I installed an LS12000 in my media room last week, and I think your comments are right on.. This was a big upgrade for me coming from a 10 year old Epson 5020UB. I expected an amazing jump in picture quality, not just sharpness due to the 1080p -> 4K change, but brightness, contrast, and black levels also due to the laser light source, plus support for things like HDR. After getting it all set up it is of course an improvement, but not the "knock your socks off" improvement I was hoping for.. The black-screen sync while switching to HDR is longer than I would like, and I like you don't anticipate futzing with settings between content, so am hopeful I can find a set-it-and-forget-it setting that works for most. Overall, I am very happy with the result, just not blown away.
The "faux-K" argument is getting pretty old at this point and it's definitely entirely in your head. You could make an argument with previous models that only shifted twice per frame but given the LS12000 is doing it 4 times per frame, you're still getting the full 8 million pixels. It's every bit as 4k as any of the full resolution DLP models out there and nobody seems to be complaining about resolution there. These temporal techniques are fantastic ways to reduce costs and boost brightness (aperture ratios are much higher on a 1080p panel) over competing technologies. I for one would rather take a brighter pixel shifting PJ over a dimmer full 4k model for most consumers. I do enjoy the content though. Any way you look at it, this new crop of Epsons is excellent news for us consumers.
Yeah, they are incredible value. I said the same that faux 4k is still solid. I just struggle with the idea of it, but I’m more in the JVC camp so I am in for native 4k already. But it’s a lot more 💵!
@@Techthusiasm I was actually pretty satisfied with it even thr lower contrast coming from the nx7. The lack of actual 4 resolution , I couldn't deal with. The sony xw5000es will soon be mine. ( insert evil laugh) lol
@@TRmusicProductions hopefully xw5000 runs a lot at your basement cause sony recently added a warning that says it can't keep the Performance if it's not in use often or with longer period of standby/off. That's panel degredation which progresses faster when projector used just for a few Movies a month for example... starting off with HW Serie on to VW Series without a notice and now added...
Great real-world overview. I’m glad you didn’t find any killer upgraditis points that would make me second guess my new NX-5. Just an aside… In my mathematics-based education and career, I’ve never heard “delta” refer to what you’re basically equating to as “negative”. Delta to me has always referred to the difference between two items, and can be both positive or negative. Is this software engineering terminology?
Thanks! Yeah, be happy with the NX5 for sure. No reason to consider the Epson. Ha, yeah delta is work term for the negative. Positive/negative and plus/delta. I guess it just sounds nicer to say delta. 😄
As to your comment about the not true native 4K, they effectively achieve it with their latest pixel shift tech and it’s not perceivable by the human eye. It also allows the projector to be much brighter.
I kind of disagree that you can't tell the Sony is a bit sharper for sure, but I think Epson really does have overall better colors. Its just if your brain will handle an e shift projector and you know what you are getting.
@@scotttild they updated the Epson since its initial release which seems softer but most people say since the update it’s on par with Sony now and sharper than the native 4k JVC…
I have to have lens memory I can't handle manual. Its between this Epson and the more expensive Sony. I think this Epson is really really close in picture. I have seen them side by side but your right about the eshift. I really wish Epson would get a native projector. They do have really good projectors though.
Great review Jaremy. I’m in the market for a new pj. Although it’s going to take a big commitment I’m strongly considering the jvc nz7 or possibly the new Sony vpl xw6000. Any chance u might get your hands on one of these
Same! Not sure of the real world difference in picture quality. I’ll wait for more reviews but the 3 contenders are LS12000, 5000E & NZ7 in mind.. Leaning toward the epson or making the plunge to the JVC
I have opted to continue using my NX7 over the LS12000. My majority use case is movies and high quality TV series which are more and more 4K HDR. I prefer the native 4K and frame-by-frame tone mapping of the NX over what the Epson does better. I was just talking to someone though choosing an LS12000 because they game as a priority. So depends on your use case, but I'd go NP5 for me.
Great overview! looking forward to hear your inputs on how this epson stack up against the JVC N7, especially with the black level, contrast, and picture depth, i have the JVC X7900 and i'm contemplating whether to upgrade to this epson to get the benefits from the laser light and the high brightness for the HDR. content.
I have this coming next week and suits what I need to a budget...great honest review. Looking forward to your next video on this machine. A lot of people tinker with mad vr etc. Would love to know your opinion on that with one of these machines.
I'll talk about processing a bit more coming up and more about why I'm keeping my JVC. Thanks for the compliments! The LS is a great machine for $5k, but it lacks a few things.
@@Techthusiasm yeah agree and totally get it.. as if I'd the money I'd get one of the laser jvc's. I'm a massive gamer, so 120 4k gaming is the big sell for me and I can't see 3d. So this is perfect for my needs. I'm also fitting an anamorphic screen and gonna pair with a denon 6700 .. so will be a nice setup for the price... my room is more of a media / gaming room atm so the extra light will be amazing. My old projector is a Panasonic pt ax 100e so the step up for me will be huge from 720. I have an e6 and g1 oled if I want finite detail but for size .. this is perfect for me. Different horses for courses as they say. Do you think a grey screen would be more appropriate for this projector?
Gray screen is less about the projector and more about ambient light and other effects. Do you have a fully light controlled room? If so, just go white. Do you have light leakage and/or like to use the room with lights on? Then consider other options. For me, I'm full black, light controlled, and watch movies lights off, so pure white was an easy choice.
Depending on your use case, I'd look toward a JVC NP5, but I think I would consider either the LS12000 or the NP5 to be an upgrade. We did have a 5050ub in the shoot out at my place as well.
Stay in budget for sure. At this point, you may want to wait. The LS12000 has been out for a bit too. It might be due for a refresh. Stay tuned for CEDIA announcements in a month.
It is the Best for me. The Optic, The Sharpness, The Contrast, The Black, The Colours, The Look, and the Price. Ok, I agree, plus the Remote, earc and HDMI, flexibility like no other, brightness is after calman calibration "only" at 1900, DELTA the menu, 4k eshift is not a DELTA for me, my eyes really don't see a great difference between th JVC 5 or my 12000B, but I always look in BT709. The only thing I look in 4K is with my 4K UHD Player, so a Disc. The Picture is much more Black, and better after a Calibration, and a Master Contrast Tuning by AVITECT, it is after that a Contrast from 7200:1, same as the Sony 5000, so a plus. So, yes, it needs Work and 350 Bucks more to have that better Picture. For me Fan noise is ok, because my Projector is in another room, i hear nothing. Sync time takes time, yes.. .
for 6 grand, the new Sony 5000 laser is native 4k, decent light output, better color accuracy, better motion processing and it pretty much is a set it and forget it,,,providing you have a 16:9 screen and dont need lens memory.
For the Epson? I thought the Epson was solid, but the JVC is much better with regards to blacks, it is native 4K vs. pixel shifted. Plus the JVC has HDR dynamic tone mapping which is really important if you're not getting that from somewhere else in your video chain.
@@Techthusiasm What do you really need 2.1 for ? Maybe you get 1/10 a second faster response for gaming. For movies and everything else its not needed. I take a native 4k projector like Sony over a pixel shifting one. I did look at both side by side and the Epson did hold up. I leaning towards the Sony though.
@@Techthusiasm I couldn't get a new JVC or Sony I wanted, so I got a temporary refurb'd 5050ub. It isn't bad, but I can tell the motion, resolution and black floor is not as good. Its fine until you get into movies like Johny Wick/Star Wars/Batman etc.., then I want to quickly upgrade. I am deciding between the XW6000ES and a NZ7. Leaning towards the JVC because of the frame by frame dynamic mapping. Get a better deal on Sony, so i've gone that route before.
@@Techthusiasm I saw that the NZ7 only has half the native contrast level of the NX7.. have to spend another $5k & get the NZ8 to still have a native contrast level of 40,000:1.. this might make me shift over to the XW6000ES if it is significantly better. There is a YT video comparing them & they grill the NZ7 vs the 6000.
Pixel shifting is a deception. It fools a lot of people who doesn’t understand that it’s only a 1080 projector. If you slide a 1080 DLP chip over to make you think you have more pixels, what happened to the purpose of that 2nd and 3rd chip? What keeps you from having a screen door effect? And how possibly can it still cover all the pixels that are missing that’s needed for a 4K image? 4K means four times 1080. Voodoo science? Please put the 4K chips in and stop trying to cut corners.
@@Techthusiasm Any good format can never go away. Today in the world of streaming vinyl records have made a comeback. I am hopeful that after the new Avaatar film 3d will become popular again
Kinda pointless existence because Sony VPL-XW5000ES is present on the market. If you are on budget and want laser with 4k get LS11000. 12000 sucks for the buck.
I've had a few folks mention to me that they are finding discounts on JVC projectors. We are starting to see more sales on home theater gear now in general. Anthem, for example, is running 15% off various receivers.
I just started watching your videos. I think this Epson is overpriced and inferior to the LG hu810p laser projector. For the original price of $2,999 and was recently reduced to $2,399 because of Prime day sales, this mops the floor with the Epson. The LG has 2700 lumens and 2 lasers unlike the single laser in the epson. Although it's DLP it has almost the identical picture of the high end Optoma laser projector.
I installed an LS12000 in my media room last week, and I think your comments are right on.. This was a big upgrade for me coming from a 10 year old Epson 5020UB. I expected an amazing jump in picture quality, not just sharpness due to the 1080p -> 4K change, but brightness, contrast, and black levels also due to the laser light source, plus support for things like HDR. After getting it all set up it is of course an improvement, but not the "knock your socks off" improvement I was hoping for.. The black-screen sync while switching to HDR is longer than I would like, and I like you don't anticipate futzing with settings between content, so am hopeful I can find a set-it-and-forget-it setting that works for most. Overall, I am very happy with the result, just not blown away.
The "faux-K" argument is getting pretty old at this point and it's definitely entirely in your head. You could make an argument with previous models that only shifted twice per frame but given the LS12000 is doing it 4 times per frame, you're still getting the full 8 million pixels.
It's every bit as 4k as any of the full resolution DLP models out there and nobody seems to be complaining about resolution there. These temporal techniques are fantastic ways to reduce costs and boost brightness (aperture ratios are much higher on a 1080p panel) over competing technologies. I for one would rather take a brighter pixel shifting PJ over a dimmer full 4k model for most consumers.
I do enjoy the content though. Any way you look at it, this new crop of Epsons is excellent news for us consumers.
Yeah, they are incredible value. I said the same that faux 4k is still solid. I just struggle with the idea of it, but I’m more in the JVC camp so I am in for native 4k already. But it’s a lot more 💵!
I owned an ls12000 for 2 weeks it's 100% noticeable that's its not full 4k
+1 for just going native full 4k and not worrying about any possible difference.
@@Techthusiasm I was actually pretty satisfied with it even thr lower contrast coming from the nx7. The lack of actual 4 resolution , I couldn't deal with.
The sony xw5000es will soon be mine. ( insert evil laugh) lol
@@TRmusicProductions hopefully xw5000 runs a lot at your basement cause sony recently added a warning that says it can't keep the Performance if it's not in use often or with longer period of standby/off. That's panel degredation which progresses faster when projector used just for a few Movies a month for example... starting off with HW Serie on to VW Series without a notice and now added...
Great real-world overview. I’m glad you didn’t find any killer upgraditis points that would make me second guess my new NX-5. Just an aside… In my mathematics-based education and career, I’ve never heard “delta” refer to what you’re basically equating to as “negative”. Delta to me has always referred to the difference between two items, and can be both positive or negative. Is this software engineering terminology?
Thanks! Yeah, be happy with the NX5 for sure. No reason to consider the Epson. Ha, yeah delta is work term for the negative. Positive/negative and plus/delta. I guess it just sounds nicer to say delta. 😄
As to your comment about the not true native 4K, they effectively achieve it with their latest pixel shift tech and it’s not perceivable by the human eye. It also allows the projector to be much brighter.
I kind of disagree that you can't tell the Sony is a bit sharper for sure, but I think Epson really does have overall better colors. Its just if your brain will handle an e shift projector and you know what you are getting.
@@scotttild they updated the Epson since its initial release which seems softer but most people say since the update it’s on par with Sony now and sharper than the native 4k JVC…
Frame Adapt HDR is a must. Thanks JVC!
Having the Epson makes me appreciate my JVC even more. 😉
@@Techthusiasm def love my jvc, have yet seen better black levels on any other comparable projector
@@Rob_James yep. My rs640 has insane native contrast and black levels
I have to have lens memory I can't handle manual. Its between this Epson and the more expensive Sony. I think this Epson is really really close in picture. I have seen them side by side but your right about the eshift. I really wish Epson would get a native projector. They do have really good projectors though.
At the moment this projector has no competition! It is a Killer!
It's a lot for $5k, for sure.
Great review Jaremy. I’m in the market for a new pj. Although it’s going to take a big commitment I’m strongly considering the jvc nz7 or possibly the new Sony vpl xw6000. Any chance u might get your hands on one of these
Not sure about Sony. I plan to own an NZ someday. I’d go JVC.
@@Techthusiasm thanks Jaremy. I luv your content. Keep it up
Same! Not sure of the real world difference in picture quality. I’ll wait for more reviews but the 3 contenders are LS12000, 5000E & NZ7 in mind..
Leaning toward the epson or making the plunge to the JVC
JVC get my easy vote if you have the budget for it.
From what I heard they do not use a 4K chip and that's how they achieve 2700 lumens.
The Epson is shifted 4K, which does help with brightness.
great work, looking forward to the detailed PQ follow up piece. thanks
Thanks!
Very candid review. What do you think adding another USD 2000 and go for JVC DLA-NP5. Should laser be the over riding factor in choosing a HT PJ.
I have opted to continue using my NX7 over the LS12000. My majority use case is movies and high quality TV series which are more and more 4K HDR. I prefer the native 4K and frame-by-frame tone mapping of the NX over what the Epson does better. I was just talking to someone though choosing an LS12000 because they game as a priority. So depends on your use case, but I'd go NP5 for me.
Thnx for the advice Bro. I am using 2K JVC DLA-X55 since 2011. Very happy with it. I am planning to upgrade to 4K. I will go for NP-5.
Epson LS12000 is native 4K. it display all 8 million pixels.
It’s not though. It pixel shifts. That’s not native 4k. All pixels are not shown at the same time.
Its not native. Only Sony and JVC have the native projectors on the market. It's "True" 4k but it pixel shifts to get to that resolution.
Great overview! looking forward to hear your inputs on how this epson stack up against the JVC N7, especially with the black level, contrast, and picture depth, i have the JVC X7900 and i'm contemplating whether to upgrade to this epson to get the benefits from the laser light and the high brightness for the HDR. content.
I just scripted up a projector follow-up video. Should record it maybe this weekend.
I have this coming next week and suits what I need to a budget...great honest review. Looking forward to your next video on this machine. A lot of people tinker with mad vr etc. Would love to know your opinion on that with one of these machines.
I'll talk about processing a bit more coming up and more about why I'm keeping my JVC. Thanks for the compliments! The LS is a great machine for $5k, but it lacks a few things.
@@Techthusiasm yeah agree and totally get it.. as if I'd the money I'd get one of the laser jvc's. I'm a massive gamer, so 120 4k gaming is the big sell for me and I can't see 3d. So this is perfect for my needs. I'm also fitting an anamorphic screen and gonna pair with a denon 6700 .. so will be a nice setup for the price... my room is more of a media / gaming room atm so the extra light will be amazing. My old projector is a Panasonic pt ax 100e so the step up for me will be huge from 720. I have an e6 and g1 oled if I want finite detail but for size .. this is perfect for me. Different horses for courses as they say. Do you think a grey screen would be more appropriate for this projector?
Gray screen is less about the projector and more about ambient light and other effects. Do you have a fully light controlled room? If so, just go white. Do you have light leakage and/or like to use the room with lights on? Then consider other options. For me, I'm full black, light controlled, and watch movies lights off, so pure white was an easy choice.
I currently have Epson 5050ub. Is 12000 worth the upgrade? My thoughts are less noise and no need to replace bulbs.
Depending on your use case, I'd look toward a JVC NP5, but I think I would consider either the LS12000 or the NP5 to be an upgrade. We did have a 5050ub in the shoot out at my place as well.
@@Techthusiasm the np5 is too pricey for my budget.
Stay in budget for sure. At this point, you may want to wait. The LS12000 has been out for a bit too. It might be due for a refresh. Stay tuned for CEDIA announcements in a month.
All that light output and Epson drops 3D. 🤔
Dunno what the big deal about dropping 3D. 3D just a gimmick anyway
It is the Best for me. The Optic, The Sharpness, The Contrast, The Black, The Colours, The Look, and the Price.
Ok, I agree, plus the Remote, earc and HDMI, flexibility like no other, brightness is after calman calibration "only" at 1900, DELTA the menu, 4k eshift is not a DELTA for me, my eyes really don't see a great difference between th JVC 5 or my 12000B, but I always look in BT709. The only thing I look in 4K is with my 4K UHD Player, so a Disc.
The Picture is much more Black, and better after a Calibration, and a Master Contrast Tuning by AVITECT, it is after that a Contrast from 7200:1, same as the Sony 5000, so a plus.
So, yes, it needs Work and 350 Bucks more to have that better Picture. For me Fan noise is ok, because my Projector is in another room, i hear nothing. Sync time takes time, yes.. .
Thanks
Anything else I can cover for you?
for 6 grand, the new Sony 5000 laser is native 4k, decent light output, better color accuracy, better motion processing and it pretty much is a set it and forget it,,,providing you have a 16:9 screen and dont need lens memory.
My issue with the new Sony models is the lack of HDMI 2.1. That's a big miss to me.
@@Techthusiasm other than that
What's your take on blacks colours and sharpness??
For the Epson? I thought the Epson was solid, but the JVC is much better with regards to blacks, it is native 4K vs. pixel shifted. Plus the JVC has HDR dynamic tone mapping which is really important if you're not getting that from somewhere else in your video chain.
@@Techthusiasm What do you really need 2.1 for ? Maybe you get 1/10 a second faster response for gaming. For movies and everything else its not needed. I take a native 4k projector like Sony over a pixel shifting one. I did look at both side by side and the Epson did hold up. I leaning towards the Sony though.
Over 20 milliseconds of input lag is a no no for many gamers@@scotttild :( Which why I'm leaning towards this too.
The projector has not been available here in Germany for months.
Bummer. ☹️
Black levels vs your JVC?
JVC wrecks the Epson.
@@Techthusiasm I couldn't get a new JVC or Sony I wanted, so I got a temporary refurb'd 5050ub. It isn't bad, but I can tell the motion, resolution and black floor is not as good. Its fine until you get into movies like Johny Wick/Star Wars/Batman etc.., then I want to quickly upgrade. I am deciding between the XW6000ES and a NZ7. Leaning towards the JVC because of the frame by frame dynamic mapping. Get a better deal on Sony, so i've gone that route before.
I’m very pleased with my NX and assume my next upgrade will be an NZ. 👍
@@Techthusiasm I saw that the NZ7 only has half the native contrast level of the NX7.. have to spend another $5k & get the NZ8 to still have a native contrast level of 40,000:1.. this might make me shift over to the XW6000ES if it is significantly better. There is a YT video comparing them & they grill the NZ7 vs the 6000.
The NZ8 is the on paper equivalent model of the NX7, yes. JVC really pushed the pricing up with these models.
Pixel shifting is a deception. It fools a lot of people who doesn’t understand that it’s only a 1080 projector. If you slide a 1080 DLP chip over to make you think you have more pixels, what happened to the purpose of that 2nd and 3rd chip? What keeps you from having a screen door effect? And how possibly can it still cover all the pixels that are missing that’s needed for a 4K image? 4K means four times 1080. Voodoo science? Please put the 4K chips in and stop trying to cut corners.
I hope we see more true/full/native 4K projectors coming up here, even at the lower price points.
NO 3D MAAKES IT ABSOLUTELY NO. I AM BUYING THE EPSON PROJECTOR 9400
Not much 3D around the AV world any more. I was never a big fan, although many folks were/are.
@@Techthusiasm Any good format can never go away. Today in the world of streaming vinyl records have made a comeback. I am hopeful that after the new Avaatar film 3d will become popular again
You want true 4k? Spend 30 grand! Jees!
How so? You can get native 4K for a lot less than $30k.
Kinda pointless existence because Sony VPL-XW5000ES is present on the market.
If you are on budget and want laser with 4k get LS11000.
12000 sucks for the buck.
The landscape has changed a bit since I made this video, for sure. A lot things are available discounted now too.
@@Techthusiasm discounted?
What for example?
I like great deals 😁 and I'm looking for an upgrade
I've had a few folks mention to me that they are finding discounts on JVC projectors. We are starting to see more sales on home theater gear now in general. Anthem, for example, is running 15% off various receivers.
I just started watching your videos.
I think this Epson is overpriced and inferior to the LG hu810p laser projector.
For the original price of $2,999 and was recently reduced to $2,399 because of Prime day sales, this mops the floor with the Epson.
The LG has 2700 lumens and 2 lasers unlike the single laser in the epson. Although it's DLP it has almost the identical picture of the high end Optoma laser projector.
Welcome to the channel!
I still want my 3D and true 4K.
I agree on full 4K. I wouldn't buy anything less than native-4K again.
why is that. if i may ask@@Techthusiasm