True. Ford Lightning is the only car that has V2H I think. Cars like the EV6 and Ioniq 5 only have V2L and this would not work with them. I hope people don’t go out buying this stuff and then realizing it doesn’t work cause the car doesn’t support the tech.
One of the best videos that you have ever produced! Congrats on the informative video. Congrats to Enphase on their breakthrough device. Can we create a list of EV makes and models that talk to the Enphase bidirectional controller?
Agreed! Just read on Enphase site that their bi-directional charger will "Turn any EV into a power source." And they have indeed combined the System Controller into the Charger to have just one unit on the wall. This will be available in 2024. Exactly when??? BIG question is, will this be compatible with most PV systems other than Enphase solar panels?
Congratulations Joe for this superb video. I'm an Electronic Engineer and have to congratulate also Mohammed and Enphase for this clever development. You are the best in the market. Now the bad (but good) news. I'm also an amateur trader and have to say: What the hell is goin with the ENPH quotation! I'ts a full dissaster ... so a really great opportunity!
Looks like Enphase's new Bidirectional Charger only works with the newer System Controller 3 and new 5P Battery. So this also means you have to upgrade the AC Combiner to 5C since all the newer boxes use communication wires to communicate with each other whereas the older System Controller 2 used wireless. So any one with a 10T Battery, AC Combiner 4C and System Controller 2 will have to upgrade which is expensive replacing 3 components. Also they appear to only support CHAdeMO which is on Nissan Leaf, and CSS, and now Ford, GM, and Rivian are all going to build new cars with Tesla's NACS charging connector so they have access to Tesla's Super Charger network which Enphase isn't supporting in their Bidirectional Charger. In addition NACS doesn't seem to support vehicle to grid charger for a Home Battery at present from what I understand, but it seems it could since it supports DC or AC power transfer. Eventually Tesla will support vehicle to grid, and will do so over NACS which will definitely be in DC mode @ 350V-400V since this is the DC voltage of a Tesla Battery, but Enphase's IQ8's support only 52V to 79.5V DC not 400V DC. This means Enphase would have to design new iQ8's supporting 400V DC input for NACS. Also none of Enphase's newer components are for sale yet in the U.S. although they are on their Enphase Store at present. Enphases Bidirectional Charger also appears to be a large box like the System Controller 2/3 which is disappointing since it will take up a lot of wall space and other Bidirectional Chargers are a lot smaller.
Sign Me Up! Already have the IQ8’s and Encharge 10T’s… just need this now. Enphase needs to publish an Enphase Test/Approved Seal of Approval for EV’s/Hybrids that have been certified to work with the system so we can have confidence in the vehicle we buy.
Have Enphase said that this will be compatable with SC2 and 3T/10T? Their white paper only shows SC3 and 5P compatability...? If this is not backwards compatable this would be extremely disappointing and a tick against Enphase.
I'll echo most of the other comments for kudos to the video and info given. Outstanding explanations! We're Enphase attached at home and am looking forward to the further development of the Enphase system as well as having Rivian turn on the bidirectional function through CCS when the process matures a little more. I get that Tesla will most likely balk, but when the CCS connection has matured a bit, we're in! Thanks Mohammed and Joe! 🙂
We need this on NACS! In 1 year America is transitioning into NACS. Please adapt it to NACS as soon as possible. * I believe since this is interfacing in DC, we won't even need any modification in the Tesla onboard charging circuit. NACS protocol charges in DC at the super-chargers. If this is true, it should be easily adaptable to interface in DC with right communication (currently open sourced). 👍
not exactly. Enphase needs to work with the Tesla engineers, the NACS connector supports both AC charging (if the car senses AC, it routes power to the onboard chargers), if the car senses DC, it connects to the 400V battery directly, and expects a DC fast charger (SuperCharger). I believe they’ll have to run it in DC mode, where power can flow in either direction, so they’ll need to provide DC power t charge the vehicle batteries, and if power goes out, the DC power can flow from the car to the house, on those rare ocassions
@@johnhaller5851 I drive and have owned my 2012 Tesla Model S, it has 115,000 miles on it. I often charge it to %90 or higher, battery has lost about %10 of original capacity over the 11 years. There is NO issue with cycling Tesla batteries, especially now with improved chemistrys. Tesla was concerned people would Supercharge the cars (free, my early Model S has unlimited free supercharging), and then connect them to their houses to power them up.. with so much home solar, that isn’t much of a concern any longer. Tesla will participate in V to G, especially now that their NACS standard us replacing CCS on Fords and GM’s vehicles starting in 2024/2025
This is incredible. It turns EVs from an electric burden into a serious boon. Every homeowner with PV and EV will effectively not have a power bill anymore, and furthermore they can be serious net contributors to the local power grid.
Fisker supports bidirectional from the factory however there are some things we need to take into account. The major one is electrifying the grid during an outtage. We dont want to be shocking our lineman so a proper disconnect will be needed.
This is a prototype, right? What is the target timeframe for the final product? Will you be able to purchase 1 bi-directional charger and have it charge different types of cars supporting different charging standards (e.g., CCS, Chademo, NACS, etc)? I ask in part because the demo had two SEPARATE chargers....one for CHADEMO and one for CCS. Obviously that is less than ideal...for households that may have different EVs with supporting different charging types or for upgradeability if you chose to sell one EV and move to another one with that supports a different standard. And the bi-directional charger box is HUGE...I assume because it is merely a prototype. And will there be a model that you can plug into a NEMA-14-50R? Or must it be hardwired to the panel? I was planning to add a NEMA-14-50R plug with my Solar System installation as future proofing for when I eventually purchase an EV...but maybe that is not a good idea as my future car/charger may only come in a hardwired configuration. Thoughts?
I'm envisaging having my car as an additional/alternative battery. This setup seems to be car battery only. I think that an additional / seperate piece of kit for the bidirectional part of the system, rather than this which seems to mean that I have to change my whole existing system. There seems to be a bit of duplication, which is obviously going to be more expensive than just adding a box to any existing system. A lot of existing hybrid inverters are able to take in an alternative supply like a generator, I was thinking that this is how my car battery would connect into my system. An AC supply from my car that would just supplement my batteries when they fall below say 50%.
Yes, but this is designed to more than that. If you want the car battery to just be used as a basic generator, several vehicles can do that from their onboard AC inverters. But what this is looking to do is to also charge up the battery, such as when you have a solar enphase system. Basically could get you endless runtime if your solar output is more than your home draw per day.
@@billjohnson3344 Thanks Bill. What this appears to be doing (to be honest I didn't think that it's process was very well explained) is to be a level3 DC charger, as well as use that DC power to supply the home. I don't see having just the car battery for any reliable system. It must have a home battery as well. The car is obviously not always going to be there and in the event of an outage the home needs to function. Therefore the car is best suited to be an additional/reserve battery. In other words, when sizing your battery needs you wouldn't need to factor in additional costs for batteries to run the home for those occasions when the grid was out for an extended period, or to factor in the possibility of having an extended period of weather with really low solar production (assuming that the home has panels). While I think that DC charging is handy to have in the home, putting aside the additional code requirements and permits etcétera, along with the faster degradation of the battery, I think that any limited advantage is outweighed by having an AC bidirectional charger which will be easier to use and connect with existing systems throughout the world. This seems to be an ideal option for new industrial/commercial operations, rather than domestic. Perhaps that's their market.
@@simonpaine2347 Sure, a stationary home backup solution is good also. Advantage of the vehicle is you have a giant battery, for much less cost versus a stationary battery. And if you have solar, no worry about depleting that - unless for an extended time of poor solar output - and in which case most people might decrease their consumption to compensate. I'm sure this enphase setup will work with their home battery also. Ford's released system can also support stationary backup, as will GM's upcoming release.
@@billjohnson3344In the event of low solar output could a standby generator be used to recharge the batteries? Shure wood make that five or six gallons of gasoline last a lot longer.
Should be stablished a obligatory V2H protocol to follow from all electric car manufacturers, them if they want to add on top their own protocols it is up to them, but this technology has so much potential for the society, that we should ensure any electric car user will have the option to have his enormous car battery at his disposal
Bidirectional is the single most want desired facility in the UK with Nissan Leaf owners, and Kia Soul owners, as proven by the Fully Charge Team. I for one, are using this with a Setec 6kw unit with my 2015 Leaf, it runs our ASHP over the winter months on cheap over night energy all day long. However this mobile device is not ideal, but the Enphase described here would be far better and less hands on. When can it be launch in the UK with single phase 240v version and work with any existing battery storage systems. Because unfortunitly like so many companies they make to work only with thier own Enphase solar home battery products, big misttake!!!!
Wow this system is exactly what I have been waiting for. I have been waiting for an adaptive system that will only take the excess energy fro my solar and put it in the car. Now the question is can I modify my MACH-E to do this...
Ford's Intelligent Home Backup system will be extended to the Mach-E sooner than this will launch. If you have enphase solar this system is good, but otherwise the Ford system is likely coming sooner - and cheaper.
@@billjohnson3344 I'm not in a hurry. This is going to happen. I'm expecting all of the other battery backup systems are going to move to this. If I'm going so spend the money on a battery backup system, this nemZero feature is a must...
This was really impressive capabilities. Having 75 - 100 KW of batteries sitting in your garage ready to be used is a big deal. Plus, you could drive it someplace that still has power to charge it in the worse case scenario. One thing that I think is a little goofy is the ability to charge your car off your own solar. That might be nice to go to a cocktail party and tell everyone that you charge your car on green energy, but what you are really doing is forcing the electric company to make more power during the day using their peak energy plants versus charging at night when the load on the electrical system is low and they are using their most efficient energy plants
This is very much a standards scramble for system dominance like Beta v VHS only with more parameters (AC v DC charging X com standard X cable standard X vehicle support level X ...). I think quickly the vehicle support yes/no question will switch to Yes across the board due to market demand. Lots of fermentation need he before it's ready for prime time
Can a video be done discussing the Tesla and NACS connector? The US is 70% Tesla cars and the NACS connector will be the standard . It would be beneficial to know how the system could work or will work with this connector as the other two connectors are outdated and will be gone in the near future.
I have a spark ev i sont drive as much as j used to and i would absolutely use the heck out of the battery with this and my solar. . Curious the price. About Half way thru the video..... Dont have my hopes up...
Enphase made the marketing rounds Feb 2023 for this. I assume it still isn't ready as I couldn't find any pricing anywhere online. Lots of backup opportunity given the relatively large size of EV batteries today. I don't think I'd want to use it regularly given risk of battery degradation but it could be a good backup as long as it isn't more expensive than a backup natgas generator.
A needed and desired functionality by many. Some graphics support would make presentation and understanding better. Hopefully a professional video forthcoming. Schedule for of commercially availability and cost should be included.
I believe that the charger design includes 6, 8X micro inverters. This will limit maximum power transfer rate between the EV and the system controller power to 3.84 kWatts, the maximum sustained capacity of the 6 inverters. This is the same limit applies for a single 5P battery but that scales with the number of batteries. Many V2G car batteries are capable of charging and discharge rates that are higher, with a few capable of sustained bidirectional V2G transfers up to 10 kWatts. Could it be that my assumption regarding the micro converter configuration is not correct? That’s hard to know, given the limited description available so far. I sure hope so. A 3.84kWatt discharge limitation out of a 100kWatt-hour EV in a home like mine that hits peak hourly demand of 10kWatt-hours would require the need for 2 extra chargers attached to 3 extra cars or at least 2 IQ 5P batteries running in parallel with what the charger can deliver. Better, I think, would be a charger with more inverters, higher capacity inverters or some combination of both. I’m thinking between 6 and 8, 8XX micro-inverters rated at 1.28 kWatt each might be close to the sweet-spot, balancing the redundancy of more inverters and better matching it to the capacity of a 100 kW-h car battery. Better, how about a bi-directional charger that can accommodate variable micro inverter configurations, depending on customer need, just like solar panel count?
It would be nice if camera showed the screen that he is referencing Also is it optimal to use iQ inverter on PV panel with this system - dc-ac-dc Great video regardless
@@SolarSurgeill you follow-up with Mohammad about this? Many Auto manufacturers have pledged to use NACS with 2025 model years within the last 5 weeks. Thank you.
The physical plug is less of a challenge than the communication protocols to allow Enphase equipment to interface with the various DC batteries offered in different EVs.
Ask I have asked on a few videos I really want to find out if this will work with the F150 lightning. Currently it supports bi-directional CCS. How close is this product getting to market? Need any testers?
Integrate well - no. Work together, yes. enphase works best with their own components, as they can curtail microinverter production of the solar. In the case where you have power walls (and an outage), they will make your house be a microgrid. The enphase system will just think it is in a grid connected mode in that case. If the power walls get too full, the AC frequency will shift and the ephase system will disconnect. The powerwalls will then continue to supply power alone, until getting to a level where recharge is needed and the enphase system can reconnect and use vehicle power to charge your powerwalls. It all kinda will work, but not so clean nor seamless.
Car manufactures are moving to NACS charging which does not allow for bidirectional charging, in America so will this work. I am in the uk so hopefully it will come here. I have an old Ensign pv system, which would also need to be changed to accommodate any new enphase products.
8:00 you asked if it can work with either an AC or DC battery. I may be wrong about this but I am pretty sure all batteries are DC and you need an inverter to make the AC power.
Some batteries have the inverter built in which outputs A/C, others (hybrid inverters) make use of the solar inverter where you control the Batterie through their interface. That can be a problem if you tell the car EVSE to charge from solar but not from the Batterie. The EVSE can not distinguish between Solar or Batterie, the CT clamp can not read DC.
I have questions: Lets say I have my car plugged in. The battery back-up system is at 10% Do you have the ability to prioritize the battery over the car? i.e. let the battery get fully charged before sending energy to the car?
Since the charging and discharging of the EV should make it more efficient, as there should be less losses from DC to AC conversion? Also, it should be possible to charge the EV at a faster rate than via AC 25kwh
I would like to know if: System Controllers available today will be the one used or will there be a newer model? If it's the current model would that need to be the 3 or 3g if I still wanted to have a generator connection available. What would be their ETA for availability for CCS? What is the expected cost?
Will this be backwards compatable with SC2 and 3T/10T? There are alot of thoes systems currently deployed... Enphase needs to make a good decision here.
I want an AC battery. That would save a ton of money in converting it back in forth between the car and the house...but the motors are dc, lights and pretty much all other electrical items , so they'd have to convert the AC coming from the battery to it...aarrgg! Also, I would like more info on using my EV for home protection. Does that involve firearms, or are we talking tasers. Does the car drive around the property in high alert when we lose power?
Is the bi-directional charger compatible with Teslas? This is a great concept because it provides redundant battery capacity to the house and increases the vehicle charge rate utilizing the house bank. Additionally this, if programmable, would allow charging @ low nightly $ rates, and selling capacity to the grid @ high peak $ rates. The reason the Tesla question is so important is that the Tesla Charging System is becoming the official charging protocol in the USA for all EV’s. 😎
I wonder with a lot of the manu's and ev suppliers will be mandated to allow for bi-directional power flow, e.g. NACS be mandated by IEEE standards to support bi-direction flow. Because right now I don't think Tesla home wall chargers and ev's allow for this.
My question would be if i have an existing emphase system with the enphase switch, combiners, and 30kw of battery backup do i need the entire bi-directional charger?
I got all excited about this tech when Nissan first announced it. Now it turns out there's no "vehicle standard", and you have to buy another/newer vehicle that has it... and the tech isn't available on the less expensive EVs... I think you have to shell out at least 50k for the car alone... then there's the cost of the Gizmo. 😞 I'm thinking there just needs to be a "high voltage port" that you can wire into your inverter...
That's basically what this is doing - telling the car to expose the battery via the CCS high-voltage terminals. It then tells the home inverter how much it can draw, and how much it can accept. But sure, you could simplify this if you only wanted to draw power and not recharge over DC. That's effectively what Ford's system does today, at $4K for the home equipment (inverter and auto-transfer switch).
Isn't Enphase's strength with microinverters a disadvantage here? DC power from solar is converted to AC and then back to DC to be stored in a home battery. It gets pulled out and converted to AC and then back to DC to charge a car. Finally it gets pulled back from the car and converted to AC to run a house. This results in 5 conversions instead of 1. Instead of microinverters we could use optimizers, keep the whole solar, battery and car system DC and used a single, more efficient inverter. This means we'll have to install more panels, more batteries and more microinverters. I can see how this benefits Enphase but not the consumer.
Nice demo, but surprised enphase continues to use IQ8 microinverters inside this system - as they do with their batteries. Makes for a bigger and more expensive solution, and pretty poor continuous power and surge capacity also. Surely enphase can instead design a more powerful single inverter for such a setup?
A single inverter is a point of failure that the iq8 setup reduces as multiple micro inverters can be taken out of the system and home power still be produced.🤔👍
@@michaeldautel7568 What you describe is useful for hard to get to individual solar panels on a roof. Makes limited sense for a failed component on the ground like an inverter which is easy to change out. I prefer a solid product design that doesn't fail.
It was quite overwhelming to process all that information in one go. I can see that having two protocols might cause some problems, almost like the "beta" versus "VHS" battle of the past. It's interesting to know which protocol they were referring to in relation to Tesla vehicles, but it's worth noting that the test car shown in the video wasn't actually a Tesla. Speaking of my solar system, I have 18 400-watt solar panels and an Enphse combiner box. I understood that there are two possible configurations for my system: 1. Charging the car exclusively. 2. Charging the car while also providing backup power for my home. I'm actually interested in adding the ability to charge my Tesla using this new product, but I'm not sure which components would need to be added for that purpose. I'll have to find out more or wait for updates to get a clearer picture. Also, in case I decide later on that I want to add backup power to my system and be able to provide electricity to my home when needed, I'd like to know what options and components would be necessary for that upgrade. Thank you great info looking forward to your response.
As yet, Tesla's do not have the necessary internal protocols to enable bidirectional systems to work. Apparently they are working on it, but they are reluctant to do it, because it would effect the sales of Powerwalls.
Enphase really should solve the problem of IQ7 micro inventor firmware upgrade to support Enphase bidirectional EV charging. Also, everyone knows that in North America, EV is going to NACS charging standard (Tesla charging standard). Nissan leaf is the history along with Chadmore DC charging. At this point, CCS1 station DC and J1772 home AC are the most EVs charging. Ford F150 lightning does CCS1 DC home reverse charging and J1772 AC home charging. EGMP Platforms EVs are J1772 bidirectional AC home charging that includes Hyundai IONIQ5, IONIQ6, IONIQ7, KONA, KIA EV6, EV7, EV9, NIRO, Genesis GV60, GV70, GV80, GV90. For home bidirectional charging, 80 AMPs 240V level 2 AC J1772 is the most cost effective solution. We do not need home DC bidirectional charging that will be thousands dollars of expensive solution.
The grid is a massive infrastructure. $TRILLIONS to finance and also needs $100BILLIONs in cashflow. Decades to build, 10 Decades. $30,000 new supply from grid tells you that the grid is expensive. 5cents feedin vs 50cents supply kWh tells you the grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive. And grid electricity is the smallest part of energy used. 15% of all energy used. 100% grid electricity energy is economically impossible. No grid electricity, rooftop PV, and a Battery Vehicle parked 23hrs every day and all night will kill the National Grid cashflow.
@@SolarSurge Thank you. That's unfortunate, because I just installed an IQ System Controller 2 with an Enphase battery 10T ten months ago... Are you sure Enphase hasn't got an upgrade solution for the IQ System Controller 2?
As yet, Tesla's do not have the necessary internal protocols to enable bidirectional systems to work. Apparently they are working on it, but they are reluctant to do it, because it would effect the sales of Powerwalls.
My understanding is that NACS is capable of bidirectional, but it's not currently supported by any Tesla vehicles. So I expect to see bidirectional NACS in the future.
My understanding is that California is working towards mandatory bidirectional capability on all EV sold.This should force Tesla to comply. I would like to know why Tesla does not support this already?
It's a shame that this has to be a "deal". Just enable V2-whatever and be done. Grid issues can be solved in a few short years with clean energy this way.
Same thing as if the grid went down and you had no backup solution - the house would loose power. There are safety measures in place the prevent connector removal until unlocked, and which case the inverter ceases to draw power to prevent any arcing. No different than when plugged into a DC fast charger in this regard and you go to unplug the car.
@@tarant315 The car controls the lock. But in any case it doesn't matter, since the enphase system has a dark start battery to supply power to the logic - as mentioned in the video. No cables need to be cut or harmed.
No I don't think so. Enphase has made some mention of backwards compatibility, but what I hear from the installers is everything needs to be on the IQ8 platform.
@@SolarSurge If true, then in my opinion an Enphase only system is a really short sighted move. There will DEFINITELY be a bidirectional charger that can just be added to virtually any existing system. It might only work on AC, but that's going to be fine for majority of people. Also I'm not sure if residential insurance will cover DC charging equipment in a home environment.
The big problem with this charger is the car industry is changing to teslas nacs and going away from ccs until they change to that standard this charger is useless
A bad looking "pure" sine wave. Way over complicated system that is trying to do everything. Have a simple Vehicle to Load output and hook it up to a Transfer switch and box with multiple circuits in it so one can select between grid power and V2L. Enphase is way overpriced and complicated
Bravo Joe, you are now the inside man;) Thank you for accepting the invitation:) Extremely informative.
Great presentation / demonstration. Love to see this product launched in Europe
We need the automobile companies to support this. And it should not depend on a cloud connection, as that can go away during an outage.
Nissan did it. Nissan only need thermal management and it's then the king of EVs
True. Ford Lightning is the only car that has V2H I think. Cars like the EV6 and Ioniq 5 only have V2L and this would not work with them. I hope people don’t go out buying this stuff and then realizing it doesn’t work cause the car doesn’t support the tech.
Cyber trucks have vehicle to home charging
One of the best videos that you have ever produced! Congrats on the informative video. Congrats to Enphase on their breakthrough device. Can we create a list of EV makes and models that talk to the Enphase bidirectional controller?
2nded. Maybe a new video when the list is updated? Outstanding presentation. Thx!
Agreed! Just read on Enphase site that their bi-directional charger will "Turn any EV into a power source." And they have indeed combined the System Controller into the Charger to have just one unit on the wall. This will be available in 2024. Exactly when??? BIG question is, will this be compatible with most PV systems other than Enphase solar panels?
I’m all in and will purchase this Enphase product ASAP. Holding off on new model 3 until it’s compatible!!! Go Enphase!!
Congratulations Joe for this superb video. I'm an Electronic Engineer and have to congratulate also Mohammed and Enphase for this clever development. You are the best in the market.
Now the bad (but good) news. I'm also an amateur trader and have to say: What the hell is goin with the ENPH quotation! I'ts a full dissaster ... so a really great opportunity!
Looks like Enphase's new Bidirectional Charger only works with the newer System Controller 3 and new 5P Battery. So this also means you have to upgrade the AC Combiner to 5C since all the newer boxes use communication wires to communicate with each other whereas the older System Controller 2 used wireless. So any one with a 10T Battery, AC Combiner 4C and System Controller 2 will have to upgrade which is expensive replacing 3 components. Also they appear to only support CHAdeMO which is on Nissan Leaf, and CSS, and now Ford, GM, and Rivian are all going to build new cars with Tesla's NACS charging connector so they have access to Tesla's Super Charger network which Enphase isn't supporting in their Bidirectional Charger. In addition NACS doesn't seem to support vehicle to grid charger for a Home Battery at present from what I understand, but it seems it could since it supports DC or AC power transfer. Eventually Tesla will support vehicle to grid, and will do so over NACS which will definitely be in DC mode @ 350V-400V since this is the DC voltage of a Tesla Battery, but Enphase's IQ8's support only 52V to 79.5V DC not 400V DC. This means Enphase would have to design new iQ8's supporting 400V DC input for NACS. Also none of Enphase's newer components are for sale yet in the U.S. although they are on their Enphase Store at present. Enphases Bidirectional Charger also appears to be a large box like the System Controller 2/3 which is disappointing since it will take up a lot of wall space and other Bidirectional Chargers are a lot smaller.
I'm pretty sure that big box in the video is an engineering prototype, not the final retail unit.
Sign Me Up! Already have the IQ8’s and Encharge 10T’s… just need this now.
Enphase needs to publish an Enphase Test/Approved Seal of Approval for EV’s/Hybrids that have been certified to work with the system so we can have confidence in the vehicle we buy.
Have Enphase said that this will be compatable with SC2 and 3T/10T? Their white paper only shows SC3 and 5P compatability...? If this is not backwards compatable this would be extremely disappointing and a tick against Enphase.
I'll echo most of the other comments for kudos to the video and info given. Outstanding explanations! We're Enphase attached at home and am looking forward to the further development of the Enphase system as well as having Rivian turn on the bidirectional function through CCS when the process matures a little more. I get that Tesla will most likely balk, but when the CCS connection has matured a bit, we're in! Thanks Mohammed and Joe! 🙂
Excellent presentation. Thanks for the detailed info on the operation/integration of the b- directional charger.
We need this on NACS! In 1 year America is transitioning into NACS. Please adapt it to NACS as soon as possible.
* I believe since this is interfacing in DC, we won't even need any modification in the Tesla onboard charging circuit. NACS protocol charges in DC at the super-chargers. If this is true, it should be easily adaptable to interface in DC with right communication (currently open sourced). 👍
NACS plug uses the CSS protocol, so they dont have to adapt anything, just change the cable or use an adapter
not exactly. Enphase needs to work with the Tesla engineers, the NACS connector supports both AC charging (if the car senses AC, it routes power to the onboard chargers), if the car senses DC, it connects to the 400V battery directly, and expects a DC fast charger (SuperCharger). I believe they’ll have to run it in DC mode, where power can flow in either direction, so they’ll need to provide DC power t charge the vehicle batteries, and if power goes out, the DC power can flow from the car to the house, on those rare ocassions
I haven't seen Tesla with bidirectional charging, I think Tesla is concerned with wearing out their battery before the warranty ends.
@@johnhaller5851 I drive and have owned my 2012 Tesla Model S, it has 115,000 miles on it. I often charge it to %90 or higher, battery has lost about %10 of original capacity over the 11 years. There is NO issue with cycling Tesla batteries, especially now with improved chemistrys. Tesla was concerned people would Supercharge the cars (free, my early Model S has unlimited free supercharging), and then connect them to their houses to power them up.. with so much home solar, that isn’t much of a concern any longer. Tesla will participate in V to G, especially now that their NACS standard us replacing CCS on Fords and GM’s vehicles starting in 2024/2025
This is incredible. It turns EVs from an electric burden into a serious boon. Every homeowner with PV and EV will effectively not have a power bill anymore, and furthermore they can be serious net contributors to the local power grid.
Fisker supports bidirectional from the factory however there are some things we need to take into account. The major one is electrifying the grid during an outtage. We dont want to be shocking our lineman so a proper disconnect will be needed.
Terrific content, I am currently planning our install and planning on going to this once Hyundai supports v2h.
I want this ASAP.
I want a bidirectional charger bad. Such a great technology!
Great stuff!! Get Enphase to test with an ID4 equipped with new v3.5 software ("allows" bidirectional charging up to 10kW).
Joe they need to Higher You! Great video👍
Wish i could see more videos like this. On UA-cam. Lots of good info.
This is a prototype, right? What is the target timeframe for the final product? Will you be able to purchase 1 bi-directional charger and have it charge different types of cars supporting different charging standards (e.g., CCS, Chademo, NACS, etc)? I ask in part because the demo had two SEPARATE chargers....one for CHADEMO and one for CCS. Obviously that is less than ideal...for households that may have different EVs with supporting different charging types or for upgradeability if you chose to sell one EV and move to another one with that supports a different standard. And the bi-directional charger box is HUGE...I assume because it is merely a prototype. And will there be a model that you can plug into a NEMA-14-50R? Or must it be hardwired to the panel?
I was planning to add a NEMA-14-50R plug with my Solar System installation as future proofing for when I eventually purchase an EV...but maybe that is not a good idea as my future car/charger may only come in a hardwired configuration. Thoughts?
I'm envisaging having my car as an additional/alternative battery. This setup seems to be car battery only. I think that an additional / seperate piece of kit for the bidirectional part of the system, rather than this which seems to mean that I have to change my whole existing system. There seems to be a bit of duplication, which is obviously going to be more expensive than just adding a box to any existing system.
A lot of existing hybrid inverters are able to take in an alternative supply like a generator, I was thinking that this is how my car battery would connect into my system. An AC supply from my car that would just supplement my batteries when they fall below say 50%.
Yes, but this is designed to more than that. If you want the car battery to just be used as a basic generator, several vehicles can do that from their onboard AC inverters. But what this is looking to do is to also charge up the battery, such as when you have a solar enphase system. Basically could get you endless runtime if your solar output is more than your home draw per day.
@@billjohnson3344 Thanks Bill. What this appears to be doing (to be honest I didn't think that it's process was very well explained) is to be a level3 DC charger, as well as use that DC power to supply the home.
I don't see having just the car battery for any reliable system. It must have a home battery as well. The car is obviously not always going to be there and in the event of an outage the home needs to function. Therefore the car is best suited to be an additional/reserve battery. In other words, when sizing your battery needs you wouldn't need to factor in additional costs for batteries to run the home for those occasions when the grid was out for an extended period, or to factor in the possibility of having an extended period of weather with really low solar production (assuming that the home has panels).
While I think that DC charging is handy to have in the home, putting aside the additional code requirements and permits etcétera, along with the faster degradation of the battery, I think that any limited advantage is outweighed by having an AC bidirectional charger which will be easier to use and connect with existing systems throughout the world.
This seems to be an ideal option for new industrial/commercial operations, rather than domestic. Perhaps that's their market.
@@simonpaine2347 Sure, a stationary home backup solution is good also. Advantage of the vehicle is you have a giant battery, for much less cost versus a stationary battery. And if you have solar, no worry about depleting that - unless for an extended time of poor solar output - and in which case most people might decrease their consumption to compensate.
I'm sure this enphase setup will work with their home battery also. Ford's released system can also support stationary backup, as will GM's upcoming release.
@@billjohnson3344In the event of low solar output could a standby generator be used to recharge the batteries? Shure wood make that five or six gallons of gasoline last a lot longer.
@@ChasL704seems inefficient, though? At that point, just run the appliances you need of the generator and hope that solar comes back in time.
Right?
Should be stablished a obligatory V2H protocol to follow from all electric car manufacturers, them if they want to add on top their own protocols it is up to them, but this technology has so much potential for the society, that we should ensure any electric car user will have the option to have his enormous car battery at his disposal
Joe... keep up the great work ....is the bidirectional available yet
Bidirectional is the single most want desired facility in the UK with Nissan Leaf owners, and Kia Soul owners, as proven by the Fully Charge Team. I for one, are using this with a Setec 6kw unit with my 2015 Leaf, it runs our ASHP over the winter months on cheap over night energy all day long. However this mobile device is not ideal, but the Enphase described here would be far better and less hands on. When can it be launch in the UK with single phase 240v version and work with any existing battery storage systems. Because unfortunitly like so many companies they make to work only with thier own Enphase solar home battery products, big misttake!!!!
Thanks Joe and Mohammad.
Oklahoma needs this. Places with overhead power lines are sitting ducks.
Wow this system is exactly what I have been waiting for. I have been waiting for an adaptive system that will only take the excess energy fro my solar and put it in the car. Now the question is can I modify my MACH-E to do this...
Ford's Intelligent Home Backup system will be extended to the Mach-E sooner than this will launch. If you have enphase solar this system is good, but otherwise the Ford system is likely coming sooner - and cheaper.
@@billjohnson3344 I'm not in a hurry. This is going to happen. I'm expecting all of the other battery backup systems are going to move to this. If I'm going so spend the money on a battery backup system, this nemZero feature is a must...
This was really impressive capabilities. Having 75 - 100 KW of batteries sitting in your garage ready to be used is a big deal. Plus, you could drive it someplace that still has power to charge it in the worse case scenario.
One thing that I think is a little goofy is the ability to charge your car off your own solar. That might be nice to go to a cocktail party and tell everyone that you charge your car on green energy, but what you are really doing is forcing the electric company to make more power during the day using their peak energy plants versus charging at night when the load on the electrical system is low and they are using their most efficient energy plants
I wonder if the available PV is more than the house load operating off grid will the system start charging the car battery again?
This is very much a standards scramble for system dominance like Beta v VHS only with more parameters (AC v DC charging X com standard X cable standard X vehicle support level X ...). I think quickly the vehicle support yes/no question will switch to Yes across the board due to market demand. Lots of fermentation need he before it's ready for prime time
Can a video be done discussing the Tesla and NACS connector? The US is 70% Tesla cars and the NACS connector will be the standard . It would be beneficial to know how the system could work or will work with this connector as the other two connectors are outdated and will be gone in the near future.
bi-directional charging on Tesla hasn't been an option.
Tesla has the Power Wall market and this would conflict with that product! I don't think Tesla has any intention of making thier cars bidirectional.
Cyber truck has v2g from what I heard
Congratulations enphase bleeding edge
I have a spark ev i sont drive as much as j used to and i would absolutely use the heck out of the battery with this and my solar. . Curious the price. About Half way thru the video..... Dont have my hopes up...
also have a Spark EV and curious...sounds like Chademo much easier.
excellent demonstration gentlemen. Amazing Flexibility and system intelligence. I learned alot~ !
Enphase made the marketing rounds Feb 2023 for this. I assume it still isn't ready as I couldn't find any pricing anywhere online.
Lots of backup opportunity given the relatively large size of EV batteries today. I don't think I'd want to use it regularly given risk of battery degradation but it could be a good backup as long as it isn't more expensive than a backup natgas generator.
Does the bidirectional charger work on every EV or does it only work with EV which itself is capable of bidirectional charging? Thank you.
Take my money... F'n take it now and give me one of these bad larrys!
A needed and desired functionality by many. Some graphics support would make presentation and understanding better. Hopefully a professional video forthcoming. Schedule for of commercially availability and cost should be included.
Love your videos wish Tesla would allow this
I believe that the charger design includes 6, 8X micro inverters. This will limit maximum power transfer rate between the EV and the system controller power to 3.84 kWatts, the maximum sustained capacity of the 6 inverters. This is the same limit applies for a single 5P battery but that scales with the number of batteries.
Many V2G car batteries are capable of charging and discharge rates that are higher, with a few capable of sustained bidirectional V2G transfers up to 10 kWatts. Could it be that my assumption regarding the micro converter configuration is not correct? That’s hard to know, given the limited description available so far. I sure hope so.
A 3.84kWatt discharge limitation out of a 100kWatt-hour EV in a home like mine that hits peak hourly demand of 10kWatt-hours would require the need for 2 extra chargers attached to 3 extra cars or at least 2 IQ 5P batteries running in parallel with what the charger can deliver. Better, I think, would be a charger with more inverters, higher capacity inverters or some combination of both. I’m thinking between 6 and 8, 8XX micro-inverters rated at 1.28 kWatt each might be close to the sweet-spot, balancing the redundancy of more inverters and better matching it to the capacity of a 100 kW-h car battery. Better, how about a bi-directional charger that can accommodate variable micro inverter configurations, depending on customer need, just like solar panel count?
Will Enphase have NACS adapters?
Half way through and still haven’t discussed elephant in the room. Tesla and NACS!
Yes
It would be nice if camera showed the screen that he is referencing
Also is it optimal to use iQ inverter on PV panel with this system - dc-ac-dc
Great video regardless
What about NACS?
Good question. We need buy in from more industry players so that we can agree on a standard.
@@SolarSurgeill you follow-up with Mohammad about this? Many Auto manufacturers have pledged to use NACS with 2025 model years within the last 5 weeks. Thank you.
Adapters will be needed.
I suspect that by the time bidirectional charging is supported on a relatively wide range of EVs, the US standard will be NACS.
The physical plug is less of a challenge than the communication protocols to allow Enphase equipment to interface with the various DC batteries offered in different EVs.
I assume they will now offer NACS
When can I get this for Rivian? I already have an emphases solar system and getting a rivian this summer
Ask I have asked on a few videos I really want to find out if this will work with the F150 lightning. Currently it supports bi-directional CCS. How close is this product getting to market? Need any testers?
Great video! Thanks
Will this charger integrate with a Tesla solar system with power walls and use with a 62kW Nissan Leaf
Integrate well - no. Work together, yes. enphase works best with their own components, as they can curtail microinverter production of the solar. In the case where you have power walls (and an outage), they will make your house be a microgrid. The enphase system will just think it is in a grid connected mode in that case. If the power walls get too full, the AC frequency will shift and the ephase system will disconnect. The powerwalls will then continue to supply power alone, until getting to a level where recharge is needed and the enphase system can reconnect and use vehicle power to charge your powerwalls. It all kinda will work, but not so clean nor seamless.
I want this now :) ... how long before this will be available to add to my Enscape PV and house battery setup?
Which CCS cars are capable of doing this?
Car manufactures are moving to NACS charging which does not allow for bidirectional charging, in America so will this work. I am in the uk so hopefully it will come here. I have an old Ensign pv system, which would also need to be changed to accommodate any new enphase products.
The screen is being overpowered by the light reflection would be interesting to block the reflection. Nice explanation though.🤔
8:00 you asked if it can work with either an AC or DC battery. I may be wrong about this but I am pretty sure all batteries are DC and you need an inverter to make the AC power.
Some batteries have the inverter built in which outputs A/C, others (hybrid inverters) make use of the solar inverter where you control the Batterie through their interface. That can be a problem if you tell the car EVSE to charge from solar but not from the Batterie. The EVSE can not distinguish between Solar or Batterie, the CT clamp can not read DC.
I have questions: Lets say I have my car plugged in. The battery back-up system is at 10% Do you have the ability to prioritize the battery over the car? i.e. let the battery get fully charged before sending energy to the car?
Since the charging and discharging of the EV should make it more efficient, as there should be less losses from DC to AC conversion? Also, it should be possible to charge the EV at a faster rate than via AC 25kwh
Agree, IF I buy an EV it would be a good upsell for it to be BiDirectional... how much do these cost though?
I would like to know if:
System Controllers available today will be the one used or will there be a newer model?
If it's the current model would that need to be the 3 or 3g if I still wanted to have a generator connection available.
What would be their ETA for availability for CCS?
What is the expected cost?
Will this be backwards compatable with SC2 and 3T/10T? There are alot of thoes systems currently deployed... Enphase needs to make a good decision here.
I want an AC battery. That would save a ton of money in converting it back in forth between the car and the house...but the motors are dc, lights and pretty much all other electrical items , so they'd have to convert the AC coming from the battery to it...aarrgg! Also, I would like more info on using my EV for home protection. Does that involve firearms, or are we talking tasers. Does the car drive around the property in high alert when we lose power?
Nice, but nobody uses CHADEMO so you really need to get the CCS car OEMs to put the bidirectional capability in their cars.
Is the bi-directional charger compatible with Teslas?
This is a great concept because it provides redundant battery capacity to the house and increases the vehicle charge rate utilizing the house bank. Additionally this, if programmable, would allow charging @ low nightly $ rates, and selling capacity to the grid @ high peak $ rates.
The reason the Tesla question is so important is that the Tesla Charging System is becoming the official charging protocol in the USA for all EV’s. 😎
Teslas, the cars, do not support bi-directional charging. Tesla, the company, is estimating that'll be coming in 2025.
I wonder with a lot of the manu's and ev suppliers will be mandated to allow for bi-directional power flow, e.g. NACS be mandated by IEEE standards to support bi-direction flow. Because right now I don't think Tesla home wall chargers and ev's allow for this.
Hey, this is a great video. Do you know if this works with the 2021 ford mustang Mach E?
My question would be if i have an existing emphase system with the enphase switch, combiners, and 30kw of battery backup do i need the entire bi-directional charger?
We have 3 ea. Sol-Ark 12 inverters. Is the system different if Sol-Ark equipment is installed?
it's a pity you could not afford two microphones for the video
I got all excited about this tech when Nissan first announced it. Now it turns out there's no "vehicle standard", and you have to buy another/newer vehicle that has it... and the tech
isn't available on the less expensive EVs... I think you have to shell out at least 50k for the
car alone... then there's the cost of the Gizmo. 😞
I'm thinking there just needs to be a "high voltage port" that you can wire into your inverter...
That's basically what this is doing - telling the car to expose the battery via the CCS high-voltage terminals. It then tells the home inverter how much it can draw, and how much it can accept. But sure, you could simplify this if you only wanted to draw power and not recharge over DC. That's effectively what Ford's system does today, at $4K for the home equipment (inverter and auto-transfer switch).
Will this work with a system control 2? Can't get an answer anywhere!
Great 👍
Isn't Enphase's strength with microinverters a disadvantage here? DC power from solar is converted to AC and then back to DC to be stored in a home battery. It gets pulled out and converted to AC and then back to DC to charge a car. Finally it gets pulled back from the car and converted to AC to run a house.
This results in 5 conversions instead of 1. Instead of microinverters we could use optimizers, keep the whole solar, battery and car system DC and used a single, more efficient inverter.
This means we'll have to install more panels, more batteries and more microinverters. I can see how this benefits Enphase but not the consumer.
Competition will fix that!
Bidirectional is essential for the NACS to be a true standard.
Nice demo, but surprised enphase continues to use IQ8 microinverters inside this system - as they do with their batteries. Makes for a bigger and more expensive solution, and pretty poor continuous power and surge capacity also. Surely enphase can instead design a more powerful single inverter for such a setup?
A single inverter is a point of failure that the iq8 setup reduces as multiple micro inverters can be taken out of the system and home power still be produced.🤔👍
@@michaeldautel7568 What you describe is useful for hard to get to individual solar panels on a roof. Makes limited sense for a failed component on the ground like an inverter which is easy to change out. I prefer a solid product design that doesn't fail.
👍
I wonder if Tesla will come onboard with this ? Who would ever buy a powerwall if you can just use your Tesla car ?
Chademo and Ccs are the dominant charging standard protocol? LOL! You’re in a bubble if you believe that.
The reason why they are using Chademo, is that all Chademos can do bidirectional, very few CCS can cope with it, and zero Tesla's can currently do it.
So the vehicle we buy needs Chad Mo ??? Battery Operating System?
It was quite overwhelming to process all that information in one go. I can see that having two protocols might cause some problems, almost like the "beta" versus "VHS" battle of the past. It's interesting to know which protocol they were referring to in relation to Tesla vehicles, but it's worth noting that the test car shown in the video wasn't actually a Tesla.
Speaking of my solar system, I have 18 400-watt solar panels and an Enphse combiner box. I understood that there are two possible configurations for my system:
1. Charging the car exclusively.
2. Charging the car while also providing backup power for my home.
I'm actually interested in adding the ability to charge my Tesla using this new product, but I'm not sure which components would need to be added for that purpose. I'll have to find out more or wait for updates to get a clearer picture.
Also, in case I decide later on that I want to add backup power to my system and be able to provide electricity to my home when needed, I'd like to know what options and components would be necessary for that upgrade.
Thank you great info looking forward to your response.
I would be very surprised if this works with Tesla in the near future for anything other than charging your car with an adapter.
As yet, Tesla's do not have the necessary internal protocols to enable bidirectional systems to work. Apparently they are working on it, but they are reluctant to do it, because it would effect the sales of Powerwalls.
Tesla uses the NACS system in the US, not CCS or CHADEMO. Tesla's do not provide vehicle to grid.
Enphase really should solve the problem of IQ7 micro inventor firmware upgrade to support Enphase bidirectional EV charging.
Also, everyone knows that in North America, EV is going to NACS charging standard (Tesla charging standard).
Nissan leaf is the history along with Chadmore DC charging.
At this point, CCS1 station DC and J1772 home AC are the most EVs charging. Ford F150 lightning does CCS1 DC home reverse charging and J1772 AC home charging. EGMP Platforms EVs are J1772 bidirectional AC home charging that includes Hyundai IONIQ5, IONIQ6, IONIQ7, KONA, KIA EV6, EV7, EV9, NIRO, Genesis GV60, GV70, GV80, GV90.
For home bidirectional charging, 80 AMPs 240V level 2 AC J1772 is the most cost effective solution. We do not need home DC bidirectional charging that will be thousands dollars of expensive solution.
The grid is a massive infrastructure.
$TRILLIONS to finance and also needs $100BILLIONs in cashflow.
Decades to build, 10 Decades.
$30,000 new supply from grid tells you that the grid is expensive.
5cents feedin vs 50cents supply kWh tells you the grid makes dirt cheap electricity expensive.
And grid electricity is the smallest part of energy used. 15% of all energy used.
100% grid electricity energy is economically impossible.
No grid electricity, rooftop PV, and a Battery Vehicle parked 23hrs every day and all night will kill the National Grid cashflow.
Can the System Controller 2 by used with Bi-Directional EV Charger or is an upgrade to the Controller 3 required?
I believe you need to upgrade to the new IQ System Controller 3 so that you can make sure of CANbus communications.
@@SolarSurge Thank you. That's unfortunate, because I just installed an IQ System Controller 2 with an Enphase battery 10T ten months ago... Are you sure Enphase hasn't got an upgrade solution for the IQ System Controller 2?
will it work with a tesla?
As yet, Tesla's do not have the necessary internal protocols to enable bidirectional systems to work. Apparently they are working on it, but they are reluctant to do it, because it would effect the sales of Powerwalls.
Interesting how chadamo is bidirectional but car manufacturers are switching to Tesla own proprietary which I think is not bidirectional connector?
My understanding is that NACS is capable of bidirectional, but it's not currently supported by any Tesla vehicles. So I expect to see bidirectional NACS in the future.
My understanding is that California is working towards mandatory bidirectional capability on all EV sold.This should force Tesla to comply. I would like to know why Tesla does not support this already?
I’m under impressed. If Enphase can work a V2H deal with Tesla, wake me up then.
It's a shame that this has to be a "deal". Just enable V2-whatever and be done. Grid issues can be solved in a few short years with clean energy this way.
What would happen if you unplug the car while the house is getting power from the car?
Same thing as if the grid went down and you had no backup solution - the house would loose power. There are safety measures in place the prevent connector removal until unlocked, and which case the inverter ceases to draw power to prevent any arcing. No different than when plugged into a DC fast charger in this regard and you go to unplug the car.
The connector is looked, you need to cut the cable
@@tarant315 Partly true. When you push the button, power is safely stopped, and the lock is released.
@@billjohnson3344 Not on the DC connector on the fast charger. You have to wait for the release. Not sure if it is the car or changer who controls it
@@tarant315 The car controls the lock. But in any case it doesn't matter, since the enphase system has a dark start battery to supply power to the logic - as mentioned in the video. No cables need to be cut or harmed.
Tesla doesn’t support that?
Will this work with iq7+
No I don't think so. Enphase has made some mention of backwards compatibility, but what I hear from the installers is everything needs to be on the IQ8 platform.
@@SolarSurge If true, then in my opinion an Enphase only system is a really short sighted move. There will DEFINITELY be a bidirectional charger that can just be added to virtually any existing system. It might only work on AC, but that's going to be fine for majority of people. Also I'm not sure if residential insurance will cover DC charging equipment in a home environment.
CHAdeMO is going the way of the betamax, we'll need a NACS solution.
Dumb reference to BETAMAX.
Why Tesla does not support V2G bidirectional charging? Tesla is lagging in this technology.
the EV and Charger communication should be via Bluetooth, lets forget wires for such and use cables only for power
Do you support Tesla, without that this product has zero chance of success
The big problem with this charger is the car industry is changing to teslas nacs and going away from ccs until they change to that standard this charger is useless
Not a single word about NACS/Tesla compatibility? boooo!
Please invest the money from my view and like in proper microphones 😢
A bad looking "pure" sine wave. Way over complicated system that is trying to do everything. Have a simple Vehicle to Load output and hook it up to a Transfer switch and box with multiple circuits in it so one can select between grid power and V2L. Enphase is way overpriced and complicated
Nice Video !
Waiting for the same from @Solaredge 😅