7 Reasons People Hate Jazz | You'll Hear It S1 E145
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2018
- Today, Peter and Adam talk about 7 reasons that people hate jazz.
Episode #145 from the "You'll Hear It" podcast - daily jazz advice from a couple of jazz dudes. Jazz musicians Peter Martin & Adam Maness give you daily tips on how to develop as a jazz player. Listen for a combo of actionable advice and occasional humor in just 10 minutes a day.
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1. it sounds complicated 1:24
2. mostly it's instrumental 4:31
3. too many dudes... 7:10
4. often acoustic... 8:46
5. jazz musicians are nerds 10:22
6. songs are long 14:01
7. people are dumber than they used to be 15:21
Eighth reason should be because Jazz musicians are annoying, ostentatious, and snobby.
1. Almost never a melody
2. Complicated just for the sake of being complicated.
3. Improvisational, almost never hear the same song twice.
4. Dissonance, multiple musicians playing without regard to what the others are playing.
5. The songs have to be explained to be enjoyed.
6. The songs are created for the enjoyment of the performer and not the audience.
7. Self righteous snobs who look down their nose and make a comment like "most people are too dumb to understand it."
for me the most annoying thing is that it's hard to find a tune,we never heard the same melody two times, improvisation for the sake of improvisations, lot of times it's overwhelming and the feeling it's just a mess ,there's no flow ..oh and i despise the dissonant feeling. i just way prefer classical music
@@rhythmicmusicswap4173 100% agree
Classical is noble
Jazz is snob(le)
Holy shit i am surprised of how dumb people can be. You cannot talk about something you dont even listen. And why the fuck would improvisarion be bad, i agree aome “jazz musicians” make music complicated just for the sake of being complicated, but real jazz musicians understand improvisation to the point it becomes the best tool to express themselves, and that is why jazz is jazz, it has improv everywhere because musicians really need to express themselves freely and spontanously. People are just so stupid nowdays that cant even take a second to think music as an art a little bit, not only as pure commercial entretainment as they show with new pop.
I'm an amateur jazz musician. I often think jazz is like an inside game for the musicians to have a blast together playing, but that is really difficult for most listeners to find a way into as listeners. Obviously playing funkier, more straightforward and simple forms makes it more fun for many audiences.
My fundamental problem with Jazz is that the musicians are having more fun than the audience.
A lot of the time, they are playing for themselves and not the audience.
It's a lot like masturbation. Oh my solo is so good, look how good I am.
Not when the audience is 5 other jazz musicians and a bartender
@@TranquiloTrev What are they doing on stage then?
@@DrJoshGuitar Ba-Dump-Dum! :-)
Seven reasons to Love Jazz:
Art Blakey - Moanin'
Hank Mobley - Soul Station
Horace Silver - Song For My Father
John Coltrane - Blue Train
McCoy Tyner - The Real McCoy
Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
Kenny G?
@@thecookreportingjail. Straight to jail.
I don’t think he’s really jazz tho
The problem with a lot of Jazz is where the musicians chops and knowledge of music theory have reached such a level that they feel compelled to showcase it at every opportunity. It can be exhilarating to watch live but on record it sounds, ironically a bit "one note".
Knowledge of music is one thing, and being able to make a good song is completely another. Jazz people don't get the difference.
A lot of truth in that.
*cough cough* Jacob Collier *cough cough*
I'd say quite the opposite. Many hard working jazz musicians probably do not feel the need to produce music that is desirable to the barbarian hoard. There's good jazz and not so good jazz like anything. Smoke a joint, lay down on a big bean bag, and listen to "Some Kind of Blue" start to finish and tell me it's incredible, start to finish, so intensely emotional. It's hard to explain jazz to people who are too lazy or ignorant to understand it. I'd rather play great music in front of 2 educated enthusiasts, than some soulless drivel in front of thousands.
@@chnacr2 I mean jacob collier is pretty easy to hear
I recommend watching on x2 speed
Speedcore gang
Jazz is my favorite genre of music..i grew up on punk, thrash, rap, and grunge.. and I hated Jazz..but as I got older it took me on a ride and helped out tremendously with my anxiety and depression.
Same man. Grew up with rap, Tupac, Nas, Eminem, J. Cole. But I soon learned to love this genre too
I just listened to jazz since it was my favourite music to sample and eventually I just fell in love with, I still enjoy other genres though like rock, hiphop and funk
The thing I realized after 6 years of studying jazz is that hip hop is really just an evolution of jazz.
I grew up listening and knowing a lot of jazz musicians at home because my father is a lover. But as a rock, punk and metal listener too, it was only in the last 5 years, jazz entered kicking the door and stay as one of my favourite genres. I think jazz os like food: lots of tastes and textures, there some you you like, and there's some you don't. And like you, it is a very good friend of mine in times of depression. Nowadays I'm not into punk and metal as I used to be.,
I like the atmosphere jazz creates in a club/bar. I listen to jazz records and I zone out. Is it just me?
no
No..
I am with you..love Jazz.
My favorite genre of music..
I picture myself at a late night club in a movie set in the early 90's new york.
Jazz is not just for "zoning out". You can listen to it and be excited , enthused, and have great joy. Its not just there like some utilitu.
Cringe
4 minutes in and my point is proven with long winded explanation to a easy answer. Jazz musicians love to hear themselves talk
Yeah that's what I pick up. I think they hit the pipe too much.
Yep....... right ON. Stereotypical pretentiousness.
What- It's a podcast that's what they're supposed to do, expand on certain topics. Not limited to people who like jazz.
😂😂
So you came here to listen to a podcast, and then got bitter because they were talking.. makes sense.
I wish I liked jazz, but I've never been able to. It's difficult for me to put my finger on it, but there are a few things I believe just turn me off. First of all, some instruments featured frequently in jazz, like trumpet and sax, tend to emphasize bright timbres and high notes throughout a piece. For me, those qualities are best left to special moments in a song to create variety. When blared at me constantly, they just drive me nuts and lose any emotional value. To me, that's like yelling. It's okay to yell at times, but if someone does it all the time, I just want them to shut the hell up. :-) Another big problem for me is that I just don't like swing very much. I certainly like rhythmic diversity, and I know jazz has a good amount of that. But swing just doesn't create any value for me unless it's used in a very strategic and limited fashion. Another issue may be song form. I don't need ABA or anything particularly predictable, but for me, jazz songs often don't give me an enjoyable feeling of progression. Flow is often broken by soloing periods designed to show off musicianship. It makes me concentrate more on the performer than on the composition and story. There are things I like in jazz. I do like many of the chord colors used, and I enjoy listening to non-jazz music that utilizes jazz harmonies, especially without jazz progressions, "licks" and rhythms.
Why don't you give a listen to some newer stuff which is more fusion based like go go penguin, Alfa mist or Robert Glasper?
@@samuelehret-pickettfrankli6193 Thanks for the suggestions!
@@communityband1 that's alright. You might enjoy it abit more than the traditional stuff
I feel the same way as you about solos. I really like precomposed parts od jazz music - often full of original ideas, complex harmonies and rhythms etc, but as soon as the solos start I tend to lose interest and get annoyed quickly. I often feel that despite all the virtuosity, improvisations tend to make a lot of jazz sound very similar.
@@klapaucjusz1 YES!!!
I was never a fan of jazz until I decided to try a few key chord progressions. As most guitar players probably know, there's a difference between listening to music and playing it. One thing that is cool about jazz is that you'll be learning new chords that you can apply to other forms of music. You'll definitely find it useful playing the blues, but you'd be surprised to discover "jazz" chords in some songs by rock groups. Check out the chord progression for "Under the Bridge" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers, or "The Rain Song" by Led Zeppelin. .
wow almost everyone in this comment section seems to really, really hate jazz. I don't get it. People are saying it "lacks form and structure" and that it's "discordant", and I've never really gotten any of that. Unless you're listening to extreme free jazz, jazz is quite structured and the harmony is usually very functional. I really think the "jazz is just random notes" mindset is a serious problem, and I worry that it's making people adopt a certain set of views about jazz that they hold to be absolute without ever really giving the music a chance to speak for itself.
I don't hate jazz, but many songs have like the sax so high in volume and the rest so low, it's like, resign to barely listen to the band or get a punch in the ear every now and then, or play with the volume knob the whole song. Maybe it's just that I'm young and born with music that's pretty omogenous in volume, but it's frustrating.
One thing I heard Dave King say on a podcast that really spoke to me, was that playing with The Bad Plus, they'd have people who had no concept of what jazz was, or what they were/where they were coming from for that matter, who would come up after a show having really enjoyed it! And that's The Bad Plus! Not exactly Kenny G on the bandstand. And to him that said that most people would probably enjoy jazz, but you'll never get it unless you get into it through a live experience. I really believe that. I introduced a buddy of mine to jazz last year. We went to Smalls while we were in NYC and checked out Ari's Monday night thing there (with Orlando LeFleming and Gilad Hekselman that night). My buddy had ABSOLUTELY no background coming into this, and he REALLY loved it. Also managed similar success with another friend checking out the real Kenny G(arrett) a few years ago. Maybe it depends who your live intro to jazz is idk, but just being exposed to it in the right way, in a living, breathing, joyful way... seems to work! Just discovering this podcast now by the way, and really love it, thanks for doing this guys
Nice in theory, and maybe it's worked for some people you know. But my experience is much difference. I was actually taken to see Buddy Rich live once (and no, it wasnt my idea), when I was at a young and impressionable age (around 12 or so). Guess what? Did zilch for me. The only kind of jazz that is listenable for me is the 'big band' stuff from the 30s, that often used vocalists. If I had to guess the reason I never warmed up the genre, I would suggest that a lot of jazz lacks form and structure. I am big on form and structure in the art that I enjoy - not just in music, but in other forms as well.
@@wylier I definitely can't speak for everyone. To each their own
Wylie, jazz has complex form and structure not a lack of it
@@wesphillips7336 absolutely. It’s just not immediately obvious to the listener.
I don't know why or how I stumbled upon this video, but, to be honest, I don't agree with it at all. I think I am a tolerable guitar player, although I don't even dare to think I'm a virtuoso and I won't compare myself to seasoned jazz musicians. With this in mind, here are my reasons to dislike jazz:
1. To the untrained ear, or, at the very least, to my ear everything sounds the same. I mean, not exactly the same, but it's either too chaotic (which is not the same as complex), or, when it is not chaotic, it is just elevator music. Most jazz guitar solos that I've heard sound way too similar to me - the same tone, the same tempo, the same rhythm, and no matter how technically proficient the guitarist is, when I can find more variety in a random power metal album, why shouldn't I listen to that instead?
2. I can't think of even ONE new jazz song. I'm not saying there aren't any, but even classical musicians and classical music fans aren't so stuck in the past. I've never heard anyone speak about "rock standards" or "metal standards", or "pop standards". With jazz... It's all standards, man!
3. Jazz fans are even more obnoxious than prog metal fans, and their habit to defecate upon other genres is really grating. After I saw 'Whiplash' (a movie that I loved, by the way, although purely musically it doesn't make a lot of sense), I searched for a few Buddy Rich solos to see why the leading character was so obsessed by him. Do you know how many comments mocking rock/metal drummers I saw under his videos? This, combined with their habit to constantly stroke their ego, is extremely off-putting, plus, it shows me mostly that they're ignorant. Why should I respect their opinion then?
I agree to a large extent with point 1 and 3. But as for 2 - there are loads of great modern jazz pieces being composed all the time. It's not true that everybody just plays old standards. I hate standards, and I love many modern jazz compositions - that is up until the point when they start improvising.
@@klapaucjusz1 ah, could you recommend some modern jazz to me? Im just starting to learn about this genre...
I agree with 2 and 3. I'm a guitar player for 27 years, and a predominantly jazz/fusion, electronic jazz player. Ultimately, a jazz player can play any musical style, but they choose to play jazz. Improvised jazz is absolutely the purest form of musical expression. It's like watching a black belt jiu jitsu match and not understanding it if you've never taken a jiu jitsu class. People hate jazz cause they don't understand it. Usually they don't understand it because they have no or not enough theory to connect the dots, or a lot of the time they;re just not willing to put in the years of dedication it takes to be able to improve jazz effectively and melodically.
@@heavyweaponsscout9990 I'd start with Miles Davis and then look into the sidemen and then their sidemen. Today's jazz goes in so many different directions it's hard to say what you might like. Somebody from today that you might like is Christian McBride.
@@ezumach Wow, you say you agree and then you act exactly like those obnoxious jazz fans that I lambasted. I don't agree that a jazz played can play any musical style, by the way. Unless you're Alex Skolnick or someone like him - he is equally well versed in jazz and thrash metal - you can't. People like Skolnick are a rarity, though. You can play what you're trained at.
Also, with enough theory you can find an excuse for basically everything. Hell, we've seen that in metal plenty of times too. It's almost like a joke - Kerry King's solos aren't just some random notes on the fret board, they're actually the result of very intricate and complex use of the chromatic scale. Sometimes I feel the same about jazz, and it's obvious that I'm not alone. Why do you think there are so many jokes about jazz being an excuse to play wrong notes exist? I just listened to Yuja Wang's jazz rendition of Mozart's "Turkish March" and as much as I appreciate her technical abilities, I don't think I'll ever be able to listen to something like this just for pleasure. It honestly sounded like some cat was running on the keyboard while Wang was playing. And please don't give me this "people don't understand it" BS. The same people usually don't need education to appreciate classical music.
Number one reason squares hate jazz, they have been brain washed by the CORPORATE music industry 24/7 to accept the LOWEST common denominator of music, which has pretty much rendered the masses tone deaf. That doesn’t bother me, because I quit buying into the media hype when I was 16, I am 66 now. The minute I HEARD Coltrane, Miles, Bird, Ornette, Cecil Taylor, the Art Ensemble of Chicago, that ENDED “pop culture, celebrity hype” music for me. Why listen to hacks when you can listen to geniuses?
Right on. Brainwashing BY the M(ASS)MEDIA. FOR THE M(ASS)ES.
I tend to like its offshoots like jazz hop (Tribe Called Quest), trip-hop (Funki Porcini, Massive Attack, Skalpel, Mr. Scruff, Red Snapper), fusion or jazz funk (Weather Report), ambient/downtempo (Richard Bone, Groove Armada’.
One of the big reasons I hate jazz is because there's always some jazz musician ready to tell you "you just don't get it," or some crap like "it takes a trained ear to like jazz." Guess what? People are allowed to hate your music. The music sounds like crap, the musicians are pretentious, and you know what? I'll just go ahead and say it, jazz schmazz.
Jazz is improvisational and no matter how good you are, when you improvise you will fall into familiar patterns, runs and techniques and that makes Jazz have a sameness about it. The monotony of improvised music is probably the biggest factor for it's unpopularity. Also, the tiresome elitism is a huge turn off.
If you think about it, we all have the same 12 notes, and there’s only so much you can do with 12 notes so pretty much every song you hear will have similar patterns in it to the last few songs you just listened to
If you listen to a lot of music in any genre, chances are you will run into a lot of similar patterns within that genre, not just jazz
@@alannoob1926 But it's interesting that even in 12 notes, jazz builds notes doing all abstract chord voicing and put it on diverse mode. Sometimes less is more. I mean, that's why I love blues/rock. Nowadays I fall into funk and punk too. Those genres don't show a significant change of chord and notes(but some goes progressively), but still those musicians can make a remarkable riff and sound-even if that is just made of only 3 chord or something-I believe The Cure's song In Your House or Primary are good examples. And I don't think jazz is that riffy or hooky. And it's not like a song to sing along all the way. Jazz is very long(early swing jazz is an exception) and it's so about improvisation. Herbie Hancock's 42 minute of live version of "Hornets" says all, I am just astonished. And the progression of bass is so impressive. And damn drum, I can't even keep my ears its tempo and beat. I think in song, its bass is so important, without it all notes will just shatter and whole sound will become chaotic..and throughout song, bass holds everything tight and based on it keyboard and brass spread everything.
@@user-eb8mi3xi5f Isn’t that kinda cool tho, that with only 12 notes a jazz has found a way to diversify so much and still keep it musical(for the most part)? Also I love funk, Tower of Power is my favorite funk band and they’ll use a lot of jazz elements in their music too. I think Jazz, funk and rock aren’t that different. If you listen to the right people, Jazz can be super groovin and have remarkable moments just like rock. And if you like the idea of “less is more”, then Miles Davis and Count Basie are your go to artists. They didn’t play to show off, they played for the music.
@@alannoob1926 True, funk and rock have some jazz element, funk chord that mainly used, like Dominant 7th(that is also can be found in blues many times)..Its chord progression sounds fantastic. And the riff is also from jazz, jazz put some riff, based on it an improvisation is spread. I listen to jazz but to me it's not catchy at once, it takes some time. It does take time to enjoy brass section or rhythm section deeply. Rock otherwise, its main guitar riff(like iconic Deep Purple's Smoke On The Water) and bass are so dominant that it's easy to recognize, and singer or keyboard bring color. Drum is there to hold everything tight with bass. And jazz drum has so much swing and groove, it's interesting to see some rock drummer is very influenced by jazz. I love jazz drumming on Harry Connick jr's Love Is Here To Stay's intro. And actually that "less is more" was from my tiredness of bebop guitar..It didn't work for me. So I can find jazz trio(recently I rediscover Ray Brown trio and the album called Soular Energy) or something like that, but then soon smooth jazz and fusion got me. Larry Carlton is great. Jeff Beck too.
I heard BIRD at 12 years old and I found it very easy to understand, no problem. I heard Trane at 14, I loved it straight away. My son heard BIRD at 3 years old, he said he found it beautiful. Yet I am an African and jazz is not part of our culture. I am proof that it has nothing to do with education but a taste.
African music is part of jazz tho. Created by african americans
@@RocknJazzer no it's not at all related to Africa or African culture. It's strictly black Americans influence!!!!
@@LawrinMaxwellsmpc500 You may want to investigate the roots deeper and farther back. Elements of african music and culture has been said to have been passed down from pure africans to their african american lineage in the early stages of development. Much has been said by many african american historians and musicians of the many african musical roots and influences on the creation of jazz, which may not be obvious at first being so distant, but elements of native african rhythms, pitch, melody, call and response, improvisation and narration have been said to influenced jazz.
But jazz is really a melting pot...from the new orleans mixing and meeting of diverse cultures such as African American, Anglo American, French, German, Italian, Mexican, Caribbean, and American Indian musical influences in the stew of jazz. So really it's a little bit of everybody and everything. If you have proof that is not the case tho please send me all the ethnomusicology research papers that say that is not the case. I dont think you will find any
Sometimes I listen to this podcast instead of jazz because it’s an easier listen and you don’t have to be as open in a sense of perception plus this is opening me up sometimes when I’m not in the mood for jazz
Ya like jazz?
I think the reason why some people hate jazz is that to them it sounds like elevator music.
That may be true RJ. Thanks for listening & watching!
I just really don't like the timbre of woodwind instruments lol
Elevator music is typically bossa nova so not sure where you got that.
Yeah... an elevator that is falling down, banging on the walls and also on fire.
I hate jazz because it has been made into lo fi and it reminds me me of the kids I hate at school
The 2017 book 'Stealth Jazz: Behind the Curtain' explains this very well.
to play complicated just because you are able to , is what a lot of guys (that I know) do. With this you impress a few other musicians but not the audience. We live in the dark ages of jazz (Barry Harris is right hahaha )
hey, cool it with the antisemitism man.
@@googlenazicompany5935 modern jazz in a nutshell
@@googlenazicompany5935 more like plastic age of jazz, today's jazz is souless pretentious wank that doesn't swing nor can you dance to it.
It's not wrong notes.
It's not really random either.
It's improv and a lot goes into it. Music theory. Jazz players like myself have to understand it and it takes years to fully comprehend and it is not easy. Jazz is fun to play and fun to listen to if you understand it's not random notes.
It's not fun to play at all tbh
I dont want to have to go to music college for 8 years to appreciate a song.
@@nycholaus or just be in band during highschool
Like me.
I'm not gonna study music but if you're in band you can get scholarships
@@Simone-xe9cw not fun to learn*, fun to play (once practiced)
I enjoyed jazz once I learn a simple jazz, very simple... Once I see and heard other dudes playing jazz together with complicated beat and key, it's sounds so annoying to my ear.... My point is the same as u.., you enjoying jazz if u understand it....
I play metal 99% of the time, and playing jazz giving me some insight to me when writing metal.
I got into Bossa Nova and that lead me into all those great jazz chords
Jazz is music for musicians. Jazz is not meant to appeal to everyone, especially non musicians.
I feel like jazz has "experimental syndrome" where it's often writen or played for craftmanship purposes rather than art purposes. The pieces that focus on the song end up really awesome. I think that's why other genres often use jazz techniques better than jazz does
I tried listening to easy listening once and it wasn't easy. 😄
It's like reading a book vs watching TV. A lot of jazz is implicit, and the listener has to provide input. If you don't want to do this, that is ok. But it is not an elitist activity any more than reading.
How do you provide input? Listening to music is passive.
@Google Sucks Ass please explain. I enjoy playing and creating music. They are not passive as I have to do something in the world to do them. It's also like me replying to this or not.
It would be interesting to hear a show about how listeners came to love jazz. Maybe I'll leave a message on one of your many outlets. Great show.
I only had four reasons why I hate it - thanks for the other three!
I fell in love with jazz at 7 years old when I watched the premiere first showing of " a Charlie Brown Christmas on TV in 1966 featuring the Vince Guaraldi Trio. Come on how can you not like that. Its not like its "Cecil Taylor" smh
My sincere apologies
I remember taking jazz back in the day n the instructor was saying he studied so much he tried to forget parts of what he learned so he could enjoy the music more lol
Seriously, that's why sun-ra was talking about space ships and him not being from Earth.
I myself love jazz and I try to show some to my dad. He is def not dumb or ignorant, he’s a CEO. He’s just under so much stress that the jazz is just too stimulating for him (which I believe could help clear his mind 🤷🏼♂️) so he likes simple EDM that has exactly the same beat for 5 minutes. The thing is he doesn’t even want to start listening to jazz. Like he already made up his mind on jazz
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It's simple: Jazz musicians abandoned swing/groove/rhythm.
They went all-in on complexity, syncopation, sophistication, and turned their backs on what makes music hit people's souls.
I like and respect jazz, but the problem is not dissonance, amount of notes, acoustic instruments, nerds, but what jazz has abandoned.
All the music theory and sophistication in the world does not equate to soul.
That's why I love funk.
God tier comment, one of the only intelligent ones I've seen
Aw mate you fucking NAILED it. See, I just went off to attempt to enjoy Herbie Hancock. I'm sat listening to it and trying to pick up the vibe. It's like... what if Funkadelic but wrong?
I like the syncopation, though it can really bring up a groove.
@@darthvader4339 I like syncopation, groove, polyrhythms, and complex music, and I like some Jazz songs and pieces. However, my point is that some Jazz musicians are out to be complex and not rhythmic or melodic, few people relate. It is my understanding that the intention of early bebop artists were out to be complex and intellectual musically. I'm not against musicians that want to play that way. I'm simply explaining why people are deterred from Jazz.
For example, some rap beats are syncopated, have groove, harmonically complex, and polyrhythmic, but they contain a tune people can grasp, relate and dance to, just like Jazz when it was popular.
Many people who hate jazz actually hate bebop and its legacy. Bebop made jazz complicated and self-centered. I like it, but it's truly hard to get.
I used to think so, but bebop is the soul of jazz, once you get the language.....it's a powerful form of jazz
@@Bruce.-Wayne I agree. Before bebop, jazz was swing, dixieland, pop music. Bebop gave it that artistic edge. It is harder to digest, though.
@@canastraroyal ....yes, bebop is no joke...guys like Charlie parker and other pioneers of the movement were phenomenal....but as with every language, I guess the more you emerge into it, the better you get....bebop is not easy listening at all, I'll listen to smooth jazz and have a good time....😅
what’s the name of that song playing at the beginning?
"Peter Martin - Emotion In Motion" If you were still wondering hahaha
@@vertixv6584hey thanks!
You don't hate Jazz, you FEAR Jazz...
Right on. People are brainwashed. Relentless corrupt advertising sells all popular music to the unwitting masses . That on top of that have no taste .
No, most people hate it, fearing they may have to hear it
I think Jazz is music for musicians
👍👍👍👍👍.....the best answer in this thread where so many are ignorant of what jazz is
I hate Jazz because I'm too lazy and or not smart enough to appreciate how great it is? LOL (I'm just having some fun!)
You dont have to be smart to appreciate it, who's telling people that? :(
Only part of it - bebop- is sophisticated to listen to rather than just play.
If you're interested, here's one of my favorite songs that I think is normal.
m.ua-cam.com/video/3xpcBx1Gm-c/v-deo.html
Although, I have high respects for artists within the Jazz community due to their high level of technical proficiency. The discordant nature of most songs within the genre doesn't appeal to me the slightest bit. I feel like perhaps I am missing an important factor that lacks more appreciation, and that this is a fault of my own... Can someone who enjoys Jazz, please help me figure this out?
TLDR: The discordant sounding jazz is a mechanically acquired jazz. You gotta play it (bebop, the fast jazz) to enjoy it, but kudos for being a respectful person, but you don't need to like it. It's only like half of what's played anyways.
The factor for discordant songs is playing them themselves. 3 years ago when I started playing, this would've been impressive, but bad or weird to listen to.
m.ua-cam.com/video/02apSoxB7B4/v-deo.html
But now I love it because I understand what's going on because I play myself. It's like if someone on a farm (I've met people like that in WV) saw basketball for the first time. It's just running, bouncing, occassionally dodging people, and throwing. Not really, and the more you play it, the better you become at observing, the more impressive some actions and moves become in your mind, as you understand what you're watching (in this case listening to). The more my friends and I play and listen, the more we come to enjoy some of (but not all, because some actually IS trash) the weird, "discordant" sound, because we learn ourselves from listening it actually. It's just unlike the normal pop and rap we hear, the 2 biggest genres, so we aren't used to it. It's a culture shock that we sometimes react negatively to. It's a learn to play, then enjoy as you play thing.
I've honestly never thought jazz sounded "discordant" and I am unable to understand why people think it is
Please answer this question in all honesty- HOW FAMILIAR ARE YOU WITH THE REPERTOIRE OF POPULAR SONGS THAT ARE KNOWN AS “STANDARDS.” in other words, do you have a knowledge, appreciation and passion for popular songs written BEFORE THE ROCK ‘N’ ROLL ERA? If I were to sit down at a piano and plunk out the melodies of songs of musical theater from the 1920s thru 1960s would you be able to recognize most of them IMMEDIATELY? If your answer to this question is no, and you are being honest, this is the primary reason you do not like jazz. Jazz utilizes this repertoire. You can talk about improvisation and technical proficiency all you want. Jazz requires knowledge of the music that is being performed.
@@rockintetster Thanks for the response. Yeah, I've read someone saying something similar. I lack the knowledge therefore appreciation of the genre and will leave it at that.
I’m a classical musician. People hate classical music for all the same reasons - times ten.
I fully disagree that people have smaller attention spans now. Much of swing music is incredibly simple.
@ROOTSCONTRA ah, thats why its better to dig all music, theres cool songs within all genres.
I fully agree that they do. Look on youtube for example, the most trending videos that aren't among us, minecraft logan paul are 8 to 30 second videos. And look at vine from all those years, which blew up. Tiktok, 15 second videos. A few of my favorite youtubers have admitted that most people stop the video before even halfway in, vsauce, heck, people were complaining about this PODCAST containing too much TALKING. It's the top comment
> Much of swing music is incredibly simple.
Too simple for the musically schooled, and too much of a niche cult experience for the rest of us.
A lesser and thinner attention span is a fact. A matter of study among psychologists and a generational problem.
And there are real consequences to it.
Deny it as much as you want, but you can’t bend reality. It is happening.
You should give Jazz a chance. Honestly, I can understand some criticism but not all this
hate. Jazz like all the art music forms is not for everyone (thanks God). I personally like any kind of music that is authentic, Jazz included. And you don’t need a PhD in music to appreciate it. Just take a breath and fuckin listen. I mean...you can dislike Jazz, no problem, but what about other form of music that involve careful listening? Many people can’t stay concentrated on anything...
Good podcast. I see a lot of angry jazz haters in the comments proving their points correct.
There are definitely certain flavors of jazz that i hate, but...thats just as a listener. When i am attempting to play jazz i am on cloud nine. I think if we had a machine that could extract all influence of jazz from all modern music, film, improvisation...it would be a hellscape and people would beg to have it back again. But where did jazz begin? In the chords of Debussy? Carlo Gesualdo? On a ballophone somewhere in Africa?
I think it began when an increasingly connected world brought together all the influences you mentioned
Music like every art form has to convey emotions...Happiness, sadness, nostalgia, fear, power, lust, anger etc... When you have no talent to compose something that makes the masses of laymen feel emotions, but are very good with music theory and finger speed, you play theoretically complex cacophony and call it "jazz".
Holy shit this is the best comment on youtube 👌
Are you autistic? Oh, nvm. The only song you've ever heard is giant steps. Carry on.
@@cjgreen4331 Yeah because everyone who isn't autistic listens to jazz. If that were even remotely true jazz "musicians" would be stars... And not pop musicians
@@varunkamal91 I never said that, you're making assumptions just like on your comment. You're dumb for your lack of a real argument. "When you have no talent,"
"No emotions," "Cacophony." This is said by someone who got roasted by a jazz musician and is taking out his anger.
Please listen to Blue in Green by Miles Davis and come back and tell me how he wasn’t showing emotions
I believe what sitar maestro ravi shankar said once "I like melodic jazz not cerebral jazz'.
Maybe people who say they hate jazz just haven't listened to it enough to find a style that they like? I love jazz music but mostly more instrumental smooth jazz I don't really like vocal or big band kind of jazz
I think a lot of people don't like jazz (or some of its subgenres) because it became aesthetically linked to a kind of "party time" older people used to have. Something that "used to be cool" but it's not anymore. This was a barrier for me at first, but jazz fusion helped me overcome it (funk is still considered fun I guess). But if you present it in a nice context, they get it.
One time I went on vacation with some friends. We rented this very old house in the countryside, no internet, no tv, etc. We had some magic mushrooms, and everybody was lying down around the fire, just chilling and enjoying the trip. I was the only one with some music downloaded on my phone, so I blasted Herbie's Headhunters on the mfs. Everybody was amazed. They couldn't stop talking about how far that music goes and comes back to the starting point. They still ask me for recommendations to this date. People who never cared about instrumental music.
I really believe that's not about being dumb, but commercial music has developed in a way to serve as a soundtrack. You really don't have to pay a lot of attention to it, it's just there on the background. And if you listen to jazz without attention, it can be a really shitty soundtrack, frankly. It's a shame.
Very interesting piece of self-criticism. Interesting arguments you've come up with so that I can now counter-attack any jazz hater! ;-)
what's the name of the first song??
"Emotion in Motion" by Peter Martin. You can listen to the whole shebang right here: open.spotify.com/album/2JGW2LrkEQxXHrzldmXs4K
I like jazz I don't listen to it all the time but I don't hate it. I listen to it often enough though. I just want to understand why people hate it. I find jazz extremely unique. I tend to like slow jazz but still. I love all music from classical and jazz to rock and rap. I've been told time and time again by people I know that music that's just instruments is it music but they are sadly wrong and extremely ignorant. I'd say more emotion goes in the music when it's just the instruments.
what is the name of the opening song?
anon805 That’s pretty ignorant
Emotion In Motion by Peter Martin if you were still wondering 😂
I love Jazz and I love rock. For completely different reasons.
Me too; I Iove to listen to rock, and I love not listening to Jazz
@@michaelbennett8981 your loss
@@googlenazicompany5935 because songs with words
Then you mix them and get the original jazz fusion (harder edged 70s fusion)
The problem is people don't know how diversed Jazz is and all of it's sub genres. They think"Smooth Jazz"is all Jazz when Jazz has as much subgenres as Rock.
When it comes to art, any art, if it has to be explained, if you have to be "educated" to appreciate it, the art has fundamentally failed; and is thus, objectively "bad". It's like a comedian, having to explain to his audience why they should find a joke funny; at this point, no one will ever be on his side and you know for a fact, the joke is not funny.
Jazz isn't the only complicated music; many people are turned off by jazz by the undeserved smug elitism of jazz artists. Yet, no one, not one single person ever taught me Bach was great, I knew that the first time I heard his music. I didn't have to take a music theory class on poly rhythms to realize; dude, this mushuggah stuff sounds kick ass. I don't have to know ANYTHING, AT ALL, about painting to realize, Rembrandt was one hell of a painter.
Jazz is the most boring, monotonous, stoic form of music. This is why it's elevator music, it sparks NO emotional response, which makes it useful to provide bland ambience. Tolerable, back ground noise is all Jazz is good for. Back ground noise, that no one pays attention to; else they'd turn the channel.
Personally I agree that there is some monotonous jazz out there. However, I think you're hardly scratching the surface of jazz, and not digging into the genre deep enough to be able to determine whether or not that it actually is boring. If you want something that is completely out of the ordinary and exciting, listen to Coltrane's "A Love Supreme", Art Blakey's "A Night in Tunisia", and if you want something more modern, Herbie Hancock's "Head Hunters". All of these albums are riveting, and these were some of the albums that really defined jazz as a whole. I can name many more, but here's a starter kit.
- Somebody that has never listened to more than 3 jazz songs
If you don't understand a joke that a comedian made, it isn't necessarily his fault. It might be that you don't have any knowledge of the topic he's talking about. For example, if I make a joke about an Italian politician and you don't laugh, it might be because you don't know a lot about Italian politics. That doesn't necessarily mean that the joke is bad, it means that you don't have the tools to understand it. Saying that jazz is objectively garbage is just ignorant, also considering that millions of people love to listen to it. And I could say the same things you say about jazz for Bach: I know lots of people who find it boring (not me, I like Bach). I could say that Bach would be great elevator music and I would have a big amount of people supporting my idea, but that doesn't mean that what I'm saying makes any sense. I think what you're missing is respect; you have the right to not like jazz, but saying that it is objectively bad is disrespectful. I would never say that Schoenberg is bad, even if I don't like it at all; I just don't have the tools to understand it.
@@stefanomorbidelli8878 That's a good perspective you put, but it isn't worth the time. People literally only read what they want to on the internet, if it doesn't support the opinion they copied from someone else, then it isn't good. I do like your argument though; if someone's never been on the internet before, they wouldnt find a meme funny. So is it unfunny because they have to be "educated" on the matter? According to this guy, yes.
If you think jazz is emotionless, you just don’t have enough experience listening to it or at all. You’re just dead wrong bro, and some art does require greater knowledge or understanding of some new context to appreciate it. Sorry but not all arts appeal is plainly to be understood at face value, I think that’s a cheap way of looking at it. Like Bach, sure when you listen to it, you will think it’s great, but that greatness is further exposed when you understand the theory and context behind it. Same with jazz.
funny how the same reasons people hate jazz is the same reasons most people love it.
Jazz is all about swing. Swing is a tension. Tension is operating force in all great music. Until a person *feels* what swing is about, deep in their bones, they won’t understand what makes jazz so pleasurable.
And it sucks!
Yes! So many people are too focused on “oh look I’m playing so many complicated notes complicated harmonies look at this 13trh chord...and they got no swing. What really got me into jazz is the swing! Just like in Classical music that I major in, so many people play technically perfect, but greatest players are the ones that really sing and really convey emotion and intensity in the music.
Jazz isn’t just swing, it’s also bossa nova/Latin jazz
Alan true, swing is good in jazz but there is so much more that is good
100% *this* .
I love you guys
Hence the lack of structured pieces.
It's like an unironic 'Jazz Club' skit. _Niiiice_ *Grrreat* _Niice_
James Morrison on one of his albums plays all the instruments in the band except drums,
PROTIP: listen to jazz fusion. It is jazz, but newer. It was made in the 70’s, so its still old. Sounds better honestly.and bossa nova. Thats Brazilian chill jazz
I'd add an 8th reason. Like the criticism of Mozart's music in the movie Amadeus: "Too many notes!"
Good jazz speaks for itself. Whatever has to be explained is just not it.
To me, it is just the first one, it is not that it sounds difficult at all, it is just that there is too much dissonance and it just feels like, as you said, they're playing the bad notes on purpose. Too few dissonances and it (might) feel boring, too many dissonances and it (might) be overwhelming. It just breaks down to where in that range is your threshold. So I don't really think that for any means, not liking jazz makes people musically dumber. Like many other things, it is an acquired taste.
I've always said that acquired taste means liking something that tastes bad. Beer, caviar, etc. I've seriously tried but it's all over the place, a bit over the top and just something about it strikes my ear wrong.
Acquired taste is something that's just bad, but you get used to it over time. Doesn't stop it from being bad, though.
@@camthesaxman3387 "bad" is relative in this case.
they do play bad notes on purpose, they think it makes them sound clever, when in reality they sound like pretentious wankers.
Too much dissonance?....you don't know anything about that genre....more education is needed..
Geesh! Just can't get thru this whole thing. Feel like I need a shower. Jazz nerds are not the ones to listen to on why jazz is hated by people who hate jazz.
If people didn’t understand baseball, they would hate it too. But popular culture brings baseball to people from a young age. In contrast, people have to seek out jazz.
Very good representation. What's the music feautured in the beggining and end?
Mahmoud Harmel
Emotion In Motion - Peter Martin
ua-cam.com/video/QJM-6wFpY3k/v-deo.html
Thank you that's kind
Yep that song is why I hate jazz...just awful.
This made me hate jazz more
The music in itself, i don't have much of a problem with.
My biggest problem is, Socially, jazz is always treated like the hot new girl in town. it's annoying to the point I escape the conversation: Do you play jazzzz… the jazzzz.. wow jazzijaz... oh just shut up.
99% of the people I've met in my life who talk about our play jazz "even if they memorized a lot of chords" are stupid musically as a form of art.
You need talent for jazz...it's not for everybody....I've seen a lot of people who can't play a simple line and improvise on it and yet, they know every theory about the music
Jazz music is largely highbrow for most people and is the sort of music you’d listen to while drinking a fine, expensive cocktail and having fancy hors d’œuvres. You don’t get that from metal, rock or hip-hop fans, they’re more working class
JEEEEEAZZZZZZZZZ. Not my tempo!
for me, Jazz is not a supreme genre the you need to like all of it. Is a music genre like every other else. I like to think jazz is like food. we taste it, feel the instruments, the notes. And like food, you like some, and don't like others.
You need a degree of talent to play jazz and in some cases, you need to be gifted.....no theory in the world would ever make you become a jazz musician
1. Almost never a melody
2. Complicated just for the sake of being complicated.
3. Improvisational, almost never hear the same song twice.
4. Dissonance, multiple musicians playing without regard to what the others are playing.
5. The songs have to be explained to be enjoyed.
6. The songs are created for the enjoyment of the performer and not the audience.
7. Self righteous snobs who look down their nose and make a comment like "most people are too dumb to understand it."
well to me jazz is a real big genre. .Can you be a jazz musician without improvising???
Nope....the greatest classical pianist would die 10 times before he could improvise a simple Jazz tune.....that's not his language
My OPINION : con-"FUSION" is the jazz-musicians angst as the musician cries out for other disturbed minds who want to sort out their mutual morass; and, syncopate strange arpeggios. Jazz is "MY TRUTH"; and, if someone else doesn't get it, they're left out. Many musicians have interpersonal issues with expressing themselves but can use music wonderfully, to bridge the gap and bring you to tears or joy or action; BUT, Jazz, (at the confused end of the range), is the refuge of the dissonant cognition,
I think the root of the problem is people's unfamiliarity with how it works structurally, at least it was in my case. Jazz not only uses unfamiliar chord progressions, but it makes those progressions hard to hear because of the quiet, uncompressed acoustic bass (assuming people not into jazz aren't listening with headphones) vs. the loud, easy to hear bass of popular, non-classical music. On top of that, it doesn't use the typical verse/chorus form. There was a point in my life when I hated it too, but it literally took one song to change that, when I realized: Oh, there's a form, Oh, there's a melody over this progression that repeats, Oh, those fast seemingly random string of notes is this guy soloing over that progression, and other structural things. It's just all about knowing how it works I feel. Same thing happened with salsa music, I thought it was loud and annoying and in a language I didn't understand. But sure enough, I listened to enough to figure out the basic form. I still don't understand Spanish, but now I dig Latin music. Is dissonance why people hate jazz? Maybe. But I'm willing to bet there are people out there who "hate" jazz and love Stravinsky. Is it the fact that it's instrumental/acoustic? Meh. People love film music, and stuff like River Flows In You. Anyways, just my 2c, and this is turning into a novel...
The "progression" is impossible for me to pick out unless I watch the notes being keyed or fretted. ( I dont have perfect pitch) Jazz always strikes me as music for jazz musicians, not the audience.
@@nycholaus You don't need perfect pitch to pick out progressions just relative pitch
I’ve never seen a more cringe comment section in my entire life. yikes , this video must have pulled in people off the street and not regular open studio watchers.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣....wow, I never knew so many dopes hated Jazz and they have no idea about the language at all.....
All the reasons given are non-musical - acoustic instruments, sounds complex, nerdy, pieces too long, all dudes, and so on. These are reasons given by people who basically aren't into music. They like it if it tells them things they want to hear, but as for doing a little work to understand... most "music lovers" aren't up to it. Most people DON'T really like music. They like a nice beat to dance to, a strong rhythm to work to, a .ittle muzak to shop to, and so on, but anything that challenges them they don't care for.
Musical reasons.
Not immersive to non-musicians
Often atonal
Anharmonic
Swing swings, other jazz does not
No "groove" to untrained ears
I strongly believe that a good song sounds good to more or less anyone.
Man, what jazz have you been been listening to that lacks harmony and is atonal
@@wesphillips7336 free jazz, postbop, actually most jazz from the 60s onwards is that way
Jazz music gives me anxiety
Listen to Miles Davis- Blue in Green, it’s really nice :)
You know when a little kid sits at a piano and just starts going up and down the keyboard hitting random notes.
I've seen jazz concerts in front of 1000 people where I swear it sounds no different.
Your comment make my day man.
yea, even classical music is predictable, you can hear a melody, jazz is not. its just random notes
Omar, go to school for jazz and then tell me it’s just random notes lol
Fodsaks, how though…. I would get this comment if you went to say… a Schoenberg concert, but for jazz… how the hell do you watch a concert and come away with this impression
@Google Sucks Ass probably free jazz stuff, or way outside postbop, etc.
Been exposed to a lot of jazz as a function of being friends with someone who listens to a lot of jazz. At first I thought it just sounded as this annoying intricate plinking noise, after many sessions of curated exposition I now think it sounds as this annoying intricate plinking noise.
Regarding reason #2: then why so many people like Yiruma's music?
You think people don't like jazz, check out _vintage_ jazz - swing, dixieland and allied styles.
It's not harmonically rigorous enough for jazz fans or schooled musicians, some of whom don't consider it jazz at all but a sort of pre-jazz. It's often meant to dance to, but only in ways that are strenuous and hard to learn. And its cool factor is zero, minus. The only exception is when a track ends up in a video game - and _only that one track._
Mostly, it reminds people of its main audience, which is old, white, stodgy, and often British. DGMW, I love the Brits, but they are by and large a nation of nerds. Their culture tolerates the historic(al) and the arcane.
There is a small vintage jazz fan/player community in the US (I have been both a player and a fan). But it never spreads beyond the largest urban areas. Even there it's a freak interest - centered on people who are nerds to _other_ nerds.
Mostly, the rhythms/beats/pulse are what bothers folks about jazz...the constant ride pulse doesn't rock.
There's no repetition to it is my main gripe with it. It transforms itself too much. No pattern, no order. Very difficult to play of course but it's just a little too busy for me to actually enjoy.
Great idea putting the mic just in the middle of the face
lol
Too long? How about Grateful Dead! And sometimes when I listen to Jerry Garcia I’m hearing a rock take on bebop.
So if Jazz is for people who know it, why being surprise if people who don't know it don't like it?
Your assumption is wrong. "People" don't hate jazz. Jazz is only hated by certain people in the United States and maybe, for unrelated reasons, in areas of the world that have political or cultural reasons to hate jazz. An objective reason for hating jazz therefore does not exist. It must be something unique to the United States. And if one thinks about it, the reason is obvious. Hatred of jazz in the United States is merely a reaction to the post Vietnam War era and a reaction to mainstream media using jazz to deliver inauthentic messages that are seen as selling out to the Establishment. Go and watch old episodes of Dragnet. The background music often is jazz. But Dragnet is seen as problematic today because of its advocacy of law enforcement use against marijuana and perceived whitewashing of the police. Similarly listen to the music of the Charlie Brown specials. It's jazz. If you watch especially TV from the late 60s and 70s, observe how jazz is being used to try and program the view to react to scenes in a certain way. And jazz as background music has continued to be associated in particular with police shows on American mainstream TV.
But why would people hate jazz because of those things? Most people seem to remember all those programs fondly
@@wesphillips7336 Dragnet has aged VERY badly for certain demographics, as have certain police procedurals. In addition, jazz does have the disadvantage of sometimes seeming to be mocking, which is especially enraging if someone is already predisposed to not like it.
@@johnphamlore8073 if I understand correctly, you’re saying the mass use of jazz angered people who are predisposed to irritability? Many shows and stuff are still beloved and things like cowboy bepop which use jazz are loved specifically for the jazz element
well KEITH Jarrett dynamic with his gestures.
The underlying reason that jazz is not popular is that it is not marketed like other things. Proof of that is the mediocre music that gets massive airplay . Anything mass marketed to the masses has a chance of being popular . The masses I would assume have not heard of Drummer Louis Bellson. Let alone know he was the father of the two bass drums. It is all marketing .
08:18, well jazz was founded by black Americans so it’s very much diverse. Even the Japanese have co-opted the music as did the Polish.