Great video and good to see the valves demonstrated for real. A commentary would have been helpful and much more useful than the pointless music. What are the details of the valves and where are they available from? Thanks
Hi. I appreciate the trouble you went to, but. I would be interested to see how long it takes for the oil to circulate in both instances if the motor (drill) is shut off after the flow then restarted in a couple of days like the real life use of your motorcycle. You do not completely drain your oil lines and fill them with air every time you go for a ride. I could be wrong but I think the residual oil in the line after the check valve and pump may give you a different outcome.
I have just fitted the ball valve type with an ignition cutout. This is just beneath the tank and over a period of weeks the entire hose to the pump will drain into the sump. Or will it if there is no head of oil pushing it past the pump? Either way it is probably best to turn the valve on some time before starting the bike to allow the oil to refill the line and prime the pump.
That sprung valve you used looked homemade. The one used by most people is made by Bri Tie. They have sold thousands with no problems. Why did you not use that one? Also the comments about priming the pump are correct. I have the Bri Tie ones on 6 bikes they work fine. On one of them I have done over 90,000 miles with pressure easily up to 60PSI and no wet sumping.
Simply buy a sump plate with a drain plug fitted, if the bike has been stood for a while and wet sumped just drain the oil into a clean tray and pour back into your oil tank, it doesn't get any easier than that. I have a pal with a Norton who paid the ultimate price for fitting a wet sump valve , the valve only has to go wrong once.
Dick, if you know anything about this pump which is used on Norton motorcycles, you must know that they let oil seep past and flood the crankcase. The spring loaded valve would stop the flow of oil when the engine is stopped, then all the oil in the lines and in the pump would seep past the pump and put it in the same condition as it is at the start of the test. On the next startup, the pump would NOT be primed and no oil would flow to the engine causing lots of damage.
Dick casey is right, you have to eliminate air from the feed lines during fitting, the test would have to include this, velocettes, used these type of valves without issue.
Isn't this a bit of a dumb test ? Won't be suction from the pump if you run it in an air lock. So check valve won't work.The point of the valve is to stop oil decemding in the feed when the engine isn't running. Old bike pumps often let oil slowly seep through to wet sump, giving starting and smoking problems. But this test does at least highlight the point of a) fit the check valve when there is oil in the engine and oil tank...use clamps or fit with speed. b) when starting up watch for oil return to the tank. Best to do this every time you start up if the bikes been parked up for a while.
During prolonged storage, the oil in pump and upstream of it will be lost, pump will be struggling to create suction effect on start up. These type of pumps do not make much suction at all really and are meant to have constant supply of gravity feed oil. So the video does show this issue of these spring valves. Plus the restricted flow around the ball even when spring valve is fully open. His manual valve with ign cut out solved these problems.
I think you are missing the point Dick. The video shows how easy and foolproof the ball valve is and how tricky and ridiculous the spring ball valve is. The ball valve provides a guaranteed closed path when closed & a guaranteed flow path to the pump when opened. The spring ball valve would always be in the path to challenge the supply flow to the pump. The fact that the pump has to be primed and all air removed shows how temperamental the spring ball valve is. Talk to any engineer and they would never place a restriction on the suction side of a pump. I bet the suppliers of the ball valve do not have to caution their customers like the spring ball suppliers do. I also have to wonder how much more painful doing an oil change is with the spring ball valve in place. It just sounds like the spring ball check is the wrong device for use in an oil line.
yup being shovelhead owner I've dealt with this for years and I'm always coming up with great ideas on fixing problems. I did in fact put a ball valve on my Harley and turned out to be a very bad idea. I forgot to turn it on or off, not even sure WTF I did but I took off for a ride and noticed a trail of oil behind me. Stopped and ended up in a puddle of oil which covered my rear tire. In a panic I decided to pull in to a parking lot. When I took off I instantly did a 360, not by choice, can't believe I didn't hit the ground. Just by luck a pile of paper towels had blown out of someones vehicle or thrown out but I took them and cleaned the tire off. Then I walked to a local hardware store and bought a few quarts of oil so I could get back home where I proceeded to remove the ball valve. Screw that idea!! I'm too forgetful for that one. I then proceeded to buy a new oil pump thinking it would help, well it didn't, I was sure my old one was fine but I tried anyway. It's a thing, I learned to live with it. I do have a hose running under my frame and I stick a bottle on the end of it when I start my Harley to catch the oil. Best solution I have found. Yeah, the ball valve almost caused me to hit the ground really hard. People at that intersection must have thought I was nuts. In case you want to try this yourself I used some 3/8" copper tubing with compression fittings and a ball valve which you can get in most hardware stores. I was going to modify it with a switch and a red light to remind me to switch the valve on but screw it.
Feked website in the UK and Holland Norton Works in the USA have similar designs. This one in the video was made by a guy in Western Canada called "IronJohn" and could be purchased from Motoparts Inc in Alberta Canada.
big assumption here is riders will remember to turn OFF the oil valve after each ride. gas on gas off, oil on oil off. not everyone in this crowd, many of my bros, can remember to zip up their boots. juz saying,,,
Not a valid test. This is an extremely misleading video. Virtually every fluid pump must be properly primed to operate to full capacity, a fact well known in industry and by most mechanics. Established vendors of ball check valves destined for use in this motorcycle application routinely caution the oil lines must be fully flooded up to the ball, and from the ball thru the pump.
Thanks for explaining how to determine, before starting the engine, that the pump is primed, so that you will only see the benefits of the restriction caused by the spring check valve.
Dick Casey is correct. A gear pump must be fully primed before it will pump. In the demo, there is always air in the pump inlet line, and until all the air is removed, it will not pump.
@@casvanderwoude And a bike sat for weeks/months with the spring valve upstream of the pump will in fact have little to no oil left up against/into the pump. So it is valid. Plus the second issue his solution addresses if the restricted flow past the open spring/ball valve.
Great video and good to see the valves demonstrated for real. A commentary would have been helpful and much more useful than the pointless music. What are the details of the valves and where are they available from? Thanks
Hi. I appreciate the trouble you went to, but. I would be interested to see how long it takes for the oil to circulate in both instances if the motor (drill) is shut off after the flow then restarted in a couple of days like the real life use of your motorcycle. You do not completely drain your oil lines and fill them with air every time you go for a ride. I could be wrong but I think the residual oil in the line after the check valve and pump may give you a different outcome.
Thanks for taking the time to do this!
great demo, I'd never trust a ball valve type anyway.
I have just fitted the ball valve type with an ignition cutout. This is just beneath the tank and over a period of weeks the entire hose to the pump will drain into the sump. Or will it if there is no head of oil pushing it past the pump? Either way it is probably best to turn the valve on some time before starting the bike to allow the oil to refill the line and prime the pump.
That sprung valve you used looked homemade. The one used by most people is made by Bri Tie. They have sold thousands with no problems. Why did you not use that one? Also the comments about priming the pump are correct. I have the Bri Tie ones on 6 bikes they work fine. On one of them I have done over 90,000 miles with pressure easily up to 60PSI and no wet sumping.
Simply buy a sump plate with a drain plug fitted, if the bike has been stood for a while and wet sumped just drain the oil into a clean tray and pour back into your oil tank, it doesn't get any easier than that. I have a pal with a Norton who paid the ultimate price for fitting a wet sump valve , the valve only has to go wrong once.
I would like to know the manufacturer of the ball valve if possible, looks like a great solution presented extremely well. thanks!!
Dick, if you know anything about this pump which is used on Norton motorcycles, you must know that they let oil seep past and flood the crankcase. The spring loaded valve would stop the flow of oil when the engine is stopped, then all the oil in the lines and in the pump would seep past the pump and put it in the same condition as it is at the start of the test. On the next startup, the pump would NOT be primed and no oil would flow to the engine causing lots of damage.
Exactly... This is why you don't use the spring loaded valve. Did you actually watch his video????
Dick casey is right, you have to eliminate air from the feed lines during fitting, the test would have to include this, velocettes, used these type of valves without issue.
This test says only that it's not pumping when air is in the pump ,prime it, will show better how it works.
Where can these be bought?
Ditto
Isn't this a bit of a dumb test ? Won't be suction from the pump if you run it in an air lock. So check valve won't work.The point of the valve is to stop oil decemding in the feed when the engine isn't running. Old bike pumps often let oil slowly seep through to wet sump, giving starting and smoking problems.
But this test does at least highlight the point of a) fit the check valve when there is oil in the engine and oil tank...use clamps or fit with speed. b) when starting up watch for oil return to the tank. Best to do this every time you start up if the bikes been parked up for a while.
During prolonged storage, the oil in pump and upstream of it will be lost, pump will be struggling to create suction effect on start up. These type of pumps do not make much suction at all really and are meant to have constant supply of gravity feed oil. So the video does show this issue of these spring valves. Plus the restricted flow around the ball even when spring valve is fully open. His manual valve with ign cut out solved these problems.
I think you are missing the point Dick. The video shows how easy and foolproof the ball valve is and how tricky and ridiculous the spring ball valve is. The ball valve provides a guaranteed closed path when closed & a guaranteed flow path to the pump when opened. The spring ball valve would always be in the path to challenge the supply flow to the pump. The fact that the pump has to be primed and all air removed shows how temperamental the spring ball valve is. Talk to any engineer and they would never place a restriction on the suction side of a pump. I bet the suppliers of the ball valve do not have to caution their customers like the spring ball suppliers do. I also have to wonder how much more painful doing an oil change is with the spring ball valve in place. It just sounds like the spring ball check is the wrong device for use in an oil line.
nice job..thanks so much
yup being shovelhead owner I've dealt with this for years and I'm always coming up with great ideas on fixing problems. I did in fact put a ball valve on my Harley and turned out to be a very bad idea. I forgot to turn it on or off, not even sure WTF I did but I took off for a ride and noticed a trail of oil behind me. Stopped and ended up in a puddle of oil which covered my rear tire. In a panic I decided to pull in to a parking lot. When I took off I instantly did a 360, not by choice, can't believe I didn't hit the ground. Just by luck a pile of paper towels had blown out of someones vehicle or thrown out but I took them and cleaned the tire off. Then I walked to a local hardware store and bought a few quarts of oil so I could get back home where I proceeded to remove the ball valve. Screw that idea!! I'm too forgetful for that one. I then proceeded to buy a new oil pump thinking it would help, well it didn't, I was sure my old one was fine but I tried anyway. It's a thing, I learned to live with it. I do have a hose running under my frame and I stick a bottle on the end of it when I start my Harley to catch the oil. Best solution I have found. Yeah, the ball valve almost caused me to hit the ground really hard. People at that intersection must have thought I was nuts. In case you want to try this yourself I used some 3/8" copper tubing with compression fittings and a ball valve which you can get in most hardware stores. I was going to modify it with a switch and a red light to remind me to switch the valve on but screw it.
so where do we get these valves.. why no info? .. cannot find anything on google for that second valve, they dont exist on the internet.
Feked website in the UK and Holland Norton Works in the USA have similar designs. This one in the video was made by a guy in Western Canada called "IronJohn" and could be purchased from Motoparts Inc in Alberta Canada.
big assumption here is riders will remember to turn OFF the oil valve after each ride. gas on gas off, oil on oil off. not everyone in this crowd, many of my bros, can remember to zip up their boots.
juz saying,,,
Not a valid test. This is an extremely misleading video. Virtually every fluid pump must be properly primed to operate to full capacity, a fact well known in industry and by most mechanics. Established vendors of ball check valves destined for use in this motorcycle application routinely caution the oil lines must be fully flooded up to the ball, and from the ball thru the pump.
Thanks for explaining how to determine, before starting the engine, that the pump is primed, so that you will only see the benefits of the restriction caused by the spring check valve.
Dick Casey is correct. A gear pump must be fully primed before it will pump. In the demo, there is always air in the pump inlet line, and until all the air is removed, it will not pump.
@@casvanderwoude And a bike sat for weeks/months with the spring valve upstream of the pump will in fact have little to no oil left up against/into the pump. So it is valid. Plus the second issue his solution addresses if the restricted flow past the open spring/ball valve.
I have a better idea, use the bike regularly !