What Is Gaijin Thinking On This One? | War Thunder Sons of Atilla
Вставка
- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- My Discord: / discord
Download GE For WT to get FREE golden eagles: lks.me/g/SeekerHead
Use my code for 10 extra GE: 6ug1K
0:00 - Intro
0:33 - Ad
1:12 - F-16s compared
3:48 - Air to Ground Upgrades
4:30 Air to Air Upgrades
5:05 - Russian Bias???
6:03 - F-16C v MiG-29SMT
6:32 - How to survive HMD R-73 - Ігри
In short, the F-16C in WT is a 1990s aircraft with 2006 upgrades and 1980s missiles.
1970s missiles* the aim-7m is just an aim-7f.
Just like most of the recent additions tbf. 2000-5F is supposed to have multitarget radar and active missiles, but instead gets AG weapons for some unknown reason, AV-8B Plus is supposed to have APG-65 and AIM-120 but doesn't.
Gaijin is outpacing itself on content vs features and most likely balance too if those active sticks arrive.
The fact that 🐌 refuses to add the AMRAAM (for now) definitely hurts Western jets a lot. Sparrows largely were retired after the Gulf War and the introduction of the AIM-120A.
The AIM-9M is a marginal upgrade over the -9L: mostly it upgrades the electronics to get IRCCM (-9Ms should be more flare resistant than the Ls), but it doesn’t get any improvement in maneuverability. By 2006, though, the -9X was already in service (having been adopted in 2003), which will provide a missile with parity to the R-73s maneuverability.
@@TheSkipjack95bruh it’s the dev server… APG-65 is obviously a placeholder.
Yeap 😔
Those dogfights were longer than 80% of air rb matches though 😂
3rd partying is inevitable in AIR RB if you're trying to dogfight a Mig-29SMT
@@reinyfrost3753 It's inevitable if you try to dogfight any aircraft really.
@@generalpatton8468 yeah, so the one with more reliable missiles over flight performance seems to be easier to play in Air RB. Although, if the F-16 pilot has situational awareness, they might do better (even though it's not guaranteed considering how quickly someone can just get a missile off at far range)
its valuable info for sim players like me
the way r73 just curves around and somehow kills you is unbelievable
basically a poormans Aim-9X
i mean it did exist way before the 9x
I mean the R-73 is a thrust vectoring missile.
@@F-18Super Not really since its a missile that came out in the 1980s while the Aim-9X entered service in 2003.
By That time the R-74s were being produces with more modern upgrades and is on the level of an Aim-9X.
So over all the Russians dominated 1980-1990s missiles before the Aim-9X came out. There is no point in comparing an R-73 to and Aim-9X when the more up to date version is the R-74.
@@dankaloww1067the R-74 is just a name for the russians to claim "oh hey new missile" when it's just an R-73E with a different fuze.
too bad the chances of you having a 1v1 dogfight uninterrupted for 3-4 mins straight is nearly impossible in air rb
Simulator with these new planes is cool af tho
One thing that's good about it is that you'd also be rarely getting fired upon with r73 under 1km from rear (or atleast notice it at that range) since the mig29 are also trying to not die.
@@Fred_the_1996 why not just play dcs at that point though? it has the block 50 and it has a far more realistic flight model with all the modern weaponry.
@@limyarplane1991 Yup. Never understood why people play Sim in WT when they could just get an immensely better experience in DCS.
@@mavor101more money probably, and maybe not everyone wants to spend 12 hours learning how to take off and drop unguided munitions
Would have made more sense to add the F-15A if they wanted to keep the Sparrows and the current sidewinder missiles 😒
Stupid Gaijin developers always make the dumbest decisons possible
I knew the F15 wasn’t coming because it’s the perfect aircraft to introduce AMRAAMs with. It’ll generate more hype being a new jet and have new missiles, rather than old jet with new missiles. That is why I believe they withheld sparrow F15
@@SeekerHeadi wanted to have a chance to play a sparrow f15 before amraams come out. if they release it after amraams there will be no point playing it since it’s gonna be in the same br range as amraams. this update is just really disappointing in general. i feel like there was no point even adding the f16c
@@SeekerHeadwhat about them adding the Gripen which was designed for AIM-120?
@@spicynoodle7419 a thing designed for aim120 is only able to use 4 ? too bad.
@@hemendraravi4787 it's meant to be a light, cheap, jack of all trades jet. The F-35 can only use AMRAAMs (aka can't dogfight for shit) and it can carry 4 or 6 of them. What do you want, 16 missiles on one plane?
Daily reminder for gaijin to add some more modern missiles to other nations too, not just ussr
The biggest positive this update brings is by introducing BR 12.3 it will give 11.0 a massive buff just like 12.0 gave 10.7
Seems like I have to dust off, ol' reliable (F-4E).
@@cahdoge Exactly!
Fr f4e gonna be op
Wait, we get 12.3? That's awesome i finally have more tier 7 grinder plane option now
Maybe my MiG-21bis will be playable now?
As the Growling Sidewinder has said:
"Influence two circle", "Jam his WEZ"
Y'all gotta stop watching him so much, seriously
@@evangalinsky2499 No. Its good content
@@Ghost-kj7kv not really but okay
Overrated at best, used to watch him all the time, can't stand him anymore. He explains tactics well, other than that, meh.
@@evangalinsky2499 Overrated? Who cares. Its an HD video on jet combat. Its all i need
@@evangalinsky2499 L opinion
10:16 Russia players for the last year: "its an AIM-9L equivalent, wdym its OP? AIM-9L is OP"
free GE for warthunder just barely pretends to give you enough to not be a scam
I’m calling it now, where going to see more people play naval after this drops.
Specifically 10,000 more people will play naval a day.
I might actually
Please, I would love to see more people actually playing naval
Honestly not a great time to get into it, considering they are making top tier overall significantly more expensive and harder to get to.
@@sharkk127 Damn right! Naval is the only part of the game that is still fun for me.
Ive never played naval so if i play it even once your prophecy is fullfilled... that's a pretty easy call. Be specific. say..... "10,000 more people a day will play naval" and if it came true that would be an impressive prediction.
Great video Seek perfect commentary/guide on these awesome aircraft makes me want to grind F-16 after the F-14 even more. F-16C should of at least gotten Aim-9M's which is a 1990s missile used in the Gulf War while the R-73 was introduced in the 1980s, but hopefully we'll get them soon enough among others.
*also **6:12** Discord moment.*
AIM-9M 1983... It got upgraded till recently...Gulf war , those were 9M-4/6 ...M-8 was 94...the final version was 9M-10 around 1998 ... then they got 9X.
Aim 9M 1983
The setting with that map and sunset, it's beautiful for dogfight footage!
it is pretty clear that gajin is adding aircrafts that are able to carry ARHs missiles so all nations have something to play once patch with ARHs goes live (probably December patch?)
imo its pretty smart, doesn't really matter now that aircrafts like f16c or harrier 8b+ get gimped loadout if it allows them to focus on actual missile dev work for next 4 months instead of worrying about adding 10+ top tier fighters with new systems at once + ARHs
this exactly. as soon as they added the Ja37D, i knew what was up. they're playing this the long-con way so they have ample time to prepare for these medium range fox 3s- just that some of the aircraft carry some seriously scary ones (looking at the mirage with 6x thrust vectoring MICA BVR missiles) which make me think they might even have a plan to counter the upcoming R-73 spam. that developer on the forums said himself that AIM-9Ms are woefully inferior to R-73s, *even where the IRCCM is concerned.* gaijin is dumb sometimes but it'd genuinely require impressive stupidity to intentionally add such a missile without SOME sort of plan to introduce counterparts. i think come december we're gonna get to see that- probably some pretty big missile additions for all the top tiers, especially the new ones.
Gaijin and the playerbase be eating good this year
@@blessthismessssI think it’s the good way that Gaijin took. It’s better to prepare some aircrafts for every country instead of releasing everything at once
Now imagine the german MiG 29 would get the R73 with better flight performance 🤔
No
@@SeekerHeadwhy not could be 12.3 like the SMT 🤤
Would need to be 12.7
@@SeekerHeadwell the SMT has some ground options with the Kh-29td which has the 9.12 not, general yeah
I have one 😂, I have the F16 too 😅
All im going to say for this, is that they Did have a G-limiter, it wasn't the flight model. Though it didn't help it, it was found that the F16 did a have a G limiter in game.
It doesn’t. I don’t know how many times I have to say it: Go test it yourself. Start a custom game and run the F16a on min fuel. Let it burn down to about 4-5 minutes and then start pulling as hard as you can. You will find you clear 13-14G easily. If there was a G limiter, this would not be possible. Literally just go do it. I don’t know who told you this to make you so certain but they’re wrong, and all you have to do is go play with it.
@@SeekerHead It has literally been datamines, a few times now.
Dev Server Datamine 2.27.51 -> 2.28.0 21 Part 1.
F16(!All), F16AJ - Removed G-Limiter.
And you do realize you can set "Trigger" stages for things like that, right? Example being (If "XYZ" reaches to speeds "123 or Higher, X fuction will activate". You can really see this settle in when you reach 900KpH or higher. You go from pulling more then 9+ Gs to 8/9 at best, but once you go under it the function turns off, hence the better Gs.
Its one to Test Fly the plane, but its another thing when its literally its code.
I do implore you to read Datamines before you makesl these claims.
The “limiter” you’re referring to from the datamines is a 1 second restriction on the pull of the aircraft. After 1 seconds the plane has full pull. If you consider this a “G limiter” then so be it I guess, but it in no way limits the Gs the plane is capable of pulling. It just keeps you from instantaneously snapping your plane apart from a sudden hard pull. But again, it’s only for 1 second. You have a misunderstanding as to what that actually means in the files. It also in no way has anything at all to do with speed.
In the live server currently the F16 pulls 10G maybe 11 if you push it with with some rolling after testing from low speeds around 7-800kph all the way up to mach 1.5 while it can pull 12-13gs in the dev server if it was a problem with the structure of the aircraft you'd think that it wouldn't be a problem in the current live server@@SeekerHead
It’s called a flight model change….
I already knew the importance of pursuit curves (and you and DEFYN taught me that through your vids), but daaaamn, now they're *really* important
i'm gonna call it now, this thing is totally getting 6x AMRAAM this coming christmas update, alongside the Barak II, Tornado F.3, Ja37D, 29SMT and possibly even Mirage 2000-5F all getting their fox 3 loadouts on that update. there were too many perfectly placed stepping stones down this path that came with this update, the most obvious being the overhaul of RWR. once all of that happens, these woes of only 2x AIM-7M will suddenly go away for good lol
i think we may get fox3s after this update like r27er , i feel gaijin is just waiting on player feedbak for the new rwrs.
Agreed. Don’t forget the AV-8B Harrier +
The RWR rework was definitely a necessary change before we head to Fox-3s. It’s simply not practical to have to defend against potentially dozens of Fox-3s, without knowing what type of threats you’re facing. You simply don’t have enough time and enough countermeasures to immediately notch and defend every single radar lock that ever comes your way; it’s important to know when you’re simply being locked, and when you’re actually being fired upon/Fox-3 goes pitbull.
Or we’ll be stuck with the Russian bias like with the pantsir, but I hope you’re right
Western jets having a direct advantage over Soviet jets? Not gonna happen lol
@@collander7766 Laughs in F104.ASA with and "RWR" that only makes a barely audible noise and doesnt tell diddly squat about where the ping comes from
Gaijin should add a 1v1 dogfight mode to the matchmaker.
I really appreciate real life facts being mentioned/compared to what we have in WarThunder. I find it very interesting.
Hello, I'm a new subscriber, first of all, thank you for your videos, they have helped me learn a lot about the F-16, and now I can simulate in my mind when I use the MiG-29 and fight against the F-16. I'm trying to find other solutions to try to win against the F-16 with the MiG-29 in situations like that.
If they can fix the flight model to allow active control of the flaps and leading edge like it's supposed to have, the F16 shouldn't have any issues dogfighting. I also hope when AMRAAMs come to it they add a countdown to when the seeker goes active. They also need to fix the radar so TWS doesn't keep randomly swapping targets. It'll be scary fighting an F16 close range if they add the proper flood mode where you can launch an AMRAAM without a lock or TWS scan, then the missile goes hot immediately. Basically saving you the couple seconds it takes to lock and launch
Phenomenal dogfighting tips. Hopefully everyone gets advice from this, even including MiG-29 players.
Pro tips for visualizing this for F-16 pilots: imagine the tip of a triangle extending from the back of the MiG, about 3-4 times the size of the plane. You want to be aiming your plane at the base of that triangle the entire time. You could take any frame from this video and draw a triangle like this, especially where Seek is describing turning in the other direction the Mig is flying, and you can see the "point" he is chasing. This is where rate-fighting jets like the F-16 excel, and it is no more obvious than the two planes being added next patch.
Edit: 3-4 time the size of the plane seems wrong, most of the time it's where the -contrails- *wingtip vortices are ending for the MiG-29, about 25% of the screen length.
Fly to the high 6
loving these more informative videos!
I am baffled as to why Gaijin didn't ad other aircraft form the era of the F 16A, like the F 15A or an early F 18, which would have similar load-outs to what we have in the game rn... but nope, they are adding an severely limited early 2000s F 16 and Mig 29... why?
Same exterior model, super cheap to push out as a patch. F-15/F-18 and Su-27 require a ton of work, so they are coming later.
F/A-18A would have fit the current meta better, used 7M/MH/Ps and 9L/Ms amd would have been fun to dogfight with.
Thank you for this key information seek…no bull shit…straight to the key factors…very nice
Just want to clarify the R-73 and R-27 where in service by 1984 and developed in the 70s so they are neither a 90s or Modern missile. However the R-73M is modernized.
I'd love to see you fly EE lightning f6/f53, you're the best WT pilot i have ever seen!
basically, every mig29SMT is a boss fight.
this video is exactly why we love seek! bravo! 🙌🙌🙌
love the AC6 soundtrack
if anyone wanted to know the song is called SORTIE 4 - Ace combat 6 ost
It's funny to see people complaining about the missiles, and then saying in other videos it's the pilot that makes the difference
I hope that’s not what you got from mine. The missiles are absolutely ridiculous. I’m just showing that it is possible to defeat the R73 HMD. That is, if it is alone.
@@SeekerHead It is normal that the missile is broken since ussr is the favorite nation of gaijin
The block 15 or ADF is slightly better than the MLU performance wise, but the MLU right now is basically an F16C that can turn better because it enjoys the same radar in-game
MLU has the APG-66 (V3) if I’m not mistaken. That’s just a regular APG-66 with TWS basically. It is *not* the APG-68 from the F-16C
@@collander7766 yes, but they just did an AIM-7m on that thing and ctrl c + ctrl v the radar from the MLU. Even if they buff it in some way, I don't think it will make much of a difference in gameplay, the radar on the MLU is excellent anyway
F15A or F16C with just Sparrows are just trash when facing R27ER. The only thing that is keeping R27 from completely dominating 12.0 is the Phoenix, which basically denied R27ER from high altitude strike which is its ideal environment. But in furball fight R27ER just overwhelms everyone else and thats why Mig29 and Yak141 has higher winrate than US aircrafts.
The AIM-7M is a place holder no doubt until the AIM-120, same with the 9L, and fhe 9M or 9X
The Mig-29 looks like it's staying in the F-16 control zone pretty well. But that rate fight looks pretty good for the F-16 but that R-73 makes it a pretty good problem. So when we gonna get ALE-50 system/ AN/ALQ-131 ECM pod on the F-16's 😋 Most people totally forget to turn off that afterburner when they use countermeasures when the R-73 is launched at them.
Is this getting the Sniper XR or was that the Litening pod?
Smooth transition into the sponsor, lol.
Woah seekerhead terminology arc
i always said that FM of the F-16 was bricked. all you needed to do is look at how differently it performs compared to the DSC equivalent that has been praised as highly accurate by actual pilots.
This is not the first time. The Chinese F-16AMLU is a late 1990s aircraft with early 1980s radar and late 1970s missiles.
F-16C Vs MiG-29SMT summed up: point nose at where he was not where he is, and don't hold down W, be willing to extend your turn
They finally don’t fly like f-104s lol nice
I'll be waiting for the F-16CJ variant with the HTS and ECM pod. May be able to counter radar AAM a lot better. Wouldn't be surprised if it turned into a prem vehicle instead lol
While this guide is fantastic, I can’t see anyone doing this without eating an IR or SARH missile cause of how much they have to focus on the mig29
That’s the main issue here. The Mig29SMT might be a good fight for the F16C, but fighting 3-4 at the same time will be insanely frustrating
Ya there literally keeping the aim 120s for the next patch cause the f15A the gripen and maybe tornado gr4 im just wondering will the tornado gr3 and viggan at 11.7 will get it
Adore the AC ost as BGM
Does the F-16C beat the Mig-29A in a rate fight like you just did with the SMT or does it lose?
Man this just makes me want my Gripen, the Viggen gets out performed by the current F-16 and Mig-29s, if they are buffing the flight model then Sweden will just have nothing to compete with except the Gripen.
>im gonna show you how to survive the mig 29smt
>the mig 29smt has no chance here
Sounds like a bit more than surviving is going on there
Yes, but there’s plenty of ways to throw due to the R73 HMD
adding the F-16C with 9Ls and 7Ms (which I don’t think it even carries IRL, at least not in dcs) seems dumber than adding the premium A-10 and Su-25
6:04 as a mig user, I had more luck going into a flat spin. Rare cases you can send a missile out mid spin.
Just keep flying
Just keep flying 😊
i tested something with the mig 29 u have to use the sim controls in the first 2 turns u can pull 16g+ without ripping an get off a r73 but have to be fast at switching between realistic and sim controls
Cant wait to try out these tactics in a real game aka the air RB furball...
it really wont matter how well you will turn, in an air rb match, the R73 will be unstoppable. I really dont understand why they dont just add the Aim9m and call it a day.
I can't wait untill the day when i see a gripen in a warthunder teaser!!!!!
Is there going to be any br decompression?? Or will they still go aigainst f4's and mig21's?
These 2 planes will go to 12.3
@@SeekerHead so nothing has really changed for 11.0 aircraft?
the f16a's are getting their G limiters removed in the update so they'll turn harder
How do you climb so high and head on without getting insta doinked by a Aim-54c or R27ER? I get doinked even at tree level?
the grind to this plane will get rly bad when you are at 11.3 and get uptierd XO
Do what i did and just club with the 10.3 crusader. Even though the rp multiplier is less you still get more rp on average since the plane performs better.
Or you can do sim bombing with the phantoms
Edit: F5E is also really good since it doesn't see top tier now
Very good video
My ass out here with a Tornado F.3 as my only gen 4 tryna keep up fr
3:29 my brother you are literally flying the Block 10 lol, the ADF has larger elevators.
Sorry if that sounded rude, I know it was a simple mistake. And I agree, the 16C being limited to the current missiles in game is ridiculous lol
Yeah I made an editing oopsie
I can’t wait for Aim-9x, Aim-9m and AMRAMMS. The unfortunate part being that these three missiles (especially the Aim-9x and amramm) are going to be almost undodgeable and unflareable. So with these new updates and jets it’s almost exclusively going to be BVR fighting, which I fine with me as long as copium snail doesn’t ruin everything.
Wanna bet? I can see 120s going after chaff bundles against cold plane already....
@@honzavasicek well we are talking about gayjin here. Considering the lackluster and inconsistent performance of the Sparrows in game I’ll bet money they’ll nerf all the newer western tech.
AMRAAM is going to be plenty dodgeable/chaffable. Think about it; you physically cannot fit as powerful of a radar into the seeker head of a missile than you can into the nose cone of a jet. AIM-120s will be easier to decoy than something like the R-27ER which has a much more powerful radar to guide it. Not to mention, the AIM-120A and B have less than half the range of the R-27ER/AIM-7M, and are more like an active radar AIM-7E-2
@@collander7766 120A/B sits few miles below 7M, far outranging E2. Its not about dish size but about processing of the signal, AKA something USA is and was always king in air to air combat. 120s radar, depending on set target, activates up to approx 10-13nm and can easily track targets sized like TB2 drone. Processing is on another level too, it does have solutions to fully filter out chaff and ignore it, same as a bit more modern radars. They simply ignore stuff with high G deccelearation, they employ range and speed gates + some classified stuff. No you cant spoof fox 3 missiles with chaffs unless you are doing perfect notch and even then, it should be highly unlikely due to amraam being able to switch between hprf/mprf on its own. When its close or closure rate decreases, it switches to MPRF rendering chaff pretty much useless.
@@honzavasicek _120A/B sits few miles below 7M, far outranging E2._
AIM-7E2 has a maximum range under perfect conditions of 27 nmi. Under those same conditions, AIM-120A and B comonly have a stated range of "20+ miles" and under perfect conditions it's somewhere along the lines of 30-35 nmi... so really similar to AIM-7E. That's under best conditions too; when launched from lower altitudes, the difference closes even further to the point that they will feel extremely similar. For reference, the AIM-7F/M and R-27ER are both kinetically rated to make 50+ nmi shots (100+ km). Just like the 7E, the 120A/B have a relatively short burn time, meaning that if you don't launch it at high altitude or if your target maneuvers, the missile will quickly bleed away its energy. Nowhere close to the 7F/M which has a crazy sustainer that just keeps it chugging along forever at low alt. Remember these are *best case scenarios*... how often do you get 50km kills with the AIM-7E? Never. Practical kinetic range is going to be very similar. Less than half the range of ER and 7M at low altitude for sure.
_Its not about dish size but about processing of the signal_
"Signal processing" definitely matters but we already have missiles in the game that are on the same technological level as the AIM-120 (R-27ER came out at the same time). We already have monopulse filtering on all CW missiles which applies a lot of processing to choose the correct radar return. So you can expect R-27ER-level notch and chaff resistance. But since you physically cannot fit as good of a radar into a missile than you can into a plane, the radar lock will likely be easier to spoof.
_it should be highly unlikely due to amraam being able to switch between hprf/mprf on its own. When its close or closure rate decreases, it switches to MPRF rendering chaff pretty much useless._
That's just not true. Switching from HPRF to LPRF isn't some magical be-all end-all for radars. We already have multiple radars in the game that can switch between HPRF and LPRF *while locked and guiding a missile* and it doesn't really change much. MPRF is harder to notch and works rear-aspect, but it's still pretty easy to notch, and usually your missile gets notched before your radar anyways because most of them have relatively high speed gates. The AIM-120's radar certainly won't be more difficult to notch than the high-powered radars we have in-game.
To sum up the update: dont play anything other than mig29 and f16 even if you did before
Very balanced, no bias comrade, don’t look into the SMTs air loadout in game vs this gimped thing 😂
Good news is that f16c at least gets AIM9M this patch, supposedly😂
if i hear "block" ever again i will explode
I was thinking this while recording lmaooo
fr @@SeekerHead
The F-16 had a AoA limiter since the first models, not a G Limiter tho
No it hasn't, you can pull ridiculous amounts of AOA on low fuel, which directly correlates to higher G pull. An AOA limiter would not allow for the variation, even on low fuel. It's nothing more than a myth.
@@SeekerHead The F16 its a unstable desing aircraft, such unstability is controlled by a Fly by Wire system, if the system didnt had a AOA limiter you would be doing cobras all over the place like its a delta wing (cause it can, if you watch the new AI controller F16 that can mimic any other plane for training)
@@RogueBeatsARG IRL yes. Not in the confines of a War Thunder flight model though.
Also the F-16 definitely can’t cobra, it’s not supermaneuverable. Instability =/= supermaneuverability. The “mimicking other planes” thing is only trying to get as close as possible, it does not match 1:1 any other real jet out there unless the F-16 is able to outperform it in every regard. For example, it cannot duplicate a MiG-29 cobra.. because the F-16 can’t.
We’re talking about War Thunder here mate. Unless I explicitly say real life, assume everything on my channel is about the video game.
@@collander7766 i meant the AI controlled F16 prototype they're using can mimick any plane in dogfights, not speed and stuff like that. Agree that maybe can't do a cobra but it can do high AoA (not like a Sukhoi tho) . The point it's that the plane has a AoA limiter IRL so it should have it in game too, cause it's realistic
I think that they should add the aim 9M and Li to the others' top tiers, they wouldnt have as good performance as the r73 but they would be much harder to flare so it they would be more even
how long were you working on this video? gaijin has already said that its a different block and it was an 'error'
As far as I’m aware, they’ve only said that the final block number is subject to change.
Despite this thing being heavier, it should still have performance similar to the F-16A variants. The F-16C is about 2,000 lb heavier dry compared to the block 10 but the new engine gives it about a 5,000 lb increase in dry thrust. So an overall slight increase to TWR. It'll bleed speed slightly quicker but will also gain it back faster. There should be an increase in low speed performance while high speed performance should remain about the same. F-16C should also be able to deploy the leading edge slat thingys at all speeds compared to the F-16A that can only use them at around 380 knots which would improve higher speed control. This is of course if Gaijin doesn't screw over its FM.
it's weird to see that 2 circle configuration works here, because in a missile fight against a HDM + HOB missile (high off boresight), you should not be able to rate fight because of the distance. the more distance, the more the thrust vectoring missile will be able to take you down.
Then, you want to always 1-circle your ennemi and minimize the distance for the missile to miss you. But since in war thunder missile don't have that good of a IRCCM, you can still go for the rate.
I don't know how I'm feeling on this. It's not that realistic in one hand, but in other, that make the game playable. hmmmm...
The point of rate fighting here is to get away from the front hemisphere of his plane. Distance is irrelevant if he can’t get the front half of his plane pointed my direction, he’ll never get his HMD to lock. That’s the goal. Staying tight and staying close is not ideal, I even have a clip of a downward spiral to the deck right on top of each other that results in me dying, due to him getting his front half of his plane pointed my way much easier. A scissor fight is the only way a MiG29 can outfly an F16. If you simply don’t let it compete with you in movement, you don’t even have to worry about “Jamming the WEZ” and all that DCS shenanigans. It’s better to just outfly the plane and exploit its maneuvering weaknesses.
I suspect that it works the way it does in WT due to the flight models being able to let you pull exaggerated Gs, as well as the MiG-29 not being able to pull cobras. Probably won't work very well in the future against aircraft that can pull harder instantaneous turns + have HOBS with higher flare resistance.
Mouse aim in WT is also a pretty big factor, allowing you to get shots that are difficult in reality because they use the rudder perfectly.
Jamming the WEZ unfortunately is probably the only option for most other planes still... and the MiG-29SMT, even with the worse FM, will probably beat them in a 1 circle too. Compression in a nutshell.
@@SeekerHead in war thunder sure, you explained the point and proved it. In real life, 2-circle turn against HMD is just a no go, because of IRCCM those missile have that makes flaring irrelevant most of the time and also the fact that planes just have a much better AoA pull than that, espcially the Mig 29. (Well, the F16 is pretty good actually on that part in the game).
But I think this technic wouldn't be possible if the Mig 29 had a better instantaneous turn, especially if you start to rate at the first turn (which you do not visibly).
No matter what, it's a very interesting video and you sure master the dogfight well.
so is the G limiter/AOA limiter gone, when I tested the Dev server the F-16C block 50 felt the same as the block 15.
though that was on the first day of the Dev server and before the AV-8B was put in sooooooo things could have changed
The problem I see with the r73 is how many are able to be carried by 1 mig 29. The f16 doesn't have a huge amount of flares. This could be troublesome when facing 2 or more 29's
you're dead in you got 2 mig29s on you without missiles, you need to position yourself to hopefully not end up in such positions
@@sadfrog5787 How does 1 position himself in such position though? F-16 will be better without G limiter, but not much better if it's facing 2 migs at once (it'll happen in furballs regardless), so that means that Mig-29's will decapitate whole US teams
to be fair he was talking in a 1v1 scenario of that gamemode that the f16c will be better but in a normal game of 16v16 mig 29 will be the better plane not only does it have the better fox1 it also has the best fox2 and it can carry 4 of r73. Just 4 or 5 smt's on a team and its over
This is exactly what I will cover in my R-73 video. Hands down the biggest issue.
@@dineristov226again, the "G-limiter" like seek said in the video was a myth.
I love how some of the devs said “the only counters to the R-73 are the aim-9x and the IRIS-T” as if that explains why there isn’t a new missile for the US. If it’s so advanced then why not add the aim-9M?
9M has around 6-7 different variants alone...various upgrades. Meanwhile Israel Python 4....from 1993/94.
They really need to buff the SMT's turnrate
In my opinion I don’t think the hmd will do anything for the aim9L because it was never intended to be a dogfight missile and can barely pull it’s overload of 30 g’s I think that they should add later versions of the 9j even if it has a worse g overload it can still pull harder off the deck than most of the nato missiles at toptier
Thank you for saying it
Update is almost here but I’m still trying to figure out who tf the “sons of Attila” are.
the Hungarians
Hungary is coming to the Game. The Huns settled in modern day hungary, thats why.
Atilla the Hun??
the mig 29 still needs a HUGE LOW SPEED turn rate buff...its under preforming so bad at lower speeds and over preforming at higher speeds
Source?
@lewisbush7147 there's a video I remember at a 1989 airshow of a MiG-29 preforming a low speed turn in just 14 seconds WITHOUT using afterburner. I tried that same turn in warthunder and it took me over 17 seconds to conplete, you know warthunder fucked up when a flight model in real life preforms better than a flight model in game.
We need a dedicated and truly independent Air RB EC Mode for longer range weapons. This looks great n all, but the Air RB death match isn’t going to allow for skillful 1v1s like this. Simple.
I mean it’s kinda obvs why, my guess is waiting till next patch so they can drop AMRAAMs, gripen etc. They prob trynna drop all the hype things in the game last patch . Idk tho, maybe I’m wrong 🤷♂️ (MB I mean December patch)
Next patch is a minor one, it’s next month. But yes so I agree the next major patch will be AMRAAMs I’m betting, as I said in my previous AMRAAM/Gripen video
A trustable leaker said they are currently testing the Aim-120 And Aim9-M Vs R77 and R73 so maybe we can get it this year or next year but who knows 🤷🏽♂️
@@SeekerHeadOliva the trustable leaker said that the devs are currently testing the Aim-120 and Aim-9M's vs the R77 and R73 so maybe it can come this year
I absolutely agree, I made an entire video on it. Next patch is not the December patch though.
If we talk about missiles performance, yes, the missiles on the SMT are slightly above anything else at the moment, but they aren't much more modern than the american ones... it's mostly late 70s-early 80s vs. late 80s-early 90s tech, and tbh introducing AIM-9M and AIM-7P wouldn't change things much, only early versions of the AIM-120 would move the meta towards western planes at this point.
Tbh I think what they're trying to do here is making the Mig and F-16 lines a bit "future-proof", adding new armament and gameplay mechanics to the Block 50 and SMT in future updates, although I hope that when that happens they add a Mig-29S and F-16C Block 25/30 to make the progression more natural
Not slightly above, the mig SMTs missiles are the best missiles in the game, no need to try and downplay it, the MIG29 SMT is a jet that was added to Russian service in 2010, when America was using the aim9x and AIM120-C-7 😂 also, the r27er is from 1990. Gaijin casually and usually gimps America and NATO by making them use old Cold War equipment to fight newer more modern soviet junk that can’t fight modern NATO or US equipment, it really sucks they gimp them like that
@@LewisB3217 not really trying to downplay it, the difference between R-27ER and AIM-7M isn't as big as the one between both of those and other nations' missiles you can find at top tier, like the Super 530, non-TEMP Skyflash, Rb 71, etc.
Yes, of course R-27ER is an excellent missile and overall the best Fox-1 in game, but from my personal experience, it's far from unbeatable, an R-27ET fired at you from 10-12 Km is just as dangerous, if not more.
And you can see in this video that in a close dogfight, the R-73 is good but not really unavoidable, it's not really the world-ending weapon some people said it would be. And yeah, I do agree that it's weird and a shame to see how the technology balance works in WT, but it's been like this for ages sadly, we have to learn to live with it. This isn't DCS.
FYI the F-16 is the king of 2 circle fight F18 Mig-21 Mig-29 are 1 circle which means Mig-29 can bring its nose to gun point quickly while F-16 rate fights to get a kill Play DCS you will know all of this 7:36 also what your talking about is jamming the WEZ staying out of his HMD making it impossible to throw a R-73 at you
Everyone angry when f16c dont have arram, but how about when they release mig 29 without r73 , who cry about that lmao
if they 2000s missles the f16 would be op AF, imagine AIM 120C7s and AIM 9Xblk1
The block 50 never had sparrows… the worst mid range missile it ever carried was the Aim-120B. It should get Aim-120C-5 missiles too at some point. Also the block 50 was the version on wich the Aim-9x wich in warthunder would be beyond broken, but I would assume gaijin wouldn’t ever bother to introduce it with thrust vectoring…. Or at all
It’s balancing reasons yea the Mig gets the best missiles but the f16 get the best cas a better dog fighting capability and still some of the best missiles in game the fact is that in my opinion the f16 still seems better
That makes no sense, balance means BALANCE, 50% 50%, that means air loadouts are balanced for fighters, it’s not a strike aircraft in totality
Is it that hard to add better missile’s for the USA gaijin being gaijin
the aim9m and r73 are contemporaries though, r73 enters service in 1984
Aim9m wasn’t out when this was uploaded
@@SeekerHead ok
cant wait for these to fight planes without flares
You get flares stock now. That was part of their road map for the eco changes. Researching flares unlocks the ability to equip chaff.
It has 120 flares now
@@brandon-d10some planes still have very few flares. Case and point, the Kfir C.7 and every 11.3 phantom
@@thatcarguydom266every phantom still have 90 flares, much more than most russian planes
@@noelmoreno5879 30 charges if you take chaff
F-16C with no AMRAAM JASSM HARM or CBU yeah gaijin devs might actually be braindead they should have just given us the f-15A
Just sitting here waiting for the Barak
I doubt the Obama will be any good. So far in the dev server it only gets 9ls
The SMT doesn't get 'modern' weaponry it just gets a very slightly more modern dogfight missile.
MiG-29SMT dogfight missile vs F-16C dogfight missile is early 80s vs mid 70s
MiG-29SMT Fox 1 vs F-16C Fox 1 is early 80s vs early 80s
The R-27E is not a 1990s missile. That's misinformation that's weirdly common on the Russian internet and I'm not sure why. Actual unofficial service entry of the R-27E was ~1985, but this was because the missile was intended for the Su-27, and was shelved until its platform was ready to enter service alongside it. It was phased in essentially alongside the Su-27, and was declared 'in service' when the (actually functional) Su-27's numbers hit IOC around 1990. But the R-27E completed flight tests at the exact same time as the R-27 as they were parallel programs. Shit, even the R-27EA was undergoing flight tests in 1985.
No, the R27ER/ET is 1991. And what I meant by “modern” is that they’re modern relative to their respective air forces. SMTs missiles are still being fielded in the Russian Air Force, the US missiles are not. This shows that their is a disparity between the date of the 2 planes, and the according weaponry they should have.
lmao no.
The r27er came in the 90s while the 7m was in the 80s.
The aim9l came in the mid 70s while the r73 came in the mid 80s.
So yeah the SMT does get more modern weaponry. Much more modern lmao
@@SeekerHead well it's also fake R-73 is not used the modernized R-73's like R-73M R-74 etc. are used
🤓🤓🤓🤓
The SMT would actually use the R-73M & R-77 but in War Thunder its using the base R-73 with nerfed stats and no R-77 at all
The Block 50 F-16C would actually use AIM-9M & AIM-120B but in War Thunder its using AIM-9L & AIM-7M, once again unrealistic outfitted planes.
Why not give both planes their missiles the R-77 and AIM-120 are perfectly balanced check out their stats.
i dont get it. as a us player which f16 should i play for dogfighting? ADF or A? C for CAS, alright!
For dogfight, without a doubt the A. For air to air has a whole, you might want to consider the ADF, or if the better radar is a big deal to you (it isn’t for me) the F16C
That R-73 it bonkers
They should've waited with the F-16C, so annoying to have a 2006 jet with 70s weapons.
Safe to say the missile section of this video aged like milk
so what missiles does it get? and how many? i would play A but the lack of sparrows is a deal breaker for me.
F16AJ
@@SeekerHead I love the part where you answered my question
The F16AJ solves your problems. It has sparrows and has good flight model of the A. If you watch the damn video I literally tell you it’s air to air missiles. I could even type them in this comment if yours wasn’t such a sarcastic rude comment for no reason.