"Addicting to play as, and infuriating to fight against." I honestly think this could be said for all the classes in their own ways, like how a good medic can functionally make a team immortal, and also have uber/crits on command. The sniper can one shot from across the map, the heavy is a brick wall with a minigun, the engineer has sentries (sometimes in unexpected locations), dispensers and teleporters. Soldier can fly across the map and has rockets that do 100 damage on hit while also providing splash damage. Honestly, making videos like this for all the classes would a pretty fun series. I'd watch that.
Personally, I'd put scout or sniper as the most hated classes. When you're playing any support or defense class, scout feels like this inescapable fly. It's so damn annoying when you're playing medic, and your teammates refuse to turn around as an enemy scout gets in your face. And for Sniper, the lack of noticeable counterplay (did you dodge, or is the sniper just looking elsewhere? Who knows?) along with the map dominance makes him a pain to deal with. But in all, I think the game does a remarkable job at having no one class always be the one annoying you the most. Depending on play style it always varies (DAMN ENGIS AND SCOUTS AND HEAVIES WHEN I JUST WANNA PLAY TROLLDIER :(((((((( )
Nah. Everyone else I can respect when they kill me. With rare exceptions, when you get killed by Pyro you don't think "that guy won by playing better than me", you think "that guy won by playing an easier class than me". While you had to put your cards on the table and try landing enough shots before he can kill you, he's just holding M1 and hoping you miss. And you won't have to miss much for him to take the win, much less to make it a trade thanks to afterburn.
agreed. Unless it's Gun-Slinger Engi, I just think d" to deal with, much like how Pyro he's annoying and not exactly hard, doesn't feels fair to fight against half the time.
You can't tell the difference between a pyro who understands how to position himself properly, and a pyro who was simply at the right place at the right time.
Honestly, I have little-to-no idea why Lucid's being so hard on himself in the description; he was able to make: +a strong video with a unique angle +said angle made me think of Pyro +in spite of TF2 being mostly stuck in neutral since Jungle Inferno & Blue Moon in 2017/18 +solid editing/composition throughout, that maintains focus & interest without being overbearing or condescending +also, it's a pilot; some things aren't going to necessarily meet or exceed expectations, things'll work out, I promise you To sum up: it's a *rock-solid* video, please don't let heavy-handed criticisms get you down, Lucid You're a guy who makes quality UA-cam videos, some of the best I've seen in a long time, and don't you forget it All that said, I rate this video Five Stars out of Five for excellence, passion, noble intent and dedication to The Craft. Is Nice [:
I have over 2000 hours in TF2, when I started playing the game I was a pyro main because it was the easiest to play, after some time I dropped out of playing pyro ENTIRELY because of the negative feedback the community gave me on the class thinking it was low skill and "for noobs". Many hours later I picked pyro up again and oh MAN I realized how big the COPE was on the side of the community, pyro may not have a high skill floor but the skill ceiling is INSANE and feels super rewarding to pull off combos, reflects, detonator jumps, flanks and supporting your team as a whole. Never listen to what other people say about your class, its a game and you're the one having fun.
I played pyro for 2 hours to get free contract weapons and reached his skillceiling👨🏿👍🏿 I respect dragon's fury pyros since it introduces an extremely fun mechanic and a high skillfloor but it realistically sucks, I don't think it's strong enough to use over airblast when enemies are good. Pyro's matchups suck too, against relatively skilled players it's either a stalemate or pyro loses. Pyro often doesn't choose to engage, it's up to the enemy to be out of position and when they're not if they think they'd lose they could usually choose to not engage (stalemate).
@@kolja783 I had a friend who'd get super pissy about the dragon's fury because the massive range increase meant he couldn't space me as scout. So it's got that, lol. Personally, I think that range, alongside the ability to melt targets, and effectively destroy sentries more than makes up for the slower airblast
Did people really not like this video? The only problems I saw were saying that soldier has no support capabilities (he has the banners) and not editing out the goofed line reads, which imo doesn't warrant the video being removed
Yeah but he isn't build for that pyro can do all that with his basic kit but soldier can't, and he can be used effectively at defence because he cant sustain a fighter for long pyro and especially heavy and engi can. Pyro is good anytime you need an attacker pyro a support pyro an flanker pyro and he can switch from one to the other fluently
Soldier is the bread and butter fighter. He glues the offense together and has access to buffs for that purpose. He can go at the frontline, or wreck havoc behind enemy lines. Pyro is the rank-flexible glue. They can go anywhere to fit any purpose. behind the front line, they're useful for dealing with flankers and sappers, they can pester enemies on the front lines, or ambush behind enemy lines. Also, I'd argue that pyro's speed, airblast, and consistent damage, allows them to defend and bodyguard the support classes more efficiently than soldier just... absorbing damage for them (which isn't as much help when a flanker is focusing down someone else)
You forgot 2 things: The scorch shot projectiles can also be used to "kinda" blast jump similarly to the detonator (albeit of course less efficiently); The bonus constant damage of the backscratcher and the fact that the reduced healing helps building up uber faster for medics...
Yeah you got a lot of things wrong in this video, but it isnt low effort. It is about as easy to see how someone inexperienced with tf2 can come the conclusions you did as it is to see every detail about the theory of tf2's metagame that is misrepresented.
IMHO the degree of permeability to external feedback needs to be addressed as a content creator. Some of it may be good, but being driven by artistic ambition is more important than the public reception. The risk of corruption is also there. You get too far from your vision to please others and you may get caught in a…bubble 😅.
Im surprised you didn’t mention that the third degree’s damage transfer also works vice versa. More often than not you can jump the patient and a surprising amount of players, me included, forget the third degree can do that.
A very well done video. I think the jack analogy is solid for pyro overall, but the analysis is hampered by using offense, defense, and support as the three "roles". The 1-5 scores for each one on each item feel like arbitrarily chosen values, because the three roles are so poorly defined by the game. Items that are good at killing people are generally good at killing both offensively and defensively. Airblast is a support tool, mostly because it defends teammates. Etc. The way you frame the pyro at the end of the video is a lot more clear - he has weapons to handle all ranges, and is good at both killing and protecting teammates. Those are the real "roles" I'd say TF2 has.
32:20 THE Neon Annihilator can destroy sappers, and have great combos with "wet items", and surely it IS must have if you gonna swim, so you underestimate it a lot.
shows ryu when talking about jack of all trades while he is actually really good throughout every game and saying soldier is not a defensive powerhourse should be a crime
could be argued that the soldier is very powerful for defensive and supportive aspects, while stock hes more focused on picks, use a banner and a whip and he can defend AND speed boost his entire team, which is pretty powerful for support, which i would class as a jack of all trades in its own sense but talking stock loadout, the pyro is decent with a bit of everything in a way stock soldier cant be used
You have some mistake (literaly) but the video is really cool! The reserve shooter with 0 in def is sad. I use it in defence strategy only. Protecting my team mates from rocket jumper and demo.
Jacks in lighting games as of late have consistently been very good if not top tier since they can reliably use the mechanics and play the game consistently well always. Its why i dont think you can really compare fighting game jacks to other jacks
You should've kept it on the main chanel. Nobody is perfect, you learn from mistakes. If anything keeping it on the main chanel will show how much better your content gets over time.
I'd just say no. In tf 2 there are generalists and pyro is not one of them. Basically, scout, soldier and demo are generalists wgile the rest are specialists. At least that's what players a lot better than either one of us think.
Lucid you clearly havent played the game long enough to make videos like this. So many of ur "points" are just blatantly wrong, exaggerated or just irrelevant to the conversation as a whole.
@@garamtf2 on the the video is stated that the degreaser has better offence that all the other unlocks, the detonator can knockback enemy players, the 20% damage vulnerability on the powerjack was exaggerated (also didnt mention that its only while active), the hot hand has more support than the neon and still has the same offence, didnt mention that it can remove sappers neither it's combo with the gas passer
stumbling over your words, were you really in a rush to get this out so much as to not make clean takes and edit out or fumbles? also Detonator doesn't do knockback to targets on hit. nor does the stock flaregun the knockback on hit is exclusive to the scorch shot. the detonator's gimmick is mid-air burst detonation. and I'm already seeing the Bias against certain unlocks and weapons. this is a terrible video and fails to cover certain topic appropriately. this ranking metric seems overly arbitrary. since its clearly from bias to or against the weapons being ranked. (overly negative towards Phlog and Scorch shot.) (fails to mention the extinguish mechanic with the thermal thruster.) (complete dismissal of the gas passer.) (fails to mention the redundancy of the axtinguisher in relation to the flaregun.) (doesn't mention Homewrecker use as an offensive tool against enemy engineers.) (Bias and Disregard for Volcano fragment.) (incorrectly notes the Third Degree's Unique trait, it transfers damage though medi beams and similar heal sources.) (fails to mention Neon Annihilator's combo potential with mad milk, jarate or the gas passer as well as similar effect and map locations. also fails to mention it can also be used to remove sappers.) (disregard towards hot hand mobility and the unique distinction it has over all other melees with certain effects and items.) this isn't and over-analysis video is a dogpile on whats left of respect for pyro as a class. you left out so much in terms to details and important information and its clear you were in a hurry to dump this video out. as usual, this is why I don't try your over other TFtubers. let alone my own experience as a TF veteran from 2013. chuck this in the bin and go through a rewrite and maybe a few retakes. because this is just disrespectful.
i HEAVILY disagree with the way you framed this.. pyro is NOT a jack of all trades. pyro is just equally bad at everything you say "stock pyro has 3 weapons MEANT to tear down opponents at alarming speeds"... key word being MEANT, because they dont function as so damage is the key to everything in tf2. if you can kill your opponent before they kill you, you always win.. pyro lacks damage when you compare it to other classes. i like to compare airblast to rocketjumps. you can use it offensively, and defensively equally. at any given time... its just more a tool of repositioning your opponent compared to repositioning yourself. pyro is only as good, as your opponent is bad. the class fails mostly due to it being limited to close range for most of their weapons...without being given any tools of getting in close range, nor more damage to reward once you get finally get into close range thermal thruster was a good addition for fixing the "cant close the gap" problem, but flames lack damage to take out most classes before you die
"Addicting to play as, and infuriating to fight against."
I honestly think this could be said for all the classes in their own ways, like how a good medic can functionally make a team immortal, and also have uber/crits on command. The sniper can one shot from across the map, the heavy is a brick wall with a minigun, the engineer has sentries (sometimes in unexpected locations), dispensers and teleporters. Soldier can fly across the map and has rockets that do 100 damage on hit while also providing splash damage.
Honestly, making videos like this for all the classes would a pretty fun series. I'd watch that.
I ain't reading Allat
Personally, I'd put scout or sniper as the most hated classes.
When you're playing any support or defense class, scout feels like this inescapable fly. It's so damn annoying when you're playing medic, and your teammates refuse to turn around as an enemy scout gets in your face.
And for Sniper, the lack of noticeable counterplay (did you dodge, or is the sniper just looking elsewhere? Who knows?) along with the map dominance makes him a pain to deal with.
But in all, I think the game does a remarkable job at having no one class always be the one annoying you the most. Depending on play style it always varies (DAMN ENGIS AND SCOUTS AND HEAVIES WHEN I JUST WANNA PLAY TROLLDIER :(((((((( )
Nah. Everyone else I can respect when they kill me. With rare exceptions, when you get killed by Pyro you don't think "that guy won by playing better than me", you think "that guy won by playing an easier class than me". While you had to put your cards on the table and try landing enough shots before he can kill you, he's just holding M1 and hoping you miss. And you won't have to miss much for him to take the win, much less to make it a trade thanks to afterburn.
agreed. Unless it's Gun-Slinger Engi, I just think d" to deal with, much like how Pyro he's annoying and not exactly hard, doesn't feels fair to fight against half the time.
You can't tell the difference between a pyro who understands how to position himself properly, and a pyro who was simply at the right place at the right time.
Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than a master of one
Honestly, I have little-to-no idea why Lucid's being so hard on himself in the description; he was able to make:
+a strong video with a unique angle
+said angle made me think of Pyro
+in spite of TF2 being mostly stuck in neutral since Jungle Inferno & Blue Moon in 2017/18
+solid editing/composition throughout, that maintains focus & interest without being overbearing or condescending
+also, it's a pilot; some things aren't going to necessarily meet or exceed expectations, things'll work out, I promise you
To sum up: it's a *rock-solid* video, please don't let heavy-handed criticisms get you down, Lucid
You're a guy who makes quality UA-cam videos, some of the best I've seen in a long time, and don't you forget it
All that said, I rate this video Five Stars out of Five for excellence, passion, noble intent and dedication to The Craft.
Is Nice [:
Lucid ignore what the downers say this is worth main channel status there's soul in it, keep it up bro
What main channel?
When I see a Pyro or flamethrower in any game I think of Tf2. Pyro is iconic.
burnice
*gives a detailed explanation to all pyros secondary
" the gas passer just sucks" moving on 😂😂
I have over 2000 hours in TF2, when I started playing the game I was a pyro main because it was the easiest to play, after some time I dropped out of playing pyro ENTIRELY because of the negative feedback the community gave me on the class thinking it was low skill and "for noobs". Many hours later I picked pyro up again and oh MAN I realized how big the COPE was on the side of the community, pyro may not have a high skill floor but the skill ceiling is INSANE and feels super rewarding to pull off combos, reflects, detonator jumps, flanks and supporting your team as a whole. Never listen to what other people say about your class, its a game and you're the one having fun.
People will cry no matter what class you play because they can't cope with the fact that someone is better than them
I played pyro for 2 hours to get free contract weapons and reached his skillceiling👨🏿👍🏿
I respect dragon's fury pyros since it introduces an extremely fun mechanic and a high skillfloor but it realistically sucks, I don't think it's strong enough to use over airblast when enemies are good. Pyro's matchups suck too, against relatively skilled players it's either a stalemate or pyro loses. Pyro often doesn't choose to engage, it's up to the enemy to be out of position and when they're not if they think they'd lose they could usually choose to not engage (stalemate).
@@kolja783 I had a friend who'd get super pissy about the dragon's fury because the massive range increase meant he couldn't space me as scout.
So it's got that, lol.
Personally, I think that range, alongside the ability to melt targets, and effectively destroy sentries more than makes up for the slower airblast
I still don’t know what tf was wrong with it 😭
I might just have low standards, but great vid tbh
I'm watching this again, I don't care if I saw it yesterday already, because I liked the video
Pocket Soldier is an amazing defensive and support utility.
Did people really not like this video? The only problems I saw were saying that soldier has no support capabilities (he has the banners) and not editing out the goofed line reads, which imo doesn't warrant the video being removed
I think this deserves to be in the main channel.
still has the bit about dragn fury comboing with other pyros lucid my brother in christ i assure you nobody uses it like that.
like i said on the old upload, soldier is great at defense and has some support options in his kit
Yeah but he isn't build for that pyro can do all that with his basic kit but soldier can't, and he can be used effectively at defence because he cant sustain a fighter for long pyro and especially heavy and engi can. Pyro is good anytime you need an attacker pyro a support pyro an flanker pyro and he can switch from one to the other fluently
Soldier is the bread and butter fighter. He glues the offense together and has access to buffs for that purpose. He can go at the frontline, or wreck havoc behind enemy lines.
Pyro is the rank-flexible glue. They can go anywhere to fit any purpose. behind the front line, they're useful for dealing with flankers and sappers, they can pester enemies on the front lines, or ambush behind enemy lines.
Also, I'd argue that pyro's speed, airblast, and consistent damage, allows them to defend and bodyguard the support classes more efficiently than soldier just... absorbing damage for them (which isn't as much help when a flanker is focusing down someone else)
"most players seek greener pastures"
me encroaching 400 hours on pyro:
a video "over analyzing" a character I like? yes please
You had my like at "I can't marry the shotgun"
You forgot 2 things:
The scorch shot projectiles can also be used to "kinda" blast jump similarly to the detonator (albeit of course less efficiently);
The bonus constant damage of the backscratcher and the fact that the reduced healing helps building up uber faster for medics...
1:55 soldier has on of the most support seconderys in the game
i personally think this is a pretty good video. i get being a perfectionist though, but please let yourself enjoy the fruits of your efforts
Yeah you got a lot of things wrong in this video, but it isnt low effort. It is about as easy to see how someone inexperienced with tf2 can come the conclusions you did as it is to see every detail about the theory of tf2's metagame that is misrepresented.
Well made video analyzing an overlooked character in one of my favorite games of all time! Nice work on this video Lucid.
"jack of all trades" is a good description of pyro and man makes me understand why i onetrick pyro lol
Good video, though the real life fireaxe part wasnt really needed, and some lines in the weapon review could have had the fumbling words edited out
Damn this aint even a main channel video and its this good
i think you made a good choice of releasing it despite alot of the repeated dialogue
IMHO the degree of permeability to external feedback needs to be addressed as a content creator. Some of it may be good, but being driven by artistic ambition is more important than the public reception.
The risk of corruption is also there. You get too far from your vision to please others and you may get caught in a…bubble 😅.
Im surprised you didn’t mention that the third degree’s damage transfer also works vice versa. More often than not you can jump the patient and a surprising amount of players, me included, forget the third degree can do that.
Wait, this was posted an hour ago? I remember seeing this video being available to watch two days ago, granted I didn’t watch it.
A very well done video. I think the jack analogy is solid for pyro overall, but the analysis is hampered by using offense, defense, and support as the three "roles". The 1-5 scores for each one on each item feel like arbitrarily chosen values, because the three roles are so poorly defined by the game. Items that are good at killing people are generally good at killing both offensively and defensively. Airblast is a support tool, mostly because it defends teammates. Etc.
The way you frame the pyro at the end of the video is a lot more clear - he has weapons to handle all ranges, and is good at both killing and protecting teammates. Those are the real "roles" I'd say TF2 has.
Rest in peace my rant
I never watched this channel but this is an amazing video!
What? This video was great, the heck you on about
Pyro's specialty is being a cutie patootie
This mans voice is my reward
I can't think of a single thing wrong with this video. Except for a couple audio problems but thats it
32:20 THE Neon Annihilator can destroy sappers, and have great combos with "wet items", and surely it IS must have if you gonna swim, so you underestimate it a lot.
"Shotgun Cons: i cant marry it"
Honestly? Same. Its a satisfying and awesome blast of burst dmg
shows ryu when talking about jack of all trades while he is actually really good throughout every game and saying soldier is not a defensive powerhourse should be a crime
could be argued that the soldier is very powerful for defensive and supportive aspects, while stock hes more focused on picks, use a banner and a whip and he can defend AND speed boost his entire team, which is pretty powerful for support, which i would class as a jack of all trades in its own sense
but talking stock loadout, the pyro is decent with a bit of everything in a way stock soldier cant be used
The neon annihilator can do what the homewrecker does just slightly worse. Its not JUST critting wet opponents.
the UFR after next should watch this video
agree
You have some mistake (literaly) but the video is really cool!
The reserve shooter with 0 in def is sad. I use it in defence strategy only. Protecting my team mates from rocket jumper and demo.
They can never make me hate you Pyro
Hey uh,
I think the hot hand has good support utility because it functions as a diciplinary action boost for you and team mates.
Pyro is Malcolm?
whats so wrong with this video? its well put together and deserves to be on the main channel
Could of just kept it on the main channel and changed the description to say you no longer agree with the unlock take.
Jacks in lighting games as of late have consistently been very good if not top tier since they can reliably use the mechanics and play the game consistently well always. Its why i dont think you can really compare fighting game jacks to other jacks
I dont even know who you are but this video is really good
I liked the video, I thought it was good for the main channel.
PYRO IS A DEFENCE CLASS! what I mean is he's defence for actual players aka a bodyguard
Pyro made his own flanetrower he is handy with tools that is why he is friends with engie
18:12 rip to this medic
What about the neon gas passer combo?
this ain’t bad man might need some tweaks but it’s fine
You should've kept it on the main chanel. Nobody is perfect, you learn from mistakes. If anything keeping it on the main chanel will show how much better your content gets over time.
It still better to fight pyro main instead of sniper main tbh
How come the soldier doesnt have any supporting capabilities
Banners, disciplinary action, cow mangler’s alt-fire. He has plenty of support options.
Neon Annihilator also removes sappers
Homewrecker does it in 1 hit, neither of them should be able to destroy sappers tho.
@@Tony-xj1lj But neon is more balanced the homewrecker, and it does more damage to the 9 classes (if we don't factor in random crits)
middle childs rise up!!!!!!!!!!
What's with the Fire Axe section? Are you padding the video?
Cmon man everyone makes bad videos you don’t have to take them down and reupload.
i thought this was main channel stuff, why isn't it over there?
Lmao he started hiccuping mid-video
I thought this video was appropriate for the main channel, until you started leaving in first takes. jk this video is still good.
I'd just say no.
In tf 2 there are generalists and pyro is not one of them.
Basically, scout, soldier and demo are generalists wgile the rest are specialists.
At least that's what players a lot better than either one of us think.
Analysing my ass lmfao
3:55 HER pyro is female MAN
I am a pyro main
No one asked but yeah
I main the arson man
ai generated script xdd
I like the video. I just think your wrong but we are allowed to disagree :) Not sure what hate there is but aye sorry you had to deal with that
Pyro is a woman and always has been.
Airblast
Lucid you clearly havent played the game long enough to make videos like this. So many of ur "points" are just blatantly wrong, exaggerated or just irrelevant to the conversation as a whole.
So what are the points exactly?
@@garamtf2 one point i found is that he said the reserve shooter mini-crits airblasted targets (it doesn't)
mathias u are a god
@@garamtf2 on the the video is stated that the degreaser has better offence that all the other unlocks, the detonator can knockback enemy players, the 20% damage vulnerability on the powerjack was exaggerated (also didnt mention that its only while active), the hot hand has more support than the neon and still has the same offence, didnt mention that it can remove sappers neither it's combo with the gas passer
@@domawsyou are underage
HMMMMMPGH !!!!
stumbling over your words, were you really in a rush to get this out so much as to not make clean takes and edit out or fumbles?
also Detonator doesn't do knockback to targets on hit. nor does the stock flaregun the knockback on hit is exclusive to the scorch shot.
the detonator's gimmick is mid-air burst detonation.
and I'm already seeing the Bias against certain unlocks and weapons.
this is a terrible video and fails to cover certain topic appropriately.
this ranking metric seems overly arbitrary. since its clearly from bias to or against the weapons being ranked.
(overly negative towards Phlog and Scorch shot.)
(fails to mention the extinguish mechanic with the thermal thruster.)
(complete dismissal of the gas passer.)
(fails to mention the redundancy of the axtinguisher in relation to the flaregun.)
(doesn't mention Homewrecker use as an offensive tool against enemy engineers.)
(Bias and Disregard for Volcano fragment.)
(incorrectly notes the Third Degree's Unique trait, it transfers damage though medi beams and similar heal sources.)
(fails to mention Neon Annihilator's combo potential with mad milk, jarate or the gas passer as well as similar effect and map locations. also fails to mention it can also be used to remove sappers.)
(disregard towards hot hand mobility and the unique distinction it has over all other melees with certain effects and items.)
this isn't and over-analysis video is a dogpile on whats left of respect for pyro as a class. you left out so much in terms to details and important information and its clear you were in a hurry to dump this video out.
as usual, this is why I don't try your over other TFtubers.
let alone my own experience as a TF veteran from 2013.
chuck this in the bin and go through a rewrite and maybe a few retakes.
because this is just disrespectful.
i HEAVILY disagree with the way you framed this.. pyro is NOT a jack of all trades. pyro is just equally bad at everything
you say "stock pyro has 3 weapons MEANT to tear down opponents at alarming speeds"... key word being MEANT, because they dont function as so
damage is the key to everything in tf2. if you can kill your opponent before they kill you, you always win.. pyro lacks damage when you compare it to other classes.
i like to compare airblast to rocketjumps. you can use it offensively, and defensively equally. at any given time... its just more a tool of repositioning your opponent compared to repositioning yourself.
pyro is only as good, as your opponent is bad. the class fails mostly due to it being limited to close range for most of their weapons...without being given any tools of getting in close range, nor more damage to reward once you get finally get into close range
thermal thruster was a good addition for fixing the "cant close the gap" problem, but flames lack damage to take out most classes before you die
wtf are talking about, this video is great
(949)-PYRO-HELP