Romania's Nadia Comaneci Era
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- What was it really like for Nadia and all the other gymnasts?
We cover it here.
Nadia Comaneci was the gymnast that put Romania on the map and solidified the Karolyis' "stellar" reputation for being the worlds best coaches.
Her dominance brought money and fame to Romania, initiating their dominance in women's gymnastics.
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🎥 Video Credit(s):
• Nadia, Bela and Szabo
• Video
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• Nadia Comaneci Documen...
• The Story of Nadia Com...
Thank you for covering this.
It's a shame that the Karoli's got away with the abuse for so long & all the others that followed.
I was able to see Nadia perform as an adult in the 90's on a tour with other US gymnasts, I don't remember if it was '92 or '96, but one of them.
She could still do a lot but it was more elegant & not as difficult skills. I was just as in awe as I was when I saw her in '76 (I was 6 & already in gymnastics, dreaming to be her one day)!!! 🧍🤸🏃🚶
The video is on youtube too
I've never heard this expression in gymnastics, but if there was a way to define it, the 70's is the Golden Age of Women's Gymnastics Worldwide.
There is a whole political context behind it, but it was the decade where we had the most beautiful presentations, I've watched several videos where experts mention that what these gymnasts did at that time is surreal because the equipment was very rudimentary, the floor was hard and the presentations had a lot of technique.
Nowadays, in my opinion, a gymnast who remembers this decade a lot is Aliya Mustafina, with elegance, charisma and skill.
When, if ever, will the Karolyis be held accountable?
Probably never unfortunately. I heard Bela has dementia now. I have no sympathy for him.
@@jay01342 If he actually has Dementia, he doesn't know it. There's nothing to feel sorry for unless he's being treated poorly by his caregivers, which I doubt.
@@jay01342 Oh I had not heard that. No sympathy here either. Just sadness for all the girls he abused who won’t see justice.
Probably never. However... in the last episode of the Heavy Medals podcast, there's a short interview with the Karolys in the aftermath of the Nassar scandal. While Martha seems calm and composed, Bela sounds like a broken man. He mumbles something like: "That evil man (Nassar) destroyed my work, my dreams, my life...". No word of sympathy about the victims abused at his ranch - no, everything is about him. Before the scandal, the Karolyi ranch was about to be sold to USAG as national team training center. Bela used to be very proud of this, and now "his dreams" are gone. Maybe this is his punishment.
@@mjamitche5245 excuse me? People with dementia DO know they have this illness. They have lucid moments and it is severely distressing for both themselves and their carer's
and now we know why abuse is prevalent in the USAG. The karolyis brought their nefarious culture with them. i will not deny that they contributed greatly to the sport but what a trade.
I love this topic, thank you shedding some light on this important subject.
Also, I’d love to see longer vids from you! You just do such a great job and sometimes I feel like I’m always waiting for just a little bit more! I’m sure you have plenty to do, but just in case you thought shorter videos were better, I think people would still watch all the way through longer ones too.
Thanks for the feedback! I'd love to post longer videos in the future. I'm still trying to get used to creating and posting steady content. 😊
Romania is coming back, not like in the past but they’ll certainly appear on team finals at WCC and OG again!
1:39 I have read the book you mentioned - "Nadia and the Secret Police" by Stejarel Olaru. It was just published in Romania, so probably it's not translated yet. I knew Nadia was closely monitored by the secret police, and still I was shocked to read about how extensive these actions were. Shout out to Geza Pozsar who reported the violence, the starvation, the abuse of the coaches (especially Bela) back then, and tried to help the girls. Some of the notes he wrote are really disturbing. :(
I wish I could read it! The articles detailing the book were shocking to read.
@SIMPSON Bart :)))) google it, speak for yourself, and keep your recommendations to yourself
@SIMPSON Bart brain washed
@@gooddaysunshine17 he's probably a paid troll. Ignore him.
@@usagtea8072 I'm sure you already know this by now, lol... But GymCastic has interviewed and partnered with Stejarel Olaru about his book and the secret police files. GymCastic is calling it Project K. Even though many details are hard to hear and digest, I feel as if the world needs to know what these athletes endured at the hands of both Bela and Marta!
Sorry about the audio! I know it isn’t as clear as usual. It’s allergy season and I’m doing the best I can. 😅
We're just glad you're back. =)
Wow, I didn't know about this! This is so well documented, I love it! Thank you for your work. It's sad how extended abuse was and still is in the gymnastics community...
Thank you for talking about this
I don't understand, given what she went through, why she has stayed by the Karolys and supported them during their USAG tenure, knowing all of the horrible things they were to putting the US girls through. I certainly don't want to victim blame, but I see her, MLR, Kim zmeskal and the rest as part of the problem with USAG. Silence is a part of the problem and they have all been silent. This was a great video, I really enjoy your content!!
Although I generally share very similar sentiments about the majority of what you've said above (MLR, Kim Zmeskal), Nadia Comaneci's situation is more complicated. Yes, she may have been the star athlete, but the Karolyi's were the coaches who produced her. Then by 1984 they'd produced Mary Lou Retton, and by 1991 they'd produced Kim Zmeskal. Thus the sad fact is they were far more lucrative than her, because it was them who built the American programme and are responsible for the American era (2005-present). So if Nadia Comaneci had tried to speak out against them she would have be *castigated* beyond belief--look what happened to Dominique Moceanu...The Karolyi's were protected, and it was only the Nassar scandal that caused them to lose said hedge of protection.
Think, she and Bart Connor have run a gym for how many decades now yet they've never produced so much as *one* national team member nor even a national champion (to my knowledge). That's not because they don't have an elite programme, it's because they know what they'd be sending their gymnasts into if they did. So as _silent_ as she might have been, she hasn't not done her part as and where she can.
But in the cases of MLR and Kim Zmeskal, they haven't been silent, they've praised the Karolyi's; Kim Zmeskal even got married at The Ranch...Also unlike Comaneci they are not foreigners who defected communism and don't want to risk messing up their new lives, they are AMERICANS, so they had a lot less to lose. But again, like the Karolyi's, they were/are protected. Kim Zmeskal had been breaking gymnasts for years at Texas Dreams all whilst maintaining an untarnished and spotless public image, but the _bad_ gym in Texas was WOGA (the _Russian_ gym)...how? Protection.
So to conclude I repeat, Comaneci's situation is complicated--very, VERY complicated. Meaning even for her to speak out it's not as easy as _just doing so,_ because imagine what might have happened (and still could) if she were to.
Nadia most likely could not afford to turn her back on the Karolyis, for many years they were quite literally her meal ticket, her main source of income, when she tried to speak up early in her career as a mere 15 year old she was silenced and forced back to them....that kind of trauma can permanently harm ones ability to speak out for years down the line, she was probably silent because she was in shock and fear (Korbut faced similar struggles and spoke out over 30 years after her olympics)
@@MD-722 I had not thought of it from that perspective, I appreciate your insight. It's a sad complicated situation. Again I certainly do not want to put blame on a victim for how they dealt (or continue to deal) with a horrible situation. The only way this changes moving forward is if USAG fosters an environment where any athlete feels safe and comfortable to speak out against any form of abuse, and feel that USAG will protect them over their own reputation.
Sis Nadia literally defected from Romania. How can you compare her to Kim Zmeskal’s situation?
My greatest wish is that Nadia gets her courage up and writes a book. If she could do this with her bestie Teodora, I think it would go a long way in healing the wounds. I know gymnastics is supposed to be for children and young teens. However, children grow up and need to hear how Nadia overcame the abuse, especial escaping marrying Nicolae Ceausescu, son Nikki, Jr. Nadia's story is one of how to survive abuse. Regarding MLR, she just had double hip replacement surgery not too long ago. Then there is Dianne Durham who was ditched for Mary Lou. Before she transcended, Dianne was writing a tell all book about what went on in the infamous 1984 Olympic team selection process. Few people realized that MLR didn't have any international experience or medals for which Dianne did. There are so many gymnasts push to the side, it isn't funny. Many have grave physical and psychological issues. MRL hip replacement is just the top of the iceberg. In Romania there are victims with injuries that lasted their whole lives and they have gotten little compensation and poor healthcare. Just tragic. I surmise that the US will eventually fall like the former Soviet Union, Hungary, East Germany and Romania. The loss of childhood and human rights violations cannot justify a gold medal.
wow I was not aware of the extent of the abuse she went through. This video deserves more views
i love this channel sooo much
As an American, I had no idea that the Romanian gymnasts of Nadia's time were enduring such horrible mistreatment! Like so many other people who were thrilled to watch Nadia's incredible gymnastic feats on TV, all I could imagine was that the coaching in Romania must have been great for the gymnasts to be able to perform so well at the Olympics. But it's horrifying to think of all the abuse happening behind the scenes. Gymnastics excellence is wonderful to witness, but not at the cost of the gymnasts being brutalized and threatened by the coaching staff!
Love this history lesson pls do more history videos!
You can tell in 1980 she didn’t have the spark in her eyes. Just looked unhappy
Thank you, very informative video.
Thank you for doing this!! However, Bela did not discover Nadia. She had a coach and was already in gymnastics when Bela saw her cartwheeling at recess. This was just one of many lies Bela told... Even though she doesn't owe anyone anything, I'd love for Nadia to actually speak out about the horrors she and the others faced at the hands of Bela and Marta.
Are you doing a part 2 to this episode?
Yes! I will post it next week. :)
@@usagtea8072 Thank you!
Some of this video seems to twist certain moments in Nadia’s life and the reasons she separated from then returned to Bella and Marta.
I’ve seen a documentary on Nadia in which after not seeing Bella for many years without her knowledge he is invited to an exhibition she is doing in order to surprise her.
When Bella is introduced to the audience and walks into the arena Nadia runs into his open arms and hugs him saying that she loves him.
The event was organised by Nadia’s husband and if Nadia had been as mistreated by Bella as this video claims her husband would certainly not arrange a surprise meeting with him at a performance exhibition.
Nadia has also stated that she became unhappy when Bella had defected to the USA and she was forced to train with a coach appointed by the communist government.
That is when she pretended (her words) to make a suicide attempt as it was a way of drawing the public’s attention to her plight and unhappiness of being separated from Bella.
The secret police were working for the communist government and therefore would very likely document false stories about how Nadia was treated by Bella as the government wanted control over her to the point that she was forced into an unwanted emotional relationship with the son of the Romanian leader.
The accusations in this video simply do not add up if one reads Nadia’s own autobiography and listens to her many interviews all of which are easily available on UA-cam.
It seems the producers of this video may have a hidden agenda and maybe are pro the former communist regime?
Would love to see the episode on romanian team
Nadia was the best of all time🎉
Can you make more of this
I wonder how Nadia’s relationship with Bella and Marta is like now? I always see her in recent pictures with them at gym meets and other gatherings. If I were her I wouldn’t get anywhere near them for how they treated me. Do you think he apologized and changed? Because I’m also curious on how gymnasts like Mary Lou, Kim Zmeskal, Chelli Stack never really spoke out about his harsh treatment and seem to love him. But others like Dominique, Phoebe & Kathy Johnson have spoke out before on how he treated them. So I’m just confused if he just had favorites or those who haven’t don’t want to speak up????? (If that makes sence)
She was probably still traumatised for many years and fearful of the power they had. Survivor’s of abuse can’t always just walk away. If she spoke out against them, who would support her. The karolyis were left to do what they wanted. Supported. No one did a thing. Blind eyes were turned for years by those in power USAG as long as medals were won. Just look what it took to bring down Nasser. Disgusting. Maybe now she isn’t scared but can’t face talking about it and wants to move on. Or maybe she was gaslighted for so long that they helped her win etc and she should be grateful to them? Who knows?!
It's not unusual for some kids to be abused while others escaped such treatment. It's like a family where there is a golden child who has no abuse yet in the same family, there is a scapegoat who gets abuse dumped on them. And in both cases the child involved has done nothing to deserve it "earn" the treatment they recieved. The Kayrolis are known for playing the gymnasts in their programs off against each other. It was a favored tactic used to manipulate the girls.
Trey, don’t be confused as some of this video seems to twist certain moments in Nadia’s life and the reasons she separated from then returned to Bella and Marta.
I’ve seen a documentary on Nadia in which after not seeing Bella for many years without her knowledge he is invited to an exhibition she is doing in order to surprise her.
When Bella is introduced to the audience and walks into the arena Nadia runs into his open arms and hugs him saying that she loves him.
The event was organised by Nadia’s husband and if Nadia had been as mistreated by Bella as this video claims her husband would certainly not arrange a surprise meeting with him at a performance exhibition.
Nadia has also stated that she became unhappy when Bella had defected to the USA and she was forced to train with a coach appointed by the communist government.
That is when she pretended (her words) to make a suicide attempt as it was a way of drawing the public’s attention to her plight and unhappiness of being separated from Bella.
The secret police were working for the communist government and therefore would very likely document false stories about how Nadia was treated by Bella as the government wanted control over her to the point that she was forced into an unwanted emotional relationship with the son of the Romanian leader.
The accusations in this video simply do not add up if one reads Nadia’s own autobiography and listens to her many interviews all of which are easily available on UA-cam.
It seems the producers of this video may have a hidden agenda.
@@peterbothwell9005 thank you, you definitely make some good points. I’ll for sure do more research on this topic!
@@treyartemov8974 ..no problem it is a pleasure to point out truth rather than promote untrue statements.
Good luck with your research and let me know how you do.
I did not expect that
I've heard interview with Nadia and she declain as the wanted to commit suicide...Also she said that she wanted to train wth Bela but the Romanian authirities didn't allowed her to do it ...that is why she drunk a bleach - to be noticed but with no attemption to kill herself. I don't know what is the trougt but Nadia often says that there are a lot of lies about her and her life.
I have also heard Nadia say that a lot of the rumours about her life and training were not true. I believe her before I would believe somebody else. She should know...it's her life.
They were awful people.Read Dominique Moceanu’s memoir “ Off Balance” A true account of what this poor girl went through also in the 1990’s.He new Dominiques dad was violent and threatened to call him if she did the slightest thing wrong.She was abused as Nadia was.Consistant with Romanian tradition Nadia served as honorary god parent for Dominique and her husband at their wedding.Both those ladies ( plus numerous others) are all victims but together are such brave, talented and courageous women
nadia the girl who coulnt sit still is the one im doing at school
Wow
When the karolyis defected their daughter was in romania...they eventually got her back but it was never guareenteed theybwould get her back
You think they even cared about her? I don't.
These people destroyed the sport. I will bet any amount of money that the amount of talent and dedication that they forced out of the sport is orders of magnitude more than the talent and dedication that survived. These kinds of people always do net harm to their discipline.
Me Nadia Olga Cindy corcoran
I am not sure why you talk and criticized things you don't know about. Yes Karolys were bribed to leave Romania for your now USA team. Yes was dirty what was done but this is what it is.
but this iisn amzing envormation
Omg....just horrible
I don’t believe this
Wow, I knew it was bad but not this bad. The media perception of eating disorders is still horrendous. Eating disorders are caused by too much histamine, which is a very important neurotransmitter (a fact that is almost constantly overlooked) Chronically elevated histamine levels can cause perfectionism, obsessiveness, paranoia, despair, suicidal ideation, self-harm urges, and can also completely destroy your appetite or make you nauseated after eating. You truly cannot treat eating disorders without understanding the role of histamine. This is why inpatient treatment facilities are almost entirely unhelpful. People who want to recover are shoved into the absolute worst environment - an environment where they have no control over the environmental allergens around them. Food allergies are something that simply does not fly in ED treatment. The "professionals" in this field believe that anyone claiming to have a food allergy is lying to get out of eating. This is exactly how you make sure people NEVER RECOVER. My anorexia just disappeared INSTANTLY and entirely when I started taking antihistamines.
Why would anyone have to go into inpatient to treat ED when all you have to do is pop a Cialis?
Seriously? Antihistamines and suddenly your mind completely switched?
No.
Don't spread false information, it's both dangerous and ignorant.
When do you think USA will fall from dominance?
I don’t think it’s something that can be timed. At least not right now.
It seems like a well oiled machine that isn’t running out of steam any time soon.
Some countries are turning out more competitive girls and are trying to catch up.
I guess we’ll have a better picture at world’s! 😀
@@usagtea8072 i think it’s starting to
@@idgon09 Well, the Russian women were best on the day that counted. I hope their win will inspire more to join the sport in their home country. It's been said that their number of top gymnasts has been declining in recent years. More gymnasts is good for the sport, and I love what the Russians bring to it.
It already is