And here's me returning to road bikes after too many years away and feeling rather happy and impressed with my Trek Domane AL2 with Claris group set... 😂
Yates’ Merckx. It’s just beautiful. Fell in love with that when I first started racing but could never afford it. But it was second fiddle, in my teenage fantasy money-no-option stable of bikes. There was the navy blue and orange Domex team Merckx bike (with Campy deltas. Sorry Shimano, but those deltas will forever be the best looking brakes. You couldn’t stop with them but you’d look amazing!! 😁) that was my absolute dream bike. Stunner!
The most modern group set (assuming I could afford it). I've gotten into cycling (mostly touring/trekking) somewhat more seriously maybe 10 years ago, so I didn't really build up much sentiment for the retro stuff. Modern groups are both efficient and good-looking. Still, in GCN standards I would certainly qualify as a beginner, and I'm more than happy with low-end modern groups as well.
Dura Ace is great as long as you can afford it or you are a pro cyclist and someone sponsors it for you. As an average person I will go with the mechanical 105 :)
As an average person I will take integral di2. As a poor person, I would still take 105 di2 over mechanical even if it meant I had to live on the street and eat canned beans.
I have first generation Dura Ace components on my 1977 Trek. It was my only bike I rode for 45 years until last year when the crank arm broke and it didn't feel safe any more. Still, 45 years of use isn't too bad.
@@danielhall3895 I did replace the crank arm and previously replaced the bottom bracket. Had previously rebuilt it from scratch with the original components. But everything creaks and rattles and the old brakes (yes new pads) are not very good at stopping me at my current weight. A new bike with hydraulic disc brakes is so so much more confidence inspiring.
@@gcn It's fixed. I still rode it a few times this summer. Put thousands of miles on it previous couple summers. New bike feels more secure, but old one is still going. I weigh two Vingegaards, so new disc brakes help a lot.
In 1974 as a High School student working at a bike shop I ordered a complete Durace group set and a Palo Alto Vitus tubing frame set. Still wished I had it today !
My first race bike when I was 15 was Dura Ace EX. It was considered third tier at the time. Everybody ran Campagnolo if they could. Sun Tour Superbe also got a lot of respect, but it cost as much or more than Campagnolo, and repair parts weren't available. 7400 was the game changer. It wasn't just the indexing. The whole groupset was higher quality and built for durability (for real). It didn't hurt that Suntour's derailleur patents had just expired, and Tullio Campagnolo passed away.
Superbe Pro was much more elegant appearing but when SIS showed up, it rang the death knell for Sun Tour. I had Sun Tour and loved it but made the shift to Shimano 600(tricolor) in the early 90s.
I'm pleased that you mention SunTour which was the most innovative of all though tragically badly managed. Their Superbe Pro was the pinnacle of design at the time. Both Shimano and much later, Campagnolo copied their designs. Shimano's SIS was their first game changer though.
I grew up in cycling (and working in bike shops) in the late 70s and early 80s. Suntour & Campy were the standards - Elegant, functional, - and repairable. Suntour competed with all of these innovations, but in a way that could be added to their previous versions - and could be worked on. I raced on Suntour for many years (then switched to Campy) and I was truly sorry to see them go. I still have a bike with Suntour and I have been able to keep it running like a champ. The decline of the competition between Suntour, Campy, Shimano, etc. has been detrimental to cycling overall - both in price and in innovation.
I love Dura Ace. I' m in my 40th season of cycling now and used bikes with 7400, 7700 7800 and 9000 versions. I will never forget the feeling of using SIS for the first time and later on STI...it blew me away! But the best thing about Dura Ace is the perfection of manufactering. Durability and function are and have always been excellent. My current bike has Ultegra DI2, which is fine, but hey, it's not the same. Thank you for the video! I wonder how the next gen of Dura Ace will look like!
I love my Dura-Ace 9100, 11 speed mechanical rim brake set up. I have no doubt it could still win a pro tour stage, and it's a bargain by comparison to electronic.
Suntour with Dia-Compe actually developed sprung levers with light caliper spring brakes earlier, as the response to the spongieness of aero levers, to compensate for the restricted cable path of the brake cable routed along the handle bars.
Thank You for your input. Personally I'm a Campagnolo guy. I trust their products. I presently now using a Chorus 12 speed mechanical group set with rim brakes. Often I mixed components when I formerly built up my own frames. And I just subscribed!
And ebay also offers very good reproduction Super record brake pads too! I have been using the red scott mathauser pads on my SR calipers only because they match my Colnago master frame LOL
That sounds like a great day out! If you're interested in more tech history, you could watch 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
Thank you for reminding us how Dura-Ace evolved and how significant its innovations to cycling. Well done! I love my 7400, 7800 & 7900 DA on my old bikes.
On of the key things that needs to be mentioned about indexed / integrated shifters is that it made practical the double shifting needed for rear blocks with more than 5 (6) gears -- a revolutionary innovation. Going a step back, the introduction of aviation quality cables is what made the index / integrated shifters possible.
I've ridden each of those generations, including the aero group -- I had an aero crank on a fixed gear bike I built in the 80s. Each one was revolutionary. The current group is amazing.
I have some Dura-Ace downtube levers on my steel road bike - I tried second-hand STI levers but they never quite worked right and eventually I found the downtube levers on eBay. They were about £55 but I thought why not? They're about as simple as it gets and even switch to friction mode if something goes wrong. I'm not usually an ASMR/ obsessive type of guy but the feel of the indexing is just * gorgeous * and justifies the price every time I change gear!
@@gcn extra weight and rotational mass, basically. And the supposed increase in braking efficiency is a bit of a smokescreen - the two systems are both perfectly fine. The real benefit of discs is to unlock wider rim widths, better tyre sizing, proper tubeless and lower tyre pressures. It's a shame some of those benefits can't find their way to rim brake bikes.
Cav's results notwithstanding, the bike is just so damned ugly. Ugly frame and the ugliest Dura-Ace crankset. bring back the previous gen 5 arm spiders
I've been riding Dura Ace since 1985 and still have my Trek 2000 equipped with the SIS group set. Little known feature- you can switch the SIS feature on/off by rotating a dial in the shift lever. Having said that, there is little reason to do so unless there is a severe adjustment issue with the rear derailleur.
Friction mode is well known on early index levers. It was a fail-safe measure just in case indexing might have been thrown off, so that you could safely shift and trim manually in an emergency on the road where indexing performance might have been thrown off.
In defense of Si’s glasses: I live in Las Vegas and the amount of dust and road grit I’ve had to blink out of my eyes has me thinking Si’s on to something with his face windshields. Definitely going to pick up a pair.
I had a friend who had one of those blue Team Myiata's with 6 speed Dura Ace AX7300, along with the Dyno Drive cranks and pedals, in the early 80's. HEY! Don't forget about the Dura Ace 10 Track group, that used a 10mm chain, along with 10mm pitch rings and cogs.
It looks dated now, but DA 9000 will be a modern classic and coveted by collectors. It was the last "elegant" DA groupset. I do hope one day, Shimano releases a special edition polished silver road groupset (similar to what was done with GRX).
Ergonomically, shifting levers placed by the brake levers makes perfect sense. A wonder it didn't come years before. That said, I still enjoy riding my '86 Schwinn Paramount with down-tube friction shifting Campy super record.
: Nah, just forget about Dura Ace 7800 AND Dura Ace 9000 in a video about 50 years of Dura Ace. Great production. Great planing. I can see nothing wrong with that. It's just amazing how much effort is put into videos now :D
When I changed from friction to SIS downtube shifters in the late eighties it transformed my cheap components into a smooth transmission. Which was nice.
l like the 7/11 most here and l own the LANCE bike too exactly like you were riding and its OCTALINK BB hollowtech came after this :) which also was the lightest bikes ever raced at 6.3kg with a downtube shifter for the frront ring and 110og tubulars mavics :)
I loved the looks of the Sante'. I loved the white finish on the rear , and the finely etched logos. But that's as far as it went for me being a working mom and family to care for. I never had the funds to purchase the groupset, but nevertheless had a lot of fun over the years with my bicycles and now cycling on my recumbent trikes. I was able to eventually fund an Ultegra equipped bike, and rode three different versions of it. I still have a 2005 TREK Pilot 2,0 and 1989 Santana Chronos tandem equipped with Ultegra. I love the look and functionality of both versions!
Oh yeah! Santè was a nice groupsets, place somewhere inbetween 600 and Dura Ace...it had a very specific, elegant look with it's white and grey coloured components. I liked it!
And another huge Dura Ace innovation was on the track with Dura Ace 10. 10mmbetween the teeth on the cogs made every thing smaller, lighter and of course more expensive
Thanks for the video. Isn't true Shimano came up with SiS after they took advantage of Suntours patent expiring. How come Suntour is never mentioned on bicycle tech history? They had indexing system for down tube and handle bars.
I had an ax equipped bike. Brakes were woeful the pedals used to break owing to the wacky spindle arrangement. Shimano sold an adapter so regular pedals could be used which from a safety perspective was a good idea.
I was racing on 7800 back in the day. I remember crashing and having to replace my levers with the slightly more affordable ultegra 6700s due to my mom threatening to punch me for spending so much on my bike. Good times 👍
Very nice video. I'm still running DA 7800 on my road bike and it works a treat. I'm not going to lie though, it would be nice to replace it with DA 9100 mechanical/rim brake version.
@@gcnWell, let's see. I haven't gotten a pay raise in quite a while and prices and bills keep going up. So, unless something breaks, sadly, probably not anytime soon.
Back in 1972 (in my early 20s) I had a bike made for me - Reynolds tubing, Suntour shifters, TA rings, Stronglight cranks, all the good stuff available here in Australia at the time. It had friction shifters on the down tube and I quickly learned to shift accurately but looked fondly at later bikes with indexed shifters. I still have that bike, now 50 years old. It's all polished up and lives in my lounge room while I'm out riding a carbon Domane with Ultegra. I sometimes wonder if I could bust out the old bike and fall back into accurate use of the old friction shifters.
I often think the same thing. Whilst Di2 is wonderful and I really enjoy using it, I'm amazed by how versatile the human body is. I grew up in the 70s with Nuovo Record and a bar end shifter and could manage single or multi sprocket shifts with total accuracy, having said that I was only dealing with 5 gears then.
I had a DA 7100 Black groupset back in the day - so the 7900 group could not have been the first offered with black anodizng. Still, this was an entertaining review of Shimano's progress over the years.
Put Dura-Ace 7900 mechanical on my bike as a groupset upgrade from Tiagra and it's been wonderful ever since. Better shifting, better braking and a huge weight reduction. Looked better too.
The 7700 bottom brackets were not great in the wet. Mine started making noises after about a month. A pro mechanic told me a bunch of teams were quietly using Ultegra BBs instead. I did the swap and never had an issue. That was in 1999; I later sold the gruppo to a friend who’s still riding it today.
The old standard was the bottom tips of the levers just touched a straight edge held along the bottom of the drops. The drops would have been nearly parallel with the ground. Somebody has rotated those bars up. The hoods were formerly used for climbing and as an aero position, not default position. (I was a mechanic before and after brifters came out)
Great video. I have a fully refurbished Raleigh Road Ace, which has the Shimano 600 AX groupset on it. It is beautifully engineered & has the same tech as the Dura Ace, It was ahead of its time
STI was a game changer in Crits, but back in the day most people had a bike, and tinkered with it depending on events - I did the National Time Trials on my road bike with Tri-bars - and actually down tube shifters were infinitely better in this instance …
Still have 7700 and 7800 on my three road bikes. Still have a bunch of 7400 in my parts bin, too. I'm stuck in the past. None of my many wheels will take 11 or 12 speed. They are all 8-9-10 speed wheels. I live in a flat area, so i don't need anything more than a 25. 10 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 23. 30 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 21.
I bought Dura-ace 9000 group in 2013. In March of 2017 my left crank arm snapped in half. I was 65 years old when it happened and I do not produce much power. Any pro would produce 3 or 4 times as much. It happened because sweat and water got in and started corroding it and the two halves separated. Luckily, I did not crash. I called Shimano about problem and they did not help at all. I ended up buying a replacement myself. When I no longer trusted that it was still sound, I replaced it with Ultegra 6800 which I just replaced 2 months ago because it was separating also. So cranks manufactured before 2019 are included in the recall. They waited 4 years after they fixed the problem to agree to a recall when they already knew there was a problem. Now, many of the affected cranks have already failed and have been replaced with the evidence being thrown away in the trash. They say they are only aware of 4519 failures. Really? I owned 2 and both failed. That is a 100% failure rate! Shame on Shimano for how they handled this problem.
When I was young (and rather decent back then) I had the first version of Dura-ace STI and it was lovely lovely !!! Not sure the latest black version looks so special - I hate the trend for black components- bring back silver !!!
I feel that dura ace 7800 mechanical was a bench mark should of be featured in the video. It was a group set that was spot on, and everyone wanted to ride it.
Good PR post faux pas! Shimano remains the best despite pushing past the limits at times, though whose limits is perhaps subjective. Vintage parts are the best, I wonder how the modern ones will stand the test of time. Still think they should go back to reversing the springs in the rear derailleur!
Currently building a new bike ,because I want disc brakes and dura ace . My god it’s extremely expensive. So I have been scanning the net at bike shops and online shops to build a groupset. Only 11 speed to save cash . Second hand crank set. I haves saved over 2000 $ so it is doable to own top tear on a budget.
I switched to Sram because I think it’s much smoother. First it started with a Sram chain and then the rest of the components. I was running Dura Ace. The new Dura Ace has gotten better but so has the Sram components.
Nice recap on Dura Ace. My own story from 1984 involved the Index Shifting of the 7400. I had an E.G. Bates custom bicycle made from Reynolds 753 tubing with Campy Super Record specs. When the bike was nearing completion Alan Bates asked me to stop by prior to final finish. While there he asked me to try this new "thing" Shimano had come out with; he'd built a criterium bike for his son and had used the new Dura Ace 7400 index shifting setup. The radical idea of click shifting sold me and the final bike I got was Dura Ace 7400 throughout. When I returned to the USA in 1985 none of the local bike shops had seen the new setup and it was a novelty for a while. I still have that bike, still use it from time to time. The only real change I've made is swap out the strap pedals for Speedplays and I've had to replace the 7400 crank, still a very fine ride. Unique for that time was most of the cables were internally routed, even the rear derailleur cable which snakes through the down tube, under the bottom of the BB and into the right chain stay and on out to the rear derailleur.
Which of these bikes would you choose? 🚲 Let us know in the comments below! 👇
the pinarello, would love to do a test ride on it with on of your presenters!
And here's me returning to road bikes after too many years away and feeling rather happy and impressed with my Trek Domane AL2 with Claris group set... 😂
Cavendish's Venge.
Yates’ Merckx. It’s just beautiful. Fell in love with that when I first started racing but could never afford it. But it was second fiddle, in my teenage fantasy money-no-option stable of bikes. There was the navy blue and orange Domex team Merckx bike (with Campy deltas. Sorry Shimano, but those deltas will forever be the best looking brakes. You couldn’t stop with them but you’d look amazing!! 😁) that was my absolute dream bike. Stunner!
The most modern group set (assuming I could afford it). I've gotten into cycling (mostly touring/trekking) somewhat more seriously maybe 10 years ago, so I didn't really build up much sentiment for the retro stuff. Modern groups are both efficient and good-looking. Still, in GCN standards I would certainly qualify as a beginner, and I'm more than happy with low-end modern groups as well.
Dura Ace is great as long as you can afford it or you are a pro cyclist and someone sponsors it for you. As an average person I will go with the mechanical 105 :)
As an average person, I will go with the Durace di2 :)
As an average person I will take integral di2. As a poor person, I would still take 105 di2 over mechanical even if it meant I had to live on the street and eat canned beans.
As an average average person i will stick to my ol' claris. Cheap, durable, and get the job done
as the saying goes: If you’re paying for Dura-Ace, you don’t need Dura-Ace
Lol whiners. 105 Di2 Endurace from Canyon $2699.
I have first generation Dura Ace components on my 1977 Trek. It was my only bike I rode for 45 years until last year when the crank arm broke and it didn't feel safe any more. Still, 45 years of use isn't too bad.
Just replace the crank, and maybe the bottom bracket, should be as safe as it's been for you for 4 decades.
@@danielhall3895 I did replace the crank arm and previously replaced the bottom bracket. Had previously rebuilt it from scratch with the original components. But everything creaks and rattles and the old brakes (yes new pads) are not very good at stopping me at my current weight. A new bike with hydraulic disc brakes is so so much more confidence inspiring.
45 years is great! You must really know how to look after your bikes 🙌 Do you think the bike is fixable? 👀
You rode this bike for 45 years ! That's the durability of dura-ace
@@gcn It's fixed. I still rode it a few times this summer. Put thousands of miles on it previous couple summers. New bike feels more secure, but old one is still going.
I weigh two Vingegaards, so new disc brakes help a lot.
In 1974 as a High School student working at a bike shop I ordered a complete Durace group set and a Palo Alto Vitus tubing frame set. Still wished I had it today !
My first race bike when I was 15 was Dura Ace EX. It was considered third tier at the time. Everybody ran Campagnolo if they could. Sun Tour Superbe also got a lot of respect, but it cost as much or more than Campagnolo, and repair parts weren't available. 7400 was the game changer. It wasn't just the indexing. The whole groupset was higher quality and built for durability (for real). It didn't hurt that Suntour's derailleur patents had just expired, and Tullio Campagnolo passed away.
Superbe Pro was much more elegant appearing but when SIS showed up, it rang the death knell for Sun Tour. I had Sun Tour and loved it but made the shift to Shimano 600(tricolor) in the early 90s.
I'm pleased that you mention SunTour which was the most innovative of all though tragically badly managed. Their Superbe Pro was the pinnacle of design at the time. Both Shimano and much later, Campagnolo copied their designs. Shimano's SIS was their first game changer though.
I grew up in cycling (and working in bike shops) in the late 70s and early 80s. Suntour & Campy were the standards - Elegant, functional, - and repairable. Suntour competed with all of these innovations, but in a way that could be added to their previous versions - and could be worked on. I raced on Suntour for many years (then switched to Campy) and I was truly sorry to see them go. I still have a bike with Suntour and I have been able to keep it running like a champ.
The decline of the competition between Suntour, Campy, Shimano, etc. has been detrimental to cycling overall - both in price and in innovation.
The patent expiring on Suntour's slant parallelogram RD in 1984, and Shimano's subsequent adoption later that year was the real turning point.
Campagnolo still the brand to beat 🚲
I love Dura Ace. I' m in my 40th season of cycling now and used bikes with 7400, 7700 7800 and 9000 versions. I will never forget the feeling of using SIS for the first time and later on STI...it blew me away! But the best thing about Dura Ace is the perfection of manufactering. Durability and function are and have always been excellent. My current bike has Ultegra DI2, which is fine, but hey, it's not the same. Thank you for the video! I wonder how the next gen of Dura Ace will look like!
I love my Dura-Ace 9100, 11 speed mechanical rim brake set up. I have no doubt it could still win a pro tour stage, and it's a bargain by comparison to electronic.
I run a dura-ace 7800 set on my daily commute. It’s super. 10 speed. And absolutely flawless.
The dura ace 9100 won a lot of world tour pro races in 2022, so there is no reason it couldn't win in 2023 !
Interesting! What is it about that groupset that you love so much? ⚙
@@gcnThe shifting is absolutely fabulous: crisp, very quick and faultless. The pinnacle of mechanical shifting.
@@l.d.t.6327 Sounds like the dream 👌
Thank you shimano for all you’ve dine to the cycling community
Does that include Hollowtech victims?
@@truantray like it or not shimano is the benchmark of good cycling components
No mention of how influential Shimano were for braking performance? Spring assisted levers and dual pivots changed the game.
Suntour with Dia-Compe actually developed sprung levers with light caliper spring brakes earlier, as the response to the spongieness of aero levers, to compensate for the restricted cable path of the brake cable routed along the handle bars.
Greg Lemond was the first American to win a grand tour when he won the Tour de France in 1986.
That is such a well known part of Tour history I can't believe there aren't more comments on this faux pas.
How could they forget Lemond???
Yep. Has to be the most elementary error I've seen on a GCN video.
Didn't they say...On Shimano?
Lemond won on Campagnolo. Si stated the first American to win on Shimano.
Brilliant work Simon (and team). Great skill riding up a hill and presenting. You must be in zone two ;-)
Love Dan, he's like the mentor we all had back in the 70s and 80's at the local club back when I was a Juvenile.
Big shout out to Dan for lending us some of his amazing collection 🙌
Thank You for your input. Personally I'm a Campagnolo guy. I trust their products. I presently now using a Chorus 12 speed mechanical group set with rim brakes. Often I mixed components when I formerly built up my own frames. And I just subscribed!
And ebay also offers very good reproduction Super record brake pads too!
I have been using the red scott mathauser pads on my SR calipers only because they match my Colnago master frame LOL
Best road bikes ever! RIM BRAKE🔥
I love every second of this video. Well done guys and Simon 😊
Awesome! 🙌 Would you like us to dive deeper into any other tech? ⚙
I’m going to the Shimano Museum in Osaka in November I can’t wait.
That sounds like a great day out! If you're interested in more tech history, you could watch 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
@gcn nice shout. That's a very interesting documentary.
You can't miss out 7800! It was (is) superb!
So true! In my opinion the coolest grupo of it's time, also introducing HT II cranks. And very nice 10 speed shifting, better than 7900.
: Dura Ace 9000 has been left out as well.
Thank you for reminding us how Dura-Ace evolved and how significant its innovations to cycling. Well done! I love my 7400, 7800 & 7900 DA on my old bikes.
Dura Ace state of the art
Hearing the royalty free music used on the intro to one of my favorite podcasts in this video confirmed this is the top tier cycling channel to watch
One of my bikes, a Cannondale Caad 8 with DURA-ACE 7800. Still, it shifts flawlessly.
Lovely!
On of the key things that needs to be mentioned about indexed / integrated shifters is that it made practical the double shifting needed for rear blocks with more than 5 (6) gears -- a revolutionary innovation. Going a step back, the introduction of aviation quality cables is what made the index / integrated shifters possible.
what a timing, right before the massive callback
I've ridden each of those generations, including the aero group -- I had an aero crank on a fixed gear bike I built in the 80s. Each one was revolutionary. The current group is amazing.
Was the fixed gear for track or road? 👀 Fixed gear and aero sounds like a killer mix 👀
I am still quite happy with my DA 7800, 52/39 and 11/23 :).
I had a bike with a full shimano 600 AX groupset and it was just stunning!
I still have mine and was using it daily just 2 years ago.
Great video and great subject!! I love this kind of stuff! Keep 'em coming!!
Thanks a lot! For some more tech history, check out 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
That's funny seeing you on the Cavendish bike! Looks like you're on a junior's bike; props to coming out of it without blowing up your knees.
Great show Simon. Now, can we have similar one about Campagnolo Super Record please. After all the derailleur system was developed by Campagnolo.
I have some Dura-Ace downtube levers on my steel road bike - I tried second-hand STI levers but they never quite worked right and eventually I found the downtube levers on eBay. They were about £55 but I thought why not? They're about as simple as it gets and even switch to friction mode if something goes wrong. I'm not usually an ASMR/ obsessive type of guy but the feel of the indexing is just * gorgeous * and justifies the price every time I change gear!
Groupsets reached their absolute peak with Dura-Ace 9100 mechanical (with rim brakes, obv). It doesn't get any better than that. IYKYK!
Rim brakes! Interesting 🤔 What is it about discs that you don't like?
@@gcn extra weight and rotational mass, basically. And the supposed increase in braking efficiency is a bit of a smokescreen - the two systems are both perfectly fine. The real benefit of discs is to unlock wider rim widths, better tyre sizing, proper tubeless and lower tyre pressures. It's a shame some of those benefits can't find their way to rim brake bikes.
Factually incorrect, considering that hydraulic brakes are better, as well as electronic shifting
Disc for dirt, Rim for Road- Always ... 11-Speed was the top of the Hill ...for campy, Shimano and SRAM...
@@thomasschutz3315 Disc for everything, always.
The highlight of this video is Cav's bike. God 2011 was a brilliant year in road cycling and his sprints were epic
Cav's results notwithstanding, the bike is just so damned ugly. Ugly frame and the ugliest Dura-Ace crankset. bring back the previous gen 5 arm spiders
Peak Cav era 😍
I've been riding Dura Ace since 1985 and still have my Trek 2000 equipped with the SIS group set. Little known feature- you can switch the SIS feature on/off by rotating a dial in the shift lever. Having said that, there is little reason to do so unless there is a severe adjustment issue with the rear derailleur.
Friction mode is well known on early index levers. It was a fail-safe measure just in case indexing might have been thrown off, so that you could safely shift and trim manually in an emergency on the road where indexing performance might have been thrown off.
@@danielhall3895 Yes, it's well known to people my age! (60) 😎
What a fascinating video, thank you GCN!
Thanks a lot! For an insight into some more historic tech, why not check out 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
In defense of Si’s glasses: I live in Las Vegas and the amount of dust and road grit I’ve had to blink out of my eyes has me thinking Si’s on to something with his face windshields. Definitely going to pick up a pair.
Hahahaha we don't have much Vegas dust ... although we do have lots of west country muck 👀
I had a friend who had one of those blue Team Myiata's with 6 speed Dura Ace AX7300, along with the Dyno Drive cranks and pedals, in the early 80's.
HEY! Don't forget about the Dura Ace 10 Track group, that used a 10mm chain, along with 10mm pitch rings and cogs.
I have a Dura-Ace 7700 crankset on a Spesh SWorks 2004 Aluminium. The bike is 7.1 kg.
It looks dated now, but DA 9000 will be a modern classic and coveted by collectors. It was the last "elegant" DA groupset. I do hope one day, Shimano releases a special edition polished silver road groupset (similar to what was done with GRX).
What year did 9000 come out?
Great vid. I am awaiting my 10 speed DA 1380 gram c24 wheelset. Cant wait!
The 7400 series had a roller bearing BB with cone bearings to handle the sideways forces. Beautiful!
Definitely the pinarello, looks amazing
I'd go for the 2011 s works, classic bike, amazing rider
It certainly wasn't let down by a lack of talent!
THANKS! FWIW, I love the look of those old classic bikes. Guess I’m just a dinosaur.
Thanks for sharing, great video.
Si is excellent at doing these videos, nicely done. That venge is amazing, i think the last venge vias was peak aero road bike.
Ooof peak aero road bike is a BIG claim! What do you make of this weapon? 👉ua-cam.com/video/xYEAqTke9w4/v-deo.html
Ergonomically, shifting levers placed by the brake levers makes perfect sense. A wonder it didn't come years before. That said, I still enjoy riding my '86 Schwinn Paramount with down-tube friction shifting Campy super record.
: Nah, just forget about Dura Ace 7800 AND Dura Ace 9000 in a video about 50 years of Dura Ace. Great production. Great planing. I can see nothing wrong with that. It's just amazing how much effort is put into videos now :D
I have Dura Ace 10-speed SIS, and love it. Almost 20 years, and no fettling with an Ultegra rear derailleur. Much more positive than STI…
When I changed from friction to SIS downtube shifters in the late eighties it transformed my cheap components into a smooth transmission. Which was nice.
l like the 7/11 most here and l own the LANCE bike too exactly like you were riding and its OCTALINK BB hollowtech came after this :) which also was the lightest bikes ever raced at 6.3kg with a downtube shifter for the frront ring and 110og tubulars mavics :)
Friction shifters…..THAT brings me back!
Can anyone remember Shimano Santé from the 1980s? As a boy i used to lust after that in the Madison catalogue…….carefree days
I loved the looks of the Sante'. I loved the white finish on the rear , and the finely etched logos. But that's as far as it went for me being a working mom and family to care for. I never had the funds to purchase the groupset, but nevertheless had a lot of fun over the years with my bicycles and now cycling on my recumbent trikes. I was able to eventually fund an Ultegra equipped bike, and rode three different versions of it. I still have a 2005 TREK Pilot 2,0 and 1989 Santana Chronos tandem equipped with Ultegra. I love the look and functionality of both versions!
Oh yeah! Santè was a nice groupsets, place somewhere inbetween 600 and Dura Ace...it had a very specific, elegant look with it's white and grey coloured components. I liked it!
Defo would pick Cav's Tarmac, what a weapon. Used to have a Tarmac S Works Venge and have regretted selling since.
And another huge Dura Ace innovation was on the track with Dura Ace 10. 10mmbetween the teeth on the cogs made every thing smaller, lighter and of course more expensive
I'll just say that Shimano Dura-Aced it! 😀
😂
Thanks for the video. Isn't true Shimano came up with SiS after they took advantage of Suntours patent expiring. How come Suntour is never mentioned on bicycle tech history? They had indexing system for down tube and handle bars.
Don't forget they make some absolutely incredible fishing gear, lots of fingers in lots of pies 😀
I had the 7400 with STI shifters on a custom Schwinn Paramount OS. They were a game changer in crit races.
I had an ax equipped bike. Brakes were woeful the pedals used to break owing to the wacky spindle arrangement. Shimano sold an adapter so regular pedals could be used which from a safety perspective was a good idea.
And they said the Italians were MASTER over-engineering freaks! Well, there was the story of Delta brakes...
@5:59 Ollie going to have nightmares about the state of that chain
I was racing on 7800 back in the day. I remember crashing and having to replace my levers with the slightly more affordable ultegra 6700s due to my mom threatening to punch me for spending so much on my bike. Good times 👍
I hope when you moved out you got what you wanted? 😉
@gcn Cycling is his hobby. He can't afford to move out.
Very nice video. I'm still running DA 7800 on my road bike and it works a treat. I'm not going to lie though, it would be nice to replace it with DA 9100 mechanical/rim brake version.
Do you think you'll ever treat yourself to an upgrade?
@@gcnWell, let's see. I haven't gotten a pay raise in quite a while and prices and bills keep going up. So, unless something breaks, sadly, probably not anytime soon.
Atleast Lance had the courage to admit his doping, still waiting for Wiggins, Froome, Indurain, Eddy, Contador, Vinegard, Kuss. The list goes on
That 7-Eleven bike is sweet.
Back in 1972 (in my early 20s) I had a bike made for me - Reynolds tubing, Suntour shifters, TA rings, Stronglight cranks, all the good stuff available here in Australia at the time. It had friction shifters on the down tube and I quickly learned to shift accurately but looked fondly at later bikes with indexed shifters. I still have that bike, now 50 years old. It's all polished up and lives in my lounge room while I'm out riding a carbon Domane with Ultegra. I sometimes wonder if I could bust out the old bike and fall back into accurate use of the old friction shifters.
I often think the same thing. Whilst Di2 is wonderful and I really enjoy using it, I'm amazed by how versatile the human body is. I grew up in the 70s with Nuovo Record and a bar end shifter and could manage single or multi sprocket shifts with total accuracy, having said that I was only dealing with 5 gears then.
I had a DA 7100 Black groupset back in the day - so the 7900 group could not have been the first offered with black anodizng. Still, this was an entertaining review of Shimano's progress over the years.
Considered gold standard says our sponsor shimano.
Dura ace is nice. My ultegra is nice. Like them both.
Greg LeMond won the Tour De France in 1986.
How these guys let that one slip is beyond me 🙄
Why skip 7800??? Best solely mechanical groupset, and arguably theost beautiful
Put Dura-Ace 7900 mechanical on my bike as a groupset upgrade from Tiagra and it's been wonderful ever since. Better shifting, better braking and a huge weight reduction. Looked better too.
Tiagra to Dura-ace ... That is a great jump to make 🙌
The bike with the Dura Ace AX at the end is gorgeous. I know you can't get to ride one but I'd love to see a video looking at it in detail.
The 7700 bottom brackets were not great in the wet. Mine started making noises after about a month. A pro mechanic told me a bunch of teams were quietly using Ultegra BBs instead. I did the swap and never had an issue. That was in 1999; I later sold the gruppo to a friend who’s still riding it today.
The brake levers on Sean Yates’ bike have definitely been repositioned since his heyday. He liked to ride them loooooow.
The old standard was the bottom tips of the levers just touched a straight edge held along the bottom of the drops. The drops would have been nearly parallel with the ground. Somebody has rotated those bars up. The hoods were formerly used for climbing and as an aero position, not default position. (I was a mechanic before and after brifters came out)
Everyone did.
Great video. I do recall however the early iterations of STI's were pretty bulky, heavy and very different to the standard hoods.
Things have certainly got slimmer 👀
Great video. I have a fully refurbished Raleigh Road Ace, which has the Shimano 600 AX groupset on it. It is beautifully engineered & has the same tech as the Dura Ace, It was ahead of its time
There is just something special about a fully restored classic! 👌 Did you do the restoration yourself?
STI was a game changer in Crits, but back in the day most people had a bike, and tinkered with it depending on events - I did the National Time Trials on my road bike with Tri-bars - and actually down tube shifters were infinitely better in this instance …
Brilliant!
Fantastic video. Could make a series of it and do deep dives on Campag, Sram/sachs ect..
9000 series is by far the best looking.
Its a great looking piece of kit!
Every new bike part that comes out is “game changer“ to GCN
The must be the marketing Gods lol lol
recently gone back to friction shifters, has made setup much easyer
Yes. Using friction shifters, especially down tube, is a good skill builder.
My favourite bit of road in the world! I wonder if working on it is a joy of ruins it for these guys?
Lets not forget that Sun Tour invented click shifting.
Dura ace 9000 the best finish ever, separates it from all others.
Chrome finish the best.
Ideally the industry should have both rim and disc brake.
You missed the best one 7800 Dura ace 10 speed is very special.
Still have 7700 and 7800 on my three road bikes. Still have a bunch of 7400 in my parts bin, too. I'm stuck in the past. None of my many wheels will take 11 or 12 speed. They are all 8-9-10 speed wheels. I live in a flat area, so i don't need anything more than a 25. 10 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 23. 30 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 21.
I bought Dura-ace 9000 group in 2013. In March of 2017 my left crank arm snapped in half. I was 65 years old when it happened and I do not produce much power. Any pro would produce 3 or 4 times as much. It happened because sweat and water got in and started corroding it and the two halves separated. Luckily, I did not crash. I called Shimano about problem and they did not help at all. I ended up buying a replacement myself. When I no longer trusted that it was still sound, I replaced it with Ultegra 6800 which I just replaced 2 months ago because it was separating also. So cranks manufactured before 2019 are included in the recall. They waited 4 years after they fixed the problem to agree to a recall when they already knew there was a problem. Now, many of the affected cranks have already failed and have been replaced with the evidence being thrown away in the trash. They say they are only aware of 4519 failures. Really? I owned 2 and both failed. That is a 100% failure rate! Shame on Shimano for how they handled this problem.
They recalled it now...12years later ... it's a shame... ShimaNO 😁 74xx and 7700 were simply beautiful but cable routing on the bar was Not nice ...
I love ShiManon
When I was young (and rather decent back then) I had the first version of Dura-ace STI and it was lovely lovely !!! Not sure the latest black version looks so special - I hate the trend for black components- bring back silver !!!
I have a set of small flange Dura Ace hubs and a seat pin from the 1970s. They're black and I still use them today.
Awesome! They made some good stuff back in the day!
@@gcn The seat pin is on my old Harry Quinn frame which was made for me in 1973. The hubs are on my 1983 Colnago.
I feel that dura ace 7800 mechanical was a bench mark should of be featured in the video. It was a group set that was spot on, and everyone wanted to ride it.
Dura Ace 9000 was left out as well.
Good PR post faux pas! Shimano remains the best despite pushing past the limits at times, though whose limits is perhaps subjective. Vintage parts are the best, I wonder how the modern ones will stand the test of time. Still think they should go back to reversing the springs in the rear derailleur!
No mention of the broken crank arms?
Currently building a new bike ,because I want disc brakes and dura ace . My god it’s extremely expensive. So I have been scanning the net at bike shops and online shops to build a groupset. Only 11 speed to save cash . Second hand crank set. I haves saved over 2000 $ so it is doable to own top tear on a budget.
0:44
Missed the 9000 series which has the best looking crankset
I switched to Sram because I think it’s much smoother. First it started with a Sram chain and then the rest of the components. I was running Dura Ace.
The new Dura Ace has gotten better but so has the Sram components.
Nice recap on Dura Ace. My own story from 1984 involved the Index Shifting of the 7400. I had an E.G. Bates custom bicycle made from Reynolds 753 tubing with Campy Super Record specs. When the bike was nearing completion Alan Bates asked me to stop by prior to final finish. While there he asked me to try this new "thing" Shimano had come out with; he'd built a criterium bike for his son and had used the new Dura Ace 7400 index shifting setup. The radical idea of click shifting sold me and the final bike I got was Dura Ace 7400 throughout. When I returned to the USA in 1985 none of the local bike shops had seen the new setup and it was a novelty for a while. I still have that bike, still use it from time to time. The only real change I've made is swap out the strap pedals for Speedplays and I've had to replace the 7400 crank, still a very fine ride. Unique for that time was most of the cables were internally routed, even the rear derailleur cable which snakes through the down tube, under the bottom of the BB and into the right chain stay and on out to the rear derailleur.
Nice video! Next up, do one for all the iterations of the Dogma!
Nice idea! In the meantime, you may like our Pinarello documentary we made on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/pinarellostory
Love the Wayne’s World reference, Si.