one on the right pointing right, in order for them both to point away from you.
When we see two teepads with the exact same orientation relative to our perspective, our brain understands that actually, they're pointing slightly away from each other. Same thing going on here. Brain sees two tees with same orientation relative to our "perspective", deduces that actually they must be pointing a bit away from each other.
note for nerds: the reason part 2 takes effect here is because the frame contains depth information. Things that are far away are smaller. If we were looking at purely isometric footage (picture Rollercoaster Tycoon 2), or just a sketch of two teepads, our brains wouldn't bother placing our perspectives in 3D space for the 2nd effect to really kick in.
I would sub to a Simon and Casey channel. It's be cool to get to know Casey better
I think Casey has to open up his shoulders early since his reach back is behind his body. If he didn't learn to do this then he would be leaving his drives severely left with proper shoulder timing. so when push came to shove he learned to open the shoulders early in exchange for accuracy. Just my guess anyways.
Simon, you are crushing the vlog game. Enjoy all the videos.
As far as i can tell, Simon achieves the power pocket better than Casey :). Great vid!
You should try a roller competition next
Simon is brilliant! The Midas of disc golf vlogging! I will stay tuned for the rest of this series as you make Casey throw 600’ too! Thank you for being awesome!
My take aways
1. casey thrust his left arm to burst some power at the end of the shot, while simon trusts the left arm to add more at thre beginning. casey’s late thrust of the left arm caused the difference in release points by driving his shoulders into that turned position rounding the disc out. it happened in one frame. i am curious if he tried to change the timing of the trust if it would improve his shot. i think simons early arm thrust his better as it allows for more time for the disc to accelerate during the throw
2. casey’s right foot might lack some mobility into supination, there’s some compensation as you see his right knee ends up in full extension, almost appears to be not in control. foot mobility exercises and some stability work could help improve his form. but without a foot, gait and 3D map assessment, I can’t know for sure. casey night just have more mobility in his thoracic spine, hips and shoulders than simon and there fore his body doesn’t reach the point of needing to supinate the foot yet. now I am curious to know if his foot supinates or pronates. i also think simon looks like he keeps his weight on his heel more to short of spin on it while casey shifts his weight more to the outside of his foot. how someone foot moves is very individual and obviously some will be more efficient than others
Moin Simon, Ich spiele seit 1 1/2 Monaten Disc Golf und habe an den ersten Tagen Videoanalyse mit deinem letzten Form-Video gemacht...400 ft👍 Ich kann's nur empfehlen
400 ft mit nur 1 1/2 Monaten ist ziemlich beeindruckend.
Optical illusion because Casey's feet hide part of the line in the corner and your one foot exposes more of the line. It's all in a perceived perspective. Also, your chin is pointed in that direction and Casey's head is more down the fairway so it gives off another illusion. Motion blur also points you in that direction. This is why instant replay for judging is not always accurate.
Swing your swing...Arnold Palmer
Hey Simon, I'm wondering if you can do a video giving tips on throwing uphill. I live in Colorado and would love to see a breakdown of your approach to this with some video examples
Best shot of the day ever!! #showmezwin!! @jomezpro
Hey Simon. I was just re-watching this video. When you were critiquing your throws, I noticed your shadows on the t-pad, showed the difference in your reach backs.
Simon. You neglected to take into account: You are bigger, heavier, stronger than Casey. Technique obviously matters a lot, but size matters too.
Nice video.
*DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SWINGS USING BASIC SCIENCE*
The difference is their Center Of Gravity when rotating to the release point. Think of a raw egg and a hard boiled egg spinning. Both rotating/spinning with the same amount of power... The raw egg spins much slower due to the COG changing as the fluid inside moves. While the hard boil egg spins around much quicker due to having a fixed COG. In the DG Swing, the fixed COG is a straight spine. You can determine this by watching Simon's trail shoulder rotate around his spine and trade places with the lead shoulder. They rotate in a more linear fashion as if they were both connected to opposite ends of a hula hoop (Drew Gibson also a good example of this). Where Casey's trail shoulder trades places with the lead shoulder, in a slight "swooping" motion. As if the hula hoop is bent towards his rear. That swoop forces Casey's spine to lean more towards his trail side, creating a fluid COG when rotating. So with the same power output, Casey loses his potential distance. Now YES, some people have the brute strength or speed to have this swoop and have big distance. However, Focusing on a fixed COG is much easier on your body and more efficient with less arm speed. Less arm speed makes the motion easier to repeat. Repeatable motion means more consistent lines and distance. All the above leads to better DG play. Great vid guys and good luck to all learning!
Is the body weight not a difference as well tho? I’m just saying.. if your 170-180 and he is like 135-145 that’s probably where an extra 50-100ft could be gained from a bit more mass
Thanks Simon. Form comparison is a great tool for becoming a better disc golfer.
Casey for Team Discmania