Star Wars: Dark Empire DESTROYS The Rise of Skywalker
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- In Memory of Tom Veitch (1941-2022) RIP
The Dark Empire storyline is one of the most misunderstood EU stories and I aim to set the record straight. The Rise of Skywalker ripped it off and dragged Dark Empire along with it, but Dark Empire deserves more respect than that.
Instead of talking about the Last Jedi's 5th anniversary (Yuck) I talked about something worth my time.
Since this is a tribute video, this video will not be monetized.
Comic Description
Dark Empire is a Star Wars comic book metaseries produced by Dark Horse Comics. It consists of a six-issue limited series written by Tom Veitch and drawn by Cam Kennedy, followed by a second six-issue limited series by Veitch and Kennedy, followed in turn by a two-issue limited series written by Veitch and drawn by Jim Baikie. The initial series is notable for being one of the first Star Wars comics to be produced by Dark Horse Comics, who had acquired the comic rights to the Star Wars franchise in the early 1990s.
Part of the Star Wars Expanded Universe, the trilogy follows events in the Star Wars franchise six years after Return of the Jedi, specifically the aftereffects of Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy. The story deals with the return of the villainous Palpatine, having successfully cheated death by transferring his spirit into a succession of cloned bodies. Other themes include Luke Skywalker temporarily succumbing to the dark side of the Force, the return of Boba Fett (who had seemingly died after being swallowed by the sarlacc in Return of the Jedi), and the first appearance of Princess Leia and Han Solo's son Anakin Solo.
The Rise of the Skywalker plagiarized this storyline HEAVILY.
Discord: / discord
#starwars #riseofskywalker #darkempire
I hope it's okay that this video is optimized for the search engine since I didn't monetize this video. My goal with this video is to give Dark Empire as much recognition as possible.
Funny fact, George Lucas shot down the Vader impersonator for Dark Empire, but not Vector Prime. And yet EU haters still try to paint him as a bastion of consistency in order to shove their opinions down our throats, lol.
Why is Bobby Fatt a Running Gag in your videos?
There was a real-life feud between Zahn and Veitch. Originally, DE was meant to be set 1yr after RTJ, but Zahn refused to acknowledge it or Anakin Solo or change his story (so Veitch moved it to setting it after the Thrawn Trilogy) as he was writing Twins for his Trilogy which he was writing at the same time. He made no secret he hated the idea of a reborn Emperor idea and took shots on it it in his book Vision of the Future.
@@geraintthatcher3076 Yeah, Zahn only cares about the story he wants to tell, not one for the larger universe. Hell, there was question from some fans late into the life of the old EU as to whether or not Zahn would intentionally retcon something, like Filoni was doing, so Zahn absolutely fits into Disney Star Wars. He also really took potshots at Kevin J. Anderson, and while the man has some noticeable flaws as a writer, he's severely underrated among the fandom. For a time, before Michael Stackpole had a conversation with him telling him to tone it down, Zahn acted as if he WAS Star Wars, the first, center, and end.
I love your commentary, saw this in an expanded universe fan group on Facebook, decided I was going to subscribe about 2 seconds after you started talking. Dark Empire ftw! #DisneySucks ✨ #LegendsNeverDie
Dark Empire did Palpatine and Boba Fett's return better than what Disney could never do right.
BOBF is so bad
Aman brother
Exactly I've finished reading the book and I'm planning on reading the others.
Yes. It. Did. To hell with Disney Star Wars.
For all its flaws, Dark Empire handled Emperor Palpatine's returnin' from the dead better than The Rise Of Skywalker and unlike The Sequels, it treated Luke Skywalker with the respect and reverence he deserved.
EU haters: Trash on the EU for being “broken” likely without even reading most or any of the stories.
Also EU haters when Disney retcons things from their own canon’s stories: “Ima pretend I didn’t see that.”
I never understood why people think this invalidates Anakin's sacrifice and thus diminishes the prequels. If anything, having read Darth Plagueis, to me, it ENHANCES both the prequels AND that novel as well, because it ties into the Sith attempt to dominate the Force and overcome death, which is what Palpatine was all about. Of course the Emperor would seek to be immortal, the Sith don't calmly accept their fates within the Force, that's consistent to George's own words on the topic, that the Jedi achieve harmony through accepting the transitory nature of the universe we live in.
Another way Dark Empire enhances George's six-film saga is that it gives NEW insights into why the Emperor so brazenly taunted Luke into trying to strike him down, as he already knew he could transfer his essence into another clone body. Think about it, to a casual-fandom perspective, it sure looks as if Palpatine is risking his life to convert Luke, which would have backfired if Vader hadn't raised his saber in a guard posture and prevented it from going clean through his head. Imagine that! Dark Empire enhances both the prequels AND the originals as well as the surrounding Expanded Universe.
Palpatine coming back as a clone doesn't undo Anakin's redemption, because he didn't do it to kill the Emperor, he did it to save his son and try and make up for the actions that destroyed his family. _That's different._ If anything, I'd say the Chosen One prophecy kinda trods a bit on the original trilogy, because nowhere was it implied or inferred that Anakin was anything more than an average if skilled Force user who went bad because he was seduced by easy promises of power, or that he turned to the dark side to try and save his family.
@@saberiandream316 Because it literally contradicts what Lucas set in stone.
@@saberiandream316
I have to disagree.
Anakin being the Chosen One was supposed to balance the force. His whole life story is literally playing out the Prophecy.
Also, you didn't pay attention to anything Obi-Wan or Yoda said in the Original Trilogy. Kenobi said that he was "the best star fighter in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior". And Yoda said "Powerful Jedi, was he"
It was clear that Anakin was certainly more than average. And once we KNEW Vader was Anakin, it should've been clear Anakin wasn't just some average skilled guy. You're smoking something if you think Anakin, at any point, was stated to just be another regular jedi.
Anakin's redemption is in line with the Prophecy of the Chosen One. He was supposed to bring balance to the force, and he did so by wiping out the fraudulent Jedi Order, and then ending the Rule of Two and defeating Palpatine. Mortis Arc explains this in an interesting way as well.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 Lucas didn't set anything in stone; Yoda says: "A Prophecy that Misread Could Have Been" .
Zero proof Anakin was ever the chosen one
@@timewarpdrive77 Lucas literally said that was in reference to the Jedi's doubt in Anakin.
"not set in stone" Try watching the "Chosen One" special released with Episode III.
As divisive as Dark Empire is, I would rather take this over what happened in TROS. Even after Palpatine's final defeat, Luke, Han, and Leia are all alive by the end of the story.
Also, nice of you to dedicate this in memory of Tom Veitch, unlike Dave Filoni.
And so are their bloodlines, still going strong even a century later, not completely obliterated as it was in the sequels.
@@saberiandream316 & Rey Renaming herself is like a Trophy Hunt.
To Disney, even when Palps died in the end, His Bloodline lives on.
@@conradojavier7547 I don't hate Rey, from all I've seen of the sequels, she seems like a nice girl. And there could be a great story there about how our blood doesn't have to define us, but what is in our hearts, and that she felt so loved by the Luke and Leia, they were more family to her than Palpatine was. Kinda like how Harry Potter preferred the Weasleys to the Dursleys. The problem is that Disney rushed the sequels so fast, even if you believe Lucasfilm when they say this was their goal the entire time, it didn't click well with people, so the execution was lousy.
@@saberiandream316 & Disney cannot make an Episode 10-12, & stuck making Too Many Shows set During Palpy's Rule.
The voice actor for Palpatine in the Audio drama for Dark Empire is the same voice actor for Palpatine in the Clone Wars micro series Nick Jameson
Wait really?! No wonder I liked him in the first part of the audio drama (haven’t listened to the rest yet 😭)
Imagine if you Replace Luke for Jake in Dark Empire, He would Easily bowdown as Palpatine's New Apprentice.
I could see that.
@@saberiandream316 Imagine Palpatine in Jake's Body saying, "It time for the Empire to End".
Personally, I don't think Dark Empire contraddicts the prophecy of the Chosen One, as Palpatine in it was a clone, a very unstable one at that. Not the original Darth Sidious. And Luke, being the son of the Chosen One, only adds to it. That said, I liked the first two books, but the third was weak.
I still liked the third for showing the Dark Side turning on Palpatine, even if it wasn’t as long as the first two.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 Weak, but not horrible. I liked Palpatine going to Korriban to speak to the Ancient Sith Lords. Shame it came out so damn early, imagine how even greater that scene would have been with the likes of Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, Freedon Nadd, -Exar Kun- , Darths Malgus, Ruin and especially Bane being there.
In fact, the Legacy comics did something like that with Darth Krayt.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 exar kun was in yavin4 not korriban learn the lore
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Oh shid, you're right ! Oh no no, I remember Tales of The Jedi and the Jedi Academy trilogy, don't worry, it just slipped my mind.
I'd rather take what we got from this story than that God awful plot JJ shat out to end everything!
Fun fact the dark jedi Sedriss is apparently a descendant of Ulic Qel-Droma
And papaltine made him almost as powerful as luke
Dark Empire is basically a case where people are turned off by the premise before actually giving it a chance. Dark Empire actually executes it's premise very well, and actually propels the characters forward. Also. I interpreted Anakin bringing balance to the Force leading to a new Jedi Order under Luke that doesn't stifle it's student's. Palpatine returning in the context of Dark Empire doesn't feel too out of place because he doesn't come anywhere close to succeeding. In the shit Disney movie's, Palpatine is basically responsible for Luke and his "Jedi Order" failing. In Legends, Anakin was responsible for the best iteration of the Jedi coming to life through Luke and Leia. In "canon", Luke and Leia are failures. Dark Empire is beautiful, and I'm glad I read it while reading Tales of the Jedi since they tie into each other.
isnt kotor and swtor part of the EU I see alot of people say palps force transfer was an asspull yet thousands of years ago sith like valkorion literally accomplished what palps set out to do
@@tyreekwright7371yes, both are part of the old EU and essence transfer was and extremely rare and dangerous ability used by the ancient sith. Knowledge of it was lost sometime after Darth Bane but at some point after Darth Plagues’ death , palpatine re discovered it
exactly I never got how people saw that as an asspull in dark empire anakin was redeemed and brought balance like he was suppose to I always figured the whole story was mainly focused on luke trying to understand why or what pulled his father into the darkside which is why he ended up becoming palps apprentice for a moment until his sister saves him @@FoxHoundUnit90
@@FoxHoundUnit90 plus he WAS gathering ancient Jedi and Sith knowledge after the purge.
@@tyreekwright7371also Darth Andeddu was able to use it to the degree that I’m pretty sure he lived in seclusion on the planet Prakith in the deep core. I can’t tell if it’s actually him or an apparition, but he appears in the Legacy comics 100 years after the movies. In his prime he existed a few thousand years before KOTOR.
Man, I TRULY enjoy your Expanded Universe reviews. You are a legit Star Wars fan and I really appreciate your content
Thank You
Great video as aways J.J. I just wanted to add that you can find the story about Kam Solusar and Luke meeting in the "Lightsider" novella, that was supposed to be released around the time of Dark Empire 2, but ended up being cancelled due to licensing issues. The E.U community just recently got their hands on the manuscript, and it's pretty good.
First the deleted third chapter of Adalric Brandl's story, now Kam Solusar's introduction. God, I love EU fans. If only they could get their hands on TFU3's early scripts next.....
Dude, Ryan, can you stop? I just want to focus on my content and not let the trolls
actions define me.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 The EU community isn't plagued by the vast majority of idiots the rest of the fandom is, given the mass appeal of live-action Star Wars. It has that classic community feeling, which a lot of fandoms sacrifice when they go mainstream.
They MIGHT Remake Dark Empire 2 & 3, with Palpatine's Emergency Apprentice incase Kylo betrays him.
At least in dark empire luke Skywalker was luke Skywalker wise extremely powerful skilled and compelling he also needed to learn everything he could from papaltine because papaltine reborn was a dark side nexus himself unlike the emasculated and humiliated Jake Skywalker in the sequel trilogy, the fact Dave filoni stole the title of tom veich tales of the jedi shows you the hack he is.
Rise of Skywalker was a remake of Return of the Jedi mixed with Dark Empire. But they replaced Luke with Rey. Of course Dark Empire is better. You have Luke in his prime not Luke as a worthless maguffin or a legend but not an actual character. Which is how JJ and Rian had him.
The Tragedy of Luke would have been cooler, if his Padawans were all killed by a Lightsaber trained First Order, & He's the Sole Survivor.
The Rise of Skywalker is like an Anime Movie in a Long Running Franchise, with Ex-Emperor Zombatine as an Movie Only Villian, & an Anime Movie is Disconnected from the Manga Canon, & Rey's Power Up with the Jedi Voice is like an Anime Power Up.
Love the conviction of your voice, true fan right here!
For me it wasn't even Palpatine being brought back what ruined it for me, but how his offspring went on the highjack the Skywalker bloodline and legacy, with the entire family now laying dead, including Ben/Jacen, as he was my favorite character. Him dying to save a name thief is a trilogy breaker for me.
Tom Veitch is a legend, he understood Star Wars and Lucas' work, Abrams and Filoni just churned out some bullshit for filling their own pockets instead.
Remember, it was still a REAL Skywalker behind Sidious' second and final downfall, not his literal granddaughter to which the Emperor already established his plan of having his spirit transfered into her through the latter's sacrifice at the blade of the former.
So what did we get from all of this mindfuck?
1. A sequel that imo can still be acceptable even with the context of the prequels, as it is the Chosen One's son fulfilling his destiny again, and where the dark is banished for good, or
2. A sequel where the dark has definitively won as the greatest sith lord to ever live now inhabits the body of the last relevant force user we know to be alive at that time, and and, get ready for it, she then calls herself by the name of the family whose lives had all been terrorized by her grandpa over the course of half a century, meaning any sequel henceforth can just as well have Palpatine be the antagonist, over and over and over again.
Well done Disney.
#notmyluke
#sequelsarenotcannon
Rey is like Ken Palpatine from Jedi Prince, and yet it should be noted that Ken just ran away when he learned about his heritage, he never usurped the Skywalker name after they all lay dead around him.
Dark empire is very good! I really like the art style of the comic and the emperor is a very serious threat unlike his counter version in the rise of Skywalker. Rest in pace Tom Veitch, I am sorry that JJ Abrams plagiarized your story and also executed it in a bad way.
At least he was still alive in 2019. Filoni did it only months after the man's death. The alleged savior and god-guru of Star Wars.
I've never believed the chosen prophecy would fully destroy the sith, my interpretation of it was that anakin would bring the balance but it was up to luke and his descendents (like his son Ben) or any Jedi that have been trained by luke would be the ones who have to maintain the balance.
That isn't how Lucas made it but to me, that is how to make dark empire work with the movies.
I prefer Dark empire story over Rise of skywalker because at least it expand on og characters more instead of tearing them down like the Disney trilogy plus if you ask me which one honoring Anakin legacy better it Dark empire considering the new republic is still around,the new Jedi are rebuilding and his children family are alive and well.
Hopefully this video will clear up the comparisons of The Rise of Skywalker and Dark Empire. They execute the Palpatine storyline in completely different ways.
Great Job, the breakdown is superb.
There is so much misconception on this story. Glad you made a Tribute to Tom Veitch at the beginning
There’s also a tribute at the end. Just you wait....
Bravo! Additionally, the EU continued to mention events from Dark Empire and show characters from it up until George sold the franchise.
Another couple of points in dark empires favour is its anakins fault that luke get's to live and become a powerful jedi, luke then finds the emperor again and kills enough of his clones to make the emperor vunerable and so in a way by saving luke he kills the emperor twice!
0:20 That could apply to most EU stories. Most of the fandom uses it to reinforce their own biases or push their agendas.
Can you do a video like this comparing AC Crispin's Han Solo trilogy to the Solo movie? The EU did a much better job on Han's backstory as well.
I want to do every single EU story I can, but the Han Solo Trilogy is not in my immediate lineup.
43:10 Ood Bnar sacrificed to make Exar Kun stall for time before he could get his hands on the Archives, turning himself into a tree for thousands of years until Dark Empire.
Exar kun still one shots him
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Yep. And Odan-Urr too
Yeah, it is really funny how Disney's Sequel Trilogy ended up being a ripoff of Dark Empire after Dark Empire was constantly brought up by Disney Star Wars fans as a reason why the old Expanded Universe sucked.
And it's a lot deeper than just the plot point of Palpatine coming back. I started noticing the comparisons with TROS, but looking back, there were so many things lifted from that book, only all of it was done worse.
I don't think this story ruins Vader's sacrifice at all. To paraphrase a comment I remember from the Lore Master channel, Vader's prophecy is still valid with Dark Empire because he saved his son, Luke. Because of this, while Palpatine managed to return, he would never be able to corrupt the Force as much as he did prior to Return of The Jedi. In the end, Luke, along with Leia and Han, manages to defeat the Emperor for good and continue his mission to rebuild the Jedi order. So, in turn, the prophecy came true.
That and the New Jedi Order hasn't been formed yet as well as the New Republic being a thing.
Dark empire to me is alright.
It makes sense for palpatine to have a backup plan.
Tho theres other EU stories that impact me more than it. Especially the Krayt Saga
Palpatine coming back didn’t ruin Anakin’s sacrifice. I know some people don’t like Swtor, but it established a huge weakness of Essence Transfer. If the caster is killed when they don’t intend to die, it massively weakens their connection to the Force. Palpatine being killed by Anakin is the reason he took a long time to return. Not to mention the reason he had such major issues with his powers from then on. Yes, Palpatine can still get more powerful, but that power comes with higher cost.
I love dark empire was one of the best triogies in the expanded universe and has lasting effects through star wars.
Star wars bounty hunter
Jango fett open seasons
Darth Plagusis
Revenge of the sith
Crimson empire
Swtor
Just to name a few
The Neti Jedi (tree) rooted himself into the ground to protect the lightsabers from an EM storm triggered by a supernova (triggered by some fanatic lady Ulic Qel-Droma tricked into doing).
Dark empire shits in the whole sequel trilogy.
The fact even with sidious saying I'm all sith in rise of the soywalker, he got easily beat by rey, Disney was too scared to show sith spirits, papaltine should have returned like sauron was in the Hobbits a formless spiritual cosmic entity made of pure darkness like he was in the eu
I know I’m clutching at straws here, but when Palpatine tells Luke that it was not the first time he had died (in Return of the Jedi) I can’t help but think that it’s true “from a certain point of view” and especially if you’ve read the revenge of the Sith novelisation or even Darth Plagueis. In both cases they are metaphorically with the latter describing how Palpatine must come close to death to appease the dark side and so it will claim him as a sort of avatar and the latter deals specifically with the death of the face of Palpatine, following his duel with Mace Windu. There’s a little part in the novel where Sidious looks at his deformed features in a reflection and muses that he will “miss the face of Palpatine.”
Do an EU Parody if Jake Replace Luke.
Y'know, that's not actually a bad idea for a video....
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 or a Force Unleashed 2 Parody, Somehow Starkiller Returns.
@@conradojavier7547 starkiller vs ashoka
It’s right up there with the Thrawn Trilogy - being a direct sequel to it. I have the comics but also an audio drama of it. It’s really good.
What I especially love about this series is we get to see Luke reaching ROTS Anakin’s skill and power, and see Luke eclipse him as time goes on. Luke is a window into what Anakin could have been, and Anakin’s sacrifice lead to a better Jedi Order being created. I feel like that should be the main takeaway from the Chosen One prophecy. Not so much a defeat of evil for all time, but the restoration of a Jedi Order that isn’t ruled by dogma. I found out that George always had a concept for the chosen one prophecy known as the Son of Suns in early drafts of ANH, which is a title that easily can be applied to Anakin considering his unique birth while on Tatooine.
Luke should have been written as an Anime Protagonist like Goku, Luffy, or Naruto.
Super Midichlorian Luke? Sounds fun.
I completely trust in JJ...To get it all wrong! Never mind The Last Jedi. That movie as it is couldn't have happened if JJ had done TFA right or even better they had just used Lucas' stories.
Dark empire luke Skywalker will one shots rey soywalker
At first I thought soywalker was a typo
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149 yeah 😆 🤣 😂
Y'know, as someone getting into the EU, I decided that I was going to skip this comic simply on the basis that it meddles with Anakin's destiny, despite being fully aware that the chosen one prophecy wasn't thought up at the time. However, you've peeked my interest and I think I might check it out. Even tho I know it's part of the EU, I'm going to approach it as an elseworld story and ignore when future novels I read mention it.
I was looking forward to this, I always I had a soft spot for the Dark Empire. Even though it has been a long time since I read Dark Empire I. Also JJ do you plan on checking out Crimson Empire? It is kind of a sequel to Dark Empire, however it follows a Royal Guard named Kir Kanos and doesn’t really much relation to Luke’s New Order of Jedi.
I had no idea had Tom Veitch passed away...
Dark empire is the real story after the return of the jedi
I didn't like that Palpatine came back in EU, but Dark Empire is way WAY better than TROS, dark empire has original ideas and great concepts
I LOVE Dark Empire. Using both essence transfer and clone bodies to try and skirt around your own mortality is quintessentially Sith and fits Palpatine to a T. Though it does make you wonder why no other Sith ever attempted it.
@@saberiandream316 yeah, and disney had to make a lamer version of that. there was another sith, plagueis, who knew about essence transfer but never attempted it because he wanted to become truly immortal by preserving his body through the manipulation of midi-chlorians and not having to transfer his soul like palpatine did
@@fizzy4877 dude he couldn't do that because his body was destroyed when vader toss him, he now can only tranfer his soul to another body or live as a formless dark entity
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 i know?
What DK did that TROS failed miserably
Pave way for the old republic
It didn't even occur to me that Dark Empire came out before the prequels. I used to just hand-wave it away as casually disregarding the 'chosen one' prophecy. But that wasnt even a thing at the time. Makes it a lot more forgivable. Power levels are a bit crazy, but considering this takes place ten years after the movies, that's probably the best time to raise stakes and power levels up to 11.
Tom veich confirmed on his Twitter that exar kun is similar to emperor papaltine reborn in raw force power potential acknowledge and skills, I think exar kun is more powerful than revan valkorion vader and caedus
I've been waiting for this it's strange that dark empire is my all time favorite of the old eu even though darth sidious is my least favorite character but it could be cuz it made Palpatine has been parodied so much(plus memes)we can't take him seriously but this story truly reminds us who he really is not funny old man but a evil entity who's goal to keep the jedi order dead and making sure sith order reigns supreme spot on review/comparison JJ man I feel like these days folks of lucusfilm trying to rip off lord of the rings al give you context next upload
Dark Empire was like an Unproduce Marvel Issue.
44:38 The guy with the Helmet is Zevulon Veers, Maximilian Veers son who defected from Empire to join the rebellion.
Dosen't Maximilian Veers make an appearance in Dark Empire?
@@TK-wk6xd I don't think so.
I found out that Maximilian Veers is in Dark Empire 2 he was demoted to Captain, and Sedriss sent him on a suicide mission on Balmorra where he died.
If I’ve learned anything from TROS it’s this: General Grievous can kill Darth Sidious. All he’s got to do is helicopter spin four lightsabers like he did against Obi-Wan and reflect Palpatine’s lightning back at him.
1 lightsaber disfigured him
2 lightsabers melts him
4 lightsabers? Dude must fucking implode and cause a mini black hole to appear
Darth Sidious’ lightsaber will make a fine addition to his collection.
Cam Kennedy is the bomb with star wars illustrations
I don't think Dark Empire is perfect but it's way better than the regurgitation that was Rise of Skywalker.
I predict Disney Lucasfilm will continue to suppress this quality EU content as much as possible. Never underestimate how petty, jealous, and censorious that incompetent creatives can be.
There's a really dope dark empire motion comic on UA-cam
For all the macro flaws of DE, it still tells a compelling story that feels consistent with OT SW.
Kevin j Anderson and drew karpyshyn are still alive to protect exar kun and revan from David filoni and Kathleen Kennedy talentless story group, ones those guys pass away r.i.p exar kun and revan
damn you Disney stealing a name and story from Tom Veitch. twice!
Yes, they are shameless.
Casuals didn't notice it, poor tom veich 😢 his tales of the jedi are trillions of times far better written than Dave filoni tales of the soy
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Them too.
@@saberiandream316 yep Dave filoni is probably waiting for Kevin j Anderson to pass away so that he could destroy exar kun ulic qel droma and nomi sunrinder
Amazing Video
Open Airlock Policy did the right thing recommending your channel
Disney chooses to can the EU… probably never read a single book or comic, & then turns around and pick & chooses things here & there- & totally disregarded the whole point of George Lucas’s work…. Hell, Lucas gave his blessing to the novel & Comic writers when it all started in the early nineties…. Dark Empire gave me alot of intrigue & wanting to hear & see more…. Disney practically pissed on this awesome work of art form & writing. 😢
Star Wars is Stuck making Shows set during King Sheev's Reign like Andor or Obi-Wan.
Next time: *Star Wars: Dark Times DESTROYS Rebels* & *Star Wars: Kenobi DESTROYS The Disney+ Series*
& (hopefully) *Star Wars: Legacy of The Force Bloodlines DESTROYS The Book Of Boba Fett*
I want to know what anyone thought’s of what I say about seeing S.W movie’s Ep.1-6 as a hexalogy instead of 2 trilogies?
Salusar is explained in a novel called Lightsider which was cancelled but released online years later. its pretty great
As far as I'm concerned, anything Disney is not canon.
dark empire is the most over hated star wars story of all time, its a damn good story. it only started to receive all its hate after the rise of skywalker crashed and burned and the disney cult needed something to deflect the critic of their precious disney. If disney did a one to one adaptation of dark empire the sequel trilogy would have been positively received instead of hated by 80% of the fandom like the sequels Disney actually created.
the legends continuity is my sequel to George's films.
I whole heartedly agree, mate.
I wonder if Mark Hamill knows about the expanded universe. because I like him to know that his character has been done better by comic and novel writers far more better than what Kathleen, Bob, JJ and Ryan did to him. the EU writers honored and respected Luke Skywalker, which is something Disney will never surpass. same goes for Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher with their characters.
He's mentioned it numerous times. He knows, he once said his son read a lot of those stories.
You forgot Dave filoni he has been doing damage to star wars since 2008
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 thank you
Must be confusing for an actor since there are 4 Star Wars universes, George's, the original EU, Filoniverse and Disney. The only place they overlap is Filoni and Disney.
@@matthewgaudet4064 Filoniverse is Disney.
You forgot to mention that Brand says that he and ALL the Jedi who came before him would keep Palpatine from returning.
Literally jailed by the entire Jedi Order.
Nothing keeps Palpatine from returning in Rise of Skywalker.
LISTEN TO THE AUDIODRAMAS TOO
You know, if we compare Dark Empire to Revenge of the Sith, we'll see very similarities that only reinforce that "mirror journey" idea from George Lucas to Luke and Anakin:
1. Both had struggles with the Darkside;
2. Both were temptated by Palpatine;
5. Both accepted the offer for sometime, with the promise to leadership an entire Empire;
6. Both betrayed his friends in someway;
7. An pregnant woman try to save them from the darkside, even it seems too late for them;
The difference is that Luke was saved, where Anakin wasn't.
And not mention the fact that Palpatine talks about the darkside being used to prolong life in both...
@@darthlucasfuu Só aguardando Dark Empire relançar aqui no Brasil (Vai demorar)
@@pvokr_brindz
Famoso Império do Mal haha
Espero que relancem no Brasil algum dia mesmo, de preferência o mais cedo possível.
@@darthlucasfuu Panini soltou ai a coleção que engloba toda a fase do império da Dark Horse, espero que ao terminar já lancem outra de outra era
Generally I agree, but there are some issues I have with dark empire; Lando disappearing for 2/3 parts of the story, how anti-climatic part 3's ending is vs part 1, and the power scaling of the emporer (he somehow has 2 eclispes, a galaxy gun, dark jedi, etc).
Maybe some of these things are addressed in the comic because I've only listened to the audio-play
Damn toms birthday is 1 day after mine. Its an honor 2 call him birthday partner.
My favorite EU story.
Excellent analysis of a fantastic comic. Even before I read dark empire I knew there was a better version of sidious returning than the third Disney trilogy movie. And after I read it, I was even more made that a superior already existed that actuallly made sidious return make sense and made it cool.
Great vid
Yea so Exar Kun wanted the lightsabers that Master Ood was gathering. Master Ood refused and knew he was outmatched, so grew into a tree, rooted in that spot for the next 4,000 years. He probably died when Ossus was deatroyed, but maybe left an acorn, and grew into a tree again over time? I never understood how he survived, but that would be my best guess
While dark empire is a good story it has its problems. 1. Palpatine being brought back no matter how it is done ruins vader' s sacrifice. Why bother killing the Emperor if he's just going to come back. Vader's one redeeming moment is when he kills the Emperor but now that doesn't matter because he didn't bring balance to the force and killing him actually just made more problems for the rebels in the long run 2. The ending of return of the jedi is also ruined as apparently the Emperor just had these planet killers more powerful than the death star just sitting there collecting dust and because of that now the empire is stronger than ever like they weren't even damaged by the second death star blowing up or the ending of the thrawn trilogy. 3. Luke turning to the dark side undermines his character development at the end of return of the jedi when he refuses to give in to temptation and now he just gives in?! While the story may be good it makes return of the jedi's ending pointless
I always wondered why the dark empire comics are considered a trilogy rather than a duology. Most series comics consist of 4, 6, or 8 issues. DE 1 and 2 are both 6 issues and EE is only 2. EE are really just issue 7 and 8 of DE 2. The 3rd edition of DE 2 includes both EE 1 and 2 but retitled them as DE issue 7 and 8.
I'm waiting for Dark First Order Show where Rey Frenemy a Fake Kylo Ren, & Fake Ben Solo is played by Adam Driver with a Beard, just like The Original Dark Empire with a Vader Pretender.
27:50 - you know *someone* is passionate about a series when they pronounce "saga" as "SAH-GAAHRRRR!" hehehe!
When to prophecy, I said it more fravor of getting the force in balance as the ultimately, the Sith destruction even temporary was enough to end sith corruption since it end that line of dark side force user with Anakin himself simple act of redemption undo long time of poison sith influence of the forcem. Likely other dark side users would arise with new challenges but never present a similar danger like rule of two sith.
Of course, if I was given a chance to writer, I would recommend Anakin Skywalker force ghost join his kids in the final battle against Sidious to finally send the sith to the abyss of death.
The prophecy only states that the "chosen one" will bring balance to the Force. It says nothing about Palpatine. Balance was brought through Anakin destroying the corrupt Jedi order and Luke creating a new order that is detached from the government. The Sith cannot just stop existing because Anakin threw one down a reactor shaft as seen in the EU with the likes of Darth Talon. So from my point of view, the concept of Palpatine returning does not contradict the prophecy of the chosen one as his presence does not cause the Force to be out of balance. And beside you could just say the prophecy was misread like Yoda theorized in RotS.
What really destroys Anakin's sacrifice and his status as the "chosen one" is Luke repeating the mistakes of the Jedi order and going into hiding only to die and leave the future of the Jedi in the hands of Rey Palpatine.
I swear... Even I could've written a much better Star Wars Episode IX than Disney...
I know I'm a year late to the party but the fact that the sequels were (probably unintentionally) a stealth adaption of Legacy of the Force should have been our first clue that they weren't going to end well. Even from beyond the EU's grave Troy Denning's fingers reach out to corrupt Star Wars.
honestly I feel like Dark Empire would've been better had Sidious waited 2 decades to return.
Plus here's ways I think dark empire Coulda been improved or how I would done it differently:
1. Again have him wait a few decades and have him do some special training in korribans sith temples.
2. when he returns his new power level is destructive with force storms destroying civilizations to get Luke's attention then when Luke confronts the emperor with the new found power and wisdom, have it be a vicious powerful energy wave battle with the 2 force titans.
3. Have palpatones defeat similar to Exar Kun defeat where all of Luke's new Jedi unite together and trap his spirit forever.
4. Change the title to: Insidious Retribution.
Actually understood why the Emperor returned in Dark Empire, the Rise of Palpatine however was a mess because they refused to change one bit in Rian's mess to allow Trevorrow to make his movie.
It might not have been that much better, but would we be as upset by the resulting mess?
Should have revealed Sidious was possessing Vader's Helmet so he was corrupting Ben and Snoke simply messed up the process of Palpatine possessing Ben.
I realize I am an outlier here, but the Dark Empire Trilogy is my favourite Star Wars story outside of the movies. Out of everything EU and Disney I've read/watched, Dark Empire and its sequels feel the most to me like a continuation of the movies. I wish the final installment could've gotten a better treatment, as what we got felt incomplete, though Crimson Empire sated my want for more. I also love how the series made Palpatine far more formidable than in the movies. The DE stories put him on debatably the same level as Darth Vitiate, which is honestly called for when the villain in question is/was the ultimate antagonist of the original Star Wars saga.
Also, I have no problem with the apparent contradiction of the Chosen One prophecy because by being the father of Luke it's still Anakin in a way who is working in the galaxy post-RotJ to bring balance to the Force. Moreover, there is doubt raised in various EU stories and even in the prequel movies themselves about the veracity of the prophecy.
I actually dislike how the EU always had to "up the threat" until it was silly. It makes Palpatine and Vader and Yoda in the movies look like chumps. Disney did keep that tradition with Starkiller base and its... somehow faster than light hyperspace laser.
If they had all these powers, it makes their movie actions utterly incomprehensible.
I don't know Vader and Palps in the EU were OP in there own way
🤡 the story need to progress, imagine luke always beating enemies weaker than vader as he grow stronger with the years it wouldn't make sense that's why Disney star wars is so boring, y'all OT faithful don't believe in character progression
(53:07)
I think you should’ve compared Sidious’ monologue to what he said/repeated from R.O.T.S in the T.R.O.S.
Everybody remembers Palpatine's return better via Poe's blunt non-explanation anyways.
@@j.j.plagiarisms7149
Oh okay
For me personally, I think Sidious’ “Dark Side of the Force is a path to many unnatural abilities.” is more memorable due to it being well-known, and I thought that it was added in because of it.
It was closer to this, and that’s why I thought it would be more of a better comparison.
His "sister / wife"... 😂👌
Fitting, huh?
No dark empire was fucking terrible too. If people stopped looking at the old EU with rose-tinted glasses they would realize most of it was laughably bad.
most of it bad? i don't think so. there's a lot of good and a lot of bad. much like current disney canon lol
Nearly 10 minutes in and I'm wondering when the video actually starts, jesus H
While I do believe modern disney is incompetent I also think they just don’t give a shit. Andor is apparently the only good thing in the franchise they’ve put out, but I haven’t watched it yet. I just can’t stand getting excited then let down again. Been burned too many times.
I was not impressed by Dark Empire. To me, it's just the Sequels without The Last Jedi.
Yes, Dark Empire is better, but only because of minor changes in context and execution.
In Dark Empire:
1: Sidious is back, like in Rise of Skywalker
But in Dark Empire, at least they explain how he survives and how we know he'll be dead this time.
They explain he had a bunch of clone bodies and his spirit flew into one of them. But more importantly at the end of the story, Sidious tries to inhabit Anakin Solo's unborn body but his spirit is intercepted by an ex-Jedi named Brand, who's dying. Brand traps Sidious's spirit inside himself as he dies, destroying Sidious's spirit.
In other words, he survived the first time because his spirit found a new body. But he for sure died this time because his spirit is confirmed to be destroyed.
It's not fantastic writing, but at least it's something in the way of a rule.
2: Sidious has an absurdly large army that the New Republic didn't know about, like the First Order and the Final Order
But Dark Empire takes place only 6 years after Return of the Jedi, and only one year after Thrawn had unified many of the Imperial Remnants, so there would still be a lot of fresh Imperials that early in the timeline. It's not great but it makes a little bit more sense than "The New Republic was in power for 30 years and didn't know about the First Order, who somehow had the money and resources to rise in the shadows, + the Final Order, who somehow had the money and resources to build their own fleet and put a planet killing laser on every ship, rose to power yet somehow the Republic and even the First Order didn't know about them".
3: Sidious forces the Republic off of Coruscant and turns them back into the Rebellion, like Leia's Resistance; it happens jarringly offscreen, and he even uses a giant laser similar to Starkiller Base to blow up the new planet they're hiding on like Hosnian Prime.
But in Dark Empire, the Republic leaders like Mon Mothma, Admiral Ackbar, Garm Bel Iblis, and Borsk Fey'lya aren't on that planet at the time it blows up, so they survive, and they're able to build the Republic anew after Dark Empire.
And, again, it's much earlier in the Timeline, so the New Republic hadn't gotten control of most of the Galaxy yet.
And the subsequent media makes up for this by showing that they DO rebuild the Republic afterwards, starting with Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy.
4: There's no New Jedi Order
But again, Dark Empire is only 6 years after Return of the Jedi, so Luke hasn't built it yet. That's infinitely better than the Sequels saying he spent decades building it only for it to all be destroyed offscreen.
5: Teleportation is a thing; Sidious creates a "Force Storm" wormhole that transports Luke to Byss, which is as hokey as Rey and Kylo being able to teleport objects between them.
This is pretty ridiculous and stupid in both versions, but at least in Dark Empire, it takes a ridiculous amount of power and it's an arcane thing only a few people like the Emperor know. It's not just some thing two kids have that they never knew about.
6: Luke "betrays" his family.
Except in Dark Empire, he doesn't really betray them. He only joins Sidious to take him down from the inside, which he does. He only turns to the Dark Side because of how harrowing the whole experience is. It's not like Anakin where he's an actual enemy of his former allies, and it's not like Luke in TLJ where he considers murdering his nephew in cold blood, after which he's completely apathetic. to Leia's peril.
In addition to all of this, there are also more major differences.
1: Luke is pro-Jedi
One of the most famous quoted lines from Dark Empire is "The Jedi Knights shall rise again!"
Unlike TLJ Luke, who thinks it's time for the Jedi to end, DE Luke is actively looking for new apprentices. In fact this is the story where he first does that (unless you count Corran Horn)
2: There's lots of ancient Lore explored
The Sequels had a chance to delve into lore to explain things like Snoke but didn't bother, with only Rise of Skywalker clumsily trying. but Dark Empire introduces Ossus and Korriban, and characters like the Tree Jedi, and Bodo Baas, and survivors. ofthe Purge like Vima da Boda and Empatojaoys Brand. That's a big saving grace for Dark Empire.
3: The third Skywalker generation isn't destroyed
Unlike TFA, which begins with Leia's single child already evil, before he goes on to kill his father, both of Leia's twins in this are just young toddlers who are good, and their futures are full of promise. And the story (or at least part 1) ends with the birth of her third child whom she names Anakin, who also has a bright future.
4: Luke, Han, & Leia are alive and well at the end
One of the most disappointing parts of the Sequels is that Han is killed by his own son, Luke dies after his life amounted to nothing, and Leia died after failing to create a successful Republic. And the icing on the cake is that Sidious outlived all three of them.
But in Dark Empire, Sidious dies for good, and the trio of heroes is still alive, with their whole futures ahead of them, Luke restoring the Jedi, Leia restoring the Republic, and raising a family with Han.
Despite all of this, I still think Dark Empire is trash (and I say that as someone who likes the Eu and thinks most of it is good). But it still rises above the Sequels for the above reasons.
You clearly didn't read those books I would rather have dark empire adapted to a anime series than Dave filoni soy cartoons
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021
I read all three Dark Empire comics.
What makes you think I think Dave Filoni is better? I never even mentioned him.
Did you even read my comment? Almost the whole thing is talking about how Dark Empire is better than the Sequels.
I still don't think it's great though.
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 He did read it, did you not pay attention? He talked about how at least it tells a better narrative story than Rise of Skywalker did.
Also, if you want adapted Dark Empire, WilkinsAnimations is doing one.
One more thing
Operation shadow hand didn't start 30 years later. Unlike Cinder, where Palpatine orders the empire to destroy the empire only for him to return 30 years later
Dark Empire isn't trash. You can dislike it but that doesn't mean it's objectively bad.
I don't think Palpatine transferring his spirit into a clone body in the OG canon negates the chosen one prophecy. Even with Anakin killing his original body, and Sidious still being as powerful as he was in the clone bodies, he was living with borrowed time with how fast his soul degraded them.
It's more likely as Yoda said in ROTS about the prophecy being misread, that Anakin bringing balance to the force was not an instant change, but a gradual one as more dark and light side users coming about to fix the issue. it was never about destroying one side entirely.
I read it as it came out and never was the greatest fan of it. It was over the top to the point of being silly and fit poorly with the rest of the EU timeline. However, it had good story in isolation and awesome sci-fi concepts. The later EU authors integrated it just as resiliently as they did the Prequels later on, but I think it would still have worked better as non-canon story. A fun read at any case.
I dislike both as it makes Anakins death meaningless but at least the comic version tried to explain...”somehow”.
He explained why the eu version makes sense
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 Since Luke & Leia are his Biological Children, His Legacy Goes Beyond his Death.
It doesn't anakin saved luke and through luke killed the emperor twice.
I just got Dark empire yesterday can’t saint 2 read it
Star Wars lightsider he made