🌟Hey, if you're struggling with low-end performance, I might have something in my pack that could help! Atlas - Low End Tools: www.mercurialtones.com/atlas-low-end-tools
I've already knew phase cancelling, but as soon as i've seen physical illustration of it i was like SUBSCRIBE SUB JUST SUB NOW I SENSE QUALITY MATERIAL
For whatever reason, seeing you demonstrate these ideas with props and markers/paper has helped me finally understand phase cancelation! Using things to explain concepts outside of the DAW before diving into it makes me think about it differently. You do such a great job explaining things!! Thank you!
I enjoy making those real world demonstrations as well. This one took me some time to conceptualise and build it, but hopefully it will make it easier to understand when you see it 😊
Another good thing to think about is always checking the mono compatability of your whole track doing an A - B test because most club sound systems are mono. If stuff is out of phase or the whole track has lots of stereo then it could sound amazing on headphones or speakers, but the moment you play it out on a big sound system it'll start phasing and you lose whole chunks of sound Also if you're using the high pass and low pass technique to replace the sub bass with a sine wave then it's generally best to do it in parallel by using groups in the chain, same way she did with the EQ3, and using tasteful amounts of distortion on the sub to provide extra harmonics that fill the space between the two sounds. Main reason I recommend going parallel rather than going for seperate tracks is to prevent your project getting too messy, but it also means you can easily add effects to the high end and low end at the same time. Great video as always Alice!!
@@lennartstein3024 it's what we've been taught in my uni course. I've also got a few friends who own sound systems, they're all mono. maybe it's different in other countries, but most club systems in the UK are mono. the key word there is most. it makes sense too, you don't want one side of the room to have a different listening experience than the other side of the room
@@allixismad Still not quite correct to say ‘most’. Where mono is mostly used is in venues with strange shapes or large enough to require multiple speakers across the venue to keep a consistent level throughout. A large venue with a large stage and therefore a wide stereo field doesn’t specifically require outright summing to mono, some width can be retained. Overall I’ve found anywhere with a very obvious “this is the stage and this is the sound system” type layout to be stereo and could pan parts if I wished, regardless of frequency, whereas somewhere that doesn’t really have a dedicated place for performers or DJ’s is generally mono. Even been to shows using surround setups.
@@3rdStoreyChemist whilst true, you can’t depend on all sound systems being the same as of course they aren’t. Therefore mono compatibility is still hugely important, and not just for club sound either - FM radio still happens to be a thing, and stereo / mono FM signals are also unstable and can’t be depended on. Therefore, you compromise with having mono in the right areas in the low end, but also with enough width and stereo information in other areas in order to ensure performance on as many playback systems and situations as possible. Mono bass is also important for vinyl cutting, as whilst you obviously can have stereo vinyl cut, too much stereo information can cause grooves to be cut too wide, and can lead to poor stylus tracking, more skips etc. Regardless of what’s on the other end, a good mono compatible mix is still required, and will be for the foreseeable future’
Great vid and very well explained! Being self taught and doing music prod as a hobby, so many youtube videos tell you "rules" like "the bass should be mono" or "lowpass everything" but don't tell you why. I knew phase cancellation was a thing, but not how to avoid it other than to avoid certain methods of widening the stereo image (which limits creativity). I'm a very visual learner and don't have the experienced ear that seasoned producers do, so when you showed the difference in the signal before / after compression and when you replaced the fundamental that was especially helpful for me. Cheers and keep up the great content!
Oh man I've done the Hard Way technique a bunch of times in the past instinctually always wondering if I was a fool for doing so. So glad to see somebody else recommend it and make such an articulate tutorial. You've earned my sub and I'll be looking at more of your content during my downtime!
I was having trouble understanding the words with the accent, so I decided to read the caption. Apparently the closed caption program has a problem with the accent too. It came out pretty weird.
The trick with removing the fundamental is something I have been doing for a long time, and it's really cool that someone else had the same idea! It's very nice to use wavetable plugins like Vital and Serum for bass, because they let you do this and you can create really good sounding bass patches that translate well to mono. I think the biggest point is that for the absolute tightest bass you want your sub frequencies to always be mono, and usually the most clean of a sine wave as possible. Obviously, this is sometimes left in as a creative decision so there are no hard rules of course.
I've heard people explain the problem, but you're the first person who offered a simple explanation of what to do about it AND WHY. You are so legit. I appreciate you immensely. Thank you.
Ey yo, Alice has no right to go this hard! This was educational, useful, pragmatic, entertaining presented in the most slickest way. I've never seen you or you content before. You just popped up. But I'm glad it did, cause this was nice and you've taught me something new. I'm a fan
I find this video deeply philosophical: several tips, such as the Pareto curve, overproducing and perfectionism, suitably modified, can be applied to other types of artistic production or even in everyday life. I, for example, destroyed my existence with excessive perfectionism that often ended up blocking me. I just discovered this channel: I signed up immediately!
Hands down one of the best production channels on youtube. It's crazy how your quality just keeps improving and you always have more tips to share. Thank you so much!
An easy way to explain cancellation is to say the opposites cancel each other the same way that -1 + 1 = 0. That trick to totally remove the fundamental in xerum is awesome, thanks! Oh, also... in some genres like DNB often the volume variation from phase cancellation is actually very desirable, so it's not always a problem. Cheers!
This is such a better way to explain how to address issues with production... These techniques can be passed across so many issues, unlike most "how to self help" videos which give generic advice as if they're a one size fits all solution, this gets right to the core, and it's also just addressed an issue I've been having recently with my mid / side eq on my bass, thanks once again Alice ❤️
idk how but i somehow came up with the hard solution myself some months ago by creating a rack in ableton that separates everything above 100Hz and below. that way i can control the sub and the high one and keep the punch of sub frequencies
I'm not great with numbers and super technical terms. Im a very visual learner and you did a great job of illustrating the concept for me in a way that is genuinely understandable.
Another thing to watch out for (especially if using analog synths) is if the start of the notes are in phase. Meaning the oscillators may be drifting in and out of tune, but looking at the waveforms and just sliding the clips slightly to line up the rising or falling edges at the start of the part can help correct a lot of the phase issues. Then you can also apply these techniques after if needed. This also works between multiple instruments. Like you can examine if the first peaks of the kick and bass are aligned with one another, for example, so that one is not pulling away from the other on the transient.
Yep, Most true stereo basses means each channel has differing wave forms that are independent of one another. On the other hand, dealing w a true mono bass guitar or synth bass that is not true stereo, can sound great up the middle..
Something important to note is why you would pick one way or the other and it usually applies to what you want to do with your low end in the first place. The most typical use case is when you’re using a reese bass and want to preserve the movement from phase cancellation. Even though the sun frequencies come in and out, there is a beating pulse that can sometimes be desirable. In this case go for the soft fix issues. The easier route on the other hand is the hard method because it guarantees a solid low end. One thing I’d keep in mind is trying match your mod and high layer with the appropriate low end wave form (you don’t have to, just makes the entire sound more cohesive sometimes) Great video and demonstrations^
"Remove fundamental" feature of Serum is awesome and quite unique. I haven't seen that in other synths. Since I don't own Serum, I use hi-pass filter and keytracking in Pigments or find and remove manually the fundamental harmonic in Vital's wavetable editor. Putting static EQ in FX chain has a downside - when you play different note, your frequency 'split' point should move as well, so doing that with keytracked hi-pass filter and sub is a better workaround.
As a venue sound engineer I usually use mono bass, especially one side mono to counter inline interference (not a stereo to mono), because we can steer the bass on the dance floor by creating line wavefronts. If we don't, we create 3d interference meaning; places on the dance floor where is no bass and places where is a crazy amount of bass. And we have to fight the acoustics of the room reflexions and so, this all destroys the bass, making it sound untight, and as an electronicfile I love crisp and tight powerful bass have to say 100Hz and up, love to stay stereo
How I fix this problem in one instance in serum : edit both oscillators, select process, remove fundamental, engage the sub oscillator, done. (Sorry I don’t mean to hiJack ur video) I have never seen someone explain things so well! Outstanding! Bravo! 👏
I'm serum I just remove the fundamental and then replace it with another 1 voice oscillator. I then use a limiter to help slightly flatten out the signal. It's a mix of the hard and soft solutions and works very well
@@somatronic If you make a synth in serum there is a little pencil icon in the top right corner of each wave table. If you click on that it gives you options to change the wave table itself. In the top of serum you'll see a lot of bars representing each frequency present by the wave table. Turn the first one all the way down and the wave table will visibly change. The fundamental frequency will no longer be produced, yet all the others will be.
cool, thank you. Was always separating the sub from bass with EQ, and mono-ing only sub, but gonna try the "remove fundamental" approach, as this way seems to be a lil cleaner
This is an interesting take on phase cancellation for beginners, but as someone who's most likely been in the production industry longer than you; i'll explain why we use mono for bass. This is because when playing your music at a venue, most will have a Left/Right in for the mixers being used in the booth. This is why in bass music, the sub (sine) and kick are most prevalently heard. The rest is done through proper mid/side routing, and depending on what you make? could involve a multitude of effects such as stereo shaping, expansion, etc. So, to not make this too long, everything below 200hz gets the mono treatment. afterwards, you can expand (And of course its not as simple as just making it mono, most use Ozone imager for this, so good start; but there's levels to go on this topic.
I think there's more fundamental physical explanation for why mono is typically used for bass in a true stereo environment. Stereo effects are produced due to the distance between our ears, or microphones or whatever. For lower frequencies in nature, the phase differences our ears perceive is lesser than for higher frequencies, because the wavelength is longer (so the time delay between the signals is lesser relative to the wavelength). And so our ears would need to be further apart to perceive the same kind of phasing effect perceived on higher frequencies. As such, it's not surprising that forcing a stereo effect on the bass in a headphone setup doesn't sound very natural or pleasing
@@Elizareads This is very true. Most bass that ranges between the 35-200hz areas sound rather unnatural when set to stereo, which is why the image is generally tightened in mastering for the lower ends, with expansion towards the mid-high ranges, but i can tell i'm talking to someone that's quite versed in stereo fielding and mid-side compression technique, so that one's for the readers for certain. While i see this as a great explanation for stereo phase cancellation, and how to avoid it, i can't say the video itself is great for theory on bass design. Most times, you wont deal with phase issues in those ranges, as the only thing hitting those frequency ranges are going to consist of the kick, and sub bass layers of a synth/VST/AU patch. Higher frequencies? There's definitely a lot of room for marginal errors, as there's more going on in the mids and highs, as thats where most of the activity is going on considering vocals, snares, and other elements of any given track are taking place there, rather than the lower frequencies. I appreciate your insight on this, and hope this comment thread turns into something educational for up-and-coming producers.
Wow I never had anybody break it down like that. Thank you u made it clear on what I'm trying to do with this low end. I was really wondering how I was supposed to go about splitting up my bass. Thank you!!
Woah! Thnx , I never knew that is phasing is such big of an issue! Your explanations are so intriguing to watch all the time when it is just two waves , its easy to understand , but for multiple voices and to many sounds, it gets messier and then there's no turning back hehe!
I have been producing for about 5 years- a lot of UA-cam tutorials consumed. Your videos have been some of the the most profound ones I have found in terms of giving me another perspective….you are a gifted teacher and I thank you!! Keep them coming
you could also just turn down the unisono width in serum if you actually want a wobblier low end (sometimes desirable with reeses actually) but also keep it mono. you can also use the high pass filter with key tracking in serum (although removing fundamental is the best way) if you want to go the old school way but also have the filter move with the pitch, imo that's a bit better than using a static filter :)
This video was SO GOOD. Though I knew about phase cancelation, I never understood any of the solutions before today. I love your super clear, to-the-point, visual explanation. One of the best tutorials I have seen for sure.
this is so accessible and I think the genius in that is going unnoticed. You're a very VERY talented educator, this video is so comprehensive but not dense. THANK YOUUUUU
I think there’s a disconnect from what most producers call bass and what actually IS bass. Bass is any low frequencies, also referred to ass sub, typically below 200hz. A reese bass has most of its “meat and potatoes” from mid range. That area can have all sorts of width no problem, but when people are talking about using a mono bass, they mainly are referring to not using unison or chorus on sub frequencies as that can muddy the mix.
This is top notch production. Appreciate the efforts. You could have easily just showed a digital standard depiction of waves but instead you demonstrated this amazing little physics experiment. Truly wonderful!
Your knowledge is so impressive. It turns out that I have been using both of these methods in differing amounts for quite a while. Thanks for sharing!!
You can also split the sound in low and high freqs. If you want no phasing in the lows take a utility and select left or right instead of mono, in this way you get completely get rid off the phase cancelation and you keep the character of the sound intact.
2:39 Although it took me a long long time to realize this, because I am listening in binaural L and R, which is still "Technically" mono, or "Unbalanced Stereo" there is absolutely no change when you put bass mono on. AT ALL!!! And if you had compensated for the volume loss when summing to mono by duplicating the channel, there would not have been a difference coming out of my phone or tv, but I did hear it get super thin on my headphones. This means you are listening to it on a pro audio system if you heard a change both times, because the real misconception is between Stereo and Unbalanced Stereo... And what a Stereo field is and how to create it using parity signals is where the money is at..
Hey Alice, awesome videos. I'm a sound system technician, and owner/operator of a premium quality analog sound system at many UK music festivals, so very well understand comb filtering, cancellations etc. Dave Rat (legendary sound engineer) had a very interesting trick in the live music department. Using two different mics on the kik drum (so non-identical waveforms) but instead of having them as whomph & click, hard-panning each in opposite directions, completely eliminating comb filtering on the kik. I've tried it, and it's awesome!! Don't think I can post a link, but it's called "Problems With Mono Sound From Stereo Speakers" (very interesting) I also do a bit of music production (PC free hardware hobby) and it got me thinking... If you had two kiks which were different, but similar, AND they work well together when summed (for mono compatibility) then you could hard pan them, and completely eliminate all those bass cancellation zones on the dance floor. It could be a magic 'bass everywhere' trick for producers that know. ;) Could maybe be extended to snare too, and maybe bass? I'm working on a trick to stack up all-pass cards on the crossover's EQ (phase modding) to actually 'fix' normal EDM mono bass/kik cancellations, but it's better (and easier) to do it at source. I'll see if I can link in the 1st comment.
Best bass mixing video I've seen, and I've seen a lot, including master classes. She presents several approaches in a concise manner, with pros and cons, important caveats, and methods to both analyze AND alleviate the problems. I knew most of this, but the way she went through it all so fluently and without tangents, made it click much better for me. I feel like I understand my toolkit better. Thank you!!
3:00 Usually, I'm using a limiter and I'm dropping the ceiling until the signal is flat (of course adding gain after). Works for bass/sub-bass or something that doesn't need to have a broad dynamic range.
It really, really depends. I make drum and bass, a genre often played on a PA setup with woofers set to mono in the first place, so often its best to have your mono imaging in a really good place - making the bottom end of 100hz completely mono lets the sub bass sit better under the kick and midbass.
Good content, explained the problem and demonstrated how to solve it, perfect. Going to use this video with my padawans, because people sometimes struggle to understand my tech-nerd train of thought when it comes to basic principles of audio engineering, thanks a lot 😅
What do you think of simply always high passing everything that and using a dedicated sub? I’ve always understood that keeping the natural sub in any synthesized bass sound was a bad idea for two reasons. 1. Any processing would effect not only the mids and highs but the sub itself which you don’t want 2. Uneven amplitude in the sub (which you demonstrated here) Only good reason I could think of is high passing certain sounds even as little as necessary can still noticeably change the timbre in ways you dislike. Some bass sounds sound better because even using gentle filters it’s hard to *only* remove the sub without ruining the sound. But this capability of Serum for example to only remove the fundamental seems like a game changer. Of course this could be accomplished in any synth that allows you to manually draw in your waveforms. So now I *really* don’t see a reason to not use a dedicated, separate sub.
I appreciate the effort here. I also do animations on my (much smaller) channel and I know the enormous amount of time it takes to make everything look this clean and concise! Great explanation also, a very clear way to walk through a confusing topic. ✌
Excellent video!!. What about using mid side, can this be another technique to solve this issue? You can use an EQ for center and another for the sides.
This is a subject I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on and still managed to learn something new (remove fundamental from the wavetable 🤯 GENIUS) Also didn't realize Ozone imager kept the phase intact! I love your videos, please don't ever stop!
Super appreciate the effort you got to visualize things it's fun and helps me understand things. Tips from you are always solid. But your presenting is good to !
4:38 - I don't understand, why the compressor didn't fix the low end... Had the high end more dynamics, so it triggered the comp. first? tnx for the video
Hi Alice, here is what I have found over time with the EQ three, it alters the sound just by being there. I am not sure if this is a universal problem but anytime I go back to an old file where I used EQ three by just turning EQ threes off (and I mean those with all L, M, H, on), the entire sound changes. EQ8 on the other hand is always a safe option as it seems to really keep the original sound wave. Has anyone experienced this?
@@stevecarter8810 Again, phase is dependant to time, delay. You align phase by moving the delayed signal back or forward to align it with whatever you're trying to align it to. Think of drums recording. Mic distances and phase issues this might cause. The ultimate question you align to overheads or to snare. All these have to do with phase shift (like you mentioned), delay, but not flipping. You flip polarity, not phase. Phase rotation you say, yes, a portion of your signal, a frequency, but when you flip an audio file bringing what was in +1 to -1 and vice versa, then we're talking about polarity inversion (flip) no phase flip.
It is interesting that when we are just embedded in software production, we tend to worry too much about fixing things. On the contrary, when we are working with a synthesizer, we tend to take advantage of these natural deviations in the signal, which give dynamics to the music. I understand that some styles expect a certain idomatic behavior in the signal, like ultra bass crushing in a narrow window, but this is just a chain of decisions that no one dares to break. I like it when the producer tries to be experimental. It would be better if everyone was open to that. However, your video is very informative and very helpful in understanding signal behavior and maybe instead of just presenting solutions, I'd like to see advantages as well, just to not give the idea that deviations in signal amplitude due to phase cancellation is inherently a bad thing.❤
Just hit it with a compressor at about 30% with a soft knee and treat the track in post-production with maybe an ultramaximizer plus Plug-In or something and run that at about 70%? There's lots of easy ways to overcome this, especially if you're too stupid to understand all of this stuff like I am
Been on this for a while. It’s why you pan the bass side only(not to be mistaken with stereo). Plus it kinda clears out the center where you can place the kick so they don’t step on each others toes.
Something interesting I tried was this: after splitting a stereo waveform into its constituent parts (bass, vocals, drums, other) using splitter software, I noticed my bass stem was fluctuating a lot (typical when splitting music like this). I loaded my bass stem into Alchemy using the additive synthesis function. The result, as it was resynthesised using pure sine waves, ended up a LOT cleaner and consistent than before! It doesn’t work as well with more complex sounds, but give it a try!
Not sure what you're implying here because it's ultimately irrelevant unless you're going for that less low eq sound, ultimately you still have to use that bass you've dynamically processed and it will make the master dynamics pump on every note regardless of what you do it during production, if you think you're making mix or master dynamics work less it is only because you've sacrificed the low end energy, if you want to do that cut everything and minimise usage of bass frequency but that's a standard that everyone should know. So while what you said is technically true I think it's worth pointing out to those who know no better that incorporating it would be complete waste of time unless like I said you're only going for that sound.
Jeez. Again, dropping knowledge bombs everywhere. What I knew was close but with just a little of your guidance, I've finally got that sound I want. ty
You are a joy to watch, so well explained and so in detail. I wish you all the best with what your doing with one of the best channels I have seen. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
You’re such a knowledgeable engineer. Thanks for sharing your knowledge so legibly. Question about mono compatibility: At what point do we all band together and stop engineering for compatibility with an archaic technology? Imagine if software engineers still engineered for compatibility with Windows XP? It seems like this consideration impacts a bunch of creative decisions which means it limits our creative boundaries :(
Dual mono does not equal stereo, so if you panned them opposite sides it’s just two mono tracks, stereo has to have a difference in any parameter such as a more resonant shelf band on one track and the other having a less significant resonance.
Great video! Would you use similar techniques on an electric bass? I've got an amp track, a DI track and a distortion track, the distortion track is high-passed but the other two are pretty much full range. It sounds good to me but should I be worried about phasing issues and do something akin to these tips?
🌟Hey, if you're struggling with low-end performance, I might have something in my pack that could help!
Atlas - Low End Tools: www.mercurialtones.com/atlas-low-end-tools
Can you speak slower and give a short summary so that I know what this is about please.
How big of an effort do you want to take to illustrate a music making problem? Alice: "yes".
Haha cheers Martin! ❤
Hey go big or go home
I've already knew phase cancelling, but as soon as i've seen physical illustration of it i was like SUBSCRIBE SUB JUST SUB NOW I SENSE QUALITY MATERIAL
Or to quote Brian May (on the music of Queen) "If a job's worth doing, it's worth overdoing!" 😄
well, there are a lot good illustrations of the problem. But it is a first video with great clear explanations how to solve it.
For whatever reason, seeing you demonstrate these ideas with props and markers/paper has helped me finally understand phase cancelation! Using things to explain concepts outside of the DAW before diving into it makes me think about it differently. You do such a great job explaining things!! Thank you!
I enjoy making those real world demonstrations as well. This one took me some time to conceptualise and build it, but hopefully it will make it easier to understand when you see it 😊
Same. It's much appreciated:)
What an embarrassing comment. Are you a child? Lol
Another good thing to think about is always checking the mono compatability of your whole track doing an A - B test because most club sound systems are mono. If stuff is out of phase or the whole track has lots of stereo then it could sound amazing on headphones or speakers, but the moment you play it out on a big sound system it'll start phasing and you lose whole chunks of sound
Also if you're using the high pass and low pass technique to replace the sub bass with a sine wave then it's generally best to do it in parallel by using groups in the chain, same way she did with the EQ3, and using tasteful amounts of distortion on the sub to provide extra harmonics that fill the space between the two sounds. Main reason I recommend going parallel rather than going for seperate tracks is to prevent your project getting too messy, but it also means you can easily add effects to the high end and low end at the same time.
Great video as always Alice!!
ty
saying that most club sound systems are mono is big misinformation.
@@lennartstein3024 it's what we've been taught in my uni course. I've also got a few friends who own sound systems, they're all mono. maybe it's different in other countries, but most club systems in the UK are mono. the key word there is most. it makes sense too, you don't want one side of the room to have a different listening experience than the other side of the room
@@allixismad Still not quite correct to say ‘most’. Where mono is mostly used is in venues with strange shapes or large enough to require multiple speakers across the venue to keep a consistent level throughout. A large venue with a large stage and therefore a wide stereo field doesn’t specifically require outright summing to mono, some width can be retained.
Overall I’ve found anywhere with a very obvious “this is the stage and this is the sound system” type layout to be stereo and could pan parts if I wished, regardless of frequency, whereas somewhere that doesn’t really have a dedicated place for performers or DJ’s is generally mono.
Even been to shows using surround setups.
@@3rdStoreyChemist whilst true, you can’t depend on all sound systems being the same as of course they aren’t. Therefore mono compatibility is still hugely important, and not just for club sound either - FM radio still happens to be a thing, and stereo / mono FM signals are also unstable and can’t be depended on. Therefore, you compromise with having mono in the right areas in the low end, but also with enough width and stereo information in other areas in order to ensure performance on as many playback systems and situations as possible.
Mono bass is also important for vinyl cutting, as whilst you obviously can have stereo vinyl cut, too much stereo information can cause grooves to be cut too wide, and can lead to poor stylus tracking, more skips etc.
Regardless of what’s on the other end, a good mono compatible mix is still required, and will be for the foreseeable future’
Great vid and very well explained! Being self taught and doing music prod as a hobby, so many youtube videos tell you "rules" like "the bass should be mono" or "lowpass everything" but don't tell you why. I knew phase cancellation was a thing, but not how to avoid it other than to avoid certain methods of widening the stereo image (which limits creativity).
I'm a very visual learner and don't have the experienced ear that seasoned producers do, so when you showed the difference in the signal before / after compression and when you replaced the fundamental that was especially helpful for me.
Cheers and keep up the great content!
7:45 where do you get that info that ozone doesn't affect the phase. Are their filters linear phase by default?
Oh man I've done the Hard Way technique a bunch of times in the past instinctually always wondering if I was a fool for doing so.
So glad to see somebody else recommend it and make such an articulate tutorial.
You've earned my sub and I'll be looking at more of your content during my downtime!
FANTASTIC explanation! I haven't thought of the "remove fundamental" option for this, mind blown! 👏👏👏
I was having trouble understanding the words with the accent, so I decided to read the caption. Apparently the closed caption program has a problem with the accent too. It came out pretty weird.
The trick with removing the fundamental is something I have been doing for a long time, and it's really cool that someone else had the same idea! It's very nice to use wavetable plugins like Vital and Serum for bass, because they let you do this and you can create really good sounding bass patches that translate well to mono. I think the biggest point is that for the absolute tightest bass you want your sub frequencies to always be mono, and usually the most clean of a sine wave as possible. Obviously, this is sometimes left in as a creative decision so there are no hard rules of course.
I've heard people explain the problem, but you're the first person who offered a simple explanation of what to do about it AND WHY.
You are so legit.
I appreciate you immensely. Thank you.
Ey yo, Alice has no right to go this hard! This was educational, useful, pragmatic, entertaining presented in the most slickest way.
I've never seen you or you content before. You just popped up.
But I'm glad it did, cause this was nice and you've taught me something new. I'm a fan
I find this video deeply philosophical: several tips, such as the Pareto curve, overproducing and perfectionism, suitably modified, can be applied to other types of artistic production or even in everyday life. I, for example, destroyed my existence with excessive perfectionism that often ended up blocking me. I just discovered this channel: I signed up immediately!
Hands down one of the best production channels on youtube. It's crazy how your quality just keeps improving and you always have more tips to share. Thank you so much!
An easy way to explain cancellation is to say the opposites cancel each other the same way that -1 + 1 = 0.
That trick to totally remove the fundamental in xerum is awesome, thanks!
Oh, also... in some genres like DNB often the volume variation from phase cancellation is actually very desirable, so it's not always a problem. Cheers!
This is such a better way to explain how to address issues with production... These techniques can be passed across so many issues, unlike most "how to self help" videos which give generic advice as if they're a one size fits all solution, this gets right to the core, and it's also just addressed an issue I've been having recently with my mid / side eq on my bass, thanks once again Alice ❤️
Love the content! [but whats up with the crackling and pop noises in your audio?]
idk how but i somehow came up with the hard solution myself some months ago by creating a rack in ableton that separates everything above 100Hz and below. that way i can control the sub and the high one and keep the punch of sub frequencies
I'm not great with numbers and super technical terms. Im a very visual learner and you did a great job of illustrating the concept for me in a way that is genuinely understandable.
Another thing to watch out for (especially if using analog synths) is if the start of the notes are in phase. Meaning the oscillators may be drifting in and out of tune, but looking at the waveforms and just sliding the clips slightly to line up the rising or falling edges at the start of the part can help correct a lot of the phase issues. Then you can also apply these techniques after if needed.
This also works between multiple instruments. Like you can examine if the first peaks of the kick and bass are aligned with one another, for example, so that one is not pulling away from the other on the transient.
Yep, Most true stereo basses means each channel has differing wave forms that are independent of one another. On the other hand, dealing w a true mono bass guitar or synth bass that is not true stereo, can sound great up the middle..
Something important to note is why you would pick one way or the other and it usually applies to what you want to do with your low end in the first place.
The most typical use case is when you’re using a reese bass and want to preserve the movement from phase cancellation. Even though the sun frequencies come in and out, there is a beating pulse that can sometimes be desirable. In this case go for the soft fix issues.
The easier route on the other hand is the hard method because it guarantees a solid low end. One thing I’d keep in mind is trying match your mod and high layer with the appropriate low end wave form (you don’t have to, just makes the entire sound more cohesive sometimes)
Great video and demonstrations^
"Remove fundamental" feature of Serum is awesome and quite unique. I haven't seen that in other synths. Since I don't own Serum, I use hi-pass filter and keytracking in Pigments or find and remove manually the fundamental harmonic in Vital's wavetable editor. Putting static EQ in FX chain has a downside - when you play different note, your frequency 'split' point should move as well, so doing that with keytracked hi-pass filter and sub is a better workaround.
As a venue sound engineer I usually use mono bass, especially one side mono to counter inline interference (not a stereo to mono), because we can steer the bass on the dance floor by creating line wavefronts. If we don't, we create 3d interference meaning; places on the dance floor where is no bass and places where is a crazy amount of bass.
And we have to fight the acoustics of the room reflexions and so, this all destroys the bass, making it sound untight, and as an electronicfile I love crisp and tight powerful bass
have to say 100Hz and up, love to stay stereo
How I fix this problem in one instance in serum : edit both oscillators, select process, remove fundamental, engage the sub oscillator, done. (Sorry I don’t mean to hiJack ur video)
I have never seen someone explain things so well! Outstanding! Bravo! 👏
I'm serum I just remove the fundamental and then replace it with another 1 voice oscillator. I then use a limiter to help slightly flatten out the signal. It's a mix of the hard and soft solutions and works very well
How do you remove the fundamental in Serum? Would like to try that method
@@somatronic watch the video you're watching again
@@somatronic If you make a synth in serum there is a little pencil icon in the top right corner of each wave table. If you click on that it gives you options to change the wave table itself. In the top of serum you'll see a lot of bars representing each frequency present by the wave table. Turn the first one all the way down and the wave table will visibly change. The fundamental frequency will no longer be produced, yet all the others will be.
cool, thank you. Was always separating the sub from bass with EQ, and mono-ing only sub, but gonna try the "remove fundamental" approach, as this way seems to be a lil cleaner
This is an interesting take on phase cancellation for beginners, but as someone who's most likely been in the production industry longer than you; i'll explain why we use mono for bass. This is because when playing your music at a venue, most will have a Left/Right in for the mixers being used in the booth. This is why in bass music, the sub (sine) and kick are most prevalently heard. The rest is done through proper mid/side routing, and depending on what you make? could involve a multitude of effects such as stereo shaping, expansion, etc. So, to not make this too long, everything below 200hz gets the mono treatment. afterwards, you can expand (And of course its not as simple as just making it mono, most use Ozone imager for this, so good start; but there's levels to go on this topic.
I think there's more fundamental physical explanation for why mono is typically used for bass in a true stereo environment.
Stereo effects are produced due to the distance between our ears, or microphones or whatever.
For lower frequencies in nature, the phase differences our ears perceive is lesser than for higher frequencies, because the wavelength is longer (so the time delay between the signals is lesser relative to the wavelength). And so our ears would need to be further apart to perceive the same kind of phasing effect perceived on higher frequencies.
As such, it's not surprising that forcing a stereo effect on the bass in a headphone setup doesn't sound very natural or pleasing
@@Elizareads This is very true. Most bass that ranges between the 35-200hz areas sound rather unnatural when set to stereo, which is why the image is generally tightened in mastering for the lower ends, with expansion towards the mid-high ranges, but i can tell i'm talking to someone that's quite versed in stereo fielding and mid-side compression technique, so that one's for the readers for certain.
While i see this as a great explanation for stereo phase cancellation, and how to avoid it, i can't say the video itself is great for theory on bass design. Most times, you wont deal with phase issues in those ranges, as the only thing hitting those frequency ranges are going to consist of the kick, and sub bass layers of a synth/VST/AU patch. Higher frequencies? There's definitely a lot of room for marginal errors, as there's more going on in the mids and highs, as thats where most of the activity is going on considering vocals, snares, and other elements of any given track are taking place there, rather than the lower frequencies.
I appreciate your insight on this, and hope this comment thread turns into something educational for up-and-coming producers.
Wow I never had anybody break it down like that. Thank you u made it clear on what I'm trying to do with this low end. I was really wondering how I was supposed to go about splitting up my bass. Thank you!!
Woah! Thnx , I never knew that is phasing is such big of an issue!
Your explanations are so intriguing to watch all the time
when it is just two waves , its easy to understand , but for multiple voices and to many sounds, it gets messier and then there's no turning back hehe!
I have been producing for about 5 years- a lot of UA-cam tutorials consumed. Your videos have been some of the the most profound ones I have found in terms of giving me another perspective….you are a gifted teacher and I thank you!! Keep them coming
you could also just turn down the unisono width in serum if you actually want a wobblier low end (sometimes desirable with reeses actually) but also keep it mono. you can also use the high pass filter with key tracking in serum (although removing fundamental is the best way) if you want to go the old school way but also have the filter move with the pitch, imo that's a bit better than using a static filter :)
Really nice and concise video, I have been using the fundamental trick for DNB ever since I saw it in one of your shorts hehe
This video was SO GOOD. Though I knew about phase cancelation, I never understood any of the solutions before today. I love your super clear, to-the-point, visual explanation. One of the best tutorials I have seen for sure.
this is so accessible and I think the genius in that is going unnoticed. You're a very VERY talented educator, this video is so comprehensive but not dense. THANK YOUUUUU
I think there’s a disconnect from what most producers call bass and what actually IS bass. Bass is any low frequencies, also referred to ass sub, typically below 200hz. A reese bass has most of its “meat and potatoes” from mid range. That area can have all sorts of width no problem, but when people are talking about using a mono bass, they mainly are referring to not using unison or chorus on sub frequencies as that can muddy the mix.
This is top notch production. Appreciate the efforts. You could have easily just showed a digital standard depiction of waves but instead you demonstrated this amazing little physics experiment.
Truly wonderful!
Your knowledge is so impressive. It turns out that I have been using both of these methods in differing amounts for quite a while. Thanks for sharing!!
You can also split the sound in low and high freqs. If you want no phasing in the lows take a utility and select left or right instead of mono, in this way you get completely get rid off the phase cancelation and you keep the character of the sound intact.
2:39 Although it took me a long long time to realize this, because I am listening in binaural L and R, which is still "Technically" mono, or "Unbalanced Stereo" there is absolutely no change when you put bass mono on. AT ALL!!! And if you had compensated for the volume loss when summing to mono by duplicating the channel, there would not have been a difference coming out of my phone or tv, but I did hear it get super thin on my headphones.
This means you are listening to it on a pro audio system if you heard a change both times, because the real misconception is between Stereo and Unbalanced Stereo... And what a Stereo field is and how to create it using parity signals is where the money is at..
The last song I worked on had this exact issue and now I know how to fix it. Thank you for the fantastic content!
Hey Alice, awesome videos.
I'm a sound system technician, and owner/operator of a premium quality analog sound system at many UK music festivals, so very well understand comb filtering, cancellations etc.
Dave Rat (legendary sound engineer) had a very interesting trick in the live music department. Using two different mics on the kik drum (so non-identical waveforms) but instead of having them as whomph & click, hard-panning each in opposite directions, completely eliminating comb filtering on the kik.
I've tried it, and it's awesome!!
Don't think I can post a link, but it's called "Problems With Mono Sound From Stereo Speakers" (very interesting)
I also do a bit of music production (PC free hardware hobby) and it got me thinking...
If you had two kiks which were different, but similar, AND they work well together when summed (for mono compatibility) then you could hard pan them, and completely eliminate all those bass cancellation zones on the dance floor.
It could be a magic 'bass everywhere' trick for producers that know. ;)
Could maybe be extended to snare too, and maybe bass?
I'm working on a trick to stack up all-pass cards on the crossover's EQ (phase modding) to actually 'fix' normal EDM mono bass/kik cancellations, but it's better (and easier) to do it at source.
I'll see if I can link in the 1st comment.
ua-cam.com/video/VHjdh-Vka-g/v-deo.html
Yoooo! Thank you so much! I really get the phase cancellation now and it's solutions.
Harika bir çalışma olmuş, teşekkürler. Mesele ses gibi "görünmez" fenomenler olunca görselleştirme çok önemli oluyor. Emeğinize sağlık.
Ur the best🔥🔥🔥🙏🏿
Best bass mixing video I've seen, and I've seen a lot, including master classes. She presents several approaches in a concise manner, with pros and cons, important caveats, and methods to both analyze AND alleviate the problems. I knew most of this, but the way she went through it all so fluently and without tangents, made it click much better for me. I feel like I understand my toolkit better.
Thank you!!
You explain this incredibly well! I've been having some questions about bass and mono versus stereo and I got everything answered here. Thank you!
I think this is an a ultimate guide about the thing we all use but rare talk about. I wish I found something like that 5 years ago.
3:00
Usually, I'm using a limiter and I'm dropping the ceiling until the signal is flat (of course adding gain after). Works for bass/sub-bass or something that doesn't need to have a broad dynamic range.
Would also be important to notice that EQ3 crossfades are also rotating phase, it is especially drastic with 48 dB option
It really, really depends. I make drum and bass, a genre often played on a PA setup with woofers set to mono in the first place, so often its best to have your mono imaging in a really good place - making the bottom end of 100hz completely mono lets the sub bass sit better under the kick and midbass.
Good content, explained the problem and demonstrated how to solve it, perfect.
Going to use this video with my padawans, because people sometimes struggle to understand my tech-nerd train of thought when it comes to basic principles of audio engineering, thanks a lot 😅
I really like your recent style of videos. Good analogies, educational, and positive energy 👍
Thank you! I really enjoy making them as well ❤
But how would you traslate this into a real mix scenario with lots of dynamics and other instruments?
What do you think of simply always high passing everything that and using a dedicated sub? I’ve always understood that keeping the natural sub in any synthesized bass sound was a bad idea for two reasons.
1. Any processing would effect not only the mids and highs but the sub itself which you don’t want
2. Uneven amplitude in the sub (which you demonstrated here)
Only good reason I could think of is high passing certain sounds even as little as necessary can still noticeably change the timbre in ways you dislike. Some bass sounds sound better because even using gentle filters it’s hard to *only* remove the sub without ruining the sound.
But this capability of Serum for example to only remove the fundamental seems like a game changer. Of course this could be accomplished in any synth that allows you to manually draw in your waveforms.
So now I *really* don’t see a reason to not use a dedicated, separate sub.
I appreciate the effort here. I also do animations on my (much smaller) channel and I know the enormous amount of time it takes to make everything look this clean and concise! Great explanation also, a very clear way to walk through a confusing topic. ✌
Your efforts are also greatly appreciated on your equally awesome channel bruv
@@random_meteor Cheers mate! Hopefully lots more great things to come this year! :)
Excellent video!!. What about using mid side, can this be another technique to solve this issue?
You can use an EQ for center and another for the sides.
This is a subject I feel like I have a pretty good grasp on and still managed to learn something new (remove fundamental from the wavetable 🤯 GENIUS) Also didn't realize Ozone imager kept the phase intact!
I love your videos, please don't ever stop!
Very nice explanation of the topic! I'm impressed with the visual effort you put into this. Great work!
One of your best videos to date! Really great work Alice!!! 🔥
Aww thank you Will! ♥️
Super appreciate the effort you got to visualize things it's fun and helps me understand things. Tips from you are always solid. But your presenting is good to !
4:38 - I don't understand, why the compressor didn't fix the low end...
Had the high end more dynamics, so it triggered the comp. first?
tnx for the video
Hi Alice, here is what I have found over time with the EQ three, it alters the sound just by being there. I am not sure if this is a universal problem but anytime I go back to an old file where I used EQ three by just turning EQ threes off (and I mean those with all L, M, H, on), the entire sound changes.
EQ8 on the other hand is always a safe option as it seems to really keep the original sound wave.
Has anyone experienced this?
That reese bass example was interesting. Not only did the signal become weaker in mono, the bass disappeared!
0:56 There is no such thing as flipping the phase. You flip polarity. Phase is relevant to time and delay.
If you rotate anything by 180 degrees then it's flipped, right? So a 180 degrees phase shift...
@@stevecarter8810 Again, phase is dependant to time, delay. You align phase by moving the delayed signal back or forward to align it with whatever you're trying to align it to. Think of drums recording. Mic distances and phase issues this might cause. The ultimate question you align to overheads or to snare. All these have to do with phase shift (like you mentioned), delay, but not flipping. You flip polarity, not phase. Phase rotation you say, yes, a portion of your signal, a frequency, but when you flip an audio file bringing what was in +1 to -1 and vice versa, then we're talking about polarity inversion (flip) no phase flip.
It is interesting that when we are just embedded in software production, we tend to worry too much about fixing things. On the contrary, when we are working with a synthesizer, we tend to take advantage of these natural deviations in the signal, which give dynamics to the music. I understand that some styles expect a certain idomatic behavior in the signal, like ultra bass crushing in a narrow window, but this is just a chain of decisions that no one dares to break. I like it when the producer tries to be experimental. It would be better if everyone was open to that. However, your video is very informative and very helpful in understanding signal behavior and maybe instead of just presenting solutions, I'd like to see advantages as well, just to not give the idea that deviations in signal amplitude due to phase cancellation is inherently a bad thing.❤
Amazing!! so what happens to the kick?? Is the same thing, do you recomend apply the same process??
The standard practise is to sum
Just hit it with a compressor at about 30% with a soft knee and treat the track in post-production with maybe an ultramaximizer plus Plug-In or something and run that at about 70%? There's lots of easy ways to overcome this, especially if you're too stupid to understand all of this stuff like I am
This lady explains things better than anyone on here .
Glad I found this! So helpful. Clean up the low end and the highs start to open up on their own
Been on this for a while. It’s why you pan the bass side only(not to be mistaken with stereo). Plus it kinda clears out the center where you can place the kick so they don’t step on each others toes.
I think this is one of your best videos. Clear, with diverse ways of communicating the information. Thank you!
Ok yeah this video just blow my mindhole! Might have to re-watch this a few times to apply it to my projects. Cleaner sounding mixes here we come!
Alice thank you. I love how you explain concepts with visuals. Makes you one of the best channels for music production.
I think ive seen a short of urs already with the last methood which is amazing
Something interesting I tried was this: after splitting a stereo waveform into its constituent parts (bass, vocals, drums, other) using splitter software, I noticed my bass stem was fluctuating a lot (typical when splitting music like this). I loaded my bass stem into Alchemy using the additive synthesis function. The result, as it was resynthesised using pure sine waves, ended up a LOT cleaner and consistent than before! It doesn’t work as well with more complex sounds, but give it a try!
You are a true gem Alice! Fantastic visual and practical explanations.
Not sure what you're implying here because it's ultimately irrelevant unless you're going for that less low eq sound, ultimately you still have to use that bass you've dynamically processed and it will make the master dynamics pump on every note regardless of what you do it during production, if you think you're making mix or master dynamics work less it is only because you've sacrificed the low end energy, if you want to do that cut everything and minimise usage of bass frequency but that's a standard that everyone should know. So while what you said is technically true I think it's worth pointing out to those who know no better that incorporating it would be complete waste of time unless like I said you're only going for that sound.
Thanks!
thanks a ton for the tip❤️
You have a great channel. Thanks for shedding light on audio stuff that is specifically geared towards electronic/dance music.
Great video Alice. I have been trying to tell my students this for a long time and now I will just direct them to your video.
that tip for only compressing the low end is so good but so simple i have no idea why i havent thought about it before
This is amazing Alice, many thanks, great tip and solutions ;)
The way you explain this was so intuitive! Thanks for your teaching style! Keep it up!
this was awesome thanks so much!
Jeez. Again, dropping knowledge bombs everywhere. What I knew was close but with just a little of your guidance, I've finally got that sound I want. ty
Excellent. Well presented and explained.
Awesome video! It's also worth mentioning linear phase EQ, for example Pro-Q can be switched to linear phase mode.
This is the best production content.
You are a joy to watch, so well explained and so in detail. I wish you all the best with what your doing with one of the best channels I have seen. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Your production level is top-notch!
You're brilliant, how you explained it in every possible way in detail of the unseen sounds.
You’re such a knowledgeable engineer. Thanks for sharing your knowledge so legibly.
Question about mono compatibility: At what point do we all band together and stop engineering for compatibility with an archaic technology? Imagine if software engineers still engineered for compatibility with Windows XP? It seems like this consideration impacts a bunch of creative decisions which means it limits our creative boundaries :(
I think of a song like Canvas by Imogen Heap. It’s such a beautiful atmosphere but it’s definitively engineered to be played in stereo, not mono.
Great video! Be careful in Serum with the random phase knob when you do subs. Set it to 0 so the sine will always start in the Same position.
Really like how you explain things ! Very well done and clear for beginners.
Great video, this is one of the most useful explanations I found. Phase it's such a complicate topic but is made it clearer to me
Dual mono does not equal stereo, so if you panned them opposite sides it’s just two mono tracks, stereo has to have a difference in any parameter such as a more resonant shelf band on one track and the other having a less significant resonance.
great video. ill probably make use of the soft alternative more often. Hard solution seems, well, hard.
Great video! Would you use similar techniques on an electric bass? I've got an amp track, a DI track and a distortion track, the distortion track is high-passed but the other two are pretty much full range. It sounds good to me but should I be worried about phasing issues and do something akin to these tips?
How come that Ozone Imager doesn't change the phase relation when splitting a band? Isn't it just like applying a Brickwall filter?