Why You May Be Making A Mistake When Buying Your Next EV
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- Tesla is famous for being an upstart company that has successfully taken on legacy car makers to reshape the car industry. But is that strategy always the best? Could we be overlooking legacy car makers? To find out what's going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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Legacy companies could and maybe should have taken the Cupra route, started a standalone brand with a blank sheet of paper.
Dave, like many I cannot afford a new EV... howsabout a quaterly used EV roundup, or something similar? Or, a deep dive on a model of interest and how they fare as used purchases? Just some ideas...
In 2009 my wife and I paid off our car loans. Since we were used to having a car loan in our budget we started putting the "payments" into a brokerage account. Since then when we go to purchase a car we transfer the money, get a cashier's check from the bank, take it to the dealer (we buy used), and walk away with the keys debt free. Could you start putting aside money $200/month (or whatever currency you're using - pound sterling, euro, etc. - I live in the US)?
EVs are quite affordable and especially if you count in fuel saving, you can most likely buy a slightly used EV for a lot less than a new one, maybe you should look a little around
@@casperhansen826But the average Joe is not thinking about possible future savings, as well its been already proven that a good economical ICE is actually cheaper on a road trip when EV use public chargers.
Here n the UK, I have just bought a 7 month old EV which had done under 6,000 miles for under £17,000. It's basically a new car that was £33,000 new. It has a 5 year warranty on everything, unlimited mileage. There are bargains to be had if you find an EV that matches your needs.
@@ronnielloyd4676 Very good! Did you just trawl through Autotrader, or was this via someone you knew? How did you do this?? Thanks! :)
I do agree with you, buying an EV would be a mistake.
I agree with everything you say, Legacy auto doesnt want us to have EVs because theyre afraid of losing everything theyve got already and also the Unions wouldnt like it .
Imagine how good an EV from Toyota would be if they really put their minds to it , but they dont want to , so you end up with a half hearted effort like the Bz4y or whatever it is.
It's crazy to think Toyota were more than halfway there with the Prius. But unfortunately - for reasons best known to themselves - Toyota didn't evolve and develop it into a full on EV....
I have a Skoda Enyaq. Better tthan a Model Y and Skoda is in the Volkswagen group. They can do it.
@rogerphelps9939 Depends what you mean by better ? Is it better than a Chinese EV SUV for a third of the price?? And as you said its VW ,not well known for a fantastic EV ,the ID3 has been a bit of a disaster. In terms of infrastructure, and efficiency and modernity Tesla has it ,nothing can touch them .
I have a Toyota Bz4x, and sure, it had several issues, but the only big issue remaining is fast charging in the winter. On the other hand, when the temp is −20 °C or below, I would like to keep close to home and make sure nothing bad happens to my house. In summer, when it's time for road trips, charging is no issue at all. Also, model year 2024 should have it all sorted out. The best thing about the Toyota is that it has a real turn signal lever.😀
We went from VW (Tiguan, 58 Plate, Golf 59 plate), to an MG4, simply because of price / availability. VW never caused any issue, aside from the servicing & running (fuel) costs. Now do approx 20000 miles per £500 a year, before that the fuel bill was approaching £3000-£4000 / year.
Very similar experience with similar cars
I think the exception to what you're saying is Hyundai/Kia who are producing great EV's and are also starting to bring prices down. I suppose Renault are doing something similar but only half-heartedly. But yes, you are right, legacy auto is currently in a tiswas not know which way to turn. I laughingly remember in the early days of Elon Musk taking over Tesla and telling legacy auto that he would show them how to build EV's if they wanted. But of course they were too proud to accept his offer. I'm sure they are all regretting that decision!
Yep, I traded the Tiguan for an MG4 Trophy (Essence here). It has been well worthwhile.
Just bought a new BYD Chinese EV myself recently and I think you're absolutely right: legacy auto is not going to be the dominant player in the EV market. Sure they make good reliable cars but when they bring out EVs, they have this outdated battery chemistry (NCM instead of the newer LFP), they still try to charge you a yearly subscription fees for features like seat heating (which the Chinese have standard in each car) and they want you to come to their dealer network every year to charge you an outrageous maintenance fee (knowing that EVs require very little maintenance). And oh, forgot to mention: they are bloody expensive compared to Chinese brands. Case in point, case closed 🙂
I love my Mercedes-Geely- Smart-Brabus. They all do what they do best.
Not sure I totally agree. Not everyone wants the minimalist Tesla-type, interconnected interface. There some decent EVs being produced by legacy auto, just not at the right price. It’s designing/manufacturing at speed and scale they haven’t yet adapted to. Some of them will.
In reality there should not be a single product of any sort that every single person demands, we need variety
@@davetakesitonTesla’s minimalist approach is not for me, and I still believe that most screen based MMIs (including my BMW i4) are not safe, with Tesla being the worst. For example having the speedo in the centre of the dash might have been acceptable in a Mini in the 1960s but surely not today….what about a heads up display if you want to keep the minimalist approach?
It's not about that ,it's about Legqcy carmakers unable or unwilling to give people what they want ,whilst Tesla and the Chinese just get on with it. For instance ,look at the Explorer ,it's late to market and Ford has had to take all the bad bits from the VW IDs and has come up with a rather bland and forgettable car that will be doing well to reach its promised efficiency. What they should have done is teamed up with Tesla or Chinese . It's a disaster for Ford , another bad decision because they didn't want to just accept that the Chinese are now the world's leaders in EVs .
@@stevejewiss532 BMW certainly gives me what I want with the i4 and i5 whereas the products from Tesla and the Chinese and Korean brands I’ve experienced certainly don’t.
@@harrycummings6501 I'd be curious to know what the i4 and i5 have that a Smart #3 (or Zeekr 001 if we go for a similar price tag) doesn't have.
Spot on, they are way behind the curve, I said years ago if I was a ford executive I would have been asking my R&D dept to find a way of converting & electrifying my stored ice cars.
It’s a damned shame they missed the boat
No. If you convert and ICE car you get an inferior product. Far better to design an EV from the ground up.
@@rogerphelps9939 yea totally agree that ground up EVs are better, but it would have been better than falling behind in the race to EV production, Kia & Hyundai made it work with the Niro & Kona and they are in my opinion very usable EVs.
It would have given the legacy motor industry time and experience to be up front in the race.
We ended up with an MG purely because it was a better car than anything from the traditional manufacturers by miles & over £15k less than the next best car we tried. Better built & far more comfortable than my previous Mercedes (had 6 previously) & more comfortable than anything they had in the showroom regardless of the powertrain.
(Odd clicking noise all the way through by the way)
My 2016 Nissan Note owned from new has been faultless requiring only a new fan belt, a light bulb, one set of wiper blades and a set of tyres in those eight years, it uses no oil and runs like a sewing machine.
But I recently checked out a Nissan Leaf as a possible next car - a NEW EV is out of my price range.
Insurance was nearly double my current premium £340 now as against £600 for a LEAF - the lowest quote I could find on several comparison sites I used. Road tax on my Note is £20 but going forward from next year I gather EVs will be charged at £190 similar to ICE cars sold today.
Leaving aside the cost of installing a home charging point of say £1000 (a quote I had for fitting an ohme charger) my only saving would be fuel costs - roughly 22 pence per mile against 5 pence per mile for an EV. (That's comparing my Note to a LEAF at current costs.) Depends on an EVs efficiency, cost of electricity and petrol and efficiency of a petrol car, of course.
However, the increase in insurance premium and road tax would actually mean I was paying more to run
an EV than my current ICE car. This is based on the mileage I do, cost of fuel, mpg, cost of electricity on an EV tariff and miles per kWh .
It is certain that if millions of people move to EVs the cost of charging at home will rise as "cheap" overnight electricity is based primarily on low demand which will inevitably not be the case at some point in the future.
Not only that but our ability to generate sufficient electricity to service this increased demand is currently not there and no political party has a coherent policy to resolve that problem nor indeed the money to do it.
I'll stick with my ICE car for as long as it's practical to do so.
I can see why you came to this conclusion, but I'm not sure I fully agree. Stellantis, VW and the Koreans are making good EVs that are competing with the newcomers. Yes, others are struggling, namely Ford and the Japanese. So, there seems to be a split depending on the legacy manufacturers.
Legacy companies are a complete waste of time for making EV. Totally agree with you Dave
We have a mg4, faultless quality. Well thought out, clever, many vag parts. We would never go back now
This channel is so good keep it up!
Many EVs are bought on finance where the savings are offset by finance payments. I have had an EV for the last 8 years and have saved a fortune. However I began my ev journey in order to stop pollution having worked for Shell and seen the effects in Nigeria of oil extraction.
Good discussion. It depends how 'Legacy' they are, Ford , GM , VAG, France Inc, Germany Inc, Japan Inc all have the issues you refer to. Kia/Hyundai/SAIC have less heritage and are adapting to reality, these newcomers have less fossil momentum to shift. The legacy companies are perfectly capable of making small and good EV's such as the E-Up and derivatives , but not of reconciling to reality of not monetising the maintenance shops, and having to get a profit on the sale alone.
Dave , you forgot to mention the EV1 produced by GM back in 1990. Watch "Who killed the Electric Car" this is what made me get my first EV , 11 years ago. A very inspiring film ..
By scrapping their EV project GM lost some of their engineers who set up "AC propulsion" it was their first car the T Zero which kicked off the modern EV in the mid 90's , using efficient AC inverters and motors.
It was the T Zero that inspired Tesla and Elon Musk and was the foundation of the Roadster. (Didnt Lotus make the rolling chassis?)
...first time I saw the Tesla logo was at a visit to the Lotus plant (Hethel, in Norfolk England) in 2008. Tesla has a building with their logo inside the Lotus plant. How did Tesla get so good so fast? The early designs were essentially Lotii ideas/engineering made with £££ budget, not 3/6d and some bits of wood+plastic, as Chapman would have done.
The red Roadster put in orbit between Earth and Mars by Elon's Falcon Heavy test launch was made in Hethel.
@@xlerb_again_to_music7908 yes, amazing how far Tesla has come ... Plus amazing you saw the Roadster production at Lotus ...
I agree. I have a legacy made EV now, which is the Nissan Leaf. Whilst it has been very reliable, it is as dull as dish water when it comes to features. for example, when I use the navigation, it shows me all the petrol stations around me because it is using the same satnav that goes into all Nissans. I am a few weeks away from getting the new model Y as a lease car and I cannot wait. The difference in features, performance, infrastructure, service approach is just mind blowing in comparison. I wished I had just gone Tesla 3 years ago but at least it gives me a good reference point with which to then judge the tesla. My original thinking was either Leaf or Tesla as both were the only two brands that had a good amount of history in the EV space. I ended up being ultra cautious and went for the cheaper Leaf. Still, new one on the way and I will enjoy it. cheers John
Well the Leaf was the actual pioneer. Here in he UK Leafs were around well before Teslas. It was in part due to Nissan that the UKs first rapid charging network got started. I agree that Nissan rather lost the plot later on though. Regarding the Model Y I suggest you try out a Skoda Enyaq. It is from a VW group company, and by many accounts it beats the Model Y in all aspects except possibly raw power.
Great video
Not sure the analogy with apple quite works. Apple were the legacy company who caught up with developments in smart phones. Android phones with big touchscreens and computer-like features (like web browsing) existed for years before apple decided they'd better catch up. When they did it was missing many of the features of the android upstarts and cost much more. They bet on the apple brand and that people would pay more for it. They were right.
I don't think that will happen with cars. People will welcome the cheaper and more advanced upstarts (like HTC or tesla/ BYD) rather than the big legacy companies (like apple or Ford).
He also forgot to mention that Apple don't make their products. Foxconn was manufacturing computers for Apple they then launched their iPod range which was also made by Foxconn. So it was natural to continue using the "experts" to continue building their next product the iPhone
Generally you self build items to save on cost. But if you can design your product with a big margin (Apple and Nvidia are masters here) then you can take the hit and use outside manufacturing.
Absolutely yeah.
I think there were people who didn't notice smartphones until the iPhone became popular and they assumed apple must have invented or pioneered the smartphone when they were quite late to the party.
@@oracleoftruthInventing something, and inventing something that people want to buy are two different things
@@victorrussell6284 well android phones are pretty popular and they were then too but yes definitely apple made the smartphone desirable to people who weren't into technology. They popularised it. But that's why the analogy doesn't quite work. Apple weren't pioneers of the technology; they were marketeers of it.
Tesla was the catalyst for EVs just like Apple was for smartphones.
They made them desirable.
Have you seen the Voyager 1 team? Talk about long-in-the-tooth! Still up to date on their PDP-8 variant assembler code.
The notion that legacy auto makers couldn't easily succeed in making EVs is sort of counter intuitive at first glance. Bodies are bodies , interiors are what they are , and they are already into steadily computerizing most aspects of ICE cars. Essentially the biggest change is the battery and the drive train and most importantly , the software. So , the fact that they are struggling to make EVs at a profit or to compete with startup companies is a bit of a surprise, but the writing is on the wall and the future will be BEV, and sooner than deniers may imagine. I think that ICE car makers will all survive , albeit with some mergers here and there and will eventually secure a very small piece of the pie in proportion to the size of the individual companies. Woe unto them if Chinese EV makers ever start making them in the U.S. or Europe to escape tariffs.
I don't think I will make a mistake buying my next EV because I don't think I'll ever need another EV. I've had one for 7 years and going to keep it until it dies like I have with many other cars I've had. Every car ends up scrap value in the end. This one still feels like new and so far not even needed a set of brake pads after 85k miles so fingers crossed that continues.
The savings in fuel, servicing and benefit in kind tax I've had in the time I've had it are more than half the cost of the car when compared to an equivalent ICE car I could have had so the car doesn't owe me much.
Second hand EVs are no longer hugely expensive so I think less risky than buying an ICE car with dubious service history.
I am pleased that we are getting EV only vehicles. It is not logical to try to simply add an electric motor to a car originally designed as a petrol or diesel car. The engineering requirements are different. You can do it but the result is very unlikely to be efficient and good to drive. Our approach to energy needs to be rethought. I charge the MG4 at home most of the time. If I need to add additional charge I only add what I need to get home.
It is a new era and it could take a while for the advantages to more widely adopted.
Cheers Dave
I think one of the main issues with legacy automakers is that they will have to lose vast numbers of employees. They all have multiple engine and transmission factories dotted around the Globe which will need to be closed in favour of, probably, a single electric based power train facility. Similarly, fewer assembly plant workers required to assemble the vehicle. Not going down well with the Auto Unions.
Quite the opposite. It's now, when the legacy audio needs to reduce staff, that the unions are much needed. For example, in inventing the knowledge already out there and guide the people who are losing jobs to good education, some in the automitive industry, but also some to other industries or businesses. The auto makers will need qualified personnel, albeit fewer, and the workers need to be on top and get education for new tasks.
@@gunnarparment5050 in all my 40 years in the auto industry, the unions were never instrumental in driving change or helping their members to re-train into higher skilled or alternate jobs. They were obstructive and eventually caused the closure of many factories. Still currently happening across Europe.
I agree mostly @davetakesiton, but apart from the slightly better software, battery and motor, a Tesla is still a car, with a monocoque shell, springs, dampers, control arms, steering rack, drive shafts, wheel hubs, brake discs and so on.
BMW and others have proved it's not that difficult to make EVs, as they have adapted their ICE bodies to accept what is arguably, a good set of EV running gear.
My i4 is based on an ICE 4 series, but still manages to average 3.6 m/kWh at a constant 70 mph, and on a mix of roads, can average around 4 m/kWh. Not that far behind a Tesla, seeing as Teslas are "bespoke" EVs.. And for those of us who prefer a more "traditional" car, with a more detailed exterior and interior, with some manual control knobs etc, it's a very good effort indeed.
You can't avoid the fact that until very recently, the biggest thing Tesla struggled with, was the actual building of the "car" bits. Yes, they have the battery, motor and software sorted, but the "car" building was woeful, and more on a par with the likes of early KIAs circa 2005.
Only recently, thanks to Germany and China, has the build quality become good.
Yes, Tesla have made big strides into manufacturing, like the Giga-Castings etc, but a lot of that was to offset the cost of the EV tech, by reducing the build time and cost of the bodies.
The down side, is now a "structural" battery pack, that may prove difficult to repair in 15 to 20 years' time.
Unless their long-term plan is to have a truly disposable car. Maybe in the near future, the motors will be sealed inside the bodywork, to gain a structural advantage of some sort.
If you are dreaming of the battery, or if a chinese the body too, lasting that long it would be a miracle, I reckon 10 years top.
NASA contracted out to legacy aircraft manufacturer Boeing, which has failed. Re Ford, his wife always drove an EV and refused to drive a Model T. Some manufacturers survive from the horse-drawn era making "coach-built" bodies for cars as they did in the days of wealthy people having their coach-built landau.
It comes down to risk. All engineering companies are risk-averse, as changing something, and getting it wrong, costs billions. Tesla's approach is to start out by changing things, but they also have 100's of billions to do it with.
Respect to Ford. IMO they’re trying to do the right thing.
"trying"
@@truebrit3670I think the word “trying” is fair. Jim Farley was the first to lead the way and adopt the Tesla, now NACS charging system, he did Tesla a favour there. He actually got in an EV truck (F150?) and did a road trip, after which he admitted they have a lot of work to do…
The first problem is admitting you have a problem, and he’s done that.
Ford appears to be making an effort. How much pain will they suffer in the long term I don;t know, but at least they’re not doing a Toyota, now that looks shocking to me. TPMS (Lean manufacturing) was world class. IMO Tesla makes it look like the original Ford production line.
It’s just my opinion. I hope Ford makes it. Competition is good for everyone, we don’t want a two or three horse race now do we.
Congratulations on 2 millon video views.
Wow did we get there? Thanks to you and all the others
Nissan had the first mass produced affordable EV, & had EVs before Tesla existed, for all the hype Tesla still aren't competing for the affordable entry level, the little model 3 starts at £40k with owners having to resort to 3rd party addons to even get a headup display. EVs at £25k are what really disrupts & takes on the ICE makers (curremtly coming from legacy makers as any model 2 talk seems to have gone quiet). The game changer has been and will be battery tech.
Unfortunately too many people don’t yet understand enough about EVs to make good judgements. You now are an expert by having dived in and tried. Now your judgement is better. Hope you enjoy your Y BTW Tesla roadster was 2008 Nissan leaf 2010
Lol, the original Nissan Leaf was not affordable! It's was a very expensive EV!
Tesla's share of the UK's BEV market is around 13% in 2024, the rest is "Legacy Auto". The VW Group sells more BEVs than Tesla in the UK.
That is why they are better than Teslas.
Are you surprised a business wants it to be & stay successful.
The only one that dont want to are some new hitech floats where the main aim is to get investors money as a retirement fund for the promoter.
I have never believed that Legacy Auto are "the best" at producing BEVs. As they are unable to improve the way they make vehicles. They simply do not have the ability to think outside the box and invent new technology.
I think there are a few logical fallacies here Dave. The thought that all workers in mainstream car makers would become obsolete. Truth is that's just not the case.
Cars still require chassis, they require electrics, they require suspension, they require bodywork, they require painting.
The engine may change but the EV shares a great many similarities to ICE vehicles.
The comparison of horse carriages to cars is disingenuous. It doesn't reflect on the similarities shown between EVs and ICE vehicles and let's not forget the first cars were indeed "Horseless carriages" and were built upon stagecoach technologies.
Tesla invested millions into their production from investors before they could begin to match the production numbers that traditional car makers already had.
Space x was founded by Musk in 2002, I think you're confusing space x with tesla.
Dont the "best minds in the world" know the world is flat and space is fake?? 🤣🤣
Have to say, I disagree Dave. An electric car is fundamentally the same object as a combustion engine car, just with a different drive train. There is a huge amount of knowledge and experience in legacy auto to allow them to cheaply and effectively manufacturer most of an EV. They just have to learn to develop or source batteries and motors and their production lines can switch overnight. The Stelantis model of producing cars on ICE and EV platforms and then just changing production based on demand is a perfect example. Tesla aren't the market leader in cars, they are the market leader in niche, expensive EVs for the relatively small number of people that are willing to be early adopters. Legacy manufacturers like Peugeot and Mini will fulfill the bulk of the EV market with a car that happens to have an electric motor, once they are able to produce them at comparable prices to existing ICE cars. It's that simple, unless you think the future of motoring looks fundamentally different to today's cars in some way.
Dave is correct , your assumption that all it's about is body ,design etc is false . Yes they could possibly do it and some have but with Chinese help , BMW with Mini and GW for example his point is ,the Legqcy carmakers don't or won't make decent EVs because they're too set in their ways and have dragged their feet for too long . There was an interesting documentary about all this a few years ago and everything they said has come to pass because Legacy auto would rather sell you a bug expensive EV SUV than something more affordable.
@stevejewiss532 what's wrong with the Peugeot e208 or the electric Vauxhall Corsa, or the electric Hyundai Kona? These are the cars that people buy on mass and the only thing holding back sales is the price point the manufacturers can get to. Legacy auto has all the tools they need to achieve good price points as demand increases. Tesla doesn't seem to be able to hit decent price points and has to remove often useful parts of the car to keep costs down.
I won't be making a mistake when buying my next EV because I'm not buying an EV. Hope that helps.
PS, is it true you can see fields full of unsold Teslas from space, or is that a conspiracy theory like this video?
Hi Dave, A correction; Elon Musk founded SpaceX in 2002, investing $100 million he made from the sale of PayPal. He did not bought SpaceX . TESLA was the one he co-founded
A correction: "Tesla Motors was founded as an electric carmaker by engineers Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning in 2003"
Musk being a co-founder is revisionist history rewriting
I know about Tesla. I was correcting what you stated about SpaceX. Please review your podcast to see what I mentioned. Thanks
Didn't co-found Tesla. Muscled his way in afterwards.
NASA 😆
Kodak, Nokia, BlackBerry, the entire Swiss Watch Industry…here we go again. Will we never learn?
Actually the entire Swiss watch industry adaped and is doing very well.
@@rogerphelps9939 you are right. In the end they did once they regrouped.
The reason legacy still make ICE vehicles is because there is still a massive demand for them. That demand far outweighs that for EV's. Why would a legacy automaker stop producing the vehicles that are still in high demand. Tesla make very limited choices compared to legacy but what they do produce sells very well. Legacy can produce very good EV's. When the market changes, legacy will change with it. They will already have the technology and production planning. There is just not enough demand for EV's at this time. PHEV will be the driver for the next few years.
There are mandates in most civilised parts of the world for all new cars to be EVs from 2035 if not earlier. Manufacturers are aware of this and, if they think that they will be able to shift them to the right they are mistaken. By then the criical situation that we are in will become crystal clear to even the mostt bonehead denialist or petrolhead. Most legacy makers have plans for the EV transition and will not wantto suppor both EV and obsolete ICE product lines even it there is sttill demand in places like he US.
Might I add, Apple tried to make an EV but failed miserably 2 years later! It goes to show even the biggest company on earth cannot make this successful.
Excuse you Dave
Legacy auto has already lost. Legacy Auto would succeed if they set up their own EV maker totally independent of the legacy, except maybe access to legacy names, which would give them a brilliant advantage. Eg Renault 5 looks awesome.
They should not be totally independent. They need access to all of the components of a car that are common to both ICEs and EVs.
Its because most of them thought you could just strap a battery to an ICE car design and every one would butyit. Those that designed from the ground up were successful.
And yet that is exactly what Toyota did, and they are now one of the most popular cars in the world, not a full EV but, of course, a hybrid that has a battery bolted to it.
@@gregb1599 Exactly my point, hybrids aren't pure EV's they are for ICE customers and for pure EV success view Tesla. like them or not.
Nissan designed the Leaf from the ground up and then stalled.
@@rogerphelps9939 Yes but look how popular from the start.
Legacy company’s are producing some very nice electric cars, my brothers Audi Etron is a much better car than my model Y….. but my model Y is a much better EV. Legacy auto are struggling to understand what an electric car actually needs to be a good ev.
1ste Question . . . 100% NO.
BigOil and legacy car makers, over the last 100 years, are merged into all levels. 1 cant live without the other.
And when legacy auto starts to shift 100% to EV, BigOil loses its deathgrip and total domination over consumers.
That's why Tesla became a succes story.
Only brands that shift 100% to EV (and in fact become a different industry with robots and giga castings, without unions,) will have a chance to stay alive.
Oil will survive, as it is needed for far more than fuel to power cars. Legacy auto on the other hand is a one trick pony.
Hello mate and no
EV will eventually prevail but the problem is they are not there yet. If you look at the auto industry early 1900s or the iphone where their product was significantly better than what was existing. This is not the case with EV at the moment. Current vehicles work fine and the EV just don't offer a big enough advantage yet over what's already on offer even with the taxpayer handouts. Once EVs offer a better alternative the market will move and legacy auto will follow. Some may fail as evidenced by recent failures of once large cap EV manufacturers. But some may just succeed. If people want an EV the option is there, if an ICE is more suitable the option should be there also both free of government interference. In a free society the market should be left to decide.
The advantage that EVs will help us to give our grandchildren a future worth living is a big enough advantage for me.
@@rogerphelps9939 Make sure you let China and India know about your grandchildren, as they keep building coal and gas power stations. 5000+ and counting. But you may not be in either of these countries so probably not an issue.
@@244col Absolutely wrong. Yes they are still building some coal fired power stations (nothing remotely as much as 5000) but the emphasis is squarely on renewables. China is building a huge amount of solar and wind plant. China expect CO2 emissions to peak arond 2027. They know that they are totally screwed if they do not switch to renewables. The historic emissions of the US, UK and Europe are still way higher than those of India and China. India will be particularly vulnerable to global warming with parts of the country uninhabitable in summer. Meawhile neighbouring Bangladesh is goinmg to be in very deep trouble when sea level rises by only one metre and that is millions of people with nowhere to go to. Clearly you do not understand the severity of the threat from global warming. I suggest you educate yourself. The business as usual scenario is sobering.
@@rogerphelps9939I think the 5000+ is reasonably accurate with China alone having already over 3000 coal generation units. And constructing more. This does not include their gas units. As for climate change I'll admit I have lost interest in due to all the nonsense on both sides of the debate since being drilled into me since childhood. But I know that for as long as I can remember we had summers with numerous days above 40 Celsius. The last three years the hottest on record were told, not one above 39. Mmm. But if I'm wrong I guess I'm wrong.
Rather a long winded analogy Dave, stick to EVs not space please.
I'm still struggling with the question of how much of the legacy problem is psychology and how much is real economics. They need to invest in starting new EV models (designing and manufacturing) while needing to simultaneously profit on existing ICE lines. That may just not be possible without external assistance, such as government subsidies. To really settle this question requires a lot more analysis than I have seen anywhere so far.
The other way to finesse the transition could be simply to do it much more slowly. But Tesla screwed up the whole game by doing just what they said they planned to do, which is to accelerate the transition.
Legacy auto is going to struggle with EVs, and if history teaches us anything, fail to make a transition to EVs and fall by the wayside.
The biggest issue isn't ability, it's not even price, it's their business model.
Legacy auto is totally handicapped by its reliance on & responsibilities to its established dealer network. A burden that survives on the fallible nature of ICE products and the markups that allow them to make a sizeable cut from new car prices. But without them, legacy auto can't access the market.
The transition to some sort of alternative is inevitable, as the World's oil reserves get used up, and are no longer viable to continue refining into the huge amounts of petrol and diesel we are so used to using. We can no longer carry on using what isn't available.....
@@Brian-om2hh Unfortunately they keep discovering the stuff. Fracking has unlocked huge reserves, especially in the US. We have more than enough oil to burn to completely fry us. That is why there have to be mandates that all new cars are EVs and the sooner the bettter. I envisage that, in about 10 years time, when every succeeding year has set a new global temperature record, there will acttually be ICE scrappage schemes to get them off the road.
😱 oh NO! 🤯no "definite" charging guide, today? 😭
daily uploads must be real b|4ch... 🤣
12 minutes of waffle, then got to the point that Tesla are the best…you really are a Tesla/Elon fan boy Dave. By the way some legacy manufacturers are proving that you can have your cake and eat it, for example BMW produce EVs, Hybrids and ICE cars on the same production line. Tesla are the EV equivalent of Skoda, everyone knows that in the ICE World the only car you ever need is a Skoda. But what about choice? Personally having much experience of Chinese engineering in a critical industry (usually involving cheap copies of European products) it worries me greatly that such products may, and probably are, used in our Nuclear industry. So when it comes to buying a car Chinese manufacturers are a no go for me.
Oh Dave now you are turning into a conspiracy theorist, look at how long it took for diesel to become established in Europe, it was at least 20 years post 70's and fast tracked with the invention of turbochargers and direct injection. It wasn't until 2010 that diesel overtook petrol sales in the UK.
The Chinese invested 28 billion US into EV's, tax breaks for purchasers, grants for infrastructure, and why they are miles ahead of US and EU legacy producers but the market has tanked in China. As their market becomes more competitive and they are facing tariffs from US and EU, they will cut costs and product quality. There are already many documented producers with bits hanging off cars, and real consumer law in China is only coming to the fore on 1st July.
We do need a "Ryanair" producer to upset the traditional car market but some folks will always want to fly BA, Air France or Lufthansa.
I'm still going to use my local shop instead of Temu 🙂
The market in China has not so much tanked as the production is miles ahead of demand with too many grabbing government grants. Not sure the drop in quality will happen if they just turn their sales towards Europe and USA
I won't buy a car from a company that has zero car manufacturing in the UK and that includes Ford. I don't see why anyone would want to, it is not like there is no choice. I can't think of anything more selfish and ignorant of their society. There is no excuse to buy from companies that won't do it. By all means buy a car that is made abroad, but I refuse to buy one from a manufacturer that refuses to make any of their cars in the UK. It benefits everyone in our society when we only buy from companies that at least manufacture some cars in UK.
Buy a Nissan LEAF, made in Sunderland. Or an Ariya, or Juke. Or a BMW Mini .
@@solentbum Or a Nissan Qashqai or a Toyota Corolla or a Suzuki Swace.
History of the electric vehicle
Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › History_of_the_electri...
Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles appeared during the 1890s.
That may be so, but likening that first vehicle with the current tech is like comparing Telegraph with an iPhone.
@@truebrit3670. Agreed. its still amusing that Porsche’s first car was electric.
@ObiePaddles even more amazing it wasn't.until the mid 80s, that Porsche produced a 911 as quick 0-60 as my EV family estate.
Yeah I won't make the same mistake, 15 months and counting to hand the piece of electric crap back