The title's slightly misleading, though the explanation and demos look sound for video, ND filters do have there place when using the 'Photo's' mode - I've seen some decent long (max 30sec length on this camera) exposure waterfall and river images taken with the Action 3 and even some landscape photography. And whilst they're not DLSR level, and its obviously not the 'main' purpose of the action camera - if you've only got one camera with you, thats the one you'll have to use - video or photos. Thanks for taking the time to show us this stuff 👍
That is a very good point! I didn't even think about the photo side of the camera. I am going to pin your comment! Thank you for pointing this out Bokooda.
I also only use filter for photo mode where without the filter I would not be able to achieve such photo effect. May need to make another video based on filter for photo mode.
Yeah, I hate the misleading clickbait title. It is fair enough for @TheCameraManReviews to point out the use cases that don't work with certain filters, the segment on the stabilisation was very useful, but to dismiss the filters entirely isn't helpful.
ND filters might not be good if you’re taking a video where you are moving with the camera, however if the camera is not moving then you wouldn’t have to worry about stabilization and an ND filter would be beneficial.
Finally someone who explains this properly! If you are using slow shutter speeds, you‘re not only capturing the motion blur for the motions you want to capture, you‘re also capturing the motion blur of all the movements you want the stabilization to eliminate. While the stabilization can eliminete the unwanted motion, it will never be able to eliminate the motion blur of them.
When riding my motorcycle, I always turn off stabilization. I use a handlebar, chest, or helmet mount so on smooth highways and roads I can benefit from having ND filters to get the natural blur of the surroundings. ND filters still have a role to play depending on their application. You made some great points though.
P.S.: from my humble ignorance, what I got from your comment is that you actually like non stable image, like bumpy, and instead of clean and sharp, blurred image. How is that a good thing? Honest question. Sounds very "messy" 🙆♂️ Thank you and sorry for the spam 🙏
@@LiveYourLifeWithJoy If you read my comment, you'll notice that I said "I use a handlebar, chest, or helmet mount so on smooth highways and roads I can benefit from having ND filters to get the natural blur of the surroundings. " Therefore, there is no blurring of the footage, and turning off stabilization will give a wider FOV. ND filters create motion blur, making the footage look more natural and pleasing to our eyes. It doesn't create blurry footage when using the 180-degree rule. Please search YT for hundreds of videos explaining the practice of using ND filters in cinematography.
can you help, i have osmo action 4, i want to use it for motovlog cam so, should i buy nd filter or nd+pl filter ? Which is better ? Also i have light problems at night city motovlogging cause of traffic or carlights.
I use Nd filters, but I use it on super sunny days, I have 3 ND filters from Polar Pro. I see what works and use it for those conditions. The skies are not as blown out. Of course shady areas suffer a bit, so using the right filter or setting is a must. So then I can recover the shadows and skies.Of course with overcast I don't have a filter on.
Actually, what you said about the UV filters is exactly reason why I DO buy them. They have zero effect but still protect my lenses from scratches. If something bad happens, I prefer to change a filter for 30 dollar rather than a lense for 500$.
@@maxl6058 Sure, If you have a GoPro 5 to 9, what about all those people that don't? UV filters have been used as lens protectors for decades for a reason. Simple, effective and inexpensive.
Yes I invest in quality Japanese UV glass to protect my lenses external coatings from the need to continually clean them abd increase micro scratches and the risk of removing coatings and clean the filter instead
Absolutely, I dropped my camera on to stone. It landed lens down. It took a pair of pliers, and a glass splinter, which caused profuse bleeding, to finally remove the UV filter. Cost c. £12 to replace the filter, whereas the lens would have cost c.20x more. Every lens has its own UV filter *except* my action camera. For that, a lens protecter is attached to ensure that the lens is, er, protected.
My filters arrived today and I get to see this video this evening. Your video is very helpful since I now know when not to use filters and when I can, such as in photography (information from the comments). None-the-less, great information on this topic and other topics from your other video. I'm a big fan. Thanks.
OMG I have been messing with settings for months trying to figure out why it's totally fine when on the tripod and gets all jittery when I'm moving. Thank you so much!!!
I think the UV part wasn't a fair example because the clouds hinder its effectiveness. It would have been nice to test it in an environment, such as when the sun is out and cloud-free sky to make a demonstration! But this was a excellent video! Have this in my favorites for reference and research!
Great video! It helps to know your use case when analyzing the filter’s advantages. For me, on an FPV drone that shakes constantly, I’d prefer to not have a lower shutter, to maximize the effects of stabilization.
UV filter is used in bright daylight, especially with blue skies. UV filters are useful on bright days, otherwise everything (especially anything blue) filmed has a violet tint. This is noticeable in Southern Hemisphere skies, our thinner ozone and cleaner atmosphere means much more UV.
well ok... if you only want to use the stabilisation software of the action cam and no post processing then all seen here is correct. But for me.. if you want best video ... set your cam to resolution and view angle so that it is recording gyro data, use ND Filter if you want to have this motion blur and set shutter speed to 2* of FPS... then record... and post processing -> use Gyroflow for example to stabilize all later -> like that I have motion blur and stable video. If your cam is able to record 10bit material -> then I would maybe try this before buying ND filters . Record 10bit and use post processing with for example "da Vinci" to add for example motion blur, edit your video to the end product you want... or use easily a "LUT" to get some great results out of it, without using ND filters
Great summary, just on pair with what I have concluded after longer research. What do you think about adding Reelsmart Motion Blur or Davinci's AE_pixel_motion_blur (and some nice LUT) in post for cycling videos? Im planning to go back to recording, after leaving it because of constant Gopro 9 issues. Now I have ordered refreshed Dji Action 2 with 128Gb (unfortunately still without 10bit) and thinking about best setup, and whether ND is worth the hassle. Its gonna be road and gravel biking, so nothing as demanding as MTB, but also often not really smooth. I want to use various possible mount positions, so handlebar/chest/helmet. Thanks for your input. :)
It‘s not a matter of the camera software. If you are using a slow shutter speed, it also captures the motionblur of the motions you want to stabilize and there ist no way to get rid of them any more.
Thanks for this. Was almost 'seduced' by the blurb into buying filters for my gopro but after your video (& others) will save my pennies. I love my gopros & their versatility but do understand that they have limitations ..... wont stop me trying to push their boundaries tho! Thanks again.
I started photography with real film (pre digital), so your explanations make perfect sense. You are undermining the video software with these filter mods, BUT they do still (ha!) make sense for stills (photos only, not video). I like a UV filter as a lens protector though, if you have lost or broken your lens protector, or if the lens protector is overpriced compared to the UV filter.
You had some really great points there. Thanks for sharing. I will like a proper explanation on using NDPL filters on my drone and what does it mean to film 90 degrees to the sun when using these filters for best image quality
If I may add: there should be a big difference between a circular-polarized (CPL) kind and a plain 90 degrees kind of polarized filters. The plain kind should be much more sensitive to orientation and incoming angle of light, while the cpl kind should not matter much - but I have not compared them myself- maybe You are able to do it for us?
So, the seller advised me to buy some Lens to have better image quality, besides the one that comes with the Adventure combo. I am a total humble ignorant in this stuff, plus I have a flight to catch in less than 48h with a Lot to do, of which none is to dive deeper in this. 🙆♂️😆🤪🤪🤪 I am gonna pick the Cam this morning, but my question is, should I buy any lens at all or just discard them? Thank you 🙏
the best video explaning this topic! I almost wasted my money on these filter.. You got my sub in exchange for teaching me those knowhow and saving me money!
Thanks man, you save my money, really stabilization effect after adding ND filters, noone is talking this in UA-cam, you talked and i am appreciate for this
Excellent video and critique. I'd only comment that if you use your action cam in scenarios where the camera doesn't move a lot (like it did on your bumpy path), then using an ND filter and restricting shutter speed to say 1/400 would make for a better look. I particularly dislike the choppy high frame rate. It's very unsettling. I use mine when sailing - so the camera usually has plenty of light, limited shake, etc
So would you say if you was using your action camera for both action shot footage but also cinematic footage where you may be moving a lot slower then an ND filter would be acceptable? As the movement for the stabilisation would be greatly reduced for the slower moving shots? Great video for action cameras I myself didn’t know too much about the reason for such bad stabilisation at lower shutter speeds.
I noticed my osmo 3 has. Smaller lens opening then my hero 7. Is it really a 2.8 arpeture ?or is it a typo? Seems more like a 3.8 At iso 800 the osmo is almost complety black screen while the hero can see light. I found several typos in the manual. It said to download the dji fly app to register the camera lol?? My osmo is from 9/22 the hero 7 is also 12mp with a 2.8 arpeture
Thank you for the video. I use my action 3 to film our softball team games from a stationed setting. Often times the games are played during bright sun light in the afternoon. Sometimes the video looks sort of white out so I was guessing it's caused by the bright light, hence got me thinking if some sort of filter could help. If a filter can help, would you mind recommend which filter we can try or maybe settings on the camera? Thank you agian.
Thanks for the nice info there! Just wondering about the ND-filters. There are some alternatives between 1/50 and 1/2000. How about a compromise? Using a low ND-filter and ignoring the 180-rule? Wouldn´t that give you both a bit less choppy footage and good stabilization?
what I found is that you need a shutter speed of 1/500 for the stabilisation to work. This is the slowest I could get away with. At this speed any ND filter is pointless as the motion blur is lost and anything below 1/500 the stabilisation wasn't good enough.
@@puffythepirateboy6674Agree completely! The sweet spot for helmet mount cams lies between 1/100 and 1/200 shutter speeds for my Osmo Action 3 with Rocksteady turned on. Should be the same for other action cams.
@@TheCameraManReviews It is not about particular shutterspeed but about having or not having motion blur. For example, at slow moving speeds of movevent through the frame, shutterspeed can be very slow without motion blur and vice versa. The existance of motion blur *is* the reason why camera cannot lock image features with confidence and then fails to apply digital stabilization very well. That's why you see either motion blur, *or* good stabilization, but not both at the same time; regardless at which shutterspeed that starts to happen. Anyway... motion blur is easy to add in postprocessing, so I give you a + for this video.
@@TheCameraManReviews 1/500 for stabilization to work? No, thats not been my experience at all. Although I haven't tried on a bike yet. I have gotten great results at 30fps with 1/200 SS and even fairly good results down to 1/120 when walking.
Great Video with best explination One Question I record my driving videos and i mostly record with S 24 Ultra my question is will ND filters help me there for better quality or i should use normal camera for videos while driving. sorry for my bad english
Brilliant truths in this vid and some info id never come across before, top shelf stuff! Hows the electric bike going? Ive been thinking about getting one here in Australia.
PS this is a great video from MotoFeelz showing best settings for night riding with Bike/Motorcycle which might be of interest ua-cam.com/video/o28DmZNTJ0U/v-deo.html
If we use the logic expressed here, would that mean if you have the stabilisation turned off on the action camera the ND filters would have a use? I agree on the CPL filters. I can’t even think why they are available for drones. The camera is constantly moving, even if the drone is static there will be movement. Even if you flew it in a straight line from setting it the height would be different and mean the angles were wrong.
polarising filters.... simply, have to be adjusted. Rotation clock or otherwise will show the power of this setup. BTW. your location can't be improved by any filter, clarities of water and sky, well ....
yo tengo la action 3 y con filtros nd freewell la estabilizacion es la misma con la regla de los 180 grado que si la tengo en 2000 a mi no me afecta para nada, y te da unos colores muy bonitos.
A big one you did not mention, most camera lenses are specialised glass (the good ones are) so having bought this expensive lense you then put an inferior bit of glass in front of it, UV for protection makes sense but the glas has to be comparable to the lense.
4:44 Camera on the handlebar is a horrible idea. I recommend to have the camera on the helmet. I ride with a full face helmet, with Gnartec Ultimate chin mount. No stabilization, it's not needed if you use chin cam setup. I use Go Pro Hero 7 Black with PeauPro87 3.37mm no distortion lens.
Filters definitely have their place and purpose in both DSLR and Action cameras. Sure they are not a one size fits all but they do make your camera much more flexible due to the locked aperture. I see them as a very handy tool to have in your arsenal. Q. How would you take a daytime version of a nightlapse? The only way that i know possible is with a ND1000 filter......so please don't go discounting them.
When you have to capture timelapse footage, ND filter will give you better footage. But there's disadvantage when use in footage action. Purcase it's ok, but use it in selected occasion.
I might talk nonsense since I am a beginner at this but with modern action cams where you can tweak the exposure, shutter speed and ISO, does one even need an ND filter?
You are correct that you can change these settings, but the need for an ND would still be required to get a slower shutter speed than the camera will allow.
@@TheCameraManReviews yeah, that's true. I am basically still in the watch reviews/guids/howtos until my osmo action 4 arrives and it will be my first action cam :)
The insta360 is a beast when it comes to stabilisation, and yes can use filters, because the stabilisation in post uses the gyro data from the camera it can smooth out the footage even at lower shutterspeeds.
IME, ND and polarizers are usually used when the camera is locked off. Agree 100% on UV filters they makj no difference with digital cameras/recordings.
I bought the wrong filters from Polar pro. Now I use the ND filters as extra lenses and shoot in full auto, the only action my Osmo action 1 sees is hiking and driving the freeways
By setting shutter speed to Auto , can't we get stabilization when using ND Filter ? Because I see that Over Exposure can be normalised only using ND Filter. I am planning to buy one now. Please answer my doubt.
UV filters is more like protection to your lens when you direct your lens in the sunlight so you wont damage your lens nor your unit, at least thats what I learn back in DSLR days, that's why there's nothing much added effect on it ...
Very new here, please help, I want to record my scooter + hiking holiday on DJI action 4 camera in 4k 30 fps rocksteady on. Does that mean that you do not recommend 1/60 shutterspeed ? (With no ND filter). Which shutterspeed do you recommend if no nd filter ?
It all makes sense for action cameras. ND filters are only useful in limited scenarios on them. Same for CPL filters. As for UV filters; only useful as a replacement for a scratched lens or protection. On drones, DSLRs, Video cameras and some other cameras though they are very useful (except UV filters which are only useful for protection).
With the native stabilization turned off, and third party software like Gyroflow used, ND fitters do serve a purpose of correcting exposure for blown out highlights
@@riajulbhuiyan4148 Gyroflow does a nice job for me at 1/120 shutter speed (and 1/240 during daylight) I live in a PAL 50 Hz country, so I use 1/100 at night, and increase the ISO slightly
For video you set the shutter to double your frame rate. So say you record at 60fps, your shutter speed u would set to 1/120 . This will give you the perfect amount of motion blur. To remove motion blur increase ss.
first of all, people use these filters badly, they forget (I don't know how you can forget) that sports cameras use digital stabilization, otherwise post-production. people listened to the talk of filmmakers about the 180 rule, but probably everyone's brain evaporated, because they did not notice that this rule is mentioned on the example of cameras with optical stabilization, only flycam or gimbal stabilizers. sports cameras for smooth stabilization often need 1/240 or even 1/480 of a second! so you can use these filters, but the principle of use is completely different if someone is not going to mount a sports camera on a gimbal.
maybe my brain evaporated, but do you mean action cameras can use these filters but with other "rule", so that the motion blur can be done afterwards, say in premiere?
Wow I shouldn't have been watching UA-cam that late I could barely write. I meant, if your recording is relatively stable and doesn't require rocksteady, the filters can be nice and handy. Would work great as well for pictures I assume
Companies use both sensor data and gyro sensors for action camera stabilization, but each plays a different role in achieving the best possible results. Sensor Data vs. Gyro Sensors: Sensor Data: This refers to the combination of various inputs from the camera's sensors, like accelerometers, gyroscopes, and sometimes even optical sensors. Accelerometers measure linear movements (such as tilts and shakes), while gyroscopes measure rotational movements. Combining all this sensor data helps to build a full picture of the camera's motion. Gyro Sensors: These measure angular velocity (rotation around axes) and are indeed crucial for stabilizing footage, especially for rotational movements. Modern gyro-based electronic image stabilization (EIS) uses gyro data to adjust each frame accordingly. Why Not Only Gyro?: Completeness: Gyro sensors alone detect rotational movement, but don’t capture all types of motion, such as linear movement (e.g., a camera being jostled forward or sideways). Therefore, accelerometers and other sensors are often included to complement the gyro data. Post-Processing Capabilities: Many stabilization systems, especially on higher-end action cameras, use sensor fusion-combining gyro data with accelerometer data, and sometimes GPS or other environmental data to improve the quality of stabilization. This data combination gives more accurate information for correcting movement. Real-Time vs. Post-Processing: Some stabilization methods (like EIS) happen in real-time using gyro data, but sensor data from other components can improve stabilization in post-processing. Companies like GoPro use gyro data and video frame analysis to create highly stable video even when shooting in extreme conditions. This extra sensor data helps fine-tune the stabilization algorithms. Cost and Power Efficiency: Using a combination of data is often more power-efficient and cost-effective than using high-end gyro sensors alone. It also gives flexibility for future software updates to improve stabilization using the same hardware. In essence, action cameras use gyro sensors for stabilization, but they are typically supplemented with other sensor data for a more accurate and robust stabilization effect.
@brandonlanois1734 I mean sensors (any kind except matrix) vs matrix 😉. GoPro doesn't not stabilize good in night conditions or with ND filters. Why? Because they don't use EIS (data from sensors). That's my opinion, but your comment is very helpful.
This is not exactly correct... This is only an issue in hard mounted solutions. Any body mounted solutions don't get high frequency vibrations and you're only worried about keeping the image in frame. The smoother motion blur is way more critical for good looking action shots especially with high-speed moving shots (MTB, motorcycle, snowboarding/skiing).
Great info and thanks for sharing. But you only tested using ND filters with lots of movement. I am assuming with low movement, such as walking, that there is very little difference in stabilization between using or not using ND filters on an Action cam. So really, the only one we may need is the UV filter just to protect the lens. And look at all of these UA-camr influencers praising all of the filter sets to pad their wallets.
That is true, the path I rode on is extremely bumpy, far worse than it looks. Whilst walking or keeping the camera more stable you will of course get away with lower SS. 🙂
some people, like me, have problems listening to background music when trying to focus on a narrative. I would much appreciate to listen to your voice only - music gets quite disruptive trying to follow your explanations and comprehend them. Though painful to follow, still a good compilation
It's too bad u based your ND argument on this specific usecase. The little bicycle on a bumpy road. You should've shown what the satbilisation looks like in different use cases. On foot/water/automotive etc. For my case (motorcycle) going to 25fps with 180 shutter angle and rocksteady on, the footage looks mint. So you're argument holds up, but only in specific situations you have to add.
One of the dumber advices I have seen in a while. I am not even going to go into specifics, but every single photographer or drone pilot or basically anyone that uses cameras im high sunlight (and is remotely keen to make good looking video) is using ND filters. And here comes the guy simply advising not to purchase them. People, you should really select what (who) you watch on UA-cam. That's the downside of mass platforms. Everyone gets to say something
The title's slightly misleading, though the explanation and demos look sound for video, ND filters do have there place when using the 'Photo's' mode - I've seen some decent long (max 30sec length on this camera) exposure waterfall and river images taken with the Action 3 and even some landscape photography. And whilst they're not DLSR level, and its obviously not the 'main' purpose of the action camera - if you've only got one camera with you, thats the one you'll have to use - video or photos. Thanks for taking the time to show us this stuff 👍
That is a very good point! I didn't even think about the photo side of the camera. I am going to pin your comment!
Thank you for pointing this out Bokooda.
I also only use filter for photo mode where without the filter I would not be able to achieve such photo effect. May need to make another video based on filter for photo mode.
I have a milkyway picture from my osmo action 1. No ND filters.
Yeah, I hate the misleading clickbait title. It is fair enough for @TheCameraManReviews to point out the use cases that don't work with certain filters, the segment on the stabilisation was very useful, but to dismiss the filters entirely isn't helpful.
ND filters might not be good if you’re taking a video where you are moving with the camera, however if the camera is not moving then you wouldn’t have to worry about stabilization and an ND filter would be beneficial.
Finally someone who explains this properly! If you are using slow shutter speeds, you‘re not only capturing the motion blur for the motions you want to capture, you‘re also capturing the motion blur of all the movements you want the stabilization to eliminate. While the stabilization can eliminete the unwanted motion, it will never be able to eliminate the motion blur of them.
When riding my motorcycle, I always turn off stabilization. I use a handlebar, chest, or helmet mount so on smooth highways and roads I can benefit from having ND filters to get the natural blur of the surroundings. ND filters still have a role to play depending on their application. You made some great points though.
So, they just blur things? 😆🤪🤪🤪
How is that a good thing? I mean, as oposed to sharpness?
I am at all familiar with these words and concepts. 😆🤪🤪🤪
How can turn stabilization off, be a good thing? 🙏
P.S.: from my humble ignorance, what I got from your comment is that you actually like non stable image, like bumpy, and instead of clean and sharp, blurred image.
How is that a good thing? Honest question. Sounds very "messy" 🙆♂️
Thank you and sorry for the spam 🙏
@@LiveYourLifeWithJoy If you read my comment, you'll notice that I said "I use a handlebar, chest, or helmet mount so on smooth highways and roads I can benefit from having ND filters to get the natural blur of the surroundings. " Therefore, there is no blurring of the footage, and turning off stabilization will give a wider FOV. ND filters create motion blur, making the footage look more natural and pleasing to our eyes. It doesn't create blurry footage when using the 180-degree rule. Please search YT for hundreds of videos explaining the practice of using ND filters in cinematography.
can you help, i have osmo action 4, i want to use it for motovlog cam so, should i buy nd filter or nd+pl filter ? Which is better ? Also i have light problems at night city motovlogging cause of traffic or carlights.
Great video and explanations. Thank you.
Only good video I have found about this issue online. Excellent!
I use Nd filters, but I use it on super sunny days, I have 3 ND filters from Polar Pro. I see what works and use it for those conditions.
The skies are not as blown out. Of course shady areas suffer a bit, so using the right filter or setting is a must. So then I can recover the shadows and skies.Of course with overcast I don't have a filter on.
Actually, what you said about the UV filters is exactly reason why I DO buy them. They have zero effect but still protect my lenses from scratches. If something bad happens, I prefer to change a filter for 30 dollar rather than a lense for 500$.
If you want protection buy yourself camera butter lens shield, it would be much better option
@@maxl6058 Sure, If you have a GoPro 5 to 9, what about all those people that don't? UV filters have been used as lens protectors for decades for a reason. Simple, effective and inexpensive.
Yes I invest in quality Japanese UV glass to protect my lenses external coatings from the need to continually clean them abd increase micro scratches and the risk of removing coatings and clean the filter instead
Absolutely, I dropped my camera on to stone. It landed lens down. It took a pair of pliers, and a glass splinter, which caused profuse bleeding, to finally remove the UV filter.
Cost c. £12 to replace the filter, whereas the lens would have cost c.20x more.
Every lens has its own UV filter *except* my action camera. For that, a lens protecter is attached to ensure that the lens is, er, protected.
Cpl filters are good to use when filming hyperlapses of sunsets, particularly when water is involved. Good video mate
Excellent video! Very informative about the relationship of filters and internal stabilization of action cameras!
Glad it was helpful!
My filters arrived today and I get to see this video this evening. Your video is very helpful since I now know when not to use filters and when I can, such as in photography (information from the comments). None-the-less, great information on this topic and other topics from your other video. I'm a big fan. Thanks.
OMG I have been messing with settings for months trying to figure out why it's totally fine when on the tripod and gets all jittery when I'm moving. Thank you so much!!!
I think the UV part wasn't a fair example because the clouds hinder its effectiveness. It would have been nice to test it in an environment, such as when the sun is out and cloud-free sky to make a demonstration! But this was a excellent video! Have this in my favorites for reference and research!
Great video! It helps to know your use case when analyzing the filter’s advantages. For me, on an FPV drone that shakes constantly, I’d prefer to not have a lower shutter, to maximize the effects of stabilization.
Good point!
UV filter is used in bright daylight, especially with blue skies. UV filters are useful on bright days, otherwise everything (especially anything blue) filmed has a violet tint. This is noticeable in Southern Hemisphere skies, our thinner ozone and cleaner atmosphere means much more UV.
well ok... if you only want to use the stabilisation software of the action cam and no post processing then all seen here is correct. But for me.. if you want best video ... set your cam to resolution and view angle so that it is recording gyro data, use ND Filter if you want to have this motion blur and set shutter speed to 2* of FPS... then record... and post processing -> use Gyroflow for example to stabilize all later -> like that I have motion blur and stable video. If your cam is able to record 10bit material -> then I would maybe try this before buying ND filters . Record 10bit and use post processing with for example "da Vinci" to add for example motion blur, edit your video to the end product you want... or use easily a "LUT" to get some great results out of it, without using ND filters
Great summary, just on pair with what I have concluded after longer research.
What do you think about adding Reelsmart Motion Blur or Davinci's AE_pixel_motion_blur (and some nice LUT)
in post for cycling videos?
Im planning to go back to recording, after leaving it because of constant Gopro 9 issues.
Now I have ordered refreshed Dji Action 2 with 128Gb (unfortunately still without 10bit) and thinking about best setup, and whether ND is worth the hassle.
Its gonna be road and gravel biking, so nothing as demanding as MTB, but also often not really smooth. I want to use various possible mount positions, so handlebar/chest/helmet.
Thanks for your input. :)
It‘s not a matter of the camera software. If you are using a slow shutter speed, it also captures the motionblur of the motions you want to stabilize and there ist no way to get rid of them any more.
That's great. I was about to buy a ND 1000 for my action 3, won't bother now.👍
You would get nice nighttime pictures with that. It's a great way to naturally erase people from your shots at night and during the day.
Thanks for this. Was almost 'seduced' by the blurb into buying filters for my gopro but after your video (& others) will save my pennies. I love my gopros & their versatility but do understand that they have limitations ..... wont stop me trying to push their boundaries tho! Thanks again.
Are ND filters any value if you are filming in really bright light like an Australian summer?
I started photography with real film (pre digital), so your explanations make perfect sense. You are undermining the video software with these filter mods, BUT they do still (ha!) make sense for stills (photos only, not video). I like a UV filter as a lens protector though, if you have lost or broken your lens protector, or if the lens protector is overpriced compared to the UV filter.
I was thinking - this all depends on where the light sensors are. If the light sensor is independent of the lens, or if it is the lens.
Never thought about that … makes sense now.. so if u use nd filters just turn off all stabilization
I understand that the UV filter is great for deflecting reflective glass.
You had some really great points there. Thanks for sharing. I will like a proper explanation on using NDPL filters on my drone and what does it mean to film 90 degrees to the sun when using these filters for best image quality
If I may add: there should be a big difference between a circular-polarized (CPL) kind and a plain 90 degrees kind of polarized filters.
The plain kind should be much more sensitive to orientation and incoming angle of light, while the cpl kind should not matter much - but I have not compared them myself- maybe You are able to do it for us?
Thanks dude. You saved me a bunch of cash. Great stuff
Thank you, buddy. You just saved me a bunch of money!
So, the seller advised me to buy some Lens to have better image quality, besides the one that comes with the Adventure combo.
I am a total humble ignorant in this stuff, plus I have a flight to catch in less than 48h with a Lot to do, of which none is to dive deeper in this. 🙆♂️😆🤪🤪🤪
I am gonna pick the Cam this morning, but my question is, should I buy any lens at all or just discard them? Thank you 🙏
ua-cam.com/video/ynGDPGiWwXU/v-deo.html
Thank you for teaching us this.
Great video. I was sceptical about not using CPL, you made perfect sense about it all. Cheers
the best video explaning this topic! I almost wasted my money on these filter.. You got my sub in exchange for teaching me those knowhow and saving me money!
Thanks for the sub!
Thanks man, you save my money, really stabilization effect after adding ND filters, noone is talking this in UA-cam, you talked and i am appreciate for this
Got it, with ND its almost like stabilization is off 😆🤪🤪🤪
ua-cam.com/video/ynGDPGiWwXU/v-deo.html
Great video. You just saved me $$ as I was considering getting ND filters.
Excellent video and critique. I'd only comment that if you use your action cam in scenarios where the camera doesn't move a lot (like it did on your bumpy path), then using an ND filter and restricting shutter speed to say 1/400 would make for a better look. I particularly dislike the choppy high frame rate. It's very unsettling. I use mine when sailing - so the camera usually has plenty of light, limited shake, etc
So would you say if you was using your action camera for both action shot footage but also cinematic footage where you may be moving a lot slower then an ND filter would be acceptable? As the movement for the stabilisation would be greatly reduced for the slower moving shots?
Great video for action cameras I myself didn’t know too much about the reason for such bad stabilisation at lower shutter speeds.
such a great explanation..really!
Glad it was helpful!
So a higher shutter speed is better for stabilization?
Aside from the gimbal, you can us gyroflow data to compensate the lack of EIS
I noticed my osmo 3 has. Smaller lens opening then my hero 7. Is it really a 2.8 arpeture ?or is it a typo? Seems more like a 3.8 At iso 800 the osmo is almost complety black screen while the hero can see light. I found several typos in the manual. It said to download the dji fly app to register the camera lol?? My osmo is from 9/22 the hero 7 is also 12mp with a 2.8 arpeture
Thanks! This is the best illustration on shutter rule I have seen so far and most practical (& honest) take on filters.
Excellent information. Thank you.
Wonderful share!!!!!
Thank you sir, you just saved me some money =)
what if use nd filters but ramp up the shutter speed more that the 180 rule?
Thank you for the video. I use my action 3 to film our softball team games from a stationed setting. Often times the games are played during bright sun light in the afternoon. Sometimes the video looks sort of white out so I was guessing it's caused by the bright light, hence got me thinking if some sort of filter could help. If a filter can help, would you mind recommend which filter we can try or maybe settings on the camera? Thank you agian.
Without changing into manual mode on the camera, a filter wont help much. Can you change the cameras location and angle to the sun?
This was very informative.. I currently do not use the stabilization feature so I want to try the ND filter anyways but great info
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the nice info there! Just wondering about the ND-filters. There are some alternatives between 1/50 and 1/2000. How about a compromise? Using a low ND-filter and ignoring the 180-rule? Wouldn´t that give you both a bit less choppy footage and good stabilization?
what I found is that you need a shutter speed of 1/500 for the stabilisation to work. This is the slowest I could get away with. At this speed any ND filter is pointless as the motion blur is lost and anything below 1/500 the stabilisation wasn't good enough.
@@puffythepirateboy6674Agree completely! The sweet spot for helmet mount cams lies between 1/100 and 1/200 shutter speeds for my Osmo Action 3 with Rocksteady turned on. Should be the same for other action cams.
@@TheCameraManReviews It is not about particular shutterspeed but about having or not having motion blur. For example, at slow moving speeds of movevent through the frame, shutterspeed can be very slow without motion blur and vice versa. The existance of motion blur *is* the reason why camera cannot lock image features with confidence and then fails to apply digital stabilization very well. That's why you see either motion blur, *or* good stabilization, but not both at the same time; regardless at which shutterspeed that starts to happen. Anyway... motion blur is easy to add in postprocessing, so I give you a + for this video.
@@TheCameraManReviews 1/500 for stabilization to work? No, thats not been my experience at all. Although I haven't tried on a bike yet. I have gotten great results at 30fps with 1/200 SS and even fairly good results down to 1/120 when walking.
can i use the nd filters and improve the stabilisation in post production ??
Great Video with best explination
One Question I record my driving videos and i mostly record with S 24 Ultra my question is will ND filters help me there for better quality or i should use normal camera for videos while driving. sorry for my bad english
Makes a lot of sense! Thank you for sharing!
Amazing content. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Brilliant truths in this vid and some info id never come across before, top shelf stuff!
Hows the electric bike going?
Ive been thinking about getting one here in Australia.
PS this is a great video from MotoFeelz showing best settings for night riding with Bike/Motorcycle which might be of interest ua-cam.com/video/o28DmZNTJ0U/v-deo.html
Yeah the electric bike is cool! thx
If we use the logic expressed here, would that mean if you have the stabilisation turned off on the action camera the ND filters would have a use?
I agree on the CPL filters. I can’t even think why they are available for drones. The camera is constantly moving, even if the drone is static there will be movement. Even if you flew it in a straight line from setting it the height would be different and mean the angles were wrong.
polarising filters.... simply, have to be adjusted. Rotation clock or otherwise will show the power of this setup. BTW. your location can't be improved by any filter, clarities of water and sky, well ....
so helpful!! thanks!!
You're welcome!!
A really informative video, thank you
yo tengo la action 3 y con filtros nd freewell la estabilizacion es la misma con la regla de los 180 grado que si la tengo en 2000 a mi no me afecta para nada, y te da unos colores muy bonitos.
A big one you did not mention, most camera lenses are specialised glass (the good ones are) so having bought this expensive lense you then put an inferior bit of glass in front of it, UV for protection makes sense but the glas has to be comparable to the lense.
4:44 Camera on the handlebar is a horrible idea. I recommend to have the camera on the helmet. I ride with a full face helmet, with Gnartec Ultimate chin mount. No stabilization, it's not needed if you use chin cam setup. I use Go Pro Hero 7 Black with PeauPro87 3.37mm no distortion lens.
I learned something again. Thanks!
Awesome video man 😊 really appreciate it
Very interesting, thanks
You're the best, you just saved me some money for my Action 4 however......😊😊😊😊
Filters definitely have their place and purpose in both DSLR and Action cameras. Sure they are not a one size fits all but they do make your camera much more flexible due to the locked aperture. I see them as a very handy tool to have in your arsenal.
Q. How would you take a daytime version of a nightlapse? The only way that i know possible is with a ND1000 filter......so please don't go discounting them.
When you have to capture timelapse footage, ND filter will give you better footage. But there's disadvantage when use in footage action. Purcase it's ok, but use it in selected occasion.
what about using ND filter without the stabilization of the camera, amd then use GyroFlow
i tried, you stil get jitters after gyroflow export, mainly near highlights.
How about GoPro hyperlapse? I want to mount on my bicycle and capture blurred objects caused by slow shutter speed.
I always love finding videos that prove me to be an idiot, by purchasing things I'm being told are worthless. (sigh)
I might talk nonsense since I am a beginner at this but with modern action cams where you can tweak the exposure, shutter speed and ISO, does one even need an ND filter?
You are correct that you can change these settings, but the need for an ND would still be required to get a slower shutter speed than the camera will allow.
@@TheCameraManReviews yeah, that's true. I am basically still in the watch reviews/guids/howtos until my osmo action 4 arrives and it will be my first action cam :)
What about post processing stabilization,ie..insta360
The insta360 is a beast when it comes to stabilisation, and yes can use filters, because the stabilisation in post uses the gyro data from the camera it can smooth out the footage even at lower shutterspeeds.
so what should i do about glare?
What's your thoughts on red and magenta filters for underwater video >3m?
Thanks, very informative.
IME, ND and polarizers are usually used when the camera is locked off. Agree 100% on UV filters they makj no difference with digital cameras/recordings.
But if you add a gymbal then the ND filters would be more effective. Extra cost but it is somewhat a solution.
I bought the wrong filters from Polar pro. Now I use the ND filters as extra lenses and shoot in full auto, the only action my Osmo action 1 sees is hiking and driving the freeways
By setting shutter speed to Auto , can't we get stabilization when using ND Filter ? Because I see that Over Exposure can be normalised only using ND Filter. I am planning to buy one now. Please answer my doubt.
UV filters is more like protection to your lens when you direct your lens in the sunlight so you wont damage your lens nor your unit, at least thats what I learn back in DSLR days, that's why there's nothing much added effect on it ...
Very new here, please help, I want to record my scooter + hiking holiday on DJI action 4 camera in 4k 30 fps rocksteady on. Does that mean that you do not recommend 1/60 shutterspeed ? (With no ND filter). Which shutterspeed do you recommend if no nd filter ?
film photographers used the UV filter to protect the lens, so you didn't need to mess with a lens cap.
how about stabilize it in post? Will that work?
It all makes sense for action cameras. ND filters are only useful in limited scenarios on them. Same for CPL filters. As for UV filters; only useful as a replacement for a scratched lens or protection.
On drones, DSLRs, Video cameras and some other cameras though they are very useful (except UV filters which are only useful for protection).
yup. this makes sense. thanks. 😊
With the native stabilization turned off, and third party software like Gyroflow used, ND fitters do serve a purpose of correcting exposure for blown out highlights
Gyroflow need minimum 1/200 sutter speed for stabilization the video.
@@riajulbhuiyan4148 Gyroflow does a nice job for me at 1/120 shutter speed (and 1/240 during daylight) I live in a PAL 50 Hz country, so I use 1/100 at night, and increase the ISO slightly
Would you say the same thing for drone cameras
thaks for saving my money which i can use to buy some other apparatus.
Got it! ND filters on action cameras are trash with stabilitation mode on 😅😅 and I bought an action camera not to use a gimbal
you tell the truth. your clip is so helpful for me
I came here to learn what shutter speed i need to use to properly capture your hand gestures w/o motion blur
For video you set the shutter to double your frame rate. So say you record at 60fps, your shutter speed u would set to 1/120 . This will give you the perfect amount of motion blur. To remove motion blur increase ss.
first of all, people use these filters badly, they forget (I don't know how you can forget) that sports cameras use digital stabilization, otherwise post-production. people listened to the talk of filmmakers about the 180 rule, but probably everyone's brain evaporated, because they did not notice that this rule is mentioned on the example of cameras with optical stabilization, only flycam or gimbal stabilizers. sports cameras for smooth stabilization often need 1/240 or even 1/480 of a second! so you can use these filters, but the principle of use is completely different if someone is not going to mount a sports camera on a gimbal.
maybe my brain evaporated, but do you mean action cameras can use these filters but with other "rule", so that the motion blur can be done afterwards, say in premiere?
So from what I understood... If you have a relatively stable. Recording it might be worth it?!
Yep! spot on.
Wow I shouldn't have been watching UA-cam that late I could barely write. I meant, if your recording is relatively stable and doesn't require rocksteady, the filters can be nice and handy. Would work great as well for pictures I assume
The question is, why do companies still use sensor data for stabilization instead of gyro sensors that solve this problem?
Companies use both sensor data and gyro sensors for action camera stabilization, but each plays a different role in achieving the best possible results.
Sensor Data vs. Gyro Sensors:
Sensor Data: This refers to the combination of various inputs from the camera's sensors, like accelerometers, gyroscopes, and sometimes even optical sensors. Accelerometers measure linear movements (such as tilts and shakes), while gyroscopes measure rotational movements. Combining all this sensor data helps to build a full picture of the camera's motion.
Gyro Sensors: These measure angular velocity (rotation around axes) and are indeed crucial for stabilizing footage, especially for rotational movements. Modern gyro-based electronic image stabilization (EIS) uses gyro data to adjust each frame accordingly.
Why Not Only Gyro?:
Completeness: Gyro sensors alone detect rotational movement, but don’t capture all types of motion, such as linear movement (e.g., a camera being jostled forward or sideways). Therefore, accelerometers and other sensors are often included to complement the gyro data.
Post-Processing Capabilities: Many stabilization systems, especially on higher-end action cameras, use sensor fusion-combining gyro data with accelerometer data, and sometimes GPS or other environmental data to improve the quality of stabilization. This data combination gives more accurate information for correcting movement.
Real-Time vs. Post-Processing: Some stabilization methods (like EIS) happen in real-time using gyro data, but sensor data from other components can improve stabilization in post-processing. Companies like GoPro use gyro data and video frame analysis to create highly stable video even when shooting in extreme conditions. This extra sensor data helps fine-tune the stabilization algorithms.
Cost and Power Efficiency: Using a combination of data is often more power-efficient and cost-effective than using high-end gyro sensors alone. It also gives flexibility for future software updates to improve stabilization using the same hardware.
In essence, action cameras use gyro sensors for stabilization, but they are typically supplemented with other sensor data for a more accurate and robust stabilization effect.
@brandonlanois1734 I mean sensors (any kind except matrix) vs matrix 😉. GoPro doesn't not stabilize good in night conditions or with ND filters. Why? Because they don't use EIS (data from sensors). That's my opinion, but your comment is very helpful.
@@FoHsi Ok, I just copied the reply of chat gpt :)
I wish I saw your video before buying those ridiculous fiters😂😂😂
thanks for the video
This is not exactly correct... This is only an issue in hard mounted solutions. Any body mounted solutions don't get high frequency vibrations and you're only worried about keeping the image in frame. The smoother motion blur is way more critical for good looking action shots especially with high-speed moving shots (MTB, motorcycle, snowboarding/skiing).
With 1/50 or 1/60 it does snot require high frequency vibrations to get motion blur from unwanted motions.
Great info and thanks for sharing. But you only tested using ND filters with lots of movement. I am assuming with low movement, such as walking, that there is very little difference in stabilization between using or not using ND filters on an Action cam. So really, the only one we may need is the UV filter just to protect the lens. And look at all of these UA-camr influencers praising all of the filter sets to pad their wallets.
That is true, the path I rode on is extremely bumpy, far worse than it looks. Whilst walking or keeping the camera more stable you will of course get away with lower SS. 🙂
Thanks
ND filters our PL you can use them just put your image stabilization off and use gimbal et voila
Then stabilisation off if you don’t need it
some people, like me, have problems listening to background music when trying to focus on a narrative. I would much appreciate to listen to your voice only - music gets quite disruptive trying to follow your explanations and comprehend them.
Though painful to follow, still a good compilation
🤝
Brillant
It's too bad u based your ND argument on this specific usecase. The little bicycle on a bumpy road. You should've shown what the satbilisation looks like in different use cases. On foot/water/automotive etc. For my case (motorcycle) going to 25fps with 180 shutter angle and rocksteady on, the footage looks mint. So you're argument holds up, but only in specific situations you have to add.
So the ONLY time an ND filter makes even a little bit of sense for an action camera, is if you are not in motion, but are filming something IN motion.
One of the dumber advices I have seen in a while. I am not even going to go into specifics, but every single photographer or drone pilot or basically anyone that uses cameras im high sunlight (and is remotely keen to make good looking video) is using ND filters. And here comes the guy simply advising not to purchase them. People, you should really select what (who) you watch on UA-cam. That's the downside of mass platforms. Everyone gets to say something