Starmer Stubbornly Sticks to Disastrous Brexit
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- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- The #labourparty manifesto was launched this week. Much of it concerned economic growth which will be essential if damaged and neglected public services are to be fixed. #keirstarmer claims that growth can be achieved whilst ignoring the major reason for our economic troubles which is #brexit
He claims he will be able to improve our deal with the #eu despite having been told repeatedly that this will not be possible.
Starmer has made it clear that beyond certain funded changes other reforms will only be possible if funded by growth.
Outside the EU the UK will find it almost impossible to grow.
The English still have not understood that they are a third country to the EU, no different then China or Bangladesh. Same rules apply.Actually the rules England had a hand in making when they were a member of the EU.
That’s exactly the problem. They still think that they are entitled to some privileges but they aren‘t.
They are just a third country like for example Serbia or Albania.
Actually, at least for the time being, China, Bangladesh are doing OK. Not so sure about the EU, though. The UK is just a sorrow.. Serbia and Albania are alright, too.
What rules do China follow when trading with the EU. The Germans biggest trading partner is, of course, China.
No freedom of movement, no 17 billion per year in fees. What about the US, What rules do they follow from the EU ?
@@bradsmith9689
The WTO rules
@geraldwagner8739 Yes: Shouted down by Remoaners and EU fanatics. There isn't any need for 17 billion pound handouts and open borders...that have led to Le Pen, Wilders and the AFD. You own it.
the UK had every possible exemption within the EU, and still, they were always complaining. I hope the UK will rejoin, it's a great country. Cheers from your french neighbour
@olivierolivier6080 but the UK will have no veto, have to adopt the Euro, have to join Schengen, and adopt all EU policies.
@@OwenKevin-wx7te no country has a veto as such, but some countries have their words; The UK as a big contry had its word and no Regulation was never adopted without the UK consent. Those who say that the EU can ipose regulations are liars
I’m disappointed with Labour’s stance on the EU. I find myself agreeing with Michael Heseltine on this matter - the most dishonest election ever due to no-one talking about Brexit.
You didn't upset ME Michael. I share your frustration.
Starmer should start by producing a state of the nation report and publish all the reports that the current government has blocked. Otherwise as these problems surface, as they surely will, Labour will be blamed for these Tory failings.
I agree with that.
Oh, all others, including the think-tanks, foreign governments, city bankers are already doing that. I tend to trust the ORB, the fiscal institute to do that for with the independent civil service.
@@Human-le9nt what did the report on Russian interference in the Brexit vote say? I read Johnson buried that.
@@user-zx3ug1ww4b Starmer needs to create an independent investigatory financial 'flying squad' with the incentivisation of Self Funding........to put a bit of the old 'fear-of-god' back into the suits of The City and beyond. Tory funding would dry up. Prosecutor Starmer is the ideal PM for the times .......plus - time for a little bit of vengeance from the food bank clients.
Starmer is no fool. He knows full well what a disaster Brexit has been. For this reason I'm wondering why he's taking this stance on rejoining. He's up to something; I'm sure of it.
I agree, Starmer was a top barrister which is difficult to achieve, I hope you are right and he is "up to something" and surprises you, me and Michael.
I've suggested to my children that they leave Britland as soon as possible: I'm too old for relocation and will have to put up with the dreadful situation both politically and economically, however I will spend the remainder of my life fighting the injustices that exist in this dying country. The politicians are in denial of the dire economic situation however my children are still of an age where they could travel to a country that will offer them a better lifestyle and future for themselves and their families, there is nothing worth hanging around for in this country which could be accomplished in my lifetime nor theirs.
Sad, but your advice is very sound.
I left. Mine will not leave. They just are addicted to masochism, they love the pain.
No, you are not too old to leave the UK. @PENSIONER PREPPER ,aged 73.
Starmer or 5 years of more 🐂💩 tories or the crazy crazy Nigel Farage
The one great success of the Leave campaigns has been to saddle the country with this toxic legacy of never being able to admit we made an error.
Before the referendum, the talk was all of the Norway and Swiss models and not leaving the Single Market, but afterwards and within a short time, the result had been hijacked by the big-mouthed clueless extremists who pushed us into a hard Brexit and have manifestly failed to deliver on any of the supposed benefits.
I regularly visit Europe for work and later this year I will have to submit to having my fingerprints recorded and subsequently being checked and interrogated every time I want to visit the European mainland.
The last 8 years have left me feeling totally politically disenfranchised in my own country. Nearly half the voting population opted for the status quo back in 2016 but since then any revisiting of this catastrophic and disingenuously engineered EU exit has been completely off the table for either of the two main political parties.
A deeply disappointing situation which makes me wonder about leaving the country where I was born and raised and have lived for my entire adult life.
Certainly I won’t be voting Tory or Labour.
I truly believe that Starmer will bring much closer ties with the EU which is required as there is no guarantee that we would be welcomed back as a full member so he has to work within the confines of that situation but there will be big changes.
I feel your exasperation at all of this…
Well analysed and stated Michael. You carry the torch of wisdom that everyone should look up to ❤️🙏
Flag of bs morelike. A retired old duffer who traipses around europe comparing this and that, but not the wages and oppertunities as mr lambert aint pulled a paycheque for 35+ yrs.
✊🏻💦
Thank you very much Dave 😊
The UK will not rejoin the EU within the lifetime of most people alive today. Good news for the EU. Starmer may be able to soften Brexit a bit, but will have to play to the EU's tune, as amply demonstrated in previous negotiations.
5:40 If Starmer wants to tear down the barriers to trade you need to join the EU and be a reliable and full member. The Single Market needs common standards and regulations for a frictionless trade with reliable members. Either you’re in or you’re out.
EFTA or EEA are no options, neither is the Swiss model.
Thanks Micheal, another great video. I’m soo angry and frustrated with Starmer’s stance on Brexit. The man is clearly in denial and I cannot believe that his advisers are not saying to him that you are you are on the wrong track. Grrrrr.
One day, someone is going to have to face the reality that we need to re-join Europe.
Apply to, apply to...
The sooner the better. You can't polish the Brexit turd.
@@RealMash Yes, I can't see that the EU would be keen to allow the UK to join anytime soon. Too risky. However allowing the UK to participate in the Single Market (internal market, no cherry picking) would not be anything like as risky, which is why I keep calling out the nonsense of those who say that would be impossible. The only thing that would (or will) make it impossible is the UK not asking in good faith before its economy has collapsed to such an extent it would be a burden not a benefit. (And I think there is a massive risk that another 5 years would pass that threshold.)
Michael,
Come to Ireland and enjoy EU living again.
Britain has only just begun its journey into the post-Brexit abyss.
Recalling the words of a Chinese leader on the progress of the revolution "its only been 50 years so far, too soon to say".
@@lat1419 No one is talking about China. This is about Britain. Two very different nations, two very different cultures, and two very different histories. Comparing the two nations in any way-culturally, historically, psychologically, geographically, or nationally-is ridiculous.
I completely agree. The labour stance is stupid.
They people in laiber are stoopid! Listen to Rainer!
The EU needs clear decisions. The worst is that Labour and even the Lib Dems defend this Brexit exceptionalism. There was no plan how to leave (from WTO to a Norway or Swiss position) but now there’s absolutely no political plan to rejoin either.
The UK was never really IN. First, they didn't want to join the EEC.
Then, in the sixties, the UK wanted to join but only on their own terms. In 1975, only two-and-a-half years after having entered, the UK had a first referendum.
In 1979 Thatcher wanted her money back, which she eventually did in 1984. But this was still not enough. Just before 2016, they had the best deal with exceptions and opt-outs, but it was still not enough as Cameron wanted yet more and more exceptions. It was never enough and it never would be enough. The UK saw the EU as a profitable free trade zone. Nothing more.
We really don’t need this kind of membership.
Perfectly worded. Just sadly perfect.😮
Exactly. If you come back, no special deals. Or do as Norway& Switzerland: pay to play And accept the EU market rules.
The A&E department near me are 70% going to Australia. I don’t blame them. My daughter is training to be a Doctor and her mentors are leaving too. I’m a nurse in Scotland 🏴 so at least we’re paid more than English nurses despite the increase in taxes.
I do feel sorry for you as you deserve more and the government should be doing all they can to keep doctors and nurses but the NHS is so badly run, the money is either going to the wrong places or wasted, leaving no money to actually go to where it should, to you, your daughter and to that A&E dept.
Excellent presentation, Michael, as always. Surely he can see that brexit can NEVER work. Quite frankly, if he thinks he can restore UK's relationship status to the same level as before 2016, without rejoining the EU, he is in a fantasy world.
Starmer lost my vote, the instant he said there was "no case for rejoining, or a referendum...." I say this as a life-long Labour voter, and one time paid up member. A spoilt paper will be my voice on 4 July, regrettably.
I have exactly the same issue with Starmer as you Mr Lambert, regarding the EU.
What he's actually implying is that he's going to champion 3rd country status to equalling EU membership status. The sad thing is 'Make Brexit Work' will continue to breed the delusion that a successful Brexit is viable; and what we need to be doing, at this stage, is culling the Brexit success ideology...
While I am ardently pro-European and pro-EU, I have to recognise the indisputable fact that DePiffle Johnson "got Brexit done".
Britain is no longer part of the European Union and while it was entirely Britain's choice to leave the rest of rest of the EU have their voice on who is admitted into their Union. Starmer has to do whatever he can to "make Brexit work" because Brexit is the reality we now face.
We cannot "rejoin" because the terms we had as members are no longer available, at best we can apply for membership under the current membership terms and conditions. Currently we do not meet those criteria, and are diverging more and more as time goes by. Even when we do eventually qualify we will need to convince the other members that we are serious and will not "Brexit" again at the drop of a hat.
Don’t forget the miserable deal with Japan and the non-existent deal with the US.
You are absolutely correct, the EU has moved on.
Dear Michael, many Thanks for your excellent Examination of the ills affecting Britain, I believe you are wholly correct, I do hope that Starmer re-examines his Attitude to Brexit and adopts a new Perspective.
I'm standing to make this very point ua-cam.com/video/ikgQkQ_z9lE/v-deo.html&lc=UgzCvADCAbfTtM-FwsF4AaABAg @peterjhillier7659
Thank you Peter 😊
Brexit reminds me of Lord Voldemort - an all-encompassing dark force that most people submit to later on and are fearful to challenge or even acknowledge.
I'm voting for the Green Party, 'none of the above' will acknowledge the brexit debacle.
Michael, I really understand your frustration and impatience, but there isn’t actually any way the UK can join the EU quickly. The UK is a third country like all other third countries. The status of a privileged former member doesn’t exist apart from the fantasies of many British rejoiners.
There‘s nothing Starmer can do than work together with the EU as a third country and detoxify the relationship with the EU.
Nobody is disputing that a quick return to the EU is not possible. However when Starmer expresses the term 'Never' to Single Market or Customs Union, he is actually denying a return to the EU for the future of the UK.
...one last thing: as you mentioned at the beginning of this video, Starmer did also fall into the trap of thinking that the EU will, for unfathomable reasons, concede "special" treatment to this nonsense of "make Brexit work and reset the relationship/renegotiation ...it is just not going to happen whilst you are legally/politically a third country as far as the EU is concerned...
100% support from me, Michael. I still cannot fathom why we left and as to why we are not re-joining baffles me. British pig-headiness? Pride? WE will all pay for it in poorer services and in being poorer people. Please continue, I need more of your honesty and wisdom.
You need to read the work done by overseas journalists re immigration patterns.
Thank you Michael 😊
About time we Remainers grew up and accepted we lost the argument 8 years ago
@@keithparker1346 That would be true if severe political corruption had not been rampant.
Watching the political leaders debate on TV, I found it very uninspiring, the main parties seemed gagged and stifled by populism and seemed afraid of upsetting the ruling media, Farage on the other could freely spout off his political agenda simply because he sticks to his path come what may even though reforms possible manifesto is frightening in parts, the SNP seem to have a sensible approach to our current situation but their hands are tied, Starmer is stubbornly sticking to his don't upset anyone policies, even though this stance will ultimately be their downfall, so you're right the only celebration will be the tories removed from number 10 , enjoyed your talk Michael very informative.
Thank you Martin 😊
@@MichaelLambert1 the trouble is Michael, this weak leadership of Starmer and this conservative bunch, allows far right policies too flourish, keep up the good work Michael 👍
In these debates, why exactly has no one asked fartage why they have not got the best deal while NOT being in the EU? NOBODY has put that actual question to him. Remember him saying “we’d like to be Norway, or Switzerland, they’re doing pretty well.”
@tomwalsh2244 Well said and 'Pop Eye" Farage needs to answer as opposed to shout .The public believe him .and talk about his charisma and strength .Just as they did with PM loud mouth Johnson ..In the words of the song "when will they ever learn"
Lots of love to you and much appreciation for your efforts Michael. Stay strong and carry on you beauty. ❤
Thank you very much Dave 😊
Johnson was the worst Prime minister ever Michael
Hopefully.
No, Sunak is worse.
Don't agree, Johnson was a compulsive liar, he made lying acceptable , he had no leadership skills, or knowledge of what was happening in front of him, he set the rot in, and this country has not been right since he was in power sunak is left with the mess Johnson made
Somebody does stand up regularly in Parliament and say we should be ibavk in the EU. The SNP has never stopped saying it.
@user-wy1lq5wh8w The SNP will be lucky to have enough SMPs to fit into an impounded luxury camper-van and for their former chief executive to stay out of jail.
@@anthonyferris8912 What a nice relationship your Union is.
I guess that Starmer is A) aware of the fact that the UK can't 'renegotiate' anything and that the only way back to the EU fold is full membership, and B) the electorate will become feral when mentioning A). Is he disingenuous here? Yes, he could and should have been more clear. But he's afraid to. So a hypothetical new EU membership will take at least 5 more extra years.
He could negotiate something, but he will never get the benefits of the Single Market without the obligations, so he'll get nothing of substance.
The manifesto pledge to never rejoin the EU only applies until the following election. Starmer seems to be listening to people and has already talked with the EU. Maybe the pledge stands because it’s not actually possible to rejoin during the next term. I’m sure that their manifesto has been very cleverly worded and it will allow them to do what is best for us. Anyhow, there is no point in even trying to rejoin if it can easily be overturned by the next Tory government. Like you said, it takes time for businesses to build up. It would be madness for a business to go through this process on the basis of us rejoining the EU only to have it destroyed again in a few years when we re-Brexit. There are many things which need to be sorted out first so that this doesn’t happen.
I agree,seeing as rejoining the EU within the next 5 years is impossible then why waste time and energy on rejoining. There are enough problems to fix without muddying the waters with impossibilities.
I disagree. I think it is the right call for Starmer to not open that box now, it would be way too risky. He just needs to drive this home and once he is PM, I think he needs to change his stance and allow for a calm and rational discussion on that topic.
I understand not opening the box right now, but there's no need to nail down the lid.
Tbh I think we as a nation should actually accept we did leave and concentrate on resolving problems we had WHILE IN THE EU like housing , poor wages, public services our NHS...rejoining if it magically happens will not resolve those
@@keithparker1346 Well I think what you are saying is that the EU did not cause these problems and cannot solve them either. So these matters are unrelated to EU membership. There are other considerations, though. I live in the EU and from my perspective the EU enables us to have our voice heard. It might take away a small bit of sovereignty, but you get much more in return as collective sovereignty.
@@ulsia6740 yes our problems have not been solved or caused by EU membership. I suggest you deal with the rise of the far right in mainland Europe rather than being concerned with our insignificant country
@@keithparker1346 Can't I be concerned with both? I am following EU politics as well and I never said the UK was insignificant, or that everything is perfect in the EU. I made a general point about the EU from my perspective and why I think it is a good thing. I shared that view with you since apparently there is some debate going on in your country. Some people might find an outside view interesting. If you don't, that is OK. Just move on.
Let Labour win, then start giving out
The rise of the far right in England is a far bigger issue
People need to be out on the streets countering the Reform fascists
It's all about England isn't it. No wonder the Scots think they have been mugged
Also we need to change the voting system anyone dosent vote they have to get a fine a big amount and not a small because everyone says they want to change that's our country but when elections come around they don't vote and then they complain every elections we all got a chance to change it in the uk.
We need to get behind Reform and fight the far left Marxists.
Let's make a list of all Reform's fascist policies.....you start
Reform don't have ANY policies. They just spout populist drivel. It's easy to say we'd do this and do that, comfortable in the knowledge that you will never hold the position to enact it.
It's not that hard to figure out, Starmer is playing the long game, first he has to win this election. To do that he needs the people who voted for Brexit and would do so again!
Ah, that long game again. We took comfort from that 7 or 8 years ago, when we were told Corbyn was playing a long game too. It’s already pretty clear that Starmer will have enough seats to be honest about Brexit, and to be honest about it he needs to distance Labour from any complicity in it. It’s so simple: the Tories were running scared of UKIP (as it then was) and Cameron offered that referendum as a desperate electoral gamble. Enough voters were gulled into voting leave for the Tory govt to be forced into leaving the EU. Not a Labour policy, certainly not a wise and patriotic policy: Starmer should take his distance and dare to be critical of an ignorant, ill-informed and prejudiced electorate.
The problem is that EU countries is not interested.
@@rogersurridge96Starmer is a very cautious man, decision making is not his forte. I'm sure his toolmaker father told him if you rush things, you make mistakes.
I don't envy Starmer. He's stepping into a nest of snakes. Heaven knows how Labour is going to negotiate this mess.
It’s not that difficult, actually. Given how low the bar is, all Starmer needs to do is just be honest with the public and do his job, even on mediocre level… And his government will be comparatively brilliant. Nobody expects (or should expect) miracles of him.
Labour / Starmer have/has policies based on values. In office, he’ll pragmatically adapt these.
Labour will enjoy a honymoon period with the electorate. If seen to fail, then the right wing deluge.
@@davidcoard1978 not sure how Labour can ‘fail’. Shit in the rivers, potholes, NHS waiting lists, etc, etc. a monkey with Tourette’s could do a better job.
@@iscadean6038yet Labour seem unwilling to do what is needed
Thanks Michael . As a Labour supporter of many years standing I totally agree with you. I just dont get it. Anyone can see that BREXIT has been a total disaster and is causing untold of harm to our country yet like you say they just seem to think it can be turned around. Its stupidity at its worst and sooner or later someone has got to realise that the only way we can recover is by rejoining the EU and the Single market. Keep up the good work and Thanks.
Le Pen, Wilders, Sweden, Viktor Orban and the new right-wing in Germany.
You may want to rejoin the corrupt EU, we don't. By we I mean Labour, Conservative and Reform
@@bradsmith9689Those who took us out of the EU are the biggest corrupt ever. That's why this country is suffering. Extreme right wing will collapse and I can guarantee you. Why? Because it will be ruling with extremism. Is extremism a good policy if you are indeed rational.
I live in a new constituency formed from parts of two previously Tory ones, but the polls are currently showing all three main parties as pretty neck-and-neck, with perhaps Labour just edging LibDems as the Tories' main challengers.
I would normally vote Labour, but it's Starmer's bonkers policy on the EU which will likely divert my vote to the LibDems.
Starmer is a realist. It will take the UK at least 15-20 years a.k.a. a generation to join.
About the Australia and New Zealand deals they are only in existence because the conservatives desperately wanted those deals at any costs. The result extremely poor deals for the UK with the side effect that because of those deals any future negotiations with the EU are much more difficult near on impossible because the Australia deal as good as blocks any deal on agriculture with the EU. In the meantime New Zealand and the EU have signed a mutually beneficial free trade agreement that has come into force may 2024. As far as I know negotiations with Australia are broken off. The Labour manifesto seems to advocate a Swiss style series of deals. The very thing the EU has been trying to replace with a comprehensive single agreement. Deals even Switzerland wouldn’t get in 2024. Starmer can’t say he would like to reverse Brexit simply because that option is not up to him (the UK)
The thing you're forgetting is that's it's not up to us whether we become EU members, it's up to the EU27 nations. We can apply, but will they accept us? At the moment, and for the foreseeable future, the answer is "Non"! Brexit has been bad for Britain, but good for the EU. Their exports to us have largely kept up, a lot of what they used to buy from UK they now get from other EU countries, EU decision making is easier without opinionated Brits around the table, the EU parliament is a kinder place without that dispicable Farage there, they've gained lots of financial services business from London, they can gently usher migrant towards the Channel. Starmer won't promise rejoiin when he knows it's spmething he can't possibly deliver - that wold be stupid.
Yes, it will be a 'non' a 'nein' 'nee' a No...even from your nearest neighbours in Ireland, a resounding no thanks!!
100% I think you’re right Michael. Europe is a major issue for me too. I have not made my mind up about voting labour precisely because my interests and I believe the interests of the country visa via Europe and other elements of policy are not being addressed.
I keep getting mail asking me to contribute, but I can’t because as much as I want this decrepit govt out, I just can’t believe in Starmer or in the emphasis on growth without European involvement (if they’ll have us) …I also am concerned that the Labour Party is sticking to so many financial policies of the conservatives that are truly awful vindictive
I have concerns the party has ben bought by big business and therefore will not take significant action on wealth equality the kind that the Greens have put forward in their manifesto.
I see major issues occurring sooner than later and indeed a very short honeymoon period for Starmer.
I take no pleasure in saying any of this as I want to vote labour in… but I have too many outstanding unanswered issues to contribute or just hand my vote over on a plate. The stakes are too high.
Once the public fully realise how bad Brexit is the political parties will have to follow the groundswell of public opinion. Credit has been dripfed deliberately so the public didn't realise how bad it was going to be, they're beginning to open their eyes now.
Once people realise that it isn't Brexit that is bad, it is the way the Tories have failed to implement it, then we can move on and get a party than can do that.
Im done with Labour. Voting Green.
EU said many times before, no deals like with Switzerland anymore (150+ separate agreements) - it was one off. Lesson learned, too much mess. UK will have what it has now, and it will not change.
UK badly needs integrity in government, yet Rejoiners are forced to hope that Starmer is lying about not rejoining EU. 😭
It's not up to him. The EU decides who is allowed to join, not the UK.
@@josefinenilsson8059 What a silly reply! The argument here is clearly about a change in UK policy. Rest assured it is even less up to you.
@@josefinenilsson8059 This is true. And with Britain in its current state of democratic and social decline, there isn't a snowball in hell's chance that the EU would take it back. It has enough on its plate dealing with its increasing number of politically reactionary member states (started with Hungary, spread to Poland, now seeing it in Slovakia, Italy, France) as it is. Even more progressive states have shifted to the right. It seems every lifetime has to experience populism before it is able to realise that it is a bad path to go down.
@@jonaen24 EU membership can never be a UK-policy when UK is out of EU. There can be policies that make a succesfull application more likely, but that is about it. To recapture: To lose EU membership is UK policy. To regain membership is EU policy.
It’s entirely impossible for us to rejoin in this coming parliament. The EU would not begin renegotiations to rejoin unless BOTH main political parties didn’t support it - do you really see the current Conservatives supporting it? They would just say the would scrap it if they got back into power and so the EU wouldn’t even start the process. We need both main parties to support rejoining before it can even start. Elderly leavers are gradually dying off so it odd likely it will happen in time. Best chance to move things in a pro EU direction this election is a lot of anti Tory tactical voting so that the Lib Dens have the second most seats and become the official opposition.
Give labour a chance, what is said before the election to sway voters is not necessarily implemented after the election.
Thank you Michael for yet another brilliant blog, you are spot on!
At least we will not be governed by a bunch of Brexiteers and I sincerely hope that Starmer will do a U turn very quickly and start negotiating with the EU to rejoin
Thanks again and keep it up
Thank you 😊
Michael, as usual, you starkly point out the awful ongoing consequences of Brexit. I completely agree with you that Starmer did not have to state that we will not be rejoining the EU. He should have said nothing and let the Daily Wail run its usual drivel.
The best boost for growth would be to rejoin the union. However, they would reject us at this time. Firstly, considering the state of the pound, they would want us to align with the euro. Secondly, until we operate a decent and lawful immigration policy where we allow people granted asylum to work and pay tax growth will take far too long. We need to utilise these people to at least start growth.
Sooner or later, regardless of what Starmer stated, there will be a choice. Either start proceedings with regard to rejoining in some way or face tax increases. This could be the next referendum.
I think in the meantime, Labour will, probably at the next budget, raise capital gains tax and a tax on wealth and passive incomes from shares, equity, etc.
I'd expect two years, and the option of rejoining will be able to be openly discussed. Prior to that, we need to mend the broken relationships with our closest friends across the channel.
I still shake my head at what the politically incoherent have done to this country, but as much as I want us back in the EU, it is unfortunately too early.
I'm hopeful that once in power with a large majority, Starmer grows even more into his position. It has to be better than the chaos of the last 14 years.
And finally. Give the vote to 16 year olds to lock the torys out for at least a decade and bring in PR.
Regards. Ivan
Sadly the phrase “handcuffed to a corpse” comes to mind in terms of Brexit and someone has lost the key.
With the FPTP system I should logically vote for Labour in my area but I am struggling. I may vote Lib Dem as they are at least talking more positively about Europe .
But tactical voting is usually necessary to unseat Tories in many seats. Lib dems might be able to form the opposition but only if Labour gets a good majority.
@@kloffus3 I’ve decided to vote Labour now after seeing the official tactical voting recommendation but I will do it holding my nose. The less I see Starmer talk about Europe the better . Fingers in ears lalalala
Rejoining the EU will take time at least two parliaments and the EU need confidence we are serious and we need to regain trust. The Starmer approach is the correct one!
Hope you're right,was hopeful it'll be less than 2 parliaments tho🤦🤷♂️
But isn’t labour just playing safe when a huge win is just about in the bag? Once in office, they will work for alignment with the EU and lead the narrative slowly towards rejoining. It’s good to criticise them though for not embracing rejoining enthusiastically enough to keep the pressure on.
Hi Michael, I always enjoy your videos and generally agree with you, thank you. However for the first time I don't entirely agree with you about Sir Kier. I think he is a generally decent honest man who is our best chance. Eventually we will rejoin the EU of that I am sure. The demographics will take care of that and no matter what the politicians say they will have to take notice if they want to get elected. let's give Sir Kier a chance please. All the best and TQ again.
I detest the Tories with every fibre of my being. I'm voting labour and back them 100%. I don't want Farage and his right wing agenda. I see why labour are avoiding the Brexit issue just a bit too soon I think. Another good video Micheal you are fantastic to listen too 🤩
Our local.LP is hemorrhaging members now. Starmer is not a leader they can support.
Thank you very much Matthew 😊
As a remainer I agree with you, but we have to accept that we and our fellow remainers failed to convince 51.8% of the electorate. Labour has had to concede to that otherwise those brexit supporting Labour voters will switch to Farage.
83 % of Asian immigrants voted leave. Seen the inducement? Look at the migration numbers. Read the Washington Post and others.
Tbh I don't think Starmer is planning on changing his mind on Brexit and at this stage, I don't really mind because I believe the EU currently wouldn't trust us not to elect a pro Brexit lot in 5 years. So for that and because I believe manifestos should only contain things that are achievable in term, I'd rather Labour stuck to what can actually be done and let the country push so much that all the parties have to change stance, so that way the EU would be more likely to want us back.
I don’t think many voters see rejoining at this point in time. The media is also to blame for this for letting the right take the narrative that it was a „once in a generation“ vote.
I agree with your frustration.
If i wasn't so desperate to get rid of this despicable Tory government id vote for the Lib Dems because of their views on brexit. Unfortunately I will have to hold my nose and vote for Labour.
Yes likewise, I really do not want to vote for Starmer but, he is the least worse of the two evils.
What a poor state of affairs, grrrrr.
Thanks again Michaej, a brilliant summary of the dire situation that our country is in, aided by nearly all of our well known politicians. We have got to get back to a common sense and basic thought process for the benefit of our grandchildren. As you say there is little recognition of the terrible economic slide we are in.
Thank you Jim 😊
I think this is unfair to Starmer. A lot of very impoverished people are counting on him to repair the country, it's schools and NHS in particular. To do that he needs to win the election with a strong mandate. Therefore he avoids rocking the boat on Brexit, which despite a fall in poplarity remains a nasty wedge issue.
Very good point
All that is dependent on money. To have more money, you need an economy to grow. For an economy to grow, you need easy accessible export markets. Which, in UK's case, is the huge EU market for the biggest part. So it is going to be very hard to repair NHS, education, social care, housing and the economy in general, without reversing brexit.
No quick fixes there.
@@vullings1968 Votes are more fundamental than money. Money can be raised through a variety of means, but the power to create national budgets comes only from winning elections.
@@williamhenry8914 But votes are also lost when you can't deliver on your promises. Short term gain maybe, but if you lose the trust of the electorate, you are out in 5 years.
Starmer must listen to the wish of the people most would like to end Brexit.
A bit of positivity wouldn't go a miss we've had fourteen year's of the Tories I'm looking forward .also starmer did say he didn't mind making enemies in the pursuit of growth that I think means closer ties with the EU ,obviously he can't say it now the brexit supporting media would go into meltdown.
You're right about positivity, but it must be tempered with realism. The Tories and Brexit have left us in a very bad economic situation, and Labour's room for manoeuvre is limited due to it.
There is a difference between getting closer ties with the EU to reduce trade friction and increase UK imports and exports, and being able to rejoin the EU. First of all, there is no specific way back. We have to apply from scratch and that will take years. Secondly, the EU is not going to be treated like a UK political football. If the EU makes agreements with Labour, they have to be sure that they won't all be undone if the Tories ever get into power again. It is not within Starmer's gift to rejoin. It is up to every single EU country to decide if and when we can rejoin. The other thing to keep in mind, is even if we rejoin years in the future, the EU is not standing still. We will not have all the perks and the special agreements we had. We will rejoin a very different EU to the one we left. Everybody needs to keep this in mind, when slating Starmer. The best that can ever be hoped for is better agreements than the disasterous ones agreed by the appalling Johnson and Frosty the No Man.
How exactly does your first phrase actually work?
@@keithparker1346 Well, getting new agreements on things like security, immigration, trade frictions, etc et al.. Because the appalling agreements the waste of space that Johnson and his No Man were, agreed are absolute unmitigated disasters. If you want something that works, you have to find a way to make it work. If you want to keep the balls up Brexit that the Tories inflicted, you live with the consequences for the rest of your days. How do bands tour in the EU? They will need visas for every one of them and their crew, and can onlly tour for three months every 2 years. How do banks, researchers, academics work in the EU? They can only do so for three months in total every two years. How do people use their time shares, their properties in the EU? How do they get the money from renting them out, if their bank can't operate anywhere in the EU? These are things that need to be ironed out. How come we are now short of nearly 200 drugs? How do we deal with that? This is what I mean by renegotiating every single thing Johnson buggered up..
He'll have to face the elephant in the room at some point. I'm hoping his current stance is purely for electoral purposes. Similarly with PR; that's going to be a pre-requisite for re-joining. FPTP is way too volatile (and undemocratic). There's also the distinct possibility that the LibDems may form the Opposition, so Brexit would be most certainly on the cards.
France does not have PR and as far as I can see the EU have no rules on the voting system of a country?
@@edwardbernthal160 I didn't claim that it had rules on PR. What I said was that FPTP produces a very volatile political system, which tends to pendulate between one extreme and the other.
@@MattWhite-vh6xh how can ''Similarly with PR; that's going to be a pre-requisite for re-joining'' when it is not an EU rule?
@@edwardbernthal160 Jeez!
Because they're not going to go through all that hassle again in terms of allowing re-entry, if the whole thing has to be reversed...yet again, if and when the Tories get back in. They've got more important things to worry about other than a nation that can't make its mind up from one term of office to the next.
@@MattWhite-vh6xh I don't see that this has anything to do with what I asked? I agree with discussions about rejoining the EU being pointless, right now getting the place back on its feet is enough to be getting on with isn't it. Anyway, isn't the EU talking of making it possible for the EU/UK young to have freedom to travel ,study and work?
I'd said back in June 2016 on the eve of the Brexit vote to a friend in the UK that Brexit would be a chronic failure and the UK would "implode".
Almost 8 years since that evening it's a living testament to all I've said;it's deteriorated further every successive day and having the UK in an abyss which unfortunately was the result of not thinking out of the box but relying on unscrupulous and deviant politicians like Nigel Farage who reigned even on his word of "leaving the UK".
Fear not.
Nothing is permanent except change.
The country seems to be between a rock and a hard place.Thanks Micheal.Have a relaxing weekend.
The healing cannot start before you've hit rock bottom and it's still ways to go.
You're probably right.
Spot on, suns Brexit up perfectly. I work in exports, it's now a complete nightmare 😢
That's why I vote tactically and LibDems where possible, used to be a protest vote so I protest, only ones to say rejoin proper from day one, if lucky will get them in coalition with Labour so rejoin can be delivered or at least challenge Starmer's make the Bre*it work stance
Why did cameron call for the referendum in the first place, noone was talking about the EU at that time, that i can remember, it came out of the blue.
To appease the right-wing ERG component in the Tory Party - and to blunt UKIP's rhetoric that was starting to cause mischief for the Conservative Party.
You don't take much notice of politics, do you.
Micheal, it's simple he has Tory values, and we can't continue with brexit. We are a trading nation
It’s like booking a trip to Dignitas and finding you’ve been misdiagnosed a couple of weeks before you’re due to go but insisting that you’ve made a decision and you are going to stick by it!
I think it is worse than dignitas. At least there they give you a nice chocolate.
😁😁😁
@@terencefield3204 I think (am sure) that Sir Terence would have been livid! Stumps me how your country gave us both the best (sir Terry) and the worst (name makes one think of fartage)
@@astranger448 Sorry old chap, I left ages ago when mammoths roamed across Woking. Merci Dieu.
Excellent economic analysis. Thanks a lot, Michael, keep up your great work!
Thanks 😊
Thank you Michael, totally agree. Have a great weekend.
💯 % on point Michael.
Right on the money Michael as usual.
Thanks Ray 😊
"Brexit's a slow puncture"..that's the best description of it I have heard
Is the water rising or the dinghi slowly deflating?
I would have more respect for Starmer if he'd held onto his original belief about Brexit instead of listening to focus groups in the grubby scramble for votes.
Couldn’t agree more but we must change this goverment before being able to do anything.
It will not be possible to get the same trade deals we had in the EU. Not even if we rejoined the EU? Britain will struggle to be as rich a country as it was, there has been so many companies that have gone bust, and they will not just reopen? The EU, won’t offer us as good a deal as we had, when we were in the EU? The recovery is going to be long and hard. And it looks inevitable that we will, someday have to rejoin the single market, at least?!
Getting treated the same way as everyone else, shocking isn't it
Sitting on a fence is undeniably painful and Starmer has to BIDE HIS TIME, OUR TIME AND THE EU'S TIME in order to adapt and develop a strategy. The old "walk before trying to run" routine... Incidentally I think the French use of 'marcher' as meaning to function as well as to walk is therefore appropriate here. At the moment we cannot function at all as is SO painfully obvious!
He needs to take the country along, he must work at convincing the next generation of voters before trying to retrieve the voters that are leaving or have left already. He must also study and work with the EU leaders who have changed or are about to change.
Finally he may well be aware that he needs to be the stepping stone to the bridge rather than the bridge itself. In other words try and repair the country before the next PM who will get us back into Europe is electable.
He may be saying 'never' not to shut the door, but to buy time before knocking on that door again, hopefully with a renewed electoral system and certainly with a renewed much younger electorate who will UNDERSTAND what they are doing and a new PM who will have shed the rattling of the Brexit pans on his or her tails.
Hope this makes some sense... Thank you for giving us the opportunity to exchange our views. Without Brexit we would never have found you to conduct such a faithful gang of 'thinkers' - warts and all!
I think of Brexit as a pebble in a shoe. At first it’s a bit uncomfortable but you think that you can probably make it down to the shops. The more steps that you take the more uncomfortable it becomes until eventually, after trying to go for a hike, you have an emergency situation on your hands. You are reduced to a crippled hop in place of striding along, it’s just a matter of time.
Brexit will have seen off five Prime Ministers in eight years.....let's see how long the next one lasts.
You hit the nail on the head. For several years, the country has experienced so much of Tory shenanigans, it becomes easy to lose focus on the single underlying reason.
It's a frustration for me, that Starmer has decided to accept the 'Brexit' baton and take his turn to run for government with it.
I hope not - but I fear it will be another 'whoops' event.
@@lloydbelle3406 Apart from the 'never' bit, does he really have a choice? There's literally no way for the UK to join the EU within a decade, most likely three, whether he accepts the baton or not. The best he can do is improve competitiveness by realigning standards, legislation and regulations without calling it realigning.
As for the 'never' bit, the first time he said it he really could not have known that Tories would end up crapping the bed so badly as to make themselves unelectable. Letting yet another GE be about Brexit would've been politically disastrous so he had to close the door on that firmly if not exactly smartly.
Five years is my guess. And then back to Tory musical chairs.
@@jounik Sorry, but I can't dismiss the 'never' bit, because it is the 'never' bit that is central to my criticism of him. We all know that no politician has a squeaky clean integrity record, and we both understand that Starmer had to be careful with his words because he needed to attract red wall voters who still thought Brexit success had potential. Starmer needed to exercise caution and be economical with the truth. Using the word 'never' was far from clever.
There is absolutely nothing about Brexit that can be deemed successful; and I don't buy the argument of not forseeing the Tories crapping the bed. This is exactly what @Ribod's comment is all about - Brexit has seen off every Prime Minister, starting with Cameron. I can't swear when Starmer first used the 'Never' word, but I'm sure he must have witnessed Boris crapping the bed before he said it...
@@lloydbelle3406 I think he first said in late 2021 or early 2022 but I can't find it just now. I'll copy this from another comment of mine: As things stand, if after 4-5 years the public sentiment in the UK really has changed so much that the overwhelming majority of the population feels positive about joining the EU and clearly accepts the rather fundamental changes to the political and economical realities of the country, all Labour needs to do to hop on that train is to change the leader. Starmer made sure to include the "under my leadership" in the original statement and it's not like he expects to lead the party for three decades, anyway.
I believe Starmer will improve relationships with the EU. We have to make ourselves more attractive to the EU, because we need a GOOD rejoin, not a begging bowl rejoin. Right now we're a sewage-covered basket case of a country. We need to work on foundations, because the Tories have left NOTHING to build on.There could be a change of leader in Labour which could revisit a desire to rejoin. Ultimately if Labour want to continue in Government they will be forced to listen to the people or be removed. I'm frustrated that this might not happen in my lifetime, and I hate the Tories for the devastation they've inflicted across the UK, but I want the best for future generations, and I know that will take time.
Meet the Copenhagen criteria and apply to join. Good luck!
What kind of deluded nonsense is a „begging bowl rejoin“? The only way to join the EU as a third country is to apply for membership according to article 49 and fulfill the Copenhagen Criteria!
'not a begging bowl rejoin'
That's the spirit. Turn up with a shopping list of the optouts, concessions, exemptions and rebates you expect. That'll show 'em
If you live another 30 years you might be around for Britain joining the EU.
Britain won't get the same sweet deal that it had the last time round. No rebate , no optouts. It will be hard to get the British public to vote for a deal like that.
@@frankoneill5675
That definitely won’t be happening again!
You make a valid point, Brexit destroyed this country and no matter who takes the helm, it’s going to be the thing that stifles growth
Spot on as always! Thank you
Excellent as always Michael 👏👏👏
Thanks Andrew 😊
I was going to vote Labour, but thanks to Angela Rayner saying there’s no chance of us going back on Brexit, or allowing freedom of movement, I’m going to vote LibDem. I wonder how many other voters are thinking the same way?
A large number. Tories and Remain are for the knuckle-draggers and racists. Labour is focussing too much on the red-wall voters and taking the 'sensible centrists' for granted. And let's not even discuss the dwindling health of elephants in the room due to Climate Change....
Peter, the LibDems have already kicked rejoining the EU into the long grass , not that there is any chance they will have a say in the matter
She can not promise anything the UK side can not control. Only the EU can decide. Just start working on Copenhagen criteria and follow article 49 ;-)
I really cannot see how voting for a party who has promised the exact opposite of what I want to see can in any way be called tactical.
Just unleash Britains’ potential NOW: show the world what your BREXIT leaders promised to do!! Thank you Michael for keeping your compatriots close to reality. Your grandchildren will make it happen🥳🥳💪💪.
Your Grandchildren support Rejoining the EU. In fact, their parents also support rejoining the EU. The only people who like the Tory Brexit Balls ups are the grandparents who supported leave.
Starmer will go go to Brussels “We want …”. “OK, in return we want …”. “What?”. (Do you know who we are?”).
Totally agree with you Michael. Starmers's honeymoon will not last long. We are in such a terrible state that it will takes years to get back to "normal". And that's not accounting for the self-harm of BrexShit! Most people I know are really not keen on Labour, but the overriding narrative is that we have to just get rid of the Tories!! "We're all doomed", to quote Dad's Army. Ha ha.
It’s boris Johnson’s bad deal