The fact that this is a lowball is insane 😭. Also in the manga itself it states after the namek saga that the ssj multiplier became so big that it was uncalcuable
It never stated that. However, the storytelling perspective shows us Goku & The Z fighters all Greatly surpass SSJ Goku & Final Form Frieza on Namek by a huge margin. Each new arc, Goku & The Z fighters get exponentially more powerful!!!
He also said he felt it spoiled the results of the fight. I hate that people think it's because power levels were meaningless because of Death Battle citing a fan wiki.
@@isabelpage5950 I mean they kinda are. The namek saga was all about proving how power levels are kinda bogus because of how in flux the protagonists power levels are
I disagree with how you scaled the destruction sphere. Yes. Frieza WAS at 50% or 60M, but that doesn't mean the attack was anywhere near that. Here's why 1) Attacks much MUCH weaker (Roshi's Kamehameha) can destroy the earths moon, and anyone with a powerful level of 10,000 or higher can comfortably destroy MOST planets' cores (causing its destruction- like Frieza). Frieza didn't have to use anywhere near 60M to destroy the core- he could've used 180K to do the exact same feat (Saiyan Arc Great Ape Vegeta's power). But theres more 2) Frieza's first destruction sphere that was used against Planet Vegeta- was from 1 Form Frieza- someone with a power level of no more than 530,000. This sphere didn't just destroy the planet's core- it completely eradicated the planet. Even if you want to scale Planet Namek to being 10× bigger than Planet Vegeta which is 10× biggest than earth- that doesn't make sense for Frieza's 530K attack to explode a planet- and his 60M attack to fail at even fully destroying the internals of Planet Namek. Your scaling is wrong because you made the assumption that Friezas attack was 60M when he even said himself he was massively holding back in his attack (yes holding back IN HIS 50% Form). That attack is likely only 2×-10× stronger than the sphere used on Planet Vegeta. Thats nowhere near 60M. You got this wrong. The sphere launched at Trunks WAS dozens of times stronger because Frieza IS slightly stronger yes- but mostly because frieza held back massively on that attack that hit Namek. The attack that hit trunks was likely around 300M+, (530K × 10 = 5.3M × 60 [aka 5 dozen] = 318M ~ Around 300M). This seems far more reasonable wouldnt you say?
I agree, with ur concept, but not with the increase. Why? The core value wws not on the emphasis of Mecha Frieza being a Monster compared to his Final Form Self, Tbh Mecha Frieza is 130 Million at best. And 126 Million at worst. What supports this? Future Trunks is equal to Super Saiyan Goku on Namek.. 150 Million. Goku has grown in power, even thru that 1 year on Yardrat. On the low end SSJ Goku is 300 Million. However, seeing how he was able to dog walk SSJ F.T. with minimal effort. It is very likely Goku was 5x - 7x Stronger than F.T. An estimated power level at 720 Million for SSJ Yardrat Goku would be far more accurate. Why? As far as power level power scaling. Goku & The Z fighters have not surpassed the power level hierarchy of The One Hundred Millions Place value yet. Goku & Co will eventually cross over into The Billions, Ten Billion & One Hundred Billions place value. The death of Mecha Frieza marks the end of that level of power. Goku, Piccolo & Vegeta most likely cross over into the realm of the Billions after 3 years of training in prep for The Androids. The Earthling Z fighters & Gohan, are the ones who will be playin catch up. Meaning, they’ll still have power levels in the One Millions, Ten Millions & Hundred Millions place value. Yamcha with a power level @ 18 Million.. makes sense why Yamcha, my personal favorite, would be confused for Goku (3 million on Namek) mistaken by Androids 19 & 20 (Dr. Gero.) Goku’s not anywhere near as Strong as Brolku made him out to be. But he doesn’t have to be. Especially not in the Cell Arc. Why? Captain Ginyu - 120,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000. Capt Ginyu is 0.001% in comparison. What could Capt. Ginyu do to Frieza. And in turn, what could F.F.F. do to Perfect Cell @ 225 Billion? Absolutely nothin. Frieza Arc; Goku - 3,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000. Cell Arc, Cell Games; Super Saiyan Goku - 3,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000,000. Perfect Cell - 225,000,000,000. Super Perfect Cell - 260,000,000,000. 7 Cell Jrs - 75,000,000,000 each. Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 3,300,000,000. Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 165,000,000,000. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan - 330,000,000,000. Captain Ginyu is Strong during his time, yet was an ant compared to Frieza. Final Form Frieza, was a Monster, is now the ant in comparison literally to every form of Cell. And what more for Super Perfect Cell compared to Fat Buu.
Personally I don’t see Goku being that Strong. But I definitely agree with your power scaling concept. Such as Goku & Gohan being relative to each other as Mastered SSJ’s even though Gohan is slighty Stronger. The Frieza Arc; Chaotzu - 9,100. Yamcha - 72,000. Krillin - 85,000. Tienshinhan - 175,000. Gohan - 750,000. Piccolo - 800,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000. Goku - 3,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x10] - 30,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x20] - 60,000,000. Goku[Spirit Bomb] - 72,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 90,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 100,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 120,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000. Cell Arc; The Cell Games; 7 Cell Jrs - 75,000,000,000. Perfect Cell - 225,000,000,000. Super Perfect Cell - 260,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 3,300,000,000 Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 165,000,000,000. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan 330,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 3,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000,000. Super Saiyan Vegeta - 60,000,000,000. Future Trunks - 1,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Future Trunks - 50,000,000,000. Piccolo - 24,000,000,000. Tienshinhan - 7,000,000,000. Krillin - 5,000,000,000. Yamcha - 4,000,000,000. Perfect Cell 225 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than Goku. SSJ Goku 150 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than The Cell Jrs. The Cell Jrs @ 75 Billion are 1/3 Perfect Cell. Goku, Gohan & Cell are all in the same realm of power (One Hundred Billions Place Value) Goku 150 Bill can defeat Gohan 165 Bill, in their Mastered Super Saiyan State. Evidence to support this.. 1) Goku trained Gohan in The Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Gohan never beat Goku in sparring & not in a fight during their training. This can only mean, despite Gohan being Stronger than his father, Gohan cannot beat Goku in the Mastered Super Saiyan State. 2) Perfect Cell fought SSJ Goku & SSJ Teen Gohan. After feelin & witnessing Gohan being Stronger, Cell still wanted to fight Goku.. This means Goku & Gohan, are not only relative to each other. Them being so close in power level, Goku has the advantage. His Martial Arts Skills, Technique & Battle Experience make him The Superior fighter, especially to Gohan. This is the storytelling narrative literally tellin us, despite Teen Gohan’s slight edge in power level, Goku would still defeat Gohan. Why? Bcuz Cell wants to fight the Superior Fighter (Goku) Cell does not want fight the inferior one (Gohan.) This is somethin all the fans missed. Vegeta @ 1.2 Billion & SSJ Vegeta @ 60 Billion, is far too weak to kill any of the 7 Cell Jrs. Bcuz their power levels are in the Ten Billions place value, the distance in their power levels are far too great. It’s ironic, the small difference between Goku & Gohan is insignificant, meanwhile the difference between Vegeta & The Cell Jrs is significant. This is a power scaling feat. Different realms & levels of power, have different strengths and weaknesses. It’s very ironic, for Vegeta to be so close, yet so far away. Future Trunks is right under Vegeta, yet he too, is far too weak to defeat The Cell Jrs. Piccolo also has a power level in the Ten Billions place value, yet it doesn’t matter. Why? He is far too weak. The Earthling Z fighters are Immensely Powerful. They all have power levels in The Ones Billion Place Value. Unfortunately they are the weakest, and are also incapable of defeating any of The 7 Cell Jrs. Even so, it is interesting to note, all The Earthling Z fighters have Power Levels higher than all The Saiyans Base Form. Evidence to support this is in both DBZ Manga & DBZ KAI Anime.. 1) When Mastered SSJ Goku is depleted in power, his power level reverts back to The Max power level of his base form, 3 Billion. 2) SSJ Goku is so weak, Yamcha & Tienshinhan must defend him. So he won’t be outright killed by The Cell Jrs. 3) This also is a power scaling feat, showcasing The Earthling Z fighters & Piccolo are relative to The Saiyans base forms. Ya see, the Saiyan can’t simply be OP, w/o The Power Levels make sense of Piccolo & The Earthling Z fighters being Superior & relative to The Saiyan’ base form. This too is a Power Scaling Feat far too many fans are unaware of or easily overlook. Base Form Goku 3 Million, Super Saiyan Goku 150 Million on Namek, would be an after thought, blinked out of existence in comparison to Base Form Goku 3 Billion, Super Saiyan Goku 150 Billion on Earth. What supports my power level & power scaling analysis? The Frieza Arc. Captain Ginyu @ 120,000 is considered very Strong. Yet, when compared to Final Form Frieza 120,000,000.. Capt. Ginyu’s power level 120,000 = 0.001% in comparison. I ask you, what is Final Form Frieza 120 Million, compared to Perfect Cell 225 Billion? Frieza becomes an Ant, far less insignificant than Capt. Ginyu compared to his power level. Take note, Goku & Co, from the Cell Arc, only continue to get Stronger. This Most Definitely Includes The Earthling Z fighters.. Tienshinhan, Yamcha & Krillin, whom are equal to or Stronger than Perfect Cell & Super Perfect Cell, by the end of The Buu Arc. Whereas by the beginning of The Buu Arc, they were only relative to The Cell Jrs.
Wait, wasn't Android Saga Trunks (who is around the same age as he was when he killed Mecha Freeza) stated to be above pre-Kami Piccolo? It's possible that the Z-Fighters weren't massively stronger than they were 3 years ago (I'd argue 10 times boost at most), unless Trunks did that insane thing from DBS where Saiyans constantly increase in power.
Android saga trunks is 3 years older than when he killed Mecha Frieza so it would be that trunks who probably trained a fuck ton that would be above piccolo and even then both piccolo and trunks did about the same be the androids
@@mrperfectcell5079 He didn't look much different. My guess is that he immediately returned to the past the moment he could. He shouldn't be too much further beyond what he was against Mecha Freeza.
@@mrperfectcell5079 His hair noticeably changed after a year in the RoSaT, so either he liked keeping his hair exactly as it was for 3 years, or he came back as soon as possible. Maybe Bulma was able to fuel the time machine extremely fast. It could be possible that he spent three more years in the future, but I dunno since my memory on this part is a little hazy.
@@InfernoCleric384 he actually cut his hair after he fought perfect cell to where it looked like it did before so he probably just got his hair cut throughout the years
Base Gohan post the time skip was actually just as strong as he was in the cell games, the difference is that grade 5 don't have access to his anger just like before, so only grade 5(or ssj2) is weaker, also Dabura made the comment after Gohan was healed which Gohan confirmed to be a power up(and still he was weaker than angered teen Gohan but regardless, I don't think you can use that statement to scale Gohan to piccolo), other than that, also if we use the statemwnt of Gohan(future)=Trunks, you can argue that Trunks is actually above the androids if you look at what happened in the fight with them(in the anime) Other than that, good video
No the statement you are referencing is talking about his latent power staying the same his actual physical body was stated by Vegeta to have gotten weaker which is back up by daizenshuu saying he’s weaker due to not being angry AND not training so it wasn’t just his lack of rage that made him weaker Future gohans scaling is a can of worms by itself I made an entire video on anime future Gohan and why he’s probably stronger than everyone up to android 16 so I’d just recommend you watch that video as Gohan is just blantantly stronger than trunks
@@mrperfectcell5079 daizenshuu 2 said that his Power grew no stronger and Is the Same as when he was a teen, also no, Gohan stated directly that he Is more powerful than he was before, Vegeta Is referencing his face off against Cell, that's why he said he is weaker Alr I Will Watch it
@@simeon8814 i know what daizenshuu says and im saying it would make more sense if it was talking about his latent power especially since the same guide says he got weaker due to a lack of rage and not training also gohan could be talking about how he got his power back cus he just got healed
@@mrperfectcell5079 well, I mean, both what you said and what I said support both interpretations so idk I mean, Gohan was dying, saiyans get zenkais if they are dying and get restored or if they die and turn back to life, so I think he got a zenkai
@@simeon8814 zenkais were stated by toriyama to have become small after the namek saga also theres a difference between recovering from near death and just regaining stamina
1:20 This is anime only btw. (The Daizenshuu 5 name is lit. Daizenshuu 05 TV Animation, Part 1 then 2) Well, that is unless you wanna to say the Earth is way stronger than Namek and so Saiyan Saga Vegeta > Post-Namek Frieza it sound weird to me.
@@mrperfectcell5079 Ok good for you then. The Vegeta Frieza stuff is just joke, pointing out that in the manga Frieza hit the Earth with the supernova and it just made a nuke-like explosion while Vegeta would have destroyed the Earth.
Freeza's Supernova is filler, so dubious that it even applies to the manga. The Daizenshuu covers anime only material, but I would not use that to say the movies have a bearing on continuity, for example.
Yeah, and the anime itself says that specific supernova was 10 times stronger than the Namek destroying blast instead. Tens and Dozens can be confusing in Japanese especially and could easily have just been a shorthand for "many times stronger " rather than specifically 20-100 times. Especially in Dragon Ball since fusions have been described like that and it's pretty clear fusion would be way above 100x even to the biggest downplayer. You could always rationalize it as Freeza not putting anywhere near full effort on Namek's destruction since he had every intention of still fighting Goku despite being somewhere between 50-70%.
@@joshuazeppeli5199 The blast that destroyed Namek was not even his full 50% either. He held back when throwing it, and Goku noted he could have just destroyed the planet outright without waiting for the core, but he changed his mind on wanting to kill Goku in that manner. So ten times that would not be even that much greater than his 100% (beyond the Supernova not even being canon).
@@Arcadia_warlic Yeah, but trying to calculate it would be borderline impossible since 10,000 is the ballpark for planet destruction. Obviously, Freeza didn't hold back quite that much. I'm personally fine if Freeza got way stronger with his robot parts since it allows Future Gohan to at least somewhat powerful for the time. It's definitely less of a leap than scaling Piccolo to not-heart virus SSJ Goku (so SSJ Vegeta) or Gohan/Base Goku to Future Trunks rather than Freeza. I think the biggest leap is saying Piccolo got about 5x from Kami when 18 and Vegeta were still pretty close as long as Vegeta maintained full power. I think it lines up better with the anime since Vegeta pretty much loses the ability to even damage 18 when a tiny bit weakened. Id disagree with the whole Base Cell games Gohan > Buu Saga Piccolo bit on principle, but there's really nothing stopping it. I'm not sure about Base Goku and Gohan at the cell games messing up form 2 Cell, but i don't thinks scaling to Piccolos the way to get there
@@joshuazeppeli5199 According to Beers in Battle of Gods, none of the Saiyans surpass Freeza in base until after Super Saiyan God, though that does seem to have just been retroactive continuity.
@@joshuazeppeli5199 I am using the anime in the video so this mecha Frieza stuff is canon to the anime and Idrc if tie tens or dozens as it barely changes the end result also we definitely know that Frieza was at 50% vs namek cus the attack that destroyed Namek blitzed a suppressed also the bog statement was in revenge to a suppressed base goku cus there is way too much just suggesting that base goku surpassed Frieza
I have a bunch of major problems with this video. Frieza held back on his attack on Namek, to the point it failed to even destroy the planet, so it should be vastly weaker than his 50%. It was arguably weaker than his supernova on planet Vegeta, and that was in his first form. King Kai in the anime directly said it was 10x the attack used on Namek, and source material trumps guides. And you can't say the guide was in reference to the manga since Frieza never uses a supernova in the manga. Frieza wasn't sure if he became strong enough to beat namek ssj Goku and el manga legendario said Frieza with his upgrades failed to surpass a ssj. Mecha Frieza's max power should be at best namek saga ssj level. Arguing base Gohan surpassed ssj Trunks is crazy. Even ignoring Beerus confirming post Buu saga base Goku being weaker than Frieza, Tien and Krillin showed up just like Gohan and Tien still said how crazy it was Trunks went down even though he was the guy who beat Frieza. There was no indication Trunks even improved since the last time he showed up, yet he was near ssj Goku and Vegeta's level, though clearly inferior. Goku in the android saga also said he was excited and nervous to fight someone stronger than Frieza. This makes no sense if Frieza was hundreds-thousands of times weaker than everyone. Not to mention 17 at 1/2 power was around future Gohan level per the manga and future Gohan is pretty much flat out stated to be inferior to yardrat Goku... This puts 17 at like 2x ssj yardrat Goku at max. I don't think base Goku and Gohan surpassed Piccolo either. Dabura had no idea what any of their powers were. He thought base Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta would all lose to PuiPui. Basically all he sensed was the saiyans were hiding more power than Piccolo. Beyond that he had no clue how strong they were.
yakon who’s above shin, base buu arc Gohan being above piccolo, etc I don’t really care if the humans were above Frieza also you could just interpret what tien is saying as him just explaining how trunks was once viewed in a very high regard and has now become fodder rather than what he did being impressive to Tien also trunks has been potentially training for 3 years since he beat Mecha Frieza so he is likely much stronger I don’t think Goku was really worried that cell was above Frieza exactly i think he was more so worried about this new guy just being the strongest dude he has faced cus realistically Frieza shouldn’t scare him especially due to him being stronger than a guy who one shot him and his trunks timeline self bodied mecha Frieza and Goku has gotten even stronger since then you could also say it’s similar to Frieza hyping up he can destroy a planet to toppo like someone’s dbz characters just hype up things that aren’t too impressive It’s never stated that 17 used 1/2 of his power against Gohan and hat he said was he didn’t even use half against Gohan last time they fought and we don’t even know if Gohan was able to do anything against 17 regardless I am mainly using the anime’s version of events for this video and in that version future Gohan is just blantantly scaling above the androids individually who are confirmed only a tad weaker then their current counterparts so that scaling just doesn’t work Dabura may have not had an accurate hodge on the Saiyans power because they were suppressed but that if he’s still sensing they are hiding more power than piccolo that still implies they are stronger than him as Dabura was underestimating them not overestimating them so they would just help them being above piccolo if anything and this is supported by Vegeta thinking he can win the tenkaichi Budokai in base Goku being above yakon, etc
@@mrperfectcell5079 I disagree with Yakon being above Shin. Shin was able to restrain ssj2 Gohan and save him from a blast from Majin Buu. Shin just didn't want any ki to go to Buu and underestimated the saiyans himself, so he wanted them to team up on everyone. Not to mention the majin fighters could not be sensed so Shin did not know how strong they actually were, and nobody could sense Shin and knew how strong he was. If we go off the Super manga, Shin survived a ki blast from Dabura and then held him down. All of his feats point to him being vastly above Yakon. It's true 17 said less than 1/2, but that likely means it was close to 1/2, as if he was only using like 10% he would have just said so. So less than 1/2 is probably like 25-49%, and Gohan thought he could beat that, and he is inferior to Yardrat Goku. This should at least put Yardrat close to the 50% range even if he is below it still. When Vegeta said he could win the tournament there is no evidence he knew Piccolo was in it. Also that statement was kind of made in reference to the other saiyans, saying if they all were in base he still has the edge. If you want to use the anime, which you have been using, the copy of Piccolo inside Buu was giving ssj Vegeta trouble. This is important since the copies were stated to have the power of the real ting. If you think ssj is over a 1,000x multiplier like you do, there is no way Piccolo does anything to end of Buu saga ssj Vegeta. Also if we are talking about Vegeta's hype talk, he also said he could beat Jiren in base during the tournament of power, and then proceeded to get folded. IMO Beerus saying base Goku can't beat Frieza is the most clear author intent statement we have. I can understand not wanting to use that, especially since it's not a part of the original manga, but I still think you made the jumps way too big. Piccolo and Vegeta after training for a year and a half after the Frieza saga were still fodder to a Frieza massively weaker than full power Namek Frieza as stated by Gohan. Training for another 3 years for the androids isn't going to magically make their power increase a thousand fold when a year and a half of training only made them a couple times stronger at most.
@@weeaboo-warrior we don’t know how shins paralysis works for all we know he can paralyze people stronger than him infact in the dbs manga he actually paralyzes dabura while he himself is on deaths door also if he thought that fighting yakon alone would allowing to go to buu that would still imply he had the speed and power to damage any of them but his wording doesn’t even imply he’s talking about energy going to buu cus he said they “MUST” strike together to win so all of this would just suggest shins paralysis can work on people stronger than him also piccolo says in the anime he can sense shin so they probably can gauge his power Piccolo like said multiple times right in front of Vegeta that he was going to enter the tournament so I feel like that’s a bit dishonest and the statement would only apply to the saiyans as he does imply also that he would win the whole thing especially in the herms translation and the piccolo copy in the anime has like inconsistent power since a sbc canon from it knocked out gotenks and could damage the same Vegeta that was beating up gotenks not even mentioning that Vegeta himself wasn’t even at 1% of his power inside buu as stated in daizenshuu 10 also Vegeta didn’t actually think he could beat jiren and was more so saying that to hype himself up which jiren himself actually calls him out for so it’s not the same as with here as Vegeta was genuinely confident in his abilities Using author intent is kind of a fallacious argument because you have no idea what the writers were intending with that scene as it was never stated what their intent was for all we know they could have said that to show that beerus has no idea how good goku really was and it’s just made very apparent that beerus was just wrong and while vegeta and piccolo were still below Frieza it is important to note that goku did think it was somewhat conceivable that they could have beaten Frieza so they might actually be approaching ssj level or wat least somewhat approaching on that tier even then and it’s kind of headcanon to say they wouldn’t get that much stronger in 3 years while they have an huge amount of motivation to train those 3 years in comparison to before where they were basically living in a time of piece I mean with motivation most of the Z fighters got between 10-20x stronger in like 11 months so I don’t find it that far fetched especially now that they have better training partners I don’t see how not using half means that he was close to using half I think he was just trying to tell Gohan how suppressed he was I don’t think he has to give an exact amount like in the universe 6 tournament who’s says Vegeta was not even at 10% vs hit when we know in reality he wasn’t even at 2% cus blue is 50x god so they don’t always need to give an exact quantification but this doesn’t even matter anyway since this video is primarily based don the anime so that scaling wouldn’t even apply as future Gohan is blantantly portrayed in a much higher regard
@@mrperfectcell5079 Yeah, Shin can definitely paralyze people physically stronger than himself, but it just shows how powerful his Kai powers are. He was able to stop a ki blast from Buu that was completely overpowering ssj2 Gohan and got up after Buu's assault. I don't see Yakon replicating either of that. Shin was worried for the saiyans and said they have to attack together after he saw Yakon almost tag Goku. He did not want to take any chances. Piccolo sensing Shin's power works in Shin's favor imo as Piccolo hyped up Shin rather than saying "he is fodder weaker than your base forms." When did Piccolo say he was entering the tournament in front of Vegeta? They didn't even meet until at the tournament which is after Vegeta already made the statement. Unless there are some filler scenes I'm not remembering... but in the manga no such thing exists. Beerus said base Goku couldn't beat Frieza. After going ssj Beerus said Frieza was the best Goku could do. Before Goku went ssj3 Beerus said he could sense Goku was holding back power and he can't hide his power from him. All evidence points to Beerus' statement being legit. Goku asked if it was Vegeta or Piccolo because he did not anticipate a super saiyan from the future, so they are the only other options, and Frieza was stated to be massively suppressed so maybe Goku thought they got lucky and killed Frieza before he went full power. I could see them getting 10s, maybe even 100s of times stronger in 3 years, but once we start going into the thousands that's really pushing it. It's unprecedented compared to other training periods. Are you talking about the Super manga with the 10% SSB Vegeta thing? If you are, first off, there is no confirmation that SSB is 50x SSG. Even if it was, this is perfectly explained by the existence of mastered SSB. So mastered SSB would be 50x SSG, and non mastered SSB with ki leaking out would be 5-10x SSG like the line in the manga suggests.
@@mrperfectcell5079 Also btw one translation has 17 say he used exactly half his power. v14.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/img/tab_14/00/38/04/me955161/vol_33_chapter_trunks_the_story_a_lone_warrior/11-o.jpg I'm trying to figure out which is the literal translation.
0:05 Are they wrong? Powerscaling is shit and headcanon only. If you start being toxic because of some powerscaling headcanon you have you ain't worth my respect.
Ah I see so you are an anti powerscaler yeah no powerscaling is not headcanon usually people will provide evidence when they say goku is universal or cell>dabura people don’t just go off their opinion they use actual arguments backed up by things in the manga, anime, and official databooks
@@mrperfectcell5079 No, powerscaling is headcanon in the sense that If you start saying stuff like "Dragon Ball is 5D and Multiverse level++" you need to chill out and watch the show for what it is. A battle shonen made for kids. (I had this whole dicussion yesterday with some guy about Goku speed just to show him how the Super Hero and Battle of God movies showed raindrop falling at normal speed and he was angry at me) Obviously I don't care how much you thinks X characters is strong or what they can do because Toriyama obviously didn't write the story with feats or powerscaling in mind. Hope you understand.
@@Narrativerse it’s not headcanon if people have a basis for it like this just sounds like you coping Also dragon ball is not made for kids and I hope you know the super hero visual definitely wasn’t meant to be taken seriously as it was just to give the scene more visual flair I don’t think it can actually be used to scale gokus speed cus realistically goku should be faster than like rain drops even in early db he is moving too fast for people to perceive Also you literally cannot prove what toriyama had in mind when he was writing the series like I have seen antipowerscalers do this shit all the time it’s just baseless headcanon for all we know powerscaling could very well be toriyamas intent and regardless it is still is a thing that exists whether toriyama intended it or not and the same applies to feats because all powerscaling is is just comparing one characters power to other characters which happens all the time in dragon ball examples being saibamen being stated equal to raditz, goku stated stronger than frieza, power levels as concept we’re stated by toriyama to show who is stronger than who so dragon ball blantantly has and does actively use powerscaling like you are just making shit up because you don’t like the concept
@@NarrativerseJust say that you have no argument instead of blatantly showing that you would rather not read something that would take you less than two minutes to read
There's no way that Freeza was at 1.44 billion as a cyborg, lol. Come on now... that makes zero sense. Considering when Goku went to Planet Yardrat to better control his Super Saiyan power and learn instant transmission (while also stating he only had A LITTLE time to train). And with Trunks being able to best Freeza so EASILY, there's no way that they would be in the billions. It just makes no sense at all. Cyborg Freeza was probably only 145 million at best and all your other power levels are completely insane.
So your argument is to ignore all the evidence, even though Mecha Frieza directly says that the attack he launched at Trunks is 10 times stronger than the one he used on Namek
@@yeikelamores6085 Did he say something like that in the manga? Because I sure don't recall that. What's also said in the anime compared to the manga can definitely be irrelevant. Almost every realistic power level list I've seen barely EVER has Freeza being at least 200 milion as a cyborg.
@@Travis371 It’s just a x10 boost. Gokou went from 90,000 to 3,000,000 in Base from getting a Zenkai, and that’s like a x40 boost. I think 2 years between the end of Namek to beginning of Android Saga is reasonable for Gokou to get that strong. Still, there’s actual statements that Mr.Perfect Cell said that proves that Freeza got at least over x10 stronger.
They are people who don't know scale, they use Headcanon and ignore the evidence, for example,They love to put 17 and 18 with only 2x the power of Namek Goku, which doesn't make any sense,They also love to ignore the increase in SJS grades
Mecha Freeza being stronger than he was on Namek: 1:04 Mecha Freeza - 1,440,000,000 Future Trunks: 1:47 Son Gokou: 2:05 Base Gokou & (Future) Trunks - 36,000,000 & S.S.Grade.1 - 1,800,000,000 Son Gohan being stronger than S.S.Grade.1 (Future) Trunks: 2:17 Base Gohan (trained to fight the Androids) - 1,800,000,000 Son Gokou power being x50 greater than Gohan’s: 2:55 S.S.Grade.1 Gokou - 90,000,000,000 Piccolo Jr being a S.S tier: 3:25 Piccolo Jr - 90,0000,000,000 Piccolo Jr fused with Kami: 3:37 Piccolo Jr fused with Kami - 450,000,000,000 Cell’s power eclipse Piccolo Jr’s: 4:15 2nd Form Cell - 1,800,000,000,000 Piccolo Jr surpassing 2nd Form Cell: 4:55 Piccolo Jr - 1,800,000,000,000 Base Gokou & Gohan are stronger than him, lol: 5:14 Gokou & Gohan are relative: 5:56 S.S.Grade.4 Gokou & Gohan - 1,800,000,000,000,000
@@mrperfectcell5079 Or what? You're going to whine harder? I told you, quality is subjective. If I show you my favorite music you might not like them the same way I do. I don't like your video and your reasoning, this is why it's bad. UA-cam have a dislikes fonction for that reason, there is no "shit-talking" here.
@@Narrativerse no i am just gonna delte your comments if your gonna be a duck like how are you gonna talk shit and not pull up you are a loser lol I love how you say you didnt like my reasoning yet you failed to disprove me lol you suck
I don’t get it? There’s no confirmed power levels past Namek Saga, or at least a consistent one. I don’t believe (Z) Gogeta being at 2,500,000,000 in V-Jump I think. Too low in my opinion as there’s more characters in the Cell Saga that had massive jumps in power.
Personally I don’t see Goku being that Strong. But I definitely agree with your power scaling concept. Such as Goku & Gohan being relative to each other as Mastered SSJ’s even though Gohan is slighty Stronger. The Frieza Arc; Chaotzu - 9,100. Yamcha - 72,000. Krillin - 85,000. Tienshinhan - 175,000. Gohan - 750,000. Piccolo - 800,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000. Goku - 3,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x10] - 30,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x20] - 60,000,000. Goku[Spirit Bomb] - 72,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 90,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 100,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 120,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000. Cell Arc; The Cell Games; 7 Cell Jrs - 75,000,000,000. Perfect Cell - 225,000,000,000. Super Perfect Cell - 260,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 3,300,000,000 Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 165,000,000,000. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan 330,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 3,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000,000. Super Saiyan Vegeta - 60,000,000,000. Future Trunks - 1,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Future Trunks - 50,000,000,000. Piccolo - 24,000,000,000. Tienshinhan - 7,000,000,000. Krillin - 5,000,000,000. Yamcha - 4,000,000,000. Perfect Cell 225 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than Goku. SSJ Goku 150 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than The Cell Jrs. The Cell Jrs @ 75 Billion are 1/3 Perfect Cell. Goku, Gohan & Cell are all in the same realm of power (One Hundred Billions Place Value) Goku 150 Bill can defeat Gohan 165 Bill, in their Mastered Super Saiyan State. Evidence to support this.. 1) Goku trained Gohan in The Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Gohan never reported he beat Goku in a fight. This means, despite being Stronger, that marginal at best. 2) Perfect Cell fought SSJ Goku & SSJ Teen Gohan. After feelin & witnessing Gohan being Stronger, Cell still wanted to fight Goku.. This means Goku & Gohan, are not only relative to each other. Them being so close in power level, Goku has the advantage. His Martial Arts Skills, Technique & Battle Experience make him The Superior fighter, especially to Gohan. This is the storytelling narrative literally tellin us, despite Teen Gohan’s slight edge in power level, Goku would still defeat Gohan. This is somethin all the fans missed. Vegeta @ 1.2 Billion & SSJ Vegeta @ 60 Billion, is far too weak to kill any of the 7 Cell Jrs. Bcuz their power levels are in the Ten Billions place value, the distance in their power levels are far too great. It’s ironic, the small difference between Goku & Gohan is insignificant, meanwhile the difference between Vegeta & The Cell Jrs is significant. This is a power scaling feat. Different realms & levels of power, have different strengths and weaknesses. It’s very ironic, for Vegera to be so close, yet so far away. Future Trunks is right under Vegeta, yet he too, is far too weak to defeat The Cell Jrs. Piccolo also has a power level in the Ten Billions place value, yet it doesn’t matter. Why? He is far too weak. The Earthling Z fighters are Immensely Powerful. They all have power levels in The Ones Billion Place Value. Unfortunately they are the weakest, and are also incapable of defeating any of The 7 Cell Jrs. Even so, it is interesting to note, all The Earthling Z fighters have Power Levels higher than all The Saiyans Base Form. Evidence to support this is in both DBZ Manga & DBZ KAI Anime.. 1) When Mastered SSJ Goku is depleted in power, his power level reverts back to The Max power level of his base form, 3 Billion. 2) SSJ Goku is so weak, Yamcha & Tienshinhan must defend him. So he won’t be outright killed by The Cell Jrs. 3) This also is a power scaling feat, showcasing The Earthling Z fighters & Piccolo are relative to The Saiyans base forms. Ya see, the Saiyan can’t simply be OP, w/o The Power Levels make sense of Piccolo & The Earthling Z fighters being Superior & relative to The Saiyan’ base form. This too is a Power Scaling Feat far too many fans are unaware of or easily overlook.
Yeah I mean, Toriyama himself even has said that power levels eventually become incalculable. The numbers will get ridiculous at a certain point.
The fact that this is a lowball is insane 😭.
Also in the manga itself it states after the namek saga that the ssj multiplier became so big that it was uncalcuable
It never stated that. However, the storytelling perspective shows us Goku & The Z fighters all Greatly surpass SSJ Goku & Final Form Frieza on Namek by a huge margin. Each new arc, Goku & The Z fighters get exponentially more powerful!!!
No wonder why Akira Toriyama cut power levels after the namek saga lol
He also said he felt it spoiled the results of the fight.
I hate that people think it's because power levels were meaningless because of Death Battle citing a fan wiki.
Ya they kinda became irreverent
@@isabelpage5950 I mean they kinda are. The namek saga was all about proving how power levels are kinda bogus because of how in flux the protagonists power levels are
@@pickedceasar1216 Toriyama himself disagreed and said he discontinued them because they spoiled fights.
I disagree with how you scaled the destruction sphere.
Yes. Frieza WAS at 50% or 60M, but that doesn't mean the attack was anywhere near that.
Here's why
1) Attacks much MUCH weaker (Roshi's Kamehameha) can destroy the earths moon, and anyone with a powerful level of 10,000 or higher can comfortably destroy MOST planets' cores (causing its destruction- like Frieza). Frieza didn't have to use anywhere near 60M to destroy the core- he could've used 180K to do the exact same feat (Saiyan Arc Great Ape Vegeta's power).
But theres more
2) Frieza's first destruction sphere that was used against Planet Vegeta- was from 1 Form Frieza- someone with a power level of no more than 530,000.
This sphere didn't just destroy the planet's core- it completely eradicated the planet.
Even if you want to scale Planet Namek to being 10× bigger than Planet Vegeta which is 10× biggest than earth- that doesn't make sense for Frieza's 530K attack to explode a planet- and his 60M attack to fail at even fully destroying the internals of Planet Namek.
Your scaling is wrong because you made the assumption that Friezas attack was 60M when he even said himself he was massively holding back in his attack (yes holding back IN HIS 50% Form).
That attack is likely only 2×-10× stronger than the sphere used on Planet Vegeta. Thats nowhere near 60M.
You got this wrong.
The sphere launched at Trunks WAS dozens of times stronger because Frieza IS slightly stronger yes- but mostly because frieza held back massively on that attack that hit Namek.
The attack that hit trunks was likely around 300M+, (530K × 10 = 5.3M × 60 [aka 5 dozen] = 318M ~ Around 300M).
This seems far more reasonable wouldnt you say?
I agree, with ur concept, but not with the increase. Why? The core value wws not on the emphasis of Mecha Frieza being a Monster compared to his Final Form Self,
Tbh Mecha Frieza is 130 Million at best. And 126 Million at worst. What supports this? Future Trunks is equal to Super Saiyan Goku on Namek.. 150 Million.
Goku has grown in power, even thru that 1 year on Yardrat. On the low end SSJ Goku is 300 Million. However, seeing how he was able to dog walk SSJ F.T. with minimal effort. It is very likely Goku was 5x - 7x Stronger than F.T.
An estimated power level at 720 Million for SSJ Yardrat Goku would be far more accurate. Why? As far as power level power scaling. Goku & The Z fighters have not surpassed the power level hierarchy of The One Hundred Millions Place value yet.
Goku & Co will eventually cross over into The Billions, Ten Billion & One Hundred Billions place value.
The death of Mecha Frieza marks the end of that level of power. Goku, Piccolo & Vegeta most likely cross over into the realm of the Billions after 3 years of training in prep for The Androids.
The Earthling Z fighters & Gohan, are the ones who will be playin catch up. Meaning, they’ll still have power levels in the One Millions, Ten Millions & Hundred Millions place value.
Yamcha with a power level @ 18 Million.. makes sense why Yamcha, my personal favorite, would be confused for Goku (3 million on Namek) mistaken by Androids 19 & 20 (Dr. Gero.)
Goku’s not anywhere near as Strong as Brolku made him out to be. But he doesn’t have to be. Especially not in the Cell Arc. Why? Captain Ginyu - 120,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000. Capt Ginyu is 0.001% in comparison. What could Capt. Ginyu do to Frieza. And in turn, what could F.F.F. do to Perfect Cell @ 225 Billion? Absolutely nothin. Frieza Arc; Goku - 3,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000. Cell Arc, Cell Games; Super Saiyan Goku - 3,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000,000. Perfect Cell - 225,000,000,000. Super Perfect Cell - 260,000,000,000. 7 Cell Jrs - 75,000,000,000 each. Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 3,300,000,000. Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 165,000,000,000. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan - 330,000,000,000.
Captain Ginyu is Strong during his time, yet was an ant compared to Frieza. Final Form Frieza, was a Monster, is now the ant in comparison literally to every form of Cell. And what more for Super Perfect Cell compared to Fat Buu.
Nappy: Vegeta, what does the scouter?
Vegeta: It says woof, lol.
Nappa: Ha!
Son Gokou: Whoa, it’s a dog?
Ofc Cell would make a video about Goku’s power during the Cell Arc after fighting Goku and winning during the Cell Arc?!
This is surprisingly good, although you could go higher
Great video! Do one for the Buu Saga.
This.
Awesome video bro 👍
Frieza's attack on nameknis not his 50% power. He says held back too much and El legendario says he never surpassed Super Saiyan.
Great Video, Would love to see a sequal to this
Personally I don’t see Goku being that Strong. But I definitely agree with your power scaling concept. Such as Goku & Gohan being relative to each other as Mastered SSJ’s even though Gohan is slighty Stronger.
The Frieza Arc; Chaotzu - 9,100. Yamcha - 72,000. Krillin - 85,000. Tienshinhan - 175,000. Gohan - 750,000. Piccolo - 800,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000. Goku - 3,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x10] - 30,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x20] - 60,000,000. Goku[Spirit Bomb] - 72,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 90,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 100,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 120,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000.
Cell Arc; The Cell Games; 7 Cell Jrs - 75,000,000,000. Perfect Cell - 225,000,000,000. Super Perfect Cell - 260,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 3,300,000,000 Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 165,000,000,000. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan 330,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 3,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000,000. Super Saiyan Vegeta - 60,000,000,000. Future Trunks - 1,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Future Trunks - 50,000,000,000. Piccolo - 24,000,000,000. Tienshinhan - 7,000,000,000. Krillin - 5,000,000,000. Yamcha - 4,000,000,000.
Perfect Cell 225 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than Goku. SSJ Goku 150 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than The Cell Jrs. The Cell Jrs @ 75 Billion are 1/3 Perfect Cell. Goku, Gohan & Cell are all in the same realm of power (One Hundred Billions Place Value) Goku 150 Bill can defeat Gohan 165 Bill, in their Mastered Super Saiyan State. Evidence to support this.. 1) Goku trained Gohan in The Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Gohan never beat Goku in sparring & not in a fight during their training. This can only mean, despite Gohan being Stronger than his father, Gohan cannot beat Goku in the Mastered Super Saiyan State. 2) Perfect Cell fought SSJ Goku & SSJ Teen Gohan. After feelin & witnessing Gohan being Stronger, Cell still wanted to fight Goku.. This means Goku & Gohan, are not only relative to each other. Them being so close in power level, Goku has the advantage. His Martial Arts Skills, Technique & Battle Experience make him The Superior fighter, especially to Gohan. This is the storytelling narrative literally tellin us, despite Teen Gohan’s slight edge in power level, Goku would still defeat Gohan. Why? Bcuz Cell wants to fight the Superior Fighter (Goku) Cell does not want fight the inferior one (Gohan.) This is somethin all the fans missed.
Vegeta @ 1.2 Billion & SSJ Vegeta @ 60 Billion, is far too weak to kill any of the 7 Cell Jrs. Bcuz their power levels are in the Ten Billions place value, the distance in their power levels are far too great. It’s ironic, the small difference between Goku & Gohan is insignificant, meanwhile the difference between Vegeta & The Cell Jrs is significant. This is a power scaling feat. Different realms & levels of power, have different strengths and weaknesses. It’s very ironic, for Vegeta to be so close, yet so far away. Future Trunks is right under Vegeta, yet he too, is far too weak to defeat The Cell Jrs.
Piccolo also has a power level in the Ten Billions place value, yet it doesn’t matter. Why? He is far too weak. The Earthling Z fighters are Immensely Powerful. They all have power levels in The Ones Billion Place Value. Unfortunately they are the weakest, and are also incapable of defeating any of The 7 Cell Jrs. Even so, it is interesting to note, all The Earthling Z fighters have Power Levels higher than all The Saiyans Base Form. Evidence to support this is in both DBZ Manga & DBZ KAI Anime.. 1) When Mastered SSJ Goku is depleted in power, his power level reverts back to The Max power level of his base form, 3 Billion. 2) SSJ Goku is so weak, Yamcha & Tienshinhan must defend him. So he won’t be outright killed by The Cell Jrs. 3) This also is a power scaling feat, showcasing The Earthling Z fighters & Piccolo are relative to The Saiyans base forms. Ya see, the Saiyan can’t simply be OP, w/o The Power Levels make sense of Piccolo & The Earthling Z fighters being Superior & relative to The Saiyan’ base form. This too is a Power Scaling Feat far too many fans are unaware of or easily overlook.
Base Form Goku 3 Million, Super Saiyan Goku 150 Million on Namek, would be an after thought, blinked out of existence in comparison to Base Form Goku 3 Billion, Super Saiyan Goku 150 Billion on Earth.
What supports my power level & power scaling analysis? The Frieza Arc. Captain Ginyu @ 120,000 is considered very Strong. Yet, when compared to Final Form Frieza 120,000,000.. Capt. Ginyu’s power level 120,000 = 0.001% in comparison. I ask you, what is Final Form Frieza 120 Million, compared to Perfect Cell 225 Billion? Frieza becomes an Ant, far less insignificant than Capt. Ginyu compared to his power level.
Take note, Goku & Co, from the Cell Arc, only continue to get Stronger. This Most Definitely Includes The Earthling Z fighters.. Tienshinhan, Yamcha & Krillin, whom are equal to or Stronger than Perfect Cell & Super Perfect Cell, by the end of The Buu Arc. Whereas by the beginning of The Buu Arc, they were only relative to The Cell Jrs.
Should do this for the buu saga if it’s possible
Wait, wasn't Android Saga Trunks (who is around the same age as he was when he killed Mecha Freeza) stated to be above pre-Kami Piccolo? It's possible that the Z-Fighters weren't massively stronger than they were 3 years ago (I'd argue 10 times boost at most), unless Trunks did that insane thing from DBS where Saiyans constantly increase in power.
Android saga trunks is 3 years older than when he killed Mecha Frieza so it would be that trunks who probably trained a fuck ton that would be above piccolo and even then both piccolo and trunks did about the same be the androids
@@mrperfectcell5079 He didn't look much different. My guess is that he immediately returned to the past the moment he could. He shouldn't be too much further beyond what he was against Mecha Freeza.
@@InfernoCleric384 what makes you say he wasnt any different? also trunks says he will have to sruvive for another 3 years
@@mrperfectcell5079 His hair noticeably changed after a year in the RoSaT, so either he liked keeping his hair exactly as it was for 3 years, or he came back as soon as possible. Maybe Bulma was able to fuel the time machine extremely fast. It could be possible that he spent three more years in the future, but I dunno since my memory on this part is a little hazy.
@@InfernoCleric384 he actually cut his hair after he fought perfect cell to where it looked like it did before so he probably just got his hair cut throughout the years
What about goku power level in the buu saga
Imagine ultra instinct Goku in the granola arc! Lol probably in the octillions! Lol
Ur everywhere
@@marcosmos7478 yh or even higher
Nice video cell
You should do the Buu Saga or Super next. I wonder just how high Super Saiyan God is 💀
Low billions
0:47 smoke detector🧐
Get Lonk to debate Jiren vs Broly.
Base Gohan post the time skip was actually just as strong as he was in the cell games, the difference is that grade 5 don't have access to his anger just like before, so only grade 5(or ssj2) is weaker, also Dabura made the comment after Gohan was healed which Gohan confirmed to be a power up(and still he was weaker than angered teen Gohan but regardless, I don't think you can use that statement to scale Gohan to piccolo), other than that, also if we use the statemwnt of Gohan(future)=Trunks, you can argue that Trunks is actually above the androids if you look at what happened in the fight with them(in the anime)
Other than that, good video
No the statement you are referencing is talking about his latent power staying the same his actual physical body was stated by Vegeta to have gotten weaker which is back up by daizenshuu saying he’s weaker due to not being angry AND not training so it wasn’t just his lack of rage that made him weaker
Future gohans scaling is a can of worms by itself I made an entire video on anime future Gohan and why he’s probably stronger than everyone up to android 16 so I’d just recommend you watch that video as Gohan is just blantantly stronger than trunks
@@mrperfectcell5079 daizenshuu 2 said that his Power grew no stronger and Is the Same as when he was a teen, also no, Gohan stated directly that he Is more powerful than he was before, Vegeta Is referencing his face off against Cell, that's why he said he is weaker
Alr I Will Watch it
@@simeon8814 i know what daizenshuu says and im saying it would make more sense if it was talking about his latent power especially since the same guide says he got weaker due to a lack of rage and not training
also gohan could be talking about how he got his power back cus he just got healed
@@mrperfectcell5079 well, I mean, both what you said and what I said support both interpretations so idk
I mean, Gohan was dying, saiyans get zenkais if they are dying and get restored or if they die and turn back to life, so I think he got a zenkai
@@simeon8814 zenkais were stated by toriyama to have become small after the namek saga also theres a difference between recovering from near death and just regaining stamina
2.25 billion
1:20 This is anime only btw. (The Daizenshuu 5 name is lit.
Daizenshuu 05 TV Animation, Part 1 then 2)
Well, that is unless you wanna to say the Earth is way stronger than Namek and so Saiyan Saga Vegeta > Post-Namek Frieza it sound weird to me.
The video is based mainly on the anime so I don’t really care
Also how are you getting Vegeta>frieza??
@@mrperfectcell5079 Ok good for you then.
The Vegeta Frieza stuff is just joke, pointing out that in the manga Frieza hit the Earth with the supernova and it just made a nuke-like explosion while Vegeta would have destroyed the Earth.
@@Narrativerse the supernova would have destroyed earth it’s just that trunks stopped it before it did and this was stated by king cold
@@mrperfectcell5079 Like I said in the manga it hit the ground. (and I dont wanna argue or explain, just read the manga if you want or not)
Freeza's Supernova is filler, so dubious that it even applies to the manga. The Daizenshuu covers anime only material, but I would not use that to say the movies have a bearing on continuity, for example.
Yeah, and the anime itself says that specific supernova was 10 times stronger than the Namek destroying blast instead. Tens and Dozens can be confusing in Japanese especially and could easily have just been a shorthand for "many times stronger " rather than specifically 20-100 times. Especially in Dragon Ball since fusions have been described like that and it's pretty clear fusion would be way above 100x even to the biggest downplayer.
You could always rationalize it as Freeza not putting anywhere near full effort on Namek's destruction since he had every intention of still fighting Goku despite being somewhere between 50-70%.
@@joshuazeppeli5199 The blast that destroyed Namek was not even his full 50% either. He held back when throwing it, and Goku noted he could have just destroyed the planet outright without waiting for the core, but he changed his mind on wanting to kill Goku in that manner. So ten times that would not be even that much greater than his 100% (beyond the Supernova not even being canon).
@@Arcadia_warlic Yeah, but trying to calculate it would be borderline impossible since 10,000 is the ballpark for planet destruction. Obviously, Freeza didn't hold back quite that much. I'm personally fine if Freeza got way stronger with his robot parts since it allows Future Gohan to at least somewhat powerful for the time.
It's definitely less of a leap than scaling Piccolo to not-heart virus SSJ Goku (so SSJ Vegeta) or Gohan/Base Goku to Future Trunks rather than Freeza. I think the biggest leap is saying Piccolo got about 5x from Kami when 18 and Vegeta were still pretty close as long as Vegeta maintained full power. I think it lines up better with the anime since Vegeta pretty much loses the ability to even damage 18 when a tiny bit weakened.
Id disagree with the whole Base Cell games Gohan > Buu Saga Piccolo bit on principle, but there's really nothing stopping it. I'm not sure about Base Goku and Gohan at the cell games messing up form 2 Cell, but i don't thinks scaling to Piccolos the way to get there
@@joshuazeppeli5199 According to Beers in Battle of Gods, none of the Saiyans surpass Freeza in base until after Super Saiyan God, though that does seem to have just been retroactive continuity.
@@joshuazeppeli5199 I am using the anime in the video so this mecha Frieza stuff is canon to the anime and Idrc if tie tens or dozens as it barely changes the end result also we definitely know that Frieza was at 50% vs namek cus the attack that destroyed Namek blitzed a suppressed also the bog statement was in revenge to a suppressed base goku cus there is way too much just suggesting that base goku surpassed Frieza
Android saga humans>frieza,that inarguable
Bro what
cell games humans > frieza > beginning of android saga humans
I have a bunch of major problems with this video.
Frieza held back on his attack on Namek, to the point it failed to even destroy the planet, so it should be vastly weaker than his 50%. It was arguably weaker than his supernova on planet Vegeta, and that was in his first form. King Kai in the anime directly said it was 10x the attack used on Namek, and source material trumps guides. And you can't say the guide was in reference to the manga since Frieza never uses a supernova in the manga. Frieza wasn't sure if he became strong enough to beat namek ssj Goku and el manga legendario said Frieza with his upgrades failed to surpass a ssj. Mecha Frieza's max power should be at best namek saga ssj level.
Arguing base Gohan surpassed ssj Trunks is crazy. Even ignoring Beerus confirming post Buu saga base Goku being weaker than Frieza, Tien and Krillin showed up just like Gohan and Tien still said how crazy it was Trunks went down even though he was the guy who beat Frieza. There was no indication Trunks even improved since the last time he showed up, yet he was near ssj Goku and Vegeta's level, though clearly inferior. Goku in the android saga also said he was excited and nervous to fight someone stronger than Frieza. This makes no sense if Frieza was hundreds-thousands of times weaker than everyone. Not to mention 17 at 1/2 power was around future Gohan level per the manga and future Gohan is pretty much flat out stated to be inferior to yardrat Goku... This puts 17 at like 2x ssj yardrat Goku at max.
I don't think base Goku and Gohan surpassed Piccolo either. Dabura had no idea what any of their powers were. He thought base Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta would all lose to PuiPui. Basically all he sensed was the saiyans were hiding more power than Piccolo. Beyond that he had no clue how strong they were.
yakon who’s above shin, base buu arc Gohan being above piccolo, etc
I don’t really care if the humans were above Frieza also you could just interpret what tien is saying as him just explaining how trunks was once viewed in a very high regard and has now become fodder rather than what he did being impressive to Tien also trunks has been potentially training for 3 years since he beat Mecha Frieza so he is likely much stronger
I don’t think Goku was really worried that cell was above Frieza exactly i think he was more so worried about this new guy just being the strongest dude he has faced cus realistically Frieza shouldn’t scare him especially due to him being stronger than a guy who one shot him and his trunks timeline self bodied mecha Frieza and Goku has gotten even stronger since then you could also say it’s similar to Frieza hyping up he can destroy a planet to toppo like someone’s dbz characters just hype up things that aren’t too impressive
It’s never stated that 17 used 1/2 of his power against Gohan and hat he said was he didn’t even use half against Gohan last time they fought and we don’t even know if Gohan was able to do anything against 17 regardless I am mainly using the anime’s version of events for this video and in that version future Gohan is just blantantly scaling above the androids individually who are confirmed only a tad weaker then their current counterparts so that scaling just doesn’t work
Dabura may have not had an accurate hodge on the Saiyans power because they were suppressed but that if he’s still sensing they are hiding more power than piccolo that still implies they are stronger than him as Dabura was underestimating them not overestimating them so they would just help them being above piccolo if anything and this is supported by Vegeta thinking he can win the tenkaichi Budokai in base Goku being above yakon, etc
@@mrperfectcell5079 I disagree with Yakon being above Shin. Shin was able to restrain ssj2 Gohan and save him from a blast from Majin Buu. Shin just didn't want any ki to go to Buu and underestimated the saiyans himself, so he wanted them to team up on everyone. Not to mention the majin fighters could not be sensed so Shin did not know how strong they actually were, and nobody could sense Shin and knew how strong he was. If we go off the Super manga, Shin survived a ki blast from Dabura and then held him down. All of his feats point to him being vastly above Yakon.
It's true 17 said less than 1/2, but that likely means it was close to 1/2, as if he was only using like 10% he would have just said so. So less than 1/2 is probably like 25-49%, and Gohan thought he could beat that, and he is inferior to Yardrat Goku. This should at least put Yardrat close to the 50% range even if he is below it still.
When Vegeta said he could win the tournament there is no evidence he knew Piccolo was in it. Also that statement was kind of made in reference to the other saiyans, saying if they all were in base he still has the edge. If you want to use the anime, which you have been using, the copy of Piccolo inside Buu was giving ssj Vegeta trouble. This is important since the copies were stated to have the power of the real ting. If you think ssj is over a 1,000x multiplier like you do, there is no way Piccolo does anything to end of Buu saga ssj Vegeta. Also if we are talking about Vegeta's hype talk, he also said he could beat Jiren in base during the tournament of power, and then proceeded to get folded.
IMO Beerus saying base Goku can't beat Frieza is the most clear author intent statement we have. I can understand not wanting to use that, especially since it's not a part of the original manga, but I still think you made the jumps way too big. Piccolo and Vegeta after training for a year and a half after the Frieza saga were still fodder to a Frieza massively weaker than full power Namek Frieza as stated by Gohan. Training for another 3 years for the androids isn't going to magically make their power increase a thousand fold when a year and a half of training only made them a couple times stronger at most.
@@weeaboo-warrior we don’t know how shins paralysis works for all we know he can paralyze people stronger than him infact in the dbs manga he actually paralyzes dabura while he himself is on deaths door also if he thought that fighting yakon alone would allowing to go to buu that would still imply he had the speed and power to damage any of them but his wording doesn’t even imply he’s talking about energy going to buu cus he said they “MUST” strike together to win so all of this would just suggest shins paralysis can work on people stronger than him also piccolo says in the anime he can sense shin so they probably can gauge his power
Piccolo like said multiple times right in front of Vegeta that he was going to enter the tournament so I feel like that’s a bit dishonest and the statement would only apply to the saiyans as he does imply also that he would win the whole thing especially in the herms translation and the piccolo copy in the anime has like inconsistent power since a sbc canon from it knocked out gotenks and could damage the same Vegeta that was beating up gotenks not even mentioning that Vegeta himself wasn’t even at 1% of his power inside buu as stated in daizenshuu 10 also Vegeta didn’t actually think he could beat jiren and was more so saying that to hype himself up which jiren himself actually calls him out for so it’s not the same as with here as Vegeta was genuinely confident in his abilities
Using author intent is kind of a fallacious argument because you have no idea what the writers were intending with that scene as it was never stated what their intent was for all we know they could have said that to show that beerus has no idea how good goku really was and it’s just made very apparent that beerus was just wrong and while vegeta and piccolo were still below Frieza it is important to note that goku did think it was somewhat conceivable that they could have beaten Frieza so they might actually be approaching ssj level or wat least somewhat approaching on that tier even then and it’s kind of headcanon to say they wouldn’t get that much stronger in 3 years while they have an huge amount of motivation to train those 3 years in comparison to before where they were basically living in a time of piece I mean with motivation most of the Z fighters got between 10-20x stronger in like 11 months so I don’t find it that far fetched especially now that they have better training partners
I don’t see how not using half means that he was close to using half I think he was just trying to tell Gohan how suppressed he was I don’t think he has to give an exact amount like in the universe 6 tournament who’s says Vegeta was not even at 10% vs hit when we know in reality he wasn’t even at 2% cus blue is 50x god so they don’t always need to give an exact quantification but this doesn’t even matter anyway since this video is primarily based don the anime so that scaling wouldn’t even apply as future Gohan is blantantly portrayed in a much higher regard
@@mrperfectcell5079 Yeah, Shin can definitely paralyze people physically stronger than himself, but it just shows how powerful his Kai powers are. He was able to stop a ki blast from Buu that was completely overpowering ssj2 Gohan and got up after Buu's assault. I don't see Yakon replicating either of that. Shin was worried for the saiyans and said they have to attack together after he saw Yakon almost tag Goku. He did not want to take any chances. Piccolo sensing Shin's power works in Shin's favor imo as Piccolo hyped up Shin rather than saying "he is fodder weaker than your base forms."
When did Piccolo say he was entering the tournament in front of Vegeta? They didn't even meet until at the tournament which is after Vegeta already made the statement. Unless there are some filler scenes I'm not remembering... but in the manga no such thing exists.
Beerus said base Goku couldn't beat Frieza. After going ssj Beerus said Frieza was the best Goku could do. Before Goku went ssj3 Beerus said he could sense Goku was holding back power and he can't hide his power from him. All evidence points to Beerus' statement being legit.
Goku asked if it was Vegeta or Piccolo because he did not anticipate a super saiyan from the future, so they are the only other options, and Frieza was stated to be massively suppressed so maybe Goku thought they got lucky and killed Frieza before he went full power. I could see them getting 10s, maybe even 100s of times stronger in 3 years, but once we start going into the thousands that's really pushing it. It's unprecedented compared to other training periods.
Are you talking about the Super manga with the 10% SSB Vegeta thing? If you are, first off, there is no confirmation that SSB is 50x SSG. Even if it was, this is perfectly explained by the existence of mastered SSB. So mastered SSB would be 50x SSG, and non mastered SSB with ki leaking out would be 5-10x SSG like the line in the manga suggests.
@@mrperfectcell5079 Also btw one translation has 17 say he used exactly half his power.
v14.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/img/tab_14/00/38/04/me955161/vol_33_chapter_trunks_the_story_a_lone_warrior/11-o.jpg
I'm trying to figure out which is the literal translation.
Power levels have long since been irrelevant so it doesn't really matter.
Goku(Post Three Years of Training For the Androids) 1 800 000 000
SSJ 90 000 000 000
Gohan 36 000 000
GokuPost Yadrat Training) 36 000 000
SSJ 1 800 000 000
Base Future Trunks(vs Mecha Frieza) 36 000 000
SSJ 1 800 000 000
Mecha Frieza 1 440 000 000
Base Goku(Namek Saga) 3 000 000
Kaiokenx10 30 000 000
Kaiokenx20 60 000 000
Kaiokenx20 Kamehameha 66 600 000
Super Saiyan 150 000 000
Super Saiyan Kamehameha 156 600 000
Frieza 50% 60 000 000
100% 120 000 000
0:05 Are they wrong? Powerscaling is shit and headcanon only.
If you start being toxic because of some powerscaling headcanon you have you ain't worth my respect.
Ah I see so you are an anti powerscaler yeah no powerscaling is not headcanon usually people will provide evidence when they say goku is universal or cell>dabura people don’t just go off their opinion they use actual arguments backed up by things in the manga, anime, and official databooks
@@mrperfectcell5079 No, powerscaling is headcanon in the sense that If you start saying stuff like "Dragon Ball is 5D and Multiverse level++" you need to chill out and watch the show for what it is.
A battle shonen made for kids. (I had this whole dicussion yesterday with some guy about Goku speed just to show him how the Super Hero and Battle of God movies showed raindrop falling at normal speed and he was angry at me)
Obviously I don't care how much you thinks X characters is strong or what they can do because Toriyama obviously didn't write the story with feats or powerscaling in mind.
Hope you understand.
@@Narrativerse it’s not headcanon if people have a basis for it like this just sounds like you coping
Also dragon ball is not made for kids and I hope you know the super hero visual definitely wasn’t meant to be taken seriously as it was just to give the scene more visual flair I don’t think it can actually be used to scale gokus speed cus realistically goku should be faster than like rain drops even in early db he is moving too fast for people to perceive
Also you literally cannot prove what toriyama had in mind when he was writing the series like I have seen antipowerscalers do this shit all the time it’s just baseless headcanon for all we know powerscaling could very well be toriyamas intent and regardless it is still is a thing that exists whether toriyama intended it or not and the same applies to feats because all powerscaling is is just comparing one characters power to other characters which happens all the time in dragon ball examples being saibamen being stated equal to raditz, goku stated stronger than frieza, power levels as concept we’re stated by toriyama to show who is stronger than who so dragon ball blantantly has and does actively use powerscaling like you are just making shit up because you don’t like the concept
@@mrperfectcell5079 Dude too much yap, 20 words or less
@@NarrativerseJust say that you have no argument instead of blatantly showing that you would rather not read something that would take you less than two minutes to read
😮lowball ide say 1 or 2 billion 😅 . highball 10 to 15.
I mean think about it
he was dead tired and first ssj transformación was 150million
Much higher than that
There's no way that Freeza was at 1.44 billion as a cyborg, lol. Come on now... that makes zero sense. Considering when Goku went to Planet Yardrat to better control his Super Saiyan power and learn instant transmission (while also stating he only had A LITTLE time to train). And with Trunks being able to best Freeza so EASILY, there's no way that they would be in the billions.
It just makes no sense at all. Cyborg Freeza was probably only 145 million at best and all your other power levels are completely insane.
So your argument is to ignore all the evidence, even though Mecha Frieza directly says that the attack he launched at Trunks is 10 times stronger than the one he used on Namek
@@yeikelamores6085 Did he say something like that in the manga? Because I sure don't recall that. What's also said in the anime compared to the manga can definitely be irrelevant. Almost every realistic power level list I've seen barely EVER has Freeza being at least 200 milion as a cyborg.
I mean, what goes against that really? I don’t see anything that debunks it.
@@azimuddin1890 It's just simple logic, really. Read my post again carefully.
@@Travis371
It’s just a x10 boost. Gokou went from 90,000 to 3,000,000 in Base from getting a Zenkai, and that’s like a x40 boost. I think 2 years between the end of Namek to beginning of Android Saga is reasonable for Gokou to get that strong. Still, there’s actual statements that Mr.Perfect Cell said that proves that Freeza got at least over x10 stronger.
Logically true but everyone just says that SSJ2 Gohan was around 8 billion (don't know why)
They are people who don't know scale, they use Headcanon and ignore the evidence, for example,They love to put 17 and 18 with only 2x the power of Namek Goku, which doesn't make any sense,They also love to ignore the increase in SJS grades
Mecha Freeza being stronger than he was on Namek: 1:04
Mecha Freeza - 1,440,000,000
Future Trunks: 1:47
Son Gokou: 2:05
Base Gokou & (Future) Trunks - 36,000,000 & S.S.Grade.1 - 1,800,000,000
Son Gohan being stronger than S.S.Grade.1 (Future) Trunks: 2:17
Base Gohan (trained to fight the Androids) - 1,800,000,000
Son Gokou power being x50 greater than Gohan’s: 2:55
S.S.Grade.1 Gokou - 90,000,000,000
Piccolo Jr being a S.S tier: 3:25
Piccolo Jr - 90,0000,000,000
Piccolo Jr fused with Kami: 3:37
Piccolo Jr fused with Kami - 450,000,000,000
Cell’s power eclipse Piccolo Jr’s: 4:15
2nd Form Cell - 1,800,000,000,000
Piccolo Jr surpassing 2nd Form Cell: 4:55
Piccolo Jr - 1,800,000,000,000
Base Gokou & Gohan are stronger than him, lol: 5:14
Gokou & Gohan are relative: 5:56
S.S.Grade.4 Gokou & Gohan - 1,800,000,000,000,000
Holy shit that was so bad, but keep having fun.
You wanna argue this on discord?
Cus if you wanna talk shit we can go at it
@@mrperfectcell5079 Quality is subjective.
The video and logic within it is bad to me.
@@Narrativerse you are still shit talking so are we gonna go on discord orr
@@mrperfectcell5079 Or what? You're going to whine harder?
I told you, quality is subjective. If I show you my favorite music you might not like them the same way I do.
I don't like your video and your reasoning, this is why it's bad.
UA-cam have a dislikes fonction for that reason, there is no "shit-talking" here.
@@Narrativerse no i am just gonna delte your comments if your gonna be a duck
like how are you gonna talk shit and not pull up you are a loser lol
I love how you say you didnt like my reasoning yet you failed to disprove me lol you suck
nah bro i watch power levels none are right
I don’t get it? There’s no confirmed power levels past Namek Saga, or at least a consistent one. I don’t believe (Z) Gogeta being at 2,500,000,000 in V-Jump I think. Too low in my opinion as there’s more characters in the Cell Saga that had massive jumps in power.
@@azimuddin1890 Z gogeta doesnt exist
@@azimuddin1890 cell power level was 2.5 billion and super pecfect was 5 billion vs gohan kamehameha was 13 billion
@@David_beast
(Z) Gogeta is Gogeta from the Fusion Reborn movie, Z’s version of Gogeta.
@@David_beast
Are those power-levels official?
∞
U again
Personally I don’t see Goku being that Strong. But I definitely agree with your power scaling concept. Such as Goku & Gohan being relative to each other as Mastered SSJ’s even though Gohan is slighty Stronger.
The Frieza Arc; Chaotzu - 9,100. Yamcha - 72,000. Krillin - 85,000. Tienshinhan - 175,000. Gohan - 750,000. Piccolo - 800,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000. Goku - 3,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x10] - 30,000,000. Goku[Kaio-Ken x20] - 60,000,000. Goku[Spirit Bomb] - 72,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 90,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 100,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 120,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000. Final Form Frieza - 120,000,000.
Cell Arc; The Cell Games; 7 Cell Jrs - 75,000,000,000. Perfect Cell - 225,000,000,000. Super Perfect Cell - 260,000,000,000.
Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 3,300,000,000 Super Saiyan Teen Gohan - 165,000,000,000. Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan 330,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 3,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Goku - 150,000,000,000. Vegeta - 1,200,000,000. Super Saiyan Vegeta - 60,000,000,000. Future Trunks - 1,000,000,000. Super Saiyan Future Trunks - 50,000,000,000. Piccolo - 24,000,000,000. Tienshinhan - 7,000,000,000. Krillin - 5,000,000,000. Yamcha - 4,000,000,000.
Perfect Cell 225 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than Goku. SSJ Goku 150 Billion, is 75 Billion times Stronger than The Cell Jrs. The Cell Jrs @ 75 Billion are 1/3 Perfect Cell. Goku, Gohan & Cell are all in the same realm of power (One Hundred Billions Place Value) Goku 150 Bill can defeat Gohan 165 Bill, in their Mastered Super Saiyan State. Evidence to support this.. 1) Goku trained Gohan in The Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Gohan never reported he beat Goku in a fight. This means, despite being Stronger, that marginal at best. 2) Perfect Cell fought SSJ Goku & SSJ Teen Gohan. After feelin & witnessing Gohan being Stronger, Cell still wanted to fight Goku.. This means Goku & Gohan, are not only relative to each other. Them being so close in power level, Goku has the advantage. His Martial Arts Skills, Technique & Battle Experience make him The Superior fighter, especially to Gohan. This is the storytelling narrative literally tellin us, despite Teen Gohan’s slight edge in power level, Goku would still defeat Gohan. This is somethin all the fans missed.
Vegeta @ 1.2 Billion & SSJ Vegeta @ 60 Billion, is far too weak to kill any of the 7 Cell Jrs. Bcuz their power levels are in the Ten Billions place value, the distance in their power levels are far too great. It’s ironic, the small difference between Goku & Gohan is insignificant, meanwhile the difference between Vegeta & The Cell Jrs is significant. This is a power scaling feat. Different realms & levels of power, have different strengths and weaknesses. It’s very ironic, for Vegera to be so close, yet so far away. Future Trunks is right under Vegeta, yet he too, is far too weak to defeat The Cell Jrs.
Piccolo also has a power level in the Ten Billions place value, yet it doesn’t matter. Why? He is far too weak. The Earthling Z fighters are Immensely Powerful. They all have power levels in The Ones Billion Place Value. Unfortunately they are the weakest, and are also incapable of defeating any of The 7 Cell Jrs. Even so, it is interesting to note, all The Earthling Z fighters have Power Levels higher than all The Saiyans Base Form. Evidence to support this is in both DBZ Manga & DBZ KAI Anime.. 1) When Mastered SSJ Goku is depleted in power, his power level reverts back to The Max power level of his base form, 3 Billion. 2) SSJ Goku is so weak, Yamcha & Tienshinhan must defend him. So he won’t be outright killed by The Cell Jrs. 3) This also is a power scaling feat, showcasing The Earthling Z fighters & Piccolo are relative to The Saiyans base forms. Ya see, the Saiyan can’t simply be OP, w/o The Power Levels make sense of Piccolo & The Earthling Z fighters being Superior & relative to The Saiyan’ base form. This too is a Power Scaling Feat far too many fans are unaware of or easily overlook.