Disappointing to think that the night lords could have just been a chapter of lawyers instead of psychos. Imagine for a moment a space marine in a suit and tie with a briefcase just staring down a heretic, before listing off his crimes and then smashing his head in screaming guilty.
Dogmelter42 On a planetary level, and only as far as planetary law goes. The Night Lords would’ve been a galactic force that would hunt the criminals down no matter how far they ran, and wouldn’t waste time with due process and just slaughter the guilty.
I think my favorite bit that about Konrad is the scene where he's talking with Sanguinius and Sanguinius shows him that the future can be changed and he shits his pants in horror as he realizes that the only reason things we're going the way they were was because he didn't really try.
Both experienced visions of horrible things. Sanguinius tried to change the future for the better and Night Haunter just accepted them as fact. Probably part of the reason why he felt that he deserved the death that he was getting.
@@robertnelson9599 no that’s just the thing. They were perfect. They had no flaw (at birth at least) and their need to be perfect and the striving to remain so in the eyes of the emperor, who did favor horus more than the rest, that laid the foundation for the heresy. They were perfect, and yet the person they were made to serve saw one of them as more perfect than the rest. All the other terrible parenting the emperor did caused the resentment to form, allowing the heresy. The competition in combination with the terrible parenting allowed the chaos gods to influence them.
@@robertnelson9599 volcan for example can be too good (not craking nigth hunters skull when he could) even or sweates sun cakes, have flaws thas awasome of war hammer
@@notinspectorgadget pete bare handed not even ripped off,but dismantled the armour of one of his iron warriors, while the dude was wearing it, im surprized with both, pete unwieldy strength to crush ceramite like it was clay, and the soldier for not getting knocked out due to the nerves on his black carapace basicaly making the dude agonize
Well, that was the point of Robin in Batman mythos..... give something human to nurture to the creature of the cave. Something to keep some perspective, some humanity, instead of just insane obsesión. In the brutal setting of the 40k, the need for and the consequences of lacking that kind of things, specially when you have great power...... are specially awful.
How is it relevant? Tywin was talking about an assassination/massacre. Or more aptly, the betrayal of the Freys, not only to The King in the North but also to the unspoken code of honor everyone in Westeros abided by. He had a point, but that has nothing to do with Curze.
Benersan the Bread It is relaxant though. It's because arch at the beginning of the video said how Konrad put the lives of the many over the lives of the few which is related to this quote.
@@BenersantheBread The relevance is is that Konrad and Tywin are both fans of using dirty, dishonorable, even cruel methods to avoid or reduce the horrors of all-out war. Likewise, they also share a lack of empathy which blinds them to the long-term implications and consequences of their actions.
@@BenersantheBread The point is, that Curze preferred to wage war in a way his brothers called "dishonourable" . The Night Lords conquered planets by killing a thousand people, brutally massacring them, flaying them alive etc. Other Legions, like the Space Wolves, World Eaters, even the Ultramarines, conquered planets in open battles, what was supposedly "honourable". But their way of waging war killed houndreds of thousands, if not millions, so much more people, but they nonetheless scolded Curze for his tactics. Here the quote relates to this. "Killing a dozen people at a dinner" refers to the Night Lords tactics, while "kill 10,000 men in battle" to the tactics of his brothers.
_"Who's planet was quite literally dominated by giant man eating zombie monsters..."_ Arch can you pretty please make a comprehensive breakdown for the lore of Mortarion.
Just add to the list of things Arch promises to do this century, alongside videos on: Clan Pestilens, Cathay, The Hung, and any Primarch that is not Curze or Perturabo.
"You could have made me ruthless but instead you made me evil" Konrad saying this is heartbreaking, it paints a picture that what he wanted to be fell away to the night haunter.
To my mind, Konrad was *never* allowed to become who he was supposed to be. Aside from Angron, he's the worst Primarch and pretty close to the weakest, especially in the light of who he *could* have been. To me, that's tragedy. That's sad. Konrad *could* have become an avatar of justice and law and righteousness. Instead he became the Punisher with Superman's powers. A nightmare. A horrifying, unbelievably scary tyranny that you could never, ever escape from or change.
@@Sevatar_VIIIth Bearing in mind, of course, that every Primarch is a nastier customer than any normal human could ever, ever, ever be. My point is that Konrad's potential, much like Angron's, was unfortunately wasted in his psychosis, paranoia and self-hatred.
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq while I agree his potential was imo the greatest of all his brothers, Konrad was nowhere near the weakest of them. I may be missunderstading what you mean when you say weak? In a physical fight Konrad is in the top 3 (imho) at the very least top 4 of all the Primarchs. Again, maybe I'm missunderstading your meaning.
@@Sevatar_VIIIth Right, and I don't know if I'm explaining it properly, because every Primarch is one nasty customer. My argument is that unlike Sanguinius or the Lion or Vulkan, Konrad never got the opportunity to really... Be human. It stunted him in many ways. He was more or less born into a lightless underworld cannibalizing quasi-innocent people. He didn't *grow up* learning about right and wrong and the law, he simply ate the wicked and learned how to spread terror as he went along. In other words, I think that Konrad's story would be a lot less tragic and wasted if he had ever had a mentor or someone capable of handling his psychic psychosis.
I can imagine that the emperor designed him with a split personality for his role as the perfect judge One for the defender and one for the accuser, which would argue both positions so he would decide the case most fairly
What a *FASCINATING* idea, and in W40K? That's not outside the realm of possibility. I could actually *see* a lawyer Konrad, ya know? All spooky-looking/beautiful and jacked and 9 feet tall in a business suit, arguing both positions with perfect understanding on camera and laying out the law for all to witness, and then laying down the perfect judgment and citing 2 decades worth of prior conviction sentences like a combination of Judge Dredd and Judge Judy. Or Cardassians, if you like Star Trek, which I do.
His story genuinely saddens me. The way he had lived, and how he slowly destroyed himself, whether intentional or not. But I feel like this is a story of what can happen to someone if there was never any love in their lives. He had no friends to share experiences and understand with, no family to show care or support. Let alone help him understand the complexities of man. even when he was losing his mind, he still tried to redeem himself with his death. His life was a tragedy, but one worth remembering.
Totally agree with guys who liked the old Konrad more, because his actions were calculated, his mind was cold as he followed the ideas of "the end justifies the means" and "sacrifice few to save many" and only after faced his own judgement without cheap "split personality" excuse. Old Konrad was a man, new is really more like an emotional child with tragic fate, some kind of Raskolnikov of 40k. Still good, but it was better.
damn you made a dostoyevsky comparison to wh40k. i really think this fandom is filled with a lot of intellectuals naturally. at least the OG 40k lovers are for sure. i also see large new waves of ppl coming to 40k bc of lore videos and i love it
I think Konrad essentially just being a broken child fits with the theme of most primarchs though tbh. One common thread among most primarchs, especially the traitors, was horrible upbringings and lack of love from a parental figure
@@tuskinradar8688 everything but the enemy is behind the death corps of krieg, bayonets, shovels and rifles at the ready at all times *excited gas mask noises*
To summarize: The original Konrad served as an example of what happens when law becomes divorce from morality. His mind breaking from the stress of his unethical actions and his attempts to justify himself using the logic of "the ends justify the means," but ultimately his salvation came from assisted sucide in a vain attempt at repentance for his crimes against humanity. The new Konrad exists as an example of what happens when a child gains too much too quickly. All his knowledge lacked wisdom or experience to temper it, thus he became increasingly irrational. The splitting of his mind represents his attempts to preserve his innocence, but by imprisoning his humanity, he allows a callous lawful evil monster to walk the universe; searching for a hunter to put himself down. Eventually, the monster gives up and the child awakens to the horrors of his actions and escapes any consequences through death. In my opinion, I prefer the old one to the new, as the old one serves as a cautionary tale about the law. While the new one, simply exists to be a tragic monster; Alucard from Hellsing, for example, demonstrated this concept and was executed to a better degree than the new Konrad. This lack of a moral lesson, along with the change in when he dies, just doesn't satisfy me.
I agree. The original is a more compelling story. However, I will say the new Konrad is very much in line with most of the primarchs, and even the space marines. Commonly childish, and irrational. Often thinking themselves invincible, and better then others. The tale of all of them is commonly of what happens when you gain to much to fast, and scant few of the primarchs, and even less of the space marines manage to temper themselves with wisdom.
I disagree. There's many moral takeaways. One is the dangers of being victim to nihilism and deterministic thoughts. Thinking you cannot change so why bother? This is precisely Konrad's pov. He only ever saw visions of the worst possible futures and thus thought it couldn't be changed so he didn't bother to change it and whenever someone showed him that he COULD change his fate he didn't want to believe it. In the end, his own nihilism and deterministic thoughts was a self fulfilling prophecy. There's also the moral lesson about a lack of parental guidance. When Konrad was found by the Emperor he never once got any help or guidance by his father. Instead he was left to his own devices.
Lord Konrad Curze/Night Haunter, after listening to this video and the book review, he was a tortured soul, the manner of his arrival to Nostramo, some may say "So what, didn't the Lion come to Caliban a Death World and run around killing and eating chaos monsters the second he came out of the pod!" Yes but the memories the Lion gained from the chaos creators was that the preyed on humanity. Curze when he consumed the people of Nostramo, he gained their memories that anybody can be victim of somebody else it was just a matter of time. Secondly, every other Primarchs as far as we know came to have some human contact, even Angron had the High-Riders. Taught to fight to survive not knowing his own inner power and strength and than altered by the Butcher's Nails. Curze had nobody to teach him anything, he had no reference point to base what was good, what was bad what was right what was wrong, he only had the emotions of the people of Nostramo which were in a very abysmal state to say the least. The pain of his arrival and being alone did damage him but not to the point of not being able to be repaired, enough of his "Good Side" was there to safe and rebuild on. When the Emperor came for him, Rogal Dorn and others were also there, Curze only reacted when he came face to face with the Emperor, and at that point the Emperor should have known the severity of Curze's mental damage and started the process to heal him, but the Emperor saw the efficiency of Curze methods and planned to use him to the utmost of Curze's own abilities and limits. To than end, Curze was the Emperor's best general, no hesitation to do what needed to be done no matter how deep and or wide the lake of blood that needed to be crossed was. To the point the the other Primarchs had deep reservations about Curze. If the Emperor had taken some time to help Curze and placed him under Sanguinius' care and tutelage who knows how he would have turned out, he may have been the leading Primarch against Horus! What I am trying to say is, let's not judge him to harshly, let's listen before passing a sentence, for out in dark edges many sons of Konrad still prowl waiting to show us first hand the lessons they learned from the Night Haunter himself
Konrad Curze, who's tragedy is that he could only see a giant looming butthole in the future. And by the way, another case of Emperor not bothering to fix his son, even though in this case it'd be enough to give him a clue about how prophecies work. Probably a good education in the history and practices of jurisprudence too, if he's not too busy to arrange for tutors?
@@nelthrysulairi3778 You know, the more i learn about Emps's treatment of primarchs the more i start to wonder if Emps is a victim of a Dunning Kruger effect, specifically the second clause("If it's trivial for me to do, then it's no big deal for other people too")
@@nelthrysulairi3778 How long would it take for the Emperor to study his son last seen as an embryo in a tube, then write up an essay on the subject that is this particular primarch's hangup, and also give him a list of books for further education? I think just-another-fucking-ork-infested-planet could've waited a couple of months.
@@nelthrysulairi3778 I'm not talking about making them into decent human beings, but mitigating their flaws so those flaws won't interfere with the roles they were supposed to fulfill. Lorgar, for example, would be perfeclty happy to do his job if Emps told him the real reason behind Imperial Truth and why he needs to eradicate all traces of the old faith, in fact his zealotry would be ideal for the task. Each planet he brings to compliance would be another blow against the awfull and blasphemous Pantheon, and he'd probably killed both Kor Phaeron and Erebus as soon as they tried to start any shenanigans. Kurze, on the other hand, lacked 2 basic things - knowledge of the intricacies of justice systems, and understanding of the way prophecies can mess with you and become self-fulfilling. Not his fault by the way, he wasn't raised by adoptive parents and therefore recieved no education or experience of social interaction. He'd be better off if he was adopted by a hive gang. Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20.
@@nelthrysulairi3778 @Cloning: Well, as far as I am informed, cloning in W40k has only been "successful" when done by the followers of Chaos, and even those cases only with a very lenient definition of success. Taking into account the general view of: "If you clone it, it'll go horribly wrong sooner rather than later" I understand not wishing to clone a being revered as a literal god. Also, cloning a god? Preposterous!
To be fair, Rowboat's ideas are actually sensible, he's just a pompous arse about it, the lore about the Ultrasmurfs has not helped with this. I absolutely loved how he shot back at Angron calling him out.
Personally, I hope arch doesn't spend the entire video insulting Gulimian. Because there is too much of that. I want to see a actual critique of guiliman instead of just passing him off as a ultrasmurf
You forgot the best line from Vulcan's battle with Curze when he goes to teleport away. "You forget something, Brother. It is ALSO a hammer." And then beats him with it. ^^'
Lorgar Bearer of the Word That depends on wether the other Night Lords would not immediately make like Abaddon when he pulled the whole “You’re not my REAL dad.” routine with the Horus clone Fabulous Bill and the Emprah’s Kiddos cooked up. Really, I think the percentage that got the hint like Talos that Konrad despised his legion would decline to follow a facsimile of their Primarch, as are the percentage who view chaos worship as essentially a more lucrative form of being a criminal, just like on Nostramo. There are bound to be a few who have Blood Angels Tier daddy issues, though a few might also sign up just out of a desire to see the legion reunited.
You missed the third option - ignore him. "Just another chaos lord, meh. We have plenty of those already" Given the opportunity, though, i think they would stab the shit out ot the clone, night lords love stabbing things and they didn't like the original that much anyway.
@@LethargicGM Depends of how much he remembers. Also don't forget that cloned primarch is inferior to the real deal, probably because some super secret magic hoodoo Emps cast on the embryos of the original 21 is missing. For example, i doubt a clone would be able to stand up to the Grandpa Smurf like Kurze did in his prime, nor is it likely that he could cut the daemon who pulled him into the warp into absolute ribbons.
I know you've said before you didn't like the original video you did on konrad, but honestly it one of my favourites. Okay the sound quality isn't as good back then as what you do now, but the narration is still class
It would be interesting to see a book series made in a hypothetical universe where Horus turns chaos away on Davin and the emperors plan comes to fruition. We could see what it would be like if these characters didn’t turn to chaos and how they would deal with the crusade being over. How they would do in their appointed roles after the galaxy is conquered.
I'd also like to see this. Alhough I can't help but think, whatever the end result of the great crusade, the post crusade admin was doomed to fail at some point.
Lorgar had already decided on his course at that point. Even if Horus rejected Chaos, Lorgar would likely have still gone ahead with his rebellion, probably with Fulgrim, who was already corrupted by the Laer blade, and at least Angron and Mortarion, who the Emperors poor people skills had already alienated, also Perturabo, who was bitter and resentful, and Kurze, who was insane too. The Horus Heresy would still have happened, but it would have been the Lorgar Heresy, the only thing that would change was the Son's of Horus would have remained Loyalist.
I like how you said 40K is a universe that shows the things the way they are. That is exactly what Konrad Curze is. The Night Haunter is Batman as he would actually be. Someone who genuinely believes in Justice and Order and uses fear as a weapon and who has seen so much shit, who has put his hand so deep into the filth and muck it is hard to tell him apart from the criminals and monsters he fight.
@Hayden Nelson I think that's supposed to be a depiction of Konrad's inner desire to be a good boy and do right rather than one of the Emperor. As in the image he is holding a sword with the symbol of justice on it, something Konrad was made for as we learned in the video.
Angron is a very complicated character, on one hand he is utterly tragic in the nails and being stripped away from his family at the last moment, on the other hand he was all too happy to pass that same fate onto his sons and as Rowboat so elegantly put it he enslaved himself to his rage and bitterness, clinging to his past like a mad fanatic and doing the same and worse of what was shoveled onto him by his slave masters onto the innocent masses of the galaxy.
If Angron had tried just once to be a good person, or even showed care for the greater good of humanity insure he would work better. However, as it comes he is literally just a crybaby who throws a tantrum whenever he doesn't get what he wants. HOWEVER. arch should do a 1 or more video of something similar to this, I don't mind the occasional jab but he needs to be professional which I hope for the best but prep for the worst
Whut?! _Arch is thinking about covering what the (traitor) Primarchs could be in the side of good?_ Is Arch going to cover *_Zahariel's Roboutian Heresy?_* If so, even for a short segment, this is a good one. I mean, by the Emperor, Zahariel's AU stories of: -. *_Konrad Curze, the King of the Night, Lord of Justice, the most humane of all primarchs;_* -. *_Perturabo, the humble genius and the praetorian of Terra;_* -. Most importantly, *_Angron, Lord of the Red Sands, the Breaker of Chains, the bro-est of all the primarchs;_* are nothing short of inspiring. If you are thinking about covering them, Arch, I am very much appreciated it!
This left me thinking of the common fallacy of judging oneself differently than way we judge others. The perspective of another could have helped Konrad with this, but he was always alone.
Me: Having just got home from work and looked at a few starship trooper memes his friends posted. And then sees the new Konrad Kurze revisit. Also me: 'Would you like to flay more?'
well, one teacher I had in college sometimes allowed students to re-hand in assignments in order to improve their mark, he just needed both versions to compare.
Hear me, whoever Dark Gods who dares harken to my prayers! Let Arch be given the wisdom and fortitude to do all the other Primarch vids with such passion, and I shall be your servant for eternity.
I really feel that this video is more of a second part than a remake. The first one talked mainly about his rise to power in nostramo and not that much about his life during the crusade. This video does the opposite narrating mainly his life after he was found by Big E.
Purple_Praetorian The Emperor didnet have a gf, nor did the Primarchs. You are finnaly free! Now go and lift heavy thinks and become the next Primarch!
This will be a great series, although some of them are still really lacking a decent background. I'm kind of shocked they haven't fleshed out some in the Heresy series yet, like Dorn or the Khan.
I think the most underrated one is Manus. Is it because he died very early? Is it that he is such a dislikeable character that none wanted to deal with him? I don't know, but he still is one of the loyal primarchs and he desrves better. Additionally, I never fully understood why Mortarion became heretic? Was it all because big E KSed him in Barbarus by killing his father?
@@johnchatzis3998 For Mortarion there doesn't seem to be a sole reason for him joining Horus but the big ones are: -The Emperor killing his father instead of Mortarion doing it -Thinking the Emperor and the Imperial Truth were hypocritical -Extreme dislike of psykers (like the Emperor) -Extreme might makes right mentality which would cause him to dislike the Emperor giving political power to normal humans
@@elysiankentarchy1531 yeah they all seem legit and thank you friend. It's just that his side of story is not thoroughly developed imo. I have read all the novels until Vulkan Lives and I have noticed a lack of character development like in the case of Manus although Manus is even worse. Perhaps in Scars or the Path of Heaven or in Burried Dagger we get more insight of Mortarion's mind
I love Sangunius , but Konrad is so deep a character and interesting . Btw those that read the book did anybody notice when he says to Sevetar that Sevetar will die in the " Outer dark " those that sound familiar to anyone
I've just watched the whole video from beginning to end and I've got go say this was by far the BEST video on warhammer 40k lore that I've seen. You've demonstrated a very strong understanding of Konrad, his legion and how it all could have been different. Bravo.
I always wondered why you never added the konrad curze video to a primarch playlist... I understand now, and I have seen the light of Konrad's gestation capsule burning in the atmosphere. I have high hopes for the many videos to come :D
He hasn't changed his user name for a few years now, much like mine (kahn fan here). Hes one of the only youtube comment section people I can remember. Him and Sultan.
>Live on Nostramo >Fear the Night Haunter >Don't do crime >Live an honest life without causing crime >Lover gets killed "that killer is fucked" >goes back to life
I've lived around people with various mental illnesses throughout my life and really I think the book is genuinely great at portraying mental illness and the descent of it as it continues.
Truly a beautiful remake, Arch, thank you! I still find elements of the original amusing in how they are worded (i.e. the Superman dynamic, ha), and it would be a tragedy to take it down, I hope you keep both incarnations up. I have read a few fanfictions, that have the fallen Primarchs as the protagonists and the loyal Primarchs as antagonists, swapping their allegiance. Including a point where insane Vampire-Sanguinius kills Horus, after having visions of Horus killing him, and replaces Fulgrim in the cloning idea wanting his brother (Horus) to love and join him rather than reject him. Some of the plot points include; With Angron, it was an interesting AU, where he was instead adopted by the Nobility then led a revolt against the leaders and freed the slaves. Konrad was sane, had been adopted by a woman who tragically died and freed of terrible visions by the Emperor's arrival. Sometimes he played "pica-boo" pranks on his Legion and serfs, when they went looking for his random sleeping places, and hadn't had serious visions until the approaching of the Heresy which he told Fulgrim who also remained loyal. Fulgrim and Konrad were close, Fulgrim believed in Konrad, and Fulgrim mourned Konrad's death at the hands of Vulcan at the Drop Site Massacre. On a side note: Apparently, according to new sources, it is hinted that the Lost Primarchs were actually divided, one apparently fell and the other was loyal, but as we've seen with the intentions of Konrad and Alpharius Omegon... loyalty is a questionable point. What is good and just, what is an act of loyalty, changes by person. Although, in the new Cawl book they did reveal one of the Lost Legions through a reflection seen on Pharos by Primaris, wearing original Gray Armour and 2/5 of them being Psykers. I live with the theory that the Second Legion were built to combat the warp and other such entities, so I am leaning that this was a cameo of the Second Legion.
If the Pirmarchs landing in their home world could be described as rolling a d20 and the higher the roll the more well suited a world is to that Primarch Gulliman rolled a 20 Konrad's die rolled in to a garbage disposal, and was a 1
Nobody cares all they see is arch saying fuck remakes/remasteres, then blam, we get kurze 2 Electric boogaloo. His opinion really doesn't matter when he explicitly says the contents is made for us the fans and we have spoken, by raising it too 2nd most viewed video of his. From the outset it just looks like a cynical cash grab, doing exactly what he berated and disdains the most from the gaming industry.
@@empyrealcultist1992 if it is better than the first one Will you eat your words? Ps the Reason peapole complain about remakes is that they generally are shit. Se ghostbusters 2016.
Have you ever heard of the tragedy of Primarch Konrad the sad? Legend has it Konrad was a dark primarch of the emperor, so powerful and scary he could even influence Nostramo to stop crime. He could actually save the population from crime? The dark side of ethics is a pathway to many acts some consider to be unnatural. What happened to him? He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his righteousness, which eventually he did. Unfortunately, he taught his legion everything he knew, but they were corrupted, and he was assassinated in his sleep. Ironic. He could stop crime, but became a criminal himself. is it possible to learn this thesis? Not from a loyalist.
@@lamb_link I really hate how all the lore makes Perturabo a whiny bitch, when he has the potential to be the most interesting Primarch. A logic driven, self-sacrificing primarch whose whole shtick is that all he wants is to build beautiful cities and architecture and all hes allowed to do is destroy it. He's the one who built the Colosseum on Nicaea, making it a gorgeous place for contests of skills, only for it to be used a grand total of one time to censure one of the few brothers he got along with, Magnus. He is simultaneously someone who believes everyone should just quietly get to their work without complaining or doing it for glory, yet he wants to be recognized and loved for the horrible, torturous sieges he's forced to wage for the Imperium.
Been going through the Heresy following along with your videos as I complete them. I just so happened to get the new Konrad book and finish it in time to see this video. And your original video on him was the first of yours I saw and got me into 40k
One of my three favorite Primarchs, the tragedy of Konrad I believe was one of pure bad luck, any other world but Nostramo and his fate would've been different. There was no light on Nostramo, literally and metaphorically, it conditioned him, he could never see the light in humanity, only the dark. His visions showed him the darkest path fate could take and he believed that was absolute, for on Nostramo there was no virtue, thus how could the common man be virtuous? The only virtue he found was in his fellow Primarchs and the Emperor, this stood at odds with who he was and this created in him a sense of self loathing so strong he couldn't countenance it. Any world but Nostramo.
@@1110-s1t if you swapped Angron with Konrad? I still stand that yes he would. Konrad's MO was stealth and foresight, unlike the brute force of Angron, so it would be conceivable that he could avoid the nails. Falling that however, the poor of Nuceria were a far cry from the cruel ruling elite and if he went down the same path as Angron he would potentially see that, and the Night Lords drawn from Nuceria would not be rotten to the core, avoiding the tarnishing of his legacy like Nostramo. If he received the nails there would be no justice in inflicting the nails on others, so the legion that came from that world would be one free from the nails bite. In addition, I think Angron would take well to Nostramo, brute force his way to the top and turn out far better then he did on Nuceria. The eldar wouldn't have shown up to attack him and if they did he would escape, either way avoid the slavery and see Nuceria for what it was, fight for justice for the masses. Applying his tactics instead of Angron's and the nobles of Nuceria would be either dead or changed in short order. Finally the nails typically overloaded psykers, no telling what that would do to a primarch that was also a psyker like Curze, so that is a little harder to speculate on.
@@AsSaSsIn200706050403 a much more interesting response than I expected admittedly. I hadn't considered the psyker aspect of the nails, but that's a good point. What I was thinking was the nails would work, and inflame the split personality issue which I took as a given part of Kurzes nature, and but it reacts with his physiology differently, exacerbating his need for justice of the bloody variety. Ending up with a similarly psychotic Kurze without the nagging of his prophetic visions. No doubt Angron would do better on Nostromo, your assessment on that front is basically what I would expect. Assuming no nails Kurze, I think gladiator him is tricky enough to conquer Nuceria and he becomes the son he was meant to be. Thanks for that. :)
@@1110-s1t I agree with the case you make for the nails, I feel that would be the most likely outcome, though my inner optimist would hope that it would overload his prophetic visions, forcing him to master them, a the Night Lords headed by Konrad with fully realized prophetic visions would be unstoppable. Either way they would probably burn through him faster then they did Angron, but with a determination to spread compliance before his end came the Night Lord's would be a legion to be reckoned with. no problem, it's been a pleasure getting to to theorize about my favorite primarch
Vulkan during his capture is a pretty obvious physical metaphor for hope. The way he acts, the fact of his immortality, and his association with fire (hope usually associated with a spark or flame), all point to the Emperor intending this to be his role, perhaps even to counter the fear of Konrad.
My personal belief is Kurze, if he had spared the boy, his legion more noble and loyal to the Emperor. That he could have formed a bond with the Angel, maybe both could learn of each other's perceived fates. And maybe the angelic Primarch would have made such an impression that Kurze would seek to avert the oncoming fate of his brother. I think that Kurze would have been on Terra and boarded with the Emperor. That he would be the first to confront Horus. That Sanguinius would have arrived to see his closest brother murder another whom he pitied and perhaps wished to protect, and this could have filled the Angel with such wrath that he may well have struck Horus down in his fury, but been unwilling to kill him, so he would die just the same. But it would be a broken, wounded Horus the Emperor faced, not the mighty champion of the Powers Undivided. The 41st millennium could have been very different indeed, if only Kurze had made one decision differently.
And this is why I follow your lore, and telling of the old lore and the truth of human psychology and mental capability as well as adaptability. Thank you for making such an in-depth look at lore and psychology in both human and inter-speciesall thinking.
@Leo Nidas Hold the presses, 22? Great, just when I thought I knew it all, here's facts ruining my evening. Time to look up The First Primarch, hopefully she was a woman.
We need to remember that most likely no other primarch other than Vulkan could have stood up to Konrad's torture for that long simply because of his pure love for humanity and absolute will. Edit: except maybe Sanguinius
Disappointing to think that the night lords could have just been a chapter of lawyers instead of psychos. Imagine for a moment a space marine in a suit and tie with a briefcase just staring down a heretic, before listing off his crimes and then smashing his head in screaming guilty.
"And that your honor is why I not only need to crush him, but I had to sit here and let him know why, I rest the defendant."
So the Night Lords were basically supposed to be 40k version of Judge Dredd ?
well the ultra smurfs are all diplowmats
Isn't that what the Adeptus Arbites for though?
Dogmelter42 On a planetary level, and only as far as planetary law goes. The Night Lords would’ve been a galactic force that would hunt the criminals down no matter how far they ran, and wouldn’t waste time with due process and just slaughter the guilty.
Vulcan sees Konrad.
Vulcan: I wish to pet this creature.
Actually I think Vulcan wants to mercy hug/crush Conrad?
Vulcan, do not boop that merry torture enthusiast.
I wanna boop the snoot
@@jeanpierrewesthof928 no booping!
@@carna-9501 Booooooooooooooooooooooop
I think my favorite bit that about Konrad is the scene where he's talking with Sanguinius and Sanguinius shows him that the future can be changed and he shits his pants in horror as he realizes that the only reason things we're going the way they were was because he didn't really try.
Konrad: *"...ah beans."*
Both experienced visions of horrible things. Sanguinius tried to change the future for the better and Night Haunter just accepted them as fact. Probably part of the reason why he felt that he deserved the death that he was getting.
I love how the Primarchs are the individual embodiments of both mankind's greatest traits and greatest flaws.
If they only had our good qualities, then they would have never fallen and 40K would not be grimdark.
@@robertnelson9599 no that’s just the thing. They were perfect. They had no flaw (at birth at least) and their need to be perfect and the striving to remain so in the eyes of the emperor, who did favor horus more than the rest, that laid the foundation for the heresy. They were perfect, and yet the person they were made to serve saw one of them as more perfect than the rest. All the other terrible parenting the emperor did caused the resentment to form, allowing the heresy. The competition in combination with the terrible parenting allowed the chaos gods to influence them.
@@robertnelson9599 volcan for example can be too good (not craking nigth hunters skull when he could) even or sweates sun cakes, have flaws thas awasome of war hammer
They're Greek gods with ornate armor and big, BIG, guns.
@@notinspectorgadget pete bare handed not even ripped off,but dismantled the armour of one of his iron warriors, while the dude was wearing it, im surprized with both, pete unwieldy strength to crush ceramite like it was clay, and the soldier for not getting knocked out due to the nerves on his black carapace basicaly making the dude agonize
Maybe if psycho space Batman chose to save Robin instead of ripping out his spine, maybe his fate would've been different...
Next thing you know all the Night Lords are dressed in Red and Yellow and Green
konrad was a fool, fabius knows that love not fear is the strongest of chains
I had the same in mind when i saw the comment *psycho space batman* 🤣
Well, that was the point of Robin in Batman mythos..... give something human to nurture to the creature of the cave. Something to keep some perspective, some humanity, instead of just insane obsesión. In the brutal setting of the 40k, the need for and the consequences of lacking that kind of things, specially when you have great power...... are specially awful.
I agree... maybe theres an alternate universe where he spares Robin?
*Gestation pod crashes*
Inhabitants: "Wow, that was bad, but at least we've had the worst of it."
*Chaos Gods audibly giggling in the background*
"Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner." - The Man, the Legend: Tywin Lannister
How is it relevant? Tywin was talking about an assassination/massacre. Or more aptly, the betrayal of the Freys, not only to The King in the North but also to the unspoken code of honor everyone in Westeros abided by.
He had a point, but that has nothing to do with Curze.
Benersan the Bread It is relaxant though. It's because arch at the beginning of the video said how Konrad put the lives of the many over the lives of the few which is related to this quote.
@@BenersantheBread The relevance is is that Konrad and Tywin are both fans of using dirty, dishonorable, even cruel methods to avoid or reduce the horrors of all-out war. Likewise, they also share a lack of empathy which blinds them to the long-term implications and consequences of their actions.
@@BenersantheBread The point is, that Curze preferred to wage war in a way his brothers called "dishonourable" . The Night Lords conquered planets by killing a thousand people, brutally massacring them, flaying them alive etc. Other Legions, like the Space Wolves, World Eaters, even the Ultramarines, conquered planets in open battles, what was supposedly "honourable". But their way of waging war killed houndreds of thousands, if not millions, so much more people, but they nonetheless scolded Curze for his tactics. Here the quote relates to this. "Killing a dozen people at a dinner" refers to the Night Lords tactics, while "kill 10,000 men in battle" to the tactics of his brothers.
@@BenersantheBread Kurze would do the same thing.
_"Who's planet was quite literally dominated by giant man eating zombie monsters..."_
Arch can you pretty please make a comprehensive breakdown for the lore of Mortarion.
Just add to the list of things Arch promises to do this century, alongside videos on:
Clan Pestilens, Cathay, The Hung, and any Primarch that is not Curze or Perturabo.
@@robertnelson9599 lol the hung
After Sept 27th we may get that video....
He is actually more like The Punisher than Batman......
Corax is The Batman of 40K........
Bad Guy: Who are you?!
The Ravenlord: I'm Corax
No, Corvus Corax is more 40K Nightwing, similar to 40K Batman (both using stealth) but different in application.
Bad Guy: Wh...who are you?
Konrad: I AM THE NIGHT!
Your wrong he's judge Dredd gone rogue.
Nanananananananananana *BIRDMAN, BIRDMAN!*
"Have you ever heard of the tragedy of Konrad the sad? It is an old legend"
I thought not. It's not a story the Inquisition would tell you.
@@kitchenjail3546 "Strike me down,Sanguinius. Let the hate strengthen you."
Referencing shit wars is heresy
@@some_shitposting_idiot3023 nah m8, only the sequels and solo: asws are heresy
@@kitchenjail3546 no all of shit wars
So long as the original video remains up, I have no problems with this. *_BRING ON THE LORE BABY!_*
Lore baby konrad Kurse gets plenty of lore from eating his victims
@@RadarLeon ...Only now do I realize how apt that statement was. Thank you for that.
@@RadarLeon "When the shadows start speaking Nostraman."
Yup
I wonder how new born primarch looks like. Imagine giant toddler running around slaughtering criminals.
thank you for the nightmare
Fucking hell
giant *buff* toddlers...
Check out how the Orthodox Church paints the baby Jesus.
Greek Orthodox baby Jesus makes the baby primarchs look like normal babies.
*Baby Konrad throws a basketball hoop (like the vine)*
*UNHOLY SCREAMING BEGINS*
"You could have made me ruthless but instead you made me evil"
Konrad saying this is heartbreaking, it paints a picture that what he wanted to be fell away to the night haunter.
To my mind, Konrad was *never* allowed to become who he was supposed to be. Aside from Angron, he's the worst Primarch and pretty close to the weakest, especially in the light of who he *could* have been.
To me, that's tragedy. That's sad.
Konrad *could* have become an avatar of justice and law and righteousness.
Instead he became the Punisher with Superman's powers. A nightmare. A horrifying, unbelievably scary tyranny that you could never, ever escape from or change.
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq the weakest?
@@Sevatar_VIIIth Bearing in mind, of course, that every Primarch is a nastier customer than any normal human could ever, ever, ever be.
My point is that Konrad's potential, much like Angron's, was unfortunately wasted in his psychosis, paranoia and self-hatred.
@@GoodAvatar-ut5pq while I agree his potential was imo the greatest of all his brothers, Konrad was nowhere near the weakest of them. I may be missunderstading what you mean when you say weak? In a physical fight Konrad is in the top 3 (imho) at the very least top 4 of all the Primarchs. Again, maybe I'm missunderstading your meaning.
@@Sevatar_VIIIth Right, and I don't know if I'm explaining it properly, because every Primarch is one nasty customer.
My argument is that unlike Sanguinius or the Lion or Vulkan, Konrad never got the opportunity to really... Be human.
It stunted him in many ways.
He was more or less born into a lightless underworld cannibalizing quasi-innocent people. He didn't *grow up* learning about right and wrong and the law, he simply ate the wicked and learned how to spread terror as he went along.
In other words, I think that Konrad's story would be a lot less tragic and wasted if he had ever had a mentor or someone capable of handling his psychic psychosis.
Old quote: "Think of Konrad Curze as the kind of guy Judge Dredd would say is going too far to enforce the law."
aka only slightly better then judge death idea of justice and crime
I can imagine that the emperor designed him with a split personality for his role as the perfect judge
One for the defender and one for the accuser, which would argue both positions so he would decide the case most fairly
What a *FASCINATING* idea, and in W40K? That's not outside the realm of possibility.
I could actually *see* a lawyer Konrad, ya know? All spooky-looking/beautiful and jacked and 9 feet tall in a business suit, arguing both positions with perfect understanding on camera and laying out the law for all to witness, and then laying down the perfect judgment and citing 2 decades worth of prior conviction sentences like a combination of Judge Dredd and Judge Judy.
Or Cardassians, if you like Star Trek, which I do.
His story genuinely saddens me. The way he had lived, and how he slowly destroyed himself, whether intentional or not. But I feel like this is a story of what can happen to someone if there was never any love in their lives. He had no friends to share experiences and understand with, no family to show care or support. Let alone help him understand the complexities of man. even when he was losing his mind, he still tried to redeem himself with his death. His life was a tragedy, but one worth remembering.
Totally agree with guys who liked the old Konrad more, because his actions were calculated, his mind was cold as he followed the ideas of "the end justifies the means" and "sacrifice few to save many" and only after faced his own judgement without cheap "split personality" excuse. Old Konrad was a man, new is really more like an emotional child with tragic fate, some kind of Raskolnikov of 40k. Still good, but it was better.
The last part about the Old Konrád facing his judgement without a cheap excuse.
Old Konrad also wasn't needlessly cruel, he was cruel to complete an objective and not to satisfy a craving unlike his newer version
@@tenebrisnarud9738 More GW and Black Library fundamentally misunderstanding 40K and the characters therein.
damn you made a dostoyevsky comparison to wh40k. i really think this fandom is filled with a lot of intellectuals naturally. at least the OG 40k lovers are for sure. i also see large new waves of ppl coming to 40k bc of lore videos and i love it
I think Konrad essentially just being a broken child fits with the theme of most primarchs though tbh. One common thread among most primarchs, especially the traitors, was horrible upbringings and lack of love from a parental figure
The best part is that his original video on Konrad is the second most viewed video on his channel, slightly behind his Necron video.
Wait, really? Though it was about IoM or something more commonly known
@@yochaiwyss3843 it was probably Halloween then.
Nowadays its 3rd, behind Necrons and Krieg
Cvvg🙏vvi🙏v🙏vgvovcv🙏🙂♥️😴😑😑
@@tuskinradar8688 everything but the enemy is behind the death corps of krieg, bayonets, shovels and rifles at the ready at all times *excited gas mask noises*
People of Nostramo: *exist*
Konrad Curze: "This is not a negotiation. The sentence is (a fate worse than) death."
That last picture of Konrad as a righteous judge brought a tear to my eye, what a great man he could have been...
To summarize:
The original Konrad served as an example of what happens when law becomes divorce from morality. His mind breaking from the stress of his unethical actions and his attempts to justify himself using the logic of "the ends justify the means," but ultimately his salvation came from assisted sucide in a vain attempt at repentance for his crimes against humanity.
The new Konrad exists as an example of what happens when a child gains too much too quickly. All his knowledge lacked wisdom or experience to temper it, thus he became increasingly irrational. The splitting of his mind represents his attempts to preserve his innocence, but by imprisoning his humanity, he allows a callous lawful evil monster to walk the universe; searching for a hunter to put himself down. Eventually, the monster gives up and the child awakens to the horrors of his actions and escapes any consequences through death.
In my opinion, I prefer the old one to the new, as the old one serves as a cautionary tale about the law. While the new one, simply exists to be a tragic monster; Alucard from Hellsing, for example, demonstrated this concept and was executed to a better degree than the new Konrad. This lack of a moral lesson, along with the change in when he dies, just doesn't satisfy me.
I agree. The original is a more compelling story.
However, I will say the new Konrad is very much in line with most of the primarchs, and even the space marines. Commonly childish, and irrational. Often thinking themselves invincible, and better then others. The tale of all of them is commonly of what happens when you gain to much to fast, and scant few of the primarchs, and even less of the space marines manage to temper themselves with wisdom.
I disagree. There's many moral takeaways. One is the dangers of being victim to nihilism and deterministic thoughts. Thinking you cannot change so why bother? This is precisely Konrad's pov. He only ever saw visions of the worst possible futures and thus thought it couldn't be changed so he didn't bother to change it and whenever someone showed him that he COULD change his fate he didn't want to believe it. In the end, his own nihilism and deterministic thoughts was a self fulfilling prophecy. There's also the moral lesson about a lack of parental guidance. When Konrad was found by the Emperor he never once got any help or guidance by his father. Instead he was left to his own devices.
Have you ever watched Yu Yu Hakusho? More specifically the third arc Chapter Black?
Lord Konrad Curze/Night Haunter, after listening to this video and the book review, he was a tortured soul, the manner of his arrival to Nostramo, some may say "So what, didn't the Lion come to Caliban a Death World and run around killing and eating chaos monsters the second he came out of the pod!" Yes but the memories the Lion gained from the chaos creators was that the preyed on humanity. Curze when he consumed the people of Nostramo, he gained their memories that anybody can be victim of somebody else it was just a matter of time. Secondly, every other Primarchs as far as we know came to have some human contact, even Angron had the High-Riders. Taught to fight to survive not knowing his own inner power and strength and than altered by the Butcher's Nails. Curze had nobody to teach him anything, he had no reference point to base what was good, what was bad what was right what was wrong, he only had the emotions of the people of Nostramo which were in a very abysmal state to say the least. The pain of his arrival and being alone did damage him but not to the point of not being able to be repaired, enough of his "Good Side" was there to safe and rebuild on. When the Emperor came for him, Rogal Dorn and others were also there, Curze only reacted when he came face to face with the Emperor, and at that point the Emperor should have known the severity of Curze's mental damage and started the process to heal him, but the Emperor saw the efficiency of Curze methods and planned to use him to the utmost of Curze's own abilities and limits. To than end, Curze was the Emperor's best general, no hesitation to do what needed to be done no matter how deep and or wide the lake of blood that needed to be crossed was. To the point the the other Primarchs had deep reservations about Curze. If the Emperor had taken some time to help Curze and placed him under Sanguinius' care and tutelage who knows how he would have turned out, he may have been the leading Primarch against Horus! What I am trying to say is, let's not judge him to harshly, let's listen before passing a sentence, for out in dark edges many sons of Konrad still prowl waiting to show us first hand the lessons they learned from the Night Haunter himself
I mean the Lion is an actual psychopath.
Conrad is a product of his situation. The Lion chose to be a genocidal, dishonourable monster.
Konrad Curze, who's tragedy is that he could only see a giant looming butthole in the future. And by the way, another case of Emperor not bothering to fix his son, even though in this case it'd be enough to give him a clue about how prophecies work. Probably a good education in the history and practices of jurisprudence too, if he's not too busy to arrange for tutors?
@@nelthrysulairi3778 You know, the more i learn about Emps's treatment of primarchs the more i start to wonder if Emps is a victim of a Dunning Kruger effect, specifically the second clause("If it's trivial for me to do, then it's no big deal for other people too")
@@nelthrysulairi3778 How long would it take for the Emperor to study his son last seen as an embryo in a tube, then write up an essay on the subject that is this particular primarch's hangup, and also give him a list of books for further education? I think just-another-fucking-ork-infested-planet could've waited a couple of months.
@@nelthrysulairi3778 I'm not talking about making them into decent human beings, but mitigating their flaws so those flaws won't interfere with the roles they were supposed to fulfill.
Lorgar, for example, would be perfeclty happy to do his job if Emps told him the real reason behind Imperial Truth and why he needs to eradicate all traces of the old faith, in fact his zealotry would be ideal for the task. Each planet he brings to compliance would be another blow against the awfull and blasphemous Pantheon, and he'd probably killed both Kor Phaeron and Erebus as soon as they tried to start any shenanigans.
Kurze, on the other hand, lacked 2 basic things - knowledge of the intricacies of justice systems, and understanding of the way prophecies can mess with you and become self-fulfilling. Not his fault by the way, he wasn't raised by adoptive parents and therefore recieved no education or experience of social interaction. He'd be better off if he was adopted by a hive gang.
Oh well, hindsight is always 20/20.
@@nelthrysulairi3778 I can agree with that
@@nelthrysulairi3778 @Cloning: Well, as far as I am informed, cloning in W40k has only been "successful" when done by the followers of Chaos, and even those cases only with a very lenient definition of success.
Taking into account the general view of: "If you clone it, it'll go horribly wrong sooner rather than later" I understand not wishing to clone a being revered as a literal god. Also, cloning a god? Preposterous!
Hey arch you should do Guilliman next i really want to hear all of the creative insults toward the ultra-smurfs
To be fair, Rowboat's ideas are actually sensible, he's just a pompous arse about it, the lore about the Ultrasmurfs has not helped with this. I absolutely loved how he shot back at Angron calling him out.
I would like to hear Arch's opinion on banging the space high elves
Personally, I hope arch doesn't spend the entire video insulting Gulimian. Because there is too much of that. I want to see a actual critique of guiliman instead of just passing him off as a ultrasmurf
That would be the only thing the smurfs would be good for
@@nightlock826 you know he would. Arch is oddly professional about providing information he just throws a lot of shade
"Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask their ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer."
-Javik, Mass Effect 3
Their answer would be the same no matter what you asked them. What matters to the dead?
You forgot the best line from Vulcan's battle with Curze when he goes to teleport away.
"You forget something, Brother. It is ALSO a hammer."
And then beats him with it. ^^'
before and after being mutilated and '' killed '' over thousand times by the latter.
without perpetaul crap and 1v1 oh boy...
Question for all the fans.
If a clone of Konrad was created do you think the Majority of Night Lords warbands would join him or try to kill him?
Lorgar Bearer of the Word
That depends on wether the other Night Lords would not immediately make like Abaddon when he pulled the whole “You’re not my REAL dad.” routine with the Horus clone Fabulous Bill and the Emprah’s Kiddos cooked up.
Really, I think the percentage that got the hint like Talos that Konrad despised his legion would decline to follow a facsimile of their Primarch, as are the percentage who view chaos worship as essentially a more lucrative form of being a criminal, just like on Nostramo. There are bound to be a few who have Blood Angels Tier daddy issues, though a few might also sign up just out of a desire to see the legion reunited.
You missed the third option - ignore him. "Just another chaos lord, meh. We have plenty of those already"
Given the opportunity, though, i think they would stab the shit out ot the clone, night lords love stabbing things and they didn't like the original that much anyway.
I think the clone would either kill himself, or attempt to hunt down his legion.
@@LethargicGM Depends of how much he remembers.
Also don't forget that cloned primarch is inferior to the real deal, probably because some super secret magic hoodoo Emps cast on the embryos of the original 21 is missing.
For example, i doubt a clone would be able to stand up to the Grandpa Smurf like Kurze did in his prime, nor is it likely that he could cut the daemon who pulled him into the warp into absolute ribbons.
@@Self-replicating_whatnot I'd say it depends on who makes the clone. If it's Fabius Bile who makes it, then I think a perfect clone can be made.
one day you'll do a Mortarion video.
One day.
I know you've said before you didn't like the original video you did on konrad, but honestly it one of my favourites. Okay the sound quality isn't as good back then as what you do now, but the narration is still class
same, was about to make that only to see someone had beat me to the punch.
Same
Agreed, and now I can enjoy it again😁
I agree, it wasn't an introduction to your channel but solidified my interests in you as a narrator
The best ever descriptiom was Arch's statement about rapey sharks with dildos in the Dark Elder video
It would be interesting to see a book series made in a hypothetical universe where Horus turns chaos away on Davin and the emperors plan comes to fruition. We could see what it would be like if these characters didn’t turn to chaos and how they would deal with the crusade being over. How they would do in their appointed roles after the galaxy is conquered.
I'd also like to see this. Alhough I can't help but think, whatever the end result of the great crusade, the post crusade admin was doomed to fail at some point.
I fully believe some primarchs, like Angron, were always going to rebel at some point
Lorgar had already decided on his course at that point.
Even if Horus rejected Chaos, Lorgar would likely have still gone ahead with his rebellion, probably with Fulgrim, who was already corrupted by the Laer blade, and at least Angron and Mortarion, who the Emperors poor people skills had already alienated, also Perturabo, who was bitter and resentful, and Kurze, who was insane too.
The Horus Heresy would still have happened, but it would have been the Lorgar Heresy, the only thing that would change was the Son's of Horus would have remained Loyalist.
I like how you said 40K is a universe that shows the things the way they are. That is exactly what Konrad Curze is. The Night Haunter is Batman as he would actually be. Someone who genuinely believes in Justice and Order and uses fear as a weapon and who has seen so much shit, who has put his hand so deep into the filth and muck it is hard to tell him apart from the criminals and monsters he fight.
If they ever met... it wouldn't end well for Batman. Curze considers stealing bread to feed starving children a capitol offense
me: lets go to bed early today
Arch: let me ruin this mans whole sleeping schedule
Are we all gonna ignore the swoll Emperor in the top left?! He looks like he just went to the gym and bench pressed the whole building!
He probably DID bench press a building. (Or two)
@Hayden Nelson I think that's supposed to be a depiction of Konrad's inner desire to be a good boy and do right rather than one of the Emperor. As in the image he is holding a sword with the symbol of justice on it, something Konrad was made for as we learned in the video.
Buffperor
He looks like whatever he wants. Wouldn't you?
Ah, I see someone has yet to read the Lectitio Divinatatus. It clearly states in Emperor 14-7, Get ripped my sons, or be heretics.
Konrads story is worthy of its own Netflix series.
Honestly most primarchs do tbf, I'd love a Netflix series detailing all of their lives
I think that the price the Emperor payed to create the Primarchs was that half of them would serve Chaos, with four of them serving a specific god.
Arch: uploads video about Konrad Kurze
Us: Hey, I’ve seen this one before!
Haven’t you done a perfect video of him already?
he didn't like it so he will redo it
He did, he also has it on record that he didn't like that video. I agree by the way, that video was shoddy.
It was a good video when he made it but needless to say Arch has got much better at his craft since then.
There are many possible Kurze videos, the first was one version; this is but another possible outcome.
I like the first video on him, but 2 videos are better than one on the night haunter.
I'd like Arch to do video on Papa Angron, but I feel he'd just slag him off as a disappointment to Big E... 😭
Angron is a very complicated character, on one hand he is utterly tragic in the nails and being stripped away from his family at the last moment, on the other hand he was all too happy to pass that same fate onto his sons and as Rowboat so elegantly put it he enslaved himself to his rage and bitterness, clinging to his past like a mad fanatic and doing the same and worse of what was shoveled onto him by his slave masters onto the innocent masses of the galaxy.
He is a miserable failure of a Primarch who has never achieved anything in his worthless little life.
If Angron had tried just once to be a good person, or even showed care for the greater good of humanity insure he would work better. However, as it comes he is literally just a crybaby who throws a tantrum whenever he doesn't get what he wants.
HOWEVER. arch should do a 1 or more video of something similar to this, I don't mind the occasional jab but he needs to be professional which I hope for the best but prep for the worst
A cross between the Hulk and Conan the Barbarian?
@@notsae66 that's Lorgar.
40k: It's not the batman we need but the batman we deserve.
Whut?!
_Arch is thinking about covering what the (traitor) Primarchs could be in the side of good?_
Is Arch going to cover *_Zahariel's Roboutian Heresy?_*
If so, even for a short segment, this is a good one.
I mean, by the Emperor, Zahariel's AU stories of:
-. *_Konrad Curze, the King of the Night, Lord of Justice, the most humane of all primarchs;_*
-. *_Perturabo, the humble genius and the praetorian of Terra;_*
-. Most importantly, *_Angron, Lord of the Red Sands, the Breaker of Chains, the bro-est of all the primarchs;_*
are nothing short of inspiring.
If you are thinking about covering them, Arch, I am very much appreciated it!
Nicky Penn Tuesday is the day of the taco.
It’s Friday you fucking heathen.
Traitor Corvus is the best Roboutian Primarch.
Prefer the Dornian heresy where they actually use the primarch’s characters without that much twists
As much as I know this will be excellent, part of me is wondering how many more years will go by before Arch covers a Primarch I like.
73
Venneroth sometime between next week and the heat death of the universe
@@theomnissiah-9120 Oh, come now.
What you really need to look out for is the big freeze.
@@theomnissiah-9120 But before or after Half LIfe 2 Episode 3?
I find the stories of Kurze and Angron the most fascinating. The whole broken or stolen destiny and broken demigods.
This left me thinking of the common fallacy of judging oneself differently than way we judge others. The perspective of another could have helped Konrad with this, but he was always alone.
I wonder if the Dark Elves see Curze as some kind of a 'Art of Pain' Teacher ........
Me: Having just got home from work and looked at a few starship trooper memes his friends posted. And then sees the new Konrad Kurze revisit.
Also me: 'Would you like to flay more?'
You cant just hand in the same assignment twice arch
well, one teacher I had in college sometimes allowed students to re-hand in assignments in order to improve their mark, he just needed both versions to compare.
My Geography teacher in highschool accepted my assignmemt thrice, though I did tell her I wanted to redo it.
Arch proved you wrong
Konrad Curze: I am Judge, Jury, and most importantly, Executioner. The verdict? Guilty. The sentence? *_Death._*
Hear me, whoever Dark Gods who dares harken to my prayers! Let Arch be given the wisdom and fortitude to do all the other Primarch vids with such passion, and I shall be your servant for eternity.
fucking heretic, only the Man-Emperor of Mankind can grant such a boon.
Dio didn't you become a god once already and before that reject your humanity?
@@barrybend7189 Heck, they'll grant me more power and I'll be a Chaos Demi-God which is far superior than a Demon Primarch.
@@fatguyfrommy8421 youre still geting ora'd by jotaro lmao
You thought this was a lore video but it was *ME! DIO!!!*
I really feel that this video is more of a second part than a remake. The first one talked mainly about his rise to power in nostramo and not that much about his life during the crusade. This video does the opposite narrating mainly his life after he was found by Big E.
I was watching the original video this morning, my girlfriend of one year broke up with me acouple hours ago.
Thank you, Arch, I really needed this.
Strength to you, brother. The Emperor Protects!
Purple_Praetorian The Emperor didnet have a gf, nor did the Primarchs. You are finnaly free! Now go and lift heavy thinks and become the next Primarch!
This will be a great series, although some of them are still really lacking a decent background. I'm kind of shocked they haven't fleshed out some in the Heresy series yet, like Dorn or the Khan.
They did a great job with the Khan in the story "Warhawk of Chogoris"
I think the most underrated one is Manus. Is it because he died very early? Is it that he is such a dislikeable character that none wanted to deal with him? I don't know, but he still is one of the loyal primarchs and he desrves better. Additionally, I never fully understood why Mortarion became heretic? Was it all because big E KSed him in Barbarus by killing his father?
John Chatzis kind of seems that way.
@@johnchatzis3998 For Mortarion there doesn't seem to be a sole reason for him joining Horus but the big ones are:
-The Emperor killing his father instead of Mortarion doing it
-Thinking the Emperor and the Imperial Truth were hypocritical
-Extreme dislike of psykers (like the Emperor)
-Extreme might makes right mentality which would cause him to dislike the Emperor giving political power to normal humans
@@elysiankentarchy1531 yeah they all seem legit and thank you friend. It's just that his side of story is not thoroughly developed imo. I have read all the novels until Vulkan Lives and I have noticed a lack of character development like in the case of Manus although Manus is even worse. Perhaps in Scars or the Path of Heaven or in Burried Dagger we get more insight of Mortarion's mind
"Everyone within my tummy, nobody outside my tummy, nobody against my tummy!"
-Konrad Curze, vore enthusiast
the fascist stomach
Burn loyalist lol
Konrad Curze: The UA-cam TOS, made flesh
God I want a vid on Angron already
would be amazing
You speak of the origin and his fall, rather than his action on a certain hive world?
I love Sangunius , but Konrad is so deep a character and interesting . Btw those that read the book did anybody notice when he says to Sevetar that Sevetar will die in the " Outer dark " those that sound familiar to anyone
Ave Dominus Nox!
:)
"For terror!"
"Uh.. it's pronounced Terra.."
Hydra Dominatus!
wtf looking at picture of konrad with the electric claws, I could swear he didn't have blood on them or his face until one moment he did
I've just watched the whole video from beginning to end and I've got go say this was by far the BEST video on warhammer 40k lore that I've seen. You've demonstrated a very strong understanding of Konrad, his legion and how it all could have been different. Bravo.
Arch: complains about lack of originality and berates remaster/remakes constantly.
Also Arch: Konrad Curze 2 Electric Boogaloo
We only hate bad reboots.
40k Theories does this alot as well, he makes updated videos because new information has been released. Just like here.
@@constrainedanacronysm1370 40k theories doesn't complain incessantly about remastered and remakes though what's your point 🤔
First one was more of a recapping of the lore. This one is more of a character study
@@aitchisondaniel we? Arch certainly doesn't take your view he is against and berates all of them down to the conceptual idea
I always wondered why you never added the konrad curze video to a primarch playlist...
I understand now, and I have seen the light of Konrad's gestation capsule burning in the atmosphere.
I have high hopes for the many videos to come :D
Konrad and Sanguinius: best vampire bros
You got
corvus: the goth crow
Konrad: the emo bat
Sanguinius: the Chad angel
DONT LISTEN TO OTHERS DO VIDEO JUST ON KONRAD AND THEN AGAIN AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!!
Name checks out
true
He hasn't changed his user name for a few years now, much like mine (kahn fan here).
Hes one of the only youtube comment section people I can remember.
Him and Sultan.
He said it was going to be a remake, but I didn't expect this....this gonna be good.
Ooooo. This should be the best. Again!
Vulkan: *breaks through maze*
Kurze: No! This isn’t how you’re supposed to play the game!
This reminds me of a guy I went to college with. Thanks for the trip down memory lane!
>Live on Nostramo
>Fear the Night Haunter
>Don't do crime
>Live an honest life without causing crime
>Lover gets killed
"that killer is fucked"
>goes back to life
We need a buddy cop movie of Konrad and Vulkan boating across the galaxy laying down the law
I've lived around people with various mental illnesses throughout my life and really I think the book is genuinely great at portraying mental illness and the descent of it as it continues.
"playing with his food"
Damn, that phrase still gives me Shudder's in this video
"Tell Sevatar to bring them in line, heads will roll!"
The Night Lords were the first Legion that I delved into and still love them the most!:)
I HAVE BROUGHT ORDER, PEACE AND JUSTICE TO MY NEW IMPERIUM!
Truly a beautiful remake, Arch, thank you! I still find elements of the original amusing in how they are worded (i.e. the Superman dynamic, ha), and it would be a tragedy to take it down, I hope you keep both incarnations up.
I have read a few fanfictions, that have the fallen Primarchs as the protagonists and the loyal Primarchs as antagonists, swapping their allegiance. Including a point where insane Vampire-Sanguinius kills Horus, after having visions of Horus killing him, and replaces Fulgrim in the cloning idea wanting his brother (Horus) to love and join him rather than reject him. Some of the plot points include; With Angron, it was an interesting AU, where he was instead adopted by the Nobility then led a revolt against the leaders and freed the slaves. Konrad was sane, had been adopted by a woman who tragically died and freed of terrible visions by the Emperor's arrival. Sometimes he played "pica-boo" pranks on his Legion and serfs, when they went looking for his random sleeping places, and hadn't had serious visions until the approaching of the Heresy which he told Fulgrim who also remained loyal. Fulgrim and Konrad were close, Fulgrim believed in Konrad, and Fulgrim mourned Konrad's death at the hands of Vulcan at the Drop Site Massacre.
On a side note: Apparently, according to new sources, it is hinted that the Lost Primarchs were actually divided, one apparently fell and the other was loyal, but as we've seen with the intentions of Konrad and Alpharius Omegon... loyalty is a questionable point. What is good and just, what is an act of loyalty, changes by person. Although, in the new Cawl book they did reveal one of the Lost Legions through a reflection seen on Pharos by Primaris, wearing original Gray Armour and 2/5 of them being Psykers. I live with the theory that the Second Legion were built to combat the warp and other such entities, so I am leaning that this was a cameo of the Second Legion.
On a side note, the first "New Source" isn't a new Source but comes from the Soul Drinkers. Well shit, shoulda done my research.
If the Pirmarchs landing in their home world could be described as rolling a d20 and the higher the roll the more well suited a world is to that Primarch
Gulliman rolled a 20
Konrad's die rolled in to a garbage disposal, and was a 1
Angron rolled a zero.
@@dare2630 he broke the dice 😂
After reading the Night Lords omnibus I have new appreciation and even a little love for Curze and his kids.
"I have come for you...." -The Primarch Konrad Kurze
I mean what else is his wife supposed to hear on their wedding night?
Indeed
he wanted to do it again because he didn't like the end results
Nobody cares all they see is arch saying fuck remakes/remasteres, then blam, we get kurze 2 Electric boogaloo.
His opinion really doesn't matter when he explicitly says the contents is made for us the fans and we have spoken, by raising it too 2nd most viewed video of his.
From the outset it just looks like a cynical cash grab, doing exactly what he berated and disdains the most from the gaming industry.
@@empyrealcultist1992 to be fair if you watch the curzr video it is made in the beginning of his youtube careet and you can tell
@@empyrealcultist1992 if it is better than the first one Will you eat your words?
Ps the Reason peapole complain about remakes is that they generally are shit. Se ghostbusters 2016.
Have you ever heard of the tragedy of Primarch Konrad the sad? Legend has it Konrad was a dark primarch of the emperor, so powerful and scary he could even influence Nostramo to stop crime.
He could actually save the population from crime?
The dark side of ethics is a pathway to many acts some consider to be unnatural.
What happened to him?
He became so powerful... the only thing he was afraid of was losing his righteousness, which eventually he did. Unfortunately, he taught his legion everything he knew, but they were corrupted, and he was assassinated in his sleep. Ironic. He could stop crime, but became a criminal himself.
is it possible to learn this thesis?
Not from a loyalist.
Dang Arch, I gotta say this is probably one of the best lore videos you've done. this one was amazing.
I would have wanted Perturabo video but oh well
Or Dorn.
He wanted daddy attention and didn’t get it so he had a tantrum alongside his other brothers.
There you go, that about sums it up.
@@andriuspakulis2948 He had to fortify it, it was a clear weakness in his structure.
Andrius Pakulis id like videos on guilliman, ferrus and alpharius
@@lamb_link I really hate how all the lore makes Perturabo a whiny bitch, when he has the potential to be the most interesting Primarch. A logic driven, self-sacrificing primarch whose whole shtick is that all he wants is to build beautiful cities and architecture and all hes allowed to do is destroy it. He's the one who built the Colosseum on Nicaea, making it a gorgeous place for contests of skills, only for it to be used a grand total of one time to censure one of the few brothers he got along with, Magnus. He is simultaneously someone who believes everyone should just quietly get to their work without complaining or doing it for glory, yet he wants to be recognized and loved for the horrible, torturous sieges he's forced to wage for the Imperium.
Masterclass stuff! Thank you Arch for the content. Never stop never stopping.
I would so be down for an arch what if video for everyone. Imagine a what if for lorgar
The lorgar video would just be 2 hours of swearing at him
Been going through the Heresy following along with your videos as I complete them. I just so happened to get the new Konrad book and finish it in time to see this video. And your original video on him was the first of yours I saw and got me into 40k
One of my three favorite Primarchs, the tragedy of Konrad I believe was one of pure bad luck, any other world but Nostramo and his fate would've been different. There was no light on Nostramo, literally and metaphorically, it conditioned him, he could never see the light in humanity, only the dark. His visions showed him the darkest path fate could take and he believed that was absolute, for on Nostramo there was no virtue, thus how could the common man be virtuous? The only virtue he found was in his fellow Primarchs and the Emperor, this stood at odds with who he was and this created in him a sense of self loathing so strong he couldn't countenance it. Any world but Nostramo.
You think he would have done better on Nuceria?
@@1110-s1t if you swapped Angron with Konrad? I still stand that yes he would. Konrad's MO was stealth and foresight, unlike the brute force of Angron, so it would be conceivable that he could avoid the nails. Falling that however, the poor of Nuceria were a far cry from the cruel ruling elite and if he went down the same path as Angron he would potentially see that, and the Night Lords drawn from Nuceria would not be rotten to the core, avoiding the tarnishing of his legacy like Nostramo. If he received the nails there would be no justice in inflicting the nails on others, so the legion that came from that world would be one free from the nails bite. In addition, I think Angron would take well to Nostramo, brute force his way to the top and turn out far better then he did on Nuceria.
The eldar wouldn't have shown up to attack him and if they did he would escape, either way avoid the slavery and see Nuceria for what it was, fight for justice for the masses. Applying his tactics instead of Angron's and the nobles of Nuceria would be either dead or changed in short order.
Finally the nails typically overloaded psykers, no telling what that would do to a primarch that was also a psyker like Curze, so that is a little harder to speculate on.
@@AsSaSsIn200706050403 a much more interesting response than I expected admittedly.
I hadn't considered the psyker aspect of the nails, but that's a good point. What I was thinking was the nails would work, and inflame the split personality issue which I took as a given part of Kurzes nature, and but it reacts with his physiology differently, exacerbating his need for justice of the bloody variety. Ending up with a similarly psychotic Kurze without the nagging of his prophetic visions.
No doubt Angron would do better on Nostromo, your assessment on that front is basically what I would expect.
Assuming no nails Kurze, I think gladiator him is tricky enough to conquer Nuceria and he becomes the son he was meant to be.
Thanks for that. :)
@@1110-s1t I agree with the case you make for the nails, I feel that would be the most likely outcome, though my inner optimist would hope that it would overload his prophetic visions, forcing him to master them, a the Night Lords headed by Konrad with fully realized prophetic visions would be unstoppable. Either way they would probably burn through him faster then they did Angron, but with a determination to spread compliance before his end came the Night Lord's would be a legion to be reckoned with.
no problem, it's been a pleasure getting to to theorize about my favorite primarch
Arch, your enthusiasm is neverending. Thanks for your content over the years. Many cathartic moments.
*the most unlucky ship in the galaxy*
... So the Occurrence Border?
I appreciate that reference, and the images of bleeding walls and more it conjures.
@@TOUGHEYES And the fucking Ghost-nids...
@@XxSoraMifunexX the daemonids ... never forget the daemonids
Nostramo citizen: I just want to live a life that isn't filled with constant pain and suffering
Konrad: Wait, that's illegal
Was just about to play The Master Chief Collection (a remaster of Halo games) but then Arch came out with a remaster of his Conrad video.
Vulkan during his capture is a pretty obvious physical metaphor for hope. The way he acts, the fact of his immortality, and his association with fire (hope usually associated with a spark or flame), all point to the Emperor intending this to be his role, perhaps even to counter the fear of Konrad.
HYYYYYPE! FAVE PRIMARCH, FAVE LEGION!
Preparing a feast for lords for this content
The mental image of Vulkan just yeeting Konrad Curze at the energy field is something I didn’t know I needed until now.
Ah yes, Space Punisher.
I love the rolling r in the “result”
My personal belief is Kurze, if he had spared the boy, his legion more noble and loyal to the Emperor. That he could have formed a bond with the Angel, maybe both could learn of each other's perceived fates. And maybe the angelic Primarch would have made such an impression that Kurze would seek to avert the oncoming fate of his brother. I think that Kurze would have been on Terra and boarded with the Emperor. That he would be the first to confront Horus. That Sanguinius would have arrived to see his closest brother murder another whom he pitied and perhaps wished to protect, and this could have filled the Angel with such wrath that he may well have struck Horus down in his fury, but been unwilling to kill him, so he would die just the same. But it would be a broken, wounded Horus the Emperor faced, not the mighty champion of the Powers Undivided. The 41st millennium could have been very different indeed, if only Kurze had made one decision differently.
And this is why I follow your lore, and telling of the old lore and the truth of human psychology and mental capability as well as adaptability. Thank you for making such an in-depth look at lore and psychology in both human and inter-speciesall thinking.
Oh shit, here we go again...
Imagine Conrad kurz is just a baby coming down on his planet and thinks “I love everyone and everything I’m gonna be such a good boy”
That's twenty one sons.
Rumors of WAAAGH 🐉
@Leo Nidas Spoiler alert: Alpharius and Omegon were twin Primarchs, and they both resided within the same birthing capsule.
@Leo Nidas Hold the presses, 22? Great, just when I thought I knew it all, here's facts ruining my evening. Time to look up The First Primarch, hopefully she was a woman.
We need to remember that most likely no other primarch other than Vulkan could have stood up to Konrad's torture for that long simply because of his pure love for humanity and absolute will.
Edit: except maybe Sanguinius