And here's me returning to road bikes after too many years away and feeling rather happy and impressed with my Trek Domane AL2 with Claris group set... 😂
Yates’ Merckx. It’s just beautiful. Fell in love with that when I first started racing but could never afford it. But it was second fiddle, in my teenage fantasy money-no-option stable of bikes. There was the navy blue and orange Domex team Merckx bike (with Campy deltas. Sorry Shimano, but those deltas will forever be the best looking brakes. You couldn’t stop with them but you’d look amazing!! 😁) that was my absolute dream bike. Stunner!
The most modern group set (assuming I could afford it). I've gotten into cycling (mostly touring/trekking) somewhat more seriously maybe 10 years ago, so I didn't really build up much sentiment for the retro stuff. Modern groups are both efficient and good-looking. Still, in GCN standards I would certainly qualify as a beginner, and I'm more than happy with low-end modern groups as well.
Dura Ace is great as long as you can afford it or you are a pro cyclist and someone sponsors it for you. As an average person I will go with the mechanical 105 :)
As an average person I will take integral di2. As a poor person, I would still take 105 di2 over mechanical even if it meant I had to live on the street and eat canned beans.
I have first generation Dura Ace components on my 1977 Trek. It was my only bike I rode for 45 years until last year when the crank arm broke and it didn't feel safe any more. Still, 45 years of use isn't too bad.
@@danielhall3895 I did replace the crank arm and previously replaced the bottom bracket. Had previously rebuilt it from scratch with the original components. But everything creaks and rattles and the old brakes (yes new pads) are not very good at stopping me at my current weight. A new bike with hydraulic disc brakes is so so much more confidence inspiring.
@@gcn It's fixed. I still rode it a few times this summer. Put thousands of miles on it previous couple summers. New bike feels more secure, but old one is still going. I weigh two Vingegaards, so new disc brakes help a lot.
My first race bike when I was 15 was Dura Ace EX. It was considered third tier at the time. Everybody ran Campagnolo if they could. Sun Tour Superbe also got a lot of respect, but it cost as much or more than Campagnolo, and repair parts weren't available. 7400 was the game changer. It wasn't just the indexing. The whole groupset was higher quality and built for durability (for real). It didn't hurt that Suntour's derailleur patents had just expired, and Tullio Campagnolo passed away.
Superbe Pro was much more elegant appearing but when SIS showed up, it rang the death knell for Sun Tour. I had Sun Tour and loved it but made the shift to Shimano 600(tricolor) in the early 90s.
I'm pleased that you mention SunTour which was the most innovative of all though tragically badly managed. Their Superbe Pro was the pinnacle of design at the time. Both Shimano and much later, Campagnolo copied their designs. Shimano's SIS was their first game changer though.
I grew up in cycling (and working in bike shops) in the late 70s and early 80s. Suntour & Campy were the standards - Elegant, functional, - and repairable. Suntour competed with all of these innovations, but in a way that could be added to their previous versions - and could be worked on. I raced on Suntour for many years (then switched to Campy) and I was truly sorry to see them go. I still have a bike with Suntour and I have been able to keep it running like a champ. The decline of the competition between Suntour, Campy, Shimano, etc. has been detrimental to cycling overall - both in price and in innovation.
In 1974 as a High School student working at a bike shop I ordered a complete Durace group set and a Palo Alto Vitus tubing frame set. Still wished I had it today !
4 дні тому
On of the key things that needs to be mentioned about indexed / integrated shifters is that it made practical the double shifting needed for rear blocks with more than 5 (6) gears -- a revolutionary innovation. Going a step back, the introduction of aviation quality cables is what made the index / integrated shifters possible.
I love my Dura-Ace 9100, 11 speed mechanical rim brake set up. I have no doubt it could still win a pro tour stage, and it's a bargain by comparison to electronic.
Suntour with Dia-Compe actually developed sprung levers with light caliper spring brakes earlier, as the response to the spongieness of aero levers, to compensate for the restricted cable path of the brake cable routed along the handle bars.
I love Dura Ace. I' m in my 40th season of cycling now and used bikes with 7400, 7700 7800 and 9000 versions. I will never forget the feeling of using SIS for the first time and later on STI...it blew me away! But the best thing about Dura Ace is the perfection of manufactering. Durability and function are and have always been excellent. My current bike has Ultegra DI2, which is fine, but hey, it's not the same. Thank you for the video! I wonder how the next gen of Dura Ace will look like!
That sounds like a great day out! If you're interested in more tech history, you could watch 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
I loved the looks of the Sante'. I loved the white finish on the rear , and the finely etched logos. But that's as far as it went for me being a working mom and family to care for. I never had the funds to purchase the groupset, but nevertheless had a lot of fun over the years with my bicycles and now cycling on my recumbent trikes. I was able to eventually fund an Ultegra equipped bike, and rode three different versions of it. I still have a 2005 TREK Pilot 2,0 and 1989 Santana Chronos tandem equipped with Ultegra. I love the look and functionality of both versions!
Oh yeah! Santè was a nice groupsets, place somewhere inbetween 600 and Dura Ace...it had a very specific, elegant look with it's white and grey coloured components. I liked it!
Thank you for reminding us how Dura-Ace evolved and how significant its innovations to cycling. Well done! I love my 7400, 7800 & 7900 DA on my old bikes.
Thank You for your input. Personally I'm a Campagnolo guy. I trust their products. I presently now using a Chorus 12 speed mechanical group set with rim brakes. Often I mixed components when I formerly built up my own frames. And I just subscribed!
And ebay also offers very good reproduction Super record brake pads too! I have been using the red scott mathauser pads on my SR calipers only because they match my Colnago master frame LOL
: Nah, just forget about Dura Ace 7800 AND Dura Ace 9000 in a video about 50 years of Dura Ace. Great production. Great planing. I can see nothing wrong with that. It's just amazing how much effort is put into videos now :D
It looks dated now, but DA 9000 will be a modern classic and coveted by collectors. It was the last "elegant" DA groupset. I do hope one day, Shimano releases a special edition polished silver road groupset (similar to what was done with GRX).
@@gcn extra weight and rotational mass, basically. And the supposed increase in braking efficiency is a bit of a smokescreen - the two systems are both perfectly fine. The real benefit of discs is to unlock wider rim widths, better tyre sizing, proper tubeless and lower tyre pressures. It's a shame some of those benefits can't find their way to rim brake bikes.
Cav's results notwithstanding, the bike is just so damned ugly. Ugly frame and the ugliest Dura-Ace crankset. bring back the previous gen 5 arm spiders
In defense of Si’s glasses: I live in Las Vegas and the amount of dust and road grit I’ve had to blink out of my eyes has me thinking Si’s on to something with his face windshields. Definitely going to pick up a pair.
I've ridden each of those generations, including the aero group -- I had an aero crank on a fixed gear bike I built in the 80s. Each one was revolutionary. The current group is amazing.
I've been riding Dura Ace since 1985 and still have my Trek 2000 equipped with the SIS group set. Little known feature- you can switch the SIS feature on/off by rotating a dial in the shift lever. Having said that, there is little reason to do so unless there is a severe adjustment issue with the rear derailleur.
Friction mode is well known on early index levers. It was a fail-safe measure just in case indexing might have been thrown off, so that you could safely shift and trim manually in an emergency on the road where indexing performance might have been thrown off.
I have some Dura-Ace downtube levers on my steel road bike - I tried second-hand STI levers but they never quite worked right and eventually I found the downtube levers on eBay. They were about £55 but I thought why not? They're about as simple as it gets and even switch to friction mode if something goes wrong. I'm not usually an ASMR/ obsessive type of guy but the feel of the indexing is just * gorgeous * and justifies the price every time I change gear!
Ergonomically, shifting levers placed by the brake levers makes perfect sense. A wonder it didn't come years before. That said, I still enjoy riding my '86 Schwinn Paramount with down-tube friction shifting Campy super record.
I was racing on 7800 back in the day. I remember crashing and having to replace my levers with the slightly more affordable ultegra 6700s due to my mom threatening to punch me for spending so much on my bike. Good times 👍
I had a friend who had one of those blue Team Myiata's with 6 speed Dura Ace AX7300, along with the Dyno Drive cranks and pedals, in the early 80's. HEY! Don't forget about the Dura Ace 10 Track group, that used a 10mm chain, along with 10mm pitch rings and cogs.
I had an ax equipped bike. Brakes were woeful the pedals used to break owing to the wacky spindle arrangement. Shimano sold an adapter so regular pedals could be used which from a safety perspective was a good idea.
I feel that dura ace 7800 mechanical was a bench mark should of be featured in the video. It was a group set that was spot on, and everyone wanted to ride it.
The 7700 bottom brackets were not great in the wet. Mine started making noises after about a month. A pro mechanic told me a bunch of teams were quietly using Ultegra BBs instead. I did the swap and never had an issue. That was in 1999; I later sold the gruppo to a friend who’s still riding it today.
When I changed from friction to SIS downtube shifters in the late eighties it transformed my cheap components into a smooth transmission. Which was nice.
l like the 7/11 most here and l own the LANCE bike too exactly like you were riding and its OCTALINK BB hollowtech came after this :) which also was the lightest bikes ever raced at 6.3kg with a downtube shifter for the frront ring and 110og tubulars mavics :)
Thanks for the video. Isn't true Shimano came up with SiS after they took advantage of Suntours patent expiring. How come Suntour is never mentioned on bicycle tech history? They had indexing system for down tube and handle bars.
Currently building a new bike ,because I want disc brakes and dura ace . My god it’s extremely expensive. So I have been scanning the net at bike shops and online shops to build a groupset. Only 11 speed to save cash . Second hand crank set. I haves saved over 2000 $ so it is doable to own top tear on a budget.
Put Dura-Ace 7900 mechanical on my bike as a groupset upgrade from Tiagra and it's been wonderful ever since. Better shifting, better braking and a huge weight reduction. Looked better too.
Very nice video. I'm still running DA 7800 on my road bike and it works a treat. I'm not going to lie though, it would be nice to replace it with DA 9100 mechanical/rim brake version.
@@gcnWell, let's see. I haven't gotten a pay raise in quite a while and prices and bills keep going up. So, unless something breaks, sadly, probably not anytime soon.
So I feel it needs to be said. Before dura ace released it's high end groupset under this name, which stood for durable/ace because of the coin of being called a Ace, they released a brake set that was a center pull that was named "dura ace" , they were a medium to low quality brake they sold in the masses to anyone who would buy them. When they decided on the groupset they stole the name and changed the brakes to tourney, which as you know is a level of groupset. 😊 Also the very first dura ace product of the high end release was a rear derailleur called the "Crane" which is a beautiful derailleur. Eddie merckx was kinda against Shimano in the pro peloton and talked a lot of smack about the company, but when people realized the price difference between Shimano and campagnolo, they jumped on Shimano! And this, that is how Shimano became a bicycle kingpin! Lol. Hope that helped educate anyone!
I bought Dura-ace 9000 group in 2013. In March of 2017 my left crank arm snapped in half. I was 65 years old when it happened and I do not produce much power. Any pro would produce 3 or 4 times as much. It happened because sweat and water got in and started corroding it and the two halves separated. Luckily, I did not crash. I called Shimano about problem and they did not help at all. I ended up buying a replacement myself. When I no longer trusted that it was still sound, I replaced it with Ultegra 6800 which I just replaced 2 months ago because it was separating also. So cranks manufactured before 2019 are included in the recall. They waited 4 years after they fixed the problem to agree to a recall when they already knew there was a problem. Now, many of the affected cranks have already failed and have been replaced with the evidence being thrown away in the trash. They say they are only aware of 4519 failures. Really? I owned 2 and both failed. That is a 100% failure rate! Shame on Shimano for how they handled this problem.
And another huge Dura Ace innovation was on the track with Dura Ace 10. 10mmbetween the teeth on the cogs made every thing smaller, lighter and of course more expensive
Good PR post faux pas! Shimano remains the best despite pushing past the limits at times, though whose limits is perhaps subjective. Vintage parts are the best, I wonder how the modern ones will stand the test of time. Still think they should go back to reversing the springs in the rear derailleur!
When I was young (and rather decent back then) I had the first version of Dura-ace STI and it was lovely lovely !!! Not sure the latest black version looks so special - I hate the trend for black components- bring back silver !!!
If you ask me, the continental / trp internal hub would make sense as it can change gear under pressure and remove the need for front derailleur. The planetary system needs refining and is not as efficient as as external gears. With the rise e-bikes and with this system less external mechanics. The development forward will be relentless
"If you include Armstong..." Yes, do include him. The man is a f'kng legend. In those years they ALL where doped. Virenque, Pantani, Ullrich. ALL. You could exclude Armstrong. But then you could exclude all those years of cycling all together.
@@rochellestanley9532 His accomplishments mean NOTHING !! They are not HIS accomplishments -they are the pharmacist's And claiming that others cheated too does nothing to diminish his cheating, lying, or bullying.
Still have 7700 and 7800 on my three road bikes. Still have a bunch of 7400 in my parts bin, too. I'm stuck in the past. None of my many wheels will take 11 or 12 speed. They are all 8-9-10 speed wheels. I live in a flat area, so i don't need anything more than a 25. 10 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 23. 30 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 21.
Great video. I have a fully refurbished Raleigh Road Ace, which has the Shimano 600 AX groupset on it. It is beautifully engineered & has the same tech as the Dura Ace, It was ahead of its time
I had a DA 7100 Black groupset back in the day - so the 7900 group could not have been the first offered with black anodizng. Still, this was an entertaining review of Shimano's progress over the years.
The old standard was the bottom tips of the levers just touched a straight edge held along the bottom of the drops. The drops would have been nearly parallel with the ground. Somebody has rotated those bars up. The hoods were formerly used for climbing and as an aero position, not default position. (I was a mechanic before and after brifters came out)
Back in 1972 (in my early 20s) I had a bike made for me - Reynolds tubing, Suntour shifters, TA rings, Stronglight cranks, all the good stuff available here in Australia at the time. It had friction shifters on the down tube and I quickly learned to shift accurately but looked fondly at later bikes with indexed shifters. I still have that bike, now 50 years old. It's all polished up and lives in my lounge room while I'm out riding a carbon Domane with Ultegra. I sometimes wonder if I could bust out the old bike and fall back into accurate use of the old friction shifters.
I often think the same thing. Whilst Di2 is wonderful and I really enjoy using it, I'm amazed by how versatile the human body is. I grew up in the 70s with Nuovo Record and a bar end shifter and could manage single or multi sprocket shifts with total accuracy, having said that I was only dealing with 5 gears then.
Next innovations: automatic transmission: electronic gears automatically shift to maintain optimal power given terrain, up shift when cadence too high or downshift when cadence too low, sprint button: gears shift for sprint, follow that bike mode: use radar to shift appropriately to keep up with the peloton.
7800 is still the best for my use case. The actual performance benefit of 11+ speeds, electronics, etc. are pretty marginal. But 7800 is beautiful (the pinnacle of polished silver classic groups) and quite light
The big thing here for my taste is the indexed gearing. I HATED as a kid having my gears slip out of position -- it put me off cycling. Had I been even a few years younger I'd have never had to encounter friction shifting. Frankly, I pretty much forgot about cycling for a long time. When I finally sprang for a modern bike in 2001 -- a hardtail mountain bike that I've mostly used as a hybrid -- it was a revelation and it put me back into cycling. The main disappointment today is the ugliness of black finishes, long derailleur cages and overly large rear cassette gears, but it's hard to argue with how well they work.
100 % agreed! In my opinion a really good groupset, looks great in it's silver/black finish. I still use one on one of my bikes, still works flawlessly ( mechanical version). Shifting performance is pefect.
Which of these bikes would you choose? 🚲 Let us know in the comments below! 👇
the pinarello, would love to do a test ride on it with on of your presenters!
And here's me returning to road bikes after too many years away and feeling rather happy and impressed with my Trek Domane AL2 with Claris group set... 😂
Cavendish's Venge.
Yates’ Merckx. It’s just beautiful. Fell in love with that when I first started racing but could never afford it. But it was second fiddle, in my teenage fantasy money-no-option stable of bikes. There was the navy blue and orange Domex team Merckx bike (with Campy deltas. Sorry Shimano, but those deltas will forever be the best looking brakes. You couldn’t stop with them but you’d look amazing!! 😁) that was my absolute dream bike. Stunner!
The most modern group set (assuming I could afford it). I've gotten into cycling (mostly touring/trekking) somewhat more seriously maybe 10 years ago, so I didn't really build up much sentiment for the retro stuff. Modern groups are both efficient and good-looking. Still, in GCN standards I would certainly qualify as a beginner, and I'm more than happy with low-end modern groups as well.
Dura Ace is great as long as you can afford it or you are a pro cyclist and someone sponsors it for you. As an average person I will go with the mechanical 105 :)
As an average person, I will go with the Durace di2 :)
As an average person I will take integral di2. As a poor person, I would still take 105 di2 over mechanical even if it meant I had to live on the street and eat canned beans.
As an average average person i will stick to my ol' claris. Cheap, durable, and get the job done
as the saying goes: If you’re paying for Dura-Ace, you don’t need Dura-Ace
Lol whiners. 105 Di2 Endurace from Canyon $2699.
I have first generation Dura Ace components on my 1977 Trek. It was my only bike I rode for 45 years until last year when the crank arm broke and it didn't feel safe any more. Still, 45 years of use isn't too bad.
Just replace the crank, and maybe the bottom bracket, should be as safe as it's been for you for 4 decades.
@@danielhall3895 I did replace the crank arm and previously replaced the bottom bracket. Had previously rebuilt it from scratch with the original components. But everything creaks and rattles and the old brakes (yes new pads) are not very good at stopping me at my current weight. A new bike with hydraulic disc brakes is so so much more confidence inspiring.
45 years is great! You must really know how to look after your bikes 🙌 Do you think the bike is fixable? 👀
You rode this bike for 45 years ! That's the durability of dura-ace
@@gcn It's fixed. I still rode it a few times this summer. Put thousands of miles on it previous couple summers. New bike feels more secure, but old one is still going.
I weigh two Vingegaards, so new disc brakes help a lot.
Greg Lemond was the first American to win a grand tour when he won the Tour de France in 1986.
That is such a well known part of Tour history I can't believe there aren't more comments on this faux pas.
How could they forget Lemond???
Yep. Has to be the most elementary error I've seen on a GCN video.
Didn't they say...On Shimano?
Lemond won on Campagnolo. Si stated the first American to win on Shimano.
My first race bike when I was 15 was Dura Ace EX. It was considered third tier at the time. Everybody ran Campagnolo if they could. Sun Tour Superbe also got a lot of respect, but it cost as much or more than Campagnolo, and repair parts weren't available. 7400 was the game changer. It wasn't just the indexing. The whole groupset was higher quality and built for durability (for real). It didn't hurt that Suntour's derailleur patents had just expired, and Tullio Campagnolo passed away.
Superbe Pro was much more elegant appearing but when SIS showed up, it rang the death knell for Sun Tour. I had Sun Tour and loved it but made the shift to Shimano 600(tricolor) in the early 90s.
I'm pleased that you mention SunTour which was the most innovative of all though tragically badly managed. Their Superbe Pro was the pinnacle of design at the time. Both Shimano and much later, Campagnolo copied their designs. Shimano's SIS was their first game changer though.
I grew up in cycling (and working in bike shops) in the late 70s and early 80s. Suntour & Campy were the standards - Elegant, functional, - and repairable. Suntour competed with all of these innovations, but in a way that could be added to their previous versions - and could be worked on. I raced on Suntour for many years (then switched to Campy) and I was truly sorry to see them go. I still have a bike with Suntour and I have been able to keep it running like a champ.
The decline of the competition between Suntour, Campy, Shimano, etc. has been detrimental to cycling overall - both in price and in innovation.
The patent expiring on Suntour's slant parallelogram RD in 1984, and Shimano's subsequent adoption later that year was the real turning point.
Campagnolo still the brand to beat 🚲
In 1974 as a High School student working at a bike shop I ordered a complete Durace group set and a Palo Alto Vitus tubing frame set. Still wished I had it today !
On of the key things that needs to be mentioned about indexed / integrated shifters is that it made practical the double shifting needed for rear blocks with more than 5 (6) gears -- a revolutionary innovation. Going a step back, the introduction of aviation quality cables is what made the index / integrated shifters possible.
I love my Dura-Ace 9100, 11 speed mechanical rim brake set up. I have no doubt it could still win a pro tour stage, and it's a bargain by comparison to electronic.
I run a dura-ace 7800 set on my daily commute. It’s super. 10 speed. And absolutely flawless.
The dura ace 9100 won a lot of world tour pro races in 2022, so there is no reason it couldn't win in 2023 !
Interesting! What is it about that groupset that you love so much? ⚙
@@gcnThe shifting is absolutely fabulous: crisp, very quick and faultless. The pinnacle of mechanical shifting.
@@l.d.t.6327 Sounds like the dream 👌
Thank you shimano for all you’ve dine to the cycling community
Does that include Hollowtech victims?
@@truantray like it or not shimano is the benchmark of good cycling components
No mention of how influential Shimano were for braking performance? Spring assisted levers and dual pivots changed the game.
Suntour with Dia-Compe actually developed sprung levers with light caliper spring brakes earlier, as the response to the spongieness of aero levers, to compensate for the restricted cable path of the brake cable routed along the handle bars.
I love Dura Ace. I' m in my 40th season of cycling now and used bikes with 7400, 7700 7800 and 9000 versions. I will never forget the feeling of using SIS for the first time and later on STI...it blew me away! But the best thing about Dura Ace is the perfection of manufactering. Durability and function are and have always been excellent. My current bike has Ultegra DI2, which is fine, but hey, it's not the same. Thank you for the video! I wonder how the next gen of Dura Ace will look like!
I’m going to the Shimano Museum in Osaka in November I can’t wait.
That sounds like a great day out! If you're interested in more tech history, you could watch 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
@gcn nice shout. That's a very interesting documentary.
Best road bikes ever! RIM BRAKE🔥
You can't miss out 7800! It was (is) superb!
So true! In my opinion the coolest grupo of it's time, also introducing HT II cranks. And very nice 10 speed shifting, better than 7900.
: Dura Ace 9000 has been left out as well.
I am still quite happy with my DA 7800, 52/39 and 11/23 :).
Love Dan, he's like the mentor we all had back in the 70s and 80's at the local club back when I was a Juvenile.
Big shout out to Dan for lending us some of his amazing collection 🙌
I have a Dura-Ace 7700 crankset on a Spesh SWorks 2004 Aluminium. The bike is 7.1 kg.
what a timing, right before the massive callback
Can anyone remember Shimano Santé from the 1980s? As a boy i used to lust after that in the Madison catalogue…….carefree days
I loved the looks of the Sante'. I loved the white finish on the rear , and the finely etched logos. But that's as far as it went for me being a working mom and family to care for. I never had the funds to purchase the groupset, but nevertheless had a lot of fun over the years with my bicycles and now cycling on my recumbent trikes. I was able to eventually fund an Ultegra equipped bike, and rode three different versions of it. I still have a 2005 TREK Pilot 2,0 and 1989 Santana Chronos tandem equipped with Ultegra. I love the look and functionality of both versions!
Oh yeah! Santè was a nice groupsets, place somewhere inbetween 600 and Dura Ace...it had a very specific, elegant look with it's white and grey coloured components. I liked it!
Thank you for reminding us how Dura-Ace evolved and how significant its innovations to cycling. Well done! I love my 7400, 7800 & 7900 DA on my old bikes.
Thank You for your input. Personally I'm a Campagnolo guy. I trust their products. I presently now using a Chorus 12 speed mechanical group set with rim brakes. Often I mixed components when I formerly built up my own frames. And I just subscribed!
And ebay also offers very good reproduction Super record brake pads too!
I have been using the red scott mathauser pads on my SR calipers only because they match my Colnago master frame LOL
: Nah, just forget about Dura Ace 7800 AND Dura Ace 9000 in a video about 50 years of Dura Ace. Great production. Great planing. I can see nothing wrong with that. It's just amazing how much effort is put into videos now :D
Great vid. I am awaiting my 10 speed DA 1380 gram c24 wheelset. Cant wait!
It looks dated now, but DA 9000 will be a modern classic and coveted by collectors. It was the last "elegant" DA groupset. I do hope one day, Shimano releases a special edition polished silver road groupset (similar to what was done with GRX).
What year did 9000 come out?
Groupsets reached their absolute peak with Dura-Ace 9100 mechanical (with rim brakes, obv). It doesn't get any better than that. IYKYK!
Rim brakes! Interesting 🤔 What is it about discs that you don't like?
@@gcn extra weight and rotational mass, basically. And the supposed increase in braking efficiency is a bit of a smokescreen - the two systems are both perfectly fine. The real benefit of discs is to unlock wider rim widths, better tyre sizing, proper tubeless and lower tyre pressures. It's a shame some of those benefits can't find their way to rim brake bikes.
Factually incorrect, considering that hydraulic brakes are better, as well as electronic shifting
Disc for dirt, Rim for Road- Always ... 11-Speed was the top of the Hill ...for campy, Shimano and SRAM...
@@thomasschutz3315 Disc for everything, always.
One of my bikes, a Cannondale Caad 8 with DURA-ACE 7800. Still, it shifts flawlessly.
Lovely!
I love every second of this video. Well done guys and Simon 😊
Awesome! 🙌 Would you like us to dive deeper into any other tech? ⚙
Brilliant work Simon (and team). Great skill riding up a hill and presenting. You must be in zone two ;-)
Why skip 7800??? Best solely mechanical groupset, and arguably theost beautiful
Dura Ace state of the art
I had a bike with a full shimano 600 AX groupset and it was just stunning!
I still have mine and was using it daily just 2 years ago.
The highlight of this video is Cav's bike. God 2011 was a brilliant year in road cycling and his sprints were epic
Cav's results notwithstanding, the bike is just so damned ugly. Ugly frame and the ugliest Dura-Ace crankset. bring back the previous gen 5 arm spiders
Peak Cav era 😍
Great show Simon. Now, can we have similar one about Campagnolo Super Record please. After all the derailleur system was developed by Campagnolo.
In defense of Si’s glasses: I live in Las Vegas and the amount of dust and road grit I’ve had to blink out of my eyes has me thinking Si’s on to something with his face windshields. Definitely going to pick up a pair.
Hahahaha we don't have much Vegas dust ... although we do have lots of west country muck 👀
I've ridden each of those generations, including the aero group -- I had an aero crank on a fixed gear bike I built in the 80s. Each one was revolutionary. The current group is amazing.
Was the fixed gear for track or road? 👀 Fixed gear and aero sounds like a killer mix 👀
I've been riding Dura Ace since 1985 and still have my Trek 2000 equipped with the SIS group set. Little known feature- you can switch the SIS feature on/off by rotating a dial in the shift lever. Having said that, there is little reason to do so unless there is a severe adjustment issue with the rear derailleur.
Friction mode is well known on early index levers. It was a fail-safe measure just in case indexing might have been thrown off, so that you could safely shift and trim manually in an emergency on the road where indexing performance might have been thrown off.
@@danielhall3895 Yes, it's well known to people my age! (60) 😎
Hearing the royalty free music used on the intro to one of my favorite podcasts in this video confirmed this is the top tier cycling channel to watch
Dura ace is nice. My ultegra is nice. Like them both.
That's funny seeing you on the Cavendish bike! Looks like you're on a junior's bike; props to coming out of it without blowing up your knees.
I have some Dura-Ace downtube levers on my steel road bike - I tried second-hand STI levers but they never quite worked right and eventually I found the downtube levers on eBay. They were about £55 but I thought why not? They're about as simple as it gets and even switch to friction mode if something goes wrong. I'm not usually an ASMR/ obsessive type of guy but the feel of the indexing is just * gorgeous * and justifies the price every time I change gear!
Ergonomically, shifting levers placed by the brake levers makes perfect sense. A wonder it didn't come years before. That said, I still enjoy riding my '86 Schwinn Paramount with down-tube friction shifting Campy super record.
I was racing on 7800 back in the day. I remember crashing and having to replace my levers with the slightly more affordable ultegra 6700s due to my mom threatening to punch me for spending so much on my bike. Good times 👍
I hope when you moved out you got what you wanted? 😉
@gcn Cycling is his hobby. He can't afford to move out.
Considered gold standard says our sponsor shimano.
I'll just say that Shimano Dura-Aced it! 😀
😂
Lets not forget that Sun Tour invented click shifting.
Atleast Lance had the courage to admit his doping, still waiting for Wiggins, Froome, Indurain, Eddy, Contador, Vinegard, Kuss. The list goes on
I had a friend who had one of those blue Team Myiata's with 6 speed Dura Ace AX7300, along with the Dyno Drive cranks and pedals, in the early 80's.
HEY! Don't forget about the Dura Ace 10 Track group, that used a 10mm chain, along with 10mm pitch rings and cogs.
I had an ax equipped bike. Brakes were woeful the pedals used to break owing to the wacky spindle arrangement. Shimano sold an adapter so regular pedals could be used which from a safety perspective was a good idea.
And they said the Italians were MASTER over-engineering freaks! Well, there was the story of Delta brakes...
I feel that dura ace 7800 mechanical was a bench mark should of be featured in the video. It was a group set that was spot on, and everyone wanted to ride it.
Dura Ace 9000 was left out as well.
What a fascinating video, thank you GCN!
Thanks a lot! For an insight into some more historic tech, why not check out 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
Great video and great subject!! I love this kind of stuff! Keep 'em coming!!
Thanks a lot! For some more tech history, check out 'The decade that changed cycling forever' on GCN+ 👉 gcn.eu/TDTCCF
The 7700 bottom brackets were not great in the wet. Mine started making noises after about a month. A pro mechanic told me a bunch of teams were quietly using Ultegra BBs instead. I did the swap and never had an issue. That was in 1999; I later sold the gruppo to a friend who’s still riding it today.
I'd go for the 2011 s works, classic bike, amazing rider
It certainly wasn't let down by a lack of talent!
The 7400 series had a roller bearing BB with cone bearings to handle the sideways forces. Beautiful!
9000 series is by far the best looking.
Its a great looking piece of kit!
When I changed from friction to SIS downtube shifters in the late eighties it transformed my cheap components into a smooth transmission. Which was nice.
I have Dura Ace 10-speed SIS, and love it. Almost 20 years, and no fettling with an Ultegra rear derailleur. Much more positive than STI…
l like the 7/11 most here and l own the LANCE bike too exactly like you were riding and its OCTALINK BB hollowtech came after this :) which also was the lightest bikes ever raced at 6.3kg with a downtube shifter for the frront ring and 110og tubulars mavics :)
Definitely the pinarello, looks amazing
Don't forget they make some absolutely incredible fishing gear, lots of fingers in lots of pies 😀
THANKS! FWIW, I love the look of those old classic bikes. Guess I’m just a dinosaur.
Absolutely we include the GOAT Lance Armstrong
I agree, everyone was doping, he was the winner who got caught.
Thanks for the video. Isn't true Shimano came up with SiS after they took advantage of Suntours patent expiring. How come Suntour is never mentioned on bicycle tech history? They had indexing system for down tube and handle bars.
Currently building a new bike ,because I want disc brakes and dura ace . My god it’s extremely expensive. So I have been scanning the net at bike shops and online shops to build a groupset. Only 11 speed to save cash . Second hand crank set. I haves saved over 2000 $ so it is doable to own top tear on a budget.
Si is excellent at doing these videos, nicely done. That venge is amazing, i think the last venge vias was peak aero road bike.
Ooof peak aero road bike is a BIG claim! What do you make of this weapon? 👉ua-cam.com/video/xYEAqTke9w4/v-deo.html
I love ShiManon
The bike with the Dura Ace AX at the end is gorgeous. I know you can't get to ride one but I'd love to see a video looking at it in detail.
Put Dura-Ace 7900 mechanical on my bike as a groupset upgrade from Tiagra and it's been wonderful ever since. Better shifting, better braking and a huge weight reduction. Looked better too.
Tiagra to Dura-ace ... That is a great jump to make 🙌
Very nice video. I'm still running DA 7800 on my road bike and it works a treat. I'm not going to lie though, it would be nice to replace it with DA 9100 mechanical/rim brake version.
Do you think you'll ever treat yourself to an upgrade?
@@gcnWell, let's see. I haven't gotten a pay raise in quite a while and prices and bills keep going up. So, unless something breaks, sadly, probably not anytime soon.
Friction shifters…..THAT brings me back!
So I feel it needs to be said. Before dura ace released it's high end groupset under this name, which stood for durable/ace because of the coin of being called a Ace, they released a brake set that was a center pull that was named "dura ace" , they were a medium to low quality brake they sold in the masses to anyone who would buy them. When they decided on the groupset they stole the name and changed the brakes to tourney, which as you know is a level of groupset. 😊 Also the very first dura ace product of the high end release was a rear derailleur called the "Crane" which is a beautiful derailleur. Eddie merckx was kinda against Shimano in the pro peloton and talked a lot of smack about the company, but when people realized the price difference between Shimano and campagnolo, they jumped on Shimano! And this, that is how Shimano became a bicycle kingpin! Lol. Hope that helped educate anyone!
Defo would pick Cav's Tarmac, what a weapon. Used to have a Tarmac S Works Venge and have regretted selling since.
Dura ace 9000 the best finish ever, separates it from all others.
Chrome finish the best.
Ideally the industry should have both rim and disc brake.
I bought Dura-ace 9000 group in 2013. In March of 2017 my left crank arm snapped in half. I was 65 years old when it happened and I do not produce much power. Any pro would produce 3 or 4 times as much. It happened because sweat and water got in and started corroding it and the two halves separated. Luckily, I did not crash. I called Shimano about problem and they did not help at all. I ended up buying a replacement myself. When I no longer trusted that it was still sound, I replaced it with Ultegra 6800 which I just replaced 2 months ago because it was separating also. So cranks manufactured before 2019 are included in the recall. They waited 4 years after they fixed the problem to agree to a recall when they already knew there was a problem. Now, many of the affected cranks have already failed and have been replaced with the evidence being thrown away in the trash. They say they are only aware of 4519 failures. Really? I owned 2 and both failed. That is a 100% failure rate! Shame on Shimano for how they handled this problem.
They recalled it now...12years later ... it's a shame... ShimaNO 😁 74xx and 7700 were simply beautiful but cable routing on the bar was Not nice ...
And another huge Dura Ace innovation was on the track with Dura Ace 10. 10mmbetween the teeth on the cogs made every thing smaller, lighter and of course more expensive
Good PR post faux pas! Shimano remains the best despite pushing past the limits at times, though whose limits is perhaps subjective. Vintage parts are the best, I wonder how the modern ones will stand the test of time. Still think they should go back to reversing the springs in the rear derailleur!
Greg LeMond won the Tour De France in 1986.
BRING BACK THE SILVER COMPONENTS!!
As a matter of fact, Giro, Tour, and La Vuelta of 2023 are all won by SRAM athletes. That, in my humble opinion, is called "Domination"
When I was young (and rather decent back then) I had the first version of Dura-ace STI and it was lovely lovely !!! Not sure the latest black version looks so special - I hate the trend for black components- bring back silver !!!
If you ask me, the continental / trp internal hub would make sense as it can change gear under pressure and remove the need for front derailleur.
The planetary system needs refining and is not as efficient as as external gears.
With the rise e-bikes and with this system less external mechanics. The development forward will be relentless
No mention of the broken crank arms?
"If you include Armstong..." Yes, do include him. The man is a f'kng legend. In those years they ALL where doped. Virenque, Pantani, Ullrich. ALL. You could exclude Armstrong. But then you could exclude all those years of cycling all together.
World's greatest cheater, liar, bully.
World’s greatest cyclist ever…🇺🇸🥇
@@rochellestanley9532 His accomplishments mean NOTHING !! They are not HIS accomplishments -they are the pharmacist's
And claiming that others cheated too does nothing to diminish his cheating, lying, or bullying.
Still have 7700 and 7800 on my three road bikes. Still have a bunch of 7400 in my parts bin, too. I'm stuck in the past. None of my many wheels will take 11 or 12 speed. They are all 8-9-10 speed wheels. I live in a flat area, so i don't need anything more than a 25. 10 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 23. 30 years ago, I didn't need anything more than a 21.
I had the 7400 with STI shifters on a custom Schwinn Paramount OS. They were a game changer in crit races.
Some could say Shimano STILL haven't quite got a power meter for Dura-Ace...still in development?
Great video. I have a fully refurbished Raleigh Road Ace, which has the Shimano 600 AX groupset on it. It is beautifully engineered & has the same tech as the Dura Ace, It was ahead of its time
There is just something special about a fully restored classic! 👌 Did you do the restoration yourself?
I had a DA 7100 Black groupset back in the day - so the 7900 group could not have been the first offered with black anodizng. Still, this was an entertaining review of Shimano's progress over the years.
The brake levers on Sean Yates’ bike have definitely been repositioned since his heyday. He liked to ride them loooooow.
The old standard was the bottom tips of the levers just touched a straight edge held along the bottom of the drops. The drops would have been nearly parallel with the ground. Somebody has rotated those bars up. The hoods were formerly used for climbing and as an aero position, not default position. (I was a mechanic before and after brifters came out)
Everyone did.
@5:59 Ollie going to have nightmares about the state of that chain
Back in 1972 (in my early 20s) I had a bike made for me - Reynolds tubing, Suntour shifters, TA rings, Stronglight cranks, all the good stuff available here in Australia at the time. It had friction shifters on the down tube and I quickly learned to shift accurately but looked fondly at later bikes with indexed shifters. I still have that bike, now 50 years old. It's all polished up and lives in my lounge room while I'm out riding a carbon Domane with Ultegra. I sometimes wonder if I could bust out the old bike and fall back into accurate use of the old friction shifters.
I often think the same thing. Whilst Di2 is wonderful and I really enjoy using it, I'm amazed by how versatile the human body is. I grew up in the 70s with Nuovo Record and a bar end shifter and could manage single or multi sprocket shifts with total accuracy, having said that I was only dealing with 5 gears then.
Next innovations: automatic transmission: electronic gears automatically shift to maintain optimal power given terrain, up shift when cadence too high or downshift when cadence too low, sprint button: gears shift for sprint, follow that bike mode: use radar to shift appropriately to keep up with the peloton.
Thanks for sharing, great video.
7800 is still the best for my use case. The actual performance benefit of 11+ speeds, electronics, etc. are pretty marginal. But 7800 is beautiful (the pinnacle of polished silver classic groups) and quite light
Fantastic video. Could make a series of it and do deep dives on Campag, Sram/sachs ect..
The big thing here for my taste is the indexed gearing. I HATED as a kid having my gears slip out of position -- it put me off cycling. Had I been even a few years younger I'd have never had to encounter friction shifting. Frankly, I pretty much forgot about cycling for a long time. When I finally sprang for a modern bike in 2001 -- a hardtail mountain bike that I've mostly used as a hybrid -- it was a revelation and it put me back into cycling. The main disappointment today is the ugliness of black finishes, long derailleur cages and overly large rear cassette gears, but it's hard to argue with how well they work.
recently gone back to friction shifters, has made setup much easyer
Yes. Using friction shifters, especially down tube, is a good skill builder.
Every new bike part that comes out is “game changer“ to GCN
The must be the marketing Gods lol lol
I always say myself if u own a tiagra or 105 ur something but a dura ace you made something
Surprised no talk of the Dura Ace 9000, that's one of the most iconic groupset, and still very relevant today. Even lighter than current gen.
100 % agreed! In my opinion a really good groupset, looks great in it's silver/black finish. I still use one on one of my bikes, still works flawlessly ( mechanical version). Shifting performance is pefect.