Keep the cedar fair system. Don't make the pricing insane or I'll just go to independent parks. We went to 7 parks this year. 6 cedar fair and 1 six flags.
One idea that came to me to get around people wanting to go to the major parks without having to spend a boatload for all the parks is to divide the all-park passport and have a choose-your-parks passport that could allow you access to the parks of your choosing in the new Six Flags chain. You could tier it where the more you pay the more parks you gain access to - have one that accesses you to up to 5 parks, half the parks, and all the parks - or something on those lines
That's what I've been saying for months now. Cafeteria style. One person wants a SF Great America and CFCedar Point two-park pass. Someone else wants that plus CF Kings Island as a three-park pass. Several price points gives consumers options. Most people don't travel the continent going to parks.....what a bunch of weirdos. The audience for a pass for every park in the "Cedar Flags" portfolio is not a huge number of people.
I think Ryan was missing one major fact in his argument that the government approval from the Justice department was required for the merger to be approved and even that had an issue of paperwork also SIX shareholders had to approve the merger in March. Cedar Fair was already in the process for 2025 plans. So this fact would not make you start a project until you knew it was green lit to start and not waste time and resources for combining the parks season pass systems. Considering the approval was mid year there was no way for the logistics to occur in combining the parks season pass program. This might be a consideration next year as an option of upgrade or add ons. 2026 will be the year of the all parks expansion.
Fair point; however, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t outline a plan, or at least start thinking about it. Matt Ouimet put on LinkedIn that he left because of the impending merger. He resigned in October. So not only was he pretty confident that the merger would happen a month before it was announced but also had presumably a fair amount of time to think about this decision. That gives them, what? A year to come up with a plan? I stand by what I said, I think they know what needs to be done (flush all passes and start over) but they don’t want to deliver that news, or are looking for a workaround. We missed you at the meetup Saturday!
Been keeping an eye on this - currently have prestige, passport, and all available add ons for me and my kids plus SF Diamond membership. Was hoping I could drop the diamond and have the add ons port over to SF even if it is a bit more since we pay a bit for that. I’m already having doubts about 2025 though. It’s expensive and we’ve been to CP and KI ~25x each with FL for the last several years so maybe it’s time to save some money and take a year off.
Don, I know you have some pull. This reduction of operating schedule is REALLY making me reconsider a 2025 pass for the 8 people in our family. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way. It feels like the value has been cheapened to a point it isn't worth it. There are business reasons behind the schedule reduction, but KI may see a loss of patrons if they keep the current schedule up. Hell, I don't even care if it costs more for a pass, we want the old schedule back. Open weekdays into September until 10pm and 11pm on weekends. We need to time outside of the "summer vacation" schedule to enjoy the park without a bazillion, terribly behaved kids running around. Just my thoughts.
Forgive me if its revisionist history but i thought this was touched on when the merger was first announced. It would be a loflgistical nightmare to attempt to install a system without enough data to know the most effective way to price it.
I'm all for keeping it simple. All park option includes cedar fair and six flags. Doing all these different passes for different parks and legacy parks is just too confusing. People already get confused with what is out there as it is.
Okay but ya can't just have it like that...they will lose money big time. If SF passes brought in 100 million and CF passes brought in 100 million they gotta make sure they can still keep the same revenue or the stab themselves...passes should be a lot more since it's now almost 26 total parks
You are way ahead of yourselves. They just merged. They need to incorporate 2 systems into one, with every element. Admissions, Food, Drinks, Parking, Fast Pass. They are not even going to start making a plan until it's official. 2 completely different companies, 2 sets of executives. You need to expect it to take 2 years and maybe 3. I'm not sure what company you work for, that can make a decision and have a result in 6 months.
All of the PARKS (legacy Six Flags and legacy Cedar Fair) will be included on the passes, but the ADD ONS (food, drink, Fastlane, Flashpass plans, etc) will not work at the legacy parks opposote where you purchase your pass from. Confusing to people? Yea probably. But if the pricing we've seen at Schlitterbahn is close to the same throughout, I think the value is pretty good and quite frankly, they are still selling the passes too cheaply. I suspect they will get the addons included for 2026. There is probably a lot of IT work that needs to be done to make everything work nicely. It is disappointing they didn't have this worked out, but its hard to argue that getting into 40 parks (including CP, KI, Magic Mountain, Great Adventure, Great America, Knotts, etc) for somewhere around $200 is a bad value.
You should have the option to 'Add-on' CF or Six Flags park. While I agree they should have foreseen this but 'what if' the merger did not go through and they spent resources, time and money figuring out how to merge the two systems for season passes. Both companies invested alot of capital into their systems.
I really don’t think there are many overlapping markets. It would be easier to wipe the slate clean and adjust the terms on the six flags passes for next year and then come 2026 do the restart on passes and force people to choose. I have a feeling pricing will need to be closer to six flags pricing for them to retain the current six flags pass holders, that would benefit current Cedar fair pass holders and might incentivize people to get a pass as well.
Six Flags Magic Mountain (Valencia, CA) Six Flags Great Adventure (Jackson, NJ) Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL) Six Flags Over Texas (Arlington, TX) Six Flags Fiesta Texas (San Antonio, TX) Six Flags Over Georgia (Austell, GA)
I agree its very important. But I think its best to just wait and see. I would wager that Legacy Six Flags people will have higher prices.. even if its not as much as legacy Cedar Fair the first year. This merger is supposed to bring more parks to the same standard and its also supposed to save Six Flags money. I think it'll all get sorted eventually.. personally I cant be too invested though. Most wouldnt agree.. but I would like to see Regional multi-park passes. (The midwest pass, East coast, Southwest pass etc).. that could bundle six and cedar fair parks in one, to warrant a barely higher price.. and then if you want to have a true all-park option.. its gotta be more expensive than what CF saw before.. but it would then have to actually honor that everywhere. Coms would need to be sorted for sure. Ill just wait and see.. if they mess up, ppl will let them know one way or another. Speaking of rockband live.. reminds me of what Showplace did in summers when a formal show wasnt there... do we remember in 05 when they had a singing contest and in conjunction with it had names like Taniya (havent heard of her since).... and also a little boy group called... The Jonas Brothers 😅 this was JUST before they had their super huge break
Here's one thing that could get done easy for all these "designer" specialty passes and a few "lifetime" passes that are out there floating around.....keep them exactly as those were....frozen in time..and let them continue to exist as if this merger never happened. Problem solved. The new "Cedar Flags" rolls out their season pass program, whatever it might look like and include, there might be season pass options which are better deals than these old "designer" and "lifetime" passes. Holders of those special old passes can either stay exactly where they were with what they had or upgrade to whatever is new and possibly better. An Why would Cedar Flags spend a great deal of time mapping out a season pass system a year ago for a merger that might not even happen??? Now we are here merged, invest the time and resources on building a season pass system and address any special situations with "designer" and "lifetime" passes.
None of the rumors were wrong. They pass works “some time next year” albeit earlier than we feared. Also, the add ons don’t work at the legacy parks, which is also reported by the X post. Certainly not a worse case scenario, but certainly not ideal. Although the other parks are much better at communication than KI so the messaging is going to be difficult to get out for them.
You are in the minority with that opinion. I'm sorry that your life is lacking in joy that you cannot enjoy bubbles. I thought it was wonderful 3 separate times.
Keep the cedar fair system. Don't make the pricing insane or I'll just go to independent parks.
We went to 7 parks this year. 6 cedar fair and 1 six flags.
One idea that came to me to get around people wanting to go to the major parks without having to spend a boatload for all the parks is to divide the all-park passport and have a choose-your-parks passport that could allow you access to the parks of your choosing in the new Six Flags chain. You could tier it where the more you pay the more parks you gain access to - have one that accesses you to up to 5 parks, half the parks, and all the parks - or something on those lines
That's what I've been saying for months now. Cafeteria style. One person wants a SF Great America and CFCedar Point two-park pass. Someone else wants that plus CF Kings Island as a three-park pass. Several price points gives consumers options. Most people don't travel the continent going to parks.....what a bunch of weirdos. The audience for a pass for every park in the "Cedar Flags" portfolio is not a huge number of people.
Well, this didn’t age well lol! The same day I listened to this podcast, today, CP announced the all park pass is good at all SF legacy parks.
I think Ryan was missing one major fact in his argument that the government approval from the Justice department was required for the merger to be approved and even that had an issue of paperwork also SIX shareholders had to approve the merger in March. Cedar Fair was already in the process for 2025 plans. So this fact would not make you start a project until you knew it was green lit to start and not waste time and resources for combining the parks season pass systems. Considering the approval was mid year there was no way for the logistics to occur in combining the parks season pass program. This might be a consideration next year as an option of upgrade or add ons. 2026 will be the year of the all parks expansion.
Fair point; however, that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t outline a plan, or at least start thinking about it. Matt Ouimet put on LinkedIn that he left because of the impending merger. He resigned in October. So not only was he pretty confident that the merger would happen a month before it was announced but also had presumably a fair amount of time to think about this decision. That gives them, what? A year to come up with a plan? I stand by what I said, I think they know what needs to be done (flush all passes and start over) but they don’t want to deliver that news, or are looking for a workaround.
We missed you at the meetup Saturday!
Been keeping an eye on this - currently have prestige, passport, and all available add ons for me and my kids plus SF Diamond membership. Was hoping I could drop the diamond and have the add ons port over to SF even if it is a bit more since we pay a bit for that.
I’m already having doubts about 2025 though. It’s expensive and we’ve been to CP and KI ~25x each with FL for the last several years so maybe it’s time to save some money and take a year off.
And now we have more info about the Six Flags All Park Pass Add-Ons thanks to Schlitterbahn Texas. Six Flags will be included starting January 6th
No add ons, though. Not ideal, but at least not a worst case scenario!
@@TowerTopicsno the Texas Waterpark has added the allpark for six flags as well
Sounds like the 2023 pass fiasco not knowing what your benefits are, and oh subject to change 😮🤔🙄
Don, I know you have some pull. This reduction of operating schedule is REALLY making me reconsider a 2025 pass for the 8 people in our family. I know I'm not the only person who feels this way. It feels like the value has been cheapened to a point it isn't worth it. There are business reasons behind the schedule reduction, but KI may see a loss of patrons if they keep the current schedule up. Hell, I don't even care if it costs more for a pass, we want the old schedule back. Open weekdays into September until 10pm and 11pm on weekends. We need to time outside of the "summer vacation" schedule to enjoy the park without a bazillion, terribly behaved kids running around. Just my thoughts.
EXACTLY! this! So tired of shortened seasons and days! Heck, our winters are so mild for the most part KI could go year round!
Forgive me if its revisionist history but i thought this was touched on when the merger was first announced. It would be a loflgistical nightmare to attempt to install a system without enough data to know the most effective way to price it.
I'm all for keeping it simple. All park option includes cedar fair and six flags. Doing all these different passes for different parks and legacy parks is just too confusing. People already get confused with what is out there as it is.
Okay but ya can't just have it like that...they will lose money big time. If SF passes brought in 100 million and CF passes brought in 100 million they gotta make sure they can still keep the same revenue or the stab themselves...passes should be a lot more since it's now almost 26 total parks
You are way ahead of yourselves. They just merged. They need to incorporate 2 systems into one, with every element. Admissions, Food, Drinks, Parking, Fast Pass. They are not even going to start making a plan until it's official. 2 completely different companies, 2 sets of executives. You need to expect it to take 2 years and maybe 3. I'm not sure what company you work for, that can make a decision and have a result in 6 months.
All of the PARKS (legacy Six Flags and legacy Cedar Fair) will be included on the passes, but the ADD ONS (food, drink, Fastlane, Flashpass plans, etc) will not work at the legacy parks opposote where you purchase your pass from. Confusing to people? Yea probably. But if the pricing we've seen at Schlitterbahn is close to the same throughout, I think the value is pretty good and quite frankly, they are still selling the passes too cheaply.
I suspect they will get the addons included for 2026. There is probably a lot of IT work that needs to be done to make everything work nicely. It is disappointing they didn't have this worked out, but its hard to argue that getting into 40 parks (including CP, KI, Magic Mountain, Great Adventure, Great America, Knotts, etc) for somewhere around $200 is a bad value.
You should have the option to 'Add-on' CF or Six Flags park. While I agree they should have foreseen this but 'what if' the merger did not go through and they spent resources, time and money figuring out how to merge the two systems for season passes. Both companies invested alot of capital into their systems.
I really don’t think there are many overlapping markets. It would be easier to wipe the slate clean and adjust the terms on the six flags passes for next year and then come 2026 do the restart on passes and force people to choose. I have a feeling pricing will need to be closer to six flags pricing for them to retain the current six flags pass holders, that would benefit current Cedar fair pass holders and might incentivize people to get a pass as well.
Six Flags Magic Mountain (Valencia, CA)
Six Flags Great Adventure (Jackson, NJ)
Six Flags Great America (Gurnee, IL)
Six Flags Over Texas (Arlington, TX)
Six Flags Fiesta Texas (San Antonio, TX)
Six Flags Over Georgia (Austell, GA)
I agree its very important. But I think its best to just wait and see.
I would wager that Legacy Six Flags people will have higher prices.. even if its not as much as legacy Cedar Fair the first year. This merger is supposed to bring more parks to the same standard and its also supposed to save Six Flags money.
I think it'll all get sorted eventually.. personally I cant be too invested though.
Most wouldnt agree.. but I would like to see Regional multi-park passes. (The midwest pass, East coast, Southwest pass etc).. that could bundle six and cedar fair parks in one, to warrant a barely higher price.. and then if you want to have a true all-park option.. its gotta be more expensive than what CF saw before.. but it would then have to actually honor that everywhere. Coms would need to be sorted for sure.
Ill just wait and see.. if they mess up, ppl will let them know one way or another.
Speaking of rockband live.. reminds me of what Showplace did in summers when a formal show wasnt there... do we remember in 05 when they had a singing contest and in conjunction with it had names like Taniya (havent heard of her since).... and also a little boy group called... The Jonas Brothers 😅 this was JUST before they had their super huge break
Here's one thing that could get done easy for all these "designer" specialty passes and a few "lifetime" passes that are out there floating around.....keep them exactly as those were....frozen in time..and let them continue to exist as if this merger never happened. Problem solved. The new "Cedar Flags" rolls out their season pass program, whatever it might look like and include, there might be season pass options which are better deals than these old "designer" and "lifetime" passes. Holders of those special old passes can either stay exactly where they were with what they had or upgrade to whatever is new and possibly better.
An
Why would Cedar Flags spend a great deal of time mapping out a season pass system a year ago for a merger that might not even happen??? Now we are here merged, invest the time and resources on building a season pass system and address any special situations with "designer" and "lifetime" passes.
Whoooo first comment! Don, in your experience,how far in advance did your dept find out about additions/removals from the park?
Rant didn't age well.
Never trust internet rumors 😂
All park passes work across parks.
Food and drink do not.
None of the rumors were wrong. They pass works “some time next year” albeit earlier than we feared. Also, the add ons don’t work at the legacy parks, which is also reported by the X post. Certainly not a worse case scenario, but certainly not ideal. Although the other parks are much better at communication than KI so the messaging is going to be difficult to get out for them.
@@TowerTopicsokay, I suppose the rumor was vague enough to claim any outcome fits 😂
But it certainly was in no way complicated.
huh, Grand Carnivale, my home park didn't it this year(carowinds.)
The bubble show was the dumbest thing.I've after Phantom theater.You bring in an untalented no personality guy with bubbles
You are in the minority with that opinion. I'm sorry that your life is lacking in joy that you cannot enjoy bubbles. I thought it was wonderful 3 separate times.
I enjoyed the bubble show and kids love it. I seen it twice. Grab a slushy and go in. If you don’t like it don’t watch it.