Belgian Cyclist for 60 years here. Sold all my bikes and went back to my simple steel Bianchi 2 x 8 and durace rim brakes. Never any hassle, and soooo much more exciting to do my daily 80 km spin.
Funny how bicycle tech was perfected some time ago but the industry needs to keep coming up with ways to convince people their "old" bikes need to be replaced to stay competitive. It's nonsense. Wisdom does come with age my friend and you have seen the light.
@@kriss3492 inderdaad. Vandaag een mooue 70 km tocht met mijn 1976 Raleigh 1 x 8 buisshifters. Gewoonweg perfect. Door de heuvels en geen mens te zien, alleen schapen. Ben Vlaming van Brugge maar woon al sinds 1992 in ZW ierland
@@Left_hand_clapping There's no seeing the light and no conspiracy out there. I'm a heavier rider, as I also do bodybuilding besides cycling. Rim brakes are garbage and unsafe for me, specially on carbon rims. Hydraulic discs are just better. Also having up to 36T cogs with nice jumps in 12 speed cassettes helps me a lot in hill climbs. New tech is great and makes it possible for more people to ride bikes.
We perfected road bicycles when we moved the shifters from the downtube to the handlebars (by integrating them into the brake levers). Everything we've done since has solved a problem that really didn't need to be solved.
My thoughts too. The shifters on the down tube would invite your mate to drop you into the smallest cog before taking off to claim maximum KOM points. Not doable any more.
Oh boy…here they come. Let me just ask permission to like my carbon, disk brake, electronic shifting, tubeless and yes hookless bike. Please can I not feel bad for owning this?
I agree 110%. The rest of what came - and still will - in my mind its most for the sheep who must have the latest, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is amazing the old school bike above weighs much less than the "new schooler." Disc brakes alone do weigh more than rim.
SALE OF THE CENTURY! 400g weight advantage is HUGE if performance is the focus. What a legendary video! Comment Karens in 3....2....1.... xD I ran so many tests with power meters and using 2 riders at once and repeating the climb etc etc and my SL7/SL8 Tarmac S-Works just always slower vs rim brake tarmacs with same tires/psi etc.
Had an injury where bumbs are really hurting, so last week I swapped my old set of Bora Ultra 45mm (rim) wheels with 23mm front, 25mm back vs the wto60 (rim) with 28/28. Yes they are more comfy so I don't have much pain, so it's working as intended. But no one can tell me they are faster. I have ridden some routes so often I immediately thought - wow, are my brakes on or what is the issue? Deeper wheels, bigger tires (new contis should roll better than the ones on my old wheels), rest of the bike stayed the same - new setup is slower for me. And now they push for 30mm and more. What a scam.
I bought my retirement present. Litespeed. Mechanical gears. Rim brakes. All ultegra. It will function flawlessly for the rest of my life. Keep it simple.
I did the same but a lynskey. then the Etap was flat every time i went to ride it so i sold it. Still ride my 2009 Madone w/ XXX lite wheels & XXX lite carbon rim brakes. never let me down.
In 2020 I bought a new Campa Chorus groupset for Gina, which is my 2007 Gios A90 racer, with the purpose to use smaller chainrings than in my younger days - and to use it for the last ten or twelve years of my cycling sports, I was already 64 years old then. Despite the opportynity to opt for discs, I chose the rimbrakes. They make a perfect pair with the Zonda wheels, powerful if I need it, sensible when I like it, and I can simply not figure out conditions where discs should be better, their extra mass aside.
@@klausschneider1045Good choice. In a peloton where most of the other riders are using disks, if you don't have them you may rear end other riders. When there was a mixture of rim and disk brakes there were more accidents apparently. In a pace line disk breaks may result in slightly reduced rider to rider distance. Disks could be useful to pros but not to us. I hope you keep cycling for many more years.
Was shopping for a new bike frame this year and came across a brand new Factor 02 RIM brake on sale from the factory. Tremendous bike! Team Rim Brake all day!
I got into cycling, and road bikes, BECAUSE of their simplicity and ease of maintaining them. These modern works of art are crazy complicated, with wiring harnesses and hydraulics! I'm happy to be stuck in 2013 rim brake land!
Yeah, fuq it, we should be on wood rims and fixed gears! Tie-and-soldered spokes, leather saddles, and toe clips! Leather hairnets, wool kits, and cottered cranks! ALL THE OLD THINGS!!
What on Earth is so hard by puting a hose through a frame? It is the same time for rim and disk. I find disk are much easyer to work on and to set up, plus the power you get from a diskbreak set up is superior
@@66mikkim Let me get this straight. You are saying that hydraulic disc brakes are easier to mount and work on than rim brakes? If so, I think we’d all like to hear all about this.
Just been out on my 2014 Supersix EVO, campy chorus 11 speed mechanical, rim brakes, latex tubes.. beautiful ride 😊❤ great vid Cam.. love the refurb job.. Pete
Was perfect weather yesterday and no wind, took out the S-Works Rim brake bike for a spin, damn every straight line, climb and break in traffic I just had the urge to keep flooring it. Haven't had that sensation in other bikes for a while.
@@trannel73 I've got the 1st eTap stuff and SRAM lost a lot by discontinuimg it even tho you can get rim compatible stuff (you can switch to 11spd in the axs app they tell me) it's not really known about.. obviously it's all about the disc
@@borano2031 Disc brakes are only a faff for people not used to them. Installing them the first time might be somewhat complicated, but if your bike came with decent ones you're not replacing in the short term, my disc brake MTB and road bike take 5 minutes of bleeding every couple of months (Shimano bleed cup is easy as can be). Once a year, I properly clean the calipers and pistons. Replacing pads less than once a year takes 10 seconds, maybe another 20 if I need to reset the pistons, not needing any other adjustment. Replacing discs every couple of years requires maybe a minute per wheel. Compared to the faff of replacing rim brake pads on my touring bike after one holiday of intensive use (for some even during the bike trip), adjusting and readjusting the pad to the rim, and replacing the whole frickin rim after the brake track is worn, I'd say rim brakes are overrated. And that's before I compare performance in the wet and during long descents, and modulation.
I bought a 1989 Trek 660 Crit bike about a month or two ago. All original Shimano 600 Ultegra. I overhauled the components myself and added some high performance brake pads. It honestly stops so well and its fast enough to hang with modern bikes.
In the 1970's we toured in the pouring rain loaded down with 30-40lbs. in mountain terrain with center-pull brakes, and it worked fine. I also never saw old steel frame bikes snap when they hit a pothole, landing the rider in the hospital.
I snapped few steel frames one beyond repair, cracked 2 aluminium frames and yet my carbon frame still holds after hitting few potholes in high speed. To put the weight weenies into perspective I'm 193cm tall and 99-100kg. Disc brakes are safer and way better than rim brakes and would allow me to use carbon rims but I don't have the budget to replace my bike...
I've had 4 531 frames crack on me, I think it must be a record. I currently have two steel framed road bikes, built with chromoly, whichI think is indestructable and I love them. Rim brakes work but can be a bit dodgy in certain conditions. My cantis on my steel tourer are shite but they still stop me and are easy to repair/service in the most remote areas of the world. The more complexity built into a machine creates more possibilities for failure. Retro is best.
@@radimvavrecka3481 road bikes are not designed particularly for your weight. also do you ever hear about ceramic rims for v-brake? they perform like disc brakes but they don't need any maintenance for years. thats the problem, you have to spend
@@leart78 I'm happy with disc brakes on my MTBs since 2000, wouldn't chance for V brakes under any conditions. I have Mavic Exalith rims on my road bike and the coating on rear rim is wearing of... It's the best option for road calipers but nowhere close to discs. Most standard bike parts and frames are designed for 110-130kg limit.
@@markschneider3915 “worked fine” is relative. Yeah you could get around on them for sure, but disc brakes add a lot of confidence and just work in the rain. Even Greg Lemond said he would choose disc brakes every damn time if he had that choice when he was racing.
I’ve recently sold my giant tcr disc brake which I was racing on as I didn’t have much time left. Bought a Parlee Z1 rim brake with sram red 22 mechanical. Probably the nicest most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. Could argue it’s as fast if not faster than giant even with narrow alloy rims. I’ve been converted
of course it is faster lol. Why you think Pog used rim brakes every chance he got. Why you think Colnago put out a rim brake model for him to ride next year in the TDF?
I was working as a mechanic when Shimano rolled out the direct-mount design, and I remember thinking at the time "it's a shame Shimano perfected the rim brake at the exact moment when it's about to be obsolete" (we all knew road disc brakes were coming soon).
You know I've always desired a BMC so really looking forward to part 2. I recently sold my cannondale supersix evo with disc brakes and ultegra and purchased a Condor Italia with rim brakes and campagnolo athena, oh boy am I now a happy cyclist. Yes there is a weight gain but I've fallen back in love, no more squeal from the disc brakes and the feel of the ride is superb I've even getting more PBs on Strava.
I was all about MTBs getting disk brakes, I would say it's even necessary. But that's a whole different animal. I recently started road biking again. I didn't want to put a bunch of money into a current bike, so I picked up an older Cannondale r1000 with full Dura-ace. I rebuilt the bike just to freshen it up, and as I ride it, I've thought to myself a few times, "Why did anybody bother putting disc brakes on these things? It stops on a dime as is, and it's lighter." I find it interesting to see videos like this confirming my thoughts.
2016 BMC SLR02 rim brake teammachine + Assioma Duo user here, this hits close to home. Whatever the results I can say it's really fun bike to ride, and it's very budget friendly (upfront and upkeep considered)
I did the same. Ditched Campy EPS disc on my Basso Diamante and went back to my Diamante rim with SR mechanical rim. Life is just simpler when you can ride more and fuss less.
Still riding 2011 Colnago C50 ( the last year they were handmade in Italy) with Campy Super Record mech with rim brakes....probably ride this til I am no more.
Yep. I have Ultegra WH-6700 wheelset. Very narrow rims and aero spokes. Or actually shall type had these - 2 weeks ago they got trashed (got hit by a car). Very light and easy to spin wheels. Earlier this year I found even lighter hub for a front wheel. Searched so the spokes would not have to be replaced. And? Bitex RSPF (front) worked like a dream. Imagine Ultegra was like 160 grams and the scale for Bites showed 92 g.- 2/3 the weight. Just 🤩
it's a very good point to highlight re 2nd hand bikes like this. Sellers very unwilling to understand the actual practical value (frame only basically as they ride them into the ground without maintenance). You got to completely gut the bike and build it back up with new components (often very hard to get too) so the cost of a 2nd hand bike is never the hand over cost, add at least another $500 in components. This has always been my real world experience doing this but I love the feeling of rebuilding a nice clean serviced fresh bike.
Since 2013 I've been checking out bike specs & geometry and here's what I noticed. And also my experience using rim and hydraulic brakes. 1) Geometry - Modern bikes are getting way more aero (lower stack, longer reach) for the same sized bike. Old endurance is now a modern gravel geometry. Same as old race = modern endurance, old aero = modern race. My personal tip is whatever bike feels the best for you, use it's stack and reach when purchasing new one. Buy whatever the size is closest to it's geometry. 2) Materials - Modern bikes and parts are mostly made with carbon which is not friendly for heavy riders. Old bikes and parts are mostly made from alloy and can handle heavy riders. You can still go home or complete the race after a crash without worrying about reliability. 3) Braking - Modern disc are best suited for rainy weather. The wheelset itself can last a long time when taken care properly. The only concern is the tiny clearance of brake pads and brake can lock up easily. Old rim best for dry weather. Brakes have bigger clearance and better modulation. Carbon rim will wear out quickly when dirt gets in there during rain. No matter how much you take care, eventually the brake line will wear out and need to be replaced or buy a new wheelset. 4) Wheels - Modern disc can easily accomodate larger tires. They also have wider inner rim width. Which is heavy rider friendly. Old disc specially the older ones can only accomodate 23/25c. They also have limitations in inner rim width. They only work for 90kg below riders. 5) Weight - Hands down for same model or same price, old rim is always lighter than modern disc. The tech, R&D, cost is still not there for modern bikes. The price increase vs performance benefits are not worth it. 6) Other tech - Integrated cockpit or proprietary parts. If it doesn't work for you, you will have to replace lots of parts and may have hard time finding it. Unlike old stem dropbar combo, the adjustment and customization is unlimited, way cost friendly. Most parts uses the same standard. Inner cabling looks good but external cable maintenance is a breeze. 7) Takeaway - If you are looking for best performance vs price value go for any rim bikes. If you are 90kg below go for (2017-2019) rim bikes that can handle 28c. If you are above 90kg go for modern disc, with tire width being proportional to your weight.
I really have to applaud you for going through the trouble of addressing deterioration and maintenance - there are countless videos comparing new and old bikes where they essentially pull an old bike out of the shed that has seen many miles, weather, dirt, sweat and so on and pit it against something fresh off the sales floor and then of course conclude that older bikes simply can't keep up with the technology of today.
The Extralight is truly one of the greatest frames ever made. I've been searching for a deal on one in my size for a decade now, but this is a frame which retains its value.
@@manysnakes I would agree. The Extralight has proven to be a great value over time, in spite of the high initial cost. Rob Vandermark designed it well, and Tim Delaney's welding has stood the test of time. Both men are still involved at Seven Cycles today, building frames as good as, or better than the old Merlin. A Seven could be a worthy alternate choice, if you can't find a vintage Merlin.
Loved my Merlin Extralight ! Until some muppets stole it ! Also had a Merlin Cielo .. stunning but had a serious speed wobble ! Now riding a Look 785 RS Huez with rim brakes .. a dream ride.
@@Scott-ph2yk thanks for the feedback.. yes Cielo was carbon and ti glued together.. fine until I reached 50kph and then the wobble started ! Love my Look and I have a steel Colnago Tecnos which is also awesome!
Still have my rim brake TCR. Yes, so much happier with it’s simplicity compared to my newer disc brake. Durian speaks a lot of sense about cycling. Love him or hate him.
I'm still riding my Specialized Allez 2019 rim brake bike. Some friends think that riding downhill is safer on a disc brake road bike, but as a descender, I'm not sure I agree. Just like with climbing, it's the rider, not the bike, that makes the difference. When it comes to descending, it's your handling skills and confidence on the bike that will keep you safe. While better bikes or equipment can assist, they won't make much difference if you're a slow climber or a fearful descender.
Used to Own a Specialized SL6 Disc Brake Bike, had it for 4 years plus, The Bike was Fantastic, Stiff, Fast and Climbed and Handled well but couldn't wait to get Rid of it as it was Disc, A pain in the Arse to Bleed, Everything about Disc Brake System is Expensive and then one of the Levers started to leak, Sold it on Ebay and went back to my Scott Solace Rim Brake.
The dura ace 9000 wheels with aluminium brake track were awesome, great stopping power and super light. Agree with you when you fall back in love with good rim brake bikes. I had a sram red 22 mech group at one stage aswell and dam it was crisp and light
I have both and won't be taking sides but my rim brake I can't remember when I last had brake problems and my disc brake routinely cleaning rotors, sanding pads, squealing, also my last pads picked up oil spill from a road and cancelled a ride as I couldn't come to a stop safely 🤷♂️ so complex. If I had a one piece bar I'd probably quit cycling 🤣
@@leslie7922 why so many issues, what are you doing to them. I have 4 disk brake bikes. Never touch them, never have issues, never any touching. Replaced pads on one, the gravel bike. I don’t have any issues with the rim brake bikes I have either. Ride them when I want to go old school retro.
Great that you're doing this Cam! All the comparisons I've seen so far are full of problems; not comparing bikes with similar components, ie apples to apples - it's always skewed to make the disc bike look better. And the weight discussion - there is more to it than just climbing times. A light bike is more responsive and accelerates better, which makes a difference in group rides and races. No UA-camrs talk about it. And then there are always discussions about aerodynamics, but that is a completely separate issue. Give a rim brake the same modern aero features and the difference will be negligible, and may even favour the rim brake bike. Not to mention price, maintenance, etc. Really looking forward to Part 2!
@@timw4369 What are you talking about? Maybe you’d like us all to go back to steel bikes with back-pedal brakes and toe straps? Things move on. People want better bikes. And disc brakes are better. You’ve been duped by the clickbait influencers.
Cheers to Assioma!!! Picked up my pair about 3-4 years ago and still work great, love them. As someone who's currently on a rim brake 10+ year old Swervelo and considering upgrading to a Disc Brake Canyon, I'll be keeping an eye on these test!
Ive got a BMC Timemachine TMR02 with some carbon wheels for RB and a carbon cockpit. And oh boy that bike is rapid. Completely in love. And the rise is soooo silent u cant hear a single thing.
Finally a true comparison on UA-cam. Looking forward to the testing. Getting the same wheels is master glass - this is so often missed by others when doing a comparison. Thanks Cam
I'm afraid to ride my old Colnago cx1 full sram red cause I will probably fall in love again with it and will not want to ride my new expensive disc brakes bike again 😂
Amazing! I just went back to a 2020 SLR01 Teammachine w/ Ultegra Di2 and direct mount brakes. 28mm tyres for dayzzz and such a good ride. A rim brake bike will make you enjoy working on your bike again. Just came in from a ride with heavy rain and I was running aluminum rims in anticipation and honestly the braking power felt so similar to my disc brake bike. Maybe even a little less twitchy and more linear.
Give us more heavier, noisier, and more complicated brakes, said no one ever. Good on you! If cables are inferior, guitarist would all be playing keyboard guitars instead of strumming and noodling away on stages world wide.
I can’t wait to see I was right about everything I have been saying. Yes, the rim bike will win. That’s my prediction. Simply because frame aerodynamics is literally 1% of your total drag. All other things being equal, In a stage race weight will matter more. It will also corner better and handle better and feel better then the disc bike.
I just picked up a new rim brake TCR (last of its kind). I'm still resisting. Have Hed JET Blacks which are awesome for rim braking. -U10 PS - It can take 32s too (with the non series shimano brakes they make and few know about).
I have a San Remo 76, Ultegra rim brakes with ENVE pads, I absolutely love it. Ride it all the time. I'm relatively light and don't ride in the rain so I can't say I've ever had any issues with stopping power. I'm easily able to lock the wheels completely so the weak point in the braking system is the tires not the brakes. Disc brakes would be a marginal improvement in feel maybe but they wouldn't actually improve my ability to stop the bike under normal riding conditions.
Never selling my 2014 Merckx EMX rim brake. A few months into Covid I upgraded to Ultegra 11 speed with Dura Ace shifters and Roval SLX aluminum wheelset (21mm internal) running tubeless 28mm Continentals. Assioma Duo pedals round it out and it’s 16.5 lbs ready to ride. Properly adjusted brake pads are gold Jerry … GOLD.
I descended Mount Grappa (27 km, 1600 m) last fall on (rental bike) rim brakes and I really missed my disc brakes every single switchback. Disc brakes are far better in the mountains.
Proud owner of an R3 Dark Edition since 2014, Dura R9100 and HUNT 36/50 rims. Stopped weighing when it got to 6.6kgs…done many century rides and a double, brakes have served me well going down 30% hills…the trick is the maintenance..clean bike is a fast bike 👍
I just bought a used Trek Madone (late 2000s model, $700, rim brakes) and I’m digging it so far. I’m used to riding on hybrid bikes and MTBs. I’m a fan of DurianRider and he seems very knowledgeable on older vs newer road bikes so I I decided to get an older one as my first one.
I never swapped to disc as I realised it wasn't really a major gain versus all the fettling and noise.. I done a lot of riding on long descents in the Pyrenees and have seen first hand how feathering rim brakes is safer than feathering discs. The smaller discs get much hotter than rims and brake failure is more likely with discs.
I like to keep things simple and believe your engine, weight and ability are priority. Mechanical discs on a 1x Ti gravel bike that I use on mixed terrain (singletrack, grass, woodchips) to train and enjoy at the same time, and the 2011 carbon Ridley road has SRAM Red rim brakes which I run 28mm vittorio rubino tires on. I get tempted to change, but I really like this road setup still, and I'm sticking with it. Never had issues with rim brakes including big, wet descents on multi day "holidays" in the French Pyrenees.
Lucky enough to have both rim and newly acquired a Focus disc road bike. The much older Giant Defy with rim brakes is still the go to due to its more 'relaxed' fit. Wont be selling it anytime soon and will be booking it for a full check over just like your BMC. Just getting back into riding and new sub today. Great channel
Gone back to my 2009 aluminium bike recently. So much less hassle, no proprietary parts & even as an alu frame, lighter than my carbon disc brake bikes. The only problem was the tyre clearance, which I solved by fitting 650bs which allow up to 30mm tyres. Now absolutely no way I‘m going back to anything else
looking onto my balcony at my retired BMC 2016 slr02 rim brake bike that replaced my earlier 2010 BMC roadmaster SLX01 (in storage).......lovely to ride on the rare occasions but in London UK, disc brakes win every time....stopping distance in traffic and reliability (noise not withstanding). Current bike for last two years a Specialzed Aethos disc....which is great everywhere.
Agreed… I upgraded all components on my 2012 CAAD10 and it’s still a mean crit bike. A head turner too being aluminum and rim brake with exposed cables no less 😅
I recently dusted the cobwebs off of my 2010 Specialized Roubaix/Ultegra and took it for a spin for the first time in about four years. Didn't spend a penny on it and it rode just as good as it ever has; zero complaints.
One of the main reasons to go disc brake is so you can put bigger (faster) tires on the bike, so you should be using 32s on the disc brake bike for comparison, or at least compare both 28s and 32s on the disc bike vs the biggest tires you can fit into the rim bike
Many of the last gen rim bikes with direct mount brakes could happily take a 30. I’d imagine if the R&D had continued there’d be 32 options by now. And then advances in brake track tech too.
that old bmc is still pretty sweet. i still rock my 2012 BMC roadracer sl01 10 speed with a few groupset and wheelset updates here n there is still a fantastic bike ride.
Yasss, love this project! I owned a TM SLR01 ‘16 with Ultegra 6800. Damn fast bike. Rode Amstel Gold fondo with it in ‘23. Climbing was perfect. Downhill bit tricky in wet with carbon wheels 😅.
Recently a BB cup seized and main bike was in the shop. Had to dust off the steel bike with 10s 105 group(mechanical and rim brake). My biggest complaint was hood shape, but overall the bike was still really fun to ride after I got the position adjusted.
Cam, it's not an addiction.. I have 9 bikes 3 frames, including Dedaccai Asoluto, a series 1 giant TCR-0 dura-ace 9, Principia t28, Teschner Race Pro, 2 Avanti Corsas, (one Columbus Aeroplane alu car, the other is 2017 Cora SL team), a Look 695 aerolight dura ace di2, a colnago Mexico with suntour superb/superb pro/mavic components, and a 1995 Gios aniversay with a mix of Campagnolo 9.. 20 od sets of wheels, including Zipp 440 tubular with the ti blade spokes and ti/carbon Zipp hubs.. all pre disc.. See not a problem at all 😂
@CamNicholls there's more, but I've put them up for sale at a mates bike shop. (Ideal Cycles) theres 8sp era Alloy Duratech (looks like a cannondale 2.8), a 1960s English Reynolds 531 "Sun WorkSop" track frame, learsport 6800 alu-car (zonal/carvè), a full cro-mo Giant (old 6/7 spd), and few wheelsets too..
You don’t have to many bikes. I have 49. They are a mix of 90s and early ‘00s road and MTB bikes. Out of all of them, only 2 are disc and they are both 24 yr old MTB bikes. I prefer rim brakes. I can’t wait to see your test results
There is far too much focus on tech specs and not enough on the actual riding we do and how often we really go out. It is so easy to fall into the tech trap, but for 80% of us a top end used rim brake bike more than does the job, plus you have a smile on your face! I actually ride a 2002 Klein Quantum Pro Q Carbon a few times a week and it is all I need.
Specialized Tarmac SL3, Campa record 10speed, Campa Shamal training wheels with 28mm Conti gp5000 and latex tubes, Speedplay Zero titanium pedals, S-works bottle cages and Garmin computer, 6,85kg. Same with Fulcrum Racing speed carbon wheels and Vittoria Corsa cx 23mm tubular, 6,3kg. Worked very well since 2010. And a very good ride.
For a fair comparison, I don’t think you should run identical tyres. One of the advantages of discs is the wider tyre clearance. Go for 30s on the disc brake version.
@@sebastiansowieso8179 This has already been proven wrong. 30mm is faster than 28mm, all else being equal. 32mm seems to be the point where wider stops being faster.
@@discbrakefan mate 25mm or 23 is faster on proper smooth roads that most of us ride. Look what is used in the velodrome. Look what is used in any road TT when riders had a choice. Look up bicyclerollingresistances data. But maybe you just ride cobbles and then in that case 30mm at 60psi is faster.
@@aboomination897 All depending how much one weights! I had road-bike rim brake based wheels that lasted nearly 60 thousand kilometers (14 years) and still were fine - had brake surface wear mark visible. Wheels got trashed in a car accident this year. My experience is one sooner wears the hub cones, spokes will break or wheels get wasted by some moron behind the wheel rather than brake surfaces reach the end of their life.
As someone with both a modern aero bike (Bianchi Oltre XR4) and an older (2014) carbon rim brake bike (Ridley), I can say that whilst my Garmin says I am going faster for the same wattage on my Bianchi, 40kph feels faster on my old Ridley than it does on my new bike and that's the impossible to quantify "smiles per hour" metric that explains why an old mechanical rim brake bike with thumb shifters (yeah for old school Campy) can never really be "replaced" by faster, newer tech.
Any video that references Durian Rider in any manner other than the online venereal disease that he is cannot be considered a serious or worthwhile video.
Im sure this will be your most liked comment ever in your youtube career. How does it feel that it only gets likes because you are mentioning me? Of all the flavours you could chose you still pick salty Adam. ;)
Hi Cam. I ride rim brakes on my road bike on carbon rims and they perform brilliantly in all weathers. My comparison for brake strength is my disc brake mtb that are also great. There is very little difference between the two types. I prefer disc where riding in dirt on the mtb. The bonus for me is that I can buy cheaper road bike rim brake products as I don’t subscribe to following all the marketing hype. Discs on road bikes aren’t necessary for 99.9% riders or conditions but feel free to keep buying them.
I've been doing this with a few new bikes. Taking the new one and finding an old version and completely redoing it. One's I've done so far are R5 SLR01 Specalissima
I wish durian rider would be left in oblivion and not show up in any video, but I will be curious to see the side by side review of both bikes! Kudos for getting like for like wheelsets.
sadly, many still don't know about his sexual abuse history towards women and the fact that he's basically operating a diet cult. So they still give him some kind of honorable mention.
Recently paired my Basso Venta 2022 Rim brake with a Wheeltop EDS TX Electronic groupset to get rid of the 2 mechanical cables. Now it just has the 2 brake cables and it looks as clean as a disc brake bike. The cherry on the top a pair of Lun Hyper 2023 R45 wheels which are insanely stiff, light and fast! I'm the one pulling the train to all my disc brake mates on most rides and dropping them off on climbs. 6,5kgs of raw beauty and power. Rim brakes for life!!! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I have bought two new Trek Madones I'm currently riding my old Rim Brake Argon 18 that is a rim brake bike. I see where the Madone excel as a bike definitely, but I do not like Disc Brakes at all. I do see where the technology could be used in certain situations like wet conditions or descending, however this is up to debate since all previous races for the last 100 + years were done on rim brakes and raced on rim brakes and everything was going as smooth and maybe better than the days of disc brakes dependability and usability wise. I never saw Riders complaining about Rim brakes but I do riders complaining about Disc brakes and how it is not user friendly and comes with extra weight, extra faf in terms of maintaining it, wheels locking up from braking and the list goes on in terms of the cons of disc brakes which outway the rim brakes by a lot. As a person who have raced professionally before I do not see the advantage disc brakes add for cyclists who race at high speeds above disc brakes, matter of fact they come in as a disadvantage. I'm open for more opinions from people who have tried both worlds... I'm sure pro riders cannot express their preferences due to conflict with the team's sponsor and the cycling industry.
There's less faf with disc brakes. On my rim brake bikes I was always picking pieces of aluminum out of the rubber brake pads and there would be a black residue all over the wheels after a wet weather ride. I literally never need to touch my disc brakes. If you get a little rub you can just push that piston in a little with a plastic tire lever and it's usually sorted. I never need to rebuild a wheel due to brake track wear with disc brakes; unlike the rims I've replace with rim brakes. An extra 0.5kg of disc brakes isn't slowing anyone down. The wider tire clearance and better rim profiles allowed by disc brakes is making them faster both for tire choice and aerodynamically.
@@matkrek I don't live in the UK and the vast majority of my rides are in dry conditions. There is no extra faf with disc. There's a few minor details that are different with maintaining disc brakes but overall require far less frequent faffing around. Bleeding brakes is harder for the average person and that's definitely harder but rarely needs to be done. Everything else with disc brakes is easier and requires less frequent attention than rim brakes.
Bought a white LOOK 585 frame in 2007, best bike I've ever owned. When they build a better looking and riding bike I'm interested, they just haven't built a better bike yet. Got it from look as a crash replacement at 1/2 cost, and update the DA group and wheelset along the way.
I have a rim brake bike with 11 speed mechanical Chorus, and a disc brake bike, and a Ultegra Di2 disc brake one. The rim brake one always works flawlessly with minimal maintenance. The disc brake/di2 one has zero braking power if it was standing for a few weeks (because I was enjoying the rim brake bike), once a year I run out of batteries, and for sure there is brake rub at one point in every ride. Needless to say while one is a keeper and which one will be replaced by the next (sadly disc brake) bike.
Second video in the series is now up: ua-cam.com/video/NnBDJ1XTlTQ/v-deo.htmlsi=W0LwfELk9CwkP8ZZ
Belgian Cyclist for 60 years here. Sold all my bikes and went back to my simple steel Bianchi 2 x 8 and durace rim brakes. Never any hassle, and soooo much more exciting to do my daily 80 km spin.
Funny how bicycle tech was perfected some time ago but the industry needs to keep coming up with ways to convince people their "old" bikes need to be replaced to stay competitive. It's nonsense. Wisdom does come with age my friend and you have seen the light.
Inderdaad.. af en toe rij ik een alu frame met shifters op de buis, 7 spd... Meer heeft ne mens niet nodig voor plezier langs een jaagpad 😊
@@kriss3492 inderdaad. Vandaag een mooue 70 km tocht met mijn 1976 Raleigh 1 x 8 buisshifters. Gewoonweg perfect. Door de heuvels en geen mens te zien, alleen schapen. Ben Vlaming van Brugge maar woon al sinds 1992 in ZW ierland
@@Left_hand_clapping There's no seeing the light and no conspiracy out there. I'm a heavier rider, as I also do bodybuilding besides cycling. Rim brakes are garbage and unsafe for me, specially on carbon rims. Hydraulic discs are just better. Also having up to 36T cogs with nice jumps in 12 speed cassettes helps me a lot in hill climbs. New tech is great and makes it possible for more people to ride bikes.
@@Left_hand_clapping"perfected" so much so that people regularly died due to it yeah
We perfected road bicycles when we moved the shifters from the downtube to the handlebars (by integrating them into the brake levers). Everything we've done since has solved a problem that really didn't need to be solved.
My thoughts too. The shifters on the down tube would invite your mate to drop you into the smallest cog before taking off to claim maximum KOM points. Not doable any more.
Oh boy…here they come. Let me just ask permission to like my carbon, disk brake, electronic shifting, tubeless and yes hookless bike. Please can I not feel bad for owning this?
@@tonyvitiello9897 No, you must feel bad. This hobby is only good when we do it my way.
ua-cam.com/video/ta41xU-tkFA/v-deo.html
I agree 110%. The rest of what came - and still will - in my mind its most for the sheep who must have the latest, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it is amazing the old school bike above weighs much less than the "new schooler." Disc brakes alone do weigh more than rim.
SALE OF THE CENTURY!
400g weight advantage is HUGE if performance is the focus.
What a legendary video! Comment Karens in 3....2....1.... xD
I ran so many tests with power meters and using 2 riders at once and repeating the climb etc etc and my SL7/SL8 Tarmac S-Works just always slower vs rim brake tarmacs with same tires/psi etc.
ok this answers me
Lol 400g is not HUGE in any context. Maybe 1-2w on only the steepest of climbs, virtually zero difference anywhere else.
Comment Karen ☝
Had an injury where bumbs are really hurting, so last week I swapped my old set of Bora Ultra 45mm (rim) wheels with 23mm front, 25mm back vs the wto60 (rim) with 28/28.
Yes they are more comfy so I don't have much pain, so it's working as intended.
But no one can tell me they are faster.
I have ridden some routes so often I immediately thought - wow, are my brakes on or what is the issue?
Deeper wheels, bigger tires (new contis should roll better than the ones on my old wheels), rest of the bike stayed the same - new setup is slower for me.
And now they push for 30mm and more. What a scam.
Your biggest weight saving is not having a brain.
I bought my retirement present. Litespeed. Mechanical gears. Rim brakes. All ultegra. It will function flawlessly for the rest of my life. Keep it simple.
I did the same but a lynskey. then the Etap was flat every time i went to ride it so i sold it. Still ride my 2009 Madone w/ XXX lite wheels & XXX lite carbon rim brakes. never let me down.
@@recyclebshop I love my similar aged Madone too. 10 speed dura ace and rim brakes.
In 2020 I bought a new Campa Chorus groupset for Gina, which is my 2007 Gios A90 racer, with the purpose to use smaller chainrings than in my younger days - and to use it for the last ten or twelve years of my cycling sports, I was already 64 years old then. Despite the opportynity to opt for discs, I chose the rimbrakes. They make a perfect pair with the Zonda wheels, powerful if I need it, sensible when I like it, and I can simply not figure out conditions where discs should be better, their extra mass aside.
@@klausschneider1045Good choice. In a peloton where most of the other riders are using disks, if you don't have them you may rear end other riders. When there was a mixture of rim and disk brakes there were more accidents apparently. In a pace line disk breaks may result in slightly reduced rider to rider distance. Disks could be useful to pros but not to us.
I hope you keep cycling for many more years.
well said, sir. And congrats on retirement!
Was shopping for a new bike frame this year and came across a brand new Factor 02 RIM brake on sale from the factory. Tremendous bike! Team Rim Brake all day!
Rim Brakes will never die. I’ve just sold my heavi new Scott addict disk and bought an SLR01 rim brake light and fast bike
Rim Brakes 4ever..LFG!!!!!
We used to say Apple II forever! 😊
I got into cycling, and road bikes, BECAUSE of their simplicity and ease of maintaining them. These modern works of art are crazy complicated, with wiring harnesses and hydraulics! I'm happy to be stuck in 2013 rim brake land!
SAME. 2013 BH Ultralight with newer mechanical DA. Love it. Won’t sell it.
Yeah, fuq it, we should be on wood rims and fixed gears! Tie-and-soldered spokes, leather saddles, and toe clips! Leather hairnets, wool kits, and cottered cranks! ALL THE OLD THINGS!!
What on Earth is so hard by puting a hose through a frame?
It is the same time for rim and disk. I find disk are much easyer to work on and to set up, plus the power you get from a diskbreak set up is superior
Agreed on the mechanical shifting, but I don't want my brakes to eat my expensive rims.
@@66mikkim Let me get this straight. You are saying that hydraulic disc brakes are easier to mount and work on than rim brakes?
If so, I think we’d all like to hear all about this.
Just been out on my 2014 Supersix EVO, campy chorus 11 speed mechanical, rim brakes, latex tubes.. beautiful ride 😊❤ great vid Cam.. love the refurb job.. Pete
Nice one Pete, did you see one of the comments was yours! That popped up on the screen. I know you're a rim fan
@@CamNichollsI like all bikes to be honest 😊
2013 Supersix Evo HM here, ye canna wack it!
Was perfect weather yesterday and no wind, took out the S-Works Rim brake bike for a spin, damn every straight line, climb and break in traffic I just had the urge to keep flooring it. Haven't had that sensation in other bikes for a while.
Rim Brakes FTW! I just bought a second-hand Cervélo R5 frame and combined it with my SRAM Red eTap 2017. I'm so in love.
@@trannel73 I've got the 1st eTap stuff and SRAM lost a lot by discontinuimg it even tho you can get rim compatible stuff (you can switch to 11spd in the axs app they tell me) it's not really known about.. obviously it's all about the disc
Bought the last new R3 with rim brakes I could find in Austria and Germany
@@Penzger nice. Glückwunsch. Na dann noch mal Glück gehabt ❤️🤓
@@leedorney agreed. Brainwashing keeps going 😅
If you can ride a bike properly and with confidence rim brakes are king 😊 if your not confident go with dirty discs as you will wear your rims out
Rim brakes are the future. It’s the only way bike companies can get people to buy a new bike!
the rim brake isnt a component, its a way of life
IYKYK.
Rim brakes ARE life
Backwards life...
LOL ... or you could say it just has a much larger diameter disk.
a way to lose your life yeah
I went back to rim and its just as fast and easy to work on
Some people refuses to run on tubulars because of the "faff".. Often the same people who runs disc brakes... "Faff" was the word.... Rgr
@@borano2031 Disc brakes are only a faff for people not used to them. Installing them the first time might be somewhat complicated, but if your bike came with decent ones you're not replacing in the short term, my disc brake MTB and road bike take 5 minutes of bleeding every couple of months (Shimano bleed cup is easy as can be). Once a year, I properly clean the calipers and pistons. Replacing pads less than once a year takes 10 seconds, maybe another 20 if I need to reset the pistons, not needing any other adjustment. Replacing discs every couple of years requires maybe a minute per wheel.
Compared to the faff of replacing rim brake pads on my touring bike after one holiday of intensive use (for some even during the bike trip), adjusting and readjusting the pad to the rim, and replacing the whole frickin rim after the brake track is worn, I'd say rim brakes are overrated. And that's before I compare performance in the wet and during long descents, and modulation.
@@borano2031go back to the retirement home gramps, you seem to need assistance
Stop watching bike videos. But i see rim brakes, i am watching!!
I bought a 1989 Trek 660 Crit bike about a month or two ago. All original Shimano 600 Ultegra. I overhauled the components myself and added some high performance brake pads. It honestly stops so well and its fast enough to hang with modern bikes.
Nice to see rim brakes getting some attention again. 👍🏻
Again? People haven't ever shut up about rim brakes
In the 1970's we toured in the pouring rain loaded down with 30-40lbs. in mountain terrain with center-pull brakes, and it worked fine. I also never saw old steel frame bikes snap when they hit a pothole, landing the rider in the hospital.
I snapped few steel frames one beyond repair, cracked 2 aluminium frames and yet my carbon frame still holds after hitting few potholes in high speed. To put the weight weenies into perspective I'm 193cm tall and 99-100kg. Disc brakes are safer and way better than rim brakes and would allow me to use carbon rims but I don't have the budget to replace my bike...
I've had 4 531 frames crack on me, I think it must be a record. I currently have two steel framed road bikes, built with chromoly, whichI think is indestructable and I love them. Rim brakes work but can be a bit dodgy in certain conditions. My cantis on my steel tourer are shite but they still stop me and are easy to repair/service in the most remote areas of the world. The more complexity built into a machine creates more possibilities for failure. Retro is best.
@@radimvavrecka3481 road bikes are not designed particularly for your weight. also do you ever hear about ceramic rims for v-brake? they perform like disc brakes but they don't need any maintenance for years.
thats the problem, you have to spend
@@leart78 I'm happy with disc brakes on my MTBs since 2000, wouldn't chance for V brakes under any conditions. I have Mavic Exalith rims on my road bike and the coating on rear rim is wearing of... It's the best option for road calipers but nowhere close to discs. Most standard bike parts and frames are designed for 110-130kg limit.
@@markschneider3915 “worked fine” is relative. Yeah you could get around on them for sure, but disc brakes add a lot of confidence and just work in the rain. Even Greg Lemond said he would choose disc brakes every damn time if he had that choice when he was racing.
I’ve recently sold my giant tcr disc brake which I was racing on as I didn’t have much time left. Bought a Parlee Z1 rim brake with sram red 22 mechanical. Probably the nicest most comfortable bike I have ever ridden. Could argue it’s as fast if not faster than giant even with narrow alloy rims. I’ve been converted
of course it is faster lol. Why you think Pog used rim brakes every chance he got. Why you think Colnago put out a rim brake model for him to ride next year in the TDF?
Glad to hear, I sold my 2018 disc tcr and bought a 2008 tcr, It’s great on clinchers, rides like a dream on tubulars, I just didn’t know before.
Giant still sell rim brakes models. Just bought a brand new TCR Advanced rim brakes this year.
I love my rim brake teammachines, got 5 now, talking about addiction. direct mount rim brakes never got the chance they really truly deserved.
True. Direct mount rim brakes are such an elegant design.
This. We make a direct mount brake and they are completely amazing
yup, Direct-Mount rim brakes are the overall A-1 brake set up for pure road bikes.
💯♨stuff
I was working as a mechanic when Shimano rolled out the direct-mount design, and I remember thinking at the time "it's a shame Shimano perfected the rim brake at the exact moment when it's about to be obsolete" (we all knew road disc brakes were coming soon).
I got 1 Scott addict R4 , full duraace 9000, whells dura ace C24, ready do ride weigth 6.8kg, i love it, old but gold 👌🏻
The level of details going into these tests is insane, Cam.
Kudos
You know I've always desired a BMC so really looking forward to part 2. I recently sold my cannondale supersix evo with disc brakes and ultegra and purchased a Condor Italia with rim brakes and campagnolo athena, oh boy am I now a happy cyclist. Yes there is a weight gain but I've fallen back in love, no more squeal from the disc brakes and the feel of the ride is superb I've even getting more PBs on Strava.
I was all about MTBs getting disk brakes, I would say it's even necessary. But that's a whole different animal. I recently started road biking again. I didn't want to put a bunch of money into a current bike, so I picked up an older Cannondale r1000 with full Dura-ace. I rebuilt the bike just to freshen it up, and as I ride it, I've thought to myself a few times, "Why did anybody bother putting disc brakes on these things? It stops on a dime as is, and it's lighter." I find it interesting to see videos like this confirming my thoughts.
2016 BMC SLR02 rim brake teammachine + Assioma Duo user here, this hits close to home. Whatever the results I can say it's really fun bike to ride, and it's very budget friendly (upfront and upkeep considered)
I'm soo glad the first thing I learned how to do was fix everything on my bike. Saved so much money
Bought an old giant advanced defy rim brake last week, enjoying it more than anything
Awesome.
I bought one three weeks ago. Most fun I’ve had in years !
I did the same. Ditched Campy EPS disc on my Basso Diamante and went back to my Diamante rim with SR mechanical rim. Life is just simpler when you can ride more and fuss less.
Still riding 2011 Colnago C50 ( the last year they were handmade in Italy) with Campy Super Record mech with rim brakes....probably ride this til I am no more.
I've got a extreme power from 2009? A beauty
Rim brakes and DuraAce 2013 rims for the win! The tracks are alloy but they are the lightest wheels I've ever had my hands on.
aluminum blade spoke rims ARE INSANE LIGHT!!!❤❤❤
Yep. I have Ultegra WH-6700 wheelset. Very narrow rims and aero spokes. Or actually shall type had these - 2 weeks ago they got trashed (got hit by a car).
Very light and easy to spin wheels. Earlier this year I found even lighter hub for a front wheel. Searched so the spokes would not have to be replaced. And? Bitex RSPF (front) worked like a dream. Imagine Ultegra was like 160 grams and the scale for Bites showed 92 g.- 2/3 the weight. Just 🤩
@@madyogi6164 Bummer on the crash. Hope you and the bike came out in relatively good shape.
@@madyogi6164 😳🤯
@@jamesmckenzie3532 Not quite... But I'll live.
it's a very good point to highlight re 2nd hand bikes like this. Sellers very unwilling to understand the actual practical value (frame only basically as they ride them into the ground without maintenance). You got to completely gut the bike and build it back up with new components (often very hard to get too) so the cost of a 2nd hand bike is never the hand over cost, add at least another $500 in components. This has always been my real world experience doing this but I love the feeling of rebuilding a nice clean serviced fresh bike.
Since 2013 I've been checking out bike specs & geometry and here's what I noticed. And also my experience using rim and hydraulic brakes.
1) Geometry - Modern bikes are getting way more aero (lower stack, longer reach) for the same sized bike. Old endurance is now a modern gravel geometry. Same as old race = modern endurance, old aero = modern race. My personal tip is whatever bike feels the best for you, use it's stack and reach when purchasing new one. Buy whatever the size is closest to it's geometry.
2) Materials - Modern bikes and parts are mostly made with carbon which is not friendly for heavy riders. Old bikes and parts are mostly made from alloy and can handle heavy riders. You can still go home or complete the race after a crash without worrying about reliability.
3) Braking - Modern disc are best suited for rainy weather. The wheelset itself can last a long time when taken care properly. The only concern is the tiny clearance of brake pads and brake can lock up easily. Old rim best for dry weather. Brakes have bigger clearance and better modulation. Carbon rim will wear out quickly when dirt gets in there during rain. No matter how much you take care, eventually the brake line will wear out and need to be replaced or buy a new wheelset.
4) Wheels - Modern disc can easily accomodate larger tires. They also have wider inner rim width. Which is heavy rider friendly. Old disc specially the older ones can only accomodate 23/25c. They also have limitations in inner rim width. They only work for 90kg below riders.
5) Weight - Hands down for same model or same price, old rim is always lighter than modern disc. The tech, R&D, cost is still not there for modern bikes. The price increase vs performance benefits are not worth it.
6) Other tech - Integrated cockpit or proprietary parts. If it doesn't work for you, you will have to replace lots of parts and may have hard time finding it. Unlike old stem dropbar combo, the adjustment and customization is unlimited, way cost friendly. Most parts uses the same standard. Inner cabling looks good but external cable maintenance is a breeze.
7) Takeaway - If you are looking for best performance vs price value go for any rim bikes. If you are 90kg below go for (2017-2019) rim bikes that can handle 28c. If you are above 90kg go for modern disc, with tire width being proportional to your weight.
RIM BRAKE MAFIA FOREVER!
I really have to applaud you for going through the trouble of addressing deterioration and maintenance - there are countless videos comparing new and old bikes where they essentially pull an old bike out of the shed that has seen many miles, weather, dirt, sweat and so on and pit it against something fresh off the sales floor and then of course conclude that older bikes simply can't keep up with the technology of today.
Still enjoying my 1992 Merlin Extralight. Campy Chorus 10s, rim brakes, tubulars, King hs, Reynolds carbon fork.
Miles of smiles.
Easy to maintain.
The Extralight is truly one of the greatest frames ever made. I've been searching for a deal on one in my size for a decade now, but this is a frame which retains its value.
@@manysnakes I would agree. The Extralight has proven to be a great value over time, in spite of the high initial cost. Rob Vandermark designed it well, and Tim Delaney's welding has stood the test of time. Both men are still involved at Seven Cycles today, building frames as good as, or better than the old Merlin. A Seven could be a worthy alternate choice, if you can't find a vintage Merlin.
Loved my Merlin Extralight ! Until some muppets stole it ! Also had a Merlin Cielo .. stunning but had a serious speed wobble ! Now riding a Look 785 RS Huez with rim brakes .. a dream ride.
@JonathanCooper-t3q Bummer about your EL getting stolen. The Ciello was the carbon/ti mixed frame? Glad you are enjoying your LOOK. Farfagnugen!
@@Scott-ph2yk thanks for the feedback.. yes Cielo was carbon and ti glued together.. fine until I reached 50kph and then the wobble started ! Love my Look and I have a steel Colnago Tecnos which is also awesome!
Still have my rim brake TCR. Yes, so much happier with it’s simplicity compared to my newer disc brake. Durian speaks a lot of sense about cycling. Love him or hate him.
Still riding my slr01 rim brake. 6kg with a power meter.
I'm still riding my Specialized Allez 2019 rim brake bike. Some friends think that riding downhill is safer on a disc brake road bike, but as a descender, I'm not sure I agree. Just like with climbing, it's the rider, not the bike, that makes the difference. When it comes to descending, it's your handling skills and confidence on the bike that will keep you safe. While better bikes or equipment can assist, they won't make much difference if you're a slow climber or a fearful descender.
I recently started riding my 2015 Jamis Icon (rim brake) again. Love simplicity of it.
Used to Own a Specialized SL6 Disc Brake Bike, had it for 4 years plus, The Bike was Fantastic, Stiff, Fast and Climbed and Handled well but couldn't wait to get Rid of it as it was Disc, A pain in the Arse to Bleed, Everything about Disc Brake System is Expensive and then one of the Levers started to leak, Sold it on Ebay and went back to my Scott Solace Rim Brake.
I have a 2009 Pro Machine SLC01 that is still going strong!
The dura ace 9000 wheels with aluminium brake track were awesome, great stopping power and super light. Agree with you when you fall back in love with good rim brake bikes. I had a sram red 22 mech group at one stage aswell and dam it was crisp and light
I’ve got a set of those on my Seven! Agree, they are an amazing wheel set.
I have both and won't be taking sides but my rim brake I can't remember when I last had brake problems and my disc brake routinely cleaning rotors, sanding pads, squealing, also my last pads picked up oil spill from a road and cancelled a ride as I couldn't come to a stop safely 🤷♂️ so complex. If I had a one piece bar I'd probably quit cycling 🤣
@@leslie7922 No idea how you’re having all those issues with disc brakes!
Disc brakes for 3 years, zero issues
@@leslie7922 why so many issues, what are you doing to them. I have 4 disk brake bikes. Never touch them, never have issues, never any touching. Replaced pads on one, the gravel bike. I don’t have any issues with the rim brake bikes I have either. Ride them when I want to go old school retro.
Great that you're doing this Cam!
All the comparisons I've seen so far are full of problems; not comparing bikes with similar components, ie apples to apples - it's always skewed to make the disc bike look better.
And the weight discussion - there is more to it than just climbing times. A light bike is more responsive and accelerates better, which makes a difference in group rides and races. No UA-camrs talk about it.
And then there are always discussions about aerodynamics, but that is a completely separate issue. Give a rim brake the same modern aero features and the difference will be negligible, and may even favour the rim brake bike.
Not to mention price, maintenance, etc.
Really looking forward to Part 2!
Rim brakes never ahould have been discontinued. Lets see pricing come down and sanity coming back to the bike industry.
it became more of an issue when everyone was riding carbon wheels and the dangers of wearing the carbon rim too thin...
Plenty of rim brakes on ebay, I even sold a pair on it myself.
@@alexanderlawson1649 if a tcr with rim brakes costs $500 while a new disc brake version costs $5000 then the decision for me is easy.
Unless you want to brake in the rain.
@@timw4369 What are you talking about? Maybe you’d like us all to go back to steel bikes with back-pedal brakes and toe straps?
Things move on. People want better bikes. And disc brakes are better. You’ve been duped by the clickbait influencers.
Cheers to Assioma!!! Picked up my pair about 3-4 years ago and still work great, love them.
As someone who's currently on a rim brake 10+ year old Swervelo and considering upgrading to a Disc Brake Canyon, I'll be keeping an eye on these test!
Ive got a BMC Timemachine TMR02 with some carbon wheels for RB and a carbon cockpit. And oh boy that bike is rapid. Completely in love. And the rise is soooo silent u cant hear a single thing.
I hate my discs and will be going back to rim brakes very soon. Clean, effective, simple to maintain.
SIMPLICITY is the key to a happy life. No disc shit for me. Rim for life.
Finally a true comparison on UA-cam. Looking forward to the testing. Getting the same wheels is master glass - this is so often missed by others when doing a comparison. Thanks Cam
I'm afraid to ride my old Colnago cx1 full sram red cause I will probably fall in love again with it and will not want to ride my new expensive disc brakes bike again 😂
@@Thom4aa4s I owned a CX1 full Campy. Very tasty bike.
Send it my way and I’ll
Ride it. 👍👍
@@ArnageLM me too but was too big. sold it was white
Amazing! I just went back to a 2020 SLR01 Teammachine w/ Ultegra Di2 and direct mount brakes. 28mm tyres for dayzzz and such a good ride. A rim brake bike will make you enjoy working on your bike again. Just came in from a ride with heavy rain and I was running aluminum rims in anticipation and honestly the braking power felt so similar to my disc brake bike. Maybe even a little less twitchy and more linear.
Love my Rim brake 2019 Cervelo R3 , smooth sailing
Subbed... This is why I bought the last gen TCR with ultegra mechanical and rim brake... Intrigued to see the results on this comparison
Give us more heavier, noisier, and more complicated brakes, said no one ever. Good on you!
If cables are inferior, guitarist would all be playing keyboard guitars instead of strumming and noodling away on stages world wide.
I can’t wait to see I was right about everything I have been saying. Yes, the rim bike will win. That’s my prediction. Simply because frame aerodynamics is literally 1% of your total drag. All other things being equal, In a stage race weight will matter more.
It will also corner better and handle better and feel better then the disc bike.
I just picked up a new rim brake TCR (last of its kind). I'm still resisting. Have Hed JET Blacks which are awesome for rim braking. -U10
PS - It can take 32s too (with the non series shimano brakes they make and few know about).
Model?
I love my 2011 Cervélo R5 rim brake bike. Super light Highway 1 model, and the external cables are the cherry on top! ❤
Half a second of Old Mate cracks me up again 🤣
I have a San Remo 76, Ultegra rim brakes with ENVE pads, I absolutely love it. Ride it all the time. I'm relatively light and don't ride in the rain so I can't say I've ever had any issues with stopping power. I'm easily able to lock the wheels completely so the weak point in the braking system is the tires not the brakes. Disc brakes would be a marginal improvement in feel maybe but they wouldn't actually improve my ability to stop the bike under normal riding conditions.
The new C68 RIM BRAKE bike is 🔥🔥🔥
Never selling my 2014 Merckx EMX rim brake. A few months into Covid I upgraded to Ultegra 11 speed with Dura Ace shifters and Roval SLX aluminum wheelset (21mm internal) running tubeless 28mm Continentals. Assioma Duo pedals round it out and it’s 16.5 lbs ready to ride. Properly adjusted brake pads are gold Jerry … GOLD.
A big benefit for discs is in the mountains.
Not burning away the rims of your 2k+ wheels while braking is always nice.
I descended Mount Grappa (27 km, 1600 m) last fall on (rental bike) rim brakes and I really missed my disc brakes every single switchback. Disc brakes are far better in the mountains.
I ride a lot of steep hills (15-20+%). Discs are essential.
Proud owner of an R3 Dark Edition since 2014, Dura R9100 and HUNT 36/50 rims. Stopped weighing when it got to 6.6kgs…done many century rides and a double, brakes have served me well going down 30% hills…the trick is the maintenance..clean bike is a fast bike 👍
LONG LIVE THE RIM BRAKE!
I will second that!
I just bought a used Trek Madone (late 2000s model, $700, rim brakes) and I’m digging it so far. I’m used to riding on hybrid bikes and MTBs. I’m a fan of DurianRider and he seems very knowledgeable on older vs newer road bikes so I I decided to get an older one as my first one.
In 3 to 5 years we will all be riding rim brake bikes again.
There is no reason to except delusional, brainwashed people who want to believe their old bike is better than new ones 😂
I never swapped to disc as I realised it wasn't really a major gain versus all the fettling and noise.. I done a lot of riding on long descents in the Pyrenees and have seen first hand how feathering rim brakes is safer than feathering discs. The smaller discs get much hotter than rims and brake failure is more likely with discs.
Fuck yeah RIM BRAKES. I regret selling my rim brake trek Emonda for a disc trek Emonda, ugh
Looking forward to seeing the next videos. I have a 2016 MBC GF02 and have never made the move to disc brakes. Excellent channel by the way!
Yea Cam 🖖🇬🇧 Respect Dude,
I'm the same Vintage Down Tube Shifters.
Vitus 979 & Peugeot Perthus Pro Reynolds 753r Rim Brakes All Mechanical.
I like to keep things simple and believe your engine, weight and ability are priority. Mechanical discs on a 1x Ti gravel bike that I use on mixed terrain (singletrack, grass, woodchips) to train and enjoy at the same time, and the 2011 carbon Ridley road has SRAM Red rim brakes which I run 28mm vittorio rubino tires on. I get tempted to change, but I really like this road setup still, and I'm sticking with it. Never had issues with rim brakes including big, wet descents on multi day "holidays" in the French Pyrenees.
BMC didn't want to sponsor you because they already well know that all the "innovations" in the new model are pure BS.
Lucky enough to have both rim and newly acquired a Focus disc road bike. The much older Giant Defy with rim brakes is still the go to due to its more 'relaxed' fit. Wont be selling it anytime soon and will be booking it for a full check over just like your BMC. Just getting back into riding and new sub today. Great channel
Gone back to my 2009 aluminium bike recently. So much less hassle, no proprietary parts & even as an alu frame, lighter than my carbon disc brake bikes. The only problem was the tyre clearance, which I solved by fitting 650bs which allow up to 30mm tyres. Now absolutely no way I‘m going back to anything else
Love my 2012 alloy rim brake but yeah 28s is wide as I can go..,that’s my only gripe
How did you fit 650b’s on a rim brake frame?
No way you are fitting a 650b with rim breaks the inner rim diameter don´t match up
Long-reach calipers or drop bolts?
looking onto my balcony at my retired BMC 2016 slr02 rim brake bike that replaced my earlier 2010 BMC roadmaster SLX01 (in storage).......lovely to ride on the rare occasions but in London UK, disc brakes win every time....stopping distance in traffic and reliability (noise not withstanding). Current bike for last two years a Specialzed Aethos disc....which is great everywhere.
Cannondale Supersix evo from 2012-2017 is where it's at, with latest shimano mechanical ultegra, could not ask for more!
I have a hi-mod from 2017 and I can't part with it.
Agreed… I upgraded all components on my 2012 CAAD10 and it’s still a mean crit bike. A head turner too being aluminum and rim brake with exposed cables no less 😅
Best was Dura-Ace 9100 mechanical. Last of the old-school rim brake groupsets.
I recently dusted the cobwebs off of my 2010 Specialized Roubaix/Ultegra and took it for a spin for the first time in about four years. Didn't spend a penny on it and it rode just as good as it ever has; zero complaints.
One of the main reasons to go disc brake is so you can put bigger (faster) tires on the bike, so you should be using 32s on the disc brake bike for comparison, or at least compare both 28s and 32s on the disc bike vs the biggest tires you can fit into the rim bike
Bigger tires are not faster though. Maybe in certain conditions, but generally, they aren't.
"bigger(faster)" lol
Why stop at 32mm?
Many of the last gen rim bikes with direct mount brakes could happily take a 30. I’d imagine if the R&D had continued there’d be 32 options by now. And then advances in brake track tech too.
that old bmc is still pretty sweet. i still rock my 2012 BMC roadracer sl01 10 speed with a few groupset and wheelset updates here n there is still a fantastic bike ride.
Yasss, love this project! I owned a TM SLR01 ‘16 with Ultegra 6800. Damn fast bike. Rode Amstel Gold fondo with it in ‘23. Climbing was perfect. Downhill bit tricky in wet with carbon wheels 😅.
Noice! We're on the hymn sheet then it seems.
@@CamNicholls sold the thing and joined the dark side = gravelbike with discs.
@@ArnageLM had a ride on one at a demo day, fastest and most responsive beast ever ridden
@@DavidStacey-tx7on tbh, it felt faster than my Tarmac SL6 disc. So responsive and direct and pretty comfortable.
Recently a BB cup seized and main bike was in the shop. Had to dust off the steel bike with 10s 105 group(mechanical and rim brake). My biggest complaint was hood shape, but overall the bike was still really fun to ride after I got the position adjusted.
Cam, it's not an addiction.. I have 9 bikes 3 frames, including Dedaccai Asoluto, a series 1 giant TCR-0 dura-ace 9, Principia t28, Teschner Race Pro, 2 Avanti Corsas, (one Columbus Aeroplane alu car, the other is 2017 Cora SL team), a Look 695 aerolight dura ace di2, a colnago Mexico with suntour superb/superb pro/mavic components, and a 1995 Gios aniversay with a mix of Campagnolo 9.. 20 od sets of wheels, including Zipp 440 tubular with the ti blade spokes and ti/carbon Zipp hubs.. all pre disc..
See not a problem at all 😂
hahah 9! That is truly epic
@CamNicholls there's more, but I've put them up for sale at a mates bike shop. (Ideal Cycles) theres 8sp era Alloy Duratech (looks like a cannondale 2.8), a 1960s English Reynolds 531 "Sun WorkSop" track frame, learsport 6800 alu-car (zonal/carvè), a full cro-mo Giant (old 6/7 spd), and few wheelsets too..
Phew, there's someone with more than me.
You don’t have to many bikes. I have 49. They are a mix of 90s and early ‘00s road and MTB bikes. Out of all of them, only 2 are disc and they are both 24 yr old MTB bikes. I prefer rim brakes. I can’t wait to see your test results
There is far too much focus on tech specs and not enough on the actual riding we do and how often we really go out. It is so easy to fall into the tech trap, but for 80% of us a top end used rim brake bike more than does the job, plus you have a smile on your face! I actually ride a 2002 Klein Quantum Pro Q Carbon a few times a week and it is all I need.
Love the comparison mate, makes you wonder if spending 10,000 on a bike is really all that
Diminishing returns past a certain point for average folks. Not sure what that point is.
Without a doubt, spending 10,000 $/£ on a bicycle can never be all that, it just can't.
Specialized Tarmac SL3, Campa record 10speed, Campa Shamal training wheels with 28mm Conti gp5000 and latex tubes, Speedplay Zero titanium pedals, S-works bottle cages and Garmin computer, 6,85kg. Same with Fulcrum Racing speed carbon wheels and Vittoria Corsa cx 23mm tubular, 6,3kg. Worked very well since 2010. And a very good ride.
For a fair comparison, I don’t think you should run identical tyres. One of the advantages of discs is the wider tyre clearance. Go for 30s on the disc brake version.
@@JonReid very good point!
On a normal road 25mm won't be slower than 30mm. Probably faster. More than 28mm is just for comfort
@@sebastiansowieso8179 it depends what’s normal where you live. Normal in the UK is one step from gravel.
@@sebastiansowieso8179 This has already been proven wrong. 30mm is faster than 28mm, all else being equal. 32mm seems to be the point where wider stops being faster.
@@discbrakefan mate 25mm or 23 is faster on proper smooth roads that most of us ride. Look what is used in the velodrome. Look what is used in any road TT when riders had a choice.
Look up bicyclerollingresistances data.
But maybe you just ride cobbles and then in that case 30mm at 60psi is faster.
Sticking with my carbon disc brake bike, but going back to alloy wheels. And hooked. And tubes.
Disc for dirt, rim for road. IYKYK
Exactly
Yep, thats how i roll.
disc also for an all-year-commuter. it's not so much about the break performance, more about the rim's life expectancy.
@RimBrakeKing 'rimbrakeking', lolol.
@@aboomination897 All depending how much one weights! I had road-bike rim brake based wheels that lasted nearly 60 thousand kilometers (14 years) and still were fine - had brake surface wear mark visible. Wheels got trashed in a car accident this year. My experience is one sooner wears the hub cones, spokes will break or wheels get wasted by some moron behind the wheel rather than brake surfaces reach the end of their life.
As someone with both a modern aero bike (Bianchi Oltre XR4) and an older (2014) carbon rim brake bike (Ridley), I can say that whilst my Garmin says I am going faster for the same wattage on my Bianchi, 40kph feels faster on my old Ridley than it does on my new bike and that's the impossible to quantify "smiles per hour" metric that explains why an old mechanical rim brake bike with thumb shifters (yeah for old school Campy) can never really be "replaced" by faster, newer tech.
Any video that references Durian Rider in any manner other than the online venereal disease that he is cannot be considered a serious or worthwhile video.
Im sure this will be your most liked comment ever in your youtube career. How does it feel that it only gets likes because you are mentioning me? Of all the flavours you could chose you still pick salty Adam. ;)
@@DurianriderCyclingTips lol you're so bothered by it
Hi Cam. I ride rim brakes on my road bike on carbon rims and they perform brilliantly in all weathers. My comparison for brake strength is my disc brake mtb that are also great. There is very little difference between the two types. I prefer disc where riding in dirt on the mtb. The bonus for me is that I can buy cheaper road bike rim brake products as I don’t subscribe to following all the marketing hype. Discs on road bikes aren’t necessary for 99.9% riders or conditions but feel free to keep buying them.
Looking forward to the results 😎
I've been doing this with a few new bikes. Taking the new one and finding an old version and completely redoing it.
One's I've done so far are
R5
SLR01
Specalissima
I wish durian rider would be left in oblivion and not show up in any video, but I will be curious to see the side by side review of both bikes! Kudos for getting like for like wheelsets.
Indeed! Can’t he just be forgotten
🤣Durian exists to equilibrate the other side of the bike industry that wants you to buy disk brakes and integrated carbon bikes.
@@musclelessfitness2045 Durian rider is a hysterical clickbait troll with a very dubious background.
@@discbrakefan to put it mildly!
sadly, many still don't know about his sexual abuse history towards women and the fact that he's basically operating a diet cult. So they still give him some kind of honorable mention.
Recently paired my Basso Venta 2022 Rim brake with a Wheeltop EDS TX Electronic groupset to get rid of the 2 mechanical cables. Now it just has the 2 brake cables and it looks as clean as a disc brake bike.
The cherry on the top a pair of Lun Hyper 2023 R45 wheels which are insanely stiff, light and fast! I'm the one pulling the train to all my disc brake mates on most rides and dropping them off on climbs. 6,5kgs of raw beauty and power. Rim brakes for life!!! 💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I have bought two new Trek Madones I'm currently riding my old Rim Brake Argon 18 that is a rim brake bike. I see where the Madone excel as a bike definitely, but I do not like Disc Brakes at all. I do see where the technology could be used in certain situations like wet conditions or descending, however this is up to debate since all previous races for the last 100 + years were done on rim brakes and raced on rim brakes and everything was going as smooth and maybe better than the days of disc brakes dependability and usability wise. I never saw Riders complaining about Rim brakes but I do riders complaining about Disc brakes and how it is not user friendly and comes with extra weight, extra faf in terms of maintaining it, wheels locking up from braking and the list goes on in terms of the cons of disc brakes which outway the rim brakes by a lot. As a person who have raced professionally before I do not see the advantage disc brakes add for cyclists who race at high speeds above disc brakes, matter of fact they come in as a disadvantage. I'm open for more opinions from people who have tried both worlds... I'm sure pro riders cannot express their preferences due to conflict with the team's sponsor and the cycling industry.
Whats didc disadvantage for racers ? Weight and locking up?
There's less faf with disc brakes. On my rim brake bikes I was always picking pieces of aluminum out of the rubber brake pads and there would be a black residue all over the wheels after a wet weather ride. I literally never need to touch my disc brakes. If you get a little rub you can just push that piston in a little with a plastic tire lever and it's usually sorted. I never need to rebuild a wheel due to brake track wear with disc brakes; unlike the rims I've replace with rim brakes.
An extra 0.5kg of disc brakes isn't slowing anyone down. The wider tire clearance and better rim profiles allowed by disc brakes is making them faster both for tire choice and aerodynamically.
@@Pastamistic disc brakes for rainy Britain only. No rim brake FAF in dry conditions
@@matkrek I don't live in the UK and the vast majority of my rides are in dry conditions. There is no extra faf with disc. There's a few minor details that are different with maintaining disc brakes but overall require far less frequent faffing around. Bleeding brakes is harder for the average person and that's definitely harder but rarely needs to be done. Everything else with disc brakes is easier and requires less frequent attention than rim brakes.
@@Pastamistic my rim brakes never squeal or need a rebleed. Pads last longer than disc brake rotors and pads…
Bought a white LOOK 585 frame in 2007, best bike I've ever owned. When they build a better looking and riding bike I'm interested, they just haven't built a better bike yet. Got it from look as a crash replacement at 1/2 cost, and update the DA group and wheelset along the way.
I have a rim brake bike with 11 speed mechanical Chorus, and a disc brake bike, and a Ultegra Di2 disc brake one. The rim brake one always works flawlessly with minimal maintenance. The disc brake/di2 one has zero braking power if it was standing for a few weeks (because I was enjoying the rim brake bike), once a year I run out of batteries, and for sure there is brake rub at one point in every ride. Needless to say while one is a keeper and which one will be replaced by the next (sadly disc brake) bike.