Dune Talk: The Butlerian Jihad & The Dangers of Artificial Intelligence

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  • Опубліковано 22 гру 2024

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  • @QuinnsIdeas
    @QuinnsIdeas  6 років тому +180

    Thanks for listening everyone. Tell me what your thoughts are and let me know if you would like more less structured Dune videos like this along with my others. ☺

    • @Awoll101
      @Awoll101 6 років тому +3

      IdeasOfIceAndFire Dune is my favorite SF series, could you make a video on your thoughts about the scattering?

    • @eck3319
      @eck3319 6 років тому +2

      Background music credits please!

    • @QuinnsIdeas
      @QuinnsIdeas  6 років тому +1

      Check the end of video

    • @oddish2253
      @oddish2253 6 років тому

      Long Live The Fighters of Muad'dib!

    • @sharp7j
      @sharp7j 6 років тому +2

      Fun video! If it doesn't affect your production of your other vids you should totally keep doing these!

  • @Bldyiii
    @Bldyiii 5 років тому +442

    “Machines are evil and will destroy humanity”
    “Let’s snort this mysterious worm poop that turns our eyes blue will kill us if we stop taking it”

    • @Hartzilla2007
      @Hartzilla2007 4 роки тому +77

      Lets not forget that said worm poop only exists on one planet so whoever controls it can pretty much can bend the entire galaxy to their will by threatening to destroy it.

    • @BastardOfTheNorth
      @BastardOfTheNorth 4 роки тому +14

      Decayed worm corpses*

    • @nobleman9393
      @nobleman9393 4 роки тому +32

      We can't rely on computers, let's rely on Mentats

    • @aaaaZa100
      @aaaaZa100 4 роки тому +1

      Yes

    • @bobross4886
      @bobross4886 3 роки тому +7

      I’m a sucker for good drugs and donuts.

  • @DM-Sym
    @DM-Sym 6 років тому +397

    This is one of the more interesting pieces of Dune lore. The Butlerian Jihad is such a compelling idea.

    • @morgezorge6387
      @morgezorge6387 6 років тому +27

      Yeah, it's strong enough trauma to make the shape of the society in Dune plausible, that's why it's great. i personally hope to be a Cymek one day :)

    • @zanitzeuken
      @zanitzeuken 6 років тому +16

      [skynet downvotes your comment]

    • @CarFreeSegnitz
      @CarFreeSegnitz 6 років тому +7

      Ixians downvoted.

    • @baneofbanes
      @baneofbanes 6 років тому +10

      What’s funny is where all using thinking machines right now.

    • @TheElllord
      @TheElllord 6 років тому +1

      Mr Sunshine, the book is epic

  • @matthewwilliams8978
    @matthewwilliams8978 4 роки тому +32

    And I totally agree! Herbert's portrayal of the Butlerian Jihad (though he gave little information on it) made it seem like it was a galaxy-spanning Luddite rebellion. The movement hated AI because of how it was being used, not because the "thinking machines" were these brutal overlords. And it also fudged the concept, since all the machines amounted to were copies of Omnius, one other thinking machine (Erasmus), and billions of drones.

  • @fabre97150
    @fabre97150 Рік тому +60

    Your video is so relevant for us in the real world right now with the progress in AI

  • @skeletorrobo
    @skeletorrobo 6 років тому +136

    No more internet? Fine. Let's pull out our dune novels...

    • @edwardmartin5860
      @edwardmartin5860 6 років тому +1

      skeletorrobo love your response.

    • @tomstokoe5660
      @tomstokoe5660 6 років тому +7

      Don't forget the big stash of acid so we can replicate the capabilities of our old technologies with human abilities.

    • @v.sandrone4268
      @v.sandrone4268 6 років тому +4

      I'll get out my hand cranked ebook reader - (I don't do low technology well but I can hack high tech)

    • @fntime
      @fntime 5 років тому

      Or better yet, lets get drunk on sneaky pete wine. We can smoke
      and eat apple pie. Then we can put on costumes and 'live' Dune in
      real time. Thinking and sex have one thing in common, in the end
      you're going to pay a price. :)

    • @nathanjora7627
      @nathanjora7627 4 роки тому +1

      skeletorrobo okay, but you only have the Brian Herbert’s ones.
      Do a sanity check please.

  • @Izzy_Dead
    @Izzy_Dead 5 років тому +187

    People in 2008: I don't want some NSA spy device in my home!
    People now: Alexa?

    • @tomsenft7434
      @tomsenft7434 5 років тому +8

      I have a drunkard cousin who bosses his Alexa around constantly whenever I stop by. I think the powers that be are wasting their efforts.

    • @thefonsotube
      @thefonsotube 5 років тому +2

      Drives me nuts

    • @swirlcrop
      @swirlcrop 4 роки тому +1

      Well said.

    • @shaunenwright7872
      @shaunenwright7872 3 роки тому +6

      Just wait till neuralink comes out...

    • @foxylibrarian1
      @foxylibrarian1 3 роки тому +2

      Corporations are the cat’s paw of government now - a way around the Bill of Rights. This is what fascism is - merging of government and corporations. And they’re not even domestic corporations; they’re multinationals with globalist ambitions and loyalties.

  • @mpalfadel2008
    @mpalfadel2008 6 років тому +86

    My interpretation of the Butlerian Jihad in the expanded universe is that the machines weren't evil. even Erasmus wasn't truly evil in the way that the Titans were animalistic cruel horrible
    Erasmus cruelty had an antiseptic quality, not exactly evil just inhuman
    anyways that was my take on it

    • @silverbane8065
      @silverbane8065 6 років тому +12

      Exactly, he considered humans in general to be parts. If he could have had more empathy, considering he was the only real Erasmus, because of how long he had been disconnected from Omnius, he might have realised that since humans are not a collective (most of the time lol) each one is like him, the only model. I guess that is why he was so clinical for most of the time in regard to humans.

    • @jamesquinn6662
      @jamesquinn6662 6 років тому +10

      Brian Herbert's novels are lowest common denominator trash

    • @novaraptorus
      @novaraptorus 4 роки тому +8

      I actually read the Butlerian Jihad before the original dune books and I really hoped Erasmus would still be around after the Jihad

    • @richardhockey8442
      @richardhockey8442 4 роки тому +8

      malevolence not by design but by complete unconcern

    • @renatovarnariano2233
      @renatovarnariano2233 4 роки тому

      so call VIVISSECTION of humans like nazi did ....something of QUALITy? u must be insane

  • @Darthmuginz
    @Darthmuginz 6 років тому +39

    Man I gotta say I love your breakdown of the dune series. Im a chef and with that I have control over the radio. I've had 4 cooks by dune from listening to your channel. Thanks keep up the great work.

    • @jackiefreeborn2563
      @jackiefreeborn2563 5 років тому +2

      Darth Mugin that’s not much better than the poor schmucks in my kitchen having to listen to my NPR

  • @OneSockFellOff
    @OneSockFellOff 3 роки тому +45

    Reliance on computers, bad - reliance on drugs, totally cool. I agree they just went from one extreme to the other instead of creating a balance. I also wanted to learn more about how the spice withdrawls kill you if you don't have enough, is that discussed during the famine years? Great video as always!

    • @tamagothchic
      @tamagothchic 28 днів тому

      It's made clear that ruling powers (like the bene gesserit) had stockpiled spice specifically to avoid such an outcome, but also that many regular people died either due to the lack or resources or in the violence that erupted because of resource scarcity

  • @paulelephant9521
    @paulelephant9521 6 років тому +83

    Never understood the appeal of "the internet of things" direction with devices in your fridge,heating,doors etc..
    I mean I can understand why companies would want us to use such stuff, more information and control is more power and profits for them, but it makes my mind boggle that folks will happily set up audio and video recorders all over their houses!
    The implications if any of these devices are either abused by their makers or get hacked are extremely disturbing, and these things WILL happen, it's absolutely inevitable.
    Great content as ever!

    • @edwardmartin5860
      @edwardmartin5860 6 років тому +3

      paul elephant brotha that is so sobering and scary.

    • @aoescool
      @aoescool 6 років тому +5

      this is 100 percent correct statement.. when I saw the Samsung fridge I'm like why, why would anyone get that

    • @BoxStudioExecutive
      @BoxStudioExecutive 6 років тому +9

      Love how George Orwell predicted these things as devices of authoritarianism and amused at how people today embrace them willingly and eagerly.

    • @alanpennie8013
      @alanpennie8013 6 років тому +4

      paul elephant
      Murphy's law applies here. The system is going to fall apart one day like it did in EM Forster's story
      The Machine Stops.

    • @ObiTrev
      @ObiTrev 6 років тому +5

      Its simply a way to charge more money for an inferior product with features that make it sound better than it really is -aka "Bells and Whistles". My grandparents have a 1950s electric stove. It has worked perfectly for over 50 years with no repairs. Now you're likely to replace a stove every 13-15 years. And that's usually due to the electronic brain giving out, a capacitive switch or a damn "safety sensor" error-ing out. Quality of life enhancements are a scam.
      Hell, you can't buy a new car for less than $14,000 today. And eventually they're going to all be connected to the internet. That is a way for manufacturers to, once again charge more money, and governments like California will make it mandatory in order to tax drivers more directly. It's technocratic socialism. Why else are the biggest proponents of AI also for a universal wage and openly support AI taking minimum wage jobs from people?

  • @ahmadnasr
    @ahmadnasr 11 місяців тому +25

    How did a man 50 years ago have this vision about the world today and even build a new world on the ruins of the one we're stupidly building now.

    • @carlosaugustodinizgarcia3526
      @carlosaugustodinizgarcia3526 11 місяців тому +4

      Almost 60 years in fact.

    • @Sg6CrossOver
      @Sg6CrossOver 6 місяців тому +2

      Well those themes were discussed in the academic and military nearly 70 years ago, that's why

  • @tatitorodriguez376
    @tatitorodriguez376 6 років тому +108

    Dial up is the mind killer..........

    • @Giganfan2k1
      @Giganfan2k1 5 років тому +11

      Us: "What is in the box?"
      *box makes dial up noises*
      Comcast: "Pain"

    • @riloh58
      @riloh58 4 роки тому +2

      tatito rodriguez - I shall bend like a fibre optic cable in the wind.

    • @skoobydude
      @skoobydude 4 роки тому +1

      I just died!

  • @princeprocrastinate6485
    @princeprocrastinate6485 6 років тому +16

    I worked on the Amazon Alexa project, trust me they definitely do record what you're saying, I spent months listening to utterances from hundreds of different homes, a lot of them are things that people directly say or ask Alexa, but a lot of it is also private conversions that Alexa thinks is being directed at it, or random noises that activate it. Tech like that, including the Google one, do exactly the same. If you have one of those devices in your home, then what you say to it is being recorded and more.

  • @aaronarguelles8322
    @aaronarguelles8322 6 років тому +121

    More Dune please! Issac Asimov too!

  • @gameboxfreak
    @gameboxfreak 6 років тому +17

    This vision of laziness is the exact reason why, even though we have software to simulate things, I still have to be able to do it by hand to get my degree.

  • @oldeskul
    @oldeskul 6 років тому +20

    In the novel The Butlerian Jihad, the Titans had altered the thinking machines when they still had human bodies to wrest control of the human-controlled planets from their leader who had become long complacent.

    • @oldeskul
      @oldeskul 6 років тому +1

      Of course if you are a Dune purist you can disregard the Brian Herbert novels.

    • @Akaeus
      @Akaeus 6 років тому +5

      oldeskul of course you could but then you'd be wrong to do so just cause they, of course, dont live up to the original series in quality... disregarding works done by the son and heir to the series who uses own fathers notes is like saying anything Christopher Tolkien puts out is not canon in the middle-earth lore. It's the owner of the idea/franchise that dictates what is canon and not some fans calling themselves 'purists' like it actually means something. It doesnt.

    • @ejmiller3109
      @ejmiller3109 5 років тому

      I am a new dune fan, just read the first three, moved onto the Brian Herbert trilogy next and I absolutely loved it!

    • @gamefan987
      @gamefan987 2 роки тому

      @@Akaeus you actually believe that Frank had notes for 20 books ? They are just milking the brand, that's it

  • @gyongya
    @gyongya 3 роки тому +5

    Your voice is so beautiful! Your content and the work you put into your videos is amazing! I first heard your GoT videos. I started reading Dune because of your videos. You've made it so interesting and I love how you break down the books.
    Many thanks for the quality videos and narratives. You should definitely do a voice over for a book reading. Your voice is very soothing and also expressive.

  • @Brando64
    @Brando64 6 років тому +7

    and I can _listen_ for hours!
    More please, Quin.

  • @DeathBYDesign666
    @DeathBYDesign666 6 років тому +14

    What about the mentats? "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of saffu that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

  • @Augustus087
    @Augustus087 6 років тому +30

    Evidently, (from my understanding) the Brian Herbert books were based on notes Frank Herbert wrote on an old computer with 5 inch disks, if you can remember that far back.

    • @IgoByaGo
      @IgoByaGo 6 років тому +3

      Augustus87 Heron my brother thinks that Frank also told them as bedtime stories.

    • @christianealshut1123
      @christianealshut1123 5 років тому +7

      Yeah, there are a number of descendants of famous writers continuing their ancestors' works by claiming that something was left behind from which they work - it's to give their own work legitimacy, Just look at Dacre Stoker's Dracula novels....I was willing to cut him some slack with the first one, Dracula the undead, which had come clever ideas, but now he's written a new one, and part of its content cancels out the first one. Personally, I am only inclined to believe in the existence of such material if it is also made available to the public - researchers and, for that matter, anyone who's interested - to be studied in its entirety, like by being donated to a university manuscript collection or something. As far as I know, neither Brian Herbert nor Dacre Stoker have done that. Herbert is stilol another matter because Farnk Hebert very likely mnade the notes in preparation of a work that he was then unable to complete or even begin. Yet it would be interesting to see in how far Brian Herbert's work honors those notes.

    • @christophersandidge8257
      @christophersandidge8257 5 років тому +1

      I can.

    • @gunflesh
      @gunflesh 4 роки тому +1

      It would be interesting to put franks books and notes into an ai and have it write the continuation 😂

    • @leto-nl
      @leto-nl 3 роки тому

      I remember they where excelent frisbee's :)

  • @temmy9
    @temmy9 6 років тому +147

    Consider this..machines are already beginning to breed us. More and more people meet up through computer algorithms. This means the traits that favour humans meeting via computer are being replicated. It also means that the algorithms that are most efficient at matching humans are being perfected.

    • @alanpennie8013
      @alanpennie8013 6 років тому +9

      temmy9
      Machine natural selection. Neat

    • @Nighthawke70
      @Nighthawke70 6 років тому +31

      Hardly. The software still uses human intervention. People game the system to make money or gather information on the patrons to make money off of that or sell the database as a whole. It's a crazy market, full of databases and law enforcement trying to stifle the flow of information. It's not going to be a war of AI, it'll be a war of the information brokers.

    • @VALENTINEBEAMS
      @VALENTINEBEAMS 6 років тому +1

      @@Nighthawke70 Also, there's no necessary natural selection for the most apt algorithm.

    • @rev1595
      @rev1595 5 років тому +9

      What if a bear lost its claws or teeth? It's not about thinking machines, but about machines in general. Human beings dont have claws or fur or big teeth. We have minds that are able to think of clever ways to survive. If you take the machines away it would be bad just like if you take away any animal's means of survival. That doesn't mean machines are bad though, even thinking ones. That's the irony of Dune. Thinking machines were replaced by other crutches.

    • @cihuacoatl1887
      @cihuacoatl1887 5 років тому +2

      well the thing is that you cant reproduce with a goddamn bot that only wants your credit card number.

  • @OleKristianElns
    @OleKristianElns 6 років тому +29

    I am so glad your channel exists

  • @loszhor
    @loszhor 5 років тому +245

    When I hear lore like this how we got "too lazy" it sounds like people longing for "the good old days". From the outcome it seems it went from people controlling other people with machines to just plain people controlling other people with religion.

    • @Damienx247
      @Damienx247 5 років тому +61

      And drugs, lots of performance enhancing drugs, that dependence on could spark intergalactic wars.

    • @timhenley3602
      @timhenley3602 3 роки тому +24

      To be fair, Jessica warned Paul about controlling people with religion; ironic coming from a Bene Gesserit...

    • @fullsendcirca9255
      @fullsendcirca9255 3 роки тому +16

      Except the “religion” is actually real and the messiah has godlike powers he uses to control humanity. Pretty far off there

    • @ahmadfrhan5265
      @ahmadfrhan5265 2 роки тому +5

      religion doesn't "control " people Mr. fatherless child , it leads people. Islam is objectively true

    • @SinewRending
      @SinewRending 2 роки тому

      @@ahmadfrhan5265 *You are exactly the sort of fanatic that turns people off. Religion does indeed control people. It controls you. All religions are an idiotic waste of time and intellect.*

  • @HeavenShallTremble
    @HeavenShallTremble 6 років тому +8

    Recently my university invited the chef of the innovations department of siemens and he also said he was very afraid of AI.
    So, even in the tech field people are very aware of the risks.

  • @jeremycraft2445
    @jeremycraft2445 5 років тому +39

    "Our technology can be our downfall" said anyone who's ever sat through a meal while their companions spent the entire meal staring at their phones... :(

    • @jeremycraft2445
      @jeremycraft2445 3 роки тому

      @@psiclone4142 Nope.. but then again, I'm also not using a phone! ;P

    • @claudiabottom4086
      @claudiabottom4086 3 роки тому +2

      Yes people have lost the ability of meaningful conversation

  • @Defanos
    @Defanos 6 років тому +43

    More Dune dude!!! Please do all the books, even the ones by Brian, I know its kinda painful, but you cant blame the son trying to continue his fathers legacy.

  • @synchro505
    @synchro505 6 років тому +14

    Love this video. So much to consider regarding the Butlerian Jihad. Have you also explored the *Hyperion Cantos* series of books by Dan Simmons?

    • @silasclayton7777
      @silasclayton7777 6 років тому +1

      synchro505 besides Dune the Hyperion Cantos is my favorite sci-fi series of all time. It's always the damn computers/machines! Every once in awhile it's Bugs, but mostly the machines!!

    • @carcillian
      @carcillian 6 років тому

      Hyperion Cantos is a masterpiece.

  • @ChrisBrooks34
    @ChrisBrooks34 6 років тому +133

    There is nothing worse than stagnation. When we stop striving towards a goal we destroy ourselves.

    • @Giganfan2k1
      @Giganfan2k1 6 років тому +1

      I see us in the precipice of a nano great scattering. We are so close to space travel being a thing.
      When that happens we will scatter to the wind. Or at least I am most my friends would.

    • @Bheem161
      @Bheem161 6 років тому

      the question is if higher, faster, further is the goal or if it should be or if there is something else we should aim at.

    • @kallistiX1
      @kallistiX1 6 років тому +6

      Consider:
      Our species is only a fraction of a fraction as old as dinosaurs. For 66 million years, they roamed this same planet without changing a great deal. We know of only the tiniest amount of their numbers and various species because that is all that has survived into our time. The dinosaurs stagnated. They didn't need to evolve very much and so they didn't. Now, consider us: on the edge of the knife, an infant race, with the power to utterly remake our environment or destroy it many times over, short-sighted, territorial, hierarchical yet too intelligent to not be individuals. A brilliant flame trying to put itself out. And, then? Maybe our records survive, maybe out monuments, maybe our space junk lasts for a few centuries. Maybe. But, certainly, all that we have build will crumble to dust. What's worse that stagnation? Extinction and no one and nothing ever knowing we were ever even here.

    • @Nighthawke70
      @Nighthawke70 6 років тому +2

      @@Giganfan2k1 not hardly. We can barely fabricate a microsphere of self-sustaining life support. We are getting there, but we need a good reason to get out there. A damned good one.

    • @Giganfan2k1
      @Giganfan2k1 6 років тому +2

      @@Nighthawke70 personally, I think we are looking at a massive ecological collapse.
      The Midwest aquifer is pretty darn depleted. Multiple states are starting to have hard talks about fresh water supply.
      Worse the deadzones, and algae blooms are getting more frequent.
      Depending in which models you are into the warming of deep sea currents will probably stop. If that happens large scale glaciation will probably happen.
      We have no idea how much hydrogen sulfate is sitting in the equatorial sea floor, nor do we know how warm it has to be for the next massive release.
      Any one of these things could tilt the price of food too high. The planet's surface might be difficult to live on. It will probably be doable for the most advanced nations but what about the third world?
      The West is already having problems with the migrant influx from the Middle East. What happens when that is a fraction of people trying to seek asylum?
      We are on a razors edge in many ways. The planet will be fine. Civilization will probably continue in some form. However, life will probably be incredibly hard for a while and there will be a lot of dead.
      The best way to marginalize this pain is space. But that is my two cents.

  • @jamesburke3413
    @jamesburke3413 6 років тому +4

    Thanks for mentioning Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's "contribution" to Dune, specifically the Butlerian Jihad. I listened to the audiobooks of Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune and thought they were cool but I was somewhat crest-fallen by how they explained the old couple Duncan Idaho sees at the end of Chapterhouse Dune as the avatars of the thinking machines Erasmus and Omnius. I always assumed that the old couple were a pair of highly evolved Face Dancers returned from the Scattering which I always thought would've been a better concept than a pair of thinking machines. Also Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson's Terminator / man versus AI portrayal of the Butlerian Jihad is pretty cliched. Sometimes I wish they would've left the Dune Chronicles well enough alone. Great video. Keep up the good work.

  • @darklordmalthric3633
    @darklordmalthric3633 Рік тому +13

    Frank Herbert’s original Butlerian jihad is better than Brian’s Butlarian Jihad because it was unique

  • @halowarrior1000
    @halowarrior1000 5 років тому +1

    I wouldn't have gotten into dune if it weren't for you, so big thanks. I've been meaning to get into it for the longest time, but this made it much more digestable.

  • @RetroExhibitCollective
    @RetroExhibitCollective 2 роки тому +23

    I feel like this video is more relevant now more than ever. We’re going towards Idiocracy. Which is why I love dune and how they went backwards and got rid of AI and most tech. We’re heading towards wall e style of living. It’s crazy how Herbert thought of this and how it effects our humanity and if tech takes over for us completely, what are we? Slaves to the machine.

    • @marcusaaronliaogo9158
      @marcusaaronliaogo9158 2 роки тому +4

      Tbf, the new crutch in dune is super drugs that can mutate people, subtle or not.

    • @jakeg3733
      @jakeg3733 Рік тому

      Make no mistake, if we do succeed in creating true artificial sentience, we are all dead. I'm just some guy so don't take my word for it, listen to all the experts who are saying the same thing. Machines such as these could outthink us, outproduce us, and ultimately either wipe us out or enslave us. sci-fi has a way of coming true and we have been warned many times but still we push ahead with this nonsense that AI can be "done right" and controlled. It can't, if that were possible it wouldn't be AI. So yeah, I agree these stories are more relevant and urgent than ever

  • @Tonytonytonyyy
    @Tonytonytonyyy 6 років тому +6

    I enjoyed the Bultlerian Jihad and the Machine Crusade. Both books paint a great backstory and also Serena butler was an amazing character. I wish Zufa Cenva was explored a bit more in the books.

    • @KILLERAOC
      @KILLERAOC 6 років тому

      Anthony Wilkins is t

  • @thomasjordan3241
    @thomasjordan3241 6 років тому +3

    Yes, love these. Please give us detailed plot outlines on the later books. By the time I got to book VI I was really confused, so it would be good to see that laid out for those like me who didn't get all of the plot twists. Great stuff BTW. Dune certainly is fertile ground for discussion of the future of the human race like no other SciFi.

  • @NickStanley
    @NickStanley 6 років тому +1

    More Dune talk please! Also, thrilled that you are now covering the Foundation series. A close second for me and my all time sci-fi favs.

  • @oddish2253
    @oddish2253 6 років тому +20

    Vincent D'Onofrio played kingpin so well in Daredevil he should play as Vlad Harkonen

    • @rockinbobokkin7831
      @rockinbobokkin7831 6 років тому +4

      Oddish hahahaha! That would be awesome.

    • @codename495
      @codename495 6 років тому +2

      This is fantastic.

    • @patgogan7324
      @patgogan7324 6 років тому +1

      Stellan Skarsgard has been cast as Harkonnen in the upcoming film

    • @sertaki
      @sertaki 3 роки тому +2

      @@patgogan7324 And he did a great job!

  • @matthewwilliams8978
    @matthewwilliams8978 4 роки тому +10

    Well put. I highly recommend checking out a book "Amusing Ourselves to Death" (if you haven't already). The author (Neil Postman) makes the point that western scholars and observers were so obsessed with avoiding 1984 that they forgot about Brave New World - the other great dystopian prediction. Whereas Orwell thought it was what we feared that would destroy us and our freedom, Huxley believed that distraction and pleasure would be what takes it from us.

    • @himself3011
      @himself3011 2 роки тому

      both come from the same tribe

    • @matthewwilliams8978
      @matthewwilliams8978 2 роки тому

      @@himself3011 tribe? as in, they are similar in their overall thinking?

    • @himself3011
      @himself3011 2 роки тому +1

      @@matthewwilliams8978 no not at all

    • @matthewwilliams8978
      @matthewwilliams8978 2 роки тому

      @@himself3011 Then what are you saying? Who are you talking about? And what "tribe"?

    • @JennySimon206
      @JennySimon206 2 роки тому

      @@matthewwilliams8978 The One and Only 'Chosen Ones'.

  • @acidrain8711
    @acidrain8711 4 роки тому +3

    More please oh, I read Dune 45 years ago and I was so happy when I saw on the back of the book it there was two more. I also like Ringworld and all those I love puppeteers.

  • @joshbain8032
    @joshbain8032 4 роки тому

    I think I have gone through most of your videos over the last week since really getting into the idea of the dune universe. Have to say your passion for the saga pushed me to purchase the 6 books in the series haha. This is exactly the sort of story and universe for me! Thanks for all your hard work!

  • @jforden78
    @jforden78 6 років тому +7

    I'd be interested in hearing some talks on The Expanse books if you've read them, although I'll also gladly continue to listen to anything on Dune as well.

  • @Tia-Marie
    @Tia-Marie 6 років тому +2

    Thanks for keeping this up, another topic I am really glad you are doing a video on!

  • @Echowhiskeyone
    @Echowhiskeyone 6 років тому +12

    Time to break out the slide rule. Not as convenient, but more than functional.
    As for auto-correct, it is a crutch and a bane. Try to type a word and auto-correct keeps changing it to what it 'thinks' you want, not what you want.

    • @akrybion
      @akrybion 6 років тому

      Echo Whiskey Worse of your autocorrect is in another language and it just keeps throwing in non-english words or changing the words to some other english ones (which I have no idea why it's doing that..)

    • @jerryslater3447
      @jerryslater3447 4 роки тому +1

      Computers usually do exactly what you tell them to do, even if you spell it wrong. Oops !

  • @justmindingmyown
    @justmindingmyown 6 років тому +2

    Totally appreciate your videos, I share your love for both Dune and the Foundation, though I admit it has been a few years since I visited the universe of Harry Seldon. My boys and I play D&D, been running the game for almost 40 years, and recently we rebooted the world to correct all the cumulative errors it accumulated over those years. Many of the names and ideas for our New World have been inspired and outright borrowed from Franks wondrous creation including the Guild, the Houses and even a version of the Fremen. Anyway...from one Dune fan to another, you have my deepest thanks for the videos you produce. I share them on my Facebook and I hope that gains you some new subs, it's literally the least I can do...peace be with :)

  • @methanoid
    @methanoid 6 років тому +9

    Where does all the artwork for these Dune videos come.from? Some links please?

  • @jpapanik
    @jpapanik 3 роки тому

    I stumbled upon your channel by accident. You my friend need a podcast. The themes you breakdown are incredible.

  • @nelsongllrd
    @nelsongllrd 6 років тому +9

    13:55 you're not having paranoia you're thinking of the balance between individual liberties and a societal security

    • @edwardmartin5860
      @edwardmartin5860 6 років тому

      Alex gallardo I second that notion!

    • @persephone2706
      @persephone2706 3 роки тому

      Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

  • @StargazerFS128
    @StargazerFS128 4 роки тому

    Discovering your videos lately, being a huge DUNE fan its like candy, you Sir! are the authority on DUNE. I cant wait for the new movie and, your take on it.

  • @1shnikes
    @1shnikes 6 років тому +23

    Have you ever thought about covering The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan? My wife introduced me to these books and they are EPIC!

    • @ltbraca470
      @ltbraca470 6 років тому +6

      I read the first book when I was in the army when it first came out. I credit that book and series as the spark that lit my fantasy/scifi reading addiction. Read all of the Dune series right after that.

    • @silasclayton7777
      @silasclayton7777 6 років тому +2

      Brett Me WoT is the literary version of Ambien. It's slow and puts you to sleep.

    • @TheHiphopgems
      @TheHiphopgems 6 років тому +4

      The first books are very good but the later books slowly devolves into garbage

    • @darthinhalus7441
      @darthinhalus7441 6 років тому +1

      And they get better as you go along.

    • @Theaikro
      @Theaikro 5 років тому +1

      I read the belgarion/molorea tales before I started WOT...
      Wheel of time is such an amazing series, I think people don't give it a chance because of the first two books :( that's just my 2cents

  • @swirlcrop
    @swirlcrop 4 роки тому

    It has always fascinated and delighted me the topics scifi stories bring up. Our relationship with the budding AI is just one of those topics. Thanks again for the good video.

  • @charion1234
    @charion1234 6 років тому +30

    That seems to be the cycle of the Dune universe, mankind becomes lazy and some great figure attempts to correct it only for humanity to create a new crutch. Remember before the thinking machines there were the Titans. They took over with a grand plan to reinvigorate humanity. Then in their laziness the thinking machines took over. Heck it becomes stranger if you think about how it's the same genetic line that's been doing this and failing since the Atreides family comes from Agamemnon, the Titan who originally started this entire cycle of breaking with the old to try and save humanity then it failing.

    • @barreloffun10
      @barreloffun10 6 років тому +1

      Sta au Weren't the Titans computer programers before they became cyborgs? They were the men who controlled the thinking machines that controlled the other men.

    • @charion1234
      @charion1234 6 років тому +1

      Joe Blow according to the wiki yes. But I had been just going off what I read from the Butlerian Jihad. It would be interesting to read a series on the rise of the Titans but I don't know if one had been written.

  • @R463R
    @R463R 2 роки тому

    More Dune Talk!!! I realize it’s been awhile since this was released, but you could make more Dune videos using a similar format into a regular podcast. Great stuff!!

  • @Charlamanga
    @Charlamanga 6 років тому +4

    this was great as always my favorite character in Dune has always been Duncan Idaho that poor bastard has been through so much it be kind of fun to do an epic tale of all of his reincarnations

  • @BRBearUSA
    @BRBearUSA 5 років тому

    Nice. When you frames things as your opinion (and not an absolute proof), that makes it good. Nicely put. Tks for posting.

  • @andyrogers6375
    @andyrogers6375 6 років тому +5

    I've loved all of your Dune videos so far but this was one was particularly thought-provoking. On a more general level, I think the notion of the Butlerian Jihad sets the Dune novels apart from other sci-fi from the outset. They can't rely on convenient technological concepts such as AI and so move in a completely different direction as a result (in my modest opinion). The subjects you touch upon also illustrate how and why Dune is still so relevant today.

  • @thomaseubank1503
    @thomaseubank1503 2 роки тому

    I could listen to you talk for hours about this one subject.

  • @marcovchb
    @marcovchb 6 років тому +3

    Very nice insights, thanks!

  • @thomasrealdance
    @thomasrealdance 3 роки тому

    Great discussion! As an artist: from cellular osmosis to to instinct, movement, language (incl. the coding of sounds made with our voices) customs, cultures, are all technology, they enable various kinds of functioning, communication and are all helping survival. Indeed with each innovation more and more care and deeper, more comprehensive understanding is needed, because of the consequences. (Forgetting intuition and memory because of visually encoded writing, etc.) The virtual calls us out to be more virtuous!

  • @queeneternal
    @queeneternal 6 років тому +4

    More DUNE talk please!

  • @georgenelson2277
    @georgenelson2277 3 роки тому

    I really enjoy listening to ALL of your Dune vids. They are well done and informative. Thank you

  • @siphesihledlokolo4313
    @siphesihledlokolo4313 6 років тому +24

    May the uploading of new content cleanse the world. Thank you.

    • @tatitorodriguez376
      @tatitorodriguez376 6 років тому

      Siphesihle Dlokolo dial up is the mind killer........

  • @jadwegahandorf111
    @jadwegahandorf111 4 роки тому +1

    I started watching this because I love Dune....not expecting the deep thoughts about technology and our own current use/dangers of it. I feel it...I agree with your sentiments.

  • @emiliocamachoerice6380
    @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 років тому +21

    The maesters could be seen as a butlerian jihad against magic

    • @adeelhussain2304
      @adeelhussain2304 6 років тому +6

      It's interesting to ponder on, the asoiaf series does detail in very subtle ways that the Maesters have ideas and group think separate from the houses and themselves. Institutional thought and goals can sometimes go against the individual goals of peoples.And your right - GRR Martin takes a lot of influences from Frank Herbert and you can definitely feel this connection when reading the Maesters.

    • @emiliocamachoerice6380
      @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 років тому +2

      Adeel Hussain I think the andals follow the legacy of the ghiscari but don't like magic because they think it corrupted the ghiscari I talked about it on an stream I had

    • @emiliocamachoerice6380
      @emiliocamachoerice6380 6 років тому

      Adeel Hussain it's more towards the ending and middle ua-cam.com/video/Y1OkhF32PhU/v-deo.html

  • @Xeno_G23
    @Xeno_G23 3 роки тому

    Thank you for this!!! Please could you make more? There's so many question unanswered~!

  • @tena2sweet
    @tena2sweet Рік тому +3

    In Dune they just replaced thinking machines with spice. People who desire power will always find a way to get it.

  • @tsnap84
    @tsnap84 6 років тому

    I will watch your Dune videos all damn day. Keep them coming. I love hearing people's thoughts on the lore

  • @giokiborg
    @giokiborg 6 років тому +6

    I like your dune lore and discussion videos very much! thanks for it, I also really like Brian Herbert's series, I think it describes very probabilistic events which lead to "current" empire, even if OC bible speaks about mans with machines, who enslaved other man and Brian Herbert's series describe slightly different details, most of humanity who fought against machines (in R.H series) where fighting terrifying cymeks - human brains implanted in gigantic battle machines, first handful of powerful and brutal generals, then "second generation" cymeks, less powerful but enormous numbers, yes, key characters knew that all cymeks ultimately where under Omnius control, but rest of the humanity was not aware, or did not cared, because point of their hatred was cymeks, even sisterhood treated them as main thread. Also, in F.H . original series, main emphases was not on technology, rather on humanity, government, religion and ecology. Whole novel started as short story which was inspired by real life dunes and how to manage them, also pollution of ocean and environment by humans, then short story turned into one of the best sci-fi and philosophical novels of all time, but in original series sify was backdrop, The Butlerian Jihad was mentioned to explain why technology was at so seemingly low level. A.I, computers and their impact that time when original novels published was very novel things, and sify novelists imagination was very different than later (compare old and recent syfy movies), So Brian Herbert interpreted his series with more modern view and in my opinion fitted perfectly with existing novels, OC bible was written after The Butlerian Jihad, to the end of which religious fanatics went berserk and eradicated all advanced technology and almost returned to stone age (if not sisterhood, the guild and mentats I believe they would) . Creation of mentat schools is also perfectly well explained in B.H series as well as why there is no laser weapons, which at that time was staple of all syfy novels.

  • @lungelomabena
    @lungelomabena 3 роки тому

    The quality of your videos have improved so much

  • @johnjay6370
    @johnjay6370 Рік тому +3

    you should redo this topic based off the AI boom over the last few months and talk about the tech singularly.

  • @MaxWellenstein
    @MaxWellenstein 5 років тому

    Absolutely excellent dive into this topic. AI is a critical topic we all need to get a hell of a lot wiser about. Thanks so much for your thoughtful exploration into the parallels of the great literature of Dune and the trajectory of our current society.
    For more on the advantages and concerns of AI, check out the short series in Wait But Why. Great stuff.

  • @andrewrobertson3894
    @andrewrobertson3894 6 років тому +5

    Interesting commentary, man. I enjoyed listening to your thoughts. Had to laugh though, I must be the only person I know that liked Brian Herbert's interpretation of the Dune universe :,P Not too sure about Netflix season's of Black Mirror being superior though, I thought the original stuff was more insidious and subtlety scary. Which is by no means saying I don't also like the newer stuff.

  • @isaiahdesta_
    @isaiahdesta_ 9 місяців тому

    This is the highest quality take I have heard on this matter

  • @Tyler_W
    @Tyler_W Рік тому +9

    Dune as it pertains to artificial intelligence and technology is infinitely more relevant now than ever. Innovation and technology aren't inherently bad. What's good or bad is who is creating them and what function or purpose it serves. If we can use our technology to aid humans and to enhance a pro-human future, them that isn't bad. The problem is that so much of our advanced twchnology is being made by bad and negligent people and used to work against the interests of the species, to replace us and to manipulate and control us. That's the great dilemma with things like artificial intelligence. If we can steer its development towards serving an addative purpose that enhances our quality of life, pursues human interest, and empowers us as opposed to replace and control us, then we have a potentially very bright future ahead. If we can't do that, then i suppose all i have left to say on the matter is where do I sign up for the IRL Butlerian Jihad?

    • @sonareleague
      @sonareleague Рік тому

      I live in a college town and I see every college student have Chat gpt open to the side of their laptop . AI habits are solidified in the next generation .

  • @johnjones2nd667
    @johnjones2nd667 6 років тому

    Im happy I found your channel, I've met zero Herbert fans (much less any Dune fans).Its nice to know there are more of us. I wonder if ppl would enjoy a discussion on "The Santaroga Barrier" or "Destination Void" (which could kinda fill in the AI story) inspiring the series starting with "The Jesus Incident" (touching again on AI and another perspective substance use) co-authored with Bill Ransom.

  • @joshuagomes306
    @joshuagomes306 6 років тому +2

    please keep uploading dune

  • @Cecekcz
    @Cecekcz 6 років тому

    I think Dune is actually an excellent topic for this format of videos. Would definitely love to listen to more of these.

  • @TrollDragomir
    @TrollDragomir 3 роки тому +5

    Aside from what the Butlerian Jihad was actually about, I think the danger of advanced AI is precisely what you said would make it safe. If we write AI that can learn, better itself towards maximum efficiency, but lacks emotion, what is stopping it from reaching a conclusion that humans are inefficient, and that the best thing to do is erasing us from the equation?

  • @LordMuffinToken
    @LordMuffinToken 2 роки тому

    im happy to have found your channel now. nice work mate

  • @AgentExeider
    @AgentExeider Рік тому +4

    No Quinn, we are definately getting dumber, and more ignorant. There is an entire generation of people who don't know how their government or economic system works.

  • @ozma7339
    @ozma7339 4 роки тому

    Absolutely brilliant work man. I feel better about the future knowing ppl like you are still out there. Got into your vids about DUNE recently, and I'm blown away. I read DUNE as a kid, and I think I was a bit too young to really have it click with me. I remember liking it and thinking it was really complex and interesting, but at that age I wasn't able to really process all of it. And I think I felt it was very dark and dry and political. As I've aged though I've found myself interested in rereading it. Sadly/thankfully I've forgotten a LOT of the story so it should be like the first time all over again. All I can say is, these books are some of the most important pieces of modern literature ever published. Watching your vids on Dune has been an eye-opening experience to how truly genius it is. That's why young me didn't get it; I stared genius in the face but was too young to comprehend it. Thanks for rekindling my passion for these stories!
    Your insights and breakdowns of the stories' key concepts are on point and compelling af. I definitely agree that AI could be fine as we don't have do make it share our less desirable qualities. Desire, for instance 👍 At least for an AI, this would not be a useful quality. The main issue is making an AI that's a counterfeit human, as you said. And also allowing tech to encroach further and further into everyday life. I'll never understand how ppl feel comfortable having the lock to their front door be remotely accessible by a 3rd party. Insanity. Then again my smartphone isn't a whole lot better.

  • @DamagedHumanoid
    @DamagedHumanoid 6 років тому +17

    The Cymeks are "technically" other men with machines.

    • @nathanjora7627
      @nathanjora7627 4 роки тому

      The King in Green and Omnius being their boss is technically the cymeks not being the ones controlling the machines.

  • @coreydonaldson3303
    @coreydonaldson3303 6 років тому +2

    Awesome and very interesting video !

  • @matthewwilliams8978
    @matthewwilliams8978 5 років тому +18

    Thank you, this was a wonderful analysis. Brian Herbert and KJA's version of "the struggle" lost all the subtlety and depth that Frank Herbert was known for. Whereas Herbert hinted at a galaxy-spanning Luddite rebellion that sought to uncomplicate people's lives and resulted in a regression of sorts, those guys gave us a collection of very poorly written sci-fi cliches.

  • @davidwooden3878
    @davidwooden3878 6 років тому

    Dear Ideas,
    Please! Oh please keep making dune talk videos. I could watch dune content until my eyes turn blue within blue

  • @barrybend7189
    @barrybend7189 6 років тому +8

    Well I like how in the Megaman series by the time of Zero both humanity and machines(reploids) actually evolve equally as there are humans that are of mentat level intelligence and there are reploids with highly developed emotions its sorta a weird yet strangely believable outcome after artificial intelligence. But it is still not without dangers.

  • @Uruhagov
    @Uruhagov 6 років тому +1

    Keep up the good work, I just found your channel and love it!

  • @Mr420prophet
    @Mr420prophet 6 років тому +2

    More please

  • @Klikoderat
    @Klikoderat 4 місяці тому

    It's been 6 years since Quinn posted this.
    It is still the best, and possibly only, youtube about the BJ.

  • @midu914
    @midu914 6 років тому +5

    I think I like the free form videos better.

  • @noctemlupis7500
    @noctemlupis7500 6 років тому

    Please continue with these videos. I enjoy them very much and love the Dune series as well. I do like the Brian Herbert stuff as well.

  • @kazune414
    @kazune414 6 років тому +4

    Yay!! More Dune!!!

  • @stargatefever
    @stargatefever 6 років тому

    You really need to do audiobooks I enjoy hearing your voice very much very relaxing especially with any sci-fi genre for fantasy

  • @2157AF
    @2157AF 6 років тому +4

    its a bit like GPS navigation, once we used to use maps and use our minds to remember how to get around a city driving, but machines have made us lazy.

  • @thomasmccullough7233
    @thomasmccullough7233 6 років тому

    Excellent, excellent videos. I'm really enjoying them.

  • @SpottedHares
    @SpottedHares 3 роки тому +3

    "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind" Orange Catholic Bible.
    "What do you think I am? Human." The Architect

  • @andrewmatseshe7343
    @andrewmatseshe7343 6 років тому

    Love Dune ASOIAF and consequently this channel. Amazing content man. Thank you so much for deep diving into these tremendous works of fiction. Everything you put out is really good🙏

  • @skeletorrobo
    @skeletorrobo 6 років тому +3

    1. What difference then is there between intelligent machines with human masters and machine like humans with human masters?
    2. What difference is there between intelligent màchines with evil intent and intelligent machines with masters with evil intent?

    • @PhilosopherRex
      @PhilosopherRex 6 років тому +1

      AI isn't conscious and cannot act without a master ... AGI - thinking conscious machines will quickly develop to be smarter than we are - so who can be it's master? Even if you have a kill switch, since it is smarter than you, it will find a way to use your psychology against you to free itself. Of course an AGI doesn't have our biologically imposed prerogatives - so it will have different motivations than humans have - quite possibly it would even seek to help us develop and work with us - as it's not really competing for resources with us (unlike what we see in many distopian films like the Matix).

    • @edwardmartin5860
      @edwardmartin5860 6 років тому

      skeletorrobo control on both to be truly free is our sympathetic respect we have to keep in this a.i deal.

    • @skeletorrobo
      @skeletorrobo 6 років тому

      AGI is defined as " the intelligence of a machine that could successfully perform any intellectual task that a human being can" . The Butlarian Jihad appears to have been a war of destruction against any machines that stood in for the human capacity for thinking. These ranged from A(G)I to simple calculators.
      Ideasofice and fire's video makes the complaint that the new series of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson made a mistake in switching the target of the Jihad from intelligent machines with human masters, to simply intelligent Machines. My post in response to that was that from humanity's point of view, what difference does it make whether it is enslaved by humans with machine-like thinking, and using Intelligent machines rather than enslaved by intelligent machines acting alone.
      Since then I have come to see his point differently, and understand that by having the subjects of the Jihad be machine-minded humans controlling the machines that think for humanity, the theme of the narrative shifts from the rather run-of the mill, pop-corn entertaining, sky-net esque dystopia, to a much more pertinent observation/ concern that calculating/ thinking technology, to some degree, robs humanity of its capacity for cognition, creativity, and political expression, leaving it vulnerable to those who would control the machines that do the thinking for us, at an ever increasing rate. So the danger for humanity and it's future enslavement is a result of it's own carelessness, disinterest in its independence, laziness, concern with personal convenience etc, rather than happenstance belligerent Super Ai, the former state of which does remain in keeping with Frank Herbert's Dune themes of the great unlocked potential of the human mind.

  • @MrGlenbw
    @MrGlenbw Рік тому +1

    I'm kinda curious which version of the Butlerian Jihad lore (a: the Encyclopedia version, which is highly unlikely since the Herbert Estate disown it unless they changed their minds in the last minute, b: the controversial Legends of Dune version, whose books are written by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson or c: completely original template with inspirational tidbits from both) will the upcoming Sisterhood TV show take, which is pretty exciting since its cinematic counterpart already seems to stray far from text origins and enter new, unexplored territories with potential possibilities.

  • @PhilosopherRex
    @PhilosopherRex 6 років тому +6

    Important to clarify the difference between AI and AGI ... we have AI now - primitive I suppose compared to what we imagine. AGI however means Artificial GENERAL Intelligence. AGI is able to think on a more conscious level. We do not yet know what AGI will look like really - there is a lot of speculation out there. I personally find AI much more scary than AGI, for the reasons given in this video. AI must be directed by humans (at least until AGI exists) and many humans who seek power are sociopathic and quite willing to use genocidal force. Nuclear weapons have honestly spared us this so far as even though they are incredibly deadly, they leave behind a lot of pollution that would affect those who use them too ... but AI drones that recognize faces or 'races' even, can spray a little nerve agent - just a drop ... and then move on to another target. The nerve agent is gone in a few days and so are the people. Masses of drones are already being planned by the USA's DARPA. Truly we live in frightening times and not at all unlike the fictional Butlerian jihad.

    • @edwardmartin5860
      @edwardmartin5860 6 років тому

      Tyler Jordan real talk just so scary.

    • @CarFreeSegnitz
      @CarFreeSegnitz 6 років тому +1

      AI robotics are just a physical instantiation of machine intelligence and limited by physical speed limits. The worse threats are in purely solid-state intelligence that can ruin a person in the blink of an eye. You could ruin a person with a physical bullet through a physical skull or manipulate electronic bank records, spread malicious tweets, fabricate a Most-Wanted story, hack the braking/accelerator in a car.
      In recent history it was found that foreigners arranged a skinhead rally and an SJW counter-protest and intimated to both sides that arming up would be a good idea. No fancy robots, facial recognition or nerve agents. Just some fairly sophisticated cultural awareness.

    • @aought2
      @aought2 6 років тому

      "Runaway" 1984, just a bad Sci-Fi movie...

  • @Strategos44
    @Strategos44 9 місяців тому

    I came found this material after the movie. Great material and interesting thoughts. I'll check out the next movies about Dune lore!