The Rise & Fall of Romanian Gymnastics
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- The Rise & Fall of Romanian Gymnastics has been a sad thing to witness - on one hand. On the other hand, the decline signifies a healthier economy and culture. We dig into what's happened, why and what the future looks like for Romanian WAG.
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i would love to see a video on all of the age accusations on many asian gymnasts, like kim gwang suk, he kexin, dong fangxiao(sorry if i misspelled her name), etc.
I would love if you would do a video about the Chinese. Thanks!
@@johnstollsteimer1083 me too. I always found it interesting because many asian countries calculate age differently. Example: when you are born you are 1 year old in Thailand, the day you are born.
@@AliciaGuitar That's not the reason for the falsification, though.
I would like to see a deep dive into the scoring system and the lack of innovative moves being introduced. The balance beam and bars are really lacking IMO.
It makes me really sad to read all the comments about how wonderful it used to be and how we hope it returns that way without acknowledging that the success was at least in part to the horrible abuse the girls suffered. Beatings by coaches and parents. A lack of nutrition. Living in an environment of fear. They were incredible gymnasts, but I feel like we need to simultaneously acknowledge what they went through. No one else ever did for them.
Exactly You said just what I intended to
Last I checked it is hard to win an olympic medal with lack of nutrition, low morale, and fear. Romania was good because they had discipline, which is not easy to maintain. They are not as good now because they were introduced to western liberalism.
@@Zicologo I really do not agree. Last time that I checked, they worked hard so that they weren’t punished with beatings and abuse. It wasn’t discipline that brought their success, it was the constant threat of poverty. This made it much easier for the coaches to abuse their power. Look up 11 year old Adriana Giurca. This was the kind of punishment they would have if they failed. Those gymnasts could absolutely win an olympic medal by fear alone. It literally was life or death. Please stop trying to glorify the trauma that they went through. And why do you need to bring political views into this? I can’t even tell if you actually watched the video. The whole reason for their decline was that the gymnasts found other ways to stay out of poverty that didn’t force them to stay as thin as possible or leave them with permanent injuries. It was proven that only a very small amount of them actually had a passion for the sport and most were just desperate for a source of income. Please learn about the topic before you comment on it.
@@Zicologo you checked wrong then
@@Zicologo that’s not what the gymnasts themselves have said.
seeing ponor crying made me so upset she’s such a legend and she’s done everything she can
she was pushed on so many times to come out of retirement to paper over the cracks
@@it2313 i’m sorry i don’t understand why they would have them be members of the romanian police. could you clarify?
@@it2313 Well she's not going to say she doesn't want to come back is she?
@@alexisouren In communist times Dinamo Bucharest sporting team was owned by police and Steaua bucharest was owned by the military, and even now, in any sport except football they own stakes in it
For every person that works their hardest, there will always be someone willing to work harder
The talent is probably still there, but the incentives and mentality should match today’s standards.
Teach younger generations to love the sport and reward results with footballers’ salaries.
Exact. Dar ce sa faci, mizeriile alea din parlament fura tot, nu distribuie nimic sportivilor. Si eu am renuntat la sport de performanta pentru ca nu era nici o speranta sa dezvolt o cariera de genu in romania.
@@SkinnyLegs normal că Parlamentul e de vină. Ce ar fii să încercam sa nu ne mai legam atât de guvern și sa faci tu ceva. Pana la urma, guvernul nu are cum sa controleze in totalitate sportul. Mentalitatea ta este exact mentalitatea proastă ce bântuie romania
@@sikerslalatm3147 de unde sti ca nu fac si ca nu am facut? Vorbesti aiurea
@IULIANA ALEXANDRA BUZESCU ai dreptate, multumesc
Maybe rake away the sadistic SOB coach and his evil wife and give the poor little girls some food, a hot bath and a soft, warm bed to sleep in. This is nauseating to even watch.
Romanian gymnasts were always so amazing and it's sad they're basically gone
Not the way they were trained. Beating, food deprivation mental abuse.
The coaches are worse than the Karolis
Not it isn't sad, is actually good 'cus that means girls aren't being abused in name of sport, at least when it comes to gymnastic.
They taken from the age of 6, they were deprived of education. Starved and disciplined.
@@Angelaius How simple is to eat shit!! Isn't it!?
I was obsessed with Romanian gymnastics from 1992-2000+. Mid-90’s, I wrote to the embassy asking for any info on gymnastics. They sent me a cd for the computer with ‘70’s and 80’s highlights of their gymnasts routines as well as a book. Amanar will always be my favorite gymnast. I think it will take $$$$$$ for Romanian gymnastics to make a come back. I miss seeing them up on the podium.
I was a teen in the mid-90’s btw
That is true. Romanian gymnasts were great but times are hard and maybe few became interested in this sports since it is expensive. Unlike in US, parents have the resources to send their children to gym at early age.
@@jhaysonryanncorpuz817 some American parents get 2, 3 mortgages on their house and go in lots of debt to keep their kids in training. It may not be bad in the beginning but let's not act like American parents and gymnasts don't make huge sacrifices to train as they get older. Romania is a fledgling government now. Until things stabilize, something like gymnastics just isn't going to take priority. America has the benefit of being a democracy since the beginning. Lest not anyone forget that fact. And the benefit of capitalism allows those successful gymnasts to make a lot of money off of their winnings. I'm not sure even a phenomenol Romanian gymnast could make a future for themselves like American gymnasts could. Many top athletes end up moving to America after they get their fame. No money to be made in their home country. Let all that sink in when these American born athletes are kneeling for the anthem. Real stupidly. Like biting the hand that has fed you.
@@ahavens2463 exactly! And thank you for your dead on comment!
@Krista Carlson, thanks for reminding me about Simona Amanar. I grew up in Timisoara, Romania and odd as it sounds, she was my kindergarten PE instructor 20 years ago. I would guess she wasn’t paid more than $200/month for that job, and it was shortly after her retirement after the Sydney olympics. And I remember my parents telling me that the kindergarten had in the past other instructors
that were former olympians in gymnastics and track&field. That just goes to illustrate just how terrible the post-retirement outcomes are for Olympic athletes in Eastern Europe, where sport is not associated with higher education like it is in the US.
4:51 that's the new Romanian gymnastics program, started back in 2014 by Belu and Bitang, with the help of the government officials, sponsors and former champions (including Nadia, Ponor, Izbașa, Răducan). They selected 200 talented little girls (out of over 12.000 participants) to train initially at regional gymnastics clubs. Currently there is a junior team training at the national center at Izvorani. The girls show great potential and they are expected to peak in time for Paris 2024. One of them is Ana Maria Bărbosu, 6 times junior European champion in 2020.
Would this be enough? We'll see.
Thanks for the information!
Menomale che hai spiegato bene tutto,cara,gimnastica romineasca nu v-a muri niciodata, abia astept la ai miei 72 de ani sa o vad la Tokyo pe Larissa Iordache. Salutari din Verona si bafta.
Scusa-ma ca am inceput mesajul in italiana, dupa 42 de ani de cind traiesc in Italia ,farà sa vreau am inceput in italiana.Salutari tuturor rominilor,neamul nostru.
Excelent news, knowing that the Romanian gymnastics that girls already carry in their DNA will gradually be reactivated, let's hope they really consolidate a major league women's team.
Long live ROMANIA and its gymnastics!
And Sabrina Voinea
Belu and Bitang were the national team coaches, but the girls who were selected had been already coached at their local clubs by very competent coaches. Many of those coaches unfortunately emigrated during the 90s. I used to see a lot of Romanian names in the staff of countries like France or England, who were never good at gymnastics and suddenly started having results. In all sports, junior coaches are crucial in developing the elite athletes. I remember seeing some interviews a few years ago where they were complaining about the uneven skill set the gymnasts arrive with when they come to the national team now. The decline of early coaching and scouting are another 2 very important factors for the Romanian gymnastics situation.
It's funny to read that. I followed the case of Kaylia Nemour which shook the French Gym world recently, and Kaylia, now a Gold medalist at the Paris Olympics is trained by a couple from Roumania.
Romania will be back dominating at least another decade from 2028 onwards. The talent pool we have is unmatched, we had poor management thats all. Romanians are fighters and they will prove themselves time and time again
One important "economic" factor that affected directly gymnastics and other sports in Romania is the way the popular practice of sports changed. Previously there existed a state-supported system of local sports clubs at neighbourhood, school, town, and city levels, where many children could take up and practice a variety of sports. This constituted a great and vast selection basis for competitive and elite sports. With the fall communism, privatisation and neoliberalisation of everything, these clubs were disbanded, their facilities dismantled or otherwise destroyed, the subject of Physical Education in schools diminished and discredited. Thus, most kids who cannot afford to pay for private practicing of sports have very little if any opportunity to do it anymore. The whole structure on which the world competitive sports like gymnastics (or tennis, basketball, volleyball, athletics in general, swimming etc. ) relied has disappeared like smoke.
Very true my parents grew up in communist romania and lived in sports training schools. Romania was able to scout the best of the best with this method and you didn't need to have money to be given opportunity.
it is called socialism. it was the reason socialism started at the first place, to make lives better.
@@alanOHALAN Don't be naive. It wasn't about making lives better, at least in sports. It was to win. And they won.
The communist regime simply allocated into sports the kinds of funding it should have directed to the most pressing social needs such as schools and hospitals. Today's countries of the former Eastern Bloc don't score as many international victories as they used to-as opposed to Russia or China where the old system persists-but the little they do achieve is proportionate to the wealth of their country. And it definitely didn't use to be the case.
@@alanOHALAN no it was COMMUNISM and those resources being given to sports should have gone to people who were starving in the first place BECAUSE of communism.
Can you talk about your opinion on Asian gymnastics? China is a powerhouse but there is so much hidden and so much to be unfolded, Korean gymnastics is so interesting with the abuse allegations, wrongly aged gymnasts, and North Korea having such great vaulters but nothing else. Japan is so successful on the men’s side, how do the women get treated/represented. Maybe choose one and make a video?
Thanks for the suggestions!
I like this video idea but I’m a little skeptical of what the comments will look like. we already have enough Asian hate and racism in the gymnastics community, especially towards the Chinese.
@@jalayhaferguson8490 people who pull the topic towards asian hate are not the ones who appreciate the effort in the video or gymnastics. of course i don’t support hate towards asians but this video would not be about racism. those who think that was the topic of the video can be happy with themselves but the rest of us will enjoy USAG Tea’s work.
There was a gymnast from North Korea named Kim Suk(I think that’s her name) during the 1987-1993 WAG era who was actually age bumped and was too young to compete and was actually 14 in her last year of gymnastics. She was competing senior elite at like the age of 8 of one point and was “15” years old three years in a row. She got 4th in the Uneven Bars at the Barcelona Olympics and barely missed the Gold medal due to a step on her landing.
@@aidan_mckinney5853 *she was 4th on bars at the olympics.* Also yes i’m aware, things like that and how the country handled/allowed this are why the history of gymnastics in Asia is so interesting and needs to be uncovered.
So it declined because they stopped abusing children? I don't see why that's a bad thing.
Yeah but to be fair it seems like every program is abusing children, sadly? Is the US any better?
Good point!
@@cookieaddictions sadly no, they are way too many stories from gymnasts all around the world like this.
@@cookieaddictions US got the best coaches from all these countries but didn't follow the abusive methods that burned out the gymnasts. Most of the children who are doing gymnastics in US are having fun while training for long hours. There are of course exceptions like Maggie Haney and the whole Nasser situation, but the US program is mostly better, compared to China, Russia and Romania especially. Hope Aliya can correct the mistakes in the Russian juniors program, she was the perfectly paced Russian gymnast of the decade
For the love of cats nearly every top gymnast of the past decade was abused by Larry Nassar, and all of them were subjected to the Karolyi system where they were starved and terrified. Many of their coaches were the same coaches that were abusive in Romania or the Soviet Union. Yeah maybe they didn’t actually beat up their gymnasts but many of them were forced to train on injuries, subject to verbal abuse and humiliation, sexual abuse, a culture of fear and poor approach to health which led to many eating disorders. This is across the board for the last 20 years. So I don’t think the US has any grounds to act morally superior to the Romanians.
I lived in Romania for 1 year and have traveled back a few times. One thing i noticed but I couldn’t explain was the deep sadness in a lot of older people’s eyes. The ones that grew up in communist Romania. A lot of the women in their 20s also. I loved living there but had to move back to Chicago due to money issues. Living there changed me forever. When i moved back i used to think in Romanian language and dream a lot about being back there. I missed it so much!
It is nice you had a chance to live there. I used to live in Estonia and miss it so much. I will move back in the future.
I've been wondering what happened to Romanian gymnastics, so thanks for posting this video. I'm glad their economy is doing better and they've shifted their focus to education. It's always sad to see great sports dynasties die, but we do have UA-cam to watch the greats.
This video contains a lot of sh*t, not information. I’m from Ro and I know what I’m talking.
unfortunately education is also going down the drain, severely underfunded and poorly structured.
Ponor should be named the national coach, if coaching is something she wants to do
this is so so sad. Romanian gymnasts to me were the perfect mix of grace, fluidity and skill. I miss seeing them and hope they are in for a comeback in 2024 olympics!
everytime someone says grace in gymnastic, i think they are racist
Outrageous that Belu could dare to blame his gymnasts failure on their 'injuries and lack of motivation' - both of which lie squarely on the shoulder of the coach and system within which they train.
@IULIANA ALEXANDRA BUZESCU I know this already and this fact is irrelevant.
Don't blame
The guvernant stopped promoting them: the children, the coach, sport in general
and their salary went down
@@youarebeautiful7876 The economy fell.
@@MAYK1NG It's not just about that. Im from ro
I truly hope larisa can medal this year. She’s had such a tough, up and down career. She’s been through a lot
Romanian 🇷🇴 gymnasts still the most stunning and interesting ever in history
Three of the eight coaches at my gym were from Romania. They were some of the best coaches I ever had.
Sad story. I loved the Romanian gymnasts. They were my favourites.
As a Romanian, I can say that the main reasons for why Romanian sport is declining, even though we were notable powerhouses in quite a few of of the Olympic sports, is because there is no money. Politicians are not interested in funding the sports teams, either by choice or not. The facilities where we train are basic, the parents cannot afford the costs for children to be incredible and there is also no future for the gymnasts/other athletes. It's frankly embarassing but I cannot fathom the idea that it is all intentional and not some higher power at play here.
It fascinates me how a little country can build up from nowhere into a dominant force in something, but then after they are dominant it eventually falls apart and there is seemingly no way to retain it. This is so true of so much more than gymnastics.
Kind of depressing but oh well
Abuse and doping, like east Germany were they were forced to dope
@Alsayid Îți mulțumesc pentru reflexivitatea ta sinceră și respectuoasă!
I have 46 years old and I was born here girls from this country is a strong its smart beautiful and the same time delicate becose of coruption afected hers its a most wonderfoll girls carismatic
În România sint cele mai frumoase fete după cum se vede își dau totul pentru a fi primele au un caracter puternic mai periculoase decit băieții 😂😂😂❤❤❤
I agree with everything in this video. But I also think that the change of the scoring system in Gymnastics also contributed to the Fall of Romania. They were never known as innovators (like the Russians or Chinese). Just a few skills are named after Romanian gymnasts. They would only do the necessary to have a 10.0 start value but they executed everything really consistently and they were rewarded for it. When the system changed to an open-ended score and they started to reward innovation, the Romanians suffered. One prime example is Giga Gogean doing a Counter-Kim release on UB at the Europeans in the early nineties. They removed it because, even without it, she would still have a 10.0 start value. So, why take a risk? Also, another example with Gogean was on the Beam Finals at the 1997 Worlds. She got a gold medal with a very basic, lackluster but consistent routine over Kui Yuanyuan who executed one of the highest full twisting layouts I have ever seen someone executing in my life. They knew how to work the code into their favour but rules have changed and their standard system of doing only the necessary to secure the gold could never work into this new era.
@Gary Henzler AREN'T WE ALL! *ugh*
I agree with that. Doing the safest 10 SV was no longer the best way to win. Not to mention, because there was an unlimited score, deductions didn't affect the outcome as much. Romanians didn't make mistakes. Which helped when your opponent's fall would cost them 10% of their SV but not when a fall not costs a much lower percentage of the score. Not to mention, the new scoring system weighted vault and bars bigher than floor and beam. Romania are decent at vault but not great at bars. Meanwhile their two best events aren't scored as well. Unfortunately, they realised to late and pushed some of their stars along too much in their difficulty when they were too fargone in their training and development to adopt to this new style of gymnastics, causing poor execution, falls, injuries and burnouts. Not to mention the good coaches go abroad where they get paid more.
we need more gymnasts like "amanar" lol...
They also need to really concentrate on some kind of ub overhaul....
That's right, but the new qualification code was also modified to mainly favor the USA team and also overvalue each performance and competition in which they participate.
The classic, elegant and precise Romanian school faces a huge challenge, to resurface with a new team that little by little retakes the place of world supremacy alongside the Russians.
VIVA ROMANIA and its gymnastics.-
I agree with you. As a romanian, I can say that that communist mentality hasn't changed and now, you can see it clearly manifesting in the educational system.👍😣
I would love to hear you talk about gymnastics in India! Awhile ago I watched a video on Dipa Karmakar and how difficult training could be at times for her, so I'd love to watch a video more about that topic.
I do remember watching a documentary on her training. She trained on a makeshift vault and the area was very poor.
It takes so much dedication to keep going in such an expensive sport.
M
It all crumbled when the gymnasts started suing the coaches and the federation for being too rough/tough towards them. The coaches quit and the whole program fell apart. When the coaches were brought back, there was nothing left to pick up from. I am Romanian and I followed the whole story when it happened, it was sad for Romanian gymnastics
Mie nu-mi pare rau. Decat performanta cu abuzuri, mai bine lipsa.
@@aiziszizis2536 bine zis
So it crumbled when the gymnasts stood up for themselves against beatings, so what. That's what the system gets for being abusive and corrupt.
@@damnhandles there are always two sides of a story. We weren't there, so I feel like we shouldn't even have an opinion about it. However, the fact that the coaches were vindicated and brought back at the helms of the national team, I think it says something...I don't know...
@@adimih2120 no one was forced to be there, it was a privilege, and the biggest fear and punishment was being sent home. It's abuse in the same way US Marines and other special forces are being 'abused' in bootcamp. With tech billionaires taking ice baths and going on fasting retreats, I think people will eventually have a second look at the situation, and hopefully reassess what's discipline and what;s actual abuse that you can't escape. Imagine if the coaches used the WIm Hoff method, and then the woke media reporting that kids were made to take cold showers and subsequent outrage.
And yes, the coaches were vindicated: do you want the chance to be at the very top, and have the will to make sacrifices, or do you want to be cuddled and do it recreationally ? With those coaches gone, so is the first option.
Very good analysis! I agree with you in all points, and just want to underline that a big problem is that until very recently (meaning: after the latest European Championships), Romania‘s federation still relied on „old school coaches“ to train the seniors. They have a good generation with new seniors (Sfiringu, Stanciulescu, Trica, Duta) who where successful as juniors, but seemingly had problems to adjust to the senior coaches and retired or where on the brink of retirement at only 16. At time being, these coaches are not there anymore, and the senior national team is partly trained by the junior coaches aka the team incl. Lucian Sandu and Gina Gogean (Sfiringu, Ceplinski) or train in Bucharest with the Moldovans (the couple who trains Larisa Iordache). In this team are Iordache, Holbura, Stanciulescu, Trica, Duta and Andreea Munteanu, the BB European champion from 2015 who is back training elite after getting her college degree.
I hope this will be the right step, as the new coaches seem to really care about the girls and work with them to develop them. I think Romania was relying to long on a steady supply of new young gymnasts and the old coaches never bothered to support the girls, if they didn‘t „function“ right in their eyes, they just got rid of them. These people didn‘t realize that the world (in general, and that of gymnastics especially) changed in the last 20 years.
I feel like most of the people didn't really listened to the video.
When I clicked this video I was sad that the era os success for Romanian gymnastics had come to an end, but now I finish the video happy for that.
A success over child beating, mental and physical abuse, lots of pressure and much more is definitely not worth. I mean, just for the pleasure of the audience?
The sports is literally spoiled, rotting, contaminated of these kind of "people", child abusers. It has also became public in the US last years.
So disgusting.
I remember Jennifer Say saying something like the basic method of coaching in gymnastics was abuse. That’s awful
@@FeScully is outrageous that somebody dares to even say it. The sport is really contaminated
Yes don't listen the video but reading twice wat ya wrote... life is sacrifices dude btw how's your opinion about Osaka and Simone Biles they training for fun but they collapse in competition..wow wow 🤔
Poor Larissa has been holding it down for so long ❤️🩹
@Leigh L I agree, but mustafina and Larissa have always been my favorites for many years ❤️
@Leigh L I couldn't agree more. A matter of fact I always viewed her as Simone's only TRUE competitor during that 2013-2016 period. She is such a talent and it is sad to see how injury has disrupted her career. I am soooo happy that she has made it to Tokyo and want her medal real bad. Mismanaged talent indeed and that is why I often say that Simone was VERY FORTUNATE to land a coach like Aimee Borman. She recognized the talent, paced Simone beautifully and produced in the process the best the world has seen. Romania needs someone like Aimee or the Landis but may not be able to afford the cost.
@Leigh L Let us hope that something changes in Romania that would allow them to pursue a different path that talents such as Larissa's don't suffer.
@@aliciamcdonald7105 I agree. I think they just panicked about how they were being beaten by the new scoring system and pushed Larisa into learning all these new harder skills without the proper preparation or considering what suits her learned and ingrained style of gymnastics. They tried to make her be like Simone when she is a different gymnast entirely and she didn't have the proper training to do so. They could have upped her D score through means other than flight skills she's not capable of.
@@MsJubjubbird Yes I agree. It is the job of the coaches to view each new code and prepare their charges in a manner that would maximize their scoring potential without pushing difficult skills that their bodies are not able to handle. I mean let us be real, Simone is BUILT for high difficulty skills in addition, she has been blessed with coaches who know just how to pace her. This would account for why she has never really been injured over all these years.
My heart breaks for Catalina
@@johnjones6496 Do you know you're trolling? Orrrrrr.....
We as Romanian people used to be more focused and competitive, the failure is not all about the abuse and lack of financial motivation, we as society became more confortable and aren’t driven as we used to be. And in the past ( one of the few good things communism system had) there were many sport clubs and they were really supporting the athletes. My mom used to be one and they had all the privilege and facilities, but there was also really hard work and discipline!! Nowadays we are all too sensitive, crack at the least important problem and are very neurotic, so…
Another thing to note is that WAG is seemingly no longer the main discipline of Romanian Gymnastics anymore--the new jewel in the crown seems to actually be Aerobic gymnastics. With a grand total of 58 (18 gold, 19 silver and 21 bronze), Romania are actually ranked top of the all time medal table by a 24 medal-count lead.
In fact the popularity of aerobic gymnastics has grown so much that even Cristina Bontas has developed a thriving aerobics programme at her gym in Canada which has produced numerous national team members--albeit for the Canadian team, but still.
So for now that is where the future of Romanian Gymnastics seems to be. Aero is much cheaper to train, can easily be offered as a school sport, is easier to crossover into (as illustrated by the great success of Corina Constantin, who transferred from RG to AER aged 15 after sustaining a back injury in the former) and most of all it seems not to be tainted with the harrowing reputation of WAG (so more people are happy to put their children in it).
That said though, I do think Romanian WAG still has a chance at rebuilding but the process will have to be *slow,* as one of Romania's biggest issues has been incorrect pacing.
Well interesting. I watched a documentary on Deva and they bring the girls they think are suitable in to Board when they are like five or six or something. By the time they're seven they've picked the kids they want and the rest get re-trained for aerobics, so they;ve got some pretty amazing kids in there from a very young age.
They just forced Raducan out as president of the gymnastics association because they failed to qualify for the Olympics again so I don't think they're being patient with this.
@@MD-722 If you read between the lines when someone "steps down" in those circumstances it usually means "was placed under a lot of pressure to resign with dignity or they would be fired anyway" No matter how much of a star she was in gymnastics or the media, she was not a businesswoman. Losing Sabrina kinda sums it up, there is more money and better conditions for her abroad.
Who’s watching after 2024 Olympics?
Cele mai periculoase minciuni sunt cele împănate cu jumătăți de adevăr! Mulțumesc pentru emoționantele evocări și multelor răscolitoare și frumoase amintiri ! Totuși, nu ați expus adevarul! Ci o versiune, o narativă corect politic😇Salutări și urări de bine, tuturor!
I think you are placing too much emphasis on the culture of abuse. The Romanian national team was great DESPITE the abuses afflicted on the athletes, not because of them. You are correct that the decline of national athletics correlates with the liberalization of their economy - this is the story. Learning gymnastics is prohibitively expensive and the government funding is no longer there. Romanians no longer have to achieve international recognition and subsequently defect - they can move freely.
Interesting viewpoint, we should not romanticise abuse as the reason for success!
She its to subiective doesnt show objectivity and here all stupid things are down
I have a Romanian born Grandmother who had cheered on Nadia, so I really hope they can pull it together and make a huge comeback at some point. It just doesn't seem right to not have them excel in gymnastics.
LARISA IORDACHE is still in Tokyo, you know! Graceful and extremely talented, not only acrobatic! Thjs is the essence of gymnastic!
There is a change of generations in Romanian gymnastics, so it is normal to have some years of decline. As you presented in the video the programme "Ţară, ţară vrem campioane" is one of our new systems to develop our young talents. Our juniors won at European Champion the gold at both individuals and team competitions. So, therefore our generation is changing, we are building new infrastructure, we are trying to develop new training systems that are not anymore that abusive. It is normal to be in crisis since our country has been in economic decline until we became part of the EU. By now we are all positive and hopefully, we will come back stronger again.
PS: We have the economic power to sustain a sport like gymnastics, Romania is not very very rich, but is not anymore poor, we are fastly developing.
Very optimistic point of view!
Sadly, I'm not as optimist as you...
Hope you are right, though!
Just like any other sports, behind every gymnastic medal is harsh training. That's the reality. So, if you cannot endure suffering, then the sport is not for you.
Romanian girls are so beautiful 🤗❤️
Yes - abusing female gymnasts is unheard of in the US....
There’s a difference between rampant abuse and one rouge doctor committing an actual crime
@@hollister2320 To be fair, he didn't commit "a" crime. And he's the only one who got caught.
@@mxachary Not to mention, his number of victims is likely much higher. Obviously alot of sexual abuse victims choose to remain silent due to the trauma. Utterly shocking and disgusting.
@@hollister2320 You do realize the Karolyis who trained the US team were Romanian and trained Romanian gymnasts first using the same methods, right?
@@hollister2320 that doctor assaulted more than 256 girls. Who knows how many times he assaulted each girl so no it's not one crime only
I don't see it as a bad thing, I mean, according to these circumstances. Good for these young people they now can achieve success through study instead of enduring years of physical and psychological abuse in order to feed coaches' ego.
this is so sad. i've always wondered what happened to the romanians. i really need the comaneci era back and the romanians need to climb their way back up to the top
it might just be alright! Gina frikin Gogean is now a national coach in Romania! She started coaching a few juniors who will soon turn senior, they are incredible! Ana Barbosu, Mara Ciplineski, and Amilia Puflea are all well conditioned strong gymnasts she coaches. Still not the army Romania used to have but it’s something!
Kind of switching subjects but I'm seeing that decline in USAG as well. Although there's money here, there is this looming dysfunctionality in the coach/athlete relationship right now. It was in full display at the recent nationals where I saw so many gymnasts not in competition level condition. Coaches are now afraid to coach because of the misdeeds of their colleagues, gymnastics takes an incredible level of discipline that has to be consistently reinforced by the coaches.
Also, the US team really doesn't have competition. In the 80's and 90's the Romanians and Russians lit a fire under them with their creative routines and technical superiority. It was like they were teasing the USA girls with every imaginative element. Imagine if Simone had a Nadia, Silivas or Boginskaya all stone faced threatening her #1 spot.
I blame the pandemic for a lot of the inconsistencies at nationals. A lot of the women couldn’t train consistently, and they had no meets.
@@scoutz0rs I agree, the pandemic played a huge part in the inconsistencies and training of all the athletes. Not to mention everyone was training to peak in 2020 and when it get delayed everyone not only feared for their lives but was also unsure if there was ever going to be an Olympics for this cycle.
It's way too early to talk about a US decline, the women are the overwhelmingly favorite and could field 3 teams that could all potentially contend for a medal in Toykyo.
Miss the romanian great gymnast :(
Excellent video! very interesting seeing how the politics and economy of the country influence de development of the sport. Greetings from Argentina
I am so impressed by people around the world saying they love Romanian gymnasts. I grew up watching them in the 90s, but I don't think it crossed my mind that they have fans in other countries.
The video is very well done. The one thing I would add is that people only turned on the trainers once results started to decline. And it was very hypocritical. We all knew what it took to become a gymnast, we all knew how training worked in all sports at that level, back then. And not just in Romania, all over the eastern block. The soviet union was even worse. People just chose to ignore it, as long as it brought us medals. I don't want to excuse the abuse, but I think the situation could have been handled much better.
Such a great channel I’m glad I stumbled upon this channel. I honestly think that the time of Romanian greats is past us. I don’t see them regaining their glory unfortunately
Thank you! Love you gymnastics! Love you Romania! 😟
Hope you're wrong.
You're wrong!
I watched Nadia, but I still want Romanian WAG to return.
I’m Romanian , what actually happened was a decline in people wanted to succeed in sports . It also affected education . Honestly , kids don’t care enough about education or sports .
now they are rocking in tennis
It's literally just Simona Halep
Sometimes harsh coaches are necessary to being out top performance but the treatment should be ethical.
This was very informative. Thank you
I miss the Romanians on the podium. I consider the years between of 1992-2004 as the Golden Era for Romanian gymnasts.
I didn’t realize how poor system they have. Don’t worry, slowly gets better. It never erase Romanian Team. In my my mind, they are strong and powerful.
Had
It's so sad about Romanian gymnasts. I remember to this day watching Sandra Izbaza winning gold on Beijing on Floor and Cataline ponor in 2004 athens
Romanian gymnastics is back! Ha!❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉
The change in CoP was also one of the reasons. During their reign the Romanians (except 2004 team) relied on mistakes from other countries to win, and they kept their 10.0 valued routines-especially bars-as safe as possible. This strategy is only possible if everyone has the same max possible score, which is now no longer the case.
That is a really really good point. I think Tim Daggett once said something like, “They wear your down with their consistency.”
Ok then, why other countries didn’t use the “strategy of 10.0 value routines” if it was so simple? Because it wasn’t.
Your channel gives me life. I click so quickly when they get posted!! 😂❤️
The reason why Romania was successful, sounds starkly similar to why USA is successful.
Lol...yes
Not quite. Karolis never really actually abused their gymnasts - never beat them or starved them. Sure, there were little mind games that would be subjectively categorized as abuse, but if there was one thing the Karolis did was to be neglectful on how the national team physician treated them.
@@TickleMeElmo55 um, do you live under a Rock?? Karolyi ranch has been shut down 3 years ago, and they were abusive towards the athletes. Inform yourself before you drop some bullshit
Money. That’s the answer for all sport issues. No free swimming pool, no ice skating rink, nothing it is free. People barely have money for making a living…
I'm earlyyyy 😁😁😁
I love your channel!! you always do an amazing job on your videos ❤❤❤
Who can forget Romania's gymnasts and their contribution towards this event.
Cei ce nu iubesc România ! Cei care nu SIMT ROMÂNEȘTE !
Larissa getting hurt really changed a huge dynamic of that team, she carried them but they still would qualify
Girl I love these videos. Thank you for the complete and detailed tea
It is not like the USA gymnastics system is a bed of roses....
LMAO
Oh it's not but compared with China and Korea it's a bed of roses with a few spikes.
“Where’s this girl from? Romania?!”
…tells us all we need to know about what Romanian gymnastics used to be
Bring It On, right? 😀
Long time ago, yes
It's sad!
It's not just Gymnastic who is in a deplorable situation but the whol sport area suffers enormous.
Hope some day our country will once again give great athlets to the world.
Romanian & Russian trainers are incredibly strict no matter the discipline. They train a group, not individuals. U fail, u fail the whole group. The level of mental pressure and military-like physical training placed on gymnasts can be described as very intense, even extreme, but not abusive.
Falling from great hights only underlines the hight you have achieved
Ponor was fantastic! I hope she is doing well in life.
wow this is really interesting. thanks for making this video!
Now Romanian gymnastics has been reduced to accepting bronze medals based on technicalities that may or may not have happened. 🤦♂️
But Jordanica wants the bronze also, although she did not perform the gogean till the end....so back on the 5th place!
@@michaelalexander2208 yeah, I guess she’ll just have to settle for the 1 gold medal from Paris. None of the Romanian girls would know anything about that.
@@parkermudsen1063 I think most of them know. And the whole world knows. Simona Aminar, Andreea Raducanu, Lavinia Milosovici, Sandra Izbasa, Gina Gogean, NADIA COMANECI.
@@michaelalexander2208 you’re talking about the past, not the present.
Easy . The Romanian Gymnast coaches wanted to get paid . So when the Warsaw Pact countries opened up their borders, these Romanian Coaches left .
They wanted to get paid .
That's kind of a no brainer .
Larisa is the only elite romanian gymnast that has a chance at competing in Tokyo. Veterans like Ponor and Izbaza retired as well as the interest in gymnastics declined. We may never see romanian gymnastics ever again in elite.
2 romanian gymnasts will compete in tokyo
@@jesuspalomo5143 Who is the second one?
@@ghostt4634 Maria Holbura earned a spot in the 2019 World Championship, placin 54th in the AA qualification and the team placed 22nd, but now she changed gyms and she trains alongside Iordache
@@jesuspalomo5143 what? But that’s like if she wasn’t even elite, to be 54th really isn’t that great
@@sinhueherrera8984 she qualified because her results are anough between the gymnasts that team could not qualified to tokio
Ponor & Izbaşa retired. That's what happened
Catalina Ponor and Silivas were favorites of mine. Sad to hear about this abuse.
It is the end of an era...now China has the money, the work ethics and the harsh training conditions that made Romania great back then..nobody can compete with that I m afraid.
And their drugs 😅
They were fab for a long period I admired them for a long time even in Nadia 76 time it is sad to see what occurred but contributed to some fabulous gymnastics forever in our hearts for those who love gymnastics ❤❤❤❤
I was obsessed with the romanians amd russians, well up to a point. Nowadays im very honest to say that ive lost all interest in womens gymnastics. That shiny outfits and bad make up really pushed it too far.
@Irina Popa I agree. I miss the artistry of previous generations. Figure skating has gone down the same path as well.
yup, everything is uglier, more difficult, but the routines look the same, and they lost any shred of creativity and class.
What a bunch of lies. First of all, there was poverty in Romania yes and still is, mostly in rural areas. But the images presented do not show the rest of at least 75% that was okay. Also, the “funds” from European Union are a line of credit and you get them after you join. That’s it, I could only watch until 2:44
Today i was silivas floor routine. Hope romanian can back even better
No mencionaste las décadas del 70 y 80. Son décadas muy importantes, pues desde hace tiempo eran una selección poderosa y competitiva. De hecho, la evolución de este deporte en los Estados Unidos se debe al rol de los entrenadores que se fueron a trabajar allá desde países como Rumanía y la ex Unión soviética. Aparte de lo concerniente a la situación política y económica del país, se puede decir que un gran factor fue el cambio en el código de evaluación ocurrido después de los juegos Olímpicos de Atenas 2004. Este hecho determinó grandes cambios y llevó a que la gimnasia artística se transformara en algo más atlético, como hoy la conocemos en las estrellas de EE. UU.
Ella hizo un vídeo dedicado a las décadas del 70 y 80, y dejó claro que para entender la caída de Romanía, había que indagar esas décadas. Por eso este vídeo está centrado desde los 90 en adelante.
I really liked this video, good research done, very informative, thank you.
I was just thinking about this--shocked to see Romania not even qualify a team in 2016 and bring so few gymnasts to 2020. We need another Bela Karolyi!
I think it is just a cycle. The modern AG vs the classic AG. Extreme high score vs high execution and artistic. European gymnastic more choreography details and dance more compared to other countries. The cycle will be back to classic gymnastic one day
It got broken because of the change from the 10.0 system
The truth is, whichever the sport, once you are at the top, there is only one way, and that is downwards. There was an unfortunate chain of events that led to here. I might be wrong, but I put this on our government and ministry of sport.
These "let's keep this our little secret" folks are everywhere, including in our schools. If someone encourages or threatens you into not telling your parents something.... They're evil. Tell your parents.
When I’m hearing the word- gymnastics, Romania is the first country I know that they are triumphant
Everything is simply cyclic. 40 years ago or so the thought was that the USA was and would always be terrible at this sport because ... of the same reasons you gave for why Romania is now. That we were a bunch of fat, decadent, lazy people etc. No one country can have that kind of talent all the time. Another 20-40 years and who knows maybe Brazil and India will dominate the sport of sports.
The Romanians taught you gymnastics.
Am a subscriber and look forward to more information about Romanian gymnastics.
My little step sister was training to be a gymnast in Romania. She was so smart she could have been anything she wanted but her mother wanter a gymnast. She was kept in the campus for weeks, not being allowed to see her family, to eat, to leave the campus. She was starved, overworked and beaten. My dad would smuggle food and sometimes sweets for her over the fence and when it came to selection day she narrowly misses the national team. My step mother blames my dad for it, because she says my sister gained weight and so didn't perform. Now my sister is a coach at my old school in my old town. My input is that this sport requires the children to begin at a very young age (5 years old), it requires dedication, starvation, hard work and to put learning on second place. The small girls cannot decide this for themselves so the parents must make that decision. All this for a few years of possible fame and a chance to be a coach afterwards.
Hmm this shows that talent without hard work is zero... Usa china always had more talented gymnasts but Romania had the hard work that made the difference.... Now Romania has just talent no hard work
You mentioned the solution: Money.
The sport needs to be properly funded so that the gymnasts can make an actual living with it - all that's then needed is one single star who is really successful and who becomes present everywhere from cereal boxes to car advertisement.
While simple, the solution is also near-impossible for an economy which is dealing with challenges such as pretty much all economies world-wide at present. Also, the soultion won't be quick - this will take time. I do remember the Romanian golden era in gymnastics and would love to see somebody able to challenge China and the USA. Just don't go the Russian way! :-)
It doesn't work in the context of the Romanian society and mentality. As a Romanian myself I can tell you that, generally, Romanians don't care about athletes anymore, they do only once every four years when the Olympics are held because of nationalistic pride but other than that, they don't give two cents. You don't see athletes and actually valuable people being mentioned, they often and easily fade into obscurity. What you do see though are scandals and circuses, people with no actual talent or wits being promoted and shown everywhere - the most famous and household names are wannabe/pseudo-singers and former cam girls. Not to mention the corruption going on inside the government that funds such things.
I don't mean to disrespect your opinion at all! In fact, I wish it were possible to implement. But to do that, to change the system, you'd have to change the mentalities.
@@floraflowersstay chill u spit to much venon in roumanian Garden dumb b..tch
In contrast to Romania, similar structures still exist in Hungary where sponsoring sports by companies is encouraged by means of tax refund. However, cultural changes are important. In a more stable economic environment, the clubs have to do everything in order to keep their talents in the gym. To achieve this, a more positive environment is needed and this applies to all sports.
In the Communist era, abuses were practically as common as they were in Romania. Nowadays, however, athletes have the opportunity to apply for scholarships in the US, for example, and, because of that, the sports culture is changing, slowly, but surely.
What's really crazy is how foreign athletes are envious of the opportunities American athlete have and laugh at the ones kneeling for the anthem. Try living and training in a poor country a month or 2 and those athlete would be kissing the American flag.
@@ahavens2463 Many foreign athletes and sports leaders(!) laugh at them because they do not understand them _at all_, especially when they come from a country with a completely different history. For example, racism is also present in Hungary, but it's aimed primarily against Roma people and not against Blacks. (This applies more to Budapest and a bit less to rural areas.) And this type of racism doesn't have anything to do with colonialism, for example, because Central European countries were left out of it.
IMHO America has screwed up two things that would have been necessary for the social ascension of African-Americans:
First, there is the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. IMHO it became obsolete long, long ago. This leads to that if you enter a Hungarian or Slovak etc. Roma ghetto, you may be beaten up if you don't watch your step; in the States, however, if you enter some of the ghettoes, you may even get killed. This is because of the presence of firearms in the hands of some people who shouldn't have them. I wouldn't be a teacher in those areas. Who would teach there at all? IMHO it's impossible to educate people living in those ghettoes if teachers have be afraid of their mere lives.
Second, after the liberation of the African-American slaves, America forgot to provide them with proper education and financial aid which would have been necessary to compensate for their financial and cultural handicap and let them live as free people. "Cultural handicap" means: having worked as slaves meant that they had been barred from (higher-level) education for generations so they didn't even have a chance to keep up with White Americans so that they could have got better-paid jobs. And this is just one aspect of the whole.
(Yes, I used to make researches in sociolinguistics and I even knew a teacher who used to teach in classes with a huge majority of Roma children.)
I agree. Back in the day the girls and their parents didn't know better. These days they;re exposed to western media and values more through media and travel and so the rights of the child become a bigger thing. I bet there are far less parents willing to send their babies away from home to boarding school at 6- let alone to be in a gymnastics boot camp and kids will be more inclined to speak up if they get told off or say they want to go home. The coaches need to adapt their style to suit the values of the new generation and meet them half way, in the same way older employers have to adapt to accommodate both older and younger employees.
@@harczymarczyeverything about ușa its corect also u need to pinpoint thr Viktor Orban siphonate a lot of money from taxpayers and now european money as well and european comision subdue the hunagrian guvern :)))
@@ahavens2463Nobody gives a damn about the american flag! Gtfo
As a Romanian, everything was accurate. But there are other issues like underfunding for sports in general. Ana Maria Popescu talked about their situation in the fencing field and faced our Education and Sports Minister publicly when she returned from Tokyo. There are not that many good coaches either and the interest in sports here in Romania plummeted...
The fact that Romania went from beating China and winning bronze on the podium in 2012 to not even qualifying to 2016. Is like wow what if that happened to like China I understand they had a good compitition 2012 but that’s a huge difference. 3rd to nothing I just can’t comprehend.
they only got bronze in 2012 because they had people come out of retirement to paper over the cracks.
@@MsJubjubbird but they still medaled and beat China the Olympic champs of the last quad that is still crazy impressive. They didn’t have great depth like China or something for sure but they still beat them. Catalina came out of retirement I think 2015 to help with rio.
@@dudubcjkxkd I wonder if it was a poisoned chalice that they got bronze though. Because then they thought everything was fine and all good, when really it was falling apart. Catalina came out to help them qualify at the test event after the disaster at Worlds, but ended up crashing. Then she competed beam at Rio because Iordache was injured. It was very clear her preparation was rushed. Apparently Belu and Bitang didn't even show up to the test event. That's how great things were going. Raducan was just made to step down as president of Romanian gymnastics after they failed to qualify again. But I don't think it's her fault and they could have used her presence to inspire more little girls to get into gymnastics. They keep using ineffective quick fixes when the solution must be comprehensive and long term.
-Knows nothing about gymnastics
-Watching Olympics cause why not
-Caster makes passing remark about Romania not being here
-Here I am
Thanks for the video lol
The Romanian government need to start putting money into gymnastics and they need to start making it more appealing to people. They started putting more money into the sport in Britain which meant better facilities and coaching. Now we're seeing the benefits as we are now 1 of the top countries in the world at gymnastics.