Thanks Solar Surge, for your commentary on my video 🙏 Tesla is certainly the battery manufacturer to beat 😃 I have another Powerwall 3 video, which talks about the basics of the product for anyone who wants to watch it...
Thanks for your superb work @GaryDoesSolar. I’ve been following your reports from California and somehow you’ve got the best information on PW3 I’ve seen to date. Joe at Solar Surge is very savvy to put the spotlight on your excellent report from earlier this month, which gave me hope that I can AC couple Tesla PW3 on my existing 27.3kW DC IQ8A DIY system although with some limitations. I’ve heard the industry has many new systems in the pipeline, and I’m hoping for something spectacular from FranklinWH and Enphase to answer the fantastic PW3.
@@miltonhare2461Thanks for your very kind words 🙏 And definitely! Tesla setting a high bar for the others to try and beat - exactly the way a free, competitive market should operate. The overall winner of course will be the customers 💪 😀
Thanks for being such a good sounding board on this video. I catch just about every Solar Surge and Gary Goes Solar video that comes out to make sure I keep abreast of the tech as we prepare to go solar here in Oklahoma! Thanks to you both!
I am in California, got few quotes for Solar. I was debating between a AC couple system like Enphase vs Tesla DC couple system. Eventually decided on 1 PW3 with 17 REC 430W panels. It should offset about 85% to 90% usages. The PW3 is outdoor rated, so installer just put it next to the garage.
Why would you use a system that offsets only 85-95% of usage??? And why would you use a Tesla battery instead of 25-year warrantied microinverters, and 15-year warrantied matching batteries? And why would you not have a 30-year warranty? And why would you not mention anything important about what you did or why except the 430 Watt REC's? Answer? because the companies failed to help you see what's REALLY going on with solar power!
@@autotecni batteries are not part of a solar power system. They are a gadget. They have a max 15 year warranty. If you can't figure out the financials and get tricked into a lease or PPA- then they can be pulled into the 25 year coverage on that- but that's a real if, maybe,. wait and see kind of thing- will that company be around? PW3 has the lower range of warranty and the added detraction of a string inverter linked it that will likely change over time, etc. How long have you lived there?
I'm getting two Powerwall 3s right now and they are using the Tesla Backup Switch, no Gateway. This installer has done it several times already. Will be commissioned tomorrow.
I was wondering about this, thank you. It was my understanding that its use is allowed as long as your service is 200A or less and your utility has it approved as a disconnect means, which not all have approve it yet.
@@taylorlightfoot Yes, it has to be approved by your utility and the requirements can be different. For instance in some places you need a separate disconnect for each Powerwall and a rapid shut down button. I only need the rapid shut down button. And yes, the Tesla Backup Switch only works on a 200amp or less service. If you have a larger one, you need a second meter socket installed but it can be done. They're working on the regulations in my area for that, but I have a 200amp service so it didn't affect me.
I have a few technical questions: 1. What happens WHEN the built-in inverter stops working? Do we need to replace the entire unit, or can the inverter portion be replaced without needing to replace the entire unit? 2. Can a single PW3 plus 2 or 3 DC Expansion units be installed with a backup switch collar and support (full) home backup without needing to install a backup tesla gateway (along with a critical load subpanel)? 3. Are the DC Expansion units installed conncted in serial (to the PW3 unit)? If so, will that introduce any issues of the lowest capacity one not allowing to use the others efficiently?
3: DC expansions are just that:DC EXPANSIONS. They won't need to convert to AC until power is sent to the home thus helping efficiency. Since there's only one inverter, you're able to stack 52kwh off one PW3, but it'll still max out at 11.5kw continuous. If you had 4 PW3's you'd still have 52kwh of battery, but 46kw continuous.
Agreed! With many homeowners now owning EVs, one PW3 is likely not enough for their power needs, especially if they are in an area that has frequent blackouts and rely on the Powerwall for energy security. 65-70% of homes would be covered like the video mentioned but Tesla’s claim of 90%+ with one PW3 in their latest video is generous. We love Tesla and their innovative products but thank you for your honesty Solar Surge!
I think we're all underselling the value of the collar. Anyone with a larger home knows that energy backup systems (battery or generator) severely limit the number of "circuits" in the critical load panels, that cause massive extra cost to rewire, and almost always leave the homeowner wanting more. (Your house probably wasn't wired with critical loads in mind, so you have to sacrifice which breakers will get backup juice and which won't). Having the main switch between the meter and main box is the only way these should have ever been setup in the first place. This should more than cut the installers time in half.
I have two power wall threes, if one fails I have the other one that can provide power. If I add two more power wall threes without the inverter and one of my power wall three fails, I would be down to two power walls to supply by house since each of my original power wall 3 has the non-inverter power wall attached to it directly. Am I correct in these assumptions? Thank you for your analysis. System is up and running it’s beautiful.
I’m curious of the future of using EVs instead of dedicated batteries for home battery backup and grid independence/ surge pricing avoidance. I’m moving to Tucson and will consider getting solar but also considering a Silverado or 150 Lightning truck. I’d love to leverage those very large capacity batteries for such a purpose in lieu of buying dedicated home batteries. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you for the information very well done. I’m looking at a solar system. Ground mounted, and most likely will do the Tesla power three will keep you posted.
6:29 this was all I was waiting to hear! Even Elon Musk couldn't have marketed this product as convincingly as this Englishman (with a wee Scottish accent)!
you can install up to 4 Powerwall 3 units on a single Backup Gateway or Backup Switch. Once DCX is launched we expect that you'll be able to add 3 DCX units per PW3 (total of 16 units).
Does it have black start capability? I mean if I lose grid and the batteries die, will they restart when the sun comes up or do I have to wait for the grid to come back up?
I plan on replacing my solar inverter with one of these as it was meant to integrate with string panels easily. Might hold off due to small capacity. I get that it’s a bit bigger than previous generations but the people who had the powerwall2 had 2-4 of them installed. There’s a lot of positives but the capacity is the dealbreaker. I also dislike how you have to choose between the power or extended usage, it’s like creating a problem that never existed because a larger capacity would solve that dilemma.
Hello I am looking to add battery storage to my solar system and possible adding more panels . The question I have is what the best outdoor battery I can get and the cost. My system is a solar edge system and I am not happy with the inverter solar edge used. I am also having trouble with the system connecting to the app because solar edge used a 3g cell service and most carriers no longer service. Are there any work around?
So, I checked with my utility and they said the collar wasn't allowed between their meter and the meter socket. Ok. Fine. But what is stopping me from coming out of the utility net meter into a separate customer owned meter/meter socket and putting the collar on that meter, then running from there to the Powerwall?
We like the Panasonic evervolt system, much more capability and modular battery, generator support and whole house back up with load shedding all built in. Tesla has many complaints online about service accessibility,
In Australia where i am, 45 deg C is possible and 40 plus normal regularly in peak summer so i have a dedicated air conditioned room set at 25 deg C for my (pylontech) batteries and inverter (MPP Solar 11KW) that runs sundown to sunup and 10kW of grid connected inverters to allow export (5kw export shaped) The hotter it gets the more sun and the average solar install these days is 10kw plus of (unshaded) solar panels which are needed as the efficiency drops off from them the hotter it gets. The heat pump Hot Water Systems use very little energy when it's hot and the modern inverter air conditioners have EER's (energy efficiency ratios ) of 3-4 for the larger units and up to 5 for the smaller bedroom units. So at the hottest time of day/year you will get 10Kw from the 12Kw of solar with 4Kw used for a/c and heat pump with 6Kw still left for everything else like the house baseload, cooking and water pumps (for those on acreage) as well as charging batteries. Having 22Kwh of batteries means the a/c and cooking and the house base load can run right through the night until sunup and the cycle then repeats. No grid power is consumed. I know it sounds crazy but those on the grid here with 10kw plus of solar and batteries along with subsidies and rebates have $2000 or more in credit as they export their surplus solar (while it lasts) and use very little of the grid power at all. When those subsidies and rebates and exports are no longer creating credits then the grid can be turned off completely with a phone call.
I've been trying to like the PowerWall3. I think it needs a generator input and a built-in web interface. I think the lack of these features is why the powerwall3 has such a good price.
Wait so you cant use Powerwall as a backup if you need more than 1 installed and supplying power at the same time? I have a 600A service and would need 3-4 Powerwalls, seems like there would be no backup ability really then for me.
We have a 17 year old 3.2 kw solar system from Solar City (later acquired by Tesla) with the original Xantrex inverter. Would the PW3 be able to replace our existing inverter, as well as be connected to an additional new Solar System (thus expanding our total solar output)? If so, it can then also provide us with storage and backup!
You don't use anything on the panels. Microinverters are designed to bring AC from each panel down to your fuse panel. With the PW3 you can wire the strings of panels right to the battery. If you already have a system with microinverters or an existing string inverter, you can use the Tesla Gateway to AC couple to the batteries, but you lose energy in the multiple conversions.
I have two Powerwall 3s and one Backup Switch. One Powerwall is the lead battery and the other is the follower. I have multiple panel strings going to each battery but the AC goes to the lead battery.
I am more interested in getting 2 powerwalls and running my portable generator to recharge it when needed. Basically just need energy continuity in case of outage. Getting solar plus enough batteries to go off grid will burn a hole in my wallet.
Get more quotes, that seems kinda high. I think even Tesla directly is cheaper, let alone a third party. I'm having 4 installed for about double your price, not in OK, but still.
Don’t forget bidirectional charging that’s way simpler than any other system with the Cybertruck and soon the rest of their lineup! With Tesla you just need the powerwall (or gateway 3) and universal wall charger… that’s it.
V2H will be a great service. I have no need for a Cybertruck, but have an X and a 3. It bothers me that we have an additional 150+ kWh of power in the garage we cannot use to power the home. Instead, we are limited to the 28 kWh we have in the 2 Powerwalls, 24 inches away from the vehicles.
@@JBoy340aagreed. I’m waiting for the manufacturers to release power control systems that provide: 1) high capacity V2H bidirectional charging 2) auxiliary portable/low cost generator connection to directly charge the battery, where the battery is sized to handle the full surge power/LRA requirements of HVAC/well pump etc. but the generator can be relatively small without needing to handle large surge loads. 3) easy expansion, relatively low 50-100lb battery component weight 4) large capacity meter collar, ideally compatible with 400A service. 5) black start for AC coupled batteries using generator power or reserve battery capacity (or some way to warm the batteries other than wood fires which is exactly what some people were doing with Tesla PW2 a few years ago). 6) support for multiple demand side tap connected PV connections inside the meter, as FranklinWH does now with aPBox, which allows up to three solar PV arrays to be connected and controlled by one aGate system controller. FranklinWH, Enphase and Tesla already have great LFP systems with high surge power - hopefully someone decides that large rural ranches are worth some engineering effort. At this point it looks like FranklinWH is in the lead, but no one has everything yet, at least from the major players.
It is certainly a step in the right direction following in the footsteps of Chinese Hybrid inverters and AIO systems. What’s missing it ability to connect in front of main service panel using 200amp bypass relays in the event the house draw exceeds the max KW output of their internal inverter. I also didn’t hear about connecting an AC generator to a std feature of a true hybrid. It’s not innovation but more catchup to where the industry is outside of USA. I bet if someone does a tear down you’ll find Chinese LFp cells from CATL, BYD, or similar. Curious how make the inverter too.
@solarsurge, Greetings from Puerto Rico, new suscriber here. what is the price for one of this PB3 in the Mainland? And, Can I buy one there and have ship here? My question comes because they are selling the PB2 here at a very high price. Thanks for sharing this video!!
That video title left me scratching my head. More cost-effective designs in solar isn’t “backwards”. It’s more the case that variables driving the decisions have changed. PV panels are far more resilient in face of shading, and high string count with low panel per string count becoming more feasible is shifting the balance vs cost/drawback of having power electronics up on the roof
Question about AC coupled vs DC coupled and solar… Living in NJ with a “net metered” solar system that’s been running for 12 years. Part of the payback is avoided electricity cost from the utility at 20 cents per kW hr. Also part of payback is SRECs at $200 per every kW hr of solar produced or another 20 cents per kW hr. for a total of 40 cents per kW hr for EVERY AC kW hr. my solar inverter produces per year for 15 years. At 7000 kW hrs per year that is 7000 * .40 = $2800 per year. Does the PW3 simply decide and manage how solar energy is providing for charging batteries or providing for site demand to avoid using grid power and does it get full credit for every AC kW hr produced like me AC solar system or will I lose some or all of the SREC revenue I currently enjoy? If lost, does it make sense to leave the AC net metered solar system as is with my revenue grade monitoring system measuring every AC kW hr produced and installed a PW2 or 3 simply for whole house backup?
I wouldn't want an integrated battery and inverter its less flexible, buying a product just because its easy to install seems a bit backwards to me . Buy a product for many reasons but never ease of install, id rather pay slightly more and it takes slightly longer as long as it meets my needs for the many years of use. Im not saying its a bad product , im not saying it may not be right product for you .
So the battery alone is 7 grand for the US. For argument's sake you could easily get 2 and almost 3 ecoflow delta ultra batteries and 2 would be very close to the capacity of the powerwall 3 and they are compact. And if you really want a wall mounted battery the EG4 PowerPro is 14kw at 3500 right now.
@@boblatkey7160 EG4 has a 10 year warranty dude. I wouldn't call that cheap hobby gear. And EcoFlow has a 5 year warranty. Stuff can break even Tesla powerwalls
@@boblatkey7160 no surprise that's all you've got when you just realized the EG4 has the same warranty as your beloved powerwall without all of the requirements they put in front of it to get the full 10 years. It helps to read. "to secure the full 10-year warranty for Powerwall 3, it must be reliably connected to the Internet to allow remote firmware upgrades from Tesla. If an Internet connection is not established or is interrupted for an extended period, and Tesla is unable to contact you, the warranty may be limited to 4 years."
I just dont understand why they arent making 20kWh batteries or larger at this point. Would be cheaper to buy 2 20kWh batteries than 3 13kWh batteries.
Unfortunately, meter collar still isn't permitted here in FL, so stuck with the Gateway for our installs. Do you think Tesla will allow homeowner DIY installs of expansion packs in the future?
Thank you. I think you added a bit of value to the original video. Nonetheless, it does seem like you should just have made your own video rather than simply add a few comments and call it your own. I appreciate that you included the link to the original channel but I couldn’t easily find a link to the original video itself. I appreciate your video and the added insight but it just feels like you are largely stealing the work this guy has done. I hope you don’t take this very personally. I’m just describing how this appeared to me. I like your channel. It has good information.
What do battery equipment prices or features in the UK or Australia have to do with residential solar power in the USA??? Answer? Absolutely not a thing!
Didn’t Tesla battery stop working during the Texas power blackout because, after two days, they could not contact Tesla HQ. Apparently this had something to do with contact being required for warranty coverage. So no Tesla for me ever.
Sounds like it may be an issue with “black start”. If you fully drain the battery, the panels wont work. Franklin reserves a portion of its pack to start up after draining, and Enphase can black start fully drained.
Considering lfp has a well proven track record over the last decade it surprises me how bad and expensive corporate products have been and still are, even a noob like me was able to build a whole system operating flawlessly for 5 years so far for less than 1/3 the price of a bought one using prismatic cells. Since then it has only become cheaper and vastly easier to do using the all in one inverter/charger units and once Sodium ion batteries achieve scale it will be get to another level of affordability which will likely be the mass adoption tipping point taking pressure of wallets and the grid. Billions will become energy producers and exporters making utility company extortion days numbered.
Get Sol-Ark 15K and add in three 5Kwh Pytes Batteries. Much more Power, does all the same things, just as reliable, same warranty, better customer support and you are not locked into Internet nanny and limited installer choices. Plus yes a generator can be hooked up and be fully auto started when needed.
But why don't they say that the PW3s are essentially a string inverter setup? There is no DC power optimizers on individual panels and wouldn't that mean they're as strong as the weakest link in the chain? With multiple arrays on certain roof faces that may have overhanging tree branches - wouldn't it exacerbate that issue unlike let's say microinverters that would compensate for that?
That’s a very minor concern for contemporary PV panels. The diode bypass circuitry that’s on any panel that you should consider installing, anyway, mitigates shading issues to the degree it doesn’t really matter for output. The only thing you’re missing is easier troubleshooting if one of the panels breaks, or a wire connection fails. With support for 6 strings, and minimum string voltage of 60V you can design your system around some very gnarly shading concerns
You can have six string inputs per PW3. So if you have panels on different roof planes, you separate them. Same with shading issues. I just had two PW3s installed with my two existing solar systems. The older 10-panel array is one string and the 27-panel newer array, all on one roof plane, was broken into 4 strings due to shading of one section at certain times of year. The bypass diodes on the panels should negate any serious legacy string system problems. I had Enphase microinverters on the old system and SolarEdge inverter on the newer system. I've had failures of both sets of inverters in the 7 years I've owned the place. Only time will tell if my production suffers with the new layout. I'll probably be adding additional panels to another roof plane to generate power over a wider time period and it's super easy to add more strings to the PW3s. It's just the panels and wiring as I still have 7 more string inputs open.
@@aoeuuaoaou yeah, except there's one inverter and they fail far more than micros. Why introduce this design flaw? With less warranty? it makes no sense at all. Why encourage massive diversity of equipment and technology??? Why??? They mostly introduced this battery to switch chemistry! The rest is just a distraction. These are cheaper, faster, easier install for installers- but that's not what makes something good for you as a homeowner!!!
@IKidTheSolar So you’ve got the secret to making the world so much better but you can’t share it? Yup, sounds totally legit. *Jennifer Lawrence thumbs up* LOL
you should have added a segment to show USD costs. Not sure what 5,500 British pounds and 800 British pounds equates to. Also what is the installation cost on avg and how can it vary throughout the US for a single powerwall install. I want some general info and didn't get that from this video.
Good point. I can confirm I did not receive any payment or benefit from Tesla for the Gary Does Solar video. I just think Tesla is leading the market 😃
Wow... total fan boys on both sides here. This is a basic product that has already been here for years. Its called an all-in-one and there is no significant break-throughs here. The significant achievement here is the cost. That's it. The biggest downside nobody here is talking about is that it is not modular and takes more than 1 or even 3 people to carry this thing its 261 lbs (118kg). OSHA standard is like 51 lbs per person so you need a mechanical lift for this. Alot of installers want products that can be installed or replaced by one person. Anytime you go over 1 person it drives up the cost for any job. Don't get me wrong I love Tesla but this isn't going to break the market.
Yeah, there’s a big discussion going on in the industry right now on whether or not we should still be using module level power electronics. There are a variety of opinions on the matter.
I think calling Gary, 'this guy' diminishes his expertise. And considering all pertinent information shared in this overview is proprietary, (Gary's) he should be shown a little more respect.
I find these fact check videos oddly interesting. Which other battery brands have a add on battery not a full battery sorry not sure of the correct terminology.
Yeah hard pass. Their inverters aren't the most relaible (Not as bad as solaredge) but their support is pretty bad for diagnosing and replacements. Don't believe me? Simply hop over to the Tesla Solar subreddit and read all about it yourself.
Interesting. We have 2 Powerwall 2s and a Tesla Gateway and they have been very reliable. Both in normal day to day use for 4 years and in immediately powering the home when the grid fails. That is immediate as in the lights do not flicker and you only know the grid when down from the message on the Tesla app, or the email 10 minutes later from the power company. Also, all support for minor issues like questioning if we should have more production has been responded to in 2 days or less.
@@andrejohnson7237I’m not talking about politics here. Two installers I spoke with, mentioned delayed response times for Tesla. The company has largely ignored support overall, and it’s clearly worse for their solar/energy storage side of the company. I didn’t say Elon bad xyz, stop moving the goal posts.
@@SuperSushiRoll That was not an issue for us. Even during the pandemic, they were on site in a day or two. And when I have call with a question, they pick up immediately. All in all, it has been great.
Sadly I just spent 2 months doing battle with my local Tesla authorized installed trying to get two PW3s mated to the Enphase PV system they installed for me last year who kept saying the PW2 is the only PW that will work with micro-inverters so I signed a contract for two PW2s. Then I saw this recent UA-cam video yesterday - ua-cam.com/video/jQdPaeHQoQM/v-deo.htmlsi=cLL2vwfVP0ljmnVA I contacted my installer here in St Louis yesterday and TOLD them I want to change my order from PW2 to PW3s. Am waiting for their response. I wonder if they were trying to clear out PW2 stock? My original install date was set for Oct 17th. If it slips into next year I'm OK with that. I want PW3s or I'll just cancel my order entirely and pay the cancellation fee.
You would not spend 15k in 10 years buying electricity from the grid. When solar and batteries get less expensive and more efficient the grid companies with do the installs..you can bet on it....!!!
Before getting solar I was spending that much in about 3 years, and I live where the rates are down near national average. All solar is local, it’s highly dependent and where you live, specifics of your home, etc. Also battery backup is similarly specific to your circumstances, along with something more subjective about the value to you in having much higher uptime for your electricity
Hur hur hurr. You think you're so clever using a powerful metaphor, but it makes zero sense given the way he steers his companies. He might be misguided supporting the wannabe dictator but resisting his companies' products because of that is just braindead
Thanks Solar Surge, for your commentary on my video 🙏 Tesla is certainly the battery manufacturer to beat 😃 I have another Powerwall 3 video, which talks about the basics of the product for anyone who wants to watch it...
ua-cam.com/video/sSpQSDSVQ9M/v-deo.htmlsi=UMaoXlwWHBPMFRwu
Thanks for your superb work @GaryDoesSolar. I’ve been following your reports from California and somehow you’ve got the best information on PW3 I’ve seen to date. Joe at Solar Surge is very savvy to put the spotlight on your excellent report from earlier this month, which gave me hope that I can AC couple Tesla PW3 on my existing 27.3kW DC IQ8A DIY system although with some limitations.
I’ve heard the industry has many new systems in the pipeline, and I’m hoping for something spectacular from FranklinWH and Enphase to answer the fantastic PW3.
@@miltonhare2461Thanks for your very kind words 🙏 And definitely! Tesla setting a high bar for the others to try and beat - exactly the way a free, competitive market should operate. The overall winner of course will be the customers 💪 😀
👍 @@GaryDoesSolar, I subscribed to your channel. Thank you.
I forgot who's video I was watching 🤣 Royalties are chargeable surely?!
You literally just showed up Gary’s video and provided a little commentary???? Subscribing to Gary’s channel now. Thanks.
It's a good thing it's expands with of their channels and industry is building off each other it's great
Thanks for being such a good sounding board on this video. I catch just about every Solar Surge and Gary Goes Solar video that comes out to make sure I keep abreast of the tech as we prepare to go solar here in Oklahoma! Thanks to you both!
I am in California, got few quotes for Solar. I was debating between a AC couple system like Enphase vs Tesla DC couple system. Eventually decided on 1 PW3 with 17 REC 430W panels. It should offset about 85% to 90% usages. The PW3 is outdoor rated, so installer just put it next to the garage.
What company did you use, I'm looking to do the same
Why would you use a system that offsets only 85-95% of usage??? And why would you use a Tesla battery instead of 25-year warrantied microinverters, and 15-year warrantied matching batteries? And why would you not have a 30-year warranty? And why would you not mention anything important about what you did or why except the 430 Watt REC's? Answer? because the companies failed to help you see what's REALLY going on with solar power!
@@IKidTheSolarwho does 30 year warrainties? Im looking to add battery system to my solar panels
@@autotecni batteries are not part of a solar power system. They are a gadget. They have a max 15 year warranty. If you can't figure out the financials and get tricked into a lease or PPA- then they can be pulled into the 25 year coverage on that- but that's a real if, maybe,. wait and see kind of thing- will that company be around?
PW3 has the lower range of warranty and the added detraction of a string inverter linked it that will likely change over time, etc.
How long have you lived there?
@@IKidTheSolar been here over 20 years. Have 2 separare solar systems. 1 with enphase inverters other with telsa inverter.
You seem to always provide good, unbiased Info. Much appreciated.
Unbiased??? I don't know. He's selling "solar" - But all over the place, and distracting from what really matters? For sure!
I'm getting two Powerwall 3s right now and they are using the Tesla Backup Switch, no Gateway. This installer has done it several times already. Will be commissioned tomorrow.
I was wondering about this, thank you. It was my understanding that its use is allowed as long as your service is 200A or less and your utility has it approved as a disconnect means, which not all have approve it yet.
@@taylorlightfoot Yes, it has to be approved by your utility and the requirements can be different. For instance in some places you need a separate disconnect for each Powerwall and a rapid shut down button. I only need the rapid shut down button. And yes, the Tesla Backup Switch only works on a 200amp or less service. If you have a larger one, you need a second meter socket installed but it can be done. They're working on the regulations in my area for that, but I have a 200amp service so it didn't affect me.
Thank you Joe, for your informed commentary keeping us up to date.
I have a few technical questions:
1. What happens WHEN the built-in inverter stops working? Do we need to replace the entire unit, or can the inverter portion be replaced without needing to replace the entire unit?
2. Can a single PW3 plus 2 or 3 DC Expansion units be installed with a backup switch collar and support (full) home backup without needing to install a backup tesla gateway (along with a critical load subpanel)?
3. Are the DC Expansion units installed conncted in serial (to the PW3 unit)? If so, will that introduce any issues of the lowest capacity one not allowing to use the others efficiently?
1. Unknown. 2. Yes. 3. The DC expansion packs are wired in parallel with the main DC bus.
3: DC expansions are just that:DC EXPANSIONS. They won't need to convert to AC until power is sent to the home thus helping efficiency. Since there's only one inverter, you're able to stack 52kwh off one PW3, but it'll still max out at 11.5kw continuous. If you had 4 PW3's you'd still have 52kwh of battery, but 46kw continuous.
@@SolarSurge that's quite an "unknown" isn't it??? I mean....
@IKidTheSolar
You of all people should be comfortable with not knowing something
@IKidTheSolar
You of all people should be comfortable with not knowing something
Agreed! With many homeowners now owning EVs, one PW3 is likely not enough for their power needs, especially if they are in an area that has frequent blackouts and rely on the Powerwall for energy security. 65-70% of homes would be covered like the video mentioned but Tesla’s claim of 90%+ with one PW3 in their latest video is generous. We love Tesla and their innovative products but thank you for your honesty Solar Surge!
I think we're all underselling the value of the collar. Anyone with a larger home knows that energy backup systems (battery or generator) severely limit the number of "circuits" in the critical load panels, that cause massive extra cost to rewire, and almost always leave the homeowner wanting more. (Your house probably wasn't wired with critical loads in mind, so you have to sacrifice which breakers will get backup juice and which won't). Having the main switch between the meter and main box is the only way these should have ever been setup in the first place. This should more than cut the installers time in half.
I have two power wall threes, if one fails I have the other one that can provide power. If I add two more power wall threes without the inverter and one of my power wall three fails, I would be down to two power walls to supply by house since each of my original power wall 3 has the non-inverter power wall attached to it directly. Am I correct in these assumptions? Thank you for your analysis. System is up and running it’s beautiful.
Sounds like Power Walls are stacked in series while DC Expansions are stacked in parallel. Or is it in the PW's electronics?
Great advice, well explained, very trustworthy info. Thanks guys, keep it up.
I’m curious of the future of using EVs instead of dedicated batteries for home battery backup and grid independence/ surge pricing avoidance. I’m moving to Tucson and will consider getting solar but also considering a Silverado or 150 Lightning truck. I’d love to leverage those very large capacity batteries for such a purpose in lieu of buying dedicated home batteries. Any thoughts on that?
Thank you for the information very well done. I’m looking at a solar system. Ground mounted, and most likely will do the Tesla power three will keep you posted.
6:29 this was all I was waiting to hear!
Even Elon Musk couldn't have marketed this product as convincingly as this Englishman (with a wee Scottish accent)!
Thank you 😃
you can install up to 4 Powerwall 3 units on a single Backup Gateway or Backup Switch.
Once DCX is launched we expect that you'll be able to add 3 DCX units per PW3 (total of 16 units).
Does it have black start capability? I mean if I lose grid and the batteries die, will they restart when the sun comes up or do I have to wait for the grid to come back up?
Yes it has black start. All DC-coupled solar inherently had black start capability since solar DC output is delivered directly to the DC bus.
FEATURES:
3:23 Capacity
4:10 Peak Power
4:21 Stacking Powerwalls
4:44 Stacking Limitations
5:13 DC Expansions
6:11 Integration with Powerwall 2
7:22 Emergency Power Supply (EPS), Gateway 2 v/s Gateway 3
8:01 Backup Switch (Meter Collar)
9:18 Integrated Inverter (6 string capability)
11:41 Adding to Existing Solar Systems, including microinverter systems
12:29 Temperature Ranges
I plan on replacing my solar inverter with one of these as it was meant to integrate with string panels easily. Might hold off due to small capacity. I get that it’s a bit bigger than previous generations but the people who had the powerwall2 had 2-4 of them installed. There’s a lot of positives but the capacity is the dealbreaker. I also dislike how you have to choose between the power or extended usage, it’s like creating a problem that never existed because a larger capacity would solve that dilemma.
Hmm. The utilities I deal with don't want you touching the meter base. So, I'm not sure what to make of the meter collar adapter.
Not sure why but I saw this video before and your comments make it more watchable 😅
Hello I am looking to add battery storage to my solar system and possible adding more panels . The question I have is what the best outdoor battery I can get and the cost. My system is a solar edge system and I am not happy with the inverter solar edge used. I am also having trouble with the system connecting to the app because solar edge used a 3g cell service and most carriers no longer service. Are there any work around?
So, I checked with my utility and they said the collar wasn't allowed between their meter and the meter socket. Ok. Fine. But what is stopping me from coming out of the utility net meter into a separate customer owned meter/meter socket and putting the collar on that meter, then running from there to the Powerwall?
We like the Panasonic evervolt system, much more capability and modular battery, generator support and whole house back up with load shedding all built in. Tesla has many complaints online about service accessibility,
I am subscribed to Gary Does Solar (as well as Solar Surge). I have benefited mightily from his tutelage. Plus he has a great name.
Hopefully not a wind turbine on your roof (Gary's idea from an earlier video).
How does Sonnen compare up against the PW3?
Sonnen 👎
In Australia where i am, 45 deg C is possible and 40 plus normal regularly in peak summer so i have a dedicated air conditioned room set at 25 deg C for my (pylontech) batteries and inverter (MPP Solar 11KW) that runs sundown to sunup and 10kW of grid connected inverters to allow export (5kw export shaped)
The hotter it gets the more sun and the average solar install these days is 10kw plus of (unshaded) solar panels which are needed as the efficiency drops off from them the hotter it gets.
The heat pump Hot Water Systems use very little energy when it's hot and the modern inverter air conditioners have EER's (energy efficiency ratios ) of 3-4 for the larger units and up to 5 for the smaller bedroom units. So at the hottest time of day/year you will get 10Kw from the 12Kw of solar with 4Kw used for a/c and heat pump with 6Kw still left for everything else like the house baseload, cooking and water pumps (for those on acreage) as well as charging batteries.
Having 22Kwh of batteries means the a/c and cooking and the house base load can run right through the night until sunup and the cycle then repeats. No grid power is consumed.
I know it sounds crazy but those on the grid here with 10kw plus of solar and batteries along with subsidies and rebates have $2000 or more in credit as they export their surplus solar (while it lasts) and use very little of the grid power at all.
When those subsidies and rebates and exports are no longer creating credits then the grid can be turned off completely with a phone call.
I've been trying to like the PowerWall3. I think it needs a generator input and a built-in web interface. I think the lack of these features is why the powerwall3 has such a good price.
Agree in relation to a web interface. Seems very restrictive to make access reliant on a cloud & APP interface.
Wait so you cant use Powerwall as a backup if you need more than 1 installed and supplying power at the same time? I have a 600A service and would need 3-4 Powerwalls, seems like there would be no backup ability really then for me.
We have a 17 year old 3.2 kw solar system from Solar City (later acquired by Tesla) with the original Xantrex inverter. Would the PW3 be able to replace our existing inverter, as well as be connected to an additional new Solar System (thus expanding our total solar output)? If so, it can then also provide us with storage and backup!
can it be charged directly from the energy grid, for people that have flex energy prices. sorry for bother
What does it cost using USD, that British stuff I don't get?
Tesla Powerwall 3 ❤❤
Since the Tesla Powerwall 3 has its own inverter, what do you use instead of micro inverters on the solar panels?
You don't use anything on the panels. Microinverters are designed to bring AC from each panel down to your fuse panel. With the PW3 you can wire the strings of panels right to the battery. If you already have a system with microinverters or an existing string inverter, you can use the Tesla Gateway to AC couple to the batteries, but you lose energy in the multiple conversions.
Are the PW3 extension batteries yet?
Awesome!
Wait why can’t you go with the whole house cut off collar? If you use multiple PW3’s?
If you parallel connect multiple PW3's you need a Tesla Gateway 3.
I have two Powerwall 3s and one Backup Switch. One Powerwall is the lead battery and the other is the follower. I have multiple panel strings going to each battery but the AC goes to the lead battery.
I am more interested in getting 2 powerwalls and running my portable generator to recharge it when needed. Basically just need energy continuity in case of outage. Getting solar plus enough batteries to go off grid will burn a hole in my wallet.
In Oklahoma they’re charging 13,000+ for one installed.
Get more quotes, that seems kinda high. I think even Tesla directly is cheaper, let alone a third party. I'm having 4 installed for about double your price, not in OK, but still.
Why are you thinking of this as something to be charged for??? Do you already have a solar power system???
Thats about what it should cost.
Don’t forget bidirectional charging that’s way simpler than any other system with the Cybertruck and soon the rest of their lineup! With Tesla you just need the powerwall (or gateway 3) and universal wall charger… that’s it.
Good luck getting a permit for that!
V2H will be a great service. I have no need for a Cybertruck, but have an X and a 3. It bothers me that we have an additional 150+ kWh of power in the garage we cannot use to power the home. Instead, we are limited to the 28 kWh we have in the 2 Powerwalls, 24 inches away from the vehicles.
@@JBoy340aagreed. I’m waiting for the manufacturers to release power control systems that provide:
1) high capacity V2H bidirectional charging
2) auxiliary portable/low cost generator connection to directly charge the battery, where the battery is sized to handle the full surge power/LRA requirements of HVAC/well pump etc. but the generator can be relatively small without needing to handle large surge loads.
3) easy expansion, relatively low 50-100lb battery component weight
4) large capacity meter collar, ideally compatible with 400A service.
5) black start for AC coupled batteries using generator power or reserve battery capacity (or some way to warm the batteries other than wood fires which is exactly what some people were doing with Tesla PW2 a few years ago).
6) support for multiple demand side tap connected PV connections inside the meter, as FranklinWH does now with aPBox, which allows up to three solar PV arrays to be connected and controlled by one aGate system controller.
FranklinWH, Enphase and Tesla already have great LFP systems with high surge power - hopefully someone decides that large rural ranches are worth some engineering effort. At this point it looks like FranklinWH is in the lead, but no one has everything yet, at least from the major players.
Love it
It is certainly a step in the right direction following in the footsteps of Chinese Hybrid inverters and AIO systems. What’s missing it ability to connect in front of main service panel using 200amp bypass relays in the event the house draw exceeds the max KW output of their internal inverter. I also didn’t hear about connecting an AC generator to a std feature of a true hybrid. It’s not innovation but more catchup to where the industry is outside of USA. I bet if someone does a tear down you’ll find Chinese LFp cells from CATL, BYD, or similar. Curious how make the inverter too.
@solarsurge, Greetings from Puerto Rico, new suscriber here. what is the price for one of this PB3 in the Mainland? And, Can I buy one there and have ship here? My question comes because they are selling the PB2 here at a very high price. Thanks for sharing this video!!
How are your comments here different from what you said in your "Why is Tesla Going Backwards with Powerwall 3?" video?
That video title left me scratching my head. More cost-effective designs in solar isn’t “backwards”.
It’s more the case that variables driving the decisions have changed. PV panels are far more resilient in face of shading, and high string count with low panel per string count becoming more feasible is shifting the balance vs cost/drawback of having power electronics up on the roof
Exactly, what day is it? What video will we see?
Question about AC coupled vs DC coupled and solar… Living in NJ with a “net metered” solar system that’s been running for 12 years. Part of the payback is avoided electricity cost from the utility at 20 cents per kW hr. Also part of payback is SRECs at $200 per every kW hr of solar produced or another 20 cents per kW hr. for a total of 40 cents per kW hr for EVERY AC kW hr. my solar inverter produces per year for 15 years. At 7000 kW hrs per year that is 7000 * .40 = $2800 per year. Does the PW3 simply decide and manage how solar energy is providing for charging batteries or providing for site demand to avoid using grid power and does it get full credit for every AC kW hr produced like me AC solar system or will I lose some or all of the SREC revenue I currently enjoy? If lost, does it make sense to leave the AC net metered solar system as is with my revenue grade monitoring system measuring every AC kW hr produced and installed a PW2 or 3 simply for whole house backup?
Edit… $200 SREC for every 1000 kW hrs not kW hr as stated but still an extra 20 cents per kW hr.
Has anyone heard of 'Base Power" ? They are doing batteries here in Texas and don't know much about them
to bad the 3 isnt a partial home also! i like the added dc extra storage.
Have a look at Sigenergy modular batteries, they leave tesla in the dust.
I wouldn't want an integrated battery and inverter its less flexible, buying a product just because its easy to install seems a bit backwards to me . Buy a product for many reasons but never ease of install, id rather pay slightly more and it takes slightly longer as long as it meets my needs for the many years of use. Im not saying its a bad product , im not saying it may not be right product for you .
game changer
What about the charg controller? 🤷 Maybe it does that job?🤔
Yes, the power wall does the role of charge controller as well. All built into the same box.
-4 f not good for us north states ... Which you didn't even mention . 😢
Good point
just installing PW3 + solar. Costs $30k for PW3(x2) and $20k for 6kw array with u-converters. Kansas
So the battery alone is 7 grand for the US. For argument's sake you could easily get 2 and almost 3 ecoflow delta ultra batteries and 2 would be very close to the capacity of the powerwall 3 and they are compact. And if you really want a wall mounted battery the EG4 PowerPro is 14kw at 3500 right now.
You're comparing a Tesla power wall up against cheap hobby gear. Apples and oranges dude. By the way my EcoFlo broke in the first year..
@@boblatkey7160 EG4 has a 10 year warranty dude. I wouldn't call that cheap hobby gear. And EcoFlow has a 5 year warranty. Stuff can break even Tesla powerwalls
@@guavaball 🙄
@@boblatkey7160 no surprise that's all you've got when you just realized the EG4 has the same warranty as your beloved powerwall without all of the requirements they put in front of it to get the full 10 years. It helps to read.
"to secure the full 10-year warranty for Powerwall 3, it must be reliably connected to the Internet to allow remote firmware upgrades from Tesla. If an Internet connection is not established or is interrupted for an extended period, and Tesla is unable to contact you, the warranty may be limited to 4 years."
@@guavaball my house has an internet connection 99.9%+ of the time so not sure this is much of a concern for me
I just dont understand why they arent making 20kWh batteries or larger at this point. Would be cheaper to buy 2 20kWh batteries than 3 13kWh batteries.
Unfortunately, meter collar still isn't permitted here in FL, so stuck with the Gateway for our installs. Do you think Tesla will allow homeowner DIY installs of expansion packs in the future?
Maybe it is a little different in the UK
Tesla is the new standard, period. If it has the Tesla name on it is better than average, to put it mildly.
FPL won’t allow the simple ring.
Thank you. I think you added a bit of value to the original video. Nonetheless, it does seem like you should just have made your own video rather than simply add a few comments and call it your own. I appreciate that you included the link to the original channel but I couldn’t easily find a link to the original video itself.
I appreciate your video and the added insight but it just feels like you are largely stealing the work this guy has done.
I hope you don’t take this very personally. I’m just describing how this appeared to me. I like your channel. It has good information.
Confirming it is LFP
What do battery equipment prices or features in the UK or Australia have to do with residential solar power in the USA??? Answer? Absolutely not a thing!
Didn’t Tesla battery stop working during the Texas power blackout because, after two days, they could not contact Tesla HQ. Apparently this had something to do with contact being required for warranty coverage. So no Tesla for me ever.
Sounds like it may be an issue with “black start”. If you fully drain the battery, the panels wont work. Franklin reserves a portion of its pack to start up after draining, and Enphase can black start fully drained.
What blackout, when?
Considering lfp has a well proven track record over the last decade it surprises me how bad and expensive corporate products have been and still are, even a noob like me was able to build a whole system operating flawlessly for 5 years so far for less than 1/3 the price of a bought one using prismatic cells. Since then it has only become cheaper and vastly easier to do using the all in one inverter/charger units and once Sodium ion batteries achieve scale it will be get to another level of affordability which will likely be the mass adoption tipping point taking pressure of wallets and the grid. Billions will become energy producers and exporters making utility company extortion days numbered.
And still no genset integration...
Get Sol-Ark 15K and add in three 5Kwh Pytes Batteries.
Much more Power, does all the same things, just as reliable, same warranty, better customer support and you are not locked into Internet nanny and limited installer choices. Plus yes a generator can be hooked up and be fully auto started when needed.
@Dreadlk it's on the list, but I also might want to participate in Duke Energy VPP program. No sol-ark or eg4 on their list yet. Frustrating.
But why don't they say that the PW3s are essentially a string inverter setup? There is no DC power optimizers on individual panels and wouldn't that mean they're as strong as the weakest link in the chain? With multiple arrays on certain roof faces that may have overhanging tree branches - wouldn't it exacerbate that issue unlike let's say microinverters that would compensate for that?
That’s a very minor concern for contemporary PV panels. The diode bypass circuitry that’s on any panel that you should consider installing, anyway, mitigates shading issues to the degree it doesn’t really matter for output.
The only thing you’re missing is easier troubleshooting if one of the panels breaks, or a wire connection fails.
With support for 6 strings, and minimum string voltage of 60V you can design your system around some very gnarly shading concerns
You can have six string inputs per PW3. So if you have panels on different roof planes, you separate them. Same with shading issues. I just had two PW3s installed with my two existing solar systems. The older 10-panel array is one string and the 27-panel newer array, all on one roof plane, was broken into 4 strings due to shading of one section at certain times of year. The bypass diodes on the panels should negate any serious legacy string system problems. I had Enphase microinverters on the old system and SolarEdge inverter on the newer system. I've had failures of both sets of inverters in the 7 years I've owned the place. Only time will tell if my production suffers with the new layout. I'll probably be adding additional panels to another roof plane to generate power over a wider time period and it's super easy to add more strings to the PW3s. It's just the panels and wiring as I still have 7 more string inputs open.
@@aoeuuaoaou yeah, except there's one inverter and they fail far more than micros. Why introduce this design flaw? With less warranty? it makes no sense at all. Why encourage massive diversity of equipment and technology??? Why???
They mostly introduced this battery to switch chemistry! The rest is just a distraction. These are cheaper, faster, easier install for installers- but that's not what makes something good for you as a homeowner!!!
@IKidTheSolar
LOL
@IKidTheSolar
So you’ve got the secret to making the world so much better but you can’t share it?
Yup, sounds totally legit. *Jennifer Lawrence thumbs up*
LOL
you should have added a segment to show USD costs. Not sure what 5,500 British pounds and 800 British pounds equates to. Also what is the installation cost on avg and how can it vary throughout the US for a single powerwall install. I want some general info and didn't get that from this video.
solar power is ZERO down. What is your question?
Good info. Thanks.
You might want to explicitly state that the video isn't sponsored by Tesla.
Good point. I can confirm I did not receive any payment or benefit from Tesla for the Gary Does Solar video. I just think Tesla is leading the market 😃
This Powerwall still can't be charged by a generator in case batteries tap out FranklinWH is that battery to beat. FWH blows this product
Just get a hybrid inverter and a better battery bank.
🙄
Wow... total fan boys on both sides here. This is a basic product that has already been here for years. Its called an all-in-one and there is no significant break-throughs here. The significant achievement here is the cost. That's it. The biggest downside nobody here is talking about is that it is not modular and takes more than 1 or even 3 people to carry this thing its 261 lbs (118kg). OSHA standard is like 51 lbs per person so you need a mechanical lift for this. Alot of installers want products that can be installed or replaced by one person. Anytime you go over 1 person it drives up the cost for any job. Don't get me wrong I love Tesla but this isn't going to break the market.
This dude comments on the other dudes video and calls it his own 😂
PowerWall is a full pass for me. Rather go with EG4 or KilloVolt 😊
KiloVault went out of business. I don't trust EG4 long term either.
Isnt this going to screw Enphase big time ?
Yeah, there’s a big discussion going on in the industry right now on whether or not we should still be using module level power electronics. There are a variety of opinions on the matter.
It’s more about what the module level electronics should be, as even Powerwall 3 needs MCI installed to be code compliant for on-roof installs.
I think calling Gary, 'this guy' diminishes his expertise. And considering all pertinent information shared in this overview is proprietary, (Gary's) he should be shown a little more respect.
I find these fact check videos oddly interesting. Which other battery brands have a add on battery not a full battery sorry not sure of the correct terminology.
You can buy 14-15 kw
Wallmount battery for under $3500 vs tesla $11,500
So you could buy 3 other batteries 45kw vs tesla 11.5kw
Tesla installers have a monopoly over tesla installations so doent help companies that arent tesla installers
Yeah hard pass. Their inverters aren't the most relaible (Not as bad as solaredge) but their support is pretty bad for diagnosing and replacements. Don't believe me? Simply hop over to the Tesla Solar subreddit and read all about it yourself.
Reddit... that place is no longer reliable. It's been tainted by politics and elon man bad syndrom
Interesting. We have 2 Powerwall 2s and a Tesla Gateway and they have been very reliable. Both in normal day to day use for 4 years and in immediately powering the home when the grid fails. That is immediate as in the lights do not flicker and you only know the grid when down from the message on the Tesla app, or the email 10 minutes later from the power company. Also, all support for minor issues like questioning if we should have more production has been responded to in 2 days or less.
@@andrejohnson7237I’m not talking about politics here. Two installers I spoke with, mentioned delayed response times for Tesla. The company has largely ignored support overall, and it’s clearly worse for their solar/energy storage side of the company. I didn’t say Elon bad xyz, stop moving the goal posts.
@@JBoy340aresponding appears to be quick. Actually showing up for a service call? Good luck.
@@SuperSushiRoll That was not an issue for us. Even during the pandemic, they were on site in a day or two. And when I have call with a question, they pick up immediately. All in all, it has been great.
why is a British presenter talking about "sneakers" ?
Sadly I just spent 2 months doing battle with my local Tesla authorized installed trying to get two PW3s mated to the Enphase PV system they installed for me last year who kept saying the PW2 is the only PW that will work with micro-inverters so I signed a contract for two PW2s. Then I saw this recent UA-cam video yesterday - ua-cam.com/video/jQdPaeHQoQM/v-deo.htmlsi=cLL2vwfVP0ljmnVA I contacted my installer here in St Louis yesterday and TOLD them I want to change my order from PW2 to PW3s. Am waiting for their response. I wonder if they were trying to clear out PW2 stock? My original install date was set for Oct 17th. If it slips into next year I'm OK with that. I want PW3s or I'll just cancel my order entirely and pay the cancellation fee.
You would not spend 15k in 10 years buying electricity from the grid. When solar and batteries get less expensive and more efficient the grid companies with do the installs..you can bet on it....!!!
Before getting solar I was spending that much in about 3 years, and I live where the rates are down near national average.
All solar is local, it’s highly dependent and where you live, specifics of your home, etc.
Also battery backup is similarly specific to your circumstances, along with something more subjective about the value to you in having much higher uptime for your electricity
You are patently wrong. My payback period On a system I installed myself is less than three years.
@@boblatkey7160 lease, purchase or ppa...??
@@aoeuuaoaou lease purchase or ppa...?
@Yldman2u
???
I purchased, those other options are very rarely good choices, but not sure how that’s pertinent here.
Then you paid up front....
I will avoid Tesla as long as Elon is in charge. He is a ship without a rudder.
Hur hur hurr. You think you're so clever using a powerful metaphor, but it makes zero sense given the way he steers his companies. He might be misguided supporting the wannabe dictator but resisting his companies' products because of that is just braindead
Haha
@electricandlspower I love how one can't even have a debate on the internet now if language is mildly adversarial
That's a dishonest comment
Many folks share the same opinion but I'd say "let's heed the message and not the messenger!"