Is Modern Shimano 105 Better Than 10 Year Old Dura-Ace?
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Road bike gears have come a long way in the last decade, or have they? Ollie compares the mid-range Shimano 105 R7000 groupset with modern hydraulic disc brakes and 11-speed shifting, to the top tier Dura-Ace 7900 from 2008 to see the benefits of 'trickle-down' technology.
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But the new 105 doesn't have "Dura-Ace" written on it, which means no one can see how amazing you are just by looking at your bike.
Go Campagnolo then. They brand all their components.
More like how amazing you were back in the day
jokes aside, I still see 105 as a really impressive/professional level groupset. I always take a minute to check it out if I see it on other people's bikes.
Those who care, run campy where they are all just as amazing as super record, just a little heavier and less flash.
@@mxs4193 Even Tiagras are very impressive today. People are always shocked on how well they performs and how sleek they look if they are not familiar with modern road bikes. I can't wait to see the next gen Tiagra with 11 speed.
Dura Ace getting lighter over 10 year. The trouble is I'm getting heavier at a faster rate😂
These espressos ☕️😂😂😂
Bob About me too.
that is the exact reason why "lighter" components are more expensive: it is called Fat Penalty Tax. (And I have to pay a lot of that!)
@@neuspur lol😄
Aren't we all? 😆😅😥
Don’t mind me, just having a minor existential crisis after hearing 7900 referred to as retro.
I'm a mummy
@Mi gi Such a beautiful groupset, I'm happy knowing somebody's riding them and appreciating them for what it is.
I guess my 7800 is ancient.
Dude, my mountain bike’s XTR set is barely from this millennium. I feel you
I’m on a 105 group set from 1987. I’m a dinosaur. I also have a mountain bike from 92 with deore lx on it. Both work great. Lol
For a bike from 10 years ago, that Argon 18 is a beauty 😍
I had that bike
10 years is still recent lol tech used to move alot faster but the better it gets the slower in grows, might as well have been a bike from 3 years ago
amen.
Love my Argon 18 Krypton
Agreed, what a stunning looking machine 😀
"I'm going to talk a little more about the derailleurs, because that's what I'm into"
Ollie's a dork and that's why we're here
Absoooo-luuuuuutely!
The only thing into my derailleurs here is my pant leg lol
Ollie - Jeremy Clarkson for bikes
DuraAce 7900 shifting was a bit stiff as it was the first generation of Shimano with internal cables from the shifters. On the other hand, DuraAce 7800 was a smooth as silk. Still one of the best groupsets that Shimano ever produced.
I like that old school Argon 18. External cable routing and rim brakes, just so easy to work on and modify.
I just want GCN to tell me which aero, disk equipped carbon fibre frame to buy that would best suit my Di2 Dura Ace group set. Btw I do 2 mile commute about 3-4 times a month, so every second is crucial.
Bus pass fatty
Aeroad cfr
I think Halfords do one.
Good set of Nikes should do it.
Get a monthly bus ticket
I do have such an "old" Dura-Ace on my TT bike. In the end, I found this discussion about groupsets more hype than anything else. Why ? Because whatever the technology upgrades are... the amateurs riders I face keep having the same results (me either). If I look a the bike splits for any given local tri race or for any TT close to where I live, I find the exact same speeds now compared to 5, 10 and 15 years ago. So, maybe shifting is nano-second faster, maybe changing gear is nano-second faster, but the truth is cyclists are not because bikes are not significantly faster now. When I analyse past results (ok, for flat TT races) I only a major improvment in speed when aero carbon fiber bikes got into the market. More recently, neither better groupsets, Di2, powemeters or anything elsehad a real impact on the results among the competitive-recreational cyclists around me. If I go for a ride with a group, I don't see how my "old" groupset has a negative effect on my ability to follow the pace. But, all the time I see cyclists changing their equipment for something newer, telling me it is so much better now... after what I don't see them being a iota faster than before. That said, I guess I would say otherwise if I was riding my bike in a place with a lot of hills, mountains, climbs...
Amen.
Thank the lord! Somebody stating the obvious. Well said. Everyone loves technology and upgrades BUT nothing wrong with my 1998 dura-ace groupset apart from the fact that my 23 tooth is not good for me at my age. It’s all in the legs! 👍
Completely agree! Aero, weight going uphill, and, what I no longer have, young legs! Derailleur improvement that matters is accommodating gear ratios that were unthinkable in the past. Ride 52-42, and 14x21 on my racing Holdsworth in the 70s. Bike weighed 10 kg with pedals. Quite similar to Merckx hour record bike. I agree with Ollie, if you want to be faster, get aero, in particular, an aero helmet, and skin tight clothing. Then train more and lose 2 kg of weight from your middle. You’ll be amazed how much faster you are.
Thats because we get to a point where it gets slot harder to improve, nothing has advanced much in the last 10, computers, phones, cars, bikes etc are all making smaller and smaller improvements each year, at this point its just to make sales by saying its new and improved
I see that. I have seen a noticeable difference between my 12kg steel resto mod and my 20 year old 8kg climbing bike, but that still pales into insignificance when I look at my fitness.
Due to a cock up at my lbs, I’m riding a loan bike from them. They’ve given me a home build with Tiagra on it. My normal bike is a 2016 defy with that era ultegra. Cards on the table
I really can’t tell any difference on shifting or braking etc. Very impressed. Trickle down is very apparent.
I bought a used 2016 gravel bike with Tiagra, and agree that parts of it are just fine. The chain went in short order (I have to wonder if the steel quality is lower in a Tiagra chain), so I put on a 10-speed Ultegra chain. Other than that, though, it was fine until I bent the derailleur.
This is something I have been thinking about. I raced for many years, and used mainly Dura Ace and Ultegra. My last race bike is full Ultegra mechanical, but I got it in 2001. I stopped racing in 2008, but have continued to ride for exercise, and have thought if I ever get around to buying new stuff, modern 105 is probably good enough for my needs. So thanks for the video! 🚴♂️
I run a two year old Ultegra groupset and my wife's bike has the same vintage 105. Both are smooth and high quality. For the cost, 105 is fine for the average rider.
Ollie said 105 is the groupset of the people.
Me in Claris: I'm not people :(
Rizki Hadiaturrasyid Back to the nether worlds with you!
Tourney
Claris is brilliant. What do they call our planet?
Im on Claris as well and loving it, I might upgrade to Tiagra but just to get hydraulic disc brakes.
As a MTBer, I would have to go at least Tiagra if I were to get a road bike, once you go hydraulic discs you will never willingly go back to rim brakes.
A good graph would have helped with this weight shake down.
Y axis = weight
X axis = years
Lines with Dura Ace rim or disc
Lines with Ultegra rim or disc
Lines with 105 rim or disc
All with brake lines
See how the weights have dropped over the years
Good idea! Also, in many cases, groupsets' weights have not actually fallen over the years. Cheeky example, but the Huret Jubilee rear derailer (from the 1970s) is substantially lighter than any modern rear derailer.
@@DrewLevitt And those Nylfor(sp?) nylon headsets from the 70s also weigh less than current comparable dimension headsets.
@@DrewLevitt according to disraeligears.co.uk, Huret Jubilee is 145g. That's how much a mechanical Red 11s RD weighs and only 3g less than a RD-R9100 in direct mount configuration.
Weights have increased with disc brakes
That moment when the Groupset you ride is called “retro” 😳
I just had the same moment of horror. 😬
If this is retro my group set (RSX 1999) is not even existing...
I ride an Ultegra Trek from 2000. Ultegra 6000, 9 Speed. 😂
Mine is retro and crap as well! I wouldn’t even mind 2008 105 on my bike! The thing is, the Tiagra/Sora mix on my old Trek is still working ok and I have no need to upgrade just yet, so I’ll just keep riding it until I wreck it!
Shimano 600 Arabesque on my daily, 6 speed, friction shift and so much prettier than all this modern bollocks.
That model of Dura Ace was cutting edge design at the time, seems fair to put it up against the latest that Shimano has to offer in 105.
Tiagra is bombproof and works impeccably!
Interesting review!
I still use DA 7900 on one of my bikes...still working great after more then 70.000 km in all kind of weather conditions (chainwheels, cassette and chain were frequently changed of course). Lever throw has really significantly improved in the following generations, as you mentioned as well, and the hoods feel a bit clumsy, but i got used to it. DA 7900 was also avaiIable with a compact chainset 34/50 (named FC 7950) and the rear derailleur is capable of working with a 30 teeth rear sprocket (shimano officially stated 28, but in most cases 30 works fine, depends on geometry of the derailleur hanger), so gear ratio is not an big issue.
I still enyoy DA 7900 but it's great to see, how good and versatile 105 has become! Great value for the money, which always is a good thing. Cheers!
The durability of the 7900 series will outlast this new crap , I also confirm that works on 30t cassette flawless
I'm running a DA 7800 and it's so limiting in terms of the cassette I can run with it. Previous owner put a 11-28 on it and I can't really use the largest gear without some rubbing. Thinking about upgrading
@@kevjay-med1225 why don't you give a go on using a wolftooth roadlink ? Easy and cheap solution of you want to use a 32 /34 (or more ) cassette!!!!
@@kevjay-med1225 I'm running the exact same setup with an ultegra 11-28 cassette and my DA7800 seems to have no problems with chain rubs at all. Seems it differs a bit depending on the exact bike geometry?
@@markiemannie definitely possible! Do you run 39/53 up front?
I bought myself a 2012 Wilier Triestina Gran Turismo with Campagnolo 10 speed. Had it serviced. They said my crank was bent. They also told my I could use the New Shimano 105 50/34for 11 speed. It was true. It works. I had recently upgraded my chain and cassette to 10speed 11-25 Campagnolo Record. I am 59 years old and weigh 105 kg so 34 front and 25 backgear is close to my limit in a 1000 meter 8% climb. Bigger cassette would have been a relief, but it is ok to walk the bike now and then. All in all. I am happy with a strange campagnolo/shimanomix from different decades. I enjoy the ride. It is light (7750 gram bike included mountainbike pedals). It works nice :)
You should compare the last 10 speed Dura-ace with the latest Tiagra, with rim brakes. IMO that's a much better comparison.
That would be interesting.
tiagra is really similar with 105 in regards to how things are built. So i guess except the extra weight...not much of a difference. As I noticed, ultegra and dura ace share the same mechanical design and tiagra and 105. Probably the question would be, how would a tiagra/105 look in 20k km vs a dura ace or even ultegra.
Someone says newest tiagra just like 105 but less 1 gear
@@Fauz11ukman and a bit heavier
@@ewu2030 "a bit heavier" ? really... lests compare my 7900, i weight it : 1964g in rim brakes. Tiagra = 3300g ! just a bit lighter... 1,4kg is a huge difference. My bike weight 7,8kg, if i install a 10v Tiagra : 9,1kg (18% heavier!!!!!!!!). Its not a weigth you expected with a carbon bike
I've been using new 105 rim brake version for a year now. I'm absolutley satisfied, wouldn't change a thing about it. Great performance and budget friendly. Now I can finaly consider buying a powermeter 😊
I've been using 105 ever since, starting from my Peugeot Aspin 14 with downtube shifters until today in my Cannondale CAAD 5. It's a great groupset, always working perfectly and offering a lot of bang for the buck...
You're absolutely right. I bought the Scott speedster 10 (2022 model) it's an 11 speed and offcourse with 105 7000 groupset.👍 It's the best one price/quality wise. And I wouldn't go any lower than a 105. Everyone that can't or won't afford more than a tiara talks about the latest tiagra, but just a big no for me. A 105 is what I want minimum at least. I can afford Ultegra but I had to buy all new cycling gear, so everythin again, new Garmin (350euro) a speed and cadence meter for Garmin too. A 125euro bikefitting. And also need a thing for Zwift (for this winter) that will cost me 1000-1500 euros as well. So I'm pretty happy with the 105 7000 it performs really wel. And I wanted to buy a cannondale but the one that I want had all the same stuff on it as on the Scott and was 299euro more expensive which wasn't a problem. The big problem was they only had a size 60 and that was way too big for me I need a size 58. If they had a 58 I would have picked the Cannondale. But I'm happy with the Scott.
I'm a tech junky as well as having a passion for classic bikes. The DA7800 groupset, where gear cables come out of the side is possibly the nicest shifting groupset until the DA9000, the DA7900 was a step backwards, but asthetically nicer as gear cables route under bar tape. DA wears really well, very few Ultegra or 105 groupsets still shift nicely after 10 years of riding, while DA lasts well, higher initial price but lower long term cost. The 2008 Argon 18 with DA is probably worth £750 today, while the Orbea with 105 I am sure would cost over £2000, given the choice I would take the Argon as it is a beatiful classic, but in all honesty, in a race, I think that the Orbea would be a little quicker, and certainly more comfortable, but the differences would be pretty small
The Argon would likely be quicker due to having rim brakes.
i ride old school dura ace 9 speed works extremely well. great job.
9-Speed DA 7700 had the best shift feel of any generation other than 9100.
@@prestachuck2867 I agree it's still on my sibling's bike. Lever shape seems really small now but the action is superior with how direct the cables are. I find this video's comparison pretty bad if it was me I'd compare 7800 to current 105 as 7800 was last gen with exposed cable and 7900 was the most underperforming of all the generations. Also agree 9100 action is excellent.
@@prestachuck2867 Sorry but I'd disagree with that and I loved my 7700 group, arguably the best aesthetic Shimano group, just shading 7410 8 speed (chainset maybe just in favour of the 7410 mind). Shifting by comparison 7700 to 9000 or even 7800 is night and day. I got the 9001 shifters but set up properly they are fantastic, the 7900s were a little less smooth but still better than the 7700s IMO.
Me too - but it's hard to get replacements now. I have an ultegra 11 speed because I got fed up of the difficulty in sourcing new parts, and I think it's not so great. The compact chain rings wear very fast, the brakes are not improved and of course it's not pretty. The gear range is good, but the shifting on 9/10 speed shimano was always great.
@@teddansonLA
i went the 9 speed microshift way. best choice as it works great. bike was professionally tuned very happy
Since they didn't add up the two lists, here are the totals:
Dura Ace 7900: 2030g
105 R7000: 2489,4g
I'd go dura ace because I save 459g and disc brakes aren't worth the extra weight. I'd rather climb hills than brake better going down them. Besides, I've never had any problems at all with rim brakes. It's just a bit of work making sure the wheels are always true.
Oh, and 7900 has bigger cassettes. 30T works apparently.
And why didn't Ollie time himself going up the hill? I reckon he was faster with the older group set
And after having bought DA, your wallet is much much lighter as well. A proper two’fer If you were ever looking for one!
459g is barely a pound. You can lose that much body weight and more by pooping. I'll never understand why people get so obsessed with everything being as lightweight as possible. That only matters for the highest level professionals, but hobbyists.
@@JCW86 because weight on your body and weight on your bike is different.
@@oftankoftan you're still carrying the weight around, whether it's your body or the bike. i'd rather lose 10 lbs than spend thousands to lose that weight on my bike.
@@JCW86 Imagine you lose 20 lbs. Now imagine putting those 20 lbs back onto your bike. You'd be much slower than before. That's just the physics of it. you'd have to use your weight to accelerate the added weight on the bike, and vice versa.
And we haven't even got into sprung vs. unsprung weight.
I’m now 35 years old. Old school just keeps me thinking about younger days. I’m at the point in life if it works don’t change it.
I have an old Raleigh with 6 speed Dura Ace friction shifting, a custom bike with Dura Ace 8 speed down tube shifters from around 1994, an old 2000 Trek 5500 with 9 speed Dura Ace STI, and a bike with the 2020 version of Dura Ace mechanical set. All of them shift great... I also have a have a 2020 Trek Emonda ALR-5 Disc with The latest 105 groupset. Honestly, they all work fantastically. Sometimes I will ride ride 2 or 3 of them back to back, maybe 10 miles each, just to see if I prefer one over the other. I can never really make a decision on which one I prefer. I love them all...My first race was on the Raleigh. The last race was on the Trek 5500. A long time ago. If I was still racing, I would go with Emonda ALR-5 with the new 105. It works...
I also still have a couple of bikes with down tube friction shifters ( got asked what they were for a couple of times) love the simple and once you get the feel they work great , also.ride all my bikes ,not back to back though, I have them fitted with different length cranks for really confusing my leg muscles, 165 through to 175 , 172:5 is my competition choice
Having worked on bikes for nearly 20 years I must say Ultegra is my favourite. The right balance of weight, performance and price. Not taking anything away from lower groupsets either though. Claris, Tiagra and 105 are exceptional.
DuraAce however, I'm not sold on it. Performance wise I don't feel it's any better than Ultegra, certainly not enough to justify the price difference.
What is your opinion on the Sram etap axs?
What about Sora?
I still have an older rim brake Cannondale Synapse with 10 speed sram apex and that thing is a gem tbh. Was the bike that got my entire family into cycling.
Agreed!
I reckon that my 2002 Shimano 600 groupset is considered a boat anchor these days. No worries, I still love it.
I've got a bike equipped with complete DA-9000 and another equipped with 105 R-7000 Disc. The difference is, to be honest, still night and day. Both are enjoyable rides, and new 105 is a million miles ahead of my previous 105 bike, a 5600 groupset, but in a blind test you can still easily tell the difference. They're both positive shifters, but the 105 is very utilitarian in feeling compared to the DA.
And DA-9000 on a compact is great for hilly areas. :-)
I put together a 2012 S5 with the R7000 caliper brakes and "short" cage. Pleased as punch with it. Really a great value.
I have a lot of experience with both group sets. The 7900 is on a 1999 Merlin road bike and the R7000 on a gravel bike. The R7000 is a big step up in my opinion but nothing beats Di2
7803 Dura Ace 3x10 The Best Groupset EVER ...Still working like new , smooth and easy .
I replaced by decade old Ultegra last year with the 105 and felt it didn't miss a beat. It's smooth and reliable and the price was right ~$550US.
I've got 105 on mine. Couldn't be happier
Wouldnt it be more intelligent to compare rim version to rim version?
Sadly, Intelligent is the one thing that they are not nowadays.
The 105 rim version has been mentioned as being obviously better than the old Dura Ace.
If they're comparing old tech v new tech then the new groupset can't have old tech rim brakes. Just my thought.
@@dh7314 current 105 exists in rim brake and it would be a much fairer comparison to use it. GCN have just completely sold out to companies trying to push certain products. It's sad
Jonatan Willi Halim thanks! 😂
I still ride a ‘96 Merlin w Dura Ace 7410 8 speed group set every day on Zwift. In almost 25 years I’ve never, ever had a problem. It’s bombproof. When I’m not on the Merlin, I ride a ‘98 Litespeed Vortex 6/4 Ti bike with DA 9 speed and a ‘00 Serotta Ti with DA 10 speed. Never a problem.
@10.04 “I’m already in the easiest gear” ....cuts to a shot on the large chain ring and in the middle of the rear cassette...
This boys a ringer methinks...unless I’ve been using my gears wrong.....Damn!
Great comparison of tech through time...it’ll be interesting to see how old electronic groupsets hold up (against the mechanicals) in 10 yrs+, if they still work.
I noticed that but put it down to someone else editing in some footage later, that didn't match second by second.
I agree and actually own this Dura Ace group on a bike. I just bought two canyons with 105 and Ultegra, Both are wonderful but I stayed with mechanical. I bet the old Dura Ace is still shifting like a Swiss watch another decade from now. I was not willing to make that bet on electronic sets. Cheers!
Yeah I noticed that, could of been an easy edit.
Please talk about the 7800/6600/5500 series, I think these are legendary groupsets for people who can't or don't want to spend a fortune on their bikes.
Funny i just rebuilt my 9 speed chorus lever tonight. Bought in 1997, levers rebuilt 4 times. My shifter was 11 years old when the old duraace was built. Now my levers are 23 years old. Im not gonna claim thst my stuff is just as good as the new stuff, but it just works. Im definitely the limiting factor.
if that argon is considered a retro bike, then that makes my bike prehistoric. 😂😭😭
Haha!! I had the same thought when he called the Argon "retro". My main roadie is still the Dura-Ace equipped bike I bought in 1986.
I'm still waiting for the trickle down technology for the claris groupset 😅
There isn’t much difference for a normal person
Or when your cranks are simply stamped 'custom.' That's when you really know you have something special :)
@@HkFinn83 I certainly can tell the change from 9 speed Ultegra 6500 components to Sora R3000 9 speed drive line. I am a weekend warrior and visually like the hidden wires, shifts that are perceived to be quicker, smoother and positive, most of all lots of different brifter adjustments and positions that were not available with the older units.
JR Namida yeh sounds like a profound difference
Claris went through a generation upgrade not too long ago. I upgraded to the newer claris brifters so that all my cables could run under the bar tape, instead of having the shift cables flapping around out front.
My Dua-Ace from 2000 still works flawlessly!
Interesting comparison...I have a pair of my own with a similar dispersion. 40 years ago I bought two Team Miyata Pro frames from the runup to the 1980 Olympics. At the time, I outfitted one with a Suntour Superbe group (the blue one) and the other with Campy Record (the red one). The blue one had a slightly better geometry (shorter wheelbase, stiffer fork, there were 3 or 4 designs to choose from at the time, but both of them are 55 cm butted frames) so the blue one got an upgrade to Shimano Ultegra 6500 about 20 years ago...that is still to this day my main ride...handmade Wheelsmith wheels as well (from their original shop in Palo Alto where I live).
The red bike continued with the Campy Record and slowly morphed to a 'wet commuter' (I added mount points during a new, still red paint job); eventually the Campy stuff got too beat up and worn out to deal with and I sprung for a Shimano 105 5700 group in (I think, 2011)...oddly, other than the 10-speed vs. 9-speed these two groups look, perform, and weigh exactly the same, and the red bike has become my hill-climber and mud bike (now that I'm retired), but is in no way inferior...
Bet those Campy hubs still spin forever though.
I put 105 on a retro ish build on a Reynolds 531 frame instead of a period correct groupset and it rides beautifully.
I have sora from 6 years ago. Works just fine. I've never ridden anything with dura ace do I don't know what I'm missing out on. It's out of my budget anyhow.
I actually own this Dura Ace group set on a Pinarello and it still shifts like a Rolex. We have a brand new 105 and a Ulegra on a pair of Canyons and I still kind of like the shift action of the old Dura Ace BUT the hydraulic brakes are night and day. No contest especially running carbon rim brakes.
IMHO, the hoods on the new sets are much better. Much more comfortable. I ripped those pancake cassettes off the Canyons so cage length is of no deficit to me. The Dura Ace has been amazing reliable with little maintenance and I now ride 125 to 150 miles a week.
All in all they are all wonderful. The new ones are a much better vales indeed but I bet the Dura Ace will still be working like a Swiss watch 10 years from now. Great video thank you, it was nostalgic!
Scott Jaehne I still have an Lutetia/Dura-Ace mix from 1995 and it shifts and behaves like it did on day one.
Here I am still rocking Dura-Ace 7400 series with downtube shifters
Me too, got asked what they were for ? A couple of times lol
Me too. Still working perfectly with 70,000 km on the bike. Some people actually see the DT shifters and wonder what they are. A person recently referred to them as "suicide shifters". My shifts are without exception crisp and quiet, while some of my companions' much newer drivetrains emit interesting noises as they shift or ride. I do admit, though, that I envy the performance of the newer brake calipers on my wife's bike.
@@robevans5222 I had the same comment once, but I don't have a problem with them. I also had pedal cages on the bike & they were much worse. When out on my DT bike, someone asked me why I kept adjusting my frame!
That must look pretty sweet. Steel frame too?
If it no broke,no fix. My classic bike ( Azuki Imperial upgraded from Dia Compe to Suntour Superbe Pro components ) would survive a nuclear war.
I am amazed by the patience of the car drivers in these videos. I ride in California (south) and almost always use bike lane, but still once in a while there are cars which try to push me out of road. It happened almost once every 2 weeks, once, even one van driver tried to totally run me and then my friend who was 100 feet ahead of me and both were using bike lane.
Can we do a comparison of today's Sora / Claris against Dura-Ace from 20 years ago?
Yes please!
Not 20 years, but IMO 7800 is still the best out there.
My Trek Madone 6.5 SSL has Dura Ace 7800 which is about 15 years old & has done about 25,000 miles. It still operates like new & I love it & the bike. Only gripe is maximum tyre size 25mm & biggest rear cassette cog 27 teeth.
Speaking of uphill test, my prev 6.9kg bike had 52-36 with 11-28 on rim brakes, and new bike is 9kg 105 with 50-34 11-34 on discs. And in both cases the gears choice was perfect, never struggled with 11-28, and now I can't live without 11-34. It's a shame that ±9kg road bikes are a new norm, even if you pay 4k EUR.
Interesting observation! Indeed I have just bought a second-hand Cervelo R5 with DA 7900 from 10 years ago that is significantly lighter than the brand new Cervelo Caledonia 105 that I was thinking about.
I ride with a dura ace 7400 from 1996 (8 speed) and it still works perfectly. I only had to change rims to fit a modern cassette with a 28 cog
My commuter bike setup. But, I've changed rims a couple times because braking in the rain wore them out. Still using 26T on the back.
Id take the new 105 everyday of the week and twice on Sundays
I've just build New/old bike on 2001 Fausto Coppi frame with New 105 groupset anf love it!!
I watched this video with my nice headphones and the music was bumpin' as well! Great choices
I have 105 on my synapse alloy and it's great I'm very happy with it.
Wish it had 7800 instead of 7900 to compare, the 7900 was the first "back entry" mechanical and was widely criticized at the time as losing some shifting feel/performance due to the tighter housing bends and general "redesign" of the system (different shift ratio as well I believe). Having said that, the 7900 is a better "apples-apples" comparison due to the fact that the routing can "match", but the 7800 was an incredible shifting experience (and in my book, still is), it shifts at the speed of thought it seems at times, and is very light on the levers (some of the heaviness you mention was likely due to the redesign for 7900). Anyhow, love the reviews and comparisons, just think it'd be interesting to see how 7800 would compare to 105, or even new Ultegra/DA mechanicals, due to the gentler cable bends. (And of course, the cleaner routing, better for aero, etc, lots of benefits to the bar-routed cabling besides just feel, so understandable why it changed).
Still use 105 5700 on my Madone 2.1…. Never needed anything better , still maintaining fitness…
I use to have an argon 18, I love every second when I was out training with it. To bad a had of sell it due to financial problems 😞
that hurts. I am sorry to hear that. It feels even worse than a stolen bike. Trust in yourself - and never give up on you. I went through those bad days myself. Not fun at all.
Still riding my 7800, alongside a newer ultegra 8000 steed… and it acquits itself extremely well. It’s even 300g lighter.
This makes me Feel old. When I read the title my mind jumped back to my memories of Dura Ace 7800, the last grouoset with the cables out in the wind. It's hard to accept that my beloved 7800 stuff actually came out like 15 years ago 😂.
7700 was incredibly good as well. Probably the best shifting of all their mechanical groupsets, inmho. There is a lot more to shift performance and feel than a short lever throw.
Shimano holds up nice. I daily ride (on dry days I commute to work and ride around for fun) my early 90s Cannondale (I was born in the late 90s) with a Shimano 600 tricolor. It shifts beautifully.
The biggest problem by far is that you tested an 11-28 against an 11-32 on a ridiculously steep climb.
You were struggling to turn the crank in 34-32, so obviously 39-28 is going to fail, and not because of any problems inherent to the groupset. Shimano doesn't make bigger rear cogs for dura ace because pros don't need them: they can maintain cadence up every climb in the world tour. Modern Dura Ace still has a bigger smallest gear than 105 and would still lose in this test.
Yep, there’s no big difference in drivetrain efficiency or gear range all else being equal, and you could still win pro races with DA7900 today. 10 speed was gone, as was 9 speed.
It baffles me that, still today, road bikes are sold by default with such small cassettes. I got a SRAM 11-36 cassette on my otherwise Shimano drivetrain because Shimano doesn’t even offer a 36 cassette. Whatever tiny advantage you have with narrow speed gaps is more than lost as soon as you start a steep climb and pedal at a crazy low cadence. Range matters. Shimano, please act !
@@luc4662 I see your point, but it's also subjective to each cyclist fitness levels and needs.
@@vetracer217 Well sure, but I think the default gearing is quite far from what would best suit the typical customer, at leat if you live in a mountainous area.
I understand that if you live somewhere totally flat, 11-28 makes sense.
I understand that if you're a pro who can climb 1500 vertical meters per hour, 11-28 makes sense.
But I'm in neither of those categories, and I suspect most people aren't either !
@@luc4662 an 11-36 creates a significant loss due to the jumps in the ratios, sometimes enough that you lose our rythm and on an ever changing gradient ou're chopping and changing gears and our rpm is all over the place.
It's not insignificant. I do agree regards 11T starting sprockets, pointless except for 1st cat ad pros.
I'd rather have a 53/33 with a 13-30 but then SHima o are crap at making cassette ratios for the masses.
The 105 r7000 11-speed mechanical that i have on my bike is absolute perfection. It shifts buttery smooth.
Exactly what I wanted to know! I love GCN!
Above a certain level of bike efficiency, and R7000 105 is well above that bar, it is the rider, not the steed. The price of cycling prowess is paid in other currency, and measured in thousands of hours, not grams. (Not a great marketing message for component makers, but there it is.)
Dura Ace all day long.. 😎.. Different feeling when you watch your bike.. And when you start pedaling, its all about your engine, nothing else..Dura Ace had also 11-28 cassette, to not dramatise so much the up hill in the video
I have a DA 7700 front brake on my Cervelo P3C, probably one of the best brakes ever made. Light weight & incredible stopping power.
Excellent job Ollie. Your passion for bike tech is shared by many of us and your insight much appreciated. Cheers!
Due to building my bikes from scratch, i always mix and match the components as i see need.
On my current road-bike, there are Ultegra Di2 8000 (because, well, i wanted Di2) hydro Levers and mechs, but the casette is 105 (because it gets worn out and i can not tell a difference in shifting quality between 105 and dura-ace in the first place), as well are the brake calipars (same workings as ultegra/dura-ace). so you can save quite a bit of money when not counting the last few gramm, but get exactly the same feeling. oh, but i wasnt sensible with the cranks, those are dura-ace 9000, because that silver finish is just awesome ;)
I love my triple Durace on my US Postal Trek Madone from the year Lance one on it. Triple you ask ?
7803 right? I love the pearly finish on those. I have a 2011 Cervelo S5 with 7800.
I never understood why triple wasn't more common. It's so darn useful going up steep things.
I had a 1981 racer with Dura-Ace on it, and the quality was a mile beyond anything else. Even in 2010 it looked amazing (accepting frame shifters of course) and was so solid
For me I'd go for the older model. Proven by time and they have had tons of time to iron out issues that would only appear with years of use. My weight and fitness level are the bottleneck to my performance at the moment, gaining minutes in better fitness with a reliable system would be more beneficial than risking reliability for a few extra seconds that I can't maximize now anyways.
I just upgraded to 105 R7000. I was running R5600. What a difference. I can’t honestly see the point in going for anything more expensive. R7000 is very, very good.
Make something about lower tier groupsets like claris, sora and tiagra. ;)
9 people out of 10 won't be able to feel a difference between tiagra 10 speed and 105 speed
@@claysmith894 There are minimal jumps from Claris to Sora to Tiagra, then there's a massive jump to 105 and again miniscule jumps from 105 to Ultegra to Dura Ace. The force required to shift gears and the amount of lever throw decrease rapidly and noticeably between Tiagra and 105.
I love your Channel I recently bought a prince ultegra 2022 disk, waiting for carbon fiber wheels and the carbon fiber headset handlbar combo, this bike is awesome
531 frame from the 1950’s, 1980’s suntour and stronglight drivetrain, and most importantly a huge satisfying dump before every ride...and I’m still quicker than most
Good to see someone slinging some 531 about.
i allways woundered why people unerestimated the weightlos ability of a good dump in the morning. I easily loose around 1kg every morning that way. Sadly my gut only gets activated right after the 25km commute. The good thing about that, i save money on toiletpaper and flushing water. My way of practicly increasing my wage, by using company toiletequipment.
2 things:
1) Older parts just look so much better than newer ones.
2) Riser road bars are the opitome of the above.
For profesionals Dura Ace
For amateurs 105 it´s a great groupset, and always have Ultegra if you can spend a little more money.
I have Ultegra 8000 and very happy vith it.
Not much difference in performance between 105 and ultegra. Just weight, and even then it’s not huge.
Still have my 7950 di2 groupset from 2009 on carbon sport LW clinchers on my red Time RXR old bike. Has the K-edge rear der. with long cage that I can run up to a 36 SRAM 10 spd cassette . Ages like a fine wine!
6 adverts in a 20min video - 5 of which you can't skip! You're losing me GCN. You're losing me....
Download an ad-blocker and UA-cam might become enjoyable for you again.
You missed the fact that the entire video was a Shimano advertisement haha.
@@threeinoneoil No, I didn't; I offered a solution to a problem.
@@pinkie7803 is there youtube adblocker for android?
@@JohnDir-xw3hf Use a web browser rather than the app, and install AdBlock
When I converted from 9 speed to 10 I went from 105 to Dura-Ace 7800 on a Ti frame. I still think for those of us that don't race for a living, the 105 is my favorite bang-for-the-buck. I have to admit that I do love the Dura Ace 7800. Unfortunately after 20 years and 35,000 miles my Ti frame has just cracked, ant the manufacture did last as long as the frame. So I'm here debating if I make the jump to a 11 speed 105 or try to get my Dura Ace 7800 on a new frame. Based on my riding style, I'm still not sold on modern 105, though I do have hydraulic brakes on my trail bike and there is no comparison in the stopping power..
Cracked frame? Sadness!
Let's talk about how slick that Orbea looks!
My 2014 Orbea was written off in a crash last month so I have already been spec'ing up a replacement in orange. Seeing that has more or less decided it for me.
My Son just got the first one in Australia and it's 105 (his first road bike)
Until a while ago I was still using a 7800 Dura-Ace. Amazing groupset. As I´m not cycling or competing anymore I´ve stayed with Tiagra. Good enough for me now.
GCN: Has technology improved over the last 10 years and is more affordable?
Me: I would sure hope so.
A tiny bit, tech has been moving significantly slower, the last 10 years is probably about the same advancements as the previous 4 or 5 years, its just incrimental changes at this poibt
If you think changes have been made in the last decade, I just finished cleaning, lubing and polishing a full Dura-Ace fitted bike from 1985. Down tube shifters, rim brakes, 600 SIS derailleur and even the seatpost. The shifter clicks in perfectly, the brakes could throw you over the bars. They are just outstanding components. A few scratches, but everything still works the way it should. The frame is a Vitus, the wheels are 700x20c Mavic and a Selle Italia Turbo seat. It's a beauty.
is that the aluminum Vitus?
@@ronbell7920 Yes. Back in the 80's I had two Vitus aluminum and one Look Carbon Fiber bikes. The carbon fiber ended up cracking and I sold the other Vitus to a friend. The one I have now is still in excellent condition.
Ok, you get bonus point for the “bikes are like buttered toasts” joke!
I once had a Vitus 979. It had the stiffness of buttered toast.
Didn't stop it from being a fun bike nor did it stop King Kelly from winning a few races on it.
I have the full Dura Ace 9100 (2019) Groupset
I also have a 5 year old XT groupset.
If XT components worked on roadbikes, I would have 2 XT groupsets and my kid would have DA.. ( though the crank and front derailler are really good)
Why does Dura Ace still not have a derailler clutch ( that alone would probably free up a few watts) ? Why small pulley wheels? How much friction is the short cage creating? Why does it not have the capacity of ultrgra? Why does the bleed screw need to be in the worst place? Why can’t I use the bigger metallic XT pads?
Sounds like a GCN does science episode is needed
- great episode!
A clutch would rob you of watts, it adds drag. Oversized pulley wheels are worth a microscopic gain. About the same as a good bike throw will gain you.
Now do "vintage 105 vs modern dura-ace"!
Dumb. We know which is best.
@@rayraythejet You must be fun at parties.
@@RodrigoPerez79 no no hes got a point
@@ijones9211 I think the point is that Prz was joking and the Ramon didn't pick it up. He may well be a second language speaker, and those little things are tough to pick up from experience.
@@71CMMYou're very sensitive. No language barrier here. Just wasn't funny to me.
I have 2012 Dura-Ace it works really well.
My Merlin Titanium still looks good (very good) with its Dura ace 7400 Dow tube shifters....I think the bike it’s going to outlast me ,,,
Damn that orbea is super clean. The integrated cable is super dope
650 mark? I thought the Germans had switched to Euros...
🤣
yes we have indeed :D
LMAO
I upgraded last year to new 105 from 2008 dura ace and WOW was it a difference. Noticed it most in the front mech. But overall, lighter, more responsive and easier shifting, and better feeling hoods.
I bet your cable housing was dry AF bro on your DA bike.
The real question is how does the 105 hold up after 10 years? Will it still shift as well as a Dura Ace did after 10 years?
105 is bomb proof!!
Absolutely yes...my wet bike got a 105 group 10 years ago, looks like hell and beat up, but still works as good as Ultegra (earlier vintage) Ultegra. I have not noticed any degradation
It will last better
Dura Ace 7800 is still better than 105 R7000
I’m still riding my Dad’s old 2006 Giant TCR2 with 105. Works like a charm although I’d love to get a new bike at some point and retire this one to a permanent garage Zwift bike.
DA still looks better, which lets be honest is pretty important for many riders.
Tens of thousands of Tour de France riders completed the TdF on groupsets worse than my 2017 11spd 105 setup.
I also have a set of Vision Metron 40 wheels. They make a bigger difference than the difference between DA and 105 (and can be bought with the saving).
waw. i really think ollie has the best american voice in all of england
Simon is pretty good as well.
As an American, I agree
Still running 10 speed SRAM Red. The best!
Sram Rival wireless shift is arriving in the not to distant future. I hope they leave it as a 11 speed to use as replacement for the older red 11 speed units.